Manga/Dragon Ball

Alrighty. Those people are probably beyond saving anyway. We must abandon them for the greater good of humanity.

Edit: Oh God in Heavens, this is one of the worst pagetoppers I've ever gotten!

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2022 at 7:09:24 AM

She landed on a cliff side far away from the city...

It's not like she flew over an active battle where any stray ki-blast could knock her out of the air...

I don't think a hostage situation is an issue.

The premise of your post I already rejected and pointed out the problem in the same post I made.

So, um, you're agreeing with me? (Because the fight will stay within a few miles and nobody will move pass it, I guess?)

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2022 at 7:15:07 AM

You propose to me a hostage situation.

I say a hostage situation with her specifically is not possible.

She already knows nowhere would be safe (if the androids win), but is not stupid enough to just go directly in the city where the androids will be attacking people.

She is however stupid enough to be a liability in battle by flying over the fight.

Edited by randomness4 on Jan 16th 2022 at 10:19:12 AM

Again. Rejected the premise in the literal same post.

There is no argument to be had here. You're forcing one in a place where we have the same general agreement that it wouldn't be a real concern if she went or stayed away. You're pushing this still (to say there's more reasons it's wrong, for some reason) when there's no reason for it.

I'll be direct: let it go.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2022 at 7:33:36 AM

It's cool, they dropped it.

..."They"?

Ya know, I heard people liked Chris Sabat's more...gravelly voice for Vegeta, and some might say for Piccolo as well.

But I don't know if they'll like this one.

New topic: what does everybody like about the franchise?

I know that there's been plenty of complaints about Dragon Ball in every stage, from the original gag manga to the Z era to the 90s-esque GT Era to the Super of today. Like, loads of complaints and criticisms and sometimes just straight up repetitive NPC dialog (no offense to those who think this applies to them) about the humans, power levels, the "Goku Show", etc.

And I get the whole "you can be a fan and still criticize and complain about a series" thing. I do think there is a line where that bit of common wisdom falls flat and it's clear that the "fan" seem to hold onto the "fan" title as a way to pay the franchise back in full and beyond for wasting your earlier time and enthusiasm and giving you what you consider "garbage".

But I digress. My question is "what makes you come back and stay with this franchise despite all the problems you find with it"?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2022 at 7:41:13 AM

I like some of the techniques.

The Kamehameha is pretty basic, but it's one half of the iconic Ki blast trope that's become vital to a lot of shonen.

The series can obviously be legitimately funny as hell and shock you as well: Roshi's first ever Kamehameha blew me away, and I still remember staring in disbelief when Goku went Oozaru for the first time.

The combination of action and humour can work quite well at times.

I come to Dragon Ball for moments. Even though the story's execution may be weak sometimes, the spectacle is entertaining to me. Ultimately, I think this is one of the great strengths of Shonen in general. They just know how to get the audience pumped with what unfolds.

Aethstetic is a big part of it too. Toriyama did a great job making a world and characters and abilities that look cool.

Edited by diddyknux on Jan 16th 2022 at 9:47:21 AM

The Final Flash is basically just Vegeta charging a big beam but the cinematography/paneling and general theatricality made it one of the greatest moments in the franchise.

Toriyama knows how to angle his moments.

I like the character design and music. I also am here for krillin and by extension his family. Android saga was my first experience with dbz and I thought he was so sweet to care about 18/lazuli. Then I went back and saw earlier material and was impressed with his character development. Him facing the bullies from the temple is such a great moment.

Toriyama is really good at writing action scenes where every individual attack is unique, adds to the overall choreography, and each beat of the battle progresses the story between the two fighters.

Was there ever a moment in a dub where King Kai said Frieza would destroy/cause/be the end of the universe or is this just the Mandela Effect for me

It's hard to pin down an exact episode, but yes, that does happen. It's part of his repeated warnings against fighting Frieza. Kaio's main concern with Goku and Piccolo's intentions isn't that Frieza will kill them. He is concerned about that, but it's not what he freaks out about. His main concern is that upsetting Frieza will provoke him into wreaking untold catastrophe across the universe.

Kaio believes that if they piss Frieza off, he'll destroy Namek, then Earth, and then go on a rampage slaughtering worlds for no reason until he's satisfied. By poking at him, Goku is instigating disaster for an inestimable portion of the universe. Countless billions will pay the price for what the Earthlings are doing here today.

I don't recall off the top of my head if it was Toei or Funimation who messed this up, but at some point during the course of reinterpretation, it got boiled down to "If Goku provokes Frieza, Frieza will blow up the universe."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 17th 2022 at 7:25:16 AM

On the subject of what I like about the franchise: I’m also going to praise the fight scenes. While reading the manga I noticed that the flow of action is a lot more dynamic and easier to follow than other action comics I’ve read (including both Western and Eastern comics here).

I don’t really have the artistic expertise to analyze it more than that but it’s something that popped out at me.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Jan 17th 2022 at 9:35:25 AM

You're not the first person I've heard say that, and I think I agree.

The best summation of Dragon Ball's merits that I've ever heard came from this Girlfriend Reviews video from a person whose first experience with Dragon Ball came from backseating through the Kakarot video game:

"Dragon Ball Z is a lovably preposterous world built by a manga artist who revels more in the pageantry of action than in the poetry of drama."

Toriyama's storytelling isn't as bad as you might expect given that he spends so much time winging it. But his real talent clearly lies with his impressive fight choreography and wacky character designs. He's an artist moreso than a writer, and so he keeps to fairly simple characters and stories that play well to his strengths.

I would argue that Dragon Ball Super really embraces this "moments and characters" philosophy more than the original and Z did.

Edited by diddyknux on Jan 17th 2022 at 8:04:51 AM

Whatever you may think of Toriyama's actual writing, at least he was able to organically connect his stories together. Super really does feel like a bunch of moments put together put together in a way that doesn't feel organic.

Edited by GAP on Jan 17th 2022 at 12:47:58 PM

×2

It had a lot of slice of life episodes which i enjoyed.

Edited by Cortez on Jan 22nd 2022 at 1:34:08 PM

Super does have a handful of slice of life episodes, but unfortunately Super by and large just ends up re-using moments from Z for nostalgia pandering without really understanding why the moments were good in the dirst place :/

when Super does something original and good, it really is good (see:UI Goku vs Kefla, Goku Black, Goku and Frieza teaming up, Goku's moment at Fortuneteller Baba's), but so so often Super's moments are just Z's moments repackaged

Example: Every time Vegeta uses the Final Flash in each consecutive episode.

Someone before mentioned how most of the games seemed incapable of remembering the characters could do more than three things, and Super is like that too.

It sometimes tried new things (to varying levels of success) more often than not it just relied on spamming techniques that were in iconic moments, apparently not realizing that the novelty wears off after the 500th time.