Manga/Dragon Ball

Bulma would win by feeding them sweetrots and making them shit themselves until they surrender.

Yeah that's why I didn't include Vados in my list (I don't actually know the other angel's names to be honest, have just started the TOP) the angels would absolutely destroy everyone else in a fight, probably the rest of the cast in general with if Whis is any indication.

Edited by tms_forever1 on Nov 20th 2018 at 11:05:56 AM

Including dead ones and anime-only ones, but excluding Destroyers and Angels? Kale, Caulifla, West Kaioshin, Zangya, #18, Ribrianne, Cocotte, Pan, Bra, Gine, East Kai, Gine, Selypa, Arale... TOP fodder can fill out the rest.

If you want to include video game only characters there's also Android 21 and Miss Buu.

If you don't include Angels then Helles just destroys everybody.

If you don't include Helles then Kale destroys everything.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 20th 2018 at 8:06:36 AM

Ooh Arale is one I forgot about. I didn't include dead or non canon ones so that's why I didn't include Gine and Zangaya despite thinking of them. I like your list. ^ ^

Edit: Also I had too look up Helles, I didn't know one of the universe's God of Destruction was female.

Edited by tms_forever1 on Nov 20th 2018 at 11:12:20 AM

Isn't Zangya technically stronger than 18?

Before Super at least

Uni cat

Oceanus Shenron.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

Zangya was able to trade blows with post-Cell SS Future Trunks, and her psychic threads could disable post-Cell SS Gohan. So before Super she was the franchise's second strongest female, after the West Kaioshin (who is also anime-exclusive, her sex and appearance aren't confirmed in the manga).

She probably still is stronger than 18, unlike 17 there's no indication 18 got dramatically more powerful.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 20th 2018 at 8:14:59 AM

Oh yeah one of the shadow dragons was female, I forgot about that. I still haven't watched GT yet. It's something I'm vaguely curious about but also don't really feel like putting in the actual effort to watch lol.

Kakarrot is long past the point of making mistakes like that based off anger...and usually doesn't attack recklessly unless he's losing.

It's was mostly arrogance or just bad planning otherwise.

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 20th 2018 at 8:22:59 AM

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

Most of those women don't have much in the way of distinct abilities or fighting styles so it be a very bland tournament all around.

Let's see about that: 18, Videl, Chi-Chi, and Pan have all appeared repeatedly in games, so they're self-explanatory. Kale, Caulifla, and Ribrianne are also fairly obvious, given the amount of screentime they got. Kakunsa has animal stamina and claw attacks. Rozie has her Yachaina Fist. Vikal has wings, I guess? Helles used a bow in the manga. Vados has also been in Xenoverse, so you could use some of that. Monna comes in like a wrecking ball. Caway has ki weapon constructs, and Darkori has magical talismans that can make illusions and attacks. Hop has extending claws. Lilibeu can fly and coat her body with blue fire. Cocotte has pocket dimension barriers. Yurin also has talismans, for mind-control. Ranfan is good at seducing people, I guess? That might have some kind of effect on Kale, Caulifla, Kakunsa, and Vikal.

I think Colonel Violet did some stuff in filler, but I don't know what that is, and we never saw Sorrel fight, so it's more like 2 than most. I'm assuming this hypothetical tournament is taking place in the world of Dragon Ball, maybe in a filler episode or something, so they're not necessarily limited just to attacks they used in the screentime they had.

I was going out to lunch and couldn't finish my point. Now that I'm full of wings, I wasn't calling the writing stupid. The opposite: Goku's actions are stupid (and emotional) and that's the point. He does something rash and gets beaten up for it, and this helps set up the flow of the rest of the arc because it also leads to Kinto'un being destroyed and Goku being separated from his friends.

That makes sense and is well written.

Pushover tried to compare this with the Black arc, which I thought was stupid writing. I disagreed.

Goku Vs Black is stupid because it uses his beatdown of Black to be cool despite it being ineffectual and making the situation worse. That really tramples the attempt to be 'hype' in addition to making rage boosts less special.

It also doesn't really a achieve anything narratively, as Goku goes from losing the fight to... losing the fight. If Goku had the upper hand or was successfully stalling Black and was goaded into flying off the handle so Black could take advantage of that, that would be a cool moment... for Black (whether Goku should be prone to combat fuck ups like that is another issue).

As it stands, it doesn't really change anything, fails as a cool moment for Goku, and is inconsistent with the 'verse mechanics. It fails because it tries to eat its cake and have it too.

Don't forget Towa and Robert. Also all the female avatars from Heroes

Edited by Saiga on Nov 21st 2018 at 2:22:46 AM

Cool moments can still work as cool moments, even if they are undermined and rendered useless. See: the Cell Saga.

Who's Robert?

Also there's Chronoa I guess. Her new form fights. I think.

See, when you don't actually provide an example I have no idea what you're talking about.

But Goku's moment is undermined by things we already knew, and was relying on things that weren't consistent. Both of these deflate any chance it had of being cool, because characters getting mad and going berserk has been played out.

In the manga she immediately seals herself and Mechikabura away when she uses her new form, which is a pity.

Robert is Demigra's secretary. Oh, her name is spelt differently from her pun source (Robert sauce) so she's Roberu or something

Edited by Saiga on Nov 21st 2018 at 2:36:03 AM

Wow it's been so long since I've read the Super manga that I'd forgotten Goku never fought Goku Black in it. That's kinda laughable.

And yeah, Goku's rage was one of the best parts of the arc imo.

(love the little backhand he gives Zamasu there)

Let's see, Gero escaping and waking up 17 and 18 doesn't erase how cool Vegeta killing 19 was, Cell absorbing 17 doesn't erase how cool 17 and Piccolo's battle was, or how cool 16 and Cell's battle was, Vegeta letting Cell absorb 18 doesn't erase how cool Tenshinhan holding back Cell or Vegeta fighting Cell was, and Goku giving Cell a Senzu doesn't erase how cool Goku's fight with Cell was.

Those are just a few that come to mind, I'm sure there are others.

Hell yeah. Satisfying every time.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 20th 2018 at 9:39:13 AM

Again, I don't think it'd add anything. He fights the merged Zamasu who is a bigger deal and the 'real' enemy.

If I were to make Goku fight Black I'd just swap his and Vegeta's roles in the first manga trip, but keep the second trip the same. That'd at least be something different than Vegeta going first and worfing (what a surprise!)

None of those are the same situation though. They moved the plot forward, resulted in changes in the situation, hell the 19 example is particular bad because he stayed dead.

Goku's rage moment is just a small part of his fight with Black, and things return to the same position they were in once it's over.

Edited by Saiga on Nov 21st 2018 at 2:41:59 AM

Goku Black is literally just Zamasu with a higher battle power. Fighting him isn't any more significant than fighting Zamasu himself, which Goku did in the form of Fused Zamasu.

I liked Vegeta being the only one to fight Goku Black and the one to beat him if only because it continued to rub in the point that (ironically) no version of Vegeta can ever lose a fight to any version of Goku.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 20th 2018 at 8:40:57 AM

I think even if it wouldn't really add anything it's just a weird exclusion for how obvious the set up for it is. Like Goku Black even if he is Zamasu, is evil Goku. My first thought upon seeing him in Fighterz was "oh ok I'm guessing he and Goku fight". It's just a weird thing to not use at some point.

Goku Black and Merged Zamasu are different aesthetically. There's significance to Goku fighting his own body. Plus I remember something about Goku's body influencing Zamasu's personality. (not that Goku Black's personality in the manga was all that hot, but still)

Edited by Moth13 on Nov 20th 2018 at 11:44:22 AM

Manga Zamasu is essentially identical to Manga Black from what I remember, it's the anime that tried to draw a distinction between them.

The main difference between anime and manga Black is that Toyotaro keeps focus on an element of Zamasu's personality the anime mostly forgets in the future: he's a punk. An arrogant, violent youth in training with a superiority complex. Why should he be any more collected, when situations crumble around him, than the main timeline Zamasu (in both versions) who tried to murder Goku and then openly threatened Beerus?

Future Zamasu angrily yelling at Black, his own self who had pushed him into criminality and promised him so much only to have no back-up when things went wrong, was representative of this. Zamasu, in general, was an impulsive zealot who bit off way more than he could chew, and by the time he's able to even consider he might have gone down the wrong path, he's way too far in to turn back.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Nov 20th 2018 at 8:53:19 AM

Also, Goku Black is the one who killed Goku's wife and child, not Future Zamasu. There is a very good reason for Goku to hate Goku Black specifically. Goku not raging in the manga and attacking Goku Black is borderline character assassination.

Considering this is Akira Toriyama we're talking about, I wonder if them never fighting in the manga was on purpose.

One Strip! One Strip!

Now you're getting into ridiculous hyperbole which does not help your points.

For starters Buu killed his wife and kids and he didn't go berserk.