Manga/Dragon Ball

Well Vegeta might as well be a Disney Princess◊.

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@ LSBK: As some have stated earlier, Episode 5 suffered the hardest from the rushed 2-month preproduction bulk of Super's early episodes. Key-frames, not the movement-assisting in-between animation, were noticeably off-model during Beerus's first fight against Goku. The Blu-Ray version, for the most part, reedited the scene.

Related to the topic, AnimeAjay did upload his KamehaCon panel talking about Super's animation development from its beginnings to its March finale. Episode 5 specific-talk begins around 14:45 to around the 20-minute mark.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Nov 18th 2018 at 10:42:11 AM

I sure as hell didn't. We'd already had BOG and RF at that stage.

Also Evolution was never in continuity with anything else so what does it matter?

That was back when nostalgia for the Z anime was at its strongest, so it stand to reason some people were drawn into the assumption that Battle of Gods "saved" Dragon Ball form mediocrity.

Well it did get better reception then Evolution so at least it did something.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

It's not very hard to get better reception than Evolution.

I think it would have taken actual effort to be worse than that.

You'd literally have to give 110% effort to be worse than Evolution. The kind of effort that would steal years of your life.

I'm talking massive Sunk Cost Fallacy on this one. Redcloak levels of Sunk Cost Fallacy.

One Strip! One Strip!

or you could be Super

As I said I hope Broly leads to something resembling a Renaissance.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Sorry. We just agreed earlier that Super is not as bad as Evolution.

You lose this time Pope. I shall allow the thread to express their disagreement.

The joke has backfired. Mwa ha ha!

Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 18th 2018 at 10:52:44 AM

One Strip! One Strip!

@X Men Mutant 22

Vegeta as a Disney Princess is just hilarious as a concept, but seriously in some ways he does fit the meme. Especially the fact that he was enslaved and kidnapped. But don't make him sing.

Man, it'd be hilarious if not only Dimps added Evolution character to Heroes, but also gave them what-if forms too.

Trunks: "OH NO! Lord Piccolo Masters powered up with the dark dragonballs! Goku Chatwin, as a time patroller you must protect time before Towa absorbs Roshi Yun-Fat! Wait, why is Mai a shapeshifter?"

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Nov 18th 2018 at 1:11:16 PM

Gavan, Let's get jiggy!

How much does this sum up fights in recent Dragon Ball?

Edited by randomness4 on Nov 19th 2018 at 12:49:44 PM

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

Evolution was better than ROF.

Oh, it absolutely was not. The only thing in the franchise that even comes close to how bad Evolution was is the other two Dragon Ball live-action movies.

I know we give a lot of shit to Super, rightfully so. But at its worst it's nowhere near as bad as Evolution.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

I'd rather watch Evolution than any given arc of the Super anime. At least it is short (under 100 minutes) and has Chow Yun-fat.

That's not a problem...

Value Varies.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

Some parts of Super/RF are definitely worse than evolution.

But yes, Evolution is a poor high school comedy even when you ignore that it's meant to be Dragon Ball.

I mean, it legitimately would be, and I want to see it.

And if Saiga and Kamiccolo aren't joking, then wow you both have shit taste. Saiga especially, because I thought better of you.

With the law of averages, I could maybe buy the worst parts of Super being worse than the best parts of Evolution, but you would have to explain to me what the best parts of Evolution even are, because I legit cant think of any.

By default, the "best" parts of Evolution are the parts in High School, and even then that's more "least worst".

...Like. If we were to workshop this. Hypothetically try to make a Dragon Ball movie work as similar to Evolution as possible. Just as a game or experiment or challenge. Would changing it to a Gohan in High School story work? Because I like Gohan in High School.

Like. If you did a portmanteau or mashup or fusion of the Great Saiyaman Arc and the Cell Games arc. Could that work? As a story in general?

EDIT: ...Although, factoring in length.

I guess Super might end up as bad or worse in a Death by a Thousand Cuts sense?

But Chow Yun-Fat wasn't actually. Great. In the role.

Or rather. He was fun and charismatic in places, and his actual acting performance was good, but everything around him was so bad and more than that so completely at odds with his acting, that rather than uplifting it he actually dragged it down even more?

Edited by unnoun on Nov 19th 2018 at 8:06:01 AM

Yeah, I try to have respect for other people, but my opinion about you two actually went down from that.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 19th 2018 at 6:08:52 AM

Saying someone has shit taste just for saying part of something could be worse than another thing? It's me who should have expected better. If that's meant to be a joke it isn't funny.

For one, pacing. Evolution has regular movie pacing, while Super's pacing is just awful in certain parts and not great at the best of times. That should be really obvious and highlight how silly it is to insist no aspect of Evolution could be considered better than Super.

Evolution also doesn't have the plot holes and continuity errors of Super, because it's not passing itself off as being in continuity with anything. It doesn't have any lasting impact on the original story or its characters, or on the franchise. Super does, and when Super is as bad as it is, that just exacerbates its problems.

Also, saying that some parts of Super or RF are worse than Evolution is not saying a single positive thing about Evolution. I have nothing good to say about Evolution, but I'm not going to ignore Super's own separate flaws.

& That's a pretty poor attitude to take.

Edited by Saiga on Nov 19th 2018 at 11:09:56 PM

Evolution has continuity errors with itself.

And we didn't know Evolution would have no lasting impact at the time.

Edited by unnoun on Nov 19th 2018 at 8:10:29 AM

Such as?

It should have been screamingly obvious that it wouldn't. It was never going to catch on, and DB wasn't really doing anything else at the time. It can't kill a franchise that was essentially dead, and it sure as hell wasn't going to revive it with all the bad publicity going around.

Edited by Saiga on Nov 19th 2018 at 11:13:50 PM

Super's pacing is fine, it's better than the original Z anime's and it's about on par with Kai's. Most fights in Super start and end in the span of one episode, while in the original Z anime they usually took 2 or more episodes per fight.

Being better than the Z anime is not an accomplishment. It's also not always true, the re-tellings had a horrible pace (particularly BOG) especially given that they were adaptations of very short movies.

The TOP arc is also poorly paced, even though the fights are shorter than Z they cram so many fights between the major plot points which has a similar effect. Pacing is so much more than just the flow of individual fights.

The pacing issues are different - sequences aren't stretched out as much - but they cram so many damn sequences in between plot points that the overall pacing is still bad.

And it's definitely worse than Kai's, which still was poorly paced (especially the Boo arc).

There were very few episodes in the Tournament of Power that weren't plot-essential in some aspect. Whether they focused on the elimination of a U7 teammate, the elimination of a major fighter in one of the other universes, the erasure of a universe, or focusing on one of the really big battles of the tournament, pretty much all of them were important to the plot, even the two episodes that didn't have the highest quality.

Overall, Super has pretty standard, even good, pacing for a long-form shonen anime, my dude.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 19th 2018 at 6:41:52 AM