German Politics Thread

Do me a favor and don't call me that.

I always had the impression that Westerwelle pretty much was the FDP, since he was the chief for such a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if they lost support alone from him leaving the position, no matter how well or bad Rösler does.

A certain part of me suspects that some people could have some rather... unsavory reasons for disliking Rösler.

edited 28th Mar '12 6:32:50 AM by Nyarly

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.

Sorry.

No, Germans aren't that healthy. We have two million obese children, and were the fattest European country in 2007. Plus, we got quite a lot of smokers.

I don't have a lot of time at hand right now, but a quick (and nice, kudos at whowever did it) overview of the different states can be found The Sixteen Lands Of Deutschland.

Thanks. The Bielefield conspiracy was amusing to read about.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

In truth, the states are not that different. That is, by states I mean the political build up, administrative structures and so on; differences in culture/society by region is of course something else. In fact, Germany is pretty cryptocentralist: The states don't have that many powers, and with the powers they do are coordinated to a very large extent, so that it all ends up without any major variations anyway. There is a huge bunch of issues where the federal and state level overlap, and funding for projects in those is often so complicatedly intertwined that you couldn't really separate the levels anymore. OTOH, the states, collectively, have much power on the federal level via the Bundesrat and via their minister conferences where they do coordinate their authorities. Thus, in a way, I'd call them a second central government, and Germany hence cryptocentralist...

So, yes, personally I'd argue for more federalism, and even for more states. Free Franconia! Also, give us back our territories (West Nassovia and Rhine Hesse), Rhineland-Palatinate!

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i don't dislike rösler..i just consider him a joke as politician and doomed to captain a sinking ship. Call it schadenfreude.

As for the part of the power of the states...Education is a state issue, wich makes an UNHOLY mess most of the time if you view it from the federal viewpoint

edited 28th Mar '12 10:20:44 AM by 3of4

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Eh, honestly, is there any real difference between Westerwelle and Rösler anyway? I mean, any difference at all? It seems to be the exact same shitty neoliberalist ideology. So it's not an issue of personnel. The entire FDP has to go. Pity for people like Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger... no, wait actually, just a pity for her, not like there are any other people like her left in the party. Which is the problem brought to a point, no left liberal wing anymore, only neoliberalists.

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Brüderle has some style, too.

And i would laugh at Westerwelle just as hard.

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Education is a good example of what I mean. Yes, it's a state issue, but de facto it's all coordinated in the Kultusministerkonferenz anyway, and there is so much federal money sunk into it - the consequence is that education de facto is centrally coordinated, anyway, with existing but small differences between the states.

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Nah, its a "too many cooks" situation. But thats not the fault of the system, but state politicians pumping their political ego...

Edit: typing on pad at the bus station does not work well...

edited 28th Mar '12 11:40:37 AM by 3of4

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I'm not saying anything about faults. My point is that it's federal in name only; de facto it's rather centralist.

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I heartily second that statement. (There was a nice blog a few days ago about Germany's lack of a real liberals these.)

Else, get your dirty hands of Rhine-Hesse and keep on welcoming your Bavarian overlords. (Kidding. The one time I was in Würzburg, it was one of the coziest 'just-like-home'-places I'd ever been to.)

edited 29th Mar '12 2:58:58 AM by kurushio

Bavarian Overlords? Hope they don't forget their passport next time they leave their free state and visit germany :P

edited 29th Mar '12 12:32:58 AM by 3of4

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Well, not my Bavarian overlords, I just have sympathy for them I'm of the striped lions, and eventually we will reclaim what is ours Making Mainz state capital, too, insult to injury...

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hey, i'm for making Frankfurt am Main the Federal Capital while we're at it. Who needs that annoying former prussian city with all those windbags anyway?

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One vote in 1949. One damn vote... *grumbles*

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Frankfurt as capital? We might as well have kept Bonn. (I'd be fine with Mainz, though. I was born there.)

Any opinions on how the fact that the FDP just prevented the Schlecker bailout? Personally, I think they just put the final nail in their coffin.

edited 29th Mar '12 11:09:31 AM by kurushio

And why not Frankfurt? The place were the German Emperors (the real deal, the Holy Roman Emperors, not those Hohenzollern imposters) were elected and crowned, the place of the first democratic German parliament - so much history, I think Frankfurt would have a better claim than Berlin. Plus, very centrally located with good infrastructure and everything, by the most cosmopolitan city in Germany, and certainly not as secluded from the realities of life as Bonn was.

Whereas Mainz can base a claim on... uh, it was the home of the Archbishop of Mainz, Prince-Elector and Archchancellor for Germany? Meh, something, but rather weak.

The FPD is desperate right now to build up an coherent profile again by any means... it might even work. After all, the best they can hope for now is a niche electorate, and maybe they'll get 5% of people who are ideologically opposed to any state involvement at all... Sure it will make them even more hated in the wider population, but the wider population would never vote for them anyway, so they don't care.

edited 29th Mar '12 11:24:27 AM by Octo

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What Octo said about Frankfurt.

and can the FDP possibly shoot themselves more in the foot o.O?

edited 29th Mar '12 11:29:23 AM by 3of4

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Don't get me wrong - joking and local patriotism aside, I think Frankfurt would have made a great capital of West Germany, far better than Bonn.

But IMO, Berlin is by far the more representative symbol of a unified Germany. In the end, most important historic events and impulses after 1849 happened there - good ones and bad ones. I don't doubt Frankfurt's infrastuctural and economical importance, but you don't decide on your capital by the size of the airport and the number of banks. Or the crime rate.

And honestly, if we start going by former historical importance, Trier (oldest city!) and Aachen (Charlemagne! Barbarossa! Baudolino!) representatives will start to rise their heads soon.

As for its cosmopolitan nature, Frankfurt is not any more cosmopolitan than Berlin, Hamburg, Munich or Cologne.(In 6 of the 9 big 'world city ranking' studies, Berlin is ahead of Frankfurt.)

But yeah, I can see how we all identify as Germans first, as shown by our distinct lack of regional bashing. Rest assured, I don't even like Berlin that much. I just live here.

edited 30th Mar '12 6:19:52 AM by kurushio

Really? I've always seen Frankfurt listed as most cosmopolitan. As most international city, followed by Düsseldorf of all places...

And bah, Berlin only got its place because of Prussia, and screw Prussia. And yes, Aachen and Nuremberg would also have claims, the three cities mentioned in the Golden Bull*

. But of those, Frankfurt without doubt was foremost. Plus, as I've said, 1848. Berlin stands for the Prussian, authoritarian tradition, Frankfurt for both the democratic (and besides that, also the Holy Roman) tradition. That is something the new Federal Republic should have based itself on, instead of silly resistance myths like Stauffenberg. Prussia, the old elites*

The one single good thing the Soviet occupation did: Completely eliminating the junkers as a class

, the military traditions, it should all have been completely disgraced. But no...

And hey, I've much regional identity. I just happen to have even more German identity. To compensate, no European identity. Fuck Europe. In fact, so to say, the regional identity is a counter to that: Focusing on the small levels instead of the big levels...

edited 30th Mar '12 10:21:01 AM by Octo

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Arguing for Frankfurt as capital of Germany on well-founded historical grounds is all well and good, but having the rest of the world associating your capital with a sausage - and international German stereotypes being what they are - may not be the wisest move.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

Eh, I'm not so sure people even associate the sausages with Frankfurt. American exchange students we had over here always just referred to them as "the hot dog sausages"

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To be the voice of pure clinical reason, moving a capital costs money.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

Yet we did it! My complain is that it was moved in the wrong city! *g*

edited 30th Mar '12 2:53:28 PM by 3of4

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Well better Berlin than Bonn. Bonn was just too small - too secluded from the realities of life and too convenient for politicians to make politics away from the public...

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