Baldur's Gate

@Caissas Death Angel, post 118.

Not quite. Yeah, the dialogue are generic for most part. However, it does make a few assumptions. The game clearly acts as if you have had Dynaheir, Minsc and Boo on your party, at last for a while (and certainly acts as if you met them, which is not required, I believe). It probably acts as if Jaheira and Khalid were in your party at some point as well, but I am not sure. You are obliged to at last talk with them anyway. More important, the game acts as if you saved Viconia which, again, it is not forced originally (I think).

I am not sure how returning characters react to Sarevok in the expansion, however. I am willing to bet at last Imoen acts as if she knows him personally, but I am just guessing.

edited 24th Sep '11 5:56:36 PM by Heatth

Well yes, I didn't deny that. The canon party is indeed Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir (pretty sure Bioware confirmed that one). Hell, the plot of the second game to some extent (the start anyway) revolves around that combination. But the dialogue choices still generally allow for multiple possibilites, including pointing out the contradictions involved with possible outcomes to your meeting with them or not in the first game. I think that extends to telling Viconia that you didn't save her and that she's making it up, though I can't recall for sure.

Drizzt even lampshades it, and will actually, in the right circumstances, attack as soon as he runs into you.

edited 24th Sep '11 6:08:41 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

Oh, yeah, you are right. I did not want to disagree with that. I misunderstood you were saying the game did not imply at last these five were once in your party (I am not sure about Imoen, actually, as most of references to common past can easily be suffering to before the first game start). I also don't remember much about Viconia, so I will conceded the point.

Speaking on canon decisions, what about the returning characters' classes? Do they retain their level? What about Imoen?

Only your character is imported, nothing else.

Where Yoshimo waits if you dismiss him?

The main tavern (forgot the name). Where you find Nalia and where half of your party waits. Asuming he is alive, of course. If you go to Spellhold without him, he will be that when you come back.

I see.

Hmm, RL Nice, if you find consistence between games important, you may want to dual class Imoen to mage latter on.

edited 25th Sep '11 1:27:45 AM by Heatth

About Yoshimo: you can't save him either way, since he's dead when you return. I think you learn of his betrayal and he's already dead when you get back to Athkatla. His Geas subquest can't be done unless you had him in your party before then, so it's assumed you will and will take Imoen in his place. He is in the tavern though before you leave for Spellhold.

Personally I don't bother, purely because I don't like operating without a thief for as long as it takes to be prepared for Chapters 4 and 5, and I hate to waste experience.

edited 25th Sep '11 4:12:41 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

About Yoshimo: You don't learn about his betrayal if you leave him behind, if I am not mistaken. He just drop dead. It was what happened to me at my first play. I got kinda confused. I would take him to the stronghold. Better then take someone else there and having to leave him behind, if you do so, this character never come back, I think. "Wasted" experience is not much of a issue, is it? If I remember well, the party members gain it with you even when outside the party.

Nope, they don't, only characters who are with the party gain experience. And giving experience to a character who dies in Spellhold is a definite waste to me, since I could be carrying another character - i.e. Jan - who could get the experience instead. Or, I don't have a 6th character, but that denies me a thief in the entire early part of the game.

I always take Yoshimo because of how he figures into the plot. Also, if you want Imoen in your party, his death conveniently frees up a spot. I don't really care about losing a bit of experience, since this isn't a game where you need to do any real powergaming or min/maxing... unless you play with a tactics mod, I guess.

edited 25th Sep '11 6:49:15 AM by Talby

Really? Hmmm, but they are always with the same amount of xp as you when you recruits them, right? I don't remember having anyone blatantly underleved, and I change my party quite a bit (if only to do each one's specific missions).

I agree with that. I missed it during my first time and felt really bad about it. Also, without the expansion you are likely to max up your level anyway.

Certainly, on my next playthrough I am going to try and keep Imoen along, for plot reasons. I'm a good enough player that I can probably handle Chapter 5 with a weaker party. I'd need to try and find a way to get the money while doing a minimum of the major quests early though, since I really prefer a consistent party. As long as I can get the Holy Avenger for Keldorn I should be fine, which I can do with Chromatic Doom and Save Scumming.

A challenge is always good!

Speaking on that, how does the game works around with Imoen being two chapters away? I really don't remember she being underleved, but you say who leaves your party don't gain experience. What happens to her?

Hmm...not sure, actually! I've never actually played through keeping her.

Heh, while I can't even think on playing through without her. She is way too much integrated into the story to just cast her away.

edited 25th Sep '11 11:05:01 AM by Heatth

Re: Yoshimo - I used to avoid using him for the same reason of not wanting to waste experience, but it turns out if you bring him along to Spellhold and end up killing him after he betrays you, you get a quest to take his heart with you and burn it at a temple to release his soul from the geas, which grants 100,000 exp on completion. That should make up most of the exp you "lost" by having him in your party. It's at least worth the frustration you'll save by not having to go without a trapfinder/lockpicker for the first part of the game.

Re: Imoen - She doesn't gain any exp between the time she's arrested and the time you rescue her, so she will be underleveled when you get her back. By exactly how much will depend on how much sidequesting you did before going to Spellhold. Due to the exponentially steepening exp curve to level, however, she'll eventually be almost as powerful as your other characters despite likely having hundreds of thousands less exp than them.

edited 25th Sep '11 10:57:14 AM by arimnaes

Hmm, that's a good point, you do get a lot. Perhaps I've been thinking about it in terms of my doing almost everything prior to Spellhold before I go there, but keeping Yoshimo for the bear minimum would see me right, while still allowing me Imoen and all the plot that goes with her. Though Imoen is a decidedly sub-par thief, since she's dual classed so can't rise anymore...

edited 25th Sep '11 1:16:37 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

Ah, yes, I often forget that Imoen canonically dual-classes to mage between games. The last couple times I've played, I've used a mod that puts BG 1, BG 2, and Throne of Bhaal end-to-end, so she remains a pure thief unless you dual class her yourself.

Kind of creates a Plot Hole, though, in that she still somehow casts spells at Irenicus and gets hauled off to the mage-only prison as a result.

Gee, Anemonen is not happy because im a good person,....

I searched on Google to know about Imoen's 'problem':She does gain level while she is always. The amount of experience she has is apparently based on the average level of your party, including multi/dual class (including Nalia's stupid 4 levels on Thief). A trick would be ditching a low leveled party member just before talking with Imoen to raise the average level and then making them rejoin soon afterward.

Searching that was harder then it should. No decent wiki page for Baldurs Gate, as it seems, and the FAQs on Game Faqs surprisingly have no information about that matter, for what I could observe searching quickly.

PS: Heh, quite amusing.

PPS:Are you sure about Imoen? Some folks in another forum thinks otherwise.

edited 25th Sep '11 11:06:22 AM by Heatth

I'm not completely sure, no. If she scales, though, it's definitely only to a certain point, because I usually do a huge number of sidequests, enough for the party to hit level 14 or so on average, before going to Spellhold, and I've never seen her higher than about level 11 upon re-entering the party. Also, the most recent time I played through the game, it didn't look to me like her actual exp total had changed from the end of Irenicus' Dungeon.

edited 25th Sep '11 11:10:57 AM by arimnaes

Well, I am not sure if there is a limit (as I said, it was hard to find this information), but were you using many characters with multi class? They would probably lower your average level, therefore hurting the amount of exp Imoen gets. As for me, it have been years since I last played, but I always use Imoen and I don't remember she being much behind everyone else.

PS:Searched a bit more and discovered that There is a few 'different' Imoens with fixed levels of mage. These levels would be 8, 11, 13 and maybe 10. Which Imoen you is based in... something (average party level I guess?) but most probably not a level above your PC. Therefore, depending of the circunstances, she might be either some levels behind or actually close to you.

edited 25th Sep '11 11:36:50 AM by Heatth

I'd assume She's at an average level for your party to be honest. The same might be true of the other party members too; but I'm not sure, since that would be a really easy way to cheat having to raise everyone (just raise a couple of people and then get everyone else at already high levels). The potential difference with Imoen is that she actually has been in your party before, and you can't have her after the Dungeon until Spellhold, whereas with the others you can moreoreless pick and choose unless you make stupid dialogue choices (Jaheira, incidentally, you can only kick out once and even then it's only before you do the Harper subquest chain; after that, she leaves forever.

Man, I need to hurry up and finish the games so I can highlight the spoiler texts. It's so tempting.

In all honesty, the spoilers aren't...well okay, it's a mixture of one huge spoiler (THE big twist of the first half the of the second game) and other than that just minor stuff relating to the game's treatment of one character.

So best to resist the temptation for now, I think, you'll be kicking yourself if you find out what we're talking about before you should.