Marvel Cinematic Universe

Are you assuming he’d be thrown at superluminal speeds? It’s going to take a lot of time dying in space before he gets to die in the sun

Okay, I'll concede. When you put it like that, it does make us Disney followers sound f*cking crazy.

But.

In our defense, Sony's not exactly squeaky clean themselves.

For starters, the downward box office trend was only because they kept messing with Spider-Man 3. Amazing Spider-Man 1 might have been fine-ish, but when they were trying to kickstart their shared universe with Amazing Spider-Man 2, Sony made the rookie errors of A) fixating on setting up sequels and spin-offs when they should've concentrated on the movie they were making right now and B) putting the kibosh on stuff that was working great (*wistfully looks over Emma Stone's Gwen Stacy's grave*).

When Spidey was announced to appear in Civil War, we were ecstatic. Nothing like the Marvel/Sony deal had been done before.

Meanwhile Venom, something Sony made all by themselves, is hard evidence that they didn't learn a single thing from ASM 2. Generic villain, boring everything, building up to sequels when you still have the one movie going, and the only good thing from there was Tom Hardy.

But according to Sony logic: everyone saying "it was eh" + $800 million+ at the box office = success.

Except that shouldn't be true. MCU films are a success because they score big bucks and big critical ratings. Audiences like Venom's will eventually wise up about the quality and decide to just leave it.

So of course we were going to go apesh*t over the possibility that Spidey would leave the MCU. Especially after we thought a third movie would be inevitable when FFH got over a billion.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:37:28 AM

Until a new Big Bad comes along, I can't really think of anyone that I want to die.

Apparently Emma Stone wanted to do the Death of Gwen Stacy bit.

“Essentially the argument is that Spider-Man kills her by accident. So the person she loves is the person who kills her, which is the most horrifying thing. Apparently people unsubscribed to the comic book when that happened because they were just so flipped-out over it. But, of course, I want to stay true to that.”

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:45:02 AM

And as a follow up to my last post, Sony is still in a rut with underperforming franchise-starting or restarting movies like Ghostbusters (2016), MIB: International, and Brightburn. The only one that got out alright was Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle, but we don't have a clue how the sequel will turn out.

And getting back to Venom's hiccups, there were notes of Tom Hardy butting heads with the director. And the whole movie was given a rushed treatment because Sony's top priority was meeting their own deadline which is a bad idea to do with your first movie.

Oh. Still though, ASM 2 had a lot of problems and they were planning to bring her back via cloning, so...

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:51:12 AM

It did and shoving that death in exacerbated all of the problems.

Meh. If this means a Spider-Man whose ties to Iron Man are downplayed, then I'm for it, by now. Got sick of that by the end of Homecoming(I would still consider it one of the better entries).

Maybe your argument is valid, but are you willing to see Uncle Ben die again?

Because if Sony does reboot Spidey (Feige forbid), they're almost definitely going to show Ben die again.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 11:58:31 AM

They already died Gwen Stancy dies plot in one of the movies aleady.I'm not sure if they should revisit it again

Something I liked about Peter's intro in Civil War and also about Spectacular Spider-Man is that we didn't have to run through the origin again.

It was just assumed that after all this time the audience knows Uncle Ben dead. Spectacular even saved the flashback for a really powerful battle at the center of the mind bit.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:08:08 PM

Whatever Marvel ends up doing with the Fantastic Four on film, I hope they continue the trend of Sue being a scientist in her own right.

x4 Doesn't bother me.

Unlike so many others I have no issues with an origin story.

As much as I enjoyed MCU Spidey so far and want things to continue, I still have issues with their implementation and as a result I'm apathetic to this debacle.

The perfect Live Action Spider-Man still eludes me.

Edited by MrSeyker on Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:18:23 AM

"The perfect live-action Spider-Man is an elusive creature. As you can see, we have been following his trail for days and yet we've seen nothing of him so far. The webbing — is it organic? Or did he make it himself? And what about the quips that we've been hearing in the distance? Are they too much or not enough? Only time will tell if we find the perfect live-action Spider-Man. Time and — oh look, here comes an Uncle Ben, let's see how he dies!"

So.

I might actually end up hating both sides if what the Washington Post says it's true.

Namely how apparently it's Disney choosing to walk away.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:24:42 PM

The overall outcry isn't "Disney Good! Sony Evil!" it's "Oh no we FINALLY got Spiderman into the hands of people who know how to use and develop the character and now the same people who e-ffed him up in the first place want him back!"

Its like I said upthread, Marvel has something Sony does not, Public Confidence. The General Public knows Marvel puts out quality films that are worth a full ticket price on opening weekend, Sony DOES NOT have that kind of confidence, people will wait for a week or so for feedback before plopping down a ticket and it won't be first weekend. ITSV was an EXCEPTION not the rule.

So even IF the stars align, Sony somehow retained all the creative staff that made Homecoming and FFS all the stars and were able to seamlessly remove all the MCU elements and made a film on par with the previous films there is a very high risk that it will NOT be the billion dollar hit FFH was JUST due to the Public Confidence.

Its a high risk that Sony doesn't seem to have realized yet.

x3

That frickinh killed me, my friend.

So you're saying not to take Washington Post as gospel yet? Because everything's too much and I just want Spidey to stay in the MCU.

Actually yeah, that sounds about right.

Yeah, this was a good one.

I could see Sony desperately stunt casting to get interest in a reboot ("Betty White IS Aunt May!")

Edited by J79 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:45:14 AM

Sony would have to do something pretty major to convince me to watch any new Spider-Man film they make. So that's one customer lost.

And you have kids, right? So that's probably more than one customer lost.

Marvel did Spider-Man best. No other live-action Spider-Man has been as good as the MCU Spider-Man. Far From Home is my favorite Spider-Man movie, even more so than Spiderverse. The people working in the live-action section of Sony just don't understand the character.

I remember watching the first Spider-Man with Tobey Maguire in theaters and enjoying it. Watched the second one in theaters as well, enjoyed it but slightly less than the first. Never got around to watching the third one. And I didn't even bother watching the reboot, because why the hell are they rebooting it already?

MCU Spidey on the other hand, I watched every single one in theaters and enjoyed the hell out of them. There's a big difference there.

Edited by danime91 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:09:31 AM

If Sony took this opportunity to make a live-action Spider-Girl or Spider-Man 2099 movie, that could be interesting. They have free reign to depict Peter however they wanted, but he wouldn't be the focal point of the story.

Yeah, the whole departure would still leave a sour taste in the mouth, but this could take some opportunities the MCU probably wouldn't take. I doubt we'll get a look at the 2099 stuff because the Marvel wouldn't want to nail the continuity down like that. Sony wouldn't care, and we could get a cool cyperpunk superhero film. And we'd probably wait a couple of decades if we wanted the MCU to do a Spider-Girl movie.

I'm probably a bit too optimistic, but if Sony was smart, this would be a good way to earn back some audience goodwill. So they'll probably won't do it.

That was my feeling as well, the first Spiderman was truly Lighting in the Bottle (and premiered on my BIRTHDAY) they have never been able to duplicate that since, then I read up on the Executive Meddling they did to the Cast and Crew for the 2nd and 3rd films which lead to a Troubled (and RUSHED IIRC) Production and the cast/crew walking post the 3rd film due to being FED UP with Sony. Hence the reboot where they couldn't keep the cast for even three films before again, people walked.

Edited by ShadowWingLG on Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:11:18 PM