The General US Politics Thread

Personally, I wouldn't say I hate Bernie, but I was never enamored with him. I wasn't involved in politics at the time of the 2016 primaries, so I didn't have much of an opinion on Bernie aside from "he's the guy who came 2nd in the 2016 primaries". Since then, I've formed my own opinion based on what he's done and said since then, and what I've heard and seen of him prior to that point, and I wouldn't say it's a favorable opinion.

Dude's heart is in the right place, but he seems woefully naive and uninformed about the root causes of racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry that don't relate to capitalism. He also has a habit of saying ignorant and inflammatory remarks at completely inappropriate times, like when he made a speech on MLK day about how the Democrat party sucks, and the public was just blind to how much they sucked by Obama being a "charismatic candidate".

Say what you will about Obama, but he's the first black President, and it's incredibly disrespectful to imply that he was just a smokescreen for the Democrats on MLK day, of all days! Not to mention the exact phrasing: "charismatic" is one of the classic "racist white guy who wants to complement a black guy but can't do it without implying other black people are lesser" adjectives, right next to "literate" and "eloquent", and "candidate" is only giving him credit for how he performed before becoming president, not during the 8 years he was president. It's delegitimizing the achievement that is being the first black president, again, on MLK day, of all days.

It's stuff like that that really sours my opinion on Bernie Sanders, it seems like he wants to help people, but he needs a reality check. He's not really as radical as he thinks he is, and he has a lot of room for improvement in many areas, but his ego seems unwilling to accept any criticism or admit to any faults, which has made him stagnate. One of his big points of pride is that he's been pushing the same things for decades, but it seems like doing that has set him so hard in his ways that he's unwilling to grow and change with the times, utterly convinced that he's completely right and everyone else would be better off if they just did what he said.

So your new argument is that the media has been treating him fairly since the 2016 election and then in December 2019 suddenly decided to destroy him? Do you have literally any evidence to back up that claim, or just a feeling?

A study over that kind of time period allows us to draw a statistically significant conclusion. Saying it’s not valid because it’s two months out of date is like saying you don’t believe your house is there any more because you haven’t seen it since this morning.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:19:02 AM

To be fair, the image of the media overlords bringing out the kill switch is pretty funny.

Things change RADICALLY as the primaries heat up. And there have been a few incidents (around the time he criticized Jeff Bezos Bezos owned papers released 15 anti bernie stories in 14 hours.) Thehill also publishes articles from former Hillary aides that have outright lied (they claimed that more hillary supporters voted for obama than bernie sanders supported for hillary....when the opposite happened. 25% of all Hillary supporters refused to vote for Obama while 87% of all Sanders supporters voted for Hillary.) It's nice to know the coverage wasn't as bad as I thought but yeah. There HAVE been a few cases of media outlets lying.

See that's a fair assessment of the man's strengths and weaknesses. All the same he and Warren are the best candidates for an election.

At the same time he did support the violence against women act and he has made SOME progress regarding POC. Biden's also had his fair share of racist gaffes (he spoke positively of Senator Eastland who was a MASSIVE racist, and he also opposed busing).

Edited by LordYAM on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:26:01 AM

Uh, no. First of all, as far as a study is concerned two months is current. Broad trends across the entire media landscape just don’t change that fast. Second, you’re really offering one or two examples of bad coverage as a rebuttal to a study examining thousands of articles over multiple years?

Like I said on the previous page, showing facts to a conspiracy theorist just hardens their belief. You’re doubling down now because your worldview is being challenged, and the problem is your argument is based on that worldview and not in fact.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:32:34 AM

Anyway with Booker out things are going to shrink and Iowa is already looking close. Even in the ones where Biden's leading it's a pretty short lead

I accepted Pushover's assessment. I'm not blind to the guys flaws. And I also said it was nice to know that things weren't as bad as I thought. It's still a lot to take in and there ARE still cases, whether you want to admit it or not, where people have made stuff up. I'll concede that the media coverage wasn't as bad as I thought

I HAVE met at least one centrist dem who said she'd refuse to vote if Bernie won the nomination as well. 25% of all Hillary supporters refused to vote for Obama.....while 87% of all Sanders supporters voted for Hillary (which kinda shoots down the idea that they're all Bernie or Busters). So it's entirely fair to assume that if Sanders DOES win some Centrists will refuse to vote as a fuck you.

Edited by LordYAM on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:35:24 AM

To shift the conversation elsewhere, r/Taiwan has a thread about which American politicians have congratulated the incumbent pro-US president Tsai Ing-wen for her recent electoral victory.

Something that is rather worrisome is that the vast majority are Republicans or conservative Democrats. Omar, Biden, Coons, Markey, Cox, and Joaquin Castro (Julian’s brother) are the only Democrat on the list so far.

This is evidence of the bizarre relationship that the GOP has with Taiwan. Despite possessing things that the party opposes in the United States (female president, universal healthcare, government welfare networks, and gay marriage), Republicans have consistently advocated for greater support for Taiwan while the Democrats have lagged behind.

Democrats have consistently been less openly supportive of Taiwan, to the point where the Obama administration arguably swayed the 2012 election in favor of KMT president Ma Ying-jeou by criticizing Tsai as being too provocative towards China.

Has anyone here been on r/politics?

Sure, but you can say the same about literally any candidate in the field.

There is no special bias in the media against Sanders. End of story.

Edited by archonspeaks on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:36:53 AM

Huh, Nancy Pelosi apparently did so too. Knew there was a reason I liked her.

Eh. She's a skilled political operator and she did make the right call by waiting until the Ukraine thing came up to go after Donald. But her ideas are stale and she's overly cautious at a time the nation needs new ideas and leadership. Her time is done and it would be better if she retires in 2022.

Same problem with Biden. He wants to go back to an age of civility that never really existed and pretend that certain things that have come out (namely HOW bigoted and shitty a lot of conservatives are) can just be forgotten. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/americas-goodly-veneer-was-lie/601105/

Edited by LordYAM on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:42:44 AM

See, this is part of it. Someone complements Pelosi for something minor, and you immediately jump to "she should be removed and replaced because she's outdated". Chill. Not everything needs to be brought back to your "moderates vs progressives" war that totally isn't a thing.

I said she should stick around till 2022. I also said she made the right call waiting until the Ukraine scandal hit to go after Trump for impeachment.

The "I knew there was a reason I liked her" implies that M84 is a pelosi fan, and well......that's naive.

Edited by LordYAM on Jan 13th 2020 at 10:48:47 AM

Seriously, must you? We're trying to move on from this and you're insistent on dragging us back. And now you're calling me naive on top of that.

Edited by M84 on Jan 14th 2020 at 2:50:09 AM

Okay, 1: you just said that she's a skilled political operator, like it or not, she's a valuable ally and has been a major part of getting us through these last few years, and 2: M84 has stated that they are more moderate, it's not "naive", it's just having different preferences.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 13th 2020 at 11:50:11 AM

For now.

And at this stage in the game supporting centrist policies IS naive.

You are just hellbent on picking a fight here, aren't you? Do you have anything to actually say about Taiwan and the makeup of those who endorsed the recent win or not?

Edited by M84 on Jan 14th 2020 at 2:54:07 AM

I think republican support of Taiwan is because China hates them. It’s like how they support Israel even though Israel also has universal health care..

The Taiwan thing doesn’t seem like it’s the right of the party, Pelosi is actually on the center left of the party and so is Biden.

What you’re seeing is the Dems with the biggest picture focus, Biden is rather foreign policy focused as a candidate and Pelosi has been in the game for a while.

People are reading way to much into it, most of the mid-level leftist candidates either don’t pay attention to foreign policy and/or are busy campaigning right now.

I’m sure that if Warren, Harris, Booker or similar were in prominent foreign policy positions they’d also send a congratulations.

Perhaps most glaringly, Andrew Yang - an actual Taiwanese-American - has yet to comment on Tsai's reelection.

Coupled with his slow response to the Hong Kong protests when non-Asian rivals like Biden and Warren had already voiced support for the protests before him, I'm beginning to suspect that Yang may be descended from the mainland Chinese who fled to Taiwan with the defeated Nationalists, who generally have inherited a closer identity with the mainland and thus rally around the Kuomintang (KMT) party that opposes Tsai's Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) than caters to the native islanders seeking separate identities from China.

I think it's a little weird to associate him with a political position purely from his ancestry. He was born in America and grew up here. He formed his political positions while growing up in America.

While I'm sure his parents have positions and he's talked to them about politics, it's unlikely that he was born brainwashed with any particular Taiwanese party platforms in his head.

Edited by Clarste on Jan 14th 2020 at 12:56:13 PM

Bernie may be tone deaf on certain things but he's actually made racial justice an issue in his voting for decades.

Jerk with a Heart of Gold is the trope I'd most associate with Bernie.

He's an angry old man ranting on a soapbox who occasionally makes some good points but offers little in the way of actual solutions while also making tone-deaf gaffes and reacting like he is the victim whenever he's called out on them.