This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
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As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
The Queen’s broadcast to the UK and Commonwealth
UK PM Boris Jonhson admitted to hospital over virus symptoms
He "continues to have persistent symptoms of coronavirus", a spokeswoman said - including a high temperature.
It was described as a "precautionary step" taken on the advice of his doctor.
The prime minister remains in charge of the government and urged people to follow its social distancing advice.
"On the advice of his doctor, the prime minister has tonight been admitted to hospital for tests," the spokeswoman said.
"This is a precautionary step, as the prime minister continues to have persistent symptoms of coronavirus ten days after testing positive for the virus."
She added: "The prime minister thanks NHS staff for all of their incredible hard work and urges the public to continue to follow the government's advice to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives."
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You know, despite having read all the candidates' manifestos and campaign information, I can't remember a single thing about Rayner.
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Sir John Laws, a retired judge and an uncle of Dominic Cummings, died today of COVID-19, aged 74.
More shadow cabinet appointments:
- David Lammy, Justice
- John Healey, Defence
- Ed Miliband, BEIS
- Emily Thornberry, International Trade
- Jonathan Reynolds, Work & Pensions
- Rebecca Long-Bailey, Education
- Jo Stevens, DCMS
- Bridget Philipson, Treasury
- Luke Pollard, EFRA
- Steve Reed, Communities & Local Government
- Thangam Debbonaire, Housing,
- Jim McMahon, Transport
- Preet Kaur Gill, International Development
- Louise Haigh, Northern Ireland
- Ian Murray, Scotland
- Nia Griffith, Wales
- Marsha de Cordova, Women & Equalities
- Andy McDonald, Employment Rights & Protection
- Rosena Allin-Khan, Mental Health
- Cat Smith, Young People & Voter Engagement
- The Lord Falconer of Thoroton, Attorney General
- Valerie Vaz, House of Commons
- The Lord McAvoy, Chief Whip
Edited by TommyR01D on Apr 6th 2020 at 7:08:23 AM
Boris Johnson has been moved into the ICU. He has not been ventilated and is conscious.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/coronavirus-johnson-hospital-1.5522983
Raab has been deputized to run the government.
Edited by Rationalinsanity on Apr 6th 2020 at 4:57:23 PM
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Can someone from the UK can explain what could happen,in the worst scenario that the Prime Minister could die, who could replace him and which political consequences his death could bring for both the UK and the world?
His party will select an interm leader who will become PM. I assume that a full on leadership race would occur once the pandemic has passed.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Well, first of all, let's remember there's a human life at the end of this discussion and I do sincerely hope that he pulls through.
To answer the hypothetical: at the moment, the Foreign Secretary is deputised, so he is technically in charge for the short-term.
There are four Great Offices of State (PM, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary). If you look at just those four offices, the de facto second-in-command is the Chancellor. However, there's a title that is known as 'First Secretary of State'. It doesn't confer any particular responsibilities in its own right (the remit can vary from government to government) other than the fact that it deputises a person in the absence of the PM. If someone in the Cabinet is given this title, they're considered the second-in-command instead of the Chancellor (unless it's the Chancellor who is given it, obviously).
The Foreign Secretary has been given the title First Secretary of State. That's why he's currently standing in for the PM.
The main difference between the role of Deputy PM and First Secretary is that the former is not a Cabinet position whereas the latter is. So, a Deputy PM needs to hold a Cabinet portfolio on top of being Deputy if he's to function as part of the Cabinet. What has sometimes happened in the past is that a Deputy PM who has no portfolio will be assigned the First Secretary title so that they can be a part of the Cabinet.
Usually, you will not see both titles active in a government at the same time unless they're being held by the same person. You won't see them being held by two different people at the same time. That said, I think it did happen during David Cameron's coalition — I know Nick Clegg (the Liberal Democrat leader) was Deputy but I don't think he was First Secretary. Tommy may be able to clarify whether that's right or not.
In the long-run, the Conservatives would have to hold a party leadership election. They would appoint a temporary leader for the purpose of leading until a party leadership campaign can be arranged and run. The winner of that would become the new PM. The next question would then be whether the PM wants to shuffle the Cabinet, so there could be a follow-on impact on who is in the Cabinet and in charge of what department.
The UK does not elect Prime Ministers. Parties elect their own leaders and the leader of the governing party becomes the PM. Government only prorogues for general elections. So, Parliament will continue to function while the party leadership campaign occurs although, obviously, it is a distraction for a party to try and govern and hold a leadership election at the same time. However, the Civil Service will keep the wheels turning no matter what.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 6th 2020 at 10:50:32 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
A pretty thorough explanation, but it's worth looking at the leadership election in a bit more detail. Right now the Tory party is somewhat discombobulated. Decades of Tory orthodoxy has been jettisoned to fight the Coronavirus - and arguably it was only possible to do because Johnson has a personal mandate and majority of 80 MPs.
So in the unwanted scenario of Johnson succumbing to this illness the leadership election might serve as a very untimely moment for the Tory party to have to have those debates about what it stands for. Which could have repercussions on the economic recovery of the UK post Covid-19, if for example the Austerity wing of the party reasserts itself.
We simply don't know what Tory party would emerge, because whilst I bet every candidate would say they are carrying on Johnson's legacy that's about as blank a canvas as you can imagine.
On a different note I do feel that Johnson, as a classicist, would have a wry appreciation for how things have turned out for him. Because it's got all the makings of a Greek Tragedy, and now here he is hoping for the Deus ex Machina of a ventilator to save his life.
Get well soon Boris.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, during the first Cameron ministry 2010-15 Nick Clegg was Deputy Prime Minister while William Hague was First Secretary of State.
Deputy Prime Minister is a title rather than an office - hence the necessity of other posts being held (usually Lord President of the Council), in order for the incumbent to have a ministerial salary. First Secretary of State has the same legal existence as all the other secretaries of state, but does not have a department attached to it.
Even if the explicit title of Deputy Prime Minister is not awarded, there will be a hierarchy of sorts within the cabinet and the leader will have left instructions for who should take over while he is missing, sick or on holiday.
The last British prime minister to die in office was Palmerston in 1865, though Campbell-Bannerman in 1908 deserves an honourable mention. This is where we move into virgin territory since the norm in those days was for the monarch to choose a prime minister at will, or perhaps for the outgoing leader and his senior comrades to nominate his own successor. Nowadays political parties are much more structured and are expected to formally elect a leader. My guess at the most likely outcome should Johnson not survive is that Raab - or whoever else might be the designated backup - would be put in charge for however long it took the Conservative Party to hold another leadership election, and then resign to make way for the winner.
Edited by TommyR01D on Apr 6th 2020 at 3:08:42 AM
Something to consider: I heard on the (Canadian, but the channel is reliable) news that Russian media was saying that Johnson was already on a ventilator. No.10 dismissed this as disinformation. But there is clearly an attempt to muddy the situation here, so make sure you double check the credibility of anyone providing updates.
Edited by Rationalinsanity on Apr 6th 2020 at 7:21:30 AM
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
To be fair to the Russians (!), we've not had a straight answer from Number 10 either. Johnson went from mild symptoms to intensive care in around 24 hours, according to Number 10.
Johnson obviously couldn't have been on a ventilator whilst self- isolating but could have been on oxygen therapy - which could have been mistranslated as recieving oxygen = on a ventilator.
We should have known something was up when Matt Hancock was let out whereas Johnson wasn't, and both had revealed their diagnoses at the same time.
Does Johnson have any underlying health issues that we know about?
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
x4 Thanks for the clarification, Tommy. And the scenario I'm imagining is very similar to one the you are.
x3 Some British online media had been reporting it this morning as well (oxygen, not ventilation). Sky News reported around lunch time that Downing Street had made a statement saying this was a Russian disinformation campaign. There is definitely disinformation flying around with this virus, so I agree it's a good idea to double-check everything that we can.
Not that we know of (except for obesity issues, which apparently can be a factor for this virus), but it doesn't matter. A lot of fit and healthy people have ended up in ICU on ventilators, and dying. I put it on the COVID-19 thread, but I'll add it here because it's such an interesting listen:
Ch4 interviewed an NHS doctor at the Royal Gwent Hospital in South East Wales. The hospital is considered to be at the centre of the Welsh epicentre, the doctor works in ICU and has also had the virus himself and recovered.
One of the things the doctor says is what they're seeing does not match what China said: they're seeing mostly younger people coming into ICU, very often people who are fit and healthy, with no pre-existing conditions.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 6th 2020 at 12:01:58 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
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The real question I have right now is why Ed Miliband is back in the shadow cabinet.
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Captain of the Dead City
Don't see why not tbh
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
I seem to recall this happened as early as 2016 - after years of continual rapid turnover, eventually you will see former frontbenchers coming back for a second round simply because there's nobody else left who hasn't already been tried.
A procrastination in of itself
Generally I think you keep the previous leader out because it risks a power struggle/confusion, once they’re the last but one it’s fine to bring them back in.
Plus, after the last 5 years, I suspect a lot of people wish they’d taken “Chaos With Ed”.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
Always take what mainland China reports with a grain of salt.
Disgusted, but not surprised
This video is making the rounds today.
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Care to explain why?
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It's ten years to the day since Gordon Brown last stood at the dispatch box for Prime Minister's Questions.
His name has also popped up as one of the former leaders calling for a global fund to create a globally coordinated fight against the pandemic to try and mitigate a second wave happening across the world. They've sent a letter to the G20, signed by a large number of leaders and ex-leaders from around the world.
The letter states that the wealthiest countries need to invest in this fund because, if poorer countries and countries with poorer health services are overwhelmed then this will create a bad outcome for everyone in terms of being able to handle this pandemic. It also calls for debt cancellations for certain countries, a coordinated global response to help the world's economy keep going while workers are locked down (this includes ensuring workers keep their jobs and salaries while locked down).
Gordon Brown has signed it, along with John Major, Tony Blair and Rowan Williams (former Archbishop of Canterbury). However, I've seen Brown's name cropping up a lot in recent weeks, calling for global funding to be coordinated against the pandemic. He's one of the three authors of the letter, along with Erik Berglöf (director of the Institute of Global Affairs) and Jeremy Farrar (director of the Wellcome Trust).
Edited to add: I've found a link to the letter: A Letter to G20 Governments
Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 7th 2020 at 6:37:20 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Updates on the Labour Party
Full results for the Deputy Leadership [1]
Round 1:
Round 2:
Round 3:
Frontbench Appointments [2]
[3]
Edited by TommyR01D on Apr 5th 2020 at 10:43:22 AM