Devilman

Saga's toned that down a lot from what I''ve seen. Now that edgy for the sake of being edgy is now really common the limits Nagai pushed back in the day no longer have the impact they once did.

Also is the Hitler and Jewish demon thing in Grimoire? Cause I thought you meant Shin Devilman/Devilman Deluxe Edition.

I'm reading the Classic Collection that just came out but it definitely wasn't there when I read the manga way back online.

That's the Deluxe edition.

Read Grimoire vol. 2. I definitely think the classic series is better, it's hard to top an Epic Horror manga, but Grimoire is a lot of fun too. I like that Maki is a more important character instead of just being Akira's girlfriend, on top of being a huge dork who thinks she's a witch. The twists to traditional Devilman are also really great and why I'm not really interested in watching Crybaby, and I hope they keep it up.

edited 7th Jun '18 11:40:22 AM by Mr.Badguy

Miki is always more prominent when she isn't paired with Akira. Otherwise she's just a lust object for Akira. A fantasy.

Shame that Crybaby kinda missed that by making the fantasy Miki into a reality.

That's why Amon in Akira Meatsuit x Miki is a thing in Grimoire/1970s as Devilman and Ryo x Miki are a thing in Violence Jack.

..Not Really.

She has more character in Crybaby then in the 70's manga, if anything.

Because she was an ordinary teenage girl. Not a saint, and when push comes to shove willing to fight and die to protect her life. The Deluxe edition even goes onwards to have Akira imagining her as things like a mermaid and events that never happend just to show how much he's idealized her in his mind..

Like I said he made her into a fantasy.

So, I'm curious. What moment from Devilman Crybaby do you guys believe was the most disturbing?

edited 15th Jun '18 1:25:09 AM by Awesomekid42

I'll start with Miko rendomly being held at gunpoint to be raped, killing said rapist mid-coitus by....... fucking him too hard I guess, & continuing with the now headless corpse.

That was just fucked up in every sense of the word.

edited 15th Jun '18 1:39:53 AM by slimcoder

Our main character raping a demon lady to death in midair.

That was equal parts messed up and darkly funny to me, since I couldn’t help but think of South Park and Mr. Garrison going “Fuck em all to death!” And Akira took it literally.

Was it ANYONE but Silene I would not have gone to that dark place.

The Miko thing was the most disturbing because it was regular people doing it to a regular girl. There was no insulation from the horror.

edited 15th Jun '18 8:02:20 AM by Beatman1

Miko having a rape fantasy.

Grimoire is kind of sexually exploitative but Christ alive you guys are making me happy I didn't watch Crybaby.

edited 15th Jun '18 10:22:24 AM by Mr.Badguy

Nagais stuff is always trying to have his works be repulsive like that. When he wants to show the repulsive side of humanity Nagai goes all out.

Violence Jack and Lady are even worse.

It's actually shocking that more than ten chapters translated in Saga doesn't have any of it.

edited 15th Jun '18 10:35:52 AM by OmegaRadiance

Crybaby is actually really good. Its just moving at full speed and takes Go Nagai's approach to sex and violence to heart.

Violence Jack is just disgusting. I've never read Lady Devilman.

edited 15th Jun '18 11:26:21 AM by Zeromaeus

Devilman Lady's way worse than Crybaby when it comes to rape. I stopped reading when I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

The DML anime by contrast is significantly better in that regard.

Violence Jack is no better about it either. But in Lady it was especially cruel how it just keeps happening to Satan.

Hey I have news on Violence Jack and its last three chapters! I found a translation that explains pretty much literally everyhing except why Miki is there or why she turns into an actual dog

Im editing this post so anyone interested can read it.

The world of Violence Jack is a new universe created by Satan following the ending of Devilman. After God and the Angels killed anything left alive, the world was a blank nothing. Satan as God's Angelic Son was also capable of Creation, just as His father was, and made a new world based on his heart.

Edit: For a time, things were good, however, Satans guilt and self-hatred for killing Akira and causing mankinds extinction turned the first part of the world he made, Kanto, into the hellish Kanto seen instory. Despite this, the people continued to struggle to survive even as Satans own despair continued to lash out st himself and the world he made.

Edit 2: His greatest mistake, and what continued to ruin things for everyone, was Satan Reviving Akira Fudou and Amon as Violence Jack into the new universe. As the greatest source of his guilt, and representing the darkness of Satans heart. His new leash on life lead Satans heart to literally and metaphorically split into his Dark Side(Zenon) and Light Side(Ryo Asuka).

Edit 3: He reduced himself to a man-dog as punishment for his actions. Slum King, embodiment of guilt, existed to punish him. Satans desire to defeat his inner demons led him to manifest other aspects of himself to defeat Slum King. Ryu Takuma, Tenma Saburo, Takeshi Kaidou, etc. were some of these champions meant to defeat his darkness. The darkness, however, grew as well, and so gave rise to the Heretics, Dragon Calvary, and other enemies

Edit 4: Dog vs King, Mortality vs Immortality, etc. This conflict grew abd soon even more aspects of Ryos personality manifest, Slum Queen, Mondou, and Midou were born. Zubaban, Slum Kings son, born from his darkness. A Good Counterpart to Zubaban was born in Honey Kisaragi snd the seven Honey Angels were born to oppose him.

Edit 5:If Honey could save Ryo, then Ryo, would be restored as Lucifer and not Satan. However, she lost, and so Satan returned to destroy the world he made to nothing'.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 4th 2019 at 12:23:32 PM

The rest is clear by the pages, world turns into the one at the end of Devilman, most of humanity is dead but its mentioned some people survived to witness the final battle, however, Satan bestowed so much power upon Akira he made him a true equal as a living embodiment of darkness. Light and Dark clash as their battle concludes with Akira discarding his demon form after killing Satans Dark Side, the great dragon Zenon, as Akira and a crying Satan descend as a ball of light before vanishing. Afterwards the sun transforms from a ball of darkness back to light and the world sans Kanto is restored like none of it happend.

Before the Distant Finale its followed by Shin Violence Jack where Amon is now solely Violence Jack, Zenon is a Castle, Akira is the Skull King and Slum Queen + revived demons are surprised their master is him. If you expect any answers like Violence Jack tough luck it ended at three volumes and he didn't answer squat about why this is happening.

And Miki is the master of Cerberus.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 4th 2019 at 12:41:29 PM

Maybe it’s for the best Netflix never adapted Violence Jack.

That it reads as an even more hateful version of events than Devilman should be enough, really. Devilman is fascinating in how it provides a level of comfort comparable to an iron wool sponge bath. Violence Jack is worse.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Apr 4th 2019 at 9:19:16 AM

Brutal.

You can at least take Devilman as an Anti-War story. Violence Jack just sounds boring.

Violence Jack from everything I understand is a prototype for Fist of the North Star and similar stories except they go significantly lighter on the sliding scale, with actual humor and the like. Gotta start somewhere though.