Tales Series

So, Vesperia had a whole subplot about how vigilante killings, even against undeniably awful people are wrong... and Zestiria has Rose doing the same thing, having no remorse, and being portrayed positively for it?

I mean Vesperia's Anti-Vigilantism plot sort of ended without a conclusion except for that vague "it ain't fun if it happens to you" so I guess Rose is just the logical conclusion of that.

Edited by Kiefen on Jul 29th 2023 at 12:57:09 PM

Yeah, one of the main issues with Vesperia's plot is how the compelling main theme is sort of unceremoniously dropped halfway through the second act and never brought up again.

Yeah, that's definitely one of Vesperia's failings. It just kinda...drops when Duke happens.

It technically doesn't.

I brought up on this very thread (don't ask me to find the post, it's years back and we all know the search is shit now), and it ended up in the Fridge page for Vesperia that Duke himself brings back those themes of Justice.

His decision to kill all of humanity to destroy the Adephagos is him forcing his justice onto others. He's taking Yuri's attitude of when the part is infected, you cut it out ad applying it to the entirety of humanity. He sees every human being the exact same way that Yuri saw Cumore and Ragou: something that needed to be destroyed for the greater good.

I argued that he was taking Yuri's philosophy at that time to its absolute darkest possible place, and shows just what might have happened if Yuri continued on this path.

Or at least that's how I saw it.

That might have worked better if Yuri and Duke met more and interacted more often.

I've gotten a ways into Vesperia (up to Kiev Moc), and the plot thus far doesn't feel very cohesive. It doesn't get any better, does it?

From what I remember, it was pretty cohesive until the third act, where everything falls apart storywise. There was a bit of meandering in Act One but that's normal for JRPGs, they have to introduce all the party members and worldbuild and such.

Edited by PhiSat on Jul 30th 2023 at 2:03:47 AM

I find that it's decently concise and put-together for Act One, kinda meanders about for a while during the start of Act Two until the characters find an excuse to get on with the main plot (par for the course for Tales), has a more-or-less cohesive direction for most of Act Two, then kinda railroads itself towards the finale in Act Three.

Beyond The Dawn just got announced for Arise. Some sorta story expansion of some kind.

Some details here.

Surprised to see a full DLC expansion 2 years later, apparently it’s pretty meaty too, they’re saying it’s about 20 hours

Sorry for popping in here out of nowhere here, but I recently read the page on Tales of Arise and then I came to it's Deconstruction entry. Upon reading it I think it might be in need of some serious cleanup as some entries seem to be clear cases of trying to shoehorn stuff in, with a lot of roundabout logic and explanations to justify them when they either end up not being deconstructions at all or or otherwise.

(And also, I think I have noticed quite a bit of Justifying Edit's on the page overall as well)

Just wanted to take it up with you all and hear what you have to say on the matter before any action is taken as I have learned that some seem to be quite defensive with the game.

Also, speaking personally, having played the game myself, I felt it really lacking in the deconstructive elements the series is supposed to be known for making some other entries there and thus even further leaving me scratching my head.

Edited by matteste on Sep 15th 2023 at 11:09:38 AM

Yeah, a lot of my friends I've talked with weren't impressed with Arise either. It did gangbuster numbers either way tho...which Namco took ages to notice

Also if you need help cleaning up the place why not give Ask The Tropers or the cleaning up forums a call?

~matteste There's a very dormant Tales cleanup here but I think you'd have a better chance of just PM-ing the people involved with the edits and discussing the entries with them. Alternatively, pinging the people to that thread if you want to make it a public discussion.

~lapistier Not sure about that being the best idea given I am not really a people person and can get somewhat passive aggressive even at the best of times in case of an argument. Its a big reason to why I am here in the first place as I am well aware of my shortcomings. Additionally, while I know it is bad to jump to conclusions about other people, speaking from personal experience and looking at the edit history of the page I think it wouldn't do any good to try given just how overly defensive one of those responsible seems to be at even the smallest thing that could be read as negative (in fact, seems to be a serial edit warrior judging by the history).

~Mighty Kombat I'll try that and see how it goes. I asked here first mostly cause it is under the assumption that those here actually know the game and its story and can thus make a more informed decision.

Edited by matteste on Sep 16th 2023 at 11:27:21 AM

So its a few years too late but Legacy costumes are back and...well they're okay.

The Ludger outfit is nice but I’m not really sure the Velvet costume fits Shionne

I guess there will always be unfitting outfits in a legacy pack. And Alphen getting Ludger's outfit just highlights even more how reused his design feels.

So I started Tales of the Abyss, just got past the abandoned factory, where Luke and Asch see each other face to face for the first time. I'm enjoying it a lot, so far the world is pretty well put together and the characters (well, sans Anise) all have depth to them, not to mention their interactions are great. Sadly I've been spoiled on a couple of major plot points, namely Luke is a replica of Asch and Van is the Big Bad, but it's not like the game isn't laying on the hints thick, so whatever. I'm enjoying the bits of characterization that show the characters being more than just archetypes — Luke being such a dick to Mieu in part because Mieu indirectly made it so the party had to kill the Liger Queen for trying to protect her kids, Tear softening up to Luke a ton when she finds out he's not just a shitty spoiled brat but a sheltered-to-the-point-of-borderline-abuse kid, Luke's own worship of Van because he is the only one who treats him like a person, Guy's fear of women not just being a funny gag but an obvious consequence of PTSD.

I also like the effort put into the world, I'm getting a nice dose of Magi Babble but it all feels consistent and logical. Visually, I'm using an HD texture pack but even without it the art direction and shot composition are really good. The progression mechanics like FSC and Capacity Cores are interesting and the former in particular I'd love to see in other Tales, though FOF feels a bit undercooked this early in, as half-strength FO Fs disappear before you can cast again so you have to use multiple characters or take advantage of enemy attacks. Combat is... basic really, it's pretty much Symphonia with free run and at-will OL but without all the cool mechanics in Vesperia that makes both of those so good. Serviceable, but I'm definitely playing for the story.

Also Jade rocks.

If you're playing Abyss, be sure to have a spoiler-free sidequest guide open (there's bound to be some out there). There's a lot of missable stuff in it.

Yeah, there is one and I'm following it closely. Learned my lesson with Symphonia lol

Got to the end-ish of the first act, Big Tales Twist out of the way. I'm glad it was this early in, means that I spoiled myself way less than I thought I had. The aftermath of Akzeriuth is ranking up there with the very best of Tales in terms of emotional impact. The party chastising and dismissing Luke one by one until he's a sobbing wreck is a fantastic gut punch. The later reveal of him being a replica is almost quaint in comparison, having burned his relationships is easily as heavy a toll on Luke (and the player) as the rather telegraphed reveal that he's a fake (lampshaded by Asch, too).

In fact, in what I'm assuming is an intentional writing choice, the party's dressing-down of Luke goes too far. It can't be overstated what a whiny, arrogant, self-centered, pathetic brat he is, and the game takes pains to rub it in your face (especially in the dungeon immediately preceding), to the point where at times I felt the party was way too lenient on him. But the brilliant thing is that he has actual reasons to be that way beyond just being a spoiled brat. He's practically a child in a teenager's body! He was emotionally neglected and prevented from broadening his horizons or even befriending the help! It's a wonder he didn't turn out even worse. When he's pitifully trying to deflect the blame for the massacre and incurring the party's disgust, sure he's pathetic, but his complaints are right. A good half of the party knew or strongly suspected about his origins, they kept him in the dark despite his protests, they didn't even bother to give him any reason to mistrust Van and trust them instead, let alone fill him into the broader context. Soke of their remarks are particularly cutting too, Jade is barely ruder than usual and Natalia is justifiably frustrated, but Anise (my least favorite party member by far right now) is downright cruel, Tear has the harshest judgment (when she had eased up on hin considerably after finding out about his amnesia) and Guy's wording borders on Hidden Disdain Reveal (I'm still pretty sure that he's hiding some very big bombshells, but at least he had the decency to defect from Asch to go and wait for Luke). Maybe it's a Japanese thing, to treat the abdication of personal responsibility as the biggest crime possible, but Luke, for all his dickishness and immaturity and selfish motivations, truly did what he thought was best, and all it got him was being used and tossed away by the one authority figure that he thought treated him as a person, and his friends turning their backs on him at his lowest moment. Mind you, reading his diary in the Synopsis shows how much of a twit he is (referring to the party as "these losers" and "bastards" and talking about wanting to ditch them for Van), but it's not even relevant to the moment in particular.

Whew. Haven't been invested in a JRPG's story like this in a while. The actual gameplay is... probably my least favorite in a Tales game so far (Symphonia had the benefit of novelty), but the story has me hooked.

The funny thing is that if you go even deeper into it and learn more you’ll see you’re spot on that he’s basically still a child. For other reasons regarding how replicas work.

For Jade and Anise at least, they'd barely been holding back from giving Luke a verbal smackdown for a while, so I get that they'd really let loose once they get the chance.