Naruto

I mean, the late part of the manga feel very uber mythological in the a sort of "and then he move his sword and slipt the earth with his power" kind of way(Madara), this specially as what is a ninja move from the idea of ninjas of sealthy killer to samurai(itachi feel very much the story of a samurai honor clashing to aborrent orderd by his daymo) to what is pretty much a sort of mage specially when chakra become more mysthic.

I'd say it's more of a wuxia story with a more heavy martial-arts bent. As in, mystical martial arts with ideas of power from enlightenment, bhuddist ideas, etc. I've been reading Journey to the West and it definitely feels more in line with that sort of idea, with people breaking the shackles of humanity.

Madara especially is a case of someone who, through martial arts effectively, became a god among men even in his first life. Perfect Susanoo reads right out of Journey to the West.

But there's also a bunch of ideas of him being more powerful after effectively reincarnating through Edo Tensei, Rinne Tensei, his first death, his enlightenment regarding the past, etc etc etc. Naruto and Sasuke meet the sage and are enlightened, becoming vastly more powerful, etc etc etc.

It's less focused and coherent, but it's there IMHO.

Edited by devak on Jan 4th 2024 at 9:31:09 PM

That is part and parcel of the genre being inspired by Dragon Ball which in turn was inspired by Journey to the West.

Kinda random, but do you know what my favorite, heartwarming, wholesome moment of the whole series is?

Not Zabuza discovering his heart, Sakura defending Naruto and Sasuke in the Forrest, Naruto finally being reconized as a hero by the village, or anything else.

It's Madara stopping Hashirama from killing himself. Seriously, just about everything from it is perfect. Be it the "Homecoming" soundtrack, the flashbacks to them skipping stones, Madara telling his friend that he now knows what is inside of him, or both Clans finally making peace, despite years of bloodshed.

Just a shame it didn't last.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 4th 2024 at 5:20:12 PM

This is awesomely heartwarming. You should add it to the page because its such an underrated moment I didnt know about it until now.

It's also what makes Madara's later relapse into villainy so much more tragic.

People have been saying that for years.

@Devak

Itachi can also help others achieve Nirvana.

Kabuto experience with the Izanami can be viewed as Buddhism: The Abridged Version for children

1-He is trapped in an illusionary world.

2-He spent his time trying to get things that he thought would make him happy, but in reality, he is only perpetuating his misery further.

3-He keeps coming back to "life" again and again.

4-Finally he starts to understand that what he wants to achieve is not important; he understands that he is being reincarnated and that to make it stop, he will need to cast aside his desires.

5-He succeeds, and as a reward, he gets to stop reincarnating and get free from this world of illusion.

..................

The only thing different is that he get reincarnated into the same person in the same point of time.

Interestingly there is another illusion technique called the Temple of Nervana, but it is not the one used with Kabuto.

Edited by jawal on Jan 12th 2024 at 3:32:28 PM

Thanks, that's actually really interesting. We see something similar with Naruto overcoming his inner hatred by accepting it, and the "six paths" similarly implies a level of nirvanic enlightenment. But i hadn't considered you could apply that to Izanami too

x2 I'm pretty sure Kabuto used it during Konoha Crush.

Edited by jouXIII on Jan 12th 2024 at 8:15:48 PM

Totally Not Mark made a 6-hour video on Naruto.

Specifically, it's a 6 hour compilation of all of his previous Naruto videos.

Oh, is it? I thought it was new. Whoops, sorry.

Looks like its Boruto vs Mitsuki for a fight next month.

I mean, is that even meant to be a challenge anymore

Well he does seem to have poison that will effect even an Otsutsuki like Kawaki with paralysis so he does have an instant win condition right there regardless of whatever other advantages Boruto has gained.

Seems Boruto learned Purple Lightning in the interim.

There is a discrepancy between how Ninjas, are supposed to be practical, effective and laser-focused on their mission, and many of the villains who will just stop to chat in the middle of the fight.

Zabosa could have won in his first confrontation with Team 7, after capturing Kakachi in that bubble, his target was just there defenseless.

Yet he felt the need, to start posturing before three children, blabbering about how superior he is, and sharing his life story for some reason.

The only ninjas who actually work silently are the Anbu, and they are a joke, the Red Shirt of the manga.

Except for Kakashi and Itachi.

This is probably the first discrepancy a lot of people see about how Naruto look as manga and how it actually is.

Like I remenber someone who did a ruleset for roleplaying Naruto have to tone down the power scale and said "Naruto should be fantasy metal gear" which kinda tell you a lot, Naruto being so shonen hero that it hurt and power scale getting higher kinda turn a lot of people off

A fan video I came across of Adult Naruto meeting Jiraiya again:

I know there was an arc in Boruto where Sasuke and Bort went back in time when Naruto was still 11-12 and met everyone from that era. This took place during the time Sasuke was with Orochimaru so Jiraiya was still alive as well, and they even enlisted his help if I understand things.

I'm wondering if he got any clues as to his future there as well. I know Naruto got his mind wiped of the incident, but I'm assuming Jiraiya didn't since there wouldn't be much point.

I think it's because Kishimoto realized very, very quickly that doing a shonen battle manga with people who are supposed to remain quiet and stealthy is virtually impossible. It's especially a bit silly because i think the character work is part of his strength and so having people fight who know nothing about each other doesn't really work.

It's also notable, IMHO, that this happens as early as Zabuza. There never really was a manga about stealthy ninja doing stealthy ninja things, it's much more of a wuxia story in the style of ninja and ninja folklore (that eventually expands to more bhuddist and more general folklore).

On the other hand I can see why people thought that way, the power level of Naruto were while Wuxia, didnt feel so hight Wuxia like Dragon ball and often can have complex manuver, like one of the first great moment of the manga is the whole "hiding behind a shuriken" team up between Sasuke and Naruto.

Hell I will said as starter villian Zabuza is odd as hell, being a outlaw assasin that run away, Haku is closer to steriotypical ninja assasin of fiction outside of Anbu.

But yeah is Naruto himself the bigger telling the story would be more shonen focus really since by all means even by fictional standards, Naruto suck as ninja.

Serial escalation may be popularly associated with Dragon Ball but its a staple of the genre. Even classics like Journey To The West start with a monkey who can only beat weak animals before fighting the forces of heaven and winning,before facing the budda himself who beats Sun Wukong by having literally the entire universe in his hand, and that's still only a third or so into the story.

Yes early Naruto is quite grounded and IMHO much grittier and critical of its world. There's a considerable escalation in power too, since early on a few Kunai can absolutely kill a powerful ninja but by the 4th war, they're basically useless. But i think there's a considerable difference between "people expected this story to be about relatively grounded fights" (which is reasonable, since for much of the story it actually IS) and "people expected this to be about ninja doing stealthy stuff" which it frankly, basically never was. It was always battle shonen.

I think the most emblematic of the shift is ultimately the Tailed Beasts themselves. Kurama is a powerful spirit being (and so is Shukaku) but they are still mostly just giant creatures. Shukaku is beaten by Naruto transforming into Kurama and then punching out the host. This is not easy to square with later tailed beasts as nuclear weapons that can also take absurd levels of punishment before being beaten, up to and including defying death.

So yea: readers/watchers expecting fights between people using weapons, tools, fists, and occasional ninja magic is reasonable, cause this easily holds basically all the way to Pain over 300+ chapters later. People expecting ninja shenanigans weren't paying attention since like, chapter 4?5? maybe be charitable and say 50-ish but before chapter 100 it was very clear that this was Battle Shonen.

Edited by devak on Jan 23rd 2024 at 12:58:48 PM

Genuinely touching.