Naruto

She attacked and tried to kill him only because he went off the deep end. God knows she desperately didn't want to kill him, but Sasuke being Sasuke made that....difficult.

I've already declared them both awful.

Clearly, i've won this argument and we should all accept it...

...huh, am I back on this thread? Even I unsure about this. I just popped in, saw the conversation and added my 2 cents.

She’s not a very good ninja if she can’t even put aside her feelings to kill what is clearly a violent maniac. Like sure she didn’t want to do it but He’ll she really shouldn’t have gone through so much effort if only to chicken out in the end.

Then there’s Shikamaru’s whole spiel that if the Cloud rightfully kills Sasuke she would have no self-control & try to attack the Cloud starting another war because apparently the Leaf has never heard of the basic concept of self-control.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 14th 2018 at 1:41:20 AM

Yes Sakura does not have any self control we know this.

Sasuke is infinitely worse than Sakura, who is still a pretty awful person.

But her trying to kill Sasuke isn't part of that. She did it because he had become a thoroughly awful person. He tried to kill her because he'd become a thoroughly awful person.

Naruto/Hinata's relationship isn't as bad because it's not toxic/abusive. It's still poorly developed and needlessly drawn out.

I wasn't saying Sasuke isn't a worse person than Sakura. I'm just annoyed by how often I see it portrayed as him being a domestic abuser who hates and tries to kill the helpless martyr Sakura, which isn't right at all.

The only incorrect part of that is calling Sakura a helpless martyr.

And I don't think anyone here is doing that, given how openly critical we are of her.

How is he a domestic abuser for trying to kill an enemy that he wasn't in a relationship with?

Emotional neglect is a form of abuse. He's still a shit person after his 'redemption'.

Edited by Saiga on Aug 14th 2018 at 9:17:14 PM

This. I admit that I'm biased because I'm both a Sakura and a NaruSaku fan but their relationship is terrible. While I like Sarada as a character I would have preferred neither of her parents to get with anyone over getting with each other.

Edited by Chariot on Aug 14th 2018 at 7:33:22 AM

Dude apparently can’t be there enough just to be in a simple family photo.

I mean seriously that’s fucking hilarious, around 20 years & not one damn photo.

Like c’mon how hard is it to take one Goddamn picture?

1. Emotional neglect is considered different from emotional abuse, and only considered a form of abuse from parent to child. So he's abusing Sarada (something I think nobody would dispute), but not necessarily Sakura.

2. Sakura is fine with their relationship. She doesn't ask him to do anything different, and never tries to get him to take a picture either. Is it really emotional neglect when she doesn't feel emotionally neglected?

Sakura's maturity is something seriously in question.

Also, I'm not sure "he tried to kill her only because she tried to kill him for being a terrorist trying to murder everyone in her home" is exonerating. Nor is it even accurate. He ordered Sakura to murder Karin and then tried to kill her when her back was turned.

Just because someone is okay with an abusive relationship doesn't mean an abusive relationship is okay.

God this is terribly depressing. I know One Piece is not any better and that thread too can be negative...but at least its not so relentlessly depressing.

Let me just add these two videos by SFM creator Daitomodachi that perfectly encapsulates the whole relationship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkX7sWBREps

First one Naruto invites Sakura on a talk-show to deal with her relationship issues but things don't go as plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdd7GniL5KQ

Second one deals with Boruto & Sarada discussing their father issues to each other before Sarada picks up her mother from jail.

Ah well if so then yeah that's pretty true.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 14th 2018 at 5:29:57 AM

I think Aegis meant the series (since OP has its own issues with women), not the threads.

What? Where are you pulling that definition from? If emotional neglect can be abusive from parent to child, it can be abusive toward a significant other as well.

And, as mentioned, yes you can still be abusive even if your partner tolerates it. Because tolerating it is clearly what Sakura is doing - she's unhappy about that part of their relationship.

Literally every single result from the first page of Google searches on the term "emotional neglect" is where I'm pulling it from. I did, you know, actual research because I don't believe that abuse is so cheap it should be used as an easy fandom brownie point against a character you dislike. Where's your definition from?

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Aug 14th 2018 at 8:47:50 AM

I like how even your source says it's a gray area that's separate from emotional abuse. And of course nobody is motivated by hating Sasuke, it's not like this entire thread is a Sasuke hate echo chamber and everyone responded to me saying it's not abusive by saying "but Sasuke sucks though."

And I'm sorry that I take abuse seriously. I fucking hate when fandoms call every relationship they dislike abusive without looking at what abusive relationships are like. It's not like I'm saying it's healthy or anything, but it doesn't have the characteristics of abuse that a relationship like Edward/Bella or Reylo does.

@Lighty, no it's not. It's entirely clear she has never matured. A mature person does not break her own house out of frustration over her daughter asking a legitimate question. A mature person does not get into a romantic relationship with someone who has tried to kill her on more than one occasion. A mature person doesn't insist on handling a problem alone only to balk when it comes time to execute.

Is there like any other way to criticize an abusive relationship other than pointing out that the abuser is doing abusive things? You're trying to make everyone who criticize Sasuke as motivated by mindless hate as opposed to there being something to hate about him.

'Other forms of abuse' says that it is a form of abuse itself, though. You're really cherry picking with every post.

This thread is not a Sasuke hate chamber. You're being incredibly hyperbolic. You are also not the only one who takes abuse seriously, as you sit there and try to excuse abusive behaviour in fiction.

This isn't people calling it abusive because they dislike it. It being abusive is the reason to dislike it.

People bash Sasuke in post after post, outright admit that they hate all Uchihas, and never say anything good about the character, but it's not a hate echo chamber? I say this as as someone who doesn't like Sasuke, too.

"Cherry picking" says the one who found one phrase in one source that could imply but not explicitly state that it counts as abuse, while ignoring that Sakura never tries to contact him or implies that she's unhappy with the state of her marriage. The amount of times people talk about stuff he did that has nothing to do with Sakura or happened when they weren't involved also has me doubting good faith.

I admit that I'm probably a bit more annoyed than I should be because of how omnipresent it is for bashers to cry abuse in fandom, but it really seems like people are stretching because they want it to be abusive. Again, I agree he was abusive to Sarada, but I don't think that the shoe fits with Sakura.

Personally I hate Itachi and Obito with an indifference to Sasuke, but Sasuke and Sakura's relationship is the current topic, so bashing the two is unavoidable. Not to mention the victim in an abusive relationship do in fact rarely call out their abuser, and saying Sakura is in the wrong is pretty victim-nlaming. That and Sasuke doesn't even give a way for her to contact him, not even by letter.