Line #24 YMMV/MarioAndLuigi


1	!YMMV pages to specific games
2	* ''[[YMMV/MarioAndLuigiSuperstarSaga Superstar Saga]]''
3	* ''[[YMMV/MarioAndLuigiPartnersInTime Partners in Time]]''
4	* ''[[YMMV/MarioAndLuigiBowsersInsideStory Bowser's Inside Story]]''
5	* ''[[YMMV/MarioAndLuigiDreamTeam Dream Team]]''
6	* ''[[YMMV/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam Paper Jam]]''
7
8	!YMMV to the series
9	* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: Akira Noguchi's concept and promotional art uses a strange, very unique, very colorful style that looks wonderful. The sprites are also some of the most popular in the Mario franchise, to the point that it's popular to customize them.
10	* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: All the games have been scored by Creator/YokoShimomura, so it's not surprising at all. Some examples include [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBLp-3Rw_u0 The Grand Finale]] from ''Bowser's Inside Story'' or [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpn1x_OILHE Never Let Up!]] from ''Dream Team''.
11	* BaseBreakingCharacter: Starlow gets quite a lot of hate for being an annoying ExpositionFairy, and for [[JerkassToOne constantly picking on Luigi]]. The fact that she serves the same role in later games, while other characters from the series vanish or get DemotedToExtra, also upsets some players (''especially'' in ''[[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam Paper Jam]]'', where she is the only original character who makes a return). Even Bowser gets increasingly annoyed with her in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' as the game goes on. However, she isn't ''completely'' disliked, as some players like her for her design, {{tsundere}} personality, OddFriendship with Princess Peach, and think that her quips at Luigi are funny and the game makes it clear that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold she doesn't hate him after all]]. Plus, there are some that think [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap her later appearances redeemed her character somewhat]].
12	* BrokenBase: While Bowser's depiction as one of the protagonists in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' is universally loved, fans are divided on how he's depicted in the rest of the series. Bowser [[TookALevelInBadass goes from]] an IneffectualSympatheticVillain and ButtMonkey in ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Partners in Time'' to a KnightOfCerebus BigBad in ''Dream Team'' and ''Paper Jam''. Both portrayals have their fans, who frequently argue about which characterization works better for the Koopa King.
13	* CommonKnowledge: How exactly the ''Bowser's Inside Story'' remake caused [=AlphaDream=]'s demise. While the remake was undoubtedly the final nail in the coffin, it wasn't the ''only'' reason why the company went bankrupt. Sales of the entire ''Mario & Luigi'' series had been on a downward trend; ''Dream Team'' only sold 100,000 copies on its opening weekend compared to ''Bowser's Inside Story'' selling twice that much (not a total failure, but well below Nintendo's expectations), and ''Paper Jam'' was even worse, only selling 50,000 on its opening weekend and barely managing to crack a million total copies by the end of its life. Not helping matters was that [=AlphaDream=] had seemingly abandoned releasing any games outside of the ''Mario & Luigi'' series, having not made a single game outside of it since 2009. With its flagship series' new installments failing, they tried to make up for their losses by releasing remakes of their most successful games. However, insiders at the company reported a reluctance by studio heads to move into full HD development[[note]]According to producer Akito Otani, they wanted to stick with the 3DS because it meant they could develop the remakes cheaper than if they moved to Switch, since then they could reuse assets and code from ''Dream Team'' instead of having to entirely rebuild everything for HD[[/note]], leading to them releasing ''Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'' on the 3DS in the same year that the Nintendo Switch released and interest in the 3DS was at an all-time low. As a result, it sold less than a million copies. Refusing to learn from past failures and releasing ''Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey'' in 2019 (when the 3DS was all but dead, only receiving extremely small-scale ports that received very little interest; not helped by how the 3DS was backwards-compatible with the DS and thus could already play the original) was undeniably the wrong move, but it wasn't the sole reason [=AlphaDream=] went under; it was the culmination of several years of slowly digging themselves into a financial hole they could never have recovered from.
14	* CompleteMonster: ''[[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPartnersInTime Partners in Time]]'': The younger [[VillainousPrincess Princess Shroob]] is [[TheHeavy the acting ruler]] of the [[AliensAreBastards Shroobs]], and debuts leading an [[AlienInvasion invasion force]] to lay waste to the Mushroom Kingdom and depose Princess Peach. Under her heel, the Mushroom Kingdom is reduced to a charnel wasteland, while Toad towns and villages are depopulated so the Shroobs can suck out their life force to fuel their spacecraft, an agonizing and wasting process for the captured Toads. She also unleashes the Yoshi-eating Yoob on the Mushroom Kingdom, transforming whatever it eats into more Yoobs. Princess Shroob also makes a vile public spectacle of Princess Peach's attempted execution, trying to feed her to Petey Piranha in front of a bloodthirsty audience of thousands. Princess Shroob is the crowning example of cruelty even among her AlwaysChaoticEvil species, and is one of the most sadistic villains ever to appear in a ''Mario'' game.
15	* ContestedSequel: Every game after ''Superstar Saga'' with the exception of its own 3DS remake and ''Bowser's Inside Story'', which is seen either as an EvenBetterSequel or in the same league, has been met with this.
16	** ''Partners in Time'' got it mainly because of its [[NoSidepathsNoExplorationNoFreedom extreme linearity]], [[MarathonBoss overly long boss battles]], replacing Bros. Attacks and Points with Bros. Items, total lack of post-game content, and more. In spite of this, many like the idea of having four characters in battle as opposed of two like in most other games, enjoy the [[DarkerAndEdgier darker tone]] of it compared to the rest of the series, like the bosses being durable and longer, and the linearity can make the game faster-paced compared to others.
17	** ''Dream Team'' was this to ''Bowser's Inside Story'', mainly due to its slow pacing and excessive {{Forced Tutorial}}s, although the latter has always been a problem in the ''Mario & Luigi'' series (that said, ''Dream Team'' is the worst offender in this regard). Other reasons include the fact that Bowser is the true main villain after being [[ADayInTheLimelight the main protagonist in the previous game,]] with the supposed main villain Antasma being a GenericDoomsdayVillain, or the [[{{Waggle}} sometimes broken gyro controls,]][[note]]Generally, Motion controls in normal battles would work fine, but were frequently irresponsive in Giant Battles.[[/note]] something that the [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam next game]] removed entirely. However, some would argue that ''Dream Team'' has the best gameplay in the series significantly expanding on the offensive and defensive actions during battle, with many of its boss fights being some of the best, like the motion controls when they work, that it has some clever use of the dream world mechanics, great level design, one of --if not the-- best soundtrack of the series, and the fact that it still had unique characters and locations as opposed to the approach followed by many recent ''Mario'' [=RPG=] games.
18	** ''Paper Jam'' deserves a mention for being a ContestedSequel to ''two'' games that were already {{Contested Sequel}}s. While ''Paper Jam'' had an interesting spin on the formula (having three separate characters in battle as opposed to two) and got rid of the slow pacing, bad gyro controls and {{Forced Tutorial}}s that plagued ''Dream Team'', the game suffered from a total lack of original characters and locations, much like in ''VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar'' (however, it makes up for that by having excellent characterization, as opposed to ''Sticker Star'''s {{Flat Character}}s), and the tutorial syndrome being essentially replaced with overly frequent (and most often annoying) Paper Toad Hunts, contributing to the Toad species' divisive (or [[TheScrappy Scrappy]], if you ask a ''Paper Mario'' fan) status due to being overly prominent. Added to the fact that Bowser is the main villain yet again along with his paper self (only that he's clearly the BigBad from the beginning, unlike in ''Dream Team''), there's no [[DifficultyLevels Hard Mode]] like in ''Dream Team'' [[SequelDifficultyDrop (which isn't helped by the lowered difficulty overall)]], and the giant battles from the previous two games being replaced with Papercraft battles, often considered a ReplacementScrappy to the former, some fans would rather play ''Dream Team'' instead, especially since both games play very similar and ''Paper Jam'' suffers from several things that the later Paper Mario games also did, of which the former didn't.
19	** The {{Video Game Remake}}s of ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Bowser's Inside Story'' are fairly contested, the former for its many changes to EarlyInstallmentCharacterDesignDifference, the latter for being perceived as unnecessary and [[FranchiseKiller being the final nail the coffin, ending the franchise with its bad sales]], and both for their graphical/musical choices and focus on RealTimeStrategy side modes.
20	* DesignatedMonkey: A lot of fans believe that Luigi's ButtMonkey status in the series is taken unreasonably far, as most dialogue surrounding him from [=NPCs=] consist of either [[MyFriendsAndZoidberg not knowing who he is]], or placing Mario on a pedestal compared to him. It also doesn't help that Stuffwell and Starlow's primary RunningGag is the two constantly ragging on Luigi, and his status as a CosmicPlaything reaches its lowest in ''Partners in Time'' when the Star Gate {{gaslight\|ing}}s Luigi into thinking he's self-centered and not a team player, despite it being a SecretTestOfCharacter for Mario.
21	* EnsembleDarkHorse:
22	** Popple's popularity led to him making a return for ''Dream Team'', albeit still as a minor character.
23	** ''Dream Team'' players have found the Massif Bros as two more characters with hilarious speech patterns, between their Russian accents and their constant mention of BEEF!
24	* EvilIsCool:
25	** Fawful is one of the most beloved and quoted characters among the ''Mario'' fanbase for his hilarious personality and speech patterns.
26	** Bowser. The first two games (especially ''Superstar Saga'') give him the short end of the stick, but his playable role and ridiculous feats in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' are well-loved, and subsequent games let him [[TookALevelInBadass keep the levels of badass he took]] and turn him into even more of a KnightOfCerebus than he is in the main platformers while keeping him as hilariously hammy as always.
27	* FandomRivalry: For a long time, fans of both ''Mario & Luigi'' and ''Paper Mario'' were FriendlyFandoms, in no small part thanks to both series having several similarities while being different at the same time. That was until Nintendo [[note]] or more specifically, the producers of ''Paper Mario'' at the time[[/note]] revealed that they were planning to make ''Mario & Luigi'' the ''de facto Mario'' RPG series, and ''Paper Mario'' would continue in ''Sticker Star'''s direction, saying that ''Paper Mario'' wouldn't need RPG elements since the former "already covered those" (which is pretty ironic given that the ''Mario & Luigi'' series incorporates platforming elements into its gameplay a lot moreso than ''Paper Mario''). Now ''Paper Mario'' fans often argue that ''Mario & Luigi'' can't replace the former, among other things. Due to a significant overlap in both fandoms, not only do ''Paper Mario'' fans not actually dislike ''Mario & Luigi'' fans, but fans of ''Mario & Luigi'' also disagree with the idea of "already covering" the RPG audience. Each series are noticeably different in formula, plus the idea of Mario genre dibs were never mentioned once until the ''Paper Mario'' games were facing backlash, making the statement about not having two Mario RPG series even more controversial and suspect. Additionally, both series would end up in the same position of unsure futures after having major sales flops around the time Nintendo's UsefulNotes/NintendoSwitch sparked a transitional period for the company.
28	* FirstInstallmentWins: Despite the sequels developing on and streamlining the gameplay further, many people still cite ''Superstar Saga'' as the best one in the series. On the other hand, many fans consider ''Bowser's Inside Story'' as the best one, or at least second to ''Superstar Saga'', in no small part thanks to the improved gameplay, [[DragonAscendant Fawful as the main antagonist]] and of course, [[ADayInTheLimelight Bowser as the main character]].
29	* FranchiseOriginalSin:
30	** The series never really had many interesting Toad [=NPCs=], there may have been Toadbert, Toadiko and Doctor Toadley, but that was it. Most were just the standard multicolored Toads, and by ''Dream Team'' the standard multicolored Toads were the only Toads to speak of, outside a token appearance by Toadsworth. This was mitigated by the fact that there were other interesting and unique [=NPCs=] that were unique to the series. ''Paper Jam'' does away with the unique [=NPCs=] and has most of the [=NPCs=] be generic Toads or Paper Toads.
31	** The series' lack of innovation between games wasn't a big issue early on when budgets were smaller and each game could be carried by its unique theme, writing/characters, and gimmicks. This ended up causing issues starting with ''Paper Jam'', which despite still being a fun game had a more generic feeling to it compared to the first four due to the restrictions it was held to, so it didn't get much attention. With the following two games being remakes instead of wholly new titles (and being on the 3DS, which was quickly losing relevancy), it was easy for players who had already jumped ship to pass them by, and the increased cost of making 3DS entries didn't do [=AlphaDream=] any favors.
32	** Though ''Partners in Time'' gets some flack from some fans for its lack of post-game content, ''Superstar Saga'' also had a complete lack of post-game content. It wasn't until ''Bowser's Inside Story'' and following entries (including the remake of ''Superstar Saga'') that the series added something to do after clearing the game such as a Bonus Gauntlet with super bosses, Minigames, and Expert Challenges or some sort of AchievementSystem.
33	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: The games are much more popular in North America than they are in Japan, Europe or South Korea. The English translation {{Woolseyism}}s probably help.
34	* HilariousInHindsight:
35	** The final battle of ''Superstar Saga'' was set inside Bowser's body. [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiBowsersInsideStory Guess what's one of the main settings of the third game?]]
36	** Likewise, in the WarmupBoss battle against Bowser in the third game, Luigi is seen sleeping. [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiDreamTeam In the next game, Luigi sleeping and exploring the dream world are some of its main features.]]
37	** Also, Bowser complains about fat jokes when he gets stuck in a Bullet Bill Blaster in the first game. A major plot point in the third game has him gaining weight from overeating.
38	** The final boss themes from ''Bowser's Inside Story'' onwards are often cited as being InTheStyleOf the ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' series, same composer and all. Come ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate'', and Sora can ''actually'' fight with or against the ''Mario'' cast, not to mention that "The Grand Finale" is already a track in the game.
39	* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Luigi and Starlow have been shipped with nearly everyone under the sun. Luigi has been shipped with Bowser and Prince Peasley, often depicting him as an {{Uke}}, while Starlow has been shipped with Stuffwell and Dreambert, often making her {{Tsundere}} side more prevalent. And of course, [[MasculineGirlFeminineBoy Luigi x Starlow]] has an equally strong following.
40	* MagnificentBastard: [[EvilGenius Fawful]] is [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiSuperstarSaga introduced]] as a [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} kooky]], crafty subordinate to Cackletta before graduating to BigBad of the [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiBowsersInsideStory third game]] in the series. Covertly selling a mushroom causing the Blorbs disease to the Toads of the Mushroom Kingdom, Fawful takes advantage of the chaos to provide Bowser with the Vacuum Shroom to allow him to stir up more trouble as he inhales everything in sight. Taking over Bowser's castle, Fawful brainwashes the former's minions into helping him fatten their boss up to allow him to extract Princess Peach from his body and awaken the Dark Star to rule the Mushroom Kingdom. Even when faced down by Bowser and the Mario brothers, Fawful takes in all the power he can to fight to his last.
41	* MemeticBadass: Thanks to the series' main mechanic of being able to dodge or counter any attack, along with the games' tendency to include [[GameBreaker overpowered Bros. Attacks]], this series' versions of Mario and Luigi are believed to be capable of defeating literally ''anyone'' -- even someone as strong as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]].
42	* PanderingToTheBase: After the ho-hum reception of ''Paper Jam'', the next two games in the series to be announced were remakes of ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Bowser's Inside Story'', its two most beloved games -- a pretty clear attempt to [[WinBackTheCrowd win back their old fans]] while introducing them to new ones. While well-reviewed and well-liked by the fans who ''did'' play them, [[CreatorKiller it otherwise didn't work out well]].
43	* SelfFanservice: Starlow is barely anything more than a floating orb with feet in terms of anatomy. Despite this, she has ''oodles'' of RuleThirtyFour made of her on the internet, a lot of which tends to [[HumanityEnsues anthropomorphize her]]. It doesn't help that she unwittingly confesses to basically [[InnocentFanserviceGirl being naked 24/7]] in ''Dream Team''.
44	-->'''Starlow:''' HEY NOW! Who's nude?! Open your eyes! I have SHOES!
45	* SequelDifficultySpike:
46	** The stats of bosses and such in ''Partners in Time'' are ridiculously hard compared to the first one since you have four brothers. That gives you more attack power and more longevity. If the enemies had stats in line with those from the first game, they'd be wiped out.
47	** The fourth game eventually becomes downright ''brutal''. Enemies become powerful enough to take entire chunks out of your hit points, with attack tells being ''much'' harder to spot. Several bosses have attacks that are both fast and powerful, and the complexity of their bigger moves only adds to the difficulty.[[note]]One of the last bosses ([[spoiler:Final Antasma]]) even has an attack that goes on for ''eternity'' if you don't stop it yourself.[[/note]] Don't be surprised if the last bosses can kill you in a few hits. There's also the added [[SelfImposedChallenge Expert Challenges]], which dare you to fight in certain ways in order to obtain points to unlock rewards.
48	* ToughActToFollow: While nowhere near as bad as in its sister series, some fans believe that every game after ''Superstar Saga'' has failed to reach the same level of quality. Likewise, some feel that ''Bowser's Inside Story'' was the series' high point, and that both ''Dream Team'' and ''Paper Jam'' were disappointing successors to the third game. It's not the same case at all, however, because the games were still well-received in spite of those fans' opinions, unlike the widely considered AudienceAlienatingEra of the ''Paper Mario'' games from the 2010s.
49	* TheWoobie: Luigi, who is treated in all games like a massive ButtMonkey, most jokes are made at the expense of him, Bowser doesn't remember his name most of the time, and prominent character Starlow constantly picks on him. This makes players feel bad for him, because true to his character Luigi is nothing but a NiceGuy in all games. Some examples are this [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsTb2uIbuqo scene]] and this [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejw-zCBjc6M scene]] from ''Superstar Saga'' and ''Partners in Time'' respectively, which show Luigi's woobieness when he breaks down crying in both of them.
50	* {{Woolseyism}}:
51	** The games are known for diverting drastically from the Japanese scripts whenever RuleOfFunny comes into play. The Hammer Bros. in the second game in particular definitely did ''not'' speak in 1337 in the original. [[note]]In fact, they only spoke in katakana in the original Japanese, which is commonly used like RoboSpeak would be, [[Administrivia/TropesAreTools so perhaps that was a fresh take on the concept.]][[/note]]
52	** Fawful is interesting here because he talks in a different funny way in every single translation. He adds "ru" to the end of every sentence (repeatedly) in Japanese, has mangled Engrish in English, a strong accent in French, stutters in German, uses made-up words in Italian, speaks very literal English to Spanish in the Latin American Spanish version, speaks in refined Spanish with set phrases in the European Spanish version, and adds "rong" at the end of every sentence in the Korean version. He also [[TalksLikeASimile speaks in metaphors]] in multiple versions.

Context YMMV / MarioAndLuigi