Line #61 YMMV/GameOfThronesS8E6TheIronThrone


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6	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
7	** Drogon’s reason for destroying the Iron Throne. Did he destroy it to spite Jon as a means of “if she can’t have it, neither can you?” Or did Drogon destroy it because he truly blames the Iron Throne more than Jon since he knew his mother’s obsession with it drove her mad and eventually led to her death? Was it Drogon's own idea to burn the Iron Throne instead of Jon, or was he acting on Dany's last mental command? Or Bran's warging?
8	*** In addition, Drogon clearly knew Jon killed Dany, yet Drogon didn't kill him? Did Drogon let Jon live even as he stood there looking as if he was ready for death, forcing Jon to [[CruelMercy live with his guilt for the rest of his days]]? Or was it because he may have been growing disillusioned with Dany, even if he couldn't bring himself to abandon her, after being used to murder so many, including innocents, so when he saw Jon's heartbroken expression, he bitterly acknowledged that Jon did in fact spare her any further suffering and although he certainly was heartbroken, what was the point of killing Jon when he was the one who freed both Dany and Drogon? Wouldn't it only add more to the blood that had been shed? Especially considering Jon was in a way Drogon's "Father", so additionally Drogon may just retain enough affection for him to not be able to bring himself to straight up kill him.
9	** Assuming Jon could have gotten away with killing Daenerys and only got caught because he willingly confessed (supported by the fact Yara knows Jon specifically stabbed her in the heart), it's possible he may not have done it solely out of guilt, but also to remove any chance of Sansa and the other lords forcing him onto the throne.
10	** Bran implies that he can see the future. If so, was he able to foresee Dany's madness, and chose not to say anything because he stood to become king from the whole mess? And what does it say about him exiling Jon to the Night’s Watch? Did he truly do it out of pragmatism, or because [[ThrowTheDogABone he knew Tormund and Ghost would be there to take Jon with them beyond the Wall]]? Did he insist Jon needed to know his heritage despite how nothing good came of it for this reason? If so, does this mean he's been feigning his lack of interest all along in order to grab power for himself with everyone else an UnwittingPawn? Bran spent most of the season saying he is not Bran Stark (and refusing to rule in Winterfell), what if he is telling the truth and is actually [[BodySnatcher Brynden Rivers in Bran Stark's body]]? He suddenly changes his tune about his identity and ambitions when the throne is up for grabs, claiming his Stark name. Would this make him a GreaterScopeVillain or was it motivated by the hope of bringing peace to the realm? Although it is never stated in the show if the Three-Eyed Raven is indeed Brynden Rivers like the books.
11	** Tyrion's ideas - both that the Kingdoms of Westeros should switch to an elected sovereign system, and that Bran Stark should be the first of those sovereigns, are accepted with very little opposition or debate, despite this being a radical change to the form of government, albeit not as radical as Samwell was proposing. Why was this? Was it perhaps that the assembled lords realized that, with Daenerys dead, and Jon Snow imprisoned for regicide, that made Tyrion King of Westeros, by virtue of being the only living family of Queen Cersei Lannister? If so, then in essence Tyrion was very quietly both abdicating the throne, and announcing a successor. Perhaps this was something understood by the assembled lords, and why none of them stood in the way of his ideas.
12	*** However the idea that Tyrion would be considered the rightful heir is rather unlikely, considering many of the Lords did not even see Cersei as a legitimate ruler and if he had tried to press a claim it is unlikely he would have had much support. Gendry would have had a better claim than Tyrion, as the legimitized son of King Robert and a distant Targaryen descendant himself.
13	* AntiClimaxBoss:
14	** Despite establishing herself as the FinalBoss of the show after the previous episode, Daenerys is actually killed by Jon halfway through the episode, stabbed while kissing him passionately.
15	** While it appears that Drogon is going to be a problem after seeing his "mother" is dead, he does nothing but growl at Jon and melt the Iron Throne before scooping up Dany's body and flying away with it.
16	* {{Anvilicious}}:
17	** Drogon burning the Iron Throne could easily be interpreted as this, as it was the source of all the conflict that plagued Westeros. Even though various characters have committed atrocities without using the throne as a source of inspiration, and the fact that the title is "Game of Thrones" in the plural and not singular (i.e. all thrones should be the problem, not just this one), it has been a symbol of all the conflict in the series due to the fact that it sitting on it is meant to be seen as having total power across the realms. Drogon burning it comes across as the writers screaming that the throne was not what was important. Moreover as nearly everyone in-universe considered the Iron Throne as the ultimate symbol of power and domination, it was destroyed by the one individual who cared not one bit for any of that stuff: as what use does a dragon have for a tiny chair made of partially melted swords?
18	** Tyrion's speech about people cheering for Daenerys no matter how many terrible things she does is an unsubtle TakeThatAudience that pushes the dubious idea that Daenerys was EvilAllAlong.
19	* AssPull: Daenerys is conveniently somehow completely alone and unguarded in the huge throne room when Jon kills her.
20	* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The score titled [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJfy5w60YTg "The White Book"]], the song that plays during the scene where Brienne vindicates Jaime despite leaving her for Cersei. It is a variation of "I Am Hers, She Is Mine" aka the series' universal love/marriage theme. In a way, Music/RaminDjawadi 'married' Jaime and Brienne through mere musical notes alone.
21	* BrokenAesop: It's a slippery slope to PayEvilUntoEvil... unless it's to avenge wrongs against yourself personally or your family, which is somehow a more noble motivation than trying to right social ills on a large scale despite being more selfish.
22	* CatharsisFactor:
23	** There's something immensely satisfying about seeing Drogon melt the Iron Throne to a puddle of molten goo, knowing that the pursuit of power led to centuries of atrocities in Westeros. The destruction of a symbol of tyranny signifies the promise of a better future for all kingdoms. It also reminds the audience that it only had power because those who desired the Iron Throne believed it had, when in reality it was just a showy piece of furniture with no power at all.
24	** It's satisfying to see King Bran's court actually work toward making the six kingdoms a better place for their subjects. Even if Daenerys went mad with power, her vision of a better world is actually being realized.
25	%%Discuss it, don't edit-war over it. Commenting out until resolved. For those fans who have always seen Daenerys as a villainous character, her death was quite satisfying.
26	* EnsembleDarkhorse: ''Robin Arryn'', of all people, gained quite a few admirers when he appeared -- far from a sickly, spoiled boy, he seemed to have [[HeIsAllGrownUp grown into a handsome, well-adjusted young man]].
27	* EsotericHappyEnding:
28	** Grey Worm ends up fulfilling his promise to Missandei before the Great Battle of Winterfell, going to Naath with many Unsullied to protect the island. Sounds happy enough (if [[BittersweetEnding bittersweet]] due to the fact his love is dead), but if the TV version of Naath is the same as the books, then the butterflies kill any outsiders due to [[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Butterfly_fever a horrific flesh-sloughing disease.]] that only the Naathi are totally immune to. While no doubt some Unsullied were taken from Naath, Grey Worm was not, and if these butterflies exist in the show's continuity[[note]](Davos mentions Naath's butterflies when meeting Missandei in Season 7, and a butterfly is the sigil beside Creator/NathalieEmmanuel's name in the opening credits)[[/note]], it's likely he's going to die a painful death or watch his fellow Unsullied die painful deaths around him.
29	** Likewise, Arya deciding to WalkTheEarth by exploring the Sunset Sea seems happy... unless you're a book reader, as in the ExpandedUniverse, all others who've tried that, most notably Brandon the Shipwright and Elissa Farman, never returned alive.
30	** Ned Stark's motto of 'The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives' rings very hollow when ''all'' the Stark kids end up separated from each other, with a strong possibility that they'll never see each other again.
31	** Concerning the same motto on a continental scale, with the North’s precedent set so easily, other kingdoms might claim independence (Dorne and the Iron Islands being likely candidates), and then Westeros is likely to revert to its pre-Targaryen state with many petty monarchs struggling for power... just ripe to be taken by [[HistoryRepeats some new conqueror from another continent]].
32	** Westeros under the rule of a BenevolentMageRuler with the consciousness of earlier Three-Eyed Ravens and the Children of the Forest underneath is presented as the best way forward, except others believe that having a sorcerer in a position of authority, one who now has perfect {{Clairvoyance}} and who plainly has [[BlueAndOrangeMorality a morality above ordinary human concerns]], is terrifying, since there's no real way to move or counter Bran without it somehow being in some way AllAccordingToPlan, while also cancelling out free will in the process. Making it even more terrifying is that the ''previous'' Three-Eyed Raven lived to the ripe old age of ''several hundred years'' and ultimately didn't even die of old age, implying that [[ImmortalRuler Bran's rule could conceivably last for multiple lifetimes]].
33	* FanficFuel: We're given several AndTheAdventureContinues endings that if they don't turn out to be outright {{Sequel Hook}}s for the promised spinoffs will definitely be this instead.
34	** Drogon flies off to Essos with Dany's body, leaving a great many questions left to be answered. Furthermore, given some of the wondrous and terrible magic found in the distant east in places such as Asshai and the Shadow Lands, is it possible he might find some way to resurrect his mother in the same manner that Jon Snow was brought back from the dead? After all, the red priests in Volantis did proclaim her to be Azor Ahai. Or perhaps even more ways to bring her back might be possible?
35	** The Six Kingdoms are ruled by a young crippled man with no personal experience but the wisdom of numerous others from the past and maybe even the future, plus several of the most popular characters as his council (plus three more spots still waiting to be filled).
36	** Sansa rules over a truly independent North, and is now tasked with getting the vast country back on its feet after the White Walker invasion and somehow obtaining resources, plus several of the great lords will likely have issues with being ruled by a woman.
37	** Arya is WalkingTheEarth beyond where anyone has ever explored before, with assassin skills helping her to survive any obstacles she may encounter.
38	** Jon has made a new life beyond the Wall with Tormund as his loyal ally, making his way among people he once fought and some may still have grudges over that, plus opening the door to anyone else who wants to escape Westeros for a simpler or better life.
39	* HilariousInHindsight: Bronn winds up becoming the Master of Coin on the new Small Council. Shortly after the episode aired, [[https://mashable.com/article/ser-bronn-cryptocurrency-vegan-nation-game-of-thrones-vegancoin/ his actor became an adviser for a cryptocurrency.]]
40	* InferredHolocaust:
41	** While ElectiveMonarchy seems like a way to ensure that tyrants will not take the throne, history has shown these tend to revert into hereditary monarchies or collapse into [[BalkanizeMe Balkanization]] in the long run.[[note]]Even InUniverse: as per the Histories and Lore segments, the Iron Islands are actually an ElectiveMonarchy too, on paper. In practice, this means the lords of the islands convene in the Kingsmoot and name the eldest Greyjoy son when the current Lord Greyjoy dies.[[/note]] Indeed, the lack of hereditary successor may actually ''lead'' to civil war, as even if Bran has a solid recommendation for his successor, they may not be one all the lords desire for whatever reason (perhaps even ''because'' the new ruler would be ''too good'' to the smallfolk as happened to a degree with Aegon V), with the usual "bloodline" excuse no longer available to fall back on. [[HistoryRepeats The game of thrones will almost certainly continue...]] [[labelnote:Historically...]] The last time an ElectiveMonarchy was extensively exercised in real life, the result was the Holy Roman Empire, which experienced continuous civil wars and near-endless political bickerings between rival noble houses for many generations. This fiasco only ended when a greater power (namely ''Emperor'' UsefulNotes/{{Napoleon\|Bonaparte}} of France) dealt it a deathblow that dissolved it in the 19th century. [[/labelnote]] It seems that the characters all decide the main problem with the throne was it being hereditary (though hereditary electors and a hereditary monarchy in the North are apparently just fine), rather than it holding basically unlimited arbitrary power, which is ''not'' [[HollywoodHistory how most medieval monarchies actually worked]]. Sam's idea adapted into some sort of Parliament/Witan and a rudimentary constitution, combined with a continuing dynasty founded by Jon or Gendry, would've been a more nuanced and historically realistic way to end the show.
42	** In that vein, if being the Three-Eyed Raven is what makes Bran so qualified for the job, who else is going to get that kind of universal support from the lords of Westeros after he passes on? Unless it's the next Three-Eyed Raven, and the Six Kingdoms become a {{Magocracy}} in perpetuity. Will the superstitious and suspicious attitudes common towards magic not cause some unrest?
43	** Allowing the North to secede sets a precedent that can now be trotted out by any of the other formerly independent constituent kingdoms and will likely require wars to quash. Dorne and the Iron Islands have particularly strong motives, since Dorne remained independent longer than the North and isn't represented in King Bran's small council at all, while Yara Greyjoy was promised independence by Dany and seemingly remains loyal to her memory even during the Great Council.
44	** In the past, the North has suffered heavily during winters and required substantial donations of food from the southern kingdoms in order to get through them, which the monarch was obligated to provide when the North was part of the Seven Kingdoms, but won't be now. Not to mention all the material damage caused by the White Walker invasion.
45	** Weiss and Benioff were reluctant to confirm if the White Walkers were finally dealt with; should they still exist, the Wall is missing a huge section and the reason why it kept them out for so long was because it had magic enchantments, which are a lost art in the present era.
46	* InformedWrongness: Tyrion's speech to Jon about Dany's entire story leading to her FaceHeelTurn relies on shaming [[YouBastards the audience]] for cheering on Daenerys when she went PayEvilUntoEvil on the slavers of Astapor, the Wise Masters of Meereen, and the Dothraki Khals, which ended up feeding her MoralMyopia. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that PayEvilUntoEvil has been consistently glorified when enacted by every other surviving character framed as "good" by this episode. For instance, Arya (who [[{{Gendercide}} mass-murdered]] every living male Frey), Sansa (who fed Ramsay to his own dogs), Jon Snow (when he beheaded Janos Slynt), and Tyrion (when he killed his father).
47	* MemeticMutation:
48	** The Pat that was Promised.[[note]]Jon immediately gives Ghost a pat on the head upon their reunion, compared to their underwhelming farewell two episodes prior, which fans were very upset about.[[/note]]
49	** Drogon blaming the Iron Throne (which is made out of swords) as the ''literal'' [[https://i.redd.it/j717a80z2az21.png cause of death]] [[https://i.redd.it/0pacceit3ez21.jpg for Daenerys]]... or alternatively, him being unexpectedly WickedCultured and suddenly start [[https://i.redd.it/xn96keavnnz21.jpg being poetic]] about how it's a more metaphorical cause of death ([[https://i.redd.it/eo9yz4u5we031.png the icing on the cake being his hatred of poor people]]). Others jokingly suggest that he’s just helpfully getting the Iron Throne out of the way since Bran won’t need it (he’s already sitting in his wheelchair). Sometimes suggesting he's making the Iron Accessibility Ramp.
50	** Brienne writing disrespectful things in Jaime's entry. Ranging from, "He hit and quit it," to quoting ''Mean Girls''.
51	** People noting how attractive Robin Arryn has become in his long absence, drawing comparisons to [[Film/HarryPotter Neville Longbottom]]. A common joke to be included with this is that it was Lysa's late breastfeeding that did it for him. Or that finally switching to solids was all that was needed.
52	** Bran ending up on the Throne despite those around him doing the heavy lifting has led to comments comparing Bran to "that one person in a group project who does nothing but gets an A anyway", or jokes about how "[[BehindEveryGreatMan behind every great man]] is a woman that carried his ass through the snow only to never be seen again".[[note]]The latter comment refers to Meera Reed's absence.[[/note]]
53	** Bran wins by doing absolutely nothing! [[labelnote:explanation]]A parody of the infamous [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6PxRwgjzZw Luigi Wins by doing absolute nothing]] from the VideoGame/MarioParty fandom. After all the build up of Bran becoming The Raven ended with an anticlimax in ''Recap/GameOfThronesS8E3TheLongNight'' where it was revealed that he really didn't have a master plan, many viewers were left bemused that Bran got named the new King despite being so divorced from the plot.[[/labelnote]]
54	** [[DarkHorseVictory Jon/Tormund wins]]![[labelnote:Explanation]]Since the last scene of the series is Jon and Tormund heading beyond the Wall together as HeterosexualLifePartners, many have joked that Jon/Tormund is the only ship to become official. Indeed, it's the only notable pairing that hasn't been [[ShipSinking explicitly sunk]], killed off, or separated by vast distance by the end.[[/labelnote]]
55	** Jokes were made about how Bran is actually the "younger and more beautiful queen" that would replace Cersei as prophesied by Maggy the Frog.
56	** "This shot is brilliant and should be shown in any film studies class." [[note]]A Twitter post saying this about the shot of Drogon's wings unfolding behind Dany was widely mocked for being overly hyperbolic, with many more posts applying the quote to much more ignominious material.[[/note]]
57	** The Prince of Dorne and Yara realizing too late that declaring independence was an option. [[note]] They both already voiced support for Bran before Sansa spoke up declaring the North would remain free and independent. Yara in particular only sided with Dany on the agreement that the Iron Islands would be free after.[[/note]]
58	** Daenerys burned down the city because she thought that no more than twenty people would die, and that didn't sound so bad.[[note]]Daenerys suddenly admitting to not knowing how to count past twenty as a child prompted the suggestions that she still couldn't which caused her to miscalculate the casualties.[[/note]]
59	** Jokes about the Unsullied once again re-spawning. [[labelnote:explanation]]Between both [[Recap/GameOfThronesS8E3TheLongNight the battle against the White Walkers]] and [[Recap/GameOfThronesS8E4TheLastOfTheStarks getting ambushed by Euron's fleets]], it was heavily implied that Daenerys suffered major losses to her forces, and yet here Grey Worm states that the Unsullied still number to 1000 men and have the Northern forces in a deadlock concerning Jon's fate.[[/labelnote]]
60	** Sansa's comment about how Bran can't have children became a rich source of jokes, including questioning [[IncestSubtext why she even knows that]], claiming that it was her revenge for him telling her she looked beautiful on her wedding night to Ramsay Bolton, and responding to complaints about scientific accuracy[[note]]Many paralyzed men in real life can still be sexually active and even father children, so Bran's disability shouldn't inherently mean he's infertile.[[/note]] by saying that Sansa just meant Bran's terrible new personality would drive women away.
61	** Arya the Explorer/Arya the Explarya; comparing Arya to WesternAnimation/DoraTheExplorer.
62	* {{Narm}}: Arya saying, "I know a killer when I see one," regarding Dany might've been good foreshadowing and a display of keen insight on Arya's part earlier in the season. Coming on the heels of watching Dany immolate an entire city it's more tempting to shout, "No shit, Sherlock!" It was obviously scripted to be a cool-sounding one-liner, but it's so out-of-place now that Dany being a killer isn't up for debate that it comes off as hilarious.
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64	%% All other entries that have been put here were complaining and nitpicking instead of the audience reaction that is a dramatic moment that ends up being funny for majority of the fandom.
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66	%% Please suggest new entries in a discussion page or in the long term clean-up project thread for narm.
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68	%% Narm is not for complaining/ranting/nitpicking.
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70	* SpecialEffectFailure:
71	** When Drogon melts the Iron Throne, the molten iron looks more like lava than actual molten iron, which glows brightly with heat.
72	** The green screen behind Jon during Daenerys’ NewEraSpeech isn’t particularly convincing.
73	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
74	** Fans were upset that R+L=J amounted to nothing more than giving Dany a reason to dislike Jon, and Jon a reason to deny Dany sex. It remains a mystery why Bran thought it was so important for Jon to know, since nothing good comes of it. The show never explores any potential identity crisis Jon might have or how it would change his feelings about things like Ned, who lied to protect him. Likewise, we never see how Jon's family reacts to this knowledge, or the rest of Westeros learning that the Targaryens are still extant, especially as Edmure is Catelyn's brother and Yohn Royce grew up with Ned in the Vale.
75	** There is no scene showing how Yara Greyjoy reacted to Theon and Euron's deaths, and what she plans to do with the Ironborn in the future, especially given she’s not part of the Small Council and her last scene implying that she’s still loyal to Daenerys and demands justice for her death.
76	** Gendry being Robert's bastard and therefore having a valid claim to the throne is never brought up during the vote to select a king. Of course, Gendry likely would not want it, but his status as Robert's bastard was a major plot point in the early seasons before being dropped until only two episodes ago. Him being made a Baratheon made it seem like it would be important, but ultimately mattered little in the end.
77	** Sansa demanding autonomy for the North potentially opened the door to the question if any of the other Kingdoms also should have made their claim for independence. Particularly Dorne and the Ironborn, who both had thrown their lot in with Daenerys and threatened to back up the Unsullied if Jon was not punished. Then again considering how they’ve been shafted since Robert’s Rebellion, independence might be around the corner for them.
78	** Sam becoming a Maester after all. With him no longer being a member of the Night's Watch, and his father and brother dead, along with him seated with all the other lords at the council. It seemed like he was in fact going to be Lord Samwell Tarly of Horn Hill. We never see what happens to Sam's family but last we saw Gilly, she was pregnant and Maesters are forbidden from marrying. [[note]]Maesters are not supposed to marry and are actually supposed to be celibate, so his child with Gilly would be a bastard, Little Sam is likewise a bastard in the eyes of Westeros society though his true father would obviously remain a secret, and Sam's only other family, his sister was, last we saw, being married to House Fossoway, which leaves Sam's mother alone. [[/note]] Effectively, because Sam did not take this route (and no male cousins are mentioned), House Tarly will become extinct unless he did receive that pardon.
79	** Sam's suggestion of democracy could also have been developed in a more realistic way. Universal suffrage would have been laughable to feudal lords, but the suggestion of some kind of council, made up of the high lords and maybe richer commoners, such as the merchants and the maesters, could have been plausible, and more in line with the history of England that the series is based on. This would also address the contradictory message of the episode -- hereditary monarchy bad, but elective monarchy with hereditary aristocracy good? Given real life history as mentioned above, a proto parliament limiting the powers of a hereditary monarch would be a better bet for long-term stability and reform than an absolute monarchy where the great lords compete for the crown every time the old ruler dies.
80	** The showrunners appear to have forgotten the issue of religion, altogether. Just how the Faith of the Seven would deal with a King who is not only a devotee of the Old Gods but practically a physical embodiment of their religion would have made an extremely interesting story element, not to mention how having a tangible avatar of the Old Gods as King could lead to a resurgence of belief in them. Likewise, the fact that the King comes from the North, which has seceded from the Kingdoms, is a peculiar political mix-up that is never brought up.
81	** The Westerosi demographic StatusQuoIsGod; the wildlings and Unsullied pack themselves off back where they came from and the Dothraki implicitly will as well, when historical precedent both in-universe and in the real world shows it would be more realistic for immigrants to remain in the Seven Kingdoms. There is no exploration of the cultural changes that would result, and it seems forgotten that the wildlings came south of the Wall to find more fertile land to settle on, something they have always wanted, and not just because the White Walkers were after them. Even with the White Walkers gone and the cycle of years-long winters possibly broken (which was never stated to be tied to the White Walkers in the series), the land farthest north will naturally remain the least arable part of the continent, yet none of the wildlings show interest in the South.
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83	%% UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
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85	%% As decided in the Discussion page, the entries were removed because they were complaining about certain characters and not actual examples of UU.
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87	%% If you wish to add a new entry, please submit it to the Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup thread first (located here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15194292110A03429900 )
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90	* TheWoobie:
91	** Tyrion, when he finds the bodies of his siblings under the rubble in the Red Keep's cellar and cries. He's so broken by grief over their deaths and guilt over his role in causing them and thousands of innocents to die that he's resigned to his impending execution, perhaps even [[DeathSeeker welcoming it]].
92	** ''Drogon'', of all characters. He's lost both his siblings and his 'mother' is killed by his only remaining 'relative,' who betrays them. Everything he and his siblings fought and died for in order for his mother to ascend the Iron Throne, including the atrocities he committed in the previous episode, ends up being AllForNothing. The only vengeance he could have is burning the damn chair that is the source for evil games of power down, before flying away with his mother's corpse to fates unknown. For all we know, Drogon is truly the LastOfHisKind, and without anyone to guide him, he's left all alone by himself in a vast world that fears him.

Context YMMV / GameOfThronesS8E6TheIronThrone