Line #66 Main/GreyAndGrayInsanity


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7	[[quoteright:350:[[Webcomic/TheNib https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/c69653a9_ff7a_41d0_a32e_adb2b1cc3128.jpeg]]]]
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9	->''The wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "there's actually zero difference between good and bad things. You imbecile. You fucking moron."''
10	-->-- '''Blog/{{dril}}'''
11
12	On one hand, [[BlackAndWhiteInsanity having an absolute view of the world being Black and White]] is seen as an unhealthy trait in characters. [[InvertedTrope On the other hand]], characters believing in the idea of GreyAndGreyMorality and people being similar, then cranking it up to the illogical extreme of "Everyone is just the same.", even in the context of situations where one side is ''[[ObviouslyEvil unambig]][[ChronicHeroSyndrome uously]]'' [[BlackAndGreyMorality in the wrong]] [[WhiteAndGreyMorality or right end of the moral spectrum.]] [[BlackAndWhiteMorality Or even both sides are unambiguously good and evil.]]
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14	These characters are most likely (but not always) going to be a StrawNihilist, a MisanthropeSupreme or at least someone who may be StupidNeutral. They would try to apply their worldview through copious amounts of InsaneTrollLogic, with them doing anything to prove that ''everyone'' is no different in morality than one another. When it comes to them dealing with heroes and villains, they would try to ensure that both sides would eventually become indifferent to one another, from encouraging morally questionable actions to the heroic side to convincing the villainous side that they too have sympathetic qualities to their faction. Or sometimes becoming apathetic to both sides.
15
16	This usually applies in non-GreyAndGrayMorality scenarios (the most common being BlackAndWhiteMorality.), though in some cases, it can apply if said character's beliefs make them part of the shades of conflict (though sometimes, said worldview would have them go further down the scale).
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18	Sometimes, this can be the case of [[EvilVersusEvil Black and Black Insanity]] (often seen by the StrawNihilist) or [[GoodVersusGood White and White Insanity]] (often seen by the WideEyedIdealist), which although their viewpoints on morality differ, still exemplifies that they do not recognize differing morality.
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20	A direct {{inversion}} of BlackAndWhiteInsanity. See also NotSoSimilar.
21
22	Related tropes include:
23	* BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil -- when good and evil are both "equally" bad unless you have an equal amount of both.
24	* CultureJustifiesAnything -- when characters use moral subjectivity to dismiss their (and nobody else's) guilt.
25	* FreudianExcuse -- when villains claim their past means they have no autonomy.
26	* AllCrimesAreEqual -- when characters regard all acts of crime and flaws to be the same in severity.
27	* WhatIsEvil -- when characters don't understand the concept of good and evil.
28	* ThenLetMeBeEvil -- when they claim doing one bad thing means they might as well do others in the future.
29	* GoldenMeanFallacy: when someone says the correct answer is always in the middle, even when one person or side's position is clearly and indisputably the right one.
30
31	Compare VillainHasAPoint and JerkassHasAPoint. Contrast RousseauWasRight (everyone truly is good), HumansAreBastards (everyone truly is bad) and GreyAndGreyMorality, GoodVersusGood, EvilVersusEvil (for settings where the world actually operates in a way that makes this kind of worldviews completely rational), and GoldenMeanFallacy (the belief that the "correct" way is always in the exact middle between two extremes). Contrast AboveGoodAndEvil (my goal is more important than good and evil). Contrast WithUsOrAgainstUs (a character accuses anyone who doesn't support their cause of aiding their opponents).
32
33	----
34	!!Examples:
35	[[foldercontrol]]
36
37	[[folder:Comic Books]]
38	* This trope is the motive behind many "coerce the hero into breaking their moral code" plots. However dissimilar, say, failing to save someone is to actual cold-blooded murder, the villain wants to feel that the hero is [[AllCrimesAreEqual imperfect, and thereby justify his own significantly deeper imperfections]].
39	-->'''[[Film/TheDarkKnight Batman]]:''' What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?! You're alone!
40	[[/folder]]
41
42	[[folder:Theatre]]
43	* In ''Theatre/DeathNoteTheMusical'', Light chides his Teacher as this trope being the reason for his hatred of modern society and its various injustices with the Teacher acting as the StrawCharacter. This would eventually drive Light on his path to embracing BlackAndWhiteInsanity.
44	-->'''Teacher:''' Your simple arguments have all been made before. The world's not black and white, the choice not "either-or".\
45	'''Light:''' Perhaps it's time we drain the color from it then, till we're back to seeing black and white and wrong and right again.
46	[[/folder]]
47
48	[[folder:Literature]]
49	* In ''Literature/CookingWithWildGame'', the Suun clan try to derail their own trial by bringing up everyone else's misdemeanours. This is not accusing the judges of corruption- none of the misdemeanours mentioned have any bearing on the trial's integrity. This is the criminals saying that they refuse to accept a ruling from ''anyone'' even slightly flawed; in short, any human alive. The judges are not impressed, and the trial continues.
50	* In ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'', [[spoiler:Harry]] is big on the idea that nobody ''chooses'' to become evil, every villain thinks their reasons for doing crime are valid, blah blah blah. So when he knowingly does something bad in ''Changes'', and starts to question his morality, he reasons that the fact he's aware of that evil means it must be worse than any of the evil his enemies have done [[FreudianExcuse unknowingly (?)]], and that means that ''he'' must be worse than any of the monsters who try to blow up Chicago on a daily basis, and he promptly commits suicide. Later, an angel explains to [[spoiler:Harry]] that although he ''is'' imperfect [[HumansAreFlawed (like everyone else)]], that's a reason to ''hope'' for himself and earnestly seek after redemption, not to kill everyone who makes a mistake. Death means a person will never be able to realize their mistakes and change for the better, something [[spoiler:Harry]] didn't realize because he's seen a lot more people go from [[FaceHeelTurn grey to black]] than [[HeelFaceTurn grey to white]]. Uriel also points out that Harry's loved ones have made mistakes, but that didn't stop him from loving them, so he should love himself the same way.[[spoiler: And it certainly didn't help that a fallen angel pushed him over the edge of blaming himself.]]
51	[[/folder]]
52
53	[[folder:Radio]]
54	* ''Radio/TheGoonShow'' does this. The resident villains, [[Creator/PeterSellers Grytpype-Thynne]] and [[Creator/SpikeMilligan Moriarty]] are definitely villains, cheats, and conniving con-men. They might ''begin'' with normally understood acts of villainy like scheming to cheat the innocent [[Creator/HarrySecombe Neddy Seagoon]] out of his cash. But it spirals in strange sideways directions, like seeking to terrorize London with the threat of mysterious batter puddings being hurled out of nowhere, just ForTheEvulz.
55	[[/folder]]
56
57	[[folder:Tabletop Games]]
58	* In ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'', Yu-Shan "auditors" (who are more like criminal prosecutors) prefer to render many verdicts instead of just one. Therefore, it is not uncommon for the audited person to be both greatly punished ''and'' greatly rewarded, for different acts, at the same trial.
59	[[/folder]]
60
61	[[folder:Video Games]]
62	* In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'', as the cold war between mages and templars escalates to grotesque levels, all templar leader Meredith can say is (paraphrased); "But ''they're'' doing it too!" as if that exonerates her. Basically, both sides want the other to stop committing war crimes before they'll stop committing their own.
63	* In ''VideoGame/{{KGB}}'', which is set during [[UsefulNotes/HistoryOfTheUSSR Communist Russia]], '''every''' character- including the protagonist- engages in some degree of shady behaviour. Usually to avoid being shot/tortured/[[TheGulag imprisoned]]. But to survive the finale, you must refuse to do an obvious atrocity ([[spoiler:murdering a comatose victim of brainwashing]]) and ''stick to'' that refusal, even as the BigBad lectures you about "duty". Obeying him just gets you permanently silenced.
64	* In ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'', the faction war amounts to this when it comes to the neutral parties. Though both sides are ostensibly said to be grey, the Horde has a far longer list of crimes than the Alliance, and is far less willing to work toward peace. So even if the Horde is attacking a neutral party, the Alliance's attempt to stop the Horde is treating as being just as bad.
65	[[/folder]]
66
67	[[folder:Webcomics]]
68	* In ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'', necromancer Tsukiko insists on seeing animated corpses as humans -- a mistake that ultimately leads to her death, when the wight drones she raised killed her at the command of their new master.
69	[[/folder]]
70
71	[[folder:Web Video]]
72	* WebVideo/{{Jreg}} takes jabs at advocates of [[TheHorseshoeEffect the Horseshoe Theory]] by portraying one this way; [[StrawCharacter Horseshoe Centrist's]] primary catchphrase is "The way I see it, there is no difference between [x] and [not x/x's antithesis]." Naturally, this extends beyond political ideologies and goes to very absurd territories, such as believing there's no difference between having civil rights and not having them, between reaching a destination and not reaching it, etc.
73	[[/folder]]
74
75	[[folder:Western Animation]]
76	* ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'': This is the crux of [[BigBad Equinox's]] character. The Lords of Order and Chaos chose him as a child to act as their avatar, ensuring a balance between the two forces. Unfortunately, the strain of the responsibilities drove Equinox insane and he became obsessed with applying his own mad view of balance on the world, which he applies utterly illogically and arbitrarily with no regard to context. He's introduced trying to execute a villain as his plans to rule the world would have disrupted the balance, whilst also executing the hero who tried to stop him. Then later trying to ensure another villain succeeds in causing a nuclear meltdown in a Russian city, because the villain's own village was destroyed many years earlier. He finally overthrows his former masters and tries to end the universe, so he can create a new one at perfect balance. He's finally defeated when Batman forces him to admit he is not at perfect balance himself, causing his ideology to come crashing down upon him.
77	[[/folder]]

Context Main / GreyAndGrayInsanity