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1* Why were the Androids of the main timeline much kinder than the ones of Future Trunks' timeline?˛** I don't think they were 'kinder', more just weaker than the ones in Future Trunks' timeline.˛*** That's not the case, as Trunks himself states that the Main Timeline's 17 and 18 are actually STRONGER than his versions of them.˛** I think it's because Goku is still alive. Remember the Goku of Future Trunks' timeline died long before 17 and 18 were activated and since the two were built for the sole purpose of killing Goku, they pretty much started to slaughter anyone else that stood against them. Since Goku is alive in the main timeline when 17 and 18 were activated, they decided to make a "game" by tracking him down.˛* Why doesn't King Cold seem to have [[OneWingedAngel an extra form?]] Both of his kids had at least four, and being their father he'd be at least close in power to them. If he had an extra form, I'd expect him to whip it out the moment he sees his [[WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged darling little princess]] get turned into ribbons. ˛** He doesn't have other forms, it's not a trait of Freeza's entire race, only he could do it. It's not even a proper transformation either, Freeza's final form is his real one and the others were created so that he could limit his power to control it better. King Cold doesn't have a problem controlling his power so he never needed to create weaker forms to limit it, he was at full power already against Trunks. Cooler doesn't count because he is a movie only character and doesn't follow the logic or rules of the anime. ˛*** There is no reason to believe that King Cold doesn't follow the same logic as Freeza, we know for a fact that Freeza's 4th form is actually his true form. It stands to reason that King Cold being of the same race also has the same base form. As for why King Cold didn't transform he simply didn't. Maybe he didn't think he'd have the time, maybe he thought he was a lot more powerful than he was. ˛*** Freiza stated that he created his forms to suppress his power, it's not something that his whole race can do, if King Cold could transform then he would have after seeing his son killed so quickly.˛*** He states that his Final Form is the form he was born in and that the forms before it were created to suppress his power. He did not say that his Final Form was unique to him or "created". Thus, we can safely assume that it is inherent in all members of his species. As for King Cold not transforming, Cold makes it clear he thought the only reason Trunks won was because of his sword. He never once thought Trunks was simply that powerful until Trunks effortlessly blocked his own sword and blasted a hole through Kold's abdomen.˛*** No we can't assume King Cold can transform as well unless he is stated to do so but he never did and no one ever said he could, Freeza's claim that he created his forms proves that only he does it and not his race because only he had trouble controlling his power, King Cold didn't.˛*** If that were true King Cold should have looked like Freeza's 4th form which again is the natural form for his species, instead of looking like Freeza's 2nd form. He clearly had the same issues with control that Freeza did, there is no other reason for him not to be in his base form.˛*** Frieza and Cooler inherited their appearance from their mother.˛*** It's pretty obvious King Cold was in his second form. As for why he didn't transform for his fight with Trunks, he probably just didn't think it worthwhile. Sort of a deconstruction of what happens when villains decide to toy with the heroes when said hero isn't in the mood to screw around. ˛*** While I agree that Cold was likely capable of transformation, there's no real reason to believe that Cold's form was his second form. Cold's preferred form resembled Freeza's second form, yes, but there's no hard or fast rule that says their forms have to follow the same pattern. Cold's form could have been his first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or seventy-third.˛*** But there is a real reason to believe it's King Cold's second form: Frieza has four forms. Frieza's 2nd form looks like King Cold's only shown form. King Cold is Frieza's father. Internal logic heavily suggests King Cold was not in his final form. Obviously, this is all still conjecture, but the argument described holds weight and gives reason to believe it. The truth is we'll never know for sure.˛*** Or maybe, just maybe, it's because unlike Frieza, King Cold can actually control the full scope of his power with ease, and simply has no need to transform.˛*** Why would Cold's real form look like one of Freeza's "fake" forms, as opposed to his true form?˛*** Why not? Just because the sleek ice-lizard like design is a standard doesn't mean there can't be exceptions. Hell, Freeza even states that he can choose what a form looks like, even if it's his natural form due to their bio-suit/bio-armor- take Ressurection F; he purposely chose to make Golden Freeza, well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin Golden]] in order to make a mockery of the super saiyan transformation.˛*** Considering his warnings about Beerus and Majin Buu, Cold is heavily implied to be wiser and more careful than Freeza. It could just be that Cold was being {{WrongGenreSavvy}}, and assumed Trunks would have simply killed him during the lengthy transformation process. ... then again, considering this is [[PragmaticHero Trunks]] we're talking about he was probably right. In which case, going for the sword was a pretty reasonable strategy given the information he had. He just didn't realize he was screwed regardless. If he ''could'' transform just imagine how screwed Earth would have been if he'd been fighting Vegeta or Goku instead. They probably would have flat out told him to do it before he even mentioned anything about it.˛˛* So why does Frieza's body get so much larger in his second and third forms if he created them to power down to a more manageable level?˛** They were more cumbersome than his First and True forms. In his first form, he's streamlined the bare minimum. In second and third, he handicaps himself with awkward builds to make it so he can't as easily use his increased power. Plus, Freeza is an utter sadist and loves to instill fear into his enemies, so it'd stand to reason Freeza would use Form over Function. ˛** Maybe they were like Ascended Super Saiyan, great boost in power but otherwise not very fast, his Xenomorphesque form was slightly fast but much more powerful, perhaps his final form compresses his power, focusing it.˛˛* Why were the Androids from Trunks' timeline weaker? Was that ever explained?˛** Simple. When Trunks went back to kill the Androids in his timeline, he was much, much stronger than he was when he initially left them. All that training, then getting killed and being brought back to life in the main timeline did wonders for him. They were probably just as strong as the main timeline androids, the difference was that Trunks was now strong enough to beat them.˛** ...yeah. I know. But that wasn't what I was asking about; I was asking why Trunks explicitly said several times that the current androids in the main timeline are so much stronger than the androids from his timeline.˛** It's never explained. There are plenty of possibilities though. Perhaps they don't REALLY have infinite energy and sixteen or so years of running wild had weakened them somewhat. My personal guess is Gero purposely weakened them, without Goku to pressure him he took his time in the hopes of getting them to a point where they could be controlled. Clearly, he failed in his endeavor.˛** I always thought that since in the Future timeline, Goku killed Freeza and his Father by using Instant Transmission and teleporting to their ship as opposed to what Future Trunks did and fighting them on Earth. Because of that, Dr. Gero obtained their data and was able to scale the androids accordingly.˛** I had assumed that seeing Trunks turn Super Saiyan freaked out Dr. Gero, who hadn't seen a Super Saiyan before, and instead of focusing that 3 years on modifying 17 and 18's personalities, he instead focused on improving their battle power to ensure they'd be more than a match for someone of Trunks' power level and just never got around to brainwashing them or whatever he did. So ironically, Trunks' interference made the Androids stronger than they would have been, but ultimately less of a threat because their personalities were mostly unchanged and they were never really evil to begin with.˛** In the manga, this is actually explained in a brief chapter touching upon Future trunks' past. In the future, the Androids were shown to play with their opponents. Nobody could really challenge them so they HAD to toy with their opponents to get any real entertainment. Then Future Gohan became an annoyance. Future Android 17 then says that in their last battle, he hadn't even used half of his maximum power. Cut to Gohan nearly crapping his pants in fear, as a Super Saiyan no less, and then cut to Trunks discovering Gohan's corpse. Years later, Trunks claims he is now on par with Gohan. Cut to Trunks waking up in a hospital bed, beaten to HFIL. He then agrees with his mother that Time Travel is the best option. Thus, we can assume that the Androids were not weaker but were just holding back to enjoy playing around with their vastly weaker opponents. Trunks' statement of the Future Androids being weaker is him simply taking after his father. Trunks was arrogant, cocky and vastly underestimated his opponents. He does that a lot, actually. He claims nobody could survive his ki attack that blew up Gero's lab, he assumes the Androids are stronger instead of accepting his weakness, he assumes he can match Cell and he assumes he has surpassed Vegeta with the Ultra Super Saiyan form. Trunks is pretty much just like his father except he isn't a royal pain in the ass.˛** There's also the fact they were created to fight Goku and the rest. In Trunk's timeline, the gang had no knowledge of an upcoming threat so any training wasn't as motivated or intense so they would have had more off time and wouldn't have gotten as stronger. Old Time Line Z-Fighters simple weren't as powerful as New Timeline Z-Fighters. Thus Old Timeline Androids were weaker than New Timeline Androids. ˛˛* How did Trunks dispatch Mecha Frieza so effortlessly? Trunks was, according to Gohan, similar to Namek Goku. Namek Goku was pretty close to Freeza, being only 25% stronger than him (120 million vs 150 million). And Mecha Frieza was stronger than Namek Frieza, to the point that he was confident he could match Namek Goku's power and maybe even win. So if the gap between Trunks and Mecha Frieza is this small, how in the hell did Trunks manage to do half of the things he did, like ''catch Frieza's Supernova?''˛** Did anybody see Freeza power up into the pinnacle of his power on Earth like he did on Namek?˛*** Being rebuilt as a cyborg (with half of his body being fully robotic) probably meant that Freeza no longer had a bulked up "100% power" form, and the description of him being stronger than before implies that the cybernetic enhancements allow him to utilize his full power without having to "hulk out".˛** Sensed power levels are ''notoriously'' unreliable, due to suppression ability, powerup abilities, and variance based on skill and tactics - not as bad as scouters, obviously, but still unreliable enough that their evidence can be discarded if it conflicts with reality.˛** Also, Trunks catching Freeza's Supernova is filler. In the manga, he actually kills him really quickly.˛** A better question is how Freeza was even killed. The guy survived the point-blank explosion of a ''planet.'' Yes, [[WeCanRebuildHim he was in terrible condition]], but that's mainly [[HalfTheManHeUsedToBe his torso being sawed off.]] I'd think a [[EarthShatteringKaboom Namek shattering kaboom]] would be more fatal than a really powerful sword.˛*** Trunks minced up Freeza and then blasted the bits with a Masenko for good measure. Freeza may have survived Namek exploding with him on it, but even with his incredible durability, he only survived because there was no one to finish him off afterwards. Besides which, Freeza is durable, but he can't regenerate. Maybe he did survive Trunk's attack, for a little while anyway, but he was still reduced to tiny pieces with no way to pull himself back together or otherwise recover from those injuries.˛*** Namek's explosion also isn't something you can reliably compare since Frieza blew it up by just destroying its core then letting nature take over as the planet became unstable. It's much different than say how Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta by firing an energy ball strong enough to destroy it in one go.˛** In the manga it's all Trunks taking him off guard and going full force while Frieza isn't. Trunks goads Frieza into attacking, lets him think he died in the blast while he charges his own, give Frieza a quick heads up while shooting an explosion at the ground, Frieza dodges by jumping up where Trunks is waiting to chop him in half. Then he turns Frieza into a pile of meat and incinerates it. ˛˛* It's one thing to say Goku is a bad father, but to say Vegeta was a better one? Come on. He could care less about either of his sons (present and Future) until the Future one was killed by Cell. Not to mention while they were training in the hyperbolic time chamber Trunks said that they didn't train together. A guy who was willing to let an infant die is a better father than a guy who told his experienced 11-year-old son with a hidden potential (and was the youngest person at the time to reach Super Saiyan AND master it) to fight?˛** And who says he was a better father? The reason him blowing up once Future Trunks is killed is treated as a "Hey, there may be something to this guy" moment is precisely BECAUSE the extent of the care he showed about his son was pride at Future Trunks' strength being near his own, yet here he is going PapaWolf and trying to avenge his son. Even so, he's still not exactly rewarded for his folly, considering he gets knocked the hell out and then Krillin criticizes how his senseless flurry doesn't help anything. And that's far from the first time the others rightly call Vegeta's crap in this saga, regarding Trunks or otherwise.˛** Vegeta does care about his sons (present and Future) frankly future Trunks to a nearly absurd degree. Starting with Future Trunks, Vegeta warms up to him fairly quickly. It makes some sense that Trunks worships Vegeta since Bulma apparently had much warmer and fuzzier memories of Vegeta even in that timeline than we are generally lead to believe. Vegeta however is affectionate enough by the end of the saga to rush Cell over Trunks who was physically his son but emotionally was much more Gohan's child than Vegeta's. We don't know much of the details of Bulma and Vegeta's relationship, especially early on. As in when did HE find out Trunks was his son. From what we learn from Future Trunks I doubt that Vegeta and Bulma were enough of an item (especially since he went into space immediately following that) that him coming back and finding her pregnant instantly clicked as "that's my son" not "Earth Woman got pregnant while I was away." Certainly by the time the Buu Saga comes along he's quite proud of and attached to his son. I'm not saying he's a better father than Goku, he just has a better habit of staying alive after having children but he's no where near the uncaring brute he's being portrayed as here.˛** I think it's important to note cultural differences, too. Vegeta was raised with Saiyan heritage. On Vegeta it was typical of families to send newborn babies into space. I doubt Saiyans have much in the way of fatherly affection. In regards to how Vegeta treats Trunks he is actually a far more attentive father than his cultural upbringing should have made him.˛*** On that note, we should also mention that Goku is socially unadjusted for the most part. Let's not forget that all of Dragon Ball was basically Goku not knowing, well, anything about human society as a result of being raised by a single old man in some desolate mountainside. Not that this excuses anything, I'm just not sure why anybody expected these two to be perfect fathers to begin with. At the least it seems they both try (Vegeta less so when Trunks was initially introduced, though you can argue that his earlier disregard for the infantile trunks is just him being conflicted over being humanized over time).˛** The truth is, neither Goku or Vegeta will be taking home any Father of the Year Awards, if you have fathers like Krillin and Gohan being better than them (yes, Gohan's pretty much of an OpenMindedParent in GT and GT isn't canon, but he's still better than both). Secondly, there are a few fans who would bash Goku's parenting skills in favor of Vegeta, when the truth is, neither of them are by any means perfect, both having many flaws with their parenting. ˛** Neither Goku nor Vegeta are father of the year material, that fact isn't in doubt. But between the two, Vegeta was at least around while Trunks was growing up, while Goku's HeroicSacrifice and subsequent refusal to return left Chi-Chi a single mother to raise not only Gohan, but also Goten who was born afterward. Vegeta also didn't leave everything to Trunks and gave him no choice but to rise to the occasion or else everyone on the planet would die.˛###Is there any source GT is not canon? Akira Toriyama never discarded it from canon. It could just be set in a different timeline like Future Trunks story. He is canon ;)˛%%%˛%% Bubbles and Gregory are filler-only characters, but the wish itself and King Kai remaining dead were in the main storyline, hence its placement here rather than on the Filler subpage.˛%%%˛˛* King Kai, Bubbles, and Gregory were killed in Cell's destruction of the Kai planet, same as Goku, yet they weren't revived when the wish to bring back all those killed by Cell was made. What gives?˛** Goku says King Kai could be revived but decided to stay dead in order to show him around. And apparently, people can decide whether to be affected by a wish or not (such as when Goku refused to return to Earth after the Namek saga)˛*** Not to mention being dead doesn't really change King Kai's situation much; he lives in the afterlife anyway.˛** The Eternal Dragons cannot affect beings more powerful than themselves who do not allow it; that's why they couldn't kill Nappa and Vegeta before they got to earth or bring Goku back to earth when he didn't want to be.˛*** More like they can't kill more powerful beings, but they can still resurrect them. Otherwise Vegeta wouldn't have been resurrected at the end of the Buu saga.˛˛* Vol 19, something's off about Trunks' after story. Cell's reason for coming to our timeline was because the androids were missing in his, right? But right before Future Trunks fights him, they have the following exchange.˛--> Cell: You can't even defeat 17 or 18, much less me˛--> Trunks: Oh? Then where are they now?˛--> Cell(shocked): !!˛--> Cell: ...You don't mean...You destroyed them?˛** In other words, Cell didn't learn the androids were missing until ''after'' he tried to kill Trunks and take his time machine. But why would he try to go back in the past unless he knew the androids were missing already? Why wouldn't he try to assimilate the weaker future androids? Can anyone say "Plot hole"?˛** The Time travelling story in whole. Get some Popcorn. The Original Timeline - Cell's Timeline - has Goku defeating Freeza and King Cold, then dying shortly later of a heart virus. Dr. Gero unleashes Androids 17 and 18 onto the world. They kill the Z Fighters, bar Gohan. Gohan survives for a while, trains Trunks, but later dies. Bulma, builds a Time Machine to find a way of preventing everything that has happened. Trunks goes back in time to an Unseen Timeline...˛** Unseen Timeline: and arrives upon the arrival of Freeza and King Cold. Trunks defeats them, and tracks down Goku, giving him the antidote/cure to the Heart Virus he later develops. He returns to HIS Timeline, but returns to help the Z Fighters deal with Androids 17 and 18. At some point, they discover Gero's secret lab, and find the blueprints to 17 and 18. Trunks returns to his time...˛** Cell's Timeline and destroys the Androids with the shut down device. A year later, Cell appears while Trunks is getting ready to go back one last time to tell them of his success (why he took so long is hard to understand). Cell kills him and goes back in time...˛*** It seems that it takes a long time for the time machine to charge up.˛** Main Timeline: Cell winds up creating a new timeline to 1 year before Trunks arrives and begins to develop/grow. 1 year later, FUTURE TRUNKS arrives (Cell's arrival does nothing to prevent Trunks' previous Time Travelling). But because of Cell's presence in this timeline, it is not the Trunks from Cell's Timeline arriving to the Unseen Timeline, it's a different pair. This turns out to be the Main Timeline and Future Trunks' Timeline. Future Trunks is identical to the Trunks from Cell's Timeline so far. Everything you see in the manga/anime happens, including Cell killing Future Trunks. After Cell is defeated, and Trunks is resurrected, he returns to his timeline, aware of Cell's arrival in his own timeline...˛*** Wait a moment: If the Main Timeline and Trunks' timeline were the same until Trunks arrived, there should be a fully developed Cell when Trunks' Androids started their rampage. If that's the case, how does Trunks' timeline even exist? The main Cell was smart and powerful enough to absorb the Androids, and in the main timeline he had both the Z-Warriors and significantly more powerful Androids to deal with. When the Androids kills the Z-Fighters, Cell should've absorbed them and thus ending the series right there.˛*** Time travel is tricky but the series explains this fairly clearly. First there are at minimum four universe. Trunks comes from the "Prime" universe. Here the Z-Fighters died fighting the androids. Trunks travels to the past, to help with the battle vs the Androids. It splits here in two. In one universe, Prime +1, the Z-Fighters discover the off switch and use it. Trunks travels to the future and uses it to kill the Androids. Without the extra training however Imperfect Cell kills him and travels to the past. In our Universe Trunks trains in the ROSAT defeats the Androids and Imperfect Cell. Main Cell doesn't exist. He was killed by Trunks and Krillin while he was just an embryo. If you stop thinking about it as time travel and instead start thinking of it as curiously similar alternate realities it'll hurt your head less.˛** Future Trunks' Timeline: But first things first, he beats the shit out of 17 and 18. When Cell arrives, presumably that exchange happens.˛*** In Cell's Timeline, 17 and 18 are dead. In Future Trunks' Timeline, they are dead. In the main timeline, Cell gets killed. In the Unseen Timeline, they are presumably gone, and Cell's fate is unknown. Hope that answered the question somewhere.˛*** Much simpler explanation: Cell knew 17 and 18 were missing, but his shock was that Trunks defeated them. Understandable since previous data showed Trunks overwhelmed by a single android.˛*** No. It's hard to tell from the quote above, but the manga page shows that Cell clearly did not know 17 and 18 were missing until Trunks told them. When Trunks told him, he tried to sense them (which doesn't make sense in and of itself, but...), realized they were missing and reacted with shock. If he already knew they were missing, he wouldn't have bothered searching.˛*** Like you say, Cell trying to "sense" the androids makes no sense. But even if he found out first from Trunks the androids were missing, so what? Cell could've been spying on Trunks for any number of reasons, only to be called out by Trunks, learn of the androids' destruction, then decide to steal the time machine.˛*** Except Trunks calls out Cell by accusing him of planning to kill him (Trunks) and go back in time to absorb the androids, to which Cell is like "How did you know?" Which brings us back to the opening question. The whole Trunks after-story is one big "Huh?"˛*** ''the manga page shows that Cell clearly did not know 17 and 18 were missing.'' Wrong. Panel 1: Cell tells Trunks that he's too weak to even defeat the Androids ("You can't even defeat 17 or 18, much less me"). Panel 2: Trunks asks him "Oh? Then where are they now?". Panel 3: Cell is shocked ("!!"). Panel 4: Cell asks "You don't mean... ''They're missing because'' you destroyed them?". There's nothing that shows he didn't know they were destroyed, and he's not shown "sensing" them.˛*** From that, it seems he knew they were missing, but did ''not'' know they had been destroyed. So his shock is because they were destroyed by Trunks, not because they were missing.˛*** The reason why Cell eats Ginger Town is because he transforms after absorbing an amount of power (stated when Piccolo and Cell met) so why didn't Cell try and absorb Trunks who is at that point more powerful than 18 and 17 combined?˛*** No, ''Cell can transform only by absorbing 17 and 18''. Absorbing others simply makes him stronger, but he was too weak to manage to absorb Trunks. Or, if you're referring to the timeline where Cell killed Trunks and stole his Time Machine, well... the manga never showed what happened, so maybe he DID absorb him.˛*** Nope. In a flashback scene from the anime, Cell kills Trunks by choking him with his tail (rather silly but whatever) and goes into a cocoon state in order to travel in the time machine which was too big for him. He also lowers his power as a result of this transformation; this is why he has to absorb Ginger Town among other populated areas to get enough power to absorb the androids. Even if he had absorbed Trunks, he would have lost the power immediately in order to cocoon himself.˛*** He didn't choke him, he straight up broke his neck. But even if he did absorb him, he likely would've lost the power boost when he returned to an egg.˛** Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I remember it being mentioned in the series that Cell could sense the Androids. It was probably not through ki, though. It must be some device or something the Androids had which made it possible for Cell, and only Cell, to detect them.˛*** Nope. He has to look for them the old-fashioned way, otherwise he wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble of blowing up islands to flush 18 out of hiding.˛˛* Vol 14, Piccolo sees Kami looking down on the world, calls peeping on the lower world "an undignified hobby" and says Kami will lose that ability once they merge. Except they don't, and Piccolo takes over as resident voyeur. Either Toriyama forgot he wrote that line or Piccolo was wrong, or both.˛** Kami "lost" that ability because he is no more, hence he can never look down anymore.˛** Granted, Piccolo becomes substantially mellower when he fuses with Nail; when he fuses with Kami, it gets even worse, as he is shown to be shell-shocked at the destruction of the Lookout by Gotenks and Buu as Kami would if such was the case. As such, it can be concluded that Piccolo is just boasting at that moment.˛˛* Android Saga. Right before they enter Dr. Gero's cave, Krillin divides the six Senzu beans between himself, Piccolo and Tien. After the Battle Royal (No Match for the Androids), Krillin again has all six Senzu beans.˛** That may be an AdaptationInducedPlotHole. I don't remember the anime but in the manga, I clearly remember that the Senzu are divided, and a panel shows his hand holding only two beans. He probably recovered the other four from his friends' bodies.˛˛* Why didn't Goku just teleport back to Earth before Cell exploded?˛** Because he was feeling mentor-y and wanted his son to take over for him in guarding Earth. He persisted in this philosophy well into the Buu saga.˛** '''Real Reason:''' Toriyama wanted Goku out of the way, to officially pass the torch to Gohan. Hence - Goku go boom.˛*** '''Plausible In-Story Reason:''' He had to stay to make sure Cell didn't have any tricks that would allow him to return to Earth before The Boom (Turns out, he did.)˛*** Not that Goku could do anything about it after the explosion...˛** Because he forgot to think of that in the middle of apologizing to King Kai for taking Cell there.˛** Goku's an IdiotHero anyway, what makes you think he'd actually bothered to think that far ahead? Using Instant Transmission was an absolute last resort (which didn't even work), and he didn't even have a planet in mind when he decided to use it. (Seriously, that's pretty stupid--why not go to some deserted planet, or even the ruins of Namek or the middle of space?) Throw in King Kai distracting him, and BOOM! before he has a chance to think about grabbing King Kai and zipping back to Earth.˛*** Goku can teleport only to places he senses ki, so he can't 'port to a lifeless location. Considering he got only King Kai and his 2 pets, besides himself, killed, it was actually wise on Goku's part. Then again, he still could've saved them, as well as himself, if he had just moved with a little urgency.˛*** Well, to be fair, Goku only had ''just'' enough time to tell King Kai that the little planet was the only place he could think of sending Cell to. Immediately after that, Cell blew up. Even if Goku had the power to teleport himself, King Kai and the animals off, he would still need some time to find somebody else to teleport to; the closest being with ki off the planet would probably be Enma Daio, at the other end of Snake Way.˛*** What's stopping him from just going back to Earth?˛*** He'd have to grab King Kai and search for a familiar ki back on Earth (ie, Gohan and co) and teleport in...five seconds. Granted, if he hadn't paused to yammer, but ''immediately'' ran to King Kai to teleport him off, he might just have made it.˛*** The anime added in the dialogue, in the manga Cell explodes straight away when they arrive on King Kai's planet.˛*** Which still doesn't explain why Goku wasted time talking to Gohan and the other before teleporting Cell away. If he had skipped that, he would have had time to save himself, King Kai and his pets before Cell exploded.˛˛* Ok, where are Babidi and Majin Buu in the future Trunks alternate timeline? They definitely should have appeared at that point (and presumably killed off the human race.)˛** Given that he was gathering ki on weak (as far as he knew) old Earth in the primary timeline, it can be assumed that he needed to gather ki from nearby Buu's cocoon. In Future Trunks' timeline, most of the strongest people are dead, except a weaker Gohan and Trunks, who combined don't have enough to unleash Buu and ki-less androids. Presumably, Babidi keeps a few probes on Earth or something and came by in the main timeline because there were enough strong people to fuel Buu's unleashing. Not enough strong people in Future Trunks' timeline, so no Babidi, who is presumably still waiting over there.˛** This is the plot of ''[[VideoGame/DragonBallZBudokai Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai 2: Another Road]]''.˛*** There's bound to be timelines out there were Babidi and Buu did succeed in wrecking the planet. But given the loss of the DBZ warriors and the population being driven underground in Future Trunks' timeline, it's possible Babidi never did get enough energy to revive Buu or was killed (either him or Dabura/Spopovich/Yamu) by the androids before succeeding.˛*** The Androids just are not killing Dabura outside of the sneak attack from HFIL. Dabura's power is supposed to be comparable to Perfect Cell.˛*** There are bound to be timelines where Dabura never joined Babidi, as well as timelines where Dabura killed the Androids. The multiverse is infinite.˛*** Babadi was probably killed by the androids for the fun of it, meaning no Majin Buu to wake up and deal with. With Babadi dead, Dabura would have no reason to hang around. And then there's the whole issue of whether or not android ki and be absorbed.˛*** It was revealed MUCH later that after dealing with Future 17 and 18, Future Trunks easily took care of Future Babadi and Future Dabura preventing Future Majin Buu's resurrection.˛˛* Dr. Gero is shocked when Goku and Vegeta go [=SSJ=]. The explanation given is that Dr. Gero wasn't monitoring them in space. But wait, didn't Trunks go [=SSJ=] on earth in his fight with Freeza? Goku too?˛** He never ''saw'' Goku do it, and he certainly never saw Vegeta doing it. He probably thought it was an ability unique to that Trunks person.˛** Dr. Gero explicitly states that by the time Goku went off to space he had ended surveillance, since he had formed a method of calculating the future rate of everyone's power increase and considered further surveillance unnecessary and a potential security risk.˛*** Honestly its a bit of a plot hole. Dr. Gero claims he stopped surveillance of them at that time and I can only imagine he must not have programmed his computer to notify him if something truly outrageous happened but Cell has Freeza and King Cold cells in him, clearly the surveillance was still active at least until Trunks vs Freeza and I doubt surveillance stopped right then which is what it would take.˛*** Gero stopped surveillance, but the computer kept working on the Cell Project. The bugs that collect DNA are part of that project and have nothing to do with Goku surveillance project. This is shown in the anime by having two unique models of insects: one presumably with a camera, and the other that gathers DNA from strong fighters.˛*** Surveillance and DNA gathering might've stopped when Frieza unleashed his attack because the bugs would've been destroyed in the process.˛˛* How is it possible for '''nobody''' to figure out Trunks is Vegeta and Bulma's Child? He comes from the future, Goku is dead due to an illness, Gohan is too young to conceive anyone, and no other Saiyans have appeared from space. He has the same hair color as Bulma (manga), he is wearing a CC jacket, and has a time machine. They both live in the same house. Even the two of them don't put it together until they see him again -- despite having a lookalike baby! How can people be this clueless? It just bugs me.˛** I assume you mean after Trunks reappears when the Androids emerge. Up to that point, only Goku and Piccolo knew Mirai Trunks' name and origins. And once Piccolo blurts out his name, Vegeta rapidly puts two and two together (and bashes himself for not seeing it sooner). Also, don't forget Vegeta thought he was lying about being a Saiyan. Not to mention everyone was too busy acting on Trunks' warning (training and such) to put much thought into Trunks' lineage.˛*** Right, like it is the *name* that makes it obvious. Sure, they are in training, but I'm sure they take a break to eat every once in a while. Dude comes from the future and nobody spends a few minutes to speculate? Not to mention Bulma isn't training, and she is supposed to be pretty clever -- yet she didn't figure it out, given she is shocked when Goku knows his name.˛*** Well, keep in mind one important fact: With the exception of Bulma, they're all single-minded idiots. Bulma probably never gave it a second thought until Mirai Trunks reappeared.˛*** But was anyone really ''trying'' to figure out Trunks' "identity"? He's a heroic young Saiyan from the future, apparently Future Bulma sent him back in time, there we go. They were more worried about the whole "all of you died in my future" message he'd given them, and without the benefit of hindsight, Trunks could've come from anywhere: yet another long-lost Saiyan who'd arrived on Earth, Future Bulma's attempt to artificially concieve or clone a Saiyan using Goku or Gohan's DNA, a younger child that Goku and Chi Chi had before he died (Goten didn't exist yet, so Trunks could've been Gohan's younger brother as far as they knew - remember, kids in real life don't always look like their parents, and who knows how YouGottaHaveBlueHair genetics works), and so on. For what it's worth, a lot of non-spoiled fans at the time were surprised, and they had a better perspective on the mystery than the characters themselves.˛*** "Gohan is too young to conceive anyone"? I wouldn't really agree with that if you catch my drift.˛** Gohan is ''ten years old'' at most when Trunks first appears with his warning of the future, man! He's still a child!˛*** He's 10 chronologically at the end of the Cell Saga, making him ''7'' when Trunks comes back with the warning.˛*** Which makes it even ''worse''!˛*** That's in the ''present''. That has nothing to do with how old he is ''in the future''.˛** On the other hand, with the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in play, Gohan could have potentially gained quite a few years on Bulma (or any other sexually mature female with genetics conducive to purple-haired quarter-Saiyans) over the 20 years period in question. Trunks himself could have spent a significant amount of his childhood in there, as well. Who knows how many generations a Saiyan eugenics program could go through under the right circumstances. Not to mention other possibilities the Dragonballs present (like artificially ageing Gohan to his peak condition or discovering/transporting to Earth any long-lost Saiyan foot soldiers that may have been off-world when Planet Vegeta blew up in hopes of bringing them back from effective extinction.) Sure, if you get hung up on his parentage, the mystery solves itself, but if you don't actually care that much (as most of them didn't), then it's the warning that captures your attention. ˛** The reason they didn't figure it out, despite having a look-a-like baby is because it's quite a leap to assume that just because your baby has the same eye and hair color as the strange time-traveler from the future, that your baby is him as an adult; and like another Troper said, before Mirai Trunks' return, only Goku and Piccolo knew who he really was. They ''may'' have speculated where this guy came from, but it must've happened off-screen.˛** Did we really have time to discuss where Trunks came from? Once he defeats Cold and Freeza, Trunks then takes the group where Goku would land, and shortly after, spilled the beans to Goku as to where he came from. That happened the episode after he killed Freeza and Cold.˛** I was always under the impression that only Goku and Piccolo knew that Trunks came from 20 years in the future. To the rest of their allies, he could have come from ''any'' point in the future. Therefore, his resemblance to either Bulma or Vegeta could be seen as coincidental and various (incorrect) theories could be made regarding his parentage. ˛˛* Why did Bulma go to all of the effort of inventing a time machine for Trunks when it would have been much easier to build another spaceship and send him to Namek and use their balls. Three Wishes: Move/Destroy the Androids, Bring Piccolo/Kami Back, Bring Gohan or Vegeta Back. Much better than just saving the lives of some alternate versions of some people you never really knew, isn't it?˛** First off, Namek was destroyed and nobody knew where "New Namek" was. When Goku needed the Namek Dragon Balls at the end of Buu saga he had to go ask Kaio to find them.˛** Secondly, moving or destroying the androids won't work because it's established that the dragons cannot affect someone stronger than they. In that case bringing back Piccolo/Kami or any of the others is fruitless because they'll just get killed again. Trunks did say he went to the past to find out how to kill the androids. He could have wished them back ''after'', but again there's many limitations: only one person at once, or a one-year limit, or previously resurrected people can't be brought back again, etc. Why waste time on dead people with a middling chance of resurrection when you have an entire world to rebuild?˛** I have to agree. While Gohan was shown as being strong enough to handle a SINGLE android, he was far more powerful than any of the other dead fighters, and since Goku died of a heart disease (which technically falls under 'natural causes', which was one of the can't-do-it rules of resurrection) bringing back the I-get-powerful-stupidly-fast fighter was out of the question.˛*** Nothing stops them from building a spaceship later when the world has stabilized a bit, anyway.˛*** No, it doesn't put that out of the question. Future Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien and Krillin are all dead. It's mentioned that Other World is inclined to encourage fighting/training as is shown with Goku, Yamcha etc. Presumably they would have done the same as mainstream, getting more powerful. Even if they didn't, they have 3 adult Super Saiyans among them, and as canon time shows, the dead can have one day on Earth. Gohan could handle the Androids on a 1v1 scale, surely with Goku and Vegeta and would be done quickly. So what the heck, Z-Fighters?˛*** Well to be fair, Vegeta was almost certainly in Hell, and you don't get training in Hell in DBZ. And as mentioned, Goku died via natural causes and the dragons can't, or won't, revive someone who dies via natural causes. So at best, they could wish back Gohan, Piccolo, and the humans. Of course, wishing back Piccolo would have done it as he could then fuse with Kami and wipe the floor with the androids.˛** All they had to do was wish that Dr. Gero (who wouldn't be stronger than Shenron or Porunga) never went into robotics or becomes good or any other wish that would prevent him from creating the rest of the androids.˛*** That makes no sense. ''When'' have the dragons been shown to retroactively alter things?˛*** Also Shenron and Porunga are only as strong as their creators - Kami/Dende Guru/Namek Elder. Dr Gero is at least as strong as Freeza; so no, the Dragons couldn't directly affect him in any way whatsoever.˛*** It's actually an interesting question, Krillin wishes for the self-destruct bombs to be taken out of the Androids and there is no reason to believe that the Androids consented which is the actual limitation, not the power.˛*** On the other hand, it's plausible that with a time machine, Trunks could have gone back to before Gero was all that strong (or even born) and make the wish well in advance. This, of course, opens up all sorts of timey-wimey problems, like a Shenron that prevents Gero from excelling in robotics (only to make some previously unknown college rival the new big bad) of the future).˛*** I'd guess this is the biggest reason. The more you alter the past, the bigger the risk of the future changing dramatically.˛** Trunks later admits (right after finding Cell) that his goal was just to find out the means to destroy the androids by watching the DBZ warriors fight them, or failing that to bring Son Goku with him to the future. What I've gotta wonder is why he didn't get Shenlong to make him a new shutdown controller for the androids and use that to immobilize+ destroy them in the future. Or get Past Bulma to make him one, but I guess by that point he was already strong enough to take on the androids on his own (who were weaker in his timeline than in Goku's).˛*** In the timeline where Cell killed him, that's what happened. He went to the past, got the remote, went back to the future, used the remote, and then Cell kills him, since he didn't go through all that extra training. AllThereInTheManual.˛** Even if they ''did'' know where New Namek was, how were they going to get there? It would have taken more than 4,000 years to reach Old Namek with the fastest human spaceships, according to Bulma, and the only ships that went any faster that were on Earth were Goku's leftover space pod, which Dr. Briefs modified, and Kami's ship. None of those were on Earth anymore when the Androids showed up. Even the pod Goku returned in was wrecked when he landed it. So, strange as it sounds, it might actually have been easier for Bulma to build a time machine than a spaceship.˛˛* Okay, the timelines thing with Trunks. If he can go back to his own future to kill Cell, then his timeline is stable. But he kills Cell before he can go back in time in the first place, the Cell saga never happens. So we've got Cell in the future, dead. Cell in the present, dead. If it was possible for Trunks to get back to his own timeline, then how could he kill Cell before Cell went back, with the powers he gained training to fight Cell-in-the-past? To add yet another complication, this troper has also heard the interpretation of onscreen events as Cell killing Trunks to steal the time machine before he can go back the first time, but Trunks kills Cell before Cell can kill pre-travel future Trunks and get the time machine, but if he hadn't he shouldn't be in the past. but since he did, Cell shouldn't be in the past, so [[TimeyWimeyBall oh no I've gone cross-eyed]]. To summarize: Two timelines are missing a Trunks, at least one timeline is missing a Cell, and neither Trunks nor Bulma actually knows how time travel works, do they?.˛** Because the timelines have already been set and can't be altered. At this point, a third timeline had been created (where the main Cell came from) and couldn't be written out of existence. Trunks himself stated that what happened in other timelines couldn't affect the other ones, as we see him and Krillin destroy present Cell, yet the main Cell still exists. When he returns to his future, the events in the main timeline haven't altered his, further confirming his statements.˛** There are three independent timelines. There is the main one, there is a second one where Cell kills Trunks and goes back in time into the main timeline (ultimately becoming perfect Cell), and there is a third one where future Trunks goes back in time into the main timeline, then returns and kills the Cell of his timeline before he can steal the time machine from him. The main timeline's Cell was killed before he was even born (lol aborted). All timelines are independent; changing something in one doesn't affect anything in the other ones, so everything is accounted for.˛*** Well, there are actually four timelines. The one you didn't mention was the one that would've been the main timeline if Cell didn't kill Trunks and take his machine to the main timeline. In the fourth timeline, future Cell wasn't present. They found the blueprints for the androids in Gero's lab and managed to destroy the androids of that timeline. Then that future Trunks went to the future, deactivated the androids, destroyed them, and was later killed by Cell before he could go back to the present to alert everyone of the good news. What confuses me, however, are two things: The alternate present Cell and alternate present 16. What if they ''didn't'' destroy the Cell of that timeline? Not knowing of Cell's existence, they'd have no reason to destroy the supercomputer building Cell nor Cell himself because they didn't know about them; Hell, they didn't even know about the hidden bunker below the lab. In 20 years or so, he'd appear and everyone would be fucked. Not to mention the whole conflict with Majin Buu that might possibly happen before Cell is even complete. Then there's 16. Was he just not present in that timeline? I doubt that he would've just sat back and allowed 17 and 18 to get destroyed and the dude was stronger than a fully powered future Imperfect Cell. The only character that would've stood a chance is Piccolo after fusing with Kami and the only reason Kami even agreed to do it was because he sensed future Cell, who wasn't present in the alternate present timeline. Did future Cell's presence somehow cause Gero to create him? That makes me wonder about just how similar the alternate present timeline is to the main timeline. Future Cell's presence could've somehow influenced Gero's decisions in regards to how powerful to make 17 and 18 and the creation of 16 (or how powerful to make him if he was going to make him anyway as a result of being affected somehow by Trunks' time traveling). Present Cell could've possibly have been much stronger than his future counterpart if allowed to grow.˛** Just because Bulma invented the time machine, doesn't mean she's aware of all of the properties of time-travel before the maiden voyage. Trunks was even concerned about inadvertently causing his parents not to get together. It's likely they only understood the whole split-timelines thing after Trunks had returned to the future and nothing had changed.˛˛* Where was Cell hiding Seventeen and Eighteen, anyhow? He's seen vomiting Eighteen out near the end of the Cell/Gohan fight, and she's totally intact. I know both androids are ninety pounds soaking wet, but Cell wasn't so big that he had enough room for two human-sized secret compartments, even if you assume they were curled up into very tight fetal positions. I don't know, maybe he could have spontaneously digested Seventeen to make room for Eighteen, but even then it's still a stretch.˛** Don't forget that when Buu absorbed people, they shrank. It might be the same, especially since Cell was designed EXPRESSLY to absorb these two individuals.˛** That's exactly what this troper always assumed. Seventeen was disassembled, and Eighteen was meant to be used relatively intact. And may have been usable the other way around, had he absorbed them in a different order. If you think it's a stretch, just remember: [[RuleOfCool Cell doesn't make much sense anyway]].˛** Another point is that even if he could fit them in his body, his whole top half was blown off in the Cell Games. He could regenerate, but unless he could extend his capabilities to the androids (who were partly mechanical?), they should have died at that point, depriving him of his main source of power.˛** Except that "androids" is a bad translation. The Japanese word means something more like "artificial being" than "robot". They were both human before, Gero just enhanced them. They were absorbed on the cellular level. Of course, this brings to mind the question of how #18 was coughed up at all...˛*** Obvious cyborgs are obvious. Anyway, indeed, 18 should've been coughed up as sludge, and neither her nor 17 could've been left whole in there. In the normal perfect form, Cell is very lithe, only having any sort of bulk in its upper body. Only when it artificially bulks up, are its belly, throat and mouth big enough to hold an entire woman. If the process somehow reconstructed her, she should've come [[FanService naked]], and with no keratin parts, the outer layer of skin, or any fat at all - basically a [[FanDisservice bright pink, emaciated homunculus]] whose fragile skin would've been torn to ribbons by encountering the interior of Cell's esophagus, its ''teeth'' and the rough ground.˛*** And they should not come out fully clothed either. I guess even Cell needs fiber in his diet to keep him regular.˛** I always assumed that 17 and 18 were stored in Cell's body just like in Buu's; shrunken and fully intact. They were probably stored in his lower body which actually makes sense as he vomited her up (she was near the stomach). When Cell grew giant they grew proportionally (to their normal sizes) and the rest is history.˛** Why is everyone assuming that Cell had a 'stomach' - or even a digestive system - in the same way that humans do? At what point did Cell ever need to eat or drink? Gero was mad, yes, but he was also a scientist, which means he was a pretty smart guy. The need to eat or drink for sustenance (unless you're counting essentially sucking the blood and life energy of human victims) would have probably been one of the first weaknesses Gero made sure were ''not'' in Cell's biology. This ''is'' an alien, after all. Also, this is a world where entire houses and vehicles have been shown to be able to fit in capsules about the size of a horse pill. It's very possible that Gero somehow found a way to reverse the process and cause 17 and 18 to shrink inside Cell's body - and then that Gohan's hard shot to Cell's gut reversed that process, causing her to expand back to normal size in the body of Cell, which obviously could no longer hold her at that size.˛*** 17 and 18 were probably digested on the molecular level like everyone else, which would explain how she survived Goku blowing Cell's upper half off; when he regenerated, she regenerated too. As to where she was in his body when Gohan punched him really hard... well we don't really know just how well all of Gero's work lined up. Maybe 18 regenerating with Cell knocked something loose, and Gohan just forced her back out?˛˛* Why didn't Trunks just go one day back in time, get his past self to join him, and repeated the process many times over to create an army of Trunks to easily defeat the androids? Or, more seriously, gone back further and stopped Dr. Gero? Were his actions really optimal decisions?˛** For one, because the time machine only had so much juice in it and being jury-rigged from the start, he didn't know how many jumps he had. For another, he had no idea where Dr. Gero was hiding.˛*** Stopping Dr. Gero doesn't work because all the timelines are independent. Sure, he might save some other timeline from having to deal with the Androids, but it doesn't do anything to help his world.˛* Ok, this just bugs me. If Goku was able to grow his tail back in Dragon Ball, how did they get rid of the tails forever in Dragon Ball Z?˛** "Official" according to the Toriyama interview in the first issue of US Shonen Jump:˛-->The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming you into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great - you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages.˛** Toriyama bullshitting as usual (and ignoring the fact that Goku trained his tail to overcome that weakness), but there you have it.˛** AWizardDidIt?˛** By the same process which restored the moon between Roshi blowing it up and Piccolo blowing it up?˛*** The Wizard in either case being Kami (who permanently removed Goku's tail and restored the moon). More plausible in-story reason: Maybe once you are past puberty it is impossible to grow it back. Why Trunks, et. al. tails never grew back, I'm not sure. Cauterization? Maybe removing it at birth makes it less likely to grow back?˛*** Maybe half-Saiyan tails don't grow back? Vegeta didn't want the tail post-Freeza in case it interfered with becoming a Super Saiyan, and he's Just That Badass?˛*** Gohan's a half-Saiyan and his tail grew back like five times.˛*** Also maybe not all half-Saiyans are born with tails. Neither Trunks nor Goten has ever been shown with tails, maybe Gohan's the freak.˛*** According to the Toriyama interview in the very first issue of US Shonen Jump, "It seems that tails are a recessive genetic trait." Of course this is Toriyama we're talking about so he probably pulled it from his ass but there you have it.˛*** Kami did it, though he doesn't explain how. Since all those times he "lost" his tail in Dragon Ball he just got it cut/snapped (there is always a short stub remaining, after all), I assume when Kami got rid of it he removed it from the root. Like the difference between cutting a hair and pulling it out.˛** I think it grows back when they go Oozaru, which they stop doing when the Super Saiyan becomes an option.˛*** I fully expected the end of that sentence to be, "which they stop doing when the tail gets cut off." As a joke. Since they don't become Oozaru without a tail. Which means the above explanation doesn't work.˛*** I always assumed it stopped growing back after they reached a certain age.˛˛* If Cell had absorbed Android 18 first, would he have looked the same?˛** Probably, since 17-powered Cell didn't resemble 17 at all.˛*** Apart from the eyes and the ego (well, that was also from Vegeta. And Freeza. And King Cold.), it was not quite like 17. However, 18 was stated to be weaker, so maybe Cell would be slightly weaker.˛*** To my memory, it was 17 that constantly claimed 18 was weaker than 17. Now there does appear to be a ''slight'' difference, but I personally think it had a lot to do with ego and sexism rather than any profound difference in their power levels.˛*** Sexism? That's a bit of a reach. "No one is as strong as I am" is not a statement that cares about sexes. Also, let's remember. This is ''Dragon Ball''. Even the slightest-seeming difference in power is capable of leading to a [[CurbStompBattle curb stomp]].˛*** It's stated in the manga (on one of the original cover pages at the back detailing all of Gero's creations from #1-20) that #18 is slightly weaker than #17.˛˛* Why did Dr. Gero rebuild himself as an energy absorbing model, if the whole point of that model is that its weaker and easier to control than 17 and 18's model? Was he afraid he'd lose control of himself?˛** Remember just what Gero was doing remaking himself as an android. He ''disconnected his own brain and stuck it someplace else''. Given how intrinsically, instinctively linked one's body and brain are, it's entirely possible that controlling himself was the last thing Gero had to worry about.˛** I'd always assumed he was a poor tactician, and assumed that sucking energy out of enemies and sucking up energy beams was somehow better than unlimited energy.˛** Either that, or perhaps the process requires a young, strong body. The energy-absorbing model wasn't as powerful, but all Gero had to do was put his brain in it. He was a frail old man by that time, so he probably wouldn't have survived the implantation process used on 17 and 18.˛** On a related note, why did Gero make his robot body look the same age as his human body?˛*** Guess vanity isn't one of his many flaws. It's not like he was much better looking as a younger man.˛*** All in all, Gero may have been a super genius but he was still a complete idiot. What he ''should'' have done was build a body similar to Super 17 from GT - an Android with both energy absorbing and the infinite power generator he used on 17 and 18. This would have had the incredibly useful advantage of being able to collect the energy of the Kamehameha Wave using his hand... which was probably what he was going for with his current Android 20 body. He watched as his nemesis destroyed the entire Red Ribbon army using that attack - wouldn't it be poetic justice for him to absorb its energy and use it to destroy Goku in revenge?˛*** The problem with that idea is that he could never build something like that from scratch. He needed the help of Dr. Myu just to create a clone from hell of 17 that would be able to merge with the guy into Super 17. This also still doesn't address the problem of whether his body may have been too old and worn down to be able to withstand the infinite power generator and data chip experiments he used to turn the two rebellious teenage twins into 17 and 18 in the first place. Even if he could, and even if it was as simple as going through that and then taking up energy absorbing inlets, he would have to ''cut off his own hands'' to make that happen. It's easy to see what could go wrong there.˛*** Except he got infinite energy into a pure synthetic android already! Case and point: 16!˛*** [[AIIsACrapshoot Who turned out to be an animal-loving pussy]]. There's a reason Gero considered him a failure.˛*** Animal lover yes... [[ pussy]] [[ ?]] [[ hell no]]˛** I can think of a good reason: Cell. Think about it: Cell was designed to absorb 17 and 18 (or they were designed to be absorbed by Cell; I forget which). If he were like them, Cell might not see himself as perfect after absorbing both 17 and 18, and come after Gero as well. I guess he could make some alterations to his body to make his body useless to Cell or something, though...˛** Remember what kind of person Dr. Gero is. He's not just an OmnicidalManiac (for lack of a better phrase), but also is an utter sadist. It seems perfectly acceptable to consider that maybe he prefers slowly, agonisingly draining every last drop of energy from a victim before slaughtering them, thus allowing them to suffer such intense pain and fear that they wish for death to come to be far more satisfying than simply blasting them away in a fairly quick manner.˛** Another theory: he started making modifications to himself after he started on the Cell project but before he finished. So follow this timeline:˛*** Built Android 16.˛*** Started some modifications to himself.˛*** Kidnapped the two teenagers, dubbed them Androids 17 and 18 while he started his experiments.˛*** Realized some processes (like, say, the whole ''brain surgery'' bit) would require an extra pair of hands that he could fully control - thus, Android 19.˛*** Android 19 finishes Gero's modifications for him, thus making Gero Android 20 since 16-19 are already completed.˛*** Then Gero finishes Cell (who was technically #21 in the Android series)˛*** The kicker here: Gero was probably the only 'true' Android. 16 and 19 were humanoid robots, 17 and 18 were essentially fully human save for a few modifications (whatever generated their power as well as the self-destruct devices), and Cell was a bio-engineered chimera that was fully organic, with no robotic parts at all.˛** Here's an idea - note the difference between Cell when he first appears and when he attacks the androids for the first time - First he's having to rely on surprise to stand a chance against Piccolo, then he's become strong enough to regard Piccolo as a nuisance. 17 and 18 had great power, but it was a constant. Aside from learning new techniques, there was no way for them to improve. We only see the energy-absorbing models at their weakest. I think Dr Gero would have been a much, much worse threat had he been able to suck up a few cities before facing the Z Warriors.˛*** I just watched a video of the fight between Goku and 19 with some of the exposition cut out; at one point, before the virus starts taking it's toll on Goku, Gero worries that at the rate the fight's going, 19 will burn through his energy reserves before getting the chance to absorb Goku's energy. Between that, 19's poor performance against Vegeta despite having drained a good bit of Goku's power, and Gero's own poor performance against Piccolo, it seems Gero and 19's models are particularly inefficient at the whole energy absorption thing.˛** Another possibility is that Gero was anticipating 17 and 18 betraying him and some point and using ki attacks against him, and went the energy absorption route to ensure that he could get stronger if they betrayed him.˛˛* On the subject of Dr. Gero... Why did he design 19 the way he did? I mean, yeah, the fatness doesn't really impair his fighting ability or anything, but from a purely aesthetic point of view, you have to wonder what's going on in his mind to make him think "Hey, how cool would it be if I designed 19 to be really fat and have mime-like bleach white skin for no real reason?".˛** The guy looks like a freaky clown without the red nose, cheeks, and lips. [[MonsterClown Think about it.]]˛** No, he looks like a ChineseVampire...which are known to eat life energy/souls, or in this case, Ki.˛** Doesn't really explain the fatness though.˛** More space for batteries storage? It is supposed to be able to absorb lots of energy and it was the first model able to do that.˛** My impression of Gero is that he was something of a MadArtist; with the exception of 17 and 18, all of his androids were, at best, odd and quirky, and at worst, weird as hell. Another way to look at it is that Gero is essentially Toriyama's evil AuthorAvatar. ˛** More room for extra components. We don't exactly know what all 19 was supposed to be capable of.˛˛* It's a minor point but when Goku comes back to Earth in his spaceship after Trunks killed Freeza he '''A:''' says he knew what was happening, and would have used his new teleport technique to come back to earth immediately if he hadn't been sure Trunks could have handled it. '''B:''' explains his teleport technique as being able to move at the speed of light, quoting the actual speed (at least in the dub, don't know about the original) '''C:''' says he came back from training on a planet millions of lightyears away. As in, it would take millions of years to reach this planet at the speed of light, but his ship did it in a year or so. But even though the ship didn't make it to earth before Freeza did, he could've teleported and arrived in time. Calling ArtisticLicenseAstronomy seems a bit redundant at this point.˛** It's a minor DubInducedPlotHole (he says nothing about the speed of light in the original Japanese). He clearly moves distances and to places clearly impossible if he were simply zapping himself place to place like a laser. Easily handwaved by the fact that Goku's an idiot.˛** Yes, DubInducedPlotHole. Instant Transmission's original name is Instantaneous Movement. Both say the same thing: it's moving in a literal ''instant''; not at the speed of light, but infinitely faster. Additionally, all of the spacefaring ships in Dragon Ball Z move ''far'' faster than the speed of light (Kami's ship took seconds to get to Jupiter from Earth, despite light taking 35.7 minutes to cross that distance; that ship then took about a month to get to Namek, and Goku's ship was about 4 times faster). Instant Transmission moving at the speed of light would, honestly, be really shameful.˛˛* After Future Gohan loses his arm, why doesn't Bulma just build him a new mechanical one? She's supposedly a genius with technology.˛** Probably because the mechanical one wouldn't be able to shoot ki blasts. Also, maybe Future Gohan didn't want a mechanical arm because he'd feel he'd be disturbingly similar to the androids.˛*** And Bulma's surname is Briefs, not [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist Rockbell]], so the thing would probably be little more than the plastic mannequin hands we give to amputees.˛** Considering just how strong he and the androids were, the mechanical arm might as well have been made of custard. It would just slow him down.˛** And the writers thought it'd make him a HandicappedBadass to be fighting with one arm, regardless of whether or not Bulma could've given him an arm that worked.˛˛* How the hell did Dr Gero ''get'' the DNA of every single Z fighter and their enemies, including alien warlords and all?˛** His mosquito-like spybots took blood just like the real insect, and just like the real insect, they were too small for the characters to notice, especially when the characters were busy with the person trying to kill them. Freeza and Cold were likely bitten while they were on Earth and busy with Trunks.˛*** Which is weird because Dr. Gero says he ended surveillance shortly before Goku left for Namek.˛*** Some of his bugs were still around, though. Goku is shown destroying one after Gero tells him about them.˛*** Piccolo was actually the one to do that after Cell told him about them. As for Gero, I could've sworn he only intentionally stopped collecting data after Freeza and King Cold were killed.˛*** Gero personally stopped paying attention to the surveillance, but the computer independently kept working on the Cell Project.˛˛* How can Cell (or for that matter, Dr. Gero's computer) exist in their own timelines? Wouldn't the androids have blown up Dr. Gero's lab (especially considering Gero even warned them about that while he was being killed in those timelines)? You have to admit Cell is pretty dang lucky the androids didn't touch the place where they ''killed their first victim''.˛** Explained in the series. Cell's capsule and computers were in a basement bunker which 17 and 18 didn't know about. When they blew up the lab's ground level, the rubble covered the bunker's entrance, and so they left, thinking that they'd destroyed the entire thing.˛˛* In Trunks' timeline, where's Android 16 and Android 19?˛** It's implied that 19 is never built, and 16 never got activated by 17 and 18.˛˛* It was really tough on Goku with all his injuries during the fight with the Cell Jrs without aid from the Senzu beans. If only he had some way of '''TELEPORTING TO AN ALIEN WHO COULD HEAL HIM!!!'''˛** It takes a while for Dende to heal anyone. Plus in that time, the humans and Piccolo would bite it. Trunks and Vegeta are really the only ones who would've had a chance until Gohan got pissed. Plus y'know, as said many, MANY times on this page he's still [[IdiotHero Goku.]]˛*** Not to mention the chance of Cell tracking him and hurting Dende in some way, which would really screw up their revival plans.˛*** Remember, Gohan saw Freeza ShootTheMedicFirst on Namek and Goku got there right after. It seems that Cell has access not only to the genetic characteristics of the many fighters whose cells are in his body, but also their knowledge. Unless Cell spent some time watching film on Goku and Piccolo using the Kamehameha and SBC, respectively, there's no way he would have known how to do those particular attacks even with his respective power. Ergo - maybe he had Freeza's knowledge/memories of Dende, who was dead last time Freeza saw him, but whose HealingHands Freeza (and, by extension, Cell) would have recognized. Plus, as mentioned before, Senzu Beans take longer to grow, but they're much quicker.˛** Goku didn't want to be healed, he wants a dangerous situation presented to Gohan. You can even see Goku smiling while being beaten up by Cell Jrs. The more pressure put on Gohan, the more likely it is for him to show his hidden power. [[spoiler: Which is what Goku was holding out for for the entire Cell Games]].˛˛* King Cold at one point suggests Freeza just [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill destroy Earth]] but Freeza doesn't want to because he wants to make Goku suffer. Makes sense for him, but after Trunks kills him, why doesn't King Cold then destroy the Earth himself? Even if Trunks killed him before he could retreat, he would still have the planet destroyed.˛** Freeza actually did try the Planet Crusher on Trunks. Trunks ''caught it.'' King Cold wouldn't have fared much better.˛** Maybe King Cold didn't have techniques that specialized in blowing up planets. In any case, he seemed somewhat disinterested the entire time, almost like Freeza had dragged him out there.˛** Given he just saw Freeza get owned and in his own mind decided that it was the sword that enabled that, he probably figured his first priority is to separate Trunks from his sword (Which he weasels his way toward with the small talk, [[IAmNotLeftHanded not that Trunks cares]]) and ''then'' destroy Earth now that he "knows" he's depowered Trunks and can get away with it. Attempting to kill Trunks with his own sword was presumably just for irony's sake.˛˛* After Cell was destroyed and all his victims revived by the dragon balls, why didn't Android 17 search for his sister? He seemed very fond of her, and he must have wanted an explanation for why he was alive after being ingested by Cell. Turning into a vagabond that wanders around woods with nothing to do seems very out of character for someone like him.˛** Maybe he did in the 7 years between the Cell Saga and Buu saga, but he didn't want to live with her while she was with Krillin, and he didn't want to live with any of the other Z fighters either, so he just went off to live on his own.˛*** 18 doesn't immediately jump Krillin's bones, she dashes off back to Earth. About the only thing we know about her warming up to Krillin, falling for him, marrying him, and bearing his daughter is that it occurs within a seven-year TimeSkip. So it's likely they got back together at some point.˛˛* The third timeline (The one where Main Cell came from) confuses me. Like how did it even happen? We have the present universe and Future Trunks universe, so at which point was this third universe created?˛** What happened was there are 2 divergent timelines from the Future Trunks timeline. One, the one that leads to the main timeline, is where Trunks went to the past, killed King Cold, went to the future, came back three years later and fights the androids, then returns, only to be killed by Cell, who takes the time machine back to BEFORE teen Trunks returned to the future the second time. His presence there caused Trunks to become more powerful than when he got killed by Cell, he goes back to the future and kills Cell instead of being killed by him. Make sense?˛** Timeline 3 is basically the "original" timeline 2. Apparently, there are somehow 2 outcomes to Trunks' second trip to the past. One is that they somehow find a means to deactivate the androids instead of outright defeating them. That is timeline 4. That Trunks returns to timeline 3 and does the same to his androids. However, there was no extensive training so he wasn't strong enough to defeat the Cell of that time. Cell kills him and takes his time machine to timeline 1 (the main timeline). But because timeline 3's Cell went back to timeline 1 (to a time BEFORE Trunks initially arrived), it changed the entire flow of that timeline to where Trunks would need to train to become strong enough to defeat the androids and Cell in his timeline (timeline 2). Basically, Cell preempted his own demise in Trunks timeline by forcing him to get stronger. Going by how it is explained, it makes it seem as though timeline 4 existed before timeline 3. But because the Trunks we know came from timeline 2 and returns to that timeline, timeline 3 is considered the divergent one. A convoluted mess, I know.˛˛* How did Gero get the DNA from Frieza and King Cold to put in cell? he clearly stated he had ended the surveillance and DNA gathering before they went to Namek.˛** He ended surveillance of Goku specifically and didn't follow him into space. As I seem to remember, whatever he was using to get the DNA caught notice of Freeza and King Cold's arrival, went "Hey, those guys are strong, better grab 'em." and did so.˛˛* After fusing with Kami, why didn't Piccolo re-power the Dragon Balls? It's established that Kami knew how and that Piccolo had all his memories. Not to mention, at that point Piccolo was (obviously) much more powerful than Kami had been, as well as surpassing all the other living Namekians. Shenron would have become stupidly powerful at that point.˛** He can't. For some reason, he loses the ability to create and power the Dragon Balls once he re-fuses with Kami. It's not just about memories or knowledge, there's also some innate power required which Piccolo doesn't have. Possibly because he's a clone of the original Piccolo and not the 'real other half' of Kami.˛** I suspect that the reason is that you have to be good to create Dragonballs. Of the four sets, we're aware of one was created by Guru who is undeniably a good guy. Kami expelled his evil, which became Piccolo, and was also pure good. Dende again about as good as you can get. We don't know much about Moori (the elder Namek who presumably made the Dragonballs that now exist on Namek) but he's portrayed as being good. It's possible that Piccolo was sufficiently evil that he simply can't.˛*** Except that the only reason Kami was willing to merge with him, even in such dire circumstances, is that Piccolo ''wasn't'' evil anymore.˛*** Kami was willing to merge because he sensed Cell and thought Cell was sufficiently evil. Good and evil in Dragonball is incredibly subjective to the point of absurdity. To give the perfect example Vegeta. Even if you want to count him as having been evil prior to the Freeza saga instead of a slave doing whatever it took to survive the most powerful being in the universe instead of Piccolo who was evil because he wanted to be you still have to look at the Buu Saga. Him giving his life as penance for his sins and to save the world wasn't good enough to get him into heaven. However less than a day later he was sufficiently good because he what? Fought Kid Buu? We know the universe thought he was good at that point because the Dragon Balls brought him back. ˛** It's also possible that he could have done it if he wanted. Fusing with Kami was sufficient to "turn them off" so to speak because the being that created them was gone now. He might very well have been capable and just didn't. It's not like they waited weeks or years, Dende was there and had the balls up and running in like six days.˛** He had other priorities like finding first form Cell and finding out what he was up too. Then he was nearly killed by Cell. Then there was preventing Cell from absorbing 17 and 18, etc. He didn't think about creating new Dragon Balls until Goku mentioned his intention to revive all those killed by Cell back to life. He also wasn't Pure good like Kami was so it was unlikely he even could make them. That is why Goku eventually went to New Namek.˛** He also spends a lot of time on the frontlines, meaning he has a good chance of getting killed. In that situation, it would be better to have the MacGuffin device depending on someone who is never on the frontlines being alive.˛** And lest we forget, he actually was a MacGuffin before the change happened. If he/Kami died, the Dragonballs are rendered useless. Piccolo knew it was wise to not appoint himself the new Guardian of the Earth, because...that'd just put him back on square one where if he dies, there go the Dragonballs.˛*** Two problems with that. First, at the time he was the in the top three most powerful beings in the universe. Sure it lasts all of a few hours but killing him wouldn't be difficult at all. Cell and Android 16 can both sense energy as well. If I have to choose between Picollo the super-powered Namek and Dende the kid with the healing touch I'm really banking heavily on Cell's arrogance (a good bet) and Cell's stupidity (not a good bet). Remember Freeza put a stop to that garbage as soon as he figured out what was going and Cell clearly has Freeza's memories. ˛** A better question is why fusing with Kami deactivated the Dragonballs at all. It's not like the fusion with Nail, who was an entirely separate being. Piccolo and Kami are intrinsically the same person, hence the fact that one dying would instantly kill the other. It shouldn't be considered Kami ceasing to exist, just that he's no longer physically separated from the other half of himself. The end result isn't just Piccolo with a power boost, it's Piccolo ''and'' Kami. He simply has everyone call him Piccolo as a matter of convenience.˛** Here's a theory; perhaps Piccolo's power being so high is exactly why he didn't empower the dragon balls himself. Anything that was giving the Z fighters trouble wouldn't be solved by Shenron, Piccolo or no Piccolo powering him, but a Piccolo-empowered Shenron in the hands of someone else who summoned the dragon could potentially do some real damage. Could be they decided to have a weaker guardian specifically to keep a low limit on the dragon's capabilities as a defense measure against misuse.˛** I think the issue here is purity of heart: Yeah, Piccolo became a good guy, but just at a "regular good guy" level (With a lot of blood on his hands from his King Piccolo era, by the way) while Kami was 100% pure of heart, since that was the whole point of dividing himself to begin with. If he tried to have a set of dragon balls depending of him, because of his Piccolo side they may become tainted and potentially dangerous, like the black star dragon balls at the beginning of GT (Which were in fact actually made by a pre-split Kami). To elaborate on the "regular good guy" purity, think about Bulma, Krillin or Roshi; they are all really good guys, but still not pure enough to use the Kinto'un cloud since they are not as absurdly good-natured as Goku.˛** Only Namekians of the Dragon Clan can create Dragonballs. Kami (and presumably King Piccolo) were such. Piccolo Jr., being both incredibly powerful and born to avenge his father, is undoubtedly a Warrior Clan Namekian. And since his body was the base, the "Kamiccolo" fusion is also a Warrior. He doesn't make Dragonballs because he simply can't.˛˛* How the hell does no one recognize any of the Z fighters during the broadcast of the Cell Games? Goku is a former World Champion, Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien were all competitors in the Tenkaichi Budokai, Piccolo should be still recognized as Ma Junior, and Vegeta was televised when the Saiyans attacked. Just because of different hair and eye color, nobody thinks that the dude wearing the exact same uniform as the former World Champion could possibly be him?˛** An old couple do recognize Goku as "Chichi's husband" and the King (The dog guy) also recognises him, as for everyone else, it's probably the hair that threw them off, by the time Hercule came into the scene I doubt Goku was publicized much so no one had really seen his face for a long time. As for Yamcha, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien, I don't think the Camera was ever focused on them (I could be wrong) plus in the 23rd Budokai, no one realized it was Piccolo until his Turban came off... Vegeta being televised was only in the Anime.˛** This is, in fact, a PlotHole. There is no reason why this was omitted from the Plot Hole section on this website. Ki attacks and flying are world famous in ''Dragon Ball'' and it is absolutely ludicrous they would ever forget. They would have had to destroy every single record or altered it in some Literature/NineteenEightyFour way but for absolutely no reason. One BigBad points this out, saying that mankind has already forgotten Goku.˛** Well it was roughly twenty years in between the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi tournament and the Cell Games so it isn't all that surprising that people forgot. Same reason Hercule was able to convince people that Ki blasts, etc. were 'tricks'. That and the rare few who CAN use Ki energy are content to be anonymous. And finding people who can use them is hard if you don't have the resources to find them. and convincing them to teach you is even harder.˛** Goku only won one tournament and he'd physically changed since then. Most spectators tend to only remember the winners and occasionally the runner-ups. The only ones who would have been recognised were Tenshinhan and Piccolo.˛** The Budokai wasn't that big a deal back in the day. There weren't any cameras or even stands, people just basically crowded around the ring. It was only really for the locals and people who were really interested in fighting. Piccolo even mentions that the Buu Saga Budokai is much larger, but has lost its soul in the process. In short, there might have been 200 people or so who saw the Z fighters in action back in the day and those that we know who did, like the announcer and the king, do recognize them.˛˛* Why didn't Cell use Instant Transmission to escape Gohan's final Kamehameha?˛** Because he was putting literally all his energy into deflecting Gohan's blast. He spares a moment's concentration on ducking away, he gets vaporized that much faster.˛** Instant Transmission requires a Ki source to lock onto, right? So, he could have probably teleported away after Vegeta blasted him (When he turns around and shouts "BEJITA!") but after that, he is basically inside that giant Kamehameha stream. How's he supposed to make out a ki source somewhere when he is being blasted in the face by a ginormous energy ball?˛˛* When Cell killed Trunks in the third timeline, why did he go to the first timeline? Shouldn't he have gone to the fourth timeline (an unseen one) as that was where third timeline Trunks was going?˛** Time travel plots rarely make sense, even the ones that are written well.˛*** The first IS the "fourth" timeline. It's in their history that Cell came to their timeline, it's part of their timeline. The multiverse is infinite so there are millions of Cells that jumped into other timelines as well.˛*** Because Cell goes back to a different year: 1 year before Future Trunks arrives. Meaning, he's basically interfering with the Original Timeline (Cell's Timeline: the one he just came from.) The reason the Main Timeline comes about is because BOTH Cell and Future Trunks wind up time travelling to it.˛˛* How did the Androids not kill everyone on Earth in 14 years? And why are people still going to places like amusement parks after all that time?˛** Androids just wanna have fun. The amusement parks, I'm not so sure...˛** I get the feeling the Androids are more like frequent earthquakes than anything. Civilization still exists, with news announcements and amusement parks and clothing stores; it's just that every so often, a city goes boom.˛*** Dunno about the anime but in the manga, Trunks says the androids deliberately prolong the killing for ''fun'', that the entire population of the Earth only numbers in the tens of thousands, and that most of humanity has been forced to hide underground. Not a single amusement park or shopping mall appears.˛˛* How the hell does Imperfect Cell get so stupidly powerful after absorbing humans? When regenerated Piccolo first fights Cell, he's shown to be much more powerful, but Cell absorbs a few humans and then is able to crush Piccolo AND Android 17 in their second battle. True, Piccolo was weakened, but Android 17 was shown to be about the same strength, and he NEVER runs out of energy. In the first power level reading, it's of a farmer, who has a power of 5. So most humans have a power level of about 5, but Piccolo was as strong or even stronger than a Super Saiyan at that point, which had a power level way up in the high millions...And, if Cell could absorb weaklings and get so strong, couldn't he have absorbed a Z-Fighter or something all those times his opponent was stronger? Would've come in WAY handy against Gohan...˛** Absorbing strong people was more work than he wanted to put in. He went for quantity instead of quality. Also it's likely the power inside him wasn't a 1-1 correlation, but instead grew exponentially by the number of people he absorbed.˛*** A few people? He ''annihilated'' several cities, so, depending on their size, he could have absorbed something over a million people at that point.˛*** The average population for a city in the US is 6545 people (281,421,906 spread over 43,000 towns/cities) and the average power level of an ordinary human (based on Raditz's Scouter) is 5. This means that Cell, on average, experienced a 32,725 fold increase in power upon successfully destroying each city. However, that is not the full story because it has often been noted that Cell's aura resembles a Super Saiyan (which given how Gero collected Freeza and King Colds cells at the same time Trunks and Goku went Super Saiyan it is highly likely he collected Super Saiyan DNA). Given the 50X multiplier Super Saiyan provides, his power increase per city increases from 32,725 to 1636250 - or in other words one Final Form Freeza per city (which given Cell's massive improvement over Piccolo the second time they fought, that figure would seem almost exactly right). It is also worth noting that according to Raditz, Roshi has a power level of 139. Now, Roshi is by every definition a superhuman, but we know from the original ''Dragon Ball'' (namely the World Martial Arts Tournaments and the Red Ribbon Saga) a fighter with even a basic level of martial arts and/or ki training is capable of reaching power levels around the 100 mark. If Cell absorbed enough reputable fighters you could happily multiply my estimate above by tens of thousands.˛** Consider the Spirit Bomb; when the energy is drawn from lots of ordinary living things, it becomes the most powerful attack in existence. Cell absorbing such energy from mere humans is not so unbelievable in that context.˛** Also keep in mind absorbing someone's essence may not give you their current battle power but just their spirit or essence or something akin to that. Similar to how Piccolo fuses with Nail and suddenly becomes on-par with 2nd form Frieza, or how Gogeta is way more powerful than just Goku + Vegeta, it's not a stretch to say some form of fusion is taking place with Cell when he absorbs humans. Even when he absorbs 17/18, his power increases drastically and it's not just Cell+17/18's power. So at the least it's internally consistent within the DBZverse.˛*** I would say it's something like that. I would assume the farmer's power level was so low because 1. Yes, he's weak, but, 2. He has no knowledge of how to use his ki energy at all. He would be able to increase his power level if knew how to, and if he was able to access 100% of all the energy in his body, he'd probably access a power level a whole lot higher than 5 (he'd also probably end up burning out and dying). So when Cell absorbs people, he gains every drop of energy in their body AND he knows how to use it effectively, meaning he can increase his power by however much raw ki energy resides in a human body, and most likely multiply it through some form of ki control. ˛˛* According to Future Trunks, Goku in his timeline died of heart disease even before the androids attacked. Question: why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to either cure him or resurrect him? Huh?˛** Earth's Dragon Balls have many restrictions. They can't grant the same wish twice, they can't revive someone who died more than a certain amount of time ago, and, most relevant to this case, they can't revive anyone that died of natural causes. Disease is natural, unfortunately.˛*** What about curing the disease ''before'' it kills him? Also, at that point they just came back from Namek so they know about and have access to the Namekian Dragon Balls.˛*** The disease seemed to have a pretty rapid onset, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that finding the Dragon Balls would have taken too long (sure, they can fly now, but they'd still probably have to do people a bunch of favors to actually ''get'' the damn things like the first few times around). As for the Namekian ones: Yes, they were aware that they still had them, but they had ''no idea'' where the Namekians were (Goku had to go to Kaio-sama to figure that one out) and, even if they did, there was no way to get there in time -- what with the one guy that can instantly get to wherever he wants being at death's door and all.˛*** If you recall, it took over a month for them to actually reach Namek, and since we don't really know exactly how fast it kills him, we can assume that by the time they got there and made the wish, Goku would have died. Or maybe they were just waiting for him to get better, or for doctors to find a cure - I mean who could have predicted that Goku would have died?˛*** The rapid onset part was the problem. Remember during Cell Saga, Goku found all the Dragon Balls within a day or two before going to the Cell Games? So they could have found the balls and cured him, but it's very possible that by the time they realized he was ill and dying (they only knew what was wrong with him in this timeline because Trunks had given advance warnings) and took a few hours to search for the balls, Goku had already kicked the bucket.˛*** Also, let's keep in mind that it was ''Goku'' who found all the Dragon Balls within a day or two before going to the Cell Games. AKA ''the one guy that can instantly get to wherever he wants''. I can imagine it taking closer to a week for any of the others.˛** Bear in mind the disease came out of nowhere, works fast, and according to Trunks, they tried to cure it with the senzu beans. They undoubtedly thought the beans would stop it and when they failed didn't have the time to gather the balls. Once Goku was dead, that was it. The dragon balls wouldn't work on natural causes and no one could find New Namek but Goku through King Kai so even if the Namekian balls didn't have that limitation they couldn't reach them in the first place.˛˛* After consistently falling short with the creation of the first 16 androids because none of them is evil/obedient/proactive enough to carry out his designs to rule the world and/or destroy Goku, is there a reason why, of all the [[SunnydaleSyndrome unassuming idiots]] in the ''Dragon Ball'' world for Dr. Gero to kidnap and use for his experiments, does he even entertain the thought of going for '''[[TheRunaway the two runaway teenagers]]''', let alone decide that it's a good idea?˛** Because when all else fails and you need to pick aid from the general pool of the human population, you RecruitTeenagersWithAttitude. Gero was clearly WrongGenreSavvy about that trope.˛** Keep in mind that 17/18 were completely different animals than 1-16 and 19. Right around the teens and early twenties are when human beings start to reach their physical prime, first off. Second, since this seems to have been new tech, Gero might have anticipated it taking a while - which led to getting young bodies as opposed to older ones, as well as building 19 to assist him AND androidizing himself. Third, it seems that, as teenage runaways, 17 and 18 probably would have been strong enough to keep themselves out of danger and may have done a little street fighting (who the hell taught them to fight otherwise?). Say, they were maybe a power level of 8 as opposed to 2-5 like most humans. ˛** Plus Fewer people would ask questions when they stop seeing them around. Grab the girl down the street and someone will call the cops to report them missing. Not so in 17 and 18's case because they've either already been reported missing or no one will miss them. If they've made friends on the streets, those friends may very well assume they've moved on elsewhere. No one will ask any questions. Unlikely that someone looking for a missing buddy will track down Gero but why take the risk? ˛˛* In the anime I don't think Trunks ever specifically says what numbers the androids are in his timeline (I may be wrong) but in the manga he says they are numbers 19 and 20, so if 19 and 20 in his timeline and 17 and 18 in the present, what are the extra 2 Gero built in Trunks timeline? Are they ever mentioned or shown?˛** And to make matters worse, when Trunks goes back in time, they do refer to themselves as 17 and 18. Did Trunks just mess up or what?˛** Shockingly this exists in the original manga as well because Toriyama originally intended for 19 and 20 to be the [[BigBad Big Bads]] but his old editor was not impressed so he made up 17 and 18.˛˛* After blowing himself up, how did Cell's cells power him up? When Vegeta is explaining the whole Saiyajin get stronger after recovering from a near-fatal situation that the damage cannot be self-inflicted. I'm pretty sure activating a self-destruct mechanism is a self-inflicted injury. And unlike the other Androids where the self-destruct bomb was a piece that was installed, with Cell being Cell that means the detonation and explosive properties were a part of his DNA ie. not external influence.˛** Vegeta was apparently mistaken. Remember how Goku trained on his way to Namek? By shooting himself with his own Ki attacks then using a Senzu Bean to heal himself. So apparently Vegeta just got his facts wrong. Saiyans being a Proud WarriorRace, it probably started as just a taboo against doing it yourself because it was cheating or something that mutated into "it just doesn't work that way," sort of how the Discworld wizards' rule against sex/marriage started as a way to prevent [[PersonOfMassDestruction Sourcerors]] from being born, and mutated into "If you have sex your magic won't work".˛** As an additional thought, perhaps that particular "limit" was created to prevent uprisings and power hungry individuals. Saying "it doesn't work if you do it to yourself" would prevent weaker Saiyans from deliberately hurting themselves in order to push themselves to a point they could rise up against the aristocracy, and keep unstable aristocrats from madly raising their own levels or accidentally offing themselves. ˛** Nobody ever said that Saiyan zenkais had to follow the exact same rules when applied to Cell. Given that he was capable of self-destruction at all, the computer likely designed him specifically as such.˛** Cell actually states he did NOT expect this to work out the way it did. Maybe this is what is important for Zenkai, i.e feeling genuine fear of death with no safety net, yet crawling back from that state. Probably trying to cash in that powerup again would NOT have worked since it would not have been an honest attempt at dying.˛*** Vegeta and Chaosu are capable of self-destruction and if you count GT Goku can do it. I don't think that's a rare power in DBZ it's just not something that people use since it's fatal to the user.˛*** Vegeta has been shown on more than one occasion to have far more pride in himself than he does brains. He's constantly boasting about proud Saiyan nonsense, Prince of all Saiyans, etc. and would likely consider self-induced injury for a zenkai boost to be cheating, and utterly beneath someone of his status, to the point of completely dismissing it without consideration. To him, it probably is a matter of not working.˛˛* Why didn't they just steal Cell's time machine, go to his timeline, and retrieve the devices that deactivate the androids so Cell will revert to his imperfect form and be defeated easily?˛** First, because time travel is screwy and each time you go back in time you just create a new continuity. Secondly, because Cell sorta melted his way out of his time machine and left it to rot, so it's probably not in great condition. Thirdly, Trunks says the time machine doesn't have a whole lot of juice to it, and Cell swiped it from Trunks right after he got back to the future, so it's likely it was just out of power.˛*** The device that deactivates the androids was created by Bulma in THIS timeline. Going to another timeline won't help. Furthermore, the whole point of deactivation was to do it BEFORE they were absorbed. Once they'd been absorbed it was already too late.˛˛* This is a problem (I mean improvement) partially with the translation from Japanese to English but if you watch it with the subtitles on or go read the manga Cell can't regenerate from a single cell. He regenerates as long as a certain lump of cells in his head remains intact. Goku blew his head (and everything north of his waist) clear off.˛** Only a guess here: maybe that lump is vital only if Cell is disintegrated. "Minor" injuries like the loss of the upper half of the body are recoverable. But yeah, that's a bit of a PlotHole...˛** I think what Cell said was that as long as the nucleus in his head is intact, he can regenerate. Basically, this can be taken to mean that as long as the nucleus of at least one cell in his head exists, he can keep coming back.˛*** Goku took everything over Cell's waist off with his instant transmission attack. It's either what the above poster said and the loss of everything but your legs is still considered a "minor" injury, Cell was lying and or mistaken about his own regeneration abilities (which seems likely, considering his near-death experience was an explosion inside him it seems unlikely enough of his head would survive to do anything) or the writer didn't know what was up.˛** Apparently that was a translation error, there was never a thing in his head that made him regen, he just regens.˛*** Episode 189 6:46, in Japanese, Cell DOES mention a lump in his head as his core: "In my head, there is a small lump. It acts as my core. As long as it is not destroyed, my body can keep on regenerating itself". This is a plot hole.˛˛* The events surrounding Piccolo's defeat at the hands of Cell are bugging me... he has his neck broken with a punch, a hole opened through the chest by an energy wave and is then tossed into the sea; people who witness these events claim that he's dead, Goku says that he can no longer perceive his aura and nobody tries to help him (not even Tien, who's right there). A couple of minutes later Goku teleports and saves an exhausted Tien, but before he can leave, he discovers that not only Piccolo is alive, ''he is even coming out of the water by himself!'' How can he be still alive and capable of that?˛** Well, Namekians can regenerate, for a start. And it wouldn't be the first time (even in this Saga) that Piccolo in particular has feigned greater injury for one reason or another.˛*** Namekians can regrow body parts, but I'm pretty sure they can't regenerate a broken neck (their power is not like Wolverine's).˛*** In Buu saga, Piccolo explains that he only needs his head to be intact to allow him to regenerate the rest of his body. It shows him doing this after Trunks accidentally dismembered him.˛˛* Why is Gohan during this saga known as Teen Gohan in the video games? He's around 7 at the start and 10 at the end.˛** American-induced misnaming. He doesn't even look like a teen, tbh.˛** Plus, I think in the dub they originally made him like a year and a half older for reasons that I can't remember but probably only made sense back then. They probably just decided what with his abs and pecs and being between 11 and 12, he was close enough to a teenager. They just never went back to correct it.˛** Other than not naming him or using the even more awkward early, mid, end, GT names that Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo often get there was no more fitting name for him. ˛˛* So Goku is dying of a heart virus and the end of the world is approaching. So... what's keeping him from using instant transmission to teleport himself and the entire crew to Namek, gather the Namekian Dragon Balls, have Vegeta vaporize him, then ask Porunga to restore his body (1st wish), petition Lord Enma to have his body reunited with spirit, ask Porunga to bring him back to life (2nd wish), then have Goku teleport back to Namek and bring everybody back to Earth. The Virus was destroyed when Vegeta vaporized him, Goku is back at full health, and received a power boost since he pretty much came back from the dead. Convoluted heart virus subplot resolved, and the subsequent complications are averted.˛** So you're saying a plan that requires Vegeta acting out of character (he wants to ''beat'' Goku and wouldn't just kill him if he ''let'' him) and a bunch of back and forths is less "convoluted" than the initial plan of "just take the medicine that you know will cure you when the symptoms start showing up"? Nothing "convoluted", just bad timing.˛** I believe that the original poster was referring to the Mirai timeline--y'know, the one where there [[PunctuatedForEmphasis WAS. NO. CURE.]] Besides, as far as Vegeta being out of character goes, he gets to incinerate Kakarot and fight him afterwards. Yay. No, the real trouble is probably that this thing came out of nowhere and they didn't have time to think that up or find an alternate way to get to New Namek after he died.˛** He couldn't have been referring to that timeline, because in that timeline Goku was long dead before they even knew the Androids existed, so the end of the world wasn't "approaching."˛** Well in the Mirai timeline it was a sudden onset that killed him before anyone realised what the disease was, how it spread etc. So they really didn't have time to go off planet for a cure. In the main timeline, they also didn't know much about it and were too busy training to really think about saving Goku. Also, they didn't know if Goku would get the disease or when, so planning something that convoluted would have been pointless. Also, why go to all that trouble for something they couldn't guarantee would work when you had medicine handy that you knew would. Also, Vegeta wouldn't kill Goku like that unless it was in a true battle his pried as a True Saiyan Warrior would demand no less than a true match to the death with Goku to see who was truly the best.˛** Pretty much that. There is nothing forced or complicated about taking medicine when you start feeling the symptoms. They didn't need to worry about saving Goku, as they assumed he'd take care of it himself as, y'know, he has the cure sitting in the fridge in his house, and presumably, he doesn't want to die of a heart virus. It's his fault for not thinking ahead and bringing the cure with him when it came time to face the androids. And, as previously said, Vegeta's Saiyan pride and honor would not allow him to simply vaporize Goku, even if he wanted. ˛** Additionally, Instant Transmission wouldn't work. As far out as the Buu Saga, Goku can't sense New Namek to lock on to the Namekians' ki to make the teleport. A spaceship would need to be used... and Goku would die long, long before the trip ended. Besides, if dying of a virus is considered by Toriyama to be a death of "natural causes" then the virus may come back with Goku when resurrected and kill him again anyway. Since a virus is an outside organism attacking Goku it makes no sense for this to happen, sure, but that means even the OP's plot wouldn't be necessary; all they would need to do is wait until Goku dies, then fly to Namek and wish him back to life virus-free, but that's just not how things work in the DBZ universe.˛˛* Why didn't Gero just stick with Android 16? From what we saw he was far more powerful than the others, there weren't any indicators that he would have disobeyed Gero's commands and even if there was something about 16 that made him unwilling to kill Goku (which we never see) why couldn't he just use the design to make another? Heck, 17 even wonders about it briefly before it's dropped and never mentioned again.˛** 17 and 18 were basically just food for Cell, Dr. Gero's biggest project. Of course, this just raises the question of why he didn't just make Cell in his Perfect Form to begin with.˛** Creating two teenaged androids (who are just effectively regular renegade teens with modifications) so they can live in fear and dread of a killer insect android hunting them down for food? Yep, sounds like something Gero would do.˛** Gero wasn't just after a Goku killer, he wanted an android that would lay waste to the world too. 16 would not even do that, he might even stop Gero when he tries himself. If 17&18 did kill the Z Fighters and Goku, 16 might've killed them when they try to run wild across the world.˛˛* When Gohan finally overpowers Perfect Cell, the latter threatens a Super Kamehameha powerful enough to destroy the world. Fair enough. The problem is that it literally takes minutes for him to charge up the damn thing - why did he choose such an inefficient technique? Vegeta's Galick Gun destroyed Arlia effortlessly in seconds, Freeza's ''Orange Glowing Ball of Death'' destroyed Vegeta effortlessly in seconds - both techniques Cell would obviously know and yet, despite being hundreds of times stronger, he chose the longest, most drawn out technique he could possibly use which gave his enemies ample time to counter-attack. In fact, to put into scale just ''how'' long Cell took to destroy the Earth, Master Roshi - Power Level 139 took less time to Kamehameha the moon than Perfect Cell - Power Level several million took to shoot the planet he was standing on.˛** Cell's a bit of an idiot. I'm assuming it's something he got from Goku. He has a real sense of dramatic irony, which is why he set up the whole tournament charade to begin with. Destroying the earth with his family's signature attack is exactly the kind of thing Cell would do to spite Gohan. Minor aside; Roshi's power level was presumably above 139 when he blew up the moon. Scouters only read how much is being put out at that moment, not what they're hiding before power-ups. Roshi was in hulk-mode when he made the moon go boom, not to mention several years younger and in better shape.˛** Just look at the situation from Cell's point of view: you achieved your primary purpose, i.e. getting your perfect body; you, therefore, are the single most powerful being on Earth, with an unquenchable pride and thirst for fighting. You then go on creating and announcing the Cell Games; the goal, beyond satisfying your sadism, being taking the slightest chance possible to find a decent challenge on this planet before destroying it; of course, you know damn well that your archnemesis will be there, with a little surprise, Goku told you. D-day arrives, you fight the 2nd best warrior of Earth beside you to a stalemate; he gives up and makes the tag to his hopeless son, that you almost immediately tries to torture. Then, that hopeless son, not only responding to your torture methods by getting his power meter through the sky, manages to ''single-handedly'' kick your perfect ass in the most humiliating way possible, even forcing you to try a self-destruct attempt. THEN, you get the chance to come back to life even stronger than before. You have the combined DNA of Freeza and Vegeta; you don't want to beat your nemesis and destroy his planet; you want to shatter his spirit before. I always assumed that Cell, with this Kamehameha, actually ''wants'' to get a response; he's about to destroy the Earth and kill the only person who bested him, all with that person's signature move; doing it by ''besting that person in a Kamehameha clash with said signature move'' would be the ultimate cherry on the cake.˛** Simple answer, he said solar system, that's why it's called the Solar Kamehameha (wiki it).˛˛* Since he hadn't been created for the series yet, Goten wasn't in the future- I understand that. However, after his creation, shouldn't he have been retconned into the future, or at least acknowledged as dying as a baby or something? Or did he not exist at all? Although, I'm pretty sure he should have based on my knowledge of the timeline, I could be wrong.˛** Its actually pretty simple; the most likely point in which Goku and Chi Chi conceived Goten was during his and Gohan's week-long cooldown period before the Cell Games - in other words years after the timelines diverged to make Future Trunk's universe. Incidentally, it is also a good explanation as to why Goten can go Super Saiyan so easily seeing as there is a good chance Goku was in Full Power Super Saiyan mode during his making love to her.˛*** Goku specifically said that the only time they wouldn't be Super Saiyan is when they slept. And seeing as how the act would most likely be done in bed, Goku wouldn't have been a Super Saiyan at the time. Also, I don't think Goku porking Chichi as a Super Saiyan is a safe idea. I don't know if this is in the manga but in the anime Goku and Gohan, while a Super Saiyan, had a hard time controlling their strength to do ordinary tasks like picking up a glass without breaking it. I'm pretty sure Chichi would've ended up in the hospital with some broken bones.˛*** The idea is that having the Super Saiyan ability causes genes to be expressed in such a way that Goten would have easier access to the form than Gohan, not that Goten was conceived by Super Goku. That is some (loose) basis in real life, where the present condition of the parent can affect how genes are expressed in the child.˛** Goten was conceived in the lead up for the Cell Games, well after Goku would have died in the original timeline. Right after Goku gets Dende to be the new God, three days before the Games, he brings Gohan to the lookout and tells him to stay there until the Games, without really giving a reason why.˛˛* This could just be the English dub, but towards the end of the saga, after Cell comes back from blowing himself up, he states he's going to use instant transmission to more or less wipe out all life in the universe. Why? I get it, Cell's a dick, but really, why? He was created for the sole purpose of killing Goku. He proved, however, that he was capable of ignoring that when he chose to accept Goku's surrender and fight Gohan instead (granted, with the intent of killing Goku when he was done with his son), which can be chalked up to him being a BloodKnight; hell, the whole tournament farce of the Cell Games is due to him being a blood knight, which he gets from his Saiyan genes. So, Saiyan genes override the Kill Goku programming. But he goes from BloodKnight to OmnicidalManiac awful quick. If anything, shouldn't he had gone the Freeza route and decided to try his hand at becoming a GalacticConqueror?˛** My theory: He wasn't planning on doing it, he just claimed that he would so that they would be desperate to defeat him and fight that much harder. He was raising the stakes.˛** Cell wasn't designed to hunt and kill Goku specifically, actually. He was simply designed to [[DisproportionateRetribution spite the universe and all life as a whole]]. Cell himself remarks on this after becoming Super Perfect.˛** Keep in mind what makes up Cell. The Saiyans were pretty apocalyptic in themselves-rather than using their power to enslave planets, they cleared them of all life. Yeah, Freeza told them to do it, but [[BloodKnight they sure didn't mind.]] Then there's [[AxCrazy Freeza]], who casually wiped out life due to a mixture of [[EvilIsPetty plotting real estate]] and [[ForTheEvulz sadism.]] Cell had [[FromASingleCell practical immortality]] as well and just suffered a near-death experience when becoming Super Perfect. Cell was probably thinking that by going to war with the entire universe he'd have a great fight, and more importantly to him, prove that he's perfect [[VillainousBreakdown after Gohan hurt his ego.]] If the planets get destroyed quickly, then [[LackOfEmpathy they don't matter.]] If the heroes of the planet fight back, then [[BloodKnight Cell gets a great fight.]] ˛˛* Also, how did Cell return in his perfect form? He can regenerate from a single cell and get stronger after nearly dying, this explains why he was still alive. But without 18, shouldn't he have regenerated to his second form?˛** 18 provided Cell with the energy he needed to achieve his Perfect form. After Cell self-destructed and regenerated, Cell's Saiyan genes gave him an enormous power boost (since if a Saiyan recovers from (near-)death their power increases phenomenally). This power boost was enough to kick Cell into his Perfect form and even go beyond it, becoming Super Perfect Cell, all without the need of 18. Which begs the question if Cell would have become even more powerful if he had absorbed 18 again.˛** The official explanation is that Cell's... cells remembered the Perfect form and allowed him to regenerate into it despite not having the Androids absorbed anymore.˛˛* How come, after getting a huge power boost from his self-destruction and subsequent regeneration, Cell didn't just blow himself up a few more times in deep space to bring himself to ludicrous power levels? I mean, even with his ego he should have realized he was still only roughly on par with Gohan and at risk of losing again. The only real logical reason I can think of is that he only survived his explosion by a few cells and didn't want to risk not being so lucky next time, but then he could have just used a more controlled blast or even just destroy himself with precise ki attacks until he's just a few cells.˛** Zenkai doesn't work if you do it to yourself (Remember during the Freeza fight, Krillin had to blow a hole in Vegeta's chest to invoke Zenkai, rather than Vegeta doing it himself). ˛*** Um...sorry, that's incorrect. Cell blew himself up and got a Zenkai, Goku got multiple Zenkais on his way to Namek by blasting himself, etc.˛*** My guess was that in his mind, the only reason Gohan outclassed him was because of power, not skill. If he was on par with Gohan, then his superior skill would win the day.˛*** When you can regenerate from a few cells, then being reduced to a few cells constitutes "near death". [[TruthInTelevision Life]] tends to be lazy that way, so by unlocking that method of regeneration, Cell now has taken that risk every time.˛** Cell explains very frankly that his regeneration was a matter of luck. He wasn't going to risk that again, because he probably wouldn't get so lucky next time. Also, he thought he had already become stronger than Gohan, so there was no reason to do it.˛*** Depending on the translation that's believed regarding Cell's regenerative qualities, it's entirely possible that he would've been considering far worse possibilities. Suppose he blew himself up with a lower yield explosion, just enough to kill himself without the risk of reducing himself to the cellular level, but enough to obliterate a sizable portion of his body. What if other body parts survive the explosion and regenerate as well, and then Cell finds himself surrounded by others of himself, each one believing themselves to be the one and true Cell? It'd be his own autoimmune disorder, as he'd have to do battle with potentially numerous perfect copies of himself.˛˛* It is repeatedly stated that androids don't have chi. If that is true, then how can they use KiAttacks? I can kinda understand Android 16, since his ki attack is in the form of energy cannons he has for biceps. But 17 and 18 seem to use regular KiAttacks like everybody else despite lacking ki. What the hell?˛** Well, they are [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Ridiculously Human]] {{Cyborg}}s, after all. The energy provided may come from their circuits similar to how organic warriors draw ki out of their bodies for blast attacks, but that doesn't necessarily mean the energy itself has to be ki.˛** Their energy is unnatural, so it probably can't be sensed naturally. Also, I vaguely recall Androids' energy being referred to as something other than ki.˛** Because they don't use chi, a natural energy that flows through the universe. They use ki, energy built up inside themselves, which they build up through artificial means? (Okay, translators tend to use the terms interchangeably but I tried)˛** Did any of the characters actually ''try'' to sense #17 and #18? It's possible that the reason they were able to run free for so long is because no-one bothered tracking them by chi.˛˛* Okay, I've got a few things concerning Akira Toriyama's rather notorious AssPull decisions. If he intended Gohan to be Goku's successor, why in the seven hells did he go against it in the Buu saga? It wasn't as if the series would collapse without Goku and Gohan was popular enough to keep the series alive and loved, but why-oh-why did he do the things he did to Gohan? Not only has Gohan almost stopped training completely, he has actually ''got weaker and horribly rusty'' over seven years to the point that he can't take on a considerably weakened '' '''[[AxCrazy Bro]][[OmnicidalManiac ly]]''' '' at his strongest and he has proven to be a poor successor. If that was what he had in mind, then why did he have Goku die in the Cell saga?˛** Can't claim to know what goes on in Toriyama's mind of course and it bugs me too, but I'm guessing by the time the Buu saga rolled around he was just sick and tired of the series and wanted to move on to other things and just wasn't paying much attention to what he was doing (it would explain a LOT of the problems with the Buu saga), and decided to pander to the base a bit by making Goku and Vegeta the heroes again.˛** As I understand it, having Gohan succeed Goku was Toriyama's original plan, but ExecutiveMeddling forced Goku back into the spotlight.˛** Something like that, I heard that the Japanese audience really liked Goku, which makes sense to me considering that I ONLY liked Gohan during the cell games.˛** Akira Toriyama: ''"I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn't work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part."'' (''Daizenshuu 2'' interview) There you have it, official confirmation of why Gohan didn't stay the main character in the Buu Arc, Toriyama felt he couldn't handle the role. And considering Gohan was pretty apathetic towards training and making sure he didn't fall behind in strength, can you blame him for thinking Gohan wasn't suitable as the main character? Gohan was essentially a subversion of all the tropes that made Goku so lovable. Fan rumor though has usually claimed that Toriyama was "forced" to give Gohan the shaft due to fan outcry and/or his ever-insidious editor and there is not any real evidence of this. ˛*** Gohan fell behind in strength and became apathetic BECAUSE Toriyama decided he was unfit to be the lead, not the other way around. It's actually puzzling how that happened since he's been a warrior almost from the point of being able to walk and his father died protecting the world, you'd think Gohan would have kept at it. In his defense, he was still the second or third strongest being in the universe at the beginning of the Buu saga and the most powerful being again by the end.˛*** Umm, no. Gohan told Cell before he ascended to [=SSJ2=] that he never like fighting in the first place. In fact, Chi-Chi never forced him to study if you go by the manga and Japanese anime. Chi Chi ''encouraged'' him to do it, but by the time Namek was over you can pretty much say Gohan was bent on studying himself. He just wanted to train since the androids were there and stuff. He's a BadassPacifist who doesn't appreciate fighting as much as his father does, hence the reason he stopped training after his father died.˛*** Let's not forget what happens after Cell dies and Gohan becomes the main character: almost an entire volume of school antics, Gohan turning into a sentai parody, and possibly some teen romance. Perhaps Toriyama thought that Gohan was a good main character for those kinds of activities, and he always seemed happier when writing weird stuff. But if Dragon Ball's new audience was different from Dr. Slump's audience, they probably wouldn't have liked this new turn of events. That would explain why he eventually just made the manga into a fighting series again very soon. And he didn't see Gohan fit as the main character of the fighting parts. So yeah, in a way it could be that he was effectively forced to change his mind, but in a very indirect way. It's also worth pointing out that Gohan was the most popular character in the series by the end of the Cell saga (which could have influenced Toriyama's choices), but he had disappeared from the Top 5 during the Buu arc (a sign that fans didn't like the character's new direction). In the end, writers have to please their fans, even when nobody is quite forcing them to, if only to keep their readership.˛˛* When 17 breaks Gero's HandyRemoteControl, he replies that he'll make another one. So does he just expect 17 and 18 to stand there and watch while he does?˛** [[TooDumbToLive Yes.]]˛** Let's not forget who we're talking about here. This is Dr. Gero: [[BadassBookworm scientific genius]], [[EvilOldFolks crazy old man]], and [[EvilOldFolks sadistic]] [[RevengeBeforeReason vengeful]] [[AIIsACrapshoot idiot]] [[TooDumbToLive extraordinaire]].˛˛* Cell doesn't seem to use his powers anywhere near as much as he could. Absorption, regeneration, teleportation, the ability to spawn mini-mook versions of himself, ''all'' of the Z-Fighter's techniques... it just seemed like if he used even one of those abilities intelligently no one would've stood a chance. Absorbing a few million humans raised him from weaker than Piccolo to stronger than him. Yet he never tries to absorb Piccolo, who's hundreds of millions times stronger than the average human? He never thinks to spawn a Super Perfect Cell Jr. in his final fight with Gohan to help him, or at least make sure the other fighters don't interfere like, you know, exactly what they did? He doesn't think to teleport Gohan and himself into space, where he can survive and Gohan can't? He doesn't think to try to self-destruct again, knowing that no one could stop him and he could regenerate? Even if that somehow didn't destroy the planet, he'd still come back more than powerful enough to stomp Gohan.˛** Cell didn't seem to be entirely sane when he came back after self-destructing, given his drastic motivation and personality change. Not that he was sane before, but he pretty much completely shifted gears from "I'm going to have fun with my new body by fighting powerful opponents and killing people slowly" to "I'm going to slaughter every living thing in the universe because I'm convinced that's my purpose now". It seems like killing himself and coming back from a cell messed up his faculties somewhat and he was so obsessed with taking vengeance on Gohan as fast as possible he simply didn't think of those options. As for why he didn't absorb Piccolo? Maybe he could have, but by the time he was powerful enough to do that he was already much stronger than him anyway, and Androids 17 and 18 were right there, so he decided not to waste time and just get to his perfect form already.˛** Maybe there's a hard cap on how powerful he can get in his first form, and he reached that once he absorbed enough towns worth of people. So there's no point in attempting to absorb Piccolo. As for him being terrible at using his other abilities, he did have Krillin's cells who fails miserably at utilizing his Kienzan in situations where it's conjectured he could have killed much stronger opponents. Also, he has Vegeta's cells of arrogance so he never believed the other Z-fighters made a difference.˛** For absorbing Piccolo, Cell tries that. He drains a whole arm dry before Piccolo breaks free, then reveals he's still easily powerful enough to kill Cell. Ever since then, Cell stays the hell away from Piccolo until he shows up at Piccolo and 17's fight. At that point, Cell is strong enough to drain Piccolo, but why waste time with that when the androids, who will give him a ''much'' greater boost, are right there? As for why he underuses his skills in the final battle, Perfect Cell is pretty much defined as being arrogant as all hell and is even worse as Super Perfect. He's not going to use a trick like teleporting Gohan into a vacuum because he doesn't need to, nor does he need to use his self-destruction trick or anything other than beating Gohan in a pure power contest because that's more fun to him anyway.˛˛* Why is Cell not weaker when he regenerates from his own bomb? Cell's regeneration comes from his Namekian cells, and their power of regeneration has been repeatedly stated to drain energy when replacing limbs; not only did Freeza comment on this when Nail grew his arm back, but just earlier during their fight Cell had used up a good amount of it recovering from the Kamehameha Goku had hit him with. Restoring himself from such a state where only one brain cell was left would have to be taxing on his remaining supplies, and even accepting the way he was able to regain his Perfect form without 18, that much of a power loss means either he shouldn't have been any stronger than he was during his previous round of getting beaten around by Gohan, or that he'd used up so much power that Vegeta's barrage of attacks should have been able to seriously hurt him.˛** Two possible explanations: 1. Cell's mix of genes allowed him to overcome that weakness of Namekian regeneration, or 2. Cell's power increase from being restored from near death was so massive, that it managed to not only overcome the fatigue loss as a result of the regeneration but increase Cell's power far beyond what it was before.˛** You forgot that Goku Threw Cell a senzu bean before his fight with Gohan which restored his energy.˛** Saiyans get stronger when they survive near-death experiences, embodying the term "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger." Cell was very nearly killed, considering even ''[[SmugSuper he]]'' didn't know he'd survive. The massive boost of strength allowed him to return to perfection and then some.˛˛* OK, why didn't Trunks bother to describe what the Androids looked like when he first came to them? Goku was right on target when he said, "Couldn't Trunks have given a picture of them to us or something?" Now, I know Trunks wouldn't take a camera and snap a photo of the Androids, but would it have killed him to tell them what they looked like in the first place?˛** Yea honestly it's a bit of a plot hole. I guess you could HandWave it by saying that Trunks just didn't think to describe them because he figured that two killer robots flying around blowing up cities would be hard to miss.˛*** It's a bigger plot hole than that when you think about it. While I can't think of a specific scene that confirms beyond a doubt that Trunks CAN sense energy levels I think it can be assumed that he can. With that in mind he not only neglected to mention what the Androids looked like but that you can't sense their energy! Considering the DBZ fighters are so accustomed to fighting because they can sense your energy and not see you that's a pretty important detail to have forgotten to mention. Since there is some evidence that fighter's durability is a conscious power (Not just the canon Krillin throw a rock at Goku, but also the one hit K.O. by Vegeta against Goku during the Buu Saga) it's possible that even 19 and 20 could have killed Goku the same way they did Yamcha. Sucker punch. After all who's on their guard around a little girl and her effeminate brother if they just come across you on the streets?˛*** Remember Trunks was only a toddler when the Androids first attacked, and the Androids have been his only real opponents his entire life. While Trunks probably knows how to sense energy, he's never had an enemy to fight where he'd even be able to use that to track them. It's something he simply doesn't think about, and it didn't occur to him to mention it. To him, not being able to sense your opponent's energy is normal, not an anomalous factor to be warned about.˛*** Trunks also came back to help the Z-Fighters that day. Perhaps he was planning on telling them then, or even looking for them himself? Then again he did give Goku and co. the location of the initial attack and assumed it would be obvious who the androids were once they started throwing ki-attacks.˛*** That last part doesn't make sense because it implies Trunks had no problem letting the androids still cause massive civilian harm before even attempting to stop them rather than preemptively trying to locate and stop them before the main attack.˛*** In his timeline Gero never got a chance to build 19 and robotize himself, going off Trunk's initial retelling of the events to Goku, and the story related imagery shows a human getting his head crushed, so at the least it was before he activated 19 to begin the process. And thereafter 17 and 18 destroyed the lab, so 16 was likely destroyed as well. So to quote the Abridged series "I only ever met the two!" And he's correct. However time doesn't like people mucking around, even for good causes. His telling the gang about the future caused it to change a la Terminator. Gero activated the twins earlier as a result, but was either able to foresee them trying to kill him, or was able to turn them off just before they could finish the job. Getting desperate, since they were his main method of attack outside of Cell, he likely had to fall back to the older design used by himself and 19.˛˛* Why didn't our heroes simply gather the Dragon Balls, wish for knowledge of Gero's location, and then go there and kill him, preventing the creation of the Androids?˛** That's what Bulma said. Plus, it's simple. It's because they thought that if they trained ahead of time, they would stand a chance against Gero and the Androids...I swear, it's all in the blood, but oh well, we wouldn't have a show if the heroes didn't make any poor decisions.˛** Several reasons, first Saiyans are deeply stupid and crave challenge, the idea of cheating to get around it is something Goku and Vegeta would rather die than attempt. Second Goku and the good characters probably think you can't punish someone for a crime they haven't committed yet even if your time traveling buddy thinks you should. Ultimately it wouldn't stop Cell anyway since he was hidden away and even Imperfect Cell is perfectly fatal to a bunch of people who have precisely one warrior capable of standing up to Freeza.˛** There's also the issue that they really don't know how far along in development the androids are, and going there right away would risk kick-starting Trunks' apocalypse earlier than they could be prepared for. It made more sense to play it safe and wait for a time where they could be counted on showing up and just train hard till then.˛** In addition Trunks would have done his best to veto this option. We already know that destroying the androids in our time/dimension doesn't retroactively destroy the ones in his time/dimension. He was hoping to learn from Goku how to defeat the androids which requires them to be activated so he can see them defeated not prevented from coming into existence.˛** How it goes is Bulma makes the offer, Vegeta threatens to kill anyone who tries, Goku says he wants to fight them and that it would be wrong to kill Gero before he's done anything wrong, Tien agrees with wanting to fight, and finally Krillin cites the need to have a common enemy to keep Vegeta occupied.˛˛* Okay, why don't androids have energy? I get why 16 and 19 don't. As far as we can tell they are pure robots, Gero is quite possibly pure robot but 17 and 18 aren't robots, they're enhanced humans. 18 is human enough to have a child. They should have energy just like every other living thing (which is the whole point of the Spirit Bomb is you can draw ki from the GRASS). Their ki shouldn't be on par with their power levels but I don't see any logical reason why they shouldn't be at least on par with say the Farmer Raditz killed or Mr. Turtle! ˛** Number one, the farmer doesn't even measure up to the loosest interpretation of formidable when it comes to ki in ''Dragon Ball''. Number two, Dr. Gero modified them enough that they could take a basic Super Saiyan easily with little-to-no training yet still be put to sleep via remote control. It actually makes sense that their human energy would be relatively impossible to catch. Number three, they're both shown later raising their hands to surrender the little ki they actually have to Goku's Spirit Bomb at the end of the Buu saga. So it's not that they don't have ki; it just doesn't stick out at all.˛˛* Okay, time travel gets real wonky real fast. Why does Trunks know the time and place of Goku's landing? The answer we're supposed to accept is that is where and when he landed in Trunk's timeline but all the evidence (aside from Trunk's knowledge) suggests that Goku DIDN'T land in Trunk's timeline. Freeza arrived and before he could kill anybody Goku used Instant Transmission and saved the day. It seems the location of the ship not only probably would have changed but without Goku being in the thing who cares about it?˛** It's still a cool piece of alien tech that Bulma probably would've wanted to work on.˛** Trunks said, "My tracking device still works with the original satellite! You rule, gramps!" He picked up Goku's ship on radar (courtesy of a Capsule Corporation satellite), and from that, he was able to project the time and place of Goku's landing.˛˛* This troper wonders exactly why the military just throw all their resources into attacking Cell and Majin Buu senselessly, without developing a real strategy. Wouldn't that needlessly cost them the lives of their soldiers, particularly the infantry? It seems completely stupid to have their infantry soldiers within range of where missiles, bombs, and shrapnel are exploding. ˛** The general public in the world of Dragon Ball....[[HumansAreMorons aren't too bright]] to say the least. Those scenes also serve the purpose of showing off how powerful and/or merciless the villains are though.˛*** You have a point.˛** What kind of strategy would have made any kind of difference?˛*** No Idea. But, [[DumbassMilitary you'd think that the military would've at least come up with something better]] than "Throw everything you have at him at the EXACT same time." Heck, there should be a trope for this.˛*** What, exactly, makes that a bad strategy, anyway? The fact it didn't work? ''Nothing'' they tried was going to work. That's the whole point. It's a singular target, with no resources to attack, and which is impossible to flank. Concentrating all your firepower on it is not in any way "idiotic."˛*** Except for the fact that you are sending your infantry to attack that single target as well, thus risking their lives unnecessarily.It makes to concentrate your attack with Artillery, Jets, and Vehicles... but not with regular infantry added into the mix; Machine Gunners would have to get close to the target in order to fire, putting them at greater risk of getting hit by your own units.They would be in the blast radius OF your long-range weaponry while they were firing; thus It is better for you to have them pulled back and used as escorts instead, so as to not risk any unnecessary casualties. If you want to concentrate the combined firepower of your artillery, tanks, missile launchers, snipers, and jets on a single target, fine, go ahead, but regular infantry would just get in the way. Hence why I say that they were "idiotic."˛*** Personally I've always wondered why they never attempted to just drop nukes on Cell. Not that it would have worked (it might even have made him a little stronger if it injured him enough and is Saiyan genes kicked in with Zenkai), but I could see a desperate military considering that when faced with a global threat like Cell. It's not like they'd have to worry much about injuring civilians since he was standing in the middle of a huge barren wasteland with his ring.˛˛* How exactly was Cell going to destroy the earth with his Kamehameha aimed tangentially to the earth's surface? I mean he was shooting it at Gohan, who was standing at the same ground level. I'm ready to accept though that Cell was a bit too unhinged for basic geometry at that point.˛** Most energy attacks explode, he probably means to incinerate Gohan and the remaining energy would make a large explosion to destroy the 'earth'(he said solar system later) ˛˛* Why are people weaker than Cell managing to blow him up? Vegeta and Goku both blast part of his body up, but as he has a much higher power level shouldn't they be unable to do that, just because loss of body bits isn't as fatal to him as others that shouldn't mean that weaker characters can damage his body, regeneration isn't needed unless a stronger person blasts you, like piccolo and nail but cell seems to be the only one who ends up needing it against people weaker than him. I guess its lucky for him he has regeneration or hed be the biggest pushover villain ever, imagine if Krillin could have blown Freezas head off, without regeneration hed be dead but since he's stronger than Krillin that could never happen, so why does it happen with Cell?˛** Probably two reasons. Out-of-universe it's just so we can see Cell (and later Buu) badly deformed and seemingly "near" death and then come back from it. In-universe Cell might be a weaker than we think, instead of splitting his power between offense and defense he dumps it all in offense because what does he care if half his body gets blown away? We know that defense is at least partially based on will and focusing energy.˛** Isn't the fact that Cell got his top blown off by Goku proof that Cell isn't that much stronger? Goku was still giving Cell a pretty good fight before the Kamehameha. As for Vegeta, Cell was intentionally baiting him, probably lowering his ki, only to realize at the last second that he underestimated the Final Flash.˛*** It's hard to tell how much anybody was holding back in any fight. It's implied that Cell was holding back against Goku. Vs Vegeta it depends on if you read the Manga, watch the Funimation dub or Kai. In the Manga it's a bit ambiguous (to me anyway) if Cell underestimated the Final Flash, the Funimation dub makes it clear that he didn't realize Vegeta could fire that much energy (even after five minutes to charge) in the Kai dub the opposite is true and he intentionally allowed himself to be injured just to screw with Vegeta. ˛*** Cell holding back against Goku always sounded like blowing smoke to me. He did the same thing against Vegeta as Semi-Perfect Cell; powered up, landed a punch on Vegeta/Gohan's face, only to realize they were barely affected by the blow, followed up by Vegeta/Gohan overpowering them without difficulty. The difference seems negligible, if existent at all. Cell was still pretty exhausted after his fight with Goku and might have actually been outmatched by [=FPSSJ=] Gohan without the Senzu.˛** Don't forget that this has occurred before in the series. Piccolo and Goku vs. Raditz had Piccolo's SBC kill Raditz, who was much more powerful than him. We also see Krillin's Kienzan slice through Frieza's tail. On top of that, from the same arc, Tien held back Imperfect Cell through Tri-Beam spamming, whereas I doubt he'd fare as well through simple punches. It's made quite clear that powerful techniques exceed the user's actual power level and can deliver final blows to stronger targets with enough charge time. What makes it unreliable is that stronger targets would have to be dumb enough to wait around for the target to charge (which does happen), or in the case of Tien his tri-beam is said in Dragonball to drain his life force and risks killing himself by using it. Unsure about Kienzan, however. Then on top of that the stronger, faster target can still dodge the blow.˛* Why did Gero build a computer for Project Cell? The original answer was that the project would take longer than he would live which makes sense. For a human. Which he wasn't in the end. Even accepting that perhaps he started Project Cell before starting on the other androids (which seems unlikely from the discussion he was having with #17) that seems like the sort of thing you'd personally watch over once you made yourself into an immortal.˛** Gero probably wouldn't want to devote all his time to Project Cell, time he could spend building more murderbots and whatever other plans he had in his head. Better to have a computer tend to Project Cell while he does other projects.˛** Maybe to avoid Alzheimer's making him unable to finish the project? He did have his brain planted directly into the robot body, and that doesn't necessarily make him immune from plaque build-up in the brain. Also the whole robot body thing might have failed and he didn't want to risk it, making him one of the more savvy bad guys in the series.˛** Gero is obsessed with revenge and a sadist. Build robots to monitor your project and then you can work on other things. We don't know what other projects he was working on, we only know about his more successful ones. Cell was just floating in a glass tank. Gero would have found it boring. He was probably working on other project and maybe experimenting on more victims.˛* Granted it likely wouldn't have accomplished much of anything but why didn't Piccolo pick up Gero's lab? And what exactly were those doors made out of that the Z Warriors couldn't casually tear them down?˛** Dr. Gero's an android, thus Piccolo wouldn't be able to sense the direction Gero was headed to. He (and the others) would have to search the area using sight. Did you mean blow up? Well, Trunks did decimate the lab (not the basement part, obviously) almost immediately after 17 and 18 were awoken in an attempt to destroy them. As for the metal? Well, good question. I think it was just for suspense purposes, because if they simply barged in before 17 and 18 awoke and killed Dr. Gero, then the saga would end almost right then and there.˛*** Piccolo knew exactly where Gero was. Behind the giant doors that the people who can all destroy moons and planets for whatever reason couldn't tear down. Trunks likely wouldn't have allowed them to kill the Androids before they woke, nor would Vegeta. He didn't want to prevent the android rampage (and for all his concern likely didn't care much) what he wanted was to see Goku (specifically) and the Z Fighters (in general) defeat the Androids so he could replicate it back home. Which still doesn't answer why Piccolo who has picked up entire mountains for training purposes didn't try that if the doors and walls were made out of. . .whatever they were made out of that stopped them longer than tissue paper.˛* I don't get why villains in fiction would want to destroy the universe. What if Cell had won? What if he destroyed every planet in the universe? He will be floating around space for all eternity. He will be bored out of his skull with nothing to do.˛** He was programmed to do that by Dr Gero. While I admit that the whole "I'm going to destroy the universe!" shtick is overdone big time, Dr Gero himself wanted to exact revenge on all life [[DisproportionateRetribution because his precious Red Ribbon army was decimated by Goku]], and what better way to do that than create an EdritchAbomination with cells from the universe's strongest fighters? ˛** It's not that common, most want to conquer it. Cell most likely had no intention of destroying the universe. He was going to blow up the Earth mostly in a final act of pettiness because like Freeza he couldn't stand being defeated and would rather everybody die than him lose. He was probably bluffing about blowing up the sun since he was clearly aiming at Gohan. It would have been interesting to see what Cell would have done after killing the Z Warriors. Considering that he craved a challenge enough to give the Z-Warriors ten days to train (it's a good thing for him the ROSAT has limitations since the Buu Saga suggests all the Saiyans would be past him in just seven days.) he would have been bored out of his mind for sure but it wouldn't be a surprise if he'd immediately started searching the universe for worthy opponents not just blowing stuff. Either that or he would have settled into Freeza's job as intergalactic tyrant but that seems unlikely.˛* Why didn't Gero build a stronger android body? He knew Android 17 and 18 were not easy to control. Come to think of it, why build androids? Why not make a powerful body and take on Goku and the Z-warriors himself?˛** Good question. I guess he's just that much of a sadistic narcissist, filled with so much ego that he can't conceive that there could possibly be a better plan than the one he came up with.˛** In-universe, Gero's body had energy absorption abilities that ''eventually'' would have allowed him to surpass 17 and 18, who were kind of static. Out of universe, Dr. Gero and 19 were supposed to be the main villains, 17 and 18 were tacked on when Toriyama's editor looked at their designs and said "Make something more threatening."˛** Gero's gimmick, for the most part, is "mad scientist", not "mad guinea pig". He builds androids to kill Goku for him because they can absorb all the risk; he's pragmatic that way. The problem is, androids have an extremely lopsided failure-to-success ratio. The first sixteen androids, all built from scratch? Don't work. Androids 17 and 18, made from human bases? ''Really'' don't work. It takes until Android 19 to get an android that does work, and even he's probably a bit of a let-down, all things considered. Gaining immortality from putting your own brain into an android body and fighting your nemesis on the front lines might sound cool, but it's also very, very, dangerous for Gero, and he has to rely on 19's help for almost all of it. Becoming Android 20 isn't actually a good plan; it's a Hail Mary.˛* Why didn't Vegeta move to save baby Trunks when Gero attacked him and Bulma? I get he didn't care about Bulma and had no paternal affections, but he's said a few times he wants to restore the Saiyan race, so shouldn't he be concerned about the life of his heir, even just for that reason?˛** It's been a while since I've watched the show, but Vegeta seemed to always want to talk about how the Saiyans were once this pure, noble race of super space warriors. He's made it very clear he dislikes Gohan because not only is he the son of a low-level warrior, but he's also a half-breed. If he dislikes Gohan, imagine how badly he dislikes Trunks. As far as he's concerned, he, ''Prince Vegeta'', is the last pure-blooded rightful Saiyan and Goku? Begrudgingly accepted as the only other Saiyan alive, but he's low-level trash and a painful thorn in Vegeta's side. Trunks? Pah, he's just an exceptionally strong human, no different than Yamcha or Krillin and we've seen how well he treats them.˛** It's not like Trunks is the only child he'll ever have unless he so chooses. Even assuming that he truly doesn't care, he could always have another kid with Bulma or even with someone else. Given Vegeta's rage when Future Trunks is killed, however, you can just assume that he's just trying to be a tough guy and that he actually does care. It's highly possible that Vegeta is simply being too proud to admit that he cares about his child since that's not the Saiyan way.˛** Remember that the Saiyans are a race that regularly put newborns in space pods, launch them to foreign worlds, and then just kind of forget about them until they destroy the place. A Saiyan's concept of protecting a child seems to amount to, "Eh, they can take care of themselves, and if they can't, they're not worth the effort of saving."˛* In that filler episode during the three years of training, ChiChi decides that she's had enough of having to walk all the way from their remote home to the city to buy groceries and stuff, which is understandable. But why does she decide to make Goku and ''Piccolo'' learn to drive when that would just mean she'd need Goku to drive her places, instead of getting a car for herself when she's been shown driving on more than one occasion. Or better yet, why didn't she ask Goku to just teach her to fly?˛** There's really no reason why she wouldn't. As said on another page, that whole episode runs on RuleOfFunny. ˛** Hm, my thoughts? ChiChi wants a normal life, for which a car would be more suitable than being able to fly. Why Piccolo? Spite, probably, she already doesn't like him, after all.˛* After blowing up Dr. Gero's lab, Android 18 is shown easily holding up 16's chamber with him inside up above her head with one hand, so how does it fit that when he's later injured by Cell she has trouble helping him fly away to the point where they have to give up after just a few miles?˛** Rule of Drama. Reasonably, she would have no trouble at all carrying 16 to safety.˛** Maybe the pod had some sort of repulsorlift tech inside it for lab crews to move it if needed. So it reduced the weight of the assembly. ˛* We've been over the foolishness of Dr. Gero's choice to make himself into an energy-absorbing android instead of the more powerful unlimited-battery type. But he did something far stupider than that when he turned himself into an android. Why keep the remote control for 17 and 18 in the form of handheld device? There's no logical reason he couldn't have placed it inside his own android body, directly wired to his brain. That way he'd be able to shut them down whenever they were disobedient just by thinking about it, and would never have to worry about about somebody taking the controller away from him.˛** Fanwank: He did install it within himself, and installed it in his arm, the same arm that was severed earlier. It was just very bad luck, you see.˛** Gero put ''his own brain'' into a robot body. It's a highly delicate procedure, and Gero probably didn't want to risk getting brain damage from wiring a self-destruct button to his nervous system.˛* Would the Cell Juniors be considered Cell's sons like Demon King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr? Are they just dimwitted copies of Cell?˛** They're pretty much Cell's children, seeing as how he has Piccolo's Namekian cells and could probably reproduce asexually with much more success when his form was perfect than when he was in a weaker form. He even refers to them as his "offspring" (in Kai anyway) and refers to them as his "beloved children" (in the original Funimation dub) ˛* Why are the androids from the future so willing to kill in comparison to the modern androids? If the androids from the modern era had wanted to they would have killed everybody during their first encounter. Which is apparently what happened in the original timeline. Otherwise Piccolo would have merged with Kami and while Goku is the one who thought it up Piccolo was fully aware of the Room of Space and Time and Vegeta and Gohan plus a year in the Time Chamber equals two very dead androids. So it's fairly obvious that Gohan never used the Time Chamber because had he destroying the androids would have been child's play.˛** Dr Gero likely intended to make the Androids more violent in order to kill people [[DisproportionateRetribution because of his defeats]]/[[ForTheEvulz funzies.]] With Goku being alive, there wasn't time to do that.˛˛˛* Why didn't 18 flee underwater from Cell? Even if she needs to breathe the speed she travels at could easily have her well out of Cells sight by the time she's forced to surface long enough to get a breath.˛** Cell has Goku's DNA, and Goku is shown to be a pretty good swimmer. We don't know if 18 can swim anyway.˛*** Cell was not swimming, he was above the islands looking down. He obviously could "swim" he has Frieza DNA and it's confirmed later that he can survive in space. It probably just didn't occur to 18 that fleeing underwater was an option for her, she's a cyborg and fundamentally thinks like a human not taking full advantage of things she can do. All DBZ characters of any worth can "swim" however. In this case, swim means however they fly they should be able to do that in water as easily (or easier) than in the air. They don't fly like birds or rockets via propulsion of some sort. They are perfectly capable of hovering in place seemingly with only slightly more effort than standing. They simply reject gravity and choose to move in a direction. Absolutely nothing shown gives reason to think that will work any worse underwater. ˛** The Abridged Series suggests it's because 16, with a hole in his head, couldn't go underwater. 18 didn't want to leave him.˛** Also, flying underwater at speed would not be a stealthy getaway -- she'd leave an enormous wake, which when viewed from above is literally an arrow pointing directly at her.˛˛* Does the ROSAT have some special properties that allow your training to be more effective than it would otherwise be? Vegeta alternated training at 100g and deep space training for years, but according to Trunks two months in the ROSAT was enough for him to push all the way to full power Super Saiyan. That's a HUGE boost in a very short period of time. As far as we can tell Goku didn't get a whole lot stronger over the time skip either.˛** It's probably an optional thing. You could try the super hard you-must-be-super-powered-to-the-limit, or you could go with training normally for a whole year in a day.˛*** The question is about why two months in the ROSAT is apparently better than two years of training under what seem to be harsher conditions. However, the answer appears to be simple. Ignoring NewPowersAsThePlotDemands being in full effect it's implied that Vegeta thought a Super Saiyan was the absolute pinnacle of strength and it somehow didn't occur to him that it was even possible to get any stronger until he got his ass handed to him by a glorified toaster. Same with Goku, his training was probably aimed at bringing Piccolo and Gohan as close to his level as possible not at making himself any stronger. That, of course, begs the question of why he didn't push Gohan through to SS though. Sure the outcome would have been the same either way since the Androids were mopping the floor with Vegeta and Trunks one more Super Saiyan wouldn't have made much difference but still. ˛*** Two things: The ROSAT has perpetual 10g. Just eating, resting, and sleeping in that for a year will make you much stronger. Second thing, Gohan was likely not anywhere near the weight class necessary to be a Super Saiyan until after the three years of training. He probably didn't train at all since the fight with Freeza and Piccolo and Goku had their own training to deal with as well. Only after the three years could it be feasible that Gohan was strong enough to be a Super Saiyan, however he lacked the emotional urgency for it at the time and unlike Vegeta does not have the willpower to push himself through suicidal conditions to get strong enough. Only after both the Androids and Cell proved too much for the group, did it seem like Gohan realized he had to become a Super Saiyan if he was going to be any help at all in the fight.˛*** Perhaps after achieving Super Saiyan status, the hardest part was out of the way, and from there it was just a matter of having enough time and an absence of distractions to push the form further.˛˛* When Cell tried to absorb 17 and 18, why didn't the pair just detonate the bombs inside of them? Forgotten Phlebotinum?˛** Several reasons. Starting with 17 he honestly believed that between himself and 16 that Cell would be killed and then got blindsided. 18 did threaten to blow herself up and Cell explained (possibly bluffing) that he was enough faster than her that he'd absorb her before the bomb could go off. That and both of them wanted to live.˛*** Still, it's better to be dead than inside a green insect. In ''Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3'', he even exclaims that he doesn't want to be absorbed by Cell or something along that. ˛*** It still boils down to Android 17 was arrogant, it's practically his only character trait at all. Android 18 didn't believe she had the time to do it. Had 17 not believed that there was nothing in the universe that could challenge himself and 16 (which had Cell not come out of nowhere or had 16 and 17 stuck close enough together that 16 could protect his weaker brother was probably true even of imperfect Cell, he certainly would have stood zero chance of defeating 16, 17, 18 and Piccolo) he may very well have blown himself up and 18 simply didn't believe it would make a difference. She may have been completely bluffed but we don't know.˛˛* When did Eighteen kiss Kuririn? And why? Also, why did 17 gesture to Kuririn to come closer when they first see the androids? Is he an Android magnet or something?˛** 18 kissed Krillin on the cheek after she broke both of Vegeta's arms and dispatched the other Z Warriors. Why? Because she found him cute. Why 17 gestured to Krillin to come closer? Because he could see Krillin was insanely close to pissing himself. So, ForTheEvulz.˛˛* Why did Android 16 stay dead? I could understand if it were because of the fact that he was never a living person like 17 and 18 were and thus couldn't be revived, but Android 8 was revived after Earth was destroyed during the Majin Buu Saga. And Android 8 is a full Android and was never a person. So why couldn't 16 come back if 8 could?˛** Perhaps he was alive enough to have a say in the matter, and simply found the afterlife to be more beautiful?˛** Android 8 is a not-so-subtle reference to Frankenstein, right? Maybe, like the real thing, he's made of dead body parts. Thus, perhaps he qualifies more as a living thing than the purely machine 16?˛˛* So why didn't Future Bulma just give Trunks the general location of Dr. Gero's lab? Even if we assume that Trunks wanted to see how the Androids could be defeated (which could be done just as easily just by having Goku train a lot and go to Future Trunks' timeline) wouldn't knowing even the general area help a lot in making sure that the mad scientist who makes hero-killing soldiers can't find a way to cause more trouble?˛** First, time travel is really finicky. There are something like four confirmed timelines already as is explained several times above. There is little guarantee that Trunks could actually return Goku back to his timeline even if he wanted to. Second I don't think Trunks believed it was possible to become more powerful than a Super Saiyan. Vegeta doesn't come to the realization until a glorified toaster hands him his ass, Goku apparently hears Vegeta's rage in his dreams and decides clearly is a Super Saiyan lost a fight then that's not the pinnacle. Gohan just kind of follows the plan and Trunks is flat out skeptical. He was looking for some kind of trick. Which turns out did exist (the off switch) and in one unseen timeline they use. Trunks then returns to the future and gets killed by Cell attempting to come back and tell the heroes mission accomplished. In addition look at the time and date Trunks comes back to, (and temporarily ignore how insane it is that someone with a fucking time machine was LATE instead of arriving exactly when they meant to) Dr. Gero was supposed to already be dead killed by 17 and 18 by the time he arrived and to the best of his knowledge in the sixteen years between the deaths of the Z-Fighters and him using the time machine precisely zero new events from Dr. Gero have happened.˛* How exactly was Trunks late? It's a time machine!˛** It's rather wonky when it comes to hours. Of course, he could have just shown up a couple of days earlier, but it's a reoccurring point that Trunks isn't that bright.˛** Alternatively, he may have done his research, learned that Frieza had attacked three hours before Goku's arrival and decided to go take care of Frieza himself.˛*** It was established that the Time Machine was imperfect, so it was more of a dimension jumper. The timelines operate on SanDimasTime where they act independent of eachother's clock.˛* What was the point of Dr. Gero hiding his true identity from the Z Warriors? He was planning to kill them and rule the world. Also, did Android 19 think Dr. Gero was just another android, or was he aware Gero was his creator?˛** It's impossible to know what Android 19 thought other than he knew Dr. Gero was his superior. As for Gero was he even hiding his identity? I'd always sort of assumed he just didn't bother introducing himself formally to a bunch of people he was planning to kill. Also, unfortunately, DBZ gives us a painfully small sample size to work with as far if Dr. Gero should have reasonably assumed he would be recognized on sight. Bulma does and it's implied that it's because their both scientists and all scientists know each other. But the Z-Fighters as a whole are clearly ignorant to culture. They don't recognize Hercule on sight and it's all but stated he's their version of Mike Tyson and Hulk Hogan all rolled into one. Gero was also an integral part of an army that nearly conquered the world. So again he may very well have presumed that he needed no introduction.˛*** In the English version, Gero does flat out deny his identity to the Z fighters; he talks about himself in the third person and when Piccolo calls him out on hyping Gero up so much that it sounds like he is Gero, he says that's absurd and claims to just be an artificial life form created by Gero. As for why I have no real idea beyond it may just be Gero trying to distance himself from his own mortality and embrace his new existence as Android 20, but it's hard to say, especially as the act is more or less dropped after Bulma spills the beans.˛˛* Why did Trunks always hold Vegeta in high esteem? I know that he wants to have a good relationship with his father since the one in his timeline is dead but, all things considering, shouldn't seeing Vegeta allowing the most powerful android ever reach his ultimate form just so he might have a good fight completely break whatever positive image Trunks had of his father at that point? But no, all Trunks could care about was not using his full power to fight Cell in front of his dad so Vegeta's ego wouldn't get bruised.˛** He doesn't have a father in his timeline. He wants to see his father happy, or at least, as a proud warrior. It's normal for sons to surpass their fathers, but still, he wants him to be happy. Even is Vegeta is an utter dick.˛*** The problem is that isn't really a biological thing. He was raised by Gohan and that is who he should have looked up to as a father figure/ big brother. ˛* Looking at Trunk's flashbacks of the Z-warriors, which were in fact just stories told to him, it looks like all the relevant fighters were killed by the Androids initially. Assuming they went and killed Roshi for some reason after that Popo, Korin and Yajirobe are all around and the androids have no way of sensing energy so you could hide from them indefinitely. Why didn't ANY of them come find Gohan and Trunks? Even if you pretend that none of the three of them were aware of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber which would have at absolute worst solved all their problems in three days they could train pretty much to their content on the Lookout without being randomly spotted.˛** They're all mostly [[IdiotHero morons]], and Gohan likely never heard of this chamber before.˛*** Or maybe the androids destroyed Kami's lookout and the time chamber with it.˛* How did Android 16 get an image of Goku in his Super Saiyan form, as seen in his memory banks when Bulma went through it in "Meet Me In the Ring"? He never saw Goku in that form by that point, neither did Dr Gero, hence his surprise at Goku and Vegeta's Transformation.˛* If the main Cell hadn't come to the main timeline, does that mean Trunks and the Z Warriors would have killed the androids? According to timeline #3, Trunks somehow defeated the androids. I wish we could have seen how timeline 3 played out. I'm assuming Trunks killed Android 17, 18, and 16 (possibly with the help of Super Namek Piccolo).˛** While we don't know for certain the answer is fairly obvious based on observations. Timeline 3 Trunks is killed by Imperfect Cell which means he never trained in the ROSAT. The most likely answer becomes that Bulma somehow found out about the remote, they build a remote, shut down the Androids and destroy them that way. ˛* If Cell can regenerate from a single cell, why does punching or kicking him seem to wound him? Shouldn't he be shrugging these injuries off after regenerating the cells that were damaged in the blow?˛** Probably the same reason it hurts Namekians too. He has to expend power to actually withstand the blows which would wear him down over time and any force that does get through would still give him pain. It's not like he actually maintains ''wounds'' during the fights. Being able to regenerate on its own doesn't mean you can ignore things altogether like Buu who was magic and made of goo.˛* Future Android 17 and 18 are teens who like to have fun, right? What happens when they kill everyone on the planet? What would they do after that? Roam the empty earth for hundreds of years? Wouldn't it make sense to keep some humans alive? They might need an audience, or people to pass the time. Just keep torturing the same people over and over. If all the humans and animals die, then they will be bored for all eternity (assuming they're immortal).˛** Because they're teenagers and teenagers don't necessarily think through all the consequences of their actions. Kind of a defining trait of teenagers.˛** They probably left larger populations alive than we think. Considering that androids, other than 16, can neither sense energy themselves or be sensed the fact that they've had multiple encounters with Gohan and Trunks suggests they are all staying in a rather small geographic area. Since neither party has any real way of finding the other.˛** As the above troper said, they were more localized around the same few cities, the whole Earth didn't seem to be vaporized.˛* What the heck did Cell say before he died? Was it "I'll be back" or "I am Perfect"?˛** He said, "NOOO! [[AGodAmI I...AM...PERFEEEECT!!! ]][[KilledMidSentence AAAAauauuugghh....]]" *is disintegrated* Seriously though: He said "I am perfect!" because he didn't want to believe he was being killed by a shrimpy kid with one arm. ˛* Why is Cell considered an android? He looks like an organic being. There are no microchips, nuts, or bolts inside him.˛** This is a case of the Japanese language being a bit flexible at times. The term used in the Japanese, Jizonigen, translates roughly as "artificial human". 16 and 19 are actual Androids, as in robots through and through. Gero is technically cyborg but since he's just a brain that's kinda pushing it. 17 and 18 are actually cyborgs. They were human and Gero performed some sort of surgery on them that gave them their powers. Which is why 18 can get pregnant, she's still far more human than robot. Cell is some sort of chimera or bio-android but he still fits under the umbrella of artificial.˛* I'm not sure if this subject has been touched on but this troper will write about it anyway. One thing about the Future Trunk's timeline that bothers me is this. Why didn't Future Goku contact Future Gohan from the afterlife? You know, a little bit of instant transmission to King Kai's planet and ask if he could speak to Gohan. Like in the lines of "Hey son, I figured out that you can reach a level beyond the Super Saiyan also you can go train on Kami's Lookout for 1 year worth of training in 1 day as well. Mister Popo will hook you up."˛** Goku's an IdiotHero. Also, its possible that he didn't get to keep his body this time around and/or had forgotten about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.˛** The most likely answer is that he simply didn't achieve a level higher than Super Saiyan in that universe for any number of reasons. Remember in our universe Vegeta is the one who actually comes up with the idea after being spared by 17 and 18 and Goku psychically hears it and agrees. Vegeta didn't survive in the alternate timeline, presumably went to HFIL so even if he had the idea would be unable to communicate it to Goku.˛* In the dubbed anime (not sure about the manga), there's a moment in the Cell Games when Goku is preparing what would be his Instant Teleportation Kamehameha. Everyone thinks he's going to blow the Earth up, shouting at him to not do what he's about to do. Question: Why would they ever think this? When had Goku ever shown that he's willing to blow up planets to defeat his enemies? Was this just an excuse to shoehorn in some drama before we figured out what he was really doing?˛** He's charging up a full powered blast and pointing it straight down at the Earth. They're worried that he's going to blow up the planet because from all appearances that's exactly what it looks like he's about to do.˛** In addition to the above it might not be a bad move if things were desperate enough. Cell was was evil, it's entirely probable he might destroy the Earth if he won, in which case Goku killing Cell and destroying the Earth in the process at least spares the rest of the universe from having Cell running around.˛** What happens is, Goku starts charging the Kamehameha and everyone panics about it destroying the earth if fired. Then they calm down because there's no way Goku would do that. Then Goku keeps charging it up and they go back to panicking because oh geez he's really gonna do it.˛* Future Trunks says in his timeline all the heroes die at the hands of the androids because Goku died of a heart disease and couldn't be there to defeat them. But Goku does absolutely nothing in the main timeline until the Cell games. In the future timeline, wouldn't Kami have merged with Piccolo and beaten the androids and then Cell later? The need was great and Goku was gone, so Kami would have done it.˛** Kami may not have had the chance to merge with Piccolo. In our time the Androids were apparently in a good mood and didn't kill anybody following their initial encounter despite having every one of the Z-Warriors dead to rights. In Trunk's time Gohan is the only one who survived that encounter. There is also the possibility that Kami wouldn't merge, the androids were running around and he continued to delay until he sensed Cell. Finally merged Piccolo was fighting 17 to a standstill, that fight could easily have gone either way. Without a senzu bean it's highly unlikely he would have survived 18 immediately after that. As for Cell he was winning a fight with 16, 17 and Piccolo so while it does depend on how many people he managed to absorb prior to running into Piccolo that fight could also easily go poorly. Finally Goku being gone doesn't by definition make the situation dire. By that point they had Vegeta who according to Piccolo was stronger at the start of the Android Saga than Goku.˛*** Depending on the translation, the alternate Androids from Trunks' future are actually significantly weaker than their counterparts in the main series for reasons never fully explained; though they're significantly more malevolent. Future 17 & 18 are about on par with a SSJ, maybe a little above, but it's generally implied that Trunks or Future Gohan could potentially beat them one on one, but always lose due to being ganged up on. Though other translations and the history of trunks special go the other way and say they're just as strong as their counterparts but usually hold back for fun. Anyway, point being, assuming the former explanation is the case, then a fused Kami-Piccolo would have certainly been able to take them both out at once, but due to their greater bloodlust, they didn't let him live long enough to try.˛** As for why Trunks and Future Bulma thought Goku would make that much of a difference, keep a few things in mind; Bulma is Goku's oldest friend and she has a nostalgia for him as well as a certain savvy most of the characters have about Goku being the win button for their group. Bulma also doesn't know much about the mystical side of things in the DBZ universe and might not have known Piccolo and Kami could fuse, and even if she did, she might not have realized that doing so would have given him the massive boost that it did; she might have thought it would simply add Kami's power to Piccolo and Kami was significantly weaker than Raditz. Piccolo and Kami fusing also costs them the dragon balls, so they might have figured that while neither is as strong as the fused Namekian, Goku and Vegeta teaming up as Super Saiyans would have been enough to tip the balance without costing the dragon balls if things went south.˛* Okay, Trunks kill Cell and the Androids in the future timeline and lives happily ever after...or does he?!! I'll buy that Babadi would have trouble releasing Buu since Trunks is the only super powerful being on earth, but what about Beerus? Even if you ignore Dragon Ball Super and accept Dragon ball GT as canon in your head, Trunks would have Baby to deal with. No matter what canon universe you go by, Future Trunks is screwed.˛** Just because something happened in the prime timeline does not mean it will happen in a future alternate one. Especially considering Prime Trunks is ''younger'' when most of those things happen than Future Trunks is when he came back.˛** Almost nobody ever accepted GT as cannon, even before Super came along and formally erased it. Having said that Beerus most likely wouldn't arrive at all. He comes looking for a Saiyan and is guided to King Kai's place because of Goku and Earth because of Vegeta. With both of them dead the Saiyans are Extinct. Baby tracks the heroes to Earth after they go to space. If they stay on Earth Baby will likely never find them.˛** Beerus would probably not even ''want'' to find the Saiyans. The only reason he did so was because he had a prophetic dream about fighting a Super Saiyan God, who ended up being Goku. In Trunks's future, there's no way for a Super Saiyan God to be formed, so Beerus would never have his prophetic dream.˛* Why didn't Muten Roshi train Gohan and Trunks in the future timeline? In terms of power he may be outclassed, but he's extremely skilled in multiple forms of hand-to-hand and his Bankoku Bikkuri Shō (that is, the lightning attack he used on Goku at the 21st Tenkaichi) would have been useful.˛** Presumably the same reason Mr. Popo didn't take them to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber/ROSAT which would have solved their problem in a day or two tops. Somehow the androids found and slaughtered them. Or it never occurred to Gohan or Bulma. Mind you Gohan and Trunks were both stronger than them at that point anyhow.˛* Why didn't Future Bulma provide Gohan and Trunks with battle armour? She was already able to manufacture it when the Androids showed up...˛** Honestly because it probably makes no difference. We are never given any reason to believe that armor in DBZ really protects you from significant amounts of damage.˛* Why does (present) Bulma make her armours only in the design Vegeta wears? I can understand that Vegeta may want his own in a typically Saiyan design, but it leaves uncovered areas compared to [[ Earthly designs]], whose form would have also have the benefit of making them acceptable to Tien (who didn't want to wear that armour ''precisely'' because it was a Saiyan design).˛* Why didn't Dr. Gero erase/alter Android 17 and 18's memories while they were "sleeping" in their capsules? He kidnapped these teens and turned them into cyborgs, so it shouldn't have been a surprise to him that these two would defy him. Why did he allow them to keep their memories and personalities? It's obvious they still remember their past lives as humans.˛** He probably can't. As stated above 17 and 18 aren't actually androids. They are cyborgs. The difference being an android is an actual robot like 16. You can take him apart do whatever you please. 17 and 18 have some robotic parts but are essentially human, human enough that 18 goes on to give birth to a thus far completely normal baby girl. We don't know how he got 17 and 18 to hate Goku but real life brainwashing techniques can explain that. Actually altering their memories or even personalities seems to be above and beyond their capabilities.˛˛* I know Cell came from a future timeline, but what about the present timeline Cell?˛** The one that Krillin aborted when they searched the basement of Gero's lab?˛˛* So we know from when Trunks went Ascended Super Saiyan level 3, he gained incredible physical strength, but his muscles became so bulky they reduced his speed greatly. So basically they became the organic equivalent of the weighted clothing that drastically reduced Goku and Piccolo's ki output levels at the beginning of the series. The question is why Trunks, Goku and presumably Vegeta couldn't spend the time in the ROSAT to try and mitigate this drawback by staying at level 3 for an extended period of time, getting adjusted to the power/stamina consumption that would be experienced, and working to become accustomed to the extra bulk to the point it didn't slow them down? We've already seen that Vegeta can move at well over 100 times earth's normal gravity, so he can withstand his body weighing more than five tons, so it's not like another hundred or so pounds of muscle in normal gravity would put that much of a strain on the body.˛** It wasn't about becoming "accustomed" to it. It just plain was not possible to retain speed with that bulk, no matter how much they practiced. (Also, it's level 2, not 3 -- 3 is the giant hair mode Goku fights Buu in).˛** Super Saiyan third grade then. Nonetheless, we've seen characters able to move fast even when carrying a great deal of weight. Goku managed to move fast enough to catch Bubbles and Gregory on King Kai's planet, despite the gravity making his weighted clothing weigh a literal ton and a half, in addition to however much his body weighed at the time. We've also seen Goku train with 40 tons of weight during the Buu saga. If all that's possible, shouldn't a simple 100 or so pounds of extra muscle prove to be trivial to manage under normal gravity with enough practice?˛** It's not the weight, it's the ''mass''. The muscles are too physically big, and get in their own way. As an example, Arnold Schwarzenegger had to lose weight and muscle mass between being Mr. Universe and playing [[Film/ConanTheBarbarian1982 Conan the Barbarian]] explicitly because the huge, bulky muscles he developed for bodybuilding meant he was physically incapable of wielding a sword properly. He was still plenty strong enough to lift the sword and swing it with considerable force, but he was too damn big to use it with any sort of technique.˛** On top of that, this is the first time in the entire series where increased mass slowed anyone down. Dodoria and Android 19 weren't slow for their size. Several other characters have used larger forms without diminished speed: Oozaru Vegeta, Oozaru Gohan, Zarbon, Frieza, and even Cell himself. They throw all of that out the window just to have Trunks lose.˛** Cell doesn't use a large bulky form -- the larger form he uses is still appropriately proportioned. As for the others, they were way in the past -- at a point where trading off speed for power didn't mean as much, and the power made up for the loss of speed. Also note that Freeza's most powerful form is ''smaller'' than the two previous forms. Again, drawing from real life here -- if you have two wrestlers, one at 150 lbs, the other at 250, the 250 pounder is going to win no matter how slow he is, because he's ''that'' much bigger and stronger. But if you have two wrestlers at 250 pounds, the winner is going to be the one who's faster and thus better able to use what he has instead of just relying on size and strength.˛** Cell's imperfect form had a lot of insectoid influences, including the head, wings, and tail. Then he becomes bigger, bulkier, and his feet change, but manages to outclass everyone except someone stronger than him with no problems caused by the change in proportions. Just like when Freeza went from his smallest form (1st form) to a much bigger 2nd form, and then the third had so much extra weight up top he bent over from it. And this was a guy that took a Super Saiyan to beat. And while his fourth form was smaller than all but his first form, he then had to bulk up like Trunks to reach full power, with no resulting loss in speed. Considering that Oozaru were strong enough to tip the balance in a war fought by Saiyans, I expect they were strong enough that it would matter if they lost speed. As far as real life examples go, 150 lb. jiu-jitsu black belt Pedro Sauer beat 250 lb. Lance Bachelor. First thing that came up in a google search for a fight like that. Skill matters, and Trunks has spent far more time training and fighting than Cell. But DBZ had to throw out everything the series established about mass and speed so they could have Trunks lose this one. Speed is a big deal, but it had also clearly been linked directly to strength for the entirety of the show up to this point.˛˛* While Cell has justifiable reasons to be so strong, its still hard to fathom how 17 & 18 are so much more powerful than Frieza, robotic reconstruction or not. While Frieza's increase in power from becoming a cyborg is speculative seeing as he was dispatched before making much use of it, Trunks didn't consider him much of a threat either way. It seems far-fetched that earth cyborgs, made of earth technology and using earthly materials would be superior to a cyborg built by the Galactic Frieza Army, an advanced empire with access to technology and materials found throughout space. Not to mention that said mechanical form is integrated with the body of the already-powerful Frieza (chunks of it anyway), versus cybernetics integrated with the bodies of once-ordinary human teenagers. SortingAlgorithmOfEvil seems like the only excuse for this unless humans are just ''that'' good with science when they try.˛** Frieza's upgrades were a rush job to save his life with no understanding of what happened beyond him getting caught in Namek's explosion and, in the anime at least, he opted to attack earth once he woke up. The Androids were the result of 10 odd years of R&D with a clear understanding of Gero's enemies.˛˛* Why didn't Bulma and Dr Brief inform 16 that they had removed his self-destruct feature!? It was thanks to this lack of communication that he got killed, as him pointlessly trying to blow himself up with Cell resulted in him getting reduced to a head, which in turn meant that he had no way of defending against or avoiding Cell's attacks when he was talking to Gohan.˛** They didn't fully trust 16 at the time. For all they knew, Gero still had a cache of supplies somewhere that 16 could use to rearm himself.˛˛* Forgive me if this was explained, but why did Future Trunks believe he needed to fight Frieza? IIRC, he says that he thought Goku would arrive too late to stop him, so he intervened. Goku then explains that he could have been there instantly with his new teleportation ability, and Trunks says if he had known that he wouldn't have bothered. But wouldn't that have been exactly what happened in Trunks' own timeline? Why would Trunks not know about this?˛** I don't think anyone other than Goku knew about Instant Transmission.˛*** The point is that Trunks should have known about Goku's IT from looking at past events, what with him being from the future.˛** Perhaps Trunks didn't know the exact circumstances of the original battle and assumed Frieza arriving before Goku was [[ButterflyOfDoom somehow the result of his meddling with time]] rather than the way things were supposed to play out. So he intervened to prevent Frieza from being able to destroy the Earth and/or Z Fighters in this timeline, not knowing it was unnecessary.˛** The exact details may never have come up. Trunks is a baby when all the Z warriors minus Gohan are killed. Bulma might not know the details since in the original timeline she most likely wasn't involved at all in this particular adventure to tell Trunks about it. The real question about why he intervened deals with the fact that he knows how the Z warriors do die and it wasn't Frieza. So Goku or no Goku the rest of them were somehow going to stall long enough or break through or SOMETHING.˛** I just figured Trunks did his research, learned about Freeza’s attack on Earth and decided he’ll just go ahead and take care of that little bug first, then chill for a few hours for Goku’s arrival. ˛** Killing Freeza also has the benefit of showing Goku and the others that he's on their side, and gives them a reason to trust him enough to speak to him.˛˛* Why didn't Gero make himself at least as powerful as 17 and 18, if not more?˛** It might not have been possible. We don't really know much about the process he used on 17 and 18 but they are either teens or twenty-somethings in pretty good shape vs an old man who had to transfer his brain into a robot body so he could survive.˛*** If that's what the reason was, why not collect the Dragon Balls (or rather, send 19 to do it for him) and wish for his youth to be restored first? He was in the Red Ribbon Army, after all, so he should know all about the Dragon Balls and probably knows how to make a Dragon Radar (since the RRA had one).˛˛* Why didn't Trunks bring the Dragonballs from the past to the future and use them to restore his world? Or he could have brought Dende into the future and had him create new Dragonball for them to use. He could even have had his mother find New Namek, past or future and gotten a Namekian to be the new guardian of Earth and create new Dragonballs.˛** In all likelihood the Dragon Balls would go inert once he left this dimension, Dende shows up part way through the Saga not at the very start, the one year rule was still in effect so the Dragon Balls wouldn't really restore his world anyway. We don't have any clue how far away New Namek is and Trunks probably didn't know about Dragon Balls until it was already a bit pointless anyway.˛˛* Why didn't they summon Shenron to wish Goku immune to the heart virus?˛** They simply didn't think of it, but it might not have been possible. First, a lot of fans believe that he contracted the virus on Yardrat not on Earth it just took forever to become fatal. Presumably in the OTL going Super Saiyan to fight Frieza sped things up considerably. Or "heart virus" is insufficiently specific. It might be like wishing immunity from the flu when the reality is that there are several viral diseases we lump together under the title 'flu' that are related sure but not the same precise disease.˛** In the Future Trunks timeline, they had no idea Goku would even ''get'' sick until it was too late. In our timeline, remember that these are the same guys who decided to reject Bulma's sensible plan to use the Dragonballs to locate Gero's lab and stop him before the androids could be built. It's quite possible they hadn't even considered it since they had the medicine on hand and were training for the Androids.˛˛* Why didn't Future Trunks immediately go and blow up the still-developing Cell after killing Future Android 17 and Future Android 18? Instead, he waits for the hatched Cell to come to him after months?/years? all the while sucking up people to make himself stronger. Trunks knew where Gero's lab was, having gone there twice in the past and knew about the bunker basement, instead he lets dozens or more people die just to terrorise Future Cell a bit? Seems a tad out of character (not the cocky part exactly, the letting people die part).˛** I think Future Cell was already on the prowl when Trunks killed the future Androids.˛** It's also possible that the underground lab is in a different place in his timeline, due to the butterfly effect.˛˛* Why didn't Cell ever use the Kaio-ken? There are multiple points when it would've been useful (against Ascended Saiyan Vegeta as Semi-Perfect Cell, for example), and since he has Frieza's durability and Piccolo's regenerative abilities, I doubt he has to worry much about the damage it can do to him.˛** The Kaioken is a technique from King Kai, a deity. Maybe Gero's science is unable to replicate a divine power.˛** Cell had access to the Super Saiyan transformation. Notice how his golden power aura and electrical discharges are identical to Goku's and Gohan's when they're Super. Super Saiyan trumps Kaio Ken.˛˛* When they wish back everyone killed by Cell, should Android 17 have qualified? Android 18 was alive and relatively unharmed when Cell spit her out, and that's after he's endured a chunk of his body being torn out by the Final Flash, and the top half of his body destroyed by Kamehameha. If that didn't kill the androids inside of him it suggests they're bonded on the cellular level. So shouldn't that mean Android 17 would be alive as long as Cell was, meaning he would've been killed by Gohan instead of Cell?˛** My guess best guess is, that when Cell self destructs, he killed Android 17 in the process. Remember, he was reduced to nothing but a lump and he was able to regenerate back to his Perfect form, even without Android 18, so it's possible 17 was gone too.˛˛* When the Z Fighters were getting beaten by the Cell Jrs, Gohan said that other than Trunks, none of them could be revived with the Dragon Balls. While this is true for Goku, Vegeta and Krillin who have been revived by Shenron once already, this is not the case for Piccolo, Tien and Yamcha as they were revived by Porunga. So , shouldn't Shenron be able to revive them as well? Or can Shenron cannot revive anyone who has died and be brought, even if they were not brought back him?˛** The restriction is that Shenron can't bring back someone who's already been wished back to life; it doesn't matter by whom.


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