Line #18 BrokenBase/PAYDAY2


1	''VideoGame/{{PAYDAY 2}}'''s base can get fired up very easily. With everything that Overkill does, the base is smashed into several more pieces.
2	----
3	* Crime.net, the system used to find heists in ''PAYDAY 2'' broke the community in half; people against the idea hate the fact that they can't simply choose what heist and difficulty they want to play on, others say the system helps cut down people farming the same levels over and over again, and those in between who like being encouraged to do heists variably, but are extremely dissatisfied with the atrociously long waits between finding a comfortable contract. Random drops at the end of a payday was also met with disdain from people that believe they should be able to earn/buy any mod they want without having to rely on luck, others say the system is fine and prevents min maxing, and still others who aren't too inconvenienced by the randomization, but are often given an abundance of prize types they wouldn't ever use. The latter was fixed [[BribingYourWayToVictory (somewhat)]] by the Gage Weapon Mod pack DLC, which outright tells you what weapon mods are included in every pack. ''Completing'' the packs, [[LastLousyPoint however...]]
4	* For a while, using in-game currency to learn new skills, buy guns, gun mods, masks, or mask mods split the community in half since no one could agree whether or not the concept was stupid and expensive or if the model was fair. With money becoming easier to get after a few patches were instated, the debate had kind of died off, and after the skill tree rework courtesy of Update 100, it no longer required cash to learn new skills.
5	* C4/Shaped Charges also divided people; no one can decide if the item makes heists too easy and fast (some doors and safes can be blown up, bypassing the need to lockpick or drill) or if the bombs are fine the way they are.
6	* Stealth play in general. It's surprising how ''mad'' stealth players make some other players, to the point of trolling public stealth games by throwing grenades and dropping. For those that like stealth, they believe stealth takes skill and that going loud is just mindless. Those who are against stealth hate how slow stealth can be, how limiting your options are, and how some people opt to just restart the heist every single time stealth fails.
7	* Revamped difficulty from patch 11 broke the remains of the fan base into even smaller fragments. People are either against the new changes, claiming that it makes the game artificially difficult, or they are for the changes and claim that anyone who complains sucks at the game. It then went farther with the Death Wish update, which included a HarderThanHard difficulty level that includes cameras that can't be destroyed, extra guards in certain heists that can spawn more guards if you kill them in stealth, capped body bags down to a count of 2, and guards can't be converted during stealth, which also means you can't dominate another guard (the stealth changes were also applied to all difficulty levels except for the cameras). Death Wish also introduced harder hitting and deadly accurate SWAT teams and a Bulldozer wielding a light machine gun, both groups capable of tearing players to shreds regardless of their armor. The fan base broke themselves between people who loathe the difficulty bump and those who like it.
8	* The Gage Weapon Pack #1 DLC caused a ''massive'' shitstorm among everyone. There were massive complaints over the fact that the DLC contained no new heists and how Overkill was robbing everyone by charging $5 for grenades (the DLC also includes more guns, masks, and mask materials). Others say the price is just right. This would repeat again and again for every single weapon pack DLC released since then.
9	* The removal of crosshairs also sparked division among the fan base where people either want it back (or have it as an option) or others saying the game is more realistic and people need to learn to use iron sight aiming more. Died down when laser sight gadgets came into play, substituting as crosshairs from the hip.
10	* The reveal of the Shadow Raid heist broke the fandom again once it was learned that the heist would be stealth only, meaning if you get caught, you only have one minute to get the loot and get the hell out or risk failing the heist. Many people hated the idea of heists instantly failing you if you get caught in stealth and also feel like anyone who didn't invest in the Ghost skill tree are being punished. The people in favor of the mechanics found the change to be a very welcoming challenge and feel anyone who really wants to stealth the heist should just redo their skill loadouts to be more stealth focused.
11	* [=HoxHUD=] is a GameMod that works as an anti-cheat system and gives the player more information on their HUD regarding number of cops dominated, how many drills are in use, etc., as well as the ability for hosts to restart games at will. While many people are in favor of anti-cheats and a HUD that can show more info than the vanilla HUD, just as many others oppose the mod and claim that using an enhanced HUD is akin to cheating. A lot of [=HoxHud=]'s features, like a rudimentary anti-cheat, restarting games, timers during assault waves and so on were later added to the vanilla game. The pro-[=HoxHud=] camp claims this vindicates their efforts, while the anti-[=HoxHud=] camp claims this removes any "legitimate" need for the mod. To throw more gas on the fire, there's also debate over whether or not Pocohud is better. Some TakeAThirdOption and combine the two.
12	* Overkill promoting player formed clans is another hot button issue that no one can seem to reach a conclusion for. Some people feel that Overkill only promotes "bad" clans/groups or gives some groups too much attention while others feel that Overkill is free to choose who they want to give shout outs to and that the complainers should put effort in wanting to be exposed.
13	* The 2014 Crimefest event Overkill planned to celebrate the franchise's 3rd birthday was met with scorn. Overkill listed several pieces of content they had planned for the future of the game if the Steam community group hits a certain amount of members per milestone (DLC being free for community members, new masks, etc). Many people were excited by the event, but just as many others felt Overkill were holding content "hostage" by forcing people to get others to join a group to boost numbers. What also didn't help was Overkill releasing another weapons pack DLC during the countdown to the Crimefest event, causing everyone to believe that Overkill hadn't begun work on the new Hoxton breakout heist (or any heist for that matter). During the event, Overkill also put up a teaser countdown on their site which coincided with the anniversary of Payday 2's release, and gradually released hints and audio files that suggested that they would be adding some sort of zombie-themed heist. However, after 35 days of waiting, Overkill revealed that they were developing a new game based on ''ComicBook/TheWalkingDead'' comic, with Payday 2 players only getting a new melee weapon as a reward. Naturally, many fans got angry at the perceived bait and switch, while others were happy that Overkill was working on a new game for a popular franchise. During the event, some player groups created bots that would register accounts on Steam and then join the Payday group in order to inflate the numbers. This also caused great controversy, with some people feeling it was dishonest, others making the "holding content hostage" argument, and some people just assuming it didn't matter, under the assumption that Overkill wouldn't promise great content and then refuse to deliver it because their Steam group was slightly shy of an arbitrary target. The 1.5 million followers reward in particular, a character crossover DLC with the movie John Wick, is a licensing and marketing deal that likely took months of business negotiations and thus is probably not actually beholden to a publicity gimmick. The reveal of the character crossover was met with massive negative press from fans who felt Overkill sold themselves out to get money out of the deal and gave the fans a lousy reward.
14	* The announcement of Overkill collaborating with Alienware for the release of Alienware's gaming console/Steambox. The promotion had given out 2 exclusive Alienware masks for people who bought the console and an Alienware styled hammer weapon for everyone who signed up for an Alienware account. The promotional deal didn't sit well with the fan base and they declared Overkill being total sell outs while other parts of the fan base don't think the promotion is a big deal.
15	* Bots. Are they overpowered, or beyond pathetic? Is Overkill justified in only providing two of them at a time, or should they have three akin to the previous game? The new turret enemy really renders Bots helpless now. Since the crew management menu was released during the Hoxton's Housewarming Party event, which let players choose what guns bots can use, and providing a number of buffs to the player depending on how many bots are being used, this issue appears to have died down.
16	* The reveal of The Diamond Heist and new character Clover being paid DLC had, once again, stirred the hornet's nest. While people complained about the heist being paid DLC as usual, the reveal of a new character also being separate paid DLC caused many fans to angrily trash Overkill for charging people. People on the other side of the fence either don't care about the issue or understand that not everything can be free. Dragan and The Bomb heist DLC packs were released in a similar manner and were met with similar complaints.
17	* Shortly after THE Diamond heist was released there was a GameBreakingBug involving Hoxhud's anti-cheat mechanics and grenades. Overkill responded by releasing a patch a day later that disabled Hoxhud outright until the makers of the mod could get their mod fixed. Much of the fanbase exploded in a nuclear fashion for having their mods being brute forced to turn off. There are debates about the heist itself, with players who were expecting something big like robbing National Gallery complaining that the actual heist is a step down from the other Dentist heists like Big Bank, Hotline Miami, and Hoxton Breakout. Meanwhile, other players don't really see any problem with the heist.
18	* The 2015 Hype Train event. Remember how bad Crimefest got? Now add having to pay actual money to the mix by buying copies of the game and the DLC packs! Many fans weren't pleased that Overkill was basically locking new content like the sequel heist to Hoxton Breakout (Hoxton's Revenge) behind DLC preorder sales. Other fans defend the move by pointing out it's not unlike most crowdfunding strategies. Yet other fans have pointed out that the release schedule suggests most of the content is already done and will, if goals aren't met, simply be released as paid DLC later. On top of this, two of the unlocked prizes involve 10 randomly chosen people being invited to an event held by Overkill within Los Angeles, which means anyone living outside of the United States is out of luck unless they want to spend a ton of money in airline and hotel fees just to attend an event. Naturally, non U.S. players aren't happy about this. Within the event itself, Overkill released two DLC packs, dubbed the OVERKILL Pack and Completely OVERKILL Pack. The first pack contains a reskinned escape van, a new mask, a rocket launcher, and a mini-gun for $5 while the second pack for $20 contains 4 unique masks and bonus content that would not be revealed until later and said pack is for people who want to show Overkill their support. The two DLC packs being separate caused a firestorm in the community due to over the top weapons being introduced into the game and the fact that all the content in the DLC packs have to be bought together if someone wants to get everything. Overkill later came out to explain that the secret content in the $20 DLC pack would be completely cosmetic, though it did little to quell the anger that was already set in stone.
19	* Occurred again with the Butcher CAR & AK Pack, paid DLC. Overkill claimed this isn't the same pack as the one unlocked in the Hype Train Event, but people say otherwise, since the items in the Hype Train pack preview look ''exactly'' like the ones in the CAR & AK Pack. Others are lamenting yet ''another'' CAR & AK Pack, wishing Overkill would add parts for other, more neglected weapons, and/or the fact that the achievements to get those attachments are for the most part just plain ridiculous.
20	** After progress on the Hype Train fell to a crawl for over two weeks, it was announced that Hotline Miami 2 preorders would provide a fairly healthy amount of Hype Fuel each, regardless of whether the buyer owned Payday 2 or not (or if they did, and simply didn't want to contribute to what they saw as unhealthy business practices). Progress ''ballooned'' immediately after, doubling nearly four weeks worth of fuel in only two days and blowing past several Hype Train "stops" in only a few hours. This has led some people to believe that the entire "crowdsourced" idea behind the Hype Train was completely pointless. The fact that this crossover was surely in the works for at least the duration of the Hype Train event (and probably longer) has drawn accusations that the entire event was rigged since Hotline Miami 2 was all but ensured to sell like hotcakes.
21	* The Jacket character pack, which can only be obtained if you buy the deluxe edition of the sequel to ''VideoGame/HotlineMiami''. Said pack includes a bunch of masks, but if you decide to pre-order the upgraded version, you'll also get new weapons, a new perk deck, and Jacket himself as a playable character. The announcement came during the Train Hype event, which was already notorious for its questionable DLC practices and it also came right after the reveal of the Butcher mod pack DLC. Needless to say, the community is not too happy with the back to back reveals of paid DLC nor were they happy that yet ''another'' character was being added to the game.
22	* The reveal of all content made for ''PAYDAY 2'' finally getting to the consoles, namely the Xbox One and Playstation 4 and not the Playstation 3 or Xbox 360. For years, console fans were promised that updates would come, followed by [[ShrugOfGod "It'll come whenever it's ready"]], and then [[ExecutiveMeddling "The higher ups are preventing us from sending out patches to update the game"]]. Overkill knew people would ask why next gen consoles got a game with content that last gen consoles were promised and they simple answered "We just couldn't do it and we're pissed about it as much as you are." Console fans were extremely upset over the fact that Overkill not only broke their promise, but now they'd have to shell out money to buy the game again (or even fork over hundreds of dollars for a new console if they don't have it) and start over from scratch since save data won't be transferable. Other people believe that the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 were simply too outdated to make the game salvageable and was better off on more powerful consoles that make patches less painful to do.
23	* Infamy 2.0. For over a year, fans begged Overkill to add more levels of infamy and Overkill said it would come in due time while also saying that they couldn't make the new infamy levels give players any sort of advantage over others. During the Train Hype event, ''twenty'' levels of infamy were added, along with new masks and materials. To sweeten the deal, going beyond infamy 5 would no longer drain your money. The fan base blew up when they saw that the new infamy levels didn't give any bonuses beyond more EXP, making it pointless to grind, while other parts of the fan base felt the infamy system is fine as is and doesn't need extra perks. It didn't help that Infamy 2.0 came out a ''year'' after the original Infamy update, and that "What would you like to see in Infamy 2?" was a common dev-made forum topic and a lot of exciting ideas were tossed out. For many fans, increased XP gains and a handful of masks and colors was a ''major'' letdown amidst discussions of major balance-changing revisions to the game or major new features. The fans were also, likewise, rather let down by the change in the numbering system, going from Roman Numerals to standard numbers and completely eliminating the Playing Card theme in favor of (ironically) cards with Roman Numerals on them (this is because a single suit of cards went up to 14 at best, using the Joker which isn't normally considered to be part of a suit). A patch several months later reverted the numbers back to the original format, but the suits on the cards never came back.
24	* The SWAT turret. No one can decide whether or not the turret enemy is fair and challenging. Complaints range from the turret having too much health, making the Tabula Rasa achievement impossible to do, making moving bags an even bigger chore to do, and making certain DLC guns almost required to take down the turrets without spending a ton of bullets. Supporters of the turret say one can simply rely on a dodge based build to avoid being shot to death and an ECM can buy the team time to shred the turret to bits or to get away. It also didn't help that using trip mines or the HE rounds on the turret would also cause the game to crash for some players.
25	* The Car Shop Heist. You have one half of the community that love the idea of driving cars and the heist being stealth only while the other half hate the UnexpectedGameplayChange and also hate that the heist is only winnable mostly in stealth.
26	* Hoxton's Revenge. On one side, you have people who liked how simple the heist was and being actually shocked over the reveal on who the rat is. On the other side, there's people who feel the design of the heist when going loud is boring and killing [[spoiler: Hector]] either made no sense and preferred that the rat should have been the Dentist (which was a big popular theory that the fans came up with) or Gage (another big theory based on ARG clues and The Butcher's weapon DLC takeover) or was an ass pull to cover the fact that Overkill couldn't get the voice actor to return.
27	* Cross promotions are another hot button issue within the community. On one side, you have people who absolutely loathe at the idea of having real life brands/people being used and feel the game is being used as one giant advertisement board. On the other side, you have people who don't mind the promotions at all and understand that Overkill wants to promote things they like while making money from it.
28	* The community itself. With the Payday 2 player base split between so many views, and the devs themselves, often you'll find a situation escalate quickly into spite and unkind language. The problem is further compounded with Overkill's track record of sly shots at the angrier factions, which only serves to escalate the problem further, especially when said complaints are about viable problems within the game. If you visit the Steam HUB forums, tread ''lightly''.
29	* Crimefest 2015's first day introduced weapon skins to the game. The fact that these skins are unlocked via microtransactions, in the same manner as keys for crates in ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' and ''VideoGame/CounterStrike: Global Offensive'' (just change "crate" to "safe" and "key" to "drill"), has not sat well with a large portion of the community, leading to some even publicly announcing their intention to uninstall the game. Others are not bothered by it. The fact that most of the skins have stat boosts or even a ton of extra attachments did nothing to help matters. Even worse, Overkill [[http://www.gamespot.com/articles/payday-2-wont-have-microtransactions/1100-6410303 repeatedly]] [[http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3127521 denied that]] [[http://steamcommunity.com/app/24240/discussions/0/810924774517838925/#c810925398555174856 the game would have microtransactions]] This was greatly lessened by the sixth day, which revealed that drills could now drop from cards alongside safes, ''and'' released [[NostalgiaLevel one of the better received heists from the first game]] for free, with an achievement in it to unlock a free drill for a special safe. Most of the community felt it was a step in the right direction overall, even if it didn't make up for it entirely. However, the fandom is now divided on whether or not Overkill did the right thing or the company still can't be trusted.
30	* The weapon skins themselves divided the player base into even smaller fragments. You have those who think the skins are fine and that the stat boosts don't really change up the game while the opposing side feels like skins are pay to win and anyone who uses them are encouraging Overkill to milk the player base even more with microtransactions. Those who oppose the skins have either kicked skin users out of their games or use mods that auto kicks anyone that has a skin.
31	* Remember the Completely Overkill pack mentioned above? It was revealed not long after Crimefest 2015 that the contents of the pack would be...Unique weapon skins and some old [=DLCs=]. The problem though was that the old [=DLCs=] were ones that those who had the Completely Overkill Pack (also known as the COP) already had, with very few who redeemed them actually getting anything they didn't own. These were also not valid as the giftable steam versions, so if you already had them, too bad you get nothing. Turns out the actual reason for the [=DLCs=] was to make sure that the weapon skins in the safes were usable, as otherwise Overkill could be legitimately in trouble by "selling" something that was effectively useless (and be liable for a refund on the entire game of a COP owner). As for the skins, they were essentially given a unique drill and safe each, and told good luck. The fanbase imploded at this, since they effectively unknowingly paid 8 times the cost of a normal key. It got so bad that the Moderators on the Steam Forums went on strike and did not moderate their Steam Forums anymore, which devolved into catastrophic levels of bile and hatred. Overkill has since apologized for the crappy reward and are currently asking what everyone would like to see in their "redo" of the COP, but that just opened up it's own problems and divided the fanbase further: Is Overkill actually going to hold itself to it's promise despite literally just breaking two of them in a row? Is it fair to let non-COP owners decide what COP owners get? Is it fair to instead say that only COP owners can decide on a potentially game-changing item? The debate rages.
32	* The Goat Simulator heist, a crossover with the game of [[VideoGame/GoatSimulator the same name]], split the community into different camps. You have one side that believes Overkill is once again being greedy by charging people for the DLC while also running out of ideas. You have another side that believe the heist is fine and is funny to have goats being in random places with bags of coke shoved up their bums. You also have a third side that believe the heist itself isn't bad, but the timing of its release was bad itself due to the community still feeling bitter over Overkill's actions and inactions in the past several months prior to the release.
33	* The overall direction of the game has the community divided up over where it should be going. On one side, you have those dislike adding silly weapons for the sake of being silly, adding a bunch of characters for no reason other than to have them, and having lots of crossover material just to pimp out the people they're collaborating with. On the other side, you have those who believe that the game is fine as is and that adding silly things to the game doesn't harm its image in any way.
34	* At this point, pretty much any DLC that comes out gets some members of the community up in arms over the concept of paying for additional content added to the game, the heists of which they can play even without purchasing the DLC so long as the host has it.
35	* Overkill's apology over their handling of microtransactions and alienating the community, which came after the 100th update as a way to give the community some nifty items and features and as good timing to explain why they did what they did with the black market. People either think the apology came far too late to undo any damage and is nothing but a PR stunt or that it's a first step for Overkill to fix their mistakes and press forward.
36	* The major rework of the Skill Tree system (which also brought changes to the perk deck system along the way) has been welcomed for the most part, but still has caused some major points of contention among the fanbase. For example, before the update dodge-oriented builds were seen as too overpowered and encouraging lone-wolf playstyles (which certainly is problematic for a co-op game), but now many feel that the nerfing went too far and that their old dodge builds are essentially crippled and useless in the Death Wish difficulty. Another example would be the sentry turrets in the Technician skill tree. Before, experienced players would avoid using them, being seen as a wasteful sink of skill points with little return. Nowadays... ironically many experienced players STILL avoid using the sentries, but for the opposite reason, feeling that the update made them way too overpowered and end up sapping the challenge of many loud heists.
37	* The new voice actor for Houston (who was originally the team's Hoxton until the old British Hoxton came back) was either met with disdain since fans preferred the old voices or was seen as a refreshing change in the dynamic. With the original Hoxton freed and back in the crew now, both camps seem to be happy at least.
38	* Is the return of Old Hoxton the greatest moment in Payday, or did his dialogue turn him into a rather annoying, foul-mouthed character who can't utter a single line of dialogue without the words "wanker" and "cunt"? Everyone has an opinion about Hoxton, and it's always a strong one.
39	* The Thanatos Sniper Rifle. The best weapon in the game paired up with a submachine gun? Or is it only good for killing Bulldozers and little else?
40	* Reloading automatically when you're tased. AntiFrustrationFeature, or watering the game down? The Hoxton's Housewarming Party event removed the feature for one day's update, and it was immediately put back in the next day after people complained. You have those who want the feature gone for the sake of forcing people to be more self aware, while others want the feature to stay because it gives you an easier chance to fight back against a rather dangerous enemy.
41	* Fans were heavily divided over the announcement of the game being ported to the Platform/NintendoSwitch. Some feel that it's already a lost cause due to how slow the developers were in updating the Platform/XboxOne and Platform/Playstation4 versions and also fear that the Switch version will not sell simply because many believe that adult/mature gamers don't play on Nintendo consoles. Others think that having a Switch version will help Nintendo attract more 3rd parties to them and the idea of playing ''PAYDAY 2'' on the go is good.
42	* The release of the Ultimate Edition on PC. In June 2017, Overkill decided to stop selling the DLC packs separately, and put them into an all-inclusive bundle. Some fans believe that this is a good move, with the base price of $45 for all [=DLCs=] to be an excellent bargain over the original cost of $100+, while others believe the bundle is unnecessary, and that Overkill is just trying to take more money from players by making them pay for DLC packs in the Ultimate Edition that they wouldn't have purchased otherwise.
43	* [[TheOtherDarrin The new voice lines]] for enemies including [[EliteMook special units]]. While most of the playerbase find them acceptable much as in the [[VideoGame/PaydayTheHeist prequel]], but a certain part of the community are unhappy with the changes. For example: Some said that the Bulldozer is supposed to be a hulking tank that [[TheDreaded spreads terror among heisters]] rather than being an [[PsychopathicManchild overgrown manchild]] in a bomb suit that [[LargeHam spews cheesy lines towards them]]. While others accuse Overkill for demonizing both the Cloaker, the Taser and the Bulldozer as [[AxCrazy sick, sadistic lunatics]] in which they're just bloodthirsty as the Payday Gang.
44	* The sheer amount of playable characters in the game divided fans over whether or not it's a good thing. Either people love having more flavor and different choices to pick from that gives the gang more of a dynamic or they hate the dynamic becoming too diverse and destroys the original idea of having a small gang doing the heists.
45	* Update 237 brought crossplay to the game with the Epic Game store, and that lead to more base breakage:
46	** The game was given away for free in the Epic Game Store for a week. Like on Steam when the game went free there, One side argued it leads to a large influx of newbies ruining heists, and another side points out that, as a PVE game, this can't really be helped.

Context BrokenBase / PAYDAY2