Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
1.) The people she dropped the tracker jacker nest on were not actively trying to kill her. Nor was the guy who killed Rue, or the last guy who died at the Cornucopia. 2.) What is this suggesting Katniss should’ve done instead, actively seek the other tributes out and kill them? The book establishes that she’s willing to kill when in dire circumstances even when there may be alternatives. What’s she supposed to do that would better demonstrate the moral quandary?
Deleted line(s) 153 (click to see context) :
** The first book puts Katniss in a battle to the death with 23 other randomly-chosen people, painting the decision to kill or be killed as an enormous moral quandary, but [[spoiler:coincidences and LaserGuidedKarma ensure that she can win the whole thing without hurting anyone who isn't actively trying to kill her at that exact moment.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
1.) Not giving them the option to surrender is what makes the plan seem “evil”, and also differentiates it from casualties during mutual combat, because the avalanche isn’t something the other side will see coming. 2.) I don’t think there’s a common consensus that killing the Capitol’s children is a worthy compromise to satiate the discontent of the districts. A major part of the story is that most of the Capitol citizens are just clueless and misinformed rather than outright evil; how is it fair to force their children to bear the cost of what they did?
Deleted line(s) 149,151 (click to see context) :
* StrawmanHasAPoint:
** Gale's plan for utilizing avalanches to kill the soldiers in the Nut is labeled [[DesignatedEvil "evil"]] by the other characters, but given that District 2 is in a war against the Capitol, killing enemy soldiers with avalanches is not any less ethical than killing them with bullets and explosives. The only part of Gale's plan that was morally ambiguous was his denial of giving the Capitol soldiers and loyalists an option to surrender.
** [[spoiler:Coin's plan for a final Hunger Games with the Capitol's children was a compromise that would satisfy the Districts' hunger for revenge while killing off the least number of lives possible. Nevertheless, this is regarded by the narrative as Coin crossing the MoralEventHorizon.]]
** Gale's plan for utilizing avalanches to kill the soldiers in the Nut is labeled [[DesignatedEvil "evil"]] by the other characters, but given that District 2 is in a war against the Capitol, killing enemy soldiers with avalanches is not any less ethical than killing them with bullets and explosives. The only part of Gale's plan that was morally ambiguous was his denial of giving the Capitol soldiers and loyalists an option to surrender.
** [[spoiler:Coin's plan for a final Hunger Games with the Capitol's children was a compromise that would satisfy the Districts' hunger for revenge while killing off the least number of lives possible. Nevertheless, this is regarded by the narrative as Coin crossing the MoralEventHorizon.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 52,60 (click to see context) from:
* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Cinna, the only Capitol citizen who is undeniably on Katniss' side the entire time. [[spoiler:This ends up costing him his life, with him being eventually KilledOffscreen]].
** Finnick Odair, victor of District 4, [[ProngsOfPoseidon the fishing district, with a trident]], introduced as a MrFanservice, with Katniss noting that he used to get gifts from Capitol citizens he has slept with. [[spoiler:He later revealed that he was a child prostitute and didn't actually want to sleep with any of those people, and [[LadykillerInLove was actually in love with Annie]], another victor who was traumatized by her experiences in the games]]. This, combined with his verbal takedown of [[spoiler:President Snow]] made many people prefer him over Gale or Peeta, both as a character and as a potential LoveInterest.
** [[PluckyGirl Rue]]. She [[spoiler: only appears in one book]], but she's impossibly beloved by fans. Some fan-circles seem to adore her more than they do [[MoralityPet Primrose Everdeen]].
** Foxface is a notable example; she only appears for a few scenes in the first book, doesn't get any lines and doesn't even get her real name revealed, yet fans love her for how cunning she is and because she's more identifiable than a sword badass/archery badass/knife badass/rock badass etc.
** [[ScaryBlackMan Thresh]] is pretty popular as well. [[spoiler:Him killing Clove with LaserGuidedKarma helps]].
** The Careers - [[PsychoKnifeNut Clove]], Cato, and Glimmer (and sometimes Marvel). The ships of Cato[=/=]Clove, Clove[=/=]Katniss, Clove[=/=]Glimmer, Cato[=/=]Glimmer and Glimmer[=/=]Seneca Crane further prove this - in some places, they're more popular than the Katniss[=/=]Peeta[=/=]Gale OT3!
** Seneca Crane, [[spoiler:the Gamemaker who allowed Katniss and Peeta to win the games together, was also KilledOffscreen for doing so]], helped along by his beard in the movie.
** Madge Undersee, the nice daughter of the mayor of District 12 with whom Katniss has an InterclassFriendship. Also the one who gives her the Mockingjay pin, which ends up giving Katniss her nickname in the revolution. Many were disappointed that she was AdaptedOut in the movies.
** Cinna, the only Capitol citizen who is undeniably on Katniss' side the entire time. [[spoiler:This ends up costing him his life, with him being eventually KilledOffscreen]].
** Finnick Odair, victor of District 4, [[ProngsOfPoseidon the fishing district, with a trident]], introduced as a MrFanservice, with Katniss noting that he used to get gifts from Capitol citizens he has slept with. [[spoiler:He later revealed that he was a child prostitute and didn't actually want to sleep with any of those people, and [[LadykillerInLove was actually in love with Annie]], another victor who was traumatized by her experiences in the games]]. This, combined with his verbal takedown of [[spoiler:President Snow]] made many people prefer him over Gale or Peeta, both as a character and as a potential LoveInterest.
** [[PluckyGirl Rue]]. She [[spoiler: only appears in one book]], but she's impossibly beloved by fans. Some fan-circles seem to adore her more than they do [[MoralityPet Primrose Everdeen]].
** Foxface is a notable example; she only appears for a few scenes in the first book, doesn't get any lines and doesn't even get her real name revealed, yet fans love her for how cunning she is and because she's more identifiable than a sword badass/archery badass/knife badass/rock badass etc.
** [[ScaryBlackMan Thresh]] is pretty popular as well. [[spoiler:Him killing Clove with LaserGuidedKarma helps]].
** The Careers - [[PsychoKnifeNut Clove]], Cato, and Glimmer (and sometimes Marvel). The ships of Cato[=/=]Clove, Clove[=/=]Katniss, Clove[=/=]Glimmer, Cato[=/=]Glimmer and Glimmer[=/=]Seneca Crane further prove this - in some places, they're more popular than the Katniss[=/=]Peeta[=/=]Gale OT3!
** Seneca Crane, [[spoiler:the Gamemaker who allowed Katniss and Peeta to win the games together, was also KilledOffscreen for doing so]], helped along by his beard in the movie.
** Madge Undersee, the nice daughter of the mayor of District 12 with whom Katniss has an InterclassFriendship. Also the one who gives her the Mockingjay pin, which ends up giving Katniss her nickname in the revolution. Many were disappointed that she was AdaptedOut in the movies.
to:
* EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Cinna, the only Capitol citizen who is undeniably on Katniss' side the entire time. [[spoiler:This ends up costing him his life, with him being eventually KilledOffscreen]].
** Finnick Odair, victor of District 4, [[ProngsOfPoseidon the fishing district, with a trident]], introduced as a MrFanservice, with Katniss noting that he used to get gifts from Capitol citizens he has slept with. [[spoiler:He later revealed that he was a child prostitute and didn't actually want to sleep with any of those people, and [[LadykillerInLove was actually in love with Annie]], another victor who was traumatized by her experiences in the games]]. This, combined with his verbal takedown of [[spoiler:President Snow]] made many people prefer him over Gale or Peeta, both as a character and as a potential LoveInterest.
** [[PluckyGirl Rue]]. She [[spoiler: only appears in one book]], but she's impossibly beloved by fans. Some fan-circles seem to adore her more than they do [[MoralityPet Primrose Everdeen]].
** Foxface is a notable example; she only appears for a few scenes in the first book, doesn't get any lines and doesn't even get her real name revealed, yet fans love her for how cunning she is and because she's more identifiable than a sword badass/archery badass/knife badass/rock badass etc.
** [[ScaryBlackMan Thresh]] is pretty popular as well. [[spoiler:Him killing Clove with LaserGuidedKarma helps]].
** The Careers - [[PsychoKnifeNut Clove]], Cato, and Glimmer (and sometimes Marvel). The ships of Cato[=/=]Clove, Clove[=/=]Katniss, Clove[=/=]Glimmer, Cato[=/=]Glimmer and Glimmer[=/=]Seneca Crane further prove this - in some places, they're more popular than the Katniss[=/=]Peeta[=/=]Gale OT3!
** Seneca Crane, [[spoiler:the Gamemaker who allowed Katniss and Peeta to win the games together, was also KilledOffscreen for doing so]], helped along by his beard in the movie.
** Madge Undersee, the nice daughter of the mayor of District 12 with whom Katniss has an InterclassFriendship. Also the one who gives her the Mockingjay pin, which ends up giving Katniss her nickname in the revolution. Many were disappointed that she was AdaptedOut in the movies.EnsembleDarkhorse: [[EnsembleDarkHorse/TheHungerGames Has its own page.]]
** Cinna, the only Capitol citizen who is undeniably on Katniss' side the entire time. [[spoiler:This ends up costing him his life, with him being eventually KilledOffscreen]].
** Finnick Odair, victor of District 4, [[ProngsOfPoseidon the fishing district, with a trident]], introduced as a MrFanservice, with Katniss noting that he used to get gifts from Capitol citizens he has slept with. [[spoiler:He later revealed that he was a child prostitute and didn't actually want to sleep with any of those people, and [[LadykillerInLove was actually in love with Annie]], another victor who was traumatized by her experiences in the games]]. This, combined with his verbal takedown of [[spoiler:President Snow]] made many people prefer him over Gale or Peeta, both as a character and as a potential LoveInterest.
** [[PluckyGirl Rue]]. She [[spoiler: only appears in one book]], but she's impossibly beloved by fans. Some fan-circles seem to adore her more than they do [[MoralityPet Primrose Everdeen]].
** Foxface is a notable example; she only appears for a few scenes in the first book, doesn't get any lines and doesn't even get her real name revealed, yet fans love her for how cunning she is and because she's more identifiable than a sword badass/archery badass/knife badass/rock badass etc.
** [[ScaryBlackMan Thresh]] is pretty popular as well. [[spoiler:Him killing Clove with LaserGuidedKarma helps]].
** The Careers - [[PsychoKnifeNut Clove]], Cato, and Glimmer (and sometimes Marvel). The ships of Cato[=/=]Clove, Clove[=/=]Katniss, Clove[=/=]Glimmer, Cato[=/=]Glimmer and Glimmer[=/=]Seneca Crane further prove this - in some places, they're more popular than the Katniss[=/=]Peeta[=/=]Gale OT3!
** Seneca Crane, [[spoiler:the Gamemaker who allowed Katniss and Peeta to win the games together, was also KilledOffscreen for doing so]], helped along by his beard in the movie.
** Madge Undersee, the nice daughter of the mayor of District 12 with whom Katniss has an InterclassFriendship. Also the one who gives her the Mockingjay pin, which ends up giving Katniss her nickname in the revolution. Many were disappointed that she was AdaptedOut in the movies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* CaptainObviousReveal: Peeta [[spoiler: throwing away his knife and shortly afterwards unbandaging his bleeding leg to accept his death and allow Katniss to win]] is the moment Katniss realizes he's a good person that was 100% telling the truth about loving her and that their FakeRelationship was more than just a survival tactic to him. Given that just about [[EveryoneCanSeeIt every heroic character, even little Rue, figured this out already and tells Katniss as much]], his repeated self sacrificial actions, and that Katniss is fairly clearly in denial about it, it borders on InternalReveal but the [[UnreliableNarrator narration treats him as a liar and a potential threat up until the last moment.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Invoked InUniverse on a few occassions with regards to the berries. While everyone in universe and out of it can recognize the significance of the event, there is little agreement about why Katniss did it or what it symbolizes. Even Katniss has to weigh her exact motivations for her decision to save Peeta, noting that she had selfish ones like [[NeverAcceptedinHisHometown not wanting to be a pariah]] and [[BecomingTheMask wanting to save a boy she cares deeply about]] as well as more high-minded ones like [[EveryoneHasStandards basic human decency]] and [[ArcWords wanting to prove she is more than a piece in the Capitol's game]].
---> ''And again and again when I held out those berries that mean different things to different people. Love for Peeta. Refusal to give in under impossible odds. Defiance of the Capitol's inhumanity.''
---> ''And again and again when I held out those berries that mean different things to different people. Love for Peeta. Refusal to give in under impossible odds. Defiance of the Capitol's inhumanity.''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 182 (click to see context) from:
** The MTV Movie Awards came under fire for excluding Katniss from their Best Hero nominations, which happened to be entirely made up of male characters. This was especially bad due to the inclusion of John Cale, Channing Tatum's character from "White House Down", as the character wasn't very recognizable as opposed to the actor himself.
to:
** The MTV Movie Awards came under fire for excluding Katniss from their Best Hero nominations, which happened to be entirely made up of male characters. This was especially bad due to the inclusion of John Cale, Channing Tatum's Creator/ChanningTatum's character from "White House Down", "Film/WhiteHouseDown", as the character wasn't very recognizable as opposed to the actor himself.himself. That it didn't win Best Movie and Best Kiss either--both the only noms ''Breaking Dawn Part 1'' got and also won instead too--didn't go without outcry either.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Early in the first book, Gale quips bitterly to Madge that she won’t be going to the games (thanks to her parents wealth and connections, she only has 5 entries). [[spoiler: We learn in Catching Fire that her aunt was a victim of the Quarter Quell despite also coming from an affluent family.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 109 (click to see context) from:
** Admittedly inevitable given that, once you strip away the CrapsackWorld and the horrible consequences and societal ramifications surrounding the titular Hunger Games, what you're left with is essentially a thrilling BattleRoyaleGame - a genre that, as proven by later video games like ''VideoGame/ApexLegends'', most definitely has a following. It's not very often that you get a literary equivalent of PlayTheGameSkipTheStory, but there you go.
to:
** Admittedly inevitable given that, once you strip away the CrapsackWorld and the horrible consequences and societal ramifications surrounding the titular Hunger Games, what you're left with is essentially a thrilling BattleRoyaleGame - a genre that, as proven by later video games like ''VideoGame/ApexLegends'', most definitely has a following. It's not very often that you get a literary equivalent of PlayTheGameSkipTheStory, but there you go. Several fans expressed interest in seeing the proposed 76th Hunger Games, [[spoiler:consisting entirely of Capitol children,]] actually play out and were disappointed that they never eventuated due to [[spoiler:Coin's death,]] missing the point that the Games are a horrible thing needing dismantling.
Deleted line(s) 161,162 (click to see context) :
** Some fans feel Katniss volunteering as tribute did this, and that Peeta protecting Prim in order to re-unite the sisters would have made for a much better story.
** Several fans expressed interest in seeing the proposed 76th Hunger Games, consisting entirely of Capitol children, actually play out and were disappointed that they never eventuated due to [[spoiler:Coin's death.]]
** Several fans expressed interest in seeing the proposed 76th Hunger Games, consisting entirely of Capitol children, actually play out and were disappointed that they never eventuated due to [[spoiler:Coin's death.]]
