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* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than claiming that the non-Christians (except for Mabel) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

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* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than claiming that the non-Christians (except for Mabel) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.counterparts.



* ValuesResonance: On the other hand, many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."

to:

* ValuesResonance: On the other hand, many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine [[{{Irony}} is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, tolerance]], and more. Pope Francis in particular praised routinely recommends the novel as book and praises it for depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."
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* ValuesDissonance: Before Felsenburgh takes over, how do we know the Marxists are evil? Because they [[FelonyMisdemeanor exiled the royal houses of Europe to Rome]]. The Marxists don’t actually oppress anyone until Felsenburgh comes along, but the narrative treats this as beyond the pale because of the divine right of kings.

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* ValuesDissonance: Before Felsenburgh takes over, how do we know the Marxists are evil? Because they [[FelonyMisdemeanor exiled the royal houses of Europe to Rome]].Rome. The Marxists don’t actually oppress anyone until Felsenburgh comes along, but the narrative treats this as beyond the pale because of the divine right of kings.
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** More relevantly, the book calls out Marx and Hervé for leading the world down the path of socialism. While Hervé was indeed a Marxist at the time of publication, he would later join the far-right ''[[ANaziByAnyOtherName Action Française]]'', which was staunchly ultramontanist Catholic.

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** More relevantly, the book calls out Marx and Hervé for leading the world down the path of socialism. While Hervé was indeed a Marxist at the time of publication, he would later join the far-right ''[[ANaziByAnyOtherName Action Française]]'', which was staunchly ultramontanist Catholic.monarchist movement ''Action Française''.



* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that the non-Christians (except for Mabel) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than claiming that the non-Christians (except for Mabel) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

Changed: 250

Removed: 1779

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* MisaimedFandom: Apparently, when the book came out, some socialists [[RootingForTheEmpire rooted for Felsenburgh]] and thought he won at the end. Presumably they didn’t know that Benson was a Catholic priest and would never write something like that, and also that the final sentence is a reference to a Latin saying about the end of the world.
* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that the non-Christians (except for [[EnsembleDarkHorse Mabel]]) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

to:

* MisaimedFandom: Apparently, when When the book came out, some socialists [[RootingForTheEmpire rooted for Felsenburgh]] and thought he won at the end. Presumably they didn’t know that Benson was a Catholic priest and would never write something like that, and also One non-Catholic reader wrote that the final sentence is a reference novel "struck heaven out of my sky, and I don't know how to a Latin saying about the end of the world.
get it back again."
* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that the non-Christians (except for [[EnsembleDarkHorse Mabel]]) Mabel) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.



** Mabel [[spoiler:commits suicide after witnessing Humanists murdering Catholic children and defiling their corpses]], because this proves Felsenburgh is a liar and his cult a ReligionOfEvil, so her whole identity is destroyed. The reader is meant to think that she should have converted to Catholicism after this to prevent [[spoiler:her suicide]], but unfortunately Humanists being evil doesn’t magically make Catholic apologetic arguments valid. As far as Mabel knew, the only two options were [[MortonsFork commit wanton crimes against humanity in the name of Felsenburgh and Humanism, or commit wanton crimes against humanity in the name of the Catholic Church]]. This ''is'' the organization that gave us the Inquisition and massacred heretics, after all. The narrative completely fails to argue against this, or that Christianity is true, because [[BeggingTheQuestion it’s assumed from the start]]. (And it doesn’t help that liberal theology is seen as practically heretical and not a valid option.) Thus, Mabel’s fate is a horrible example of what would happen to somebody who ''actually believed'' in the validity of a FalseDichotomy. She should have been able to TakeAThirdOption, but [[WriterOnBoard the author didn’t let her]].



* ValuesResonance: Many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative and Traditionalist Catholics (even Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis) say this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. While some of the things in the book (such as weapons of mass destruction and the advent of euthanasia) ring true in the 21st century, others do not (the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]]), and either way Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction.

to:

* ValuesResonance: Many On the other hand, many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative and Traditionalist Catholics (even Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis) say this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. While some of the things in the book (such as weapons of mass destruction and the advent of euthanasia) ring true in the 21st century, others do not (the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]]), and either way Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction.
"
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* ValuesRessonance: Many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."

to:

* ValuesRessonance: ValuesResonance: Many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."

Added: 539

Changed: 881

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None


* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative Catholics (not those who don’t like Pope Francis or Vatican II, but those who think ''democracy'' and ''the Enlightenment itself'' are affronts to God) insist this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. While some of the things in the book (such as weapons of mass destruction and the advent of euthanasia) ring true in the 21st century, others do not (the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]]), and either way Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction.

to:

* ValuesRessonance: Many Catholic readers and figures, like Joseph Pearce, Pope Benedict XVI, and Pope Francis, hailed the work as prophetic of modern times, citing how secularism and humanism have increasingly supplanted traditional morality, how religious doctrine is not tolerated in the name of tolerance, and more. Pope Francis in particular praised the novel as depicting "the spirit of the world which leads to apostasy almost as if it were a prophecy."
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative and Traditionalist Catholics (not those who don’t like (even Pope Francis or Vatican II, but those who think ''democracy'' Benedict XVI and ''the Enlightenment itself'' are affronts to God) insist Pope Francis) say this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. While some of the things in the book (such as weapons of mass destruction and the advent of euthanasia) ring true in the 21st century, others do not (the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]]), and either way Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction.
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** Felsenburgh is a Senator from Vermont in the 21st century who is a socialist. In the present day, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders self-identifies as a socialist.

to:

** Felsenburgh is a Senator from Vermont UsefulNotes/{{Vermont}} in the 21st century who is a socialist. In the present day, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders UsefulNotes/BernieSanders self-identifies as a socialist.

Added: 2570

Changed: 660

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* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel. It's even lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: StrawmanHasAPoint:
**
As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel. It's even lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.brotherhood.
** Much less defensible is Franklin telling Francis (who has just admitted that he no longer thinks any arguments for the faith are valid and is about to defect) that sure, Christianity isn’t true, but as long as smart people believe it it can’t be false. He basically says Francis is right but condemns him anyway. Even if the line is interpreted as meaning that intelligent Christians are the evidence Christianity is true, that still doesn’t work because it would also apply to every other religion or belief system and they can’t all be right. (Not to mention equivocating “can understand argument and learn new knowledge” with “is always right about everything”.)
** Mabel [[spoiler:commits suicide after witnessing Humanists murdering Catholic children and defiling their corpses]], because this proves Felsenburgh is a liar and his cult a ReligionOfEvil, so her whole identity is destroyed. The reader is meant to think that she should have converted to Catholicism after this to prevent [[spoiler:her suicide]], but unfortunately Humanists being evil doesn’t magically make Catholic apologetic arguments valid. As far as Mabel knew, the only two options were [[MortonsFork commit wanton crimes against humanity in the name of Felsenburgh and Humanism, or commit wanton crimes against humanity in the name of the Catholic Church]]. This ''is'' the organization that gave us the Inquisition and massacred heretics, after all. The narrative completely fails to argue against this, or that Christianity is true, because [[BeggingTheQuestion it’s assumed from the start]]. (And it doesn’t help that liberal theology is seen as practically heretical and not a valid option.) Thus, Mabel’s fate is a horrible example of what would happen to somebody who ''actually believed'' in the validity of a FalseDichotomy. She should have been able to TakeAThirdOption, but [[WriterOnBoard the author didn’t let her]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that the non-Christians (except for [[EnsembleDarkHorse Mabel]]) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as the narratives’ WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Readers who disagree with the author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that the non-Christians (except for [[EnsembleDarkHorse Mabel]]) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as because of the narratives’ narrative’s WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.
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Better explaining why some readers root against the heroes without implying the narrative is right about its opposition.


* RootingForTheEmpire: Some socialists, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, nonetheless support the Marxists that preceded him.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Some socialists, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, nonetheless support Readers who disagree with the Marxists author’s views will sometimes root for the bad guys out of pure spite for no other reason than that preceded him.the non-Christians (except for [[EnsembleDarkHorse Mabel]]) are total strawmen bearing little or no resemblance to their real-life counterparts, as well as the narratives’ WithUsOrAgainstUs attitude.

Changed: 983

Removed: 258

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Humanity in this book is not religiously skeptical; they *worship themselves*.


* RootingForTheEmpire: Some modern readers, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, may nonetheless support the secularist government that preceded him, in spite of its flaws, because the book doesn’t really argue for Catholicism so much as it demonizes the alternative and concludes that Catholicism must win by default, even though a country run by skeptics would probably realize something’s wrong with Felsenburgh and not go down that path, meaning that it would be more likely to reform than the Church would.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel.
** Lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Some modern readers, socialists, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, may nonetheless support the secularist government Marxists that preceded him, in spite of its flaws, because the book doesn’t really argue for Catholicism so much as it demonizes the alternative and concludes that Catholicism must win by default, even though a country run by skeptics would probably realize something’s wrong with Felsenburgh and not go down that path, meaning that it would be more likely to reform than the Church would.
him.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel.
** Lampshaded
Mabel. It's even lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.



* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative Catholics (not those who don’t like Pope Francis or Vatican II, but those who think ''democracy'' and ''the Enlightenment itself'' are affronts to God) insist this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. You know, despite the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]], to say nothing of the fact that Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction. Some of this group’s predictions, like Obama enacting Felsenburgh’s agenda, are real obvious shoehorning, not that it matters to these people.

to:

* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative Catholics (not those who don’t like Pope Francis or Vatican II, but those who think ''democracy'' and ''the Enlightenment itself'' are affronts to God) insist this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. You know, despite While some of the things in the book (such as weapons of mass destruction and the advent of euthanasia) ring true in the 21st century, others do not (the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]], to say nothing of the fact that century]]), and either way Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction. Some of this group’s predictions, like Obama enacting Felsenburgh’s agenda, are real obvious shoehorning, not that it matters to these people.fiction.
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* RootingForTheEmpire: Some modern readers, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, may nonetheless support the secularist government that preceded him, in spite of his flaws, because the book doesn’t really argue for Catholicism so much as it demonizes the alternative and concludes that Catholicism must win by default, even though a country run by skeptics would probably realize something’s wrong with Felsenburgh and not go down that path, meaning that it would be more likely to reform than the Church would.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Some modern readers, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, may nonetheless support the secularist government that preceded him, in spite of his its flaws, because the book doesn’t really argue for Catholicism so much as it demonizes the alternative and concludes that Catholicism must win by default, even though a country run by skeptics would probably realize something’s wrong with Felsenburgh and not go down that path, meaning that it would be more likely to reform than the Church would.

Added: 990

Changed: 162

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None


* HilariousInHindsight: Felsenburgh is a Senator from Vermont in the 21st century who is a socialist. In the present day, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders self-identifies as a socialist.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
**
Felsenburgh is a Senator from Vermont in the 21st century who is a socialist. In the present day, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders self-identifies as a socialist.
** More relevantly, the book calls out Marx and Hervé for leading the world down the path of socialism. While Hervé was indeed a Marxist at the time of publication, he would later join the far-right ''[[ANaziByAnyOtherName Action Française]]'', which was staunchly ultramontanist Catholic.


Added DiffLines:

* RootingForTheEmpire: Some modern readers, while still condemning Felsenburgh as a totalitarian dictator, may nonetheless support the secularist government that preceded him, in spite of his flaws, because the book doesn’t really argue for Catholicism so much as it demonizes the alternative and concludes that Catholicism must win by default, even though a country run by skeptics would probably realize something’s wrong with Felsenburgh and not go down that path, meaning that it would be more likely to reform than the Church would.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MisaimedFandom: Apparently, when the book came out, some socialists [[RootingForTheEmpire rooted for Felsenburgh]] and thought he won at the end. Presumably they didn’t know that Benson was a Catholic priest and would never write something like that, and also that the final sentence is a reference to a Latin saying about the end of the world.



** Lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.

to:

** Lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.brotherhood.
* ValuesDissonance: Before Felsenburgh takes over, how do we know the Marxists are evil? Because they [[FelonyMisdemeanor exiled the royal houses of Europe to Rome]]. The Marxists don’t actually oppress anyone until Felsenburgh comes along, but the narrative treats this as beyond the pale because of the divine right of kings.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: Some really conservative Catholics (not those who don’t like Pope Francis or Vatican II, but those who think ''democracy'' and ''the Enlightenment itself'' are affronts to God) insist this book is an accurate prophecy of the early 21st century. You know, despite the {{Zeerust}} and the [[FailedFutureForecast political predictions that have been falsified for more than a century]], to say nothing of the fact that Benson never claimed to be writing anything ''but'' fiction. Some of this group’s predictions, like Obama enacting Felsenburgh’s agenda, are real obvious shoehorning, not that it matters to these people.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel.Mabel.
** Lampshaded by the Pope himself, in order to highlight that the very means by which these were achieved were ultimately in service of a far greater evil, setting up another good opposite of God in the Humanist cult and its message of universal brotherhood.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Felsenburgh is a Senator from Vermont in the 21st century who is a socialist. In the present day, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders self-identifies as a socialist.
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Moving YMMV to its own page.

Added DiffLines:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: As much as Franklin hates and fears the Marxist states, it is true that they prevented many wars by eradicating nationalism, and Felsenburgh ''did'' broker an unprecedented peace. War is thought to be extinct by the middle of the book. However, when the state orders police to [[{{MoralEventHorizon}} stand down and let innocent Christians be killed]], it marks a turning point even for Mabel.

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