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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and some viewers reference several characters' views on the city (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) in which they call it a "shit city" while Olenna claims to the High Sparrow, "Half the men, women, and children in this foul city break the sacred laws," and that [the High Sparrow] lives among rapists, thieves, and murderers. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and some collar. Some viewers reference several characters' views on the city (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) in which they call it a "shit city" while Olenna claims to the High Sparrow, "Half the men, women, and children in this foul city break the sacred laws," and that [the High Sparrow] lives among rapists, thieves, and murderers. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and referencing several characters views on the city (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) call the city a "shit city" while Olenna claims to the High Sparrow, "Half the men, women, and children in this foul city break the sacred laws," and that [the High Sparrow] lives among rapists, thieves, and murderers. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and referencing some viewers reference several characters characters' views on the city (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) in which they call the city it a "shit city" while Olenna claims to the High Sparrow, "Half the men, women, and children in this foul city break the sacred laws," and that [the High Sparrow] lives among rapists, thieves, and murderers. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and several characters (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) call the city a "shit city". For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he led Yara through the city on a collar, and referencing several characters views on the city (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) call the city a "shit city".city" while Olenna claims to the High Sparrow, "Half the men, women, and children in this foul city break the sacred laws," and that [the High Sparrow] lives among rapists, thieves, and murderers. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, Olenna Tyrell calls the city a WretchedHive, and them cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, Olenna Tyrell calls the city a WretchedHive, and them cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead led Yara through the city on a collar.collar, and several characters (Sandor Clegane, Oberon Martell, and Olenna Tyrell) call the city a "shit city". For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, Olenna Tyrell outright saying the city is a WretchedHive with most of the populace being rapists, thieves, and murderers, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, Olenna Tyrell outright saying calls the city is a WretchedHive with most of the populace being rapists, thieves, WretchedHive, and murderers, and them cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, Olenna Tyrell outright saying the city is a WretchedHive with most of the populace being rapists, thieves, and murderers, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.


** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned King's Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards everyone, but especially Sansa and the North, that Dany would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.

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** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned King's Landing to the ground, killing millions? thousands? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards everyone, but especially Sansa and the North, that Dany would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.


* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will turn up alive in the finale. The next episode provides a definitive answer to that theory.

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* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are were convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will would turn up alive in the finale. The next episode provides a definitive answer to that theory.


* HilariousInHindsight: This episode confirmed Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives fans suspected he was hiding last episode because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her,"]] despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne. In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]
* The episode proves King Stannis right, when he was skeptical towards hiring the Golden Company in Season 4 Episode 3.

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* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
**
This episode confirmed Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives fans suspected he was hiding last episode because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her,"]] despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne. In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]
* ** The episode proves King Stannis right, when he was skeptical towards hiring the Golden Company in Season 4 Episode 3.
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** The episode proves King Stannis right, when he was skeptical towards hiring the Golden Company in Season 4 Episode 3.

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** * The episode proves King Stannis right, when he was skeptical towards hiring the Golden Company in Season 4 Episode 3.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King\'s Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned\'s execution, the riots against Joffrey\'s reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd\'s participation in Cersei\'s walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany\'s slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King\'s King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned\'s Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey\'s Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd\'s crowd's participation in Cersei\'s Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany\'s Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King\'s Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned\'s execution, the riots against Joffrey\'s reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd\'s participation in Cersei\'s walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany\'s slaughter exceptional in degree but not in kind.

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** The episode proves King Stannis right, when he was skeptical towards hiring the Golden Company in Season 4 Episode 3.


** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender despite its being treated like a commonly known custom in the episode. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender despite its it being treated like a commonly known custom in the episode. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]


** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender.surrender despite its being treated like a commonly known custom in the episode. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]


** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS02E09Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS02E09Blackwater [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** There is no in-universe precedence of tolling the city bells to signal surrender. Back in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS02E09Blackwater S02E09]] Ser Davos, who grew up in King's Landing and participated in the siege of Storm's End, even said to his son: "I've never known bells to mean surrender."[[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord kneels to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, either in person or as a formality on paper. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** Comparing Cersei's VillainousBreakdown to Theresa May's tearful resignation a couple weeks after the episode aired.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.
*** This completely ignores that the smallfolk had no idea of the truth of Joffrey's parentage and so didn't know that Ned wasn't a traitor, that Joffrey was a cruel King who started the war that left the smallfolk starving so the riots against him were well deserved, that it was only four men who tried to rape Sansa and they were all killed by the Hound, that Cersei's walk of shame was a well deserved punishment for her actions including murder and that Yara actually was a traitor at that point, seeing as Cersei was queen. So, the smallfolk of King's Landing had done nothing to deserve being burned alive.



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***This completely ignores that the smallfolk had no idea of the truth of Joffrey's parentage and so didn't know that Ned wasn't a traitor, that Joffrey was a cruel King who started the war that left the smallfolk starving so the riots against him were well deserved, that it was only four men who tried to rape Sansa and they were all killed by the Hound, that Cersei's walk of shame was a well deserved punishment for her actions including murder and that Yara actually was a traitor at that point, seeing as Cersei was queen. So, the smallfolk of King's Landing had done nothing to deserve being burned alive.


** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberyn; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past. On the other hand, maybe the whole point of the anticlimactic fight was to show how pointless living for revenge is, especially since Sandor had just warned Arya not to end up like him?

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** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberyn; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past. On Even if that was [[IntendedAudienceReaction the other hand, maybe point]], it doesn’t excuse Gregor [[SmartBall suddenly regaining his personality and antipathy for his brother with no explanation]] in time for the whole point of the anticlimactic fight was to show how pointless living for revenge is, fight, especially since Sandor when he had just warned Arya not to end up like him?shown no awareness the last time they faced one another.

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** In one shot, [[https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/a27539214/daenerys-drogon-editing-fail-game-of-thrones/ Daenerys is conspicuously absent from Drogon's back]] during his bombing runs.


* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will turn up alive in the finale. The next episode provides a definitive answer tho that theory.

to:

* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will turn up alive in the finale. The next episode provides a definitive answer tho to that theory.


* HesJustHiding: There were some fans who were convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and would turn up alive in the finale. [[spoiler:They were wrong.]]

to:

* HesJustHiding: There were are some fans who were are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and would will turn up alive in the finale. [[spoiler:They were wrong.]]The next episode provides a definitive answer tho that theory.


* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will turn up in the finale.

to:

* HesJustHiding: There are were some fans who are were convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will would turn up alive in the finale.finale. [[spoiler:They were wrong.]]


** Jamie's comment about not caring whether the people of King's Landing live or die. A piss-poor continuity error forced to justify Jamie's last minute rejection of redemption? Or Jamie admitting that while he was against the Mad King burning the people alive and stopped it from happening, he still held the commoners in King's Landing with contempt one finds from the upper-class and that Daenerys's recent losses of her dragons making him think that his sister's forces did indeed have a chance to fight off Daenerys and suffer only minor casualties?

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** Jamie's Jaime's comment about not caring whether the people of King's Landing live or die. A piss-poor continuity error forced to justify Jamie's Jaime's last minute rejection of redemption? Or Jamie Jaime admitting that while he was against the Mad King burning the people alive and stopped it from happening, he still held the commoners in King's Landing with contempt one finds from the upper-class and that Daenerys's recent losses of her dragons making him think that his sister's forces did indeed have a chance to fight off Daenerys and suffer only minor casualties?


** Daenerys as the Mad Queen, which has been criticised as Out Of Character by some and in-character but poorly executed by others. Issues with the development include the rushed nature of Dany's mental breakdown, the sexist implications of Dany and Cersei's madness compared to Jon's CharacterShilling, and the actions of other characters (Sansa, Jon, Varys, Tyrion) making Dany's breakdown more sympathetic than intended.

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** Daenerys as the Mad Queen, which has been criticised as Out Of Character OutOfCharacter by some and in-character but poorly executed by others. Issues with the development include the rushed nature of Dany's mental breakdown, the sexist implications of Dany and Cersei's madness compared to Jon's CharacterShilling, and the actions of other characters (Sansa, Jon, Varys, Tyrion) making Dany's breakdown more sympathetic than intended.

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* InternetBackdraft:
** Daenerys as the Mad Queen, which has been criticised as Out Of Character by some and in-character but poorly executed by others. Issues with the development include the rushed nature of Dany's mental breakdown, the sexist implications of Dany and Cersei's madness compared to Jon's CharacterShilling, and the actions of other characters (Sansa, Jon, Varys, Tyrion) making Dany's breakdown more sympathetic than intended.
** The resolution of the Jaime/Cersei subplot. Jaime's decision to die with Cersei was seen as a destruction of his character development (shunning his healthy relationship with Brienne, and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk), and Cersei dying in Jaime's arms was seen as unsatisfying for a character that has caused so much destruction.


** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys and her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage and civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon and severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.

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** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys and her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage and civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon and severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if had Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.


** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying, seeing it as a chance to salvage his guilt of unwittingly causing Myrcella's death? Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne? The episode demonstrates that Daenerys was perfectly capable of taking the city with few, if any civilian casualties, she simply chose to continue the destruction even after the city had surrendered. Did Tyrion simply underestimate Dany, Drogon, and their army's ability to do take the city so cleanly? Or did he think that there was a possibility that she would take things too far even before the deterioration of her mental state due to the losses of Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and the breakdown of her relationship with Jon? That even if she was perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal bloodshed, there was always the chance she'd choose not to?

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** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying, seeing it as a chance to salvage his guilt of unwittingly causing Myrcella's death? carrying. Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne? The episode demonstrates that Daenerys was perfectly capable of taking the city with few, if any civilian casualties, she simply chose to continue the destruction even after the city had surrendered. Did Tyrion simply underestimate Dany, Drogon, and their army's ability to do take the city so cleanly? Or did he think that there was a possibility that she would take things too far even before the deterioration of her mental state due to the losses of Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and the breakdown of her relationship with Jon? That even if she was perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal bloodshed, there was always the chance she'd choose not to?



** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom, creating a ContinuitySnarl in order to make it abundantly clear that the defending forces had surrendered [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]



* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy, and quite a few fan-favorite characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to genocidal villainy, and quite a few fan-favorite sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.



** Tyrion Lannister bellowed at his trial that he hated the people of King's Landing so much for being [[UngratefulBastard ingrates]] that he wished he did let Stannis KillEmAll. Now he can only look in horror, as another ruler, appalled and angered by ingratitude finally obliges his formerly-held desire.



** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines or ''any'' of the enemy movement or decisions), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't want (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.



** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.


* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad", which is closely linked to Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her father, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil, essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad", which is closely linked to Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her father, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil, essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.


* PowerOfTrust: At the beginning of the episode when Tyrion tells Danaerys of Varys' betrayal and she asks why Sansa would tell him, his answer is "She ''trusts'' me." His tone and small smile says he's touched that Sansa would trust him with information like this. (Then Danaerys quickly accuses Sansa of playing him - knowing he would spread secrets that would threaten his queen.)

Added DiffLines:

* PowerOfTrust: At the beginning of the episode when Tyrion tells Danaerys of Varys' betrayal and she asks why Sansa would tell him, his answer is "She ''trusts'' me." His tone and small smile says he's touched that Sansa would trust him with information like this. (Then Danaerys quickly accuses Sansa of playing him - knowing he would spread secrets that would threaten his queen.)


** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards everyone, but especially Sansa and the North, that Dany would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.
** Jamie's comment about not caring whether the people of Kings Landing live or die. A piss-poor continuity error forced to justify Jamie's last minute rejection of redemption? Or Jamie admitting that while he was against the Mad King burning the people alive and stopped it from happening, he still held the commoners in King's Landing with contempt one finds from the upper class and that Daenerys's recent losses of her dragons making him think that his sister's forces did indeed have a chance to fight off Daenerys and suffer only minor casualties?

to:

** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings King's Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards everyone, but especially Sansa and the North, that Dany would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.
** Jamie's comment about not caring whether the people of Kings King's Landing live or die. A piss-poor continuity error forced to justify Jamie's last minute rejection of redemption? Or Jamie admitting that while he was against the Mad King burning the people alive and stopped it from happening, he still held the commoners in King's Landing with contempt one finds from the upper class upper-class and that Daenerys's recent losses of her dragons making him think that his sister's forces did indeed have a chance to fight off Daenerys and suffer only minor casualties?



** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaselling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had been sidelined in both this season and the last.

to:

** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaselling weaseling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had been sidelined in both this season and the last.



* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which is closely linked to Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her father, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" bad", which is closely linked to Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her father, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil EvilVersusEvil, essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.


** "X scene brilliantly foreshadows Daenery's complete 180/Jaime's broken character arc/viewer disappointment in the series...".[[note]] After the writers highlighted Dany's muted reaction to her (incredibly abusive and threatening) brother [[Recap/GameOfThronesS1E6AGoldenCrown Viserys's death]] in Season One as an example of an early hint as to [[https://twitter.com/targarcyn/status/1127765060091359232 Dany's callousness towards her enemies]] (and also justification for her actions in this episode), [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprul0/the_season_5_finale_where_jon_is_killed_by_the/ many]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bptc2f/in_his_series_debut_tywin_lannister_butchers_a/ memes]] quickly [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bpxutk/as_you_can_see_here_in_5x08_jon_and_the_night/ sprouted]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprfgo/jon_mad_king_20_snow_executing_a_man_begging_for/ up]] using the preceding text format to satirize disappointment with Season 8 by contrasting it to well-received scenes in earlier seasons. [[/note]]

to:

** "X scene brilliantly foreshadows Daenery's complete 180/Jaime's broken character arc/viewer disappointment in the series...".[[note]] After the writers highlighted Dany's muted reaction to her (incredibly abusive and threatening) brother [[Recap/GameOfThronesS1E6AGoldenCrown Viserys's death]] in Season One as an example of an early hint as to [[https://twitter.com/targarcyn/status/1127765060091359232 Dany's callousness towards her enemies]] (and also justification for her actions in this episode), [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprul0/the_season_5_finale_where_jon_is_killed_by_the/ many]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bptc2f/in_his_series_debut_tywin_lannister_butchers_a/ memes]] quickly [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bpxutk/as_you_can_see_here_in_5x08_jon_and_the_night/ sprouted]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprfgo/jon_mad_king_20_snow_executing_a_man_begging_for/ up]] using the preceding text format to satirize disappointment with Season 8 by contrasting it to well-received scenes in earlier seasons.seasons, especially to point out scenes that did not reflect the eventual direction for a character by the finale. [[/note]]

Added DiffLines:

* FauxSymbolism: The apropos appearance of the proverbial, apocalyptic white horse can come off as rather gratuitous, given [[CrystalDragonJesus the setting]].

Added DiffLines:

** Following Jaime's confession that he never cared about innocent civilians despite killing Aerys for that reason, "X never really cared about Y" has become a joke pointing out character arcs making a sudden u-turn like "Ned Stark really never cared about honor."


** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the Royal Air Force to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the UK.[[/note]]


* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts is closely linked to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, father, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.

Added DiffLines:

** "X scene brilliantly foreshadows Daenery's complete 180/Jaime's broken character arc/viewer disappointment in the series...".[[note]] After the writers highlighted Dany's muted reaction to her (incredibly abusive and threatening) brother [[Recap/GameOfThronesS1E6AGoldenCrown Viserys's death]] in Season One as an example of an early hint as to [[https://twitter.com/targarcyn/status/1127765060091359232 Dany's callousness towards her enemies]] (and also justification for her actions in this episode), [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprul0/the_season_5_finale_where_jon_is_killed_by_the/ many]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bptc2f/in_his_series_debut_tywin_lannister_butchers_a/ memes]] quickly [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bpxutk/as_you_can_see_here_in_5x08_jon_and_the_night/ sprouted]] [[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bprfgo/jon_mad_king_20_snow_executing_a_man_begging_for/ up]] using the preceding text format to satirize disappointment with Season 8 by contrasting it to well-received scenes in earlier seasons. [[/note]]


** The entire massacre of Kings Landing. Was it long overdue karma for the Lannisters, by people (the North) who suffered unspeakable due to their machinations during the previous seven seasons? Especially since Tyrion had made multiple overtures for them to surrender peacefully before the attack? Or was it a war crime, one that will make martyrs out of Cersei and Euron and vindicate them in the eyes of history, while irrevocably damn Daenerys to genocidal maniac status in the history of Westeros and be a dark mark on the North, due to their collaboration in the attack?
** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city, an evil act made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards EVERYONE, but especially Sansa and the North, that Danny would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.

to:

** The entire massacre reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of Kings Landing. Was it long overdue karma them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the Lannisters, by people (the North) who suffered unspeakable due to their machinations during sake of the previous seven seasons? Especially since Tyrion had made multiple overtures for them to surrender peacefully before realm. While it's not clear if he meant the attack? Or was it a war crime, one that will make martyrs out of civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei and Euron and vindicate them in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the eyes aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of history, while irrevocably damn Daenerys the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to genocidal maniac status Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the Royal Air Force to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the history of Westeros and be a dark mark on the North, due to their collaboration in the attack?
UK.[[/note]]
** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city, an evil act city made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards EVERYONE, everyone, but especially Sansa and the North, that Danny Dany would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.



** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying? Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne?
*** The episode demonstrates that Daenerys was perfectly capable of taking the city with few, if any civilian casualties, she simply chose to continue the destruction even after the city had surrendered. Did Tyrion think simply underestimate Dany, Drogon, and their army's ability to do take the city so cleanly? Or did he think that there was a possibility that she would take things too far even before the deterioration of her mental state due to the losses of Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and the breakdown of her relationship with Jon? That even if she was perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal bloodshed, there was always the chance she'd choose not to?

to:

** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying? carrying, seeing it as a chance to salvage his guilt of unwittingly causing Myrcella's death? Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne?
***
throne? The episode demonstrates that Daenerys was perfectly capable of taking the city with few, if any civilian casualties, she simply chose to continue the destruction even after the city had surrendered. Did Tyrion think simply underestimate Dany, Drogon, and their army's ability to do take the city so cleanly? Or did he think that there was a possibility that she would take things too far even before the deterioration of her mental state due to the losses of Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and the breakdown of her relationship with Jon? That even if she was perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal bloodshed, there was always the chance she'd choose not to?

Added DiffLines:

*** The episode demonstrates that Daenerys was perfectly capable of taking the city with few, if any civilian casualties, she simply chose to continue the destruction even after the city had surrendered. Did Tyrion think simply underestimate Dany, Drogon, and their army's ability to do take the city so cleanly? Or did he think that there was a possibility that she would take things too far even before the deterioration of her mental state due to the losses of Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and the breakdown of her relationship with Jon? That even if she was perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal bloodshed, there was always the chance she'd choose not to?


*** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city, an evil act made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards EVERYONE, but especially Sansa and the North, that Danny would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.

to:

*** ** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city, an evil act made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards EVERYONE, but especially Sansa and the North, that Danny would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.



*** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying? Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne?

to:

*** ** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying? Or is he truly concerned of the implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres soldiers and innocents to take the throne?



* RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued. The fact that Cersei and Varys are UnintentionallyUnsympathetic (as seen below) helps.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued. The fact that Cersei and Varys are UnintentionallyUnsympathetic (as seen below) helps.



** The show also wants us to sympathize with Tyrion for being the sole moderate voice of reason in Dany's council over zealots like Grey Worm, and someone whose faith in Daenerys is betrayed, while Dany browbeating him is treated as her being a BadBoss. Others point out that Tyrion has genuinely been a terrible Hand who has screwed up multiple chances and opportunities given to him, starting right from the beginning with his handling of Meereen where he got suckered by the Masters of Slave Cities, over the objections of both Missandei and Grey Worm who [[IWarnedYou warned him]] but gave him the initial [[BeingPersonalIsntProfessional benefit of the doubt]] until his mess nearly got them killed, which explains and justifies Grey Worm's hardened resolve against his "advice". Tyrion's plan to attrition war Cersei into submission has led to tremendous losses for Dany, both in military and personal terms. Tyrion's peace deal with Cersei to create a Grand Alliance to stop the Long Night was based on his total misreading of his sister's personality. In other words, when Tyrion negotiates a LastSecondChance for the city to surrender by ringing the bells and opening the gates (with the bells being run ''after'' the breach well past the deadline), there's little to no reason for Daenerys to listen to him. In the long run, fewer lives would have been lost had Daenerys gone to King's Landing right from the start and not prolonged the war the way Tyrion has. Anyone in real life with as many failures as Tyrion has in military and civil service, would have been removed from service and demoted and the fact that Daenerys kept him around for as long as she has is indeed a sign of her mercy.

to:

** The show also wants us to sympathize with Tyrion is presented as deserving of sympathy for being the sole moderate voice of reason in Dany's council over zealots like Grey Worm, and someone whose faith in Daenerys is betrayed, while Dany browbeating him is treated as her being a BadBoss. Others point out that Tyrion However, as Hand, most of Tyrion's advice has been genuinely been a terrible Hand who awful and he has screwed up multiple chances and opportunities given to him, starting right from the beginning with times during his handling of Meereen where he got suckered by the Masters of Slave Cities, over the objections of both Missandei and Grey Worm who [[IWarnedYou warned him]] but gave him the initial [[BeingPersonalIsntProfessional benefit of the doubt]] until his mess nearly got them killed, which explains and justifies Grey Worm's hardened resolve against his "advice". Tyrion's plan to attrition war Cersei into submission has led to tremendous losses for Dany, both in military and personal terms. Tyrion's peace deal with Cersei to create a Grand Alliance to stop the Long Night was based on his total misreading of his sister's personality. In other words, when Tyrion negotiates a LastSecondChance tenure, bearing responsibility for the city to surrender by ringing siege of Meereen, the bells loss of Highgarden, the destruction of Yara's Iron Fleet, and opening the gates (with the bells being run ''after'' the breach well past the deadline), there's little to no reason for Daenerys to listen to him. In the long run, fewer lives would have been lost had Daenerys gone to King's Landing right from the start and not prolonged the war the way Tyrion has. imprisonment of Dany's Dornish allies. Anyone in real life with as many failures as Tyrion has in military and civil service, service failures would have been removed from service and demoted and the fact that demoted; Daenerys kept keeping him around for as long as she has is indeed a sign of her mercy.

Added DiffLines:

*** Did Daenerys truly snap and go full blown insane when she burned Kings Landing to the ground, killing millions? Or was her act of mass murder towards a surrendering city, an evil act made by her with all of her mental capacities intact and fully aware that she was committing an act of unspeakable evil? Mass murdering the city and the Lannister forces would have sent a message towards EVERYONE, but especially Sansa and the North, that Danny would gladly murder them all if they didn't bow down to her and accept her as their new Queen and obey her without a second's hesitation.


* AntiClimaxBoss: After two seasons of hyping up Cersei’s forces as dangerously formidable against Dany's army, nearly the entire Lannister defense -- the Iron Fleet, the Lannister regulars, the Golden Company, the scorpion batteries, the Kingsguard -- proves to be hilariously outmatched. Drogon torches the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company, and the scorpion batteries while the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Northmen slaughter the Lannister regulars with ease. The Kingsguard, save Gregor, are cut down by Sandor with virtually zero effort on his part. The leaders of the above die fairly ignoble deaths. Only Gregor Clegane manages to be a threat to anyone and the only enemy he fights is his brother Sandor.

to:

* AntiClimaxBoss: After two seasons of hyping up Cersei’s forces as dangerously formidable against Dany's army, nearly the entire Lannister defense -- the Iron Fleet, the Lannister regulars, the Golden Company, the scorpion batteries, the Kingsguard -- proves to be hilariously outmatched. Drogon torches the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company, and the scorpion batteries while the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Northmen slaughter the Lannister regulars with ease. The Kingsguard, save Gregor, are cut down by Sandor with virtually zero effort on his part. The leaders of the above die fairly ignoble deaths. Only Gregor Clegane manages to be a threat to anyone and the only enemy he fights is his brother Sandor. And Cersei herself dies crushed by rubble, completely outmatched and powerless to stop Dany, instead of facing the latter.


** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the Royal Air Force to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the UK.[[/note]]
** Was Jaime's claim about not really caring about innocent people actually a retcon or continuity error, or was he just lying to Tyrion and himself to reinforce his decision to turn his back on redemption to be with Cersei?
** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly and cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon and the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime and Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing his loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?

to:

** The reason Dany entire massacre of Kings Landing. Was it long overdue karma for the Lannisters, by people (the North) who suffered unspeakable due to their machinations during the previous seven seasons? Especially since Tyrion had made multiple overtures for them to surrender peacefully before the attack? Or was it a war crime, one that will make martyrs out of Cersei and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly Euron and vindicate them in the punitive campaign eyes of history, while irrevocably damn Daenerys to genocidal maniac status in the history of Westeros and be a dark mark on the North, due to their collaboration in the attack?
** Jamie's comment about not caring whether the people of Kings Landing live or die. A piss-poor continuity error forced to justify Jamie's last minute rejection of redemption? Or Jamie admitting that while he was against the Mad King burning the people alive and stopped it from happening, he still held the commoners in
King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far contempt one finds from the behavior upper class and that Daenerys's recent losses of her dragons making him think that his sister's forces did indeed have a chance to fight off Daenerys and suffer only minor casualties?
*** Tyrion's obsession with ending the war between Cersei and Daenerys peacefully. Does he truly want to protect his family, even if it means he will be killed by Daenerys for disobeying her desire to kill her? Is he only motivated by the fact that Cersei is pregnant and trying to protect the unborn child she is carrying? Or is he truly concerned
of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and implications for a potential Daenerys reign if she massacres by soldiers and innocents to take the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the Royal Air Force to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the UK.[[/note]]
** Was Jaime's claim about not really caring about innocent people actually a retcon or continuity error, or was he just lying to Tyrion and himself to reinforce his decision to turn his back on redemption to be with Cersei?
** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly and cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon and the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime and Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing his loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?
throne?


* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option. Then there's what this [[https://dangerouscharacters.substack.com/p/who-wins-who-dies-game-of-thrones implies for her character arc]] as a whole...

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option. Then there's what this [[https://dangerouscharacters.substack.com/p/who-wins-who-dies-game-of-thrones implies for her character arc]] as a whole...


* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option. Then there's what this [[https://dangerouscharacters.substack.com/p/who-wins-who-dies-game-of-thrones implies for her character arc]] as a whole...


** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (which given that following Tyrion's advice in Meereen nearly got him and Missandei killed when Tyrion had ignored their warnings he has reasons to be skeptical and dismissive about) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.


** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (which given that following Tyrion's advice in Meereen nearly got him and Missandei killed when the latter had ignored their warnings he has reasons to be skeptical and dismissive about) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.

to:

** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (which given that following Tyrion's advice in Meereen nearly got him and Missandei killed when the latter Tyrion had ignored their warnings he has reasons to be skeptical and dismissive about) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.


** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (with his advice nearly getting him and Missandei killed in Tyrion when he had ignored their warnings) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.

to:

** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (with his (which given that following Tyrion's advice in Meereen nearly getting got him and Missandei killed in Tyrion when he the latter had ignored their warnings) warnings he has reasons to be skeptical and dismissive about) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.

Added DiffLines:

** Grey Worm's anger towards King's Landing and him leading the sack of King's Landing is understandable when you factor in that throughout Season 8, he has voiced displeasure at the racism that he and Missandei were greeted with in the North, despite coming to their aid against the Long Night. In Episode 2, Grey Worm confesses bitterly to Missandei that for the likes of them, there's NoPlaceForMeThere, the Westerosi will never accept them and that after Daenerys wins her wars, he plans to go to Isle of Naath with her and help the locals resist slave ships. The unjust death of Missandei at Cersei's hands, which in his mind counts as a HappyEndingOverride since both of them had survived the Long Night only to lose in what they saw as a post-epilogue skirmish, coupled with Tyrion's and Jon's repeated granting of second chances to King's Landing (with his advice nearly getting him and Missandei killed in Tyrion when he had ignored their warnings) simply made him fed up, with him and the Unsullied unleashing RevengeByProxy on the people of King's Landing [[CreateYourOwnVillain for the xenophobia]] he and Missandei had experienced across the season, coupled with his loss of patience with honoring the norms of Westeros while the latter never accepts him and other outsiders.


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. custom, creating a ContinuitySnarl in order to make it abundantly clear that the defending forces had surrendered [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]



** Many Dothraki are seen taking part in the massacre in King's Landing despite that they're supposed to be all but wiped out during the Long Night battle. It ''could'' be handwaved that Dany has some Dothraki kept in reserve somewhere, most likely stationed at Dragonstone, that she brought with her on her way to King's Landing, but it is never made clear in-story so it gives the impression that those Dothraki came out of nowhere.

Added DiffLines:

** The show also wants us to sympathize with Tyrion for being the sole moderate voice of reason in Dany's council over zealots like Grey Worm, and someone whose faith in Daenerys is betrayed, while Dany browbeating him is treated as her being a BadBoss. Others point out that Tyrion has genuinely been a terrible Hand who has screwed up multiple chances and opportunities given to him, starting right from the beginning with his handling of Meereen where he got suckered by the Masters of Slave Cities, over the objections of both Missandei and Grey Worm who [[IWarnedYou warned him]] but gave him the initial [[BeingPersonalIsntProfessional benefit of the doubt]] until his mess nearly got them killed, which explains and justifies Grey Worm's hardened resolve against his "advice". Tyrion's plan to attrition war Cersei into submission has led to tremendous losses for Dany, both in military and personal terms. Tyrion's peace deal with Cersei to create a Grand Alliance to stop the Long Night was based on his total misreading of his sister's personality. In other words, when Tyrion negotiates a LastSecondChance for the city to surrender by ringing the bells and opening the gates (with the bells being run ''after'' the breach well past the deadline), there's little to no reason for Daenerys to listen to him. In the long run, fewer lives would have been lost had Daenerys gone to King's Landing right from the start and not prolonged the war the way Tyrion has. Anyone in real life with as many failures as Tyrion has in military and civil service, would have been removed from service and demoted and the fact that Daenerys kept him around for as long as she has is indeed a sign of her mercy.

Added DiffLines:

* UnfortunateImplications: [[https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-cersei-mad-queen-twist-sexist-trope-2019-5 As some observers point out]], [[https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/ the poor execution]] of Dany "breaking bad" which amounts to Dany being motivated by Jon rejecting her, flimsy InTheBlood justifications by Varys and others that she was always destined to be evil because of her ancestral blood, as well as framing the conflict between Dany and Cersei as EvilVersusEvil essentially amounts to implying that "women are unfit for power and shouldn't rule" and that the male heir (Jon) is always the safe, moderate, and rational option.


** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the UK.[[/note]]

to:

** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF Royal Air Force to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in the UK.[[/note]]


** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

to:

** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), goldmines or ''any'' of the enemy movement or decisions), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't want (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.



** Varys' death scene also came off this way to some, in which his death was presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was justified given his hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and betrayal of Daenerys in trying to replace her, attempting to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.


** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys & her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage & civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon and severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.

to:

** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys & and her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage & and civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon and severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.


** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys & her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage & civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon & severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.

to:

** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys & her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage & civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon & and severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.


** Robert ''the feckless drunkard king'' Baratheon was the first to predict that Daenerys would be a nightmare to Westeros while traveling with Ned Stark. And just like his uncle Ned, Jon Snow failed to see the danger until it was too late. Things would have turned out better for ''everyone'' if Robert had continued sending assassins rather than being talked out of it by Ned. By extension, Barristan saving her from the one attempt that actually did get launched indirectly makes him responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians (and that's just in Westeros).

to:

** Robert ''the feckless drunkard king'' Baratheon was the first to predict that Daenerys would be a nightmare to Westeros while traveling with Ned Stark. And just like his uncle Ned, Jon Snow failed to see the danger until it was too late. Things would have turned out better for ''everyone'' if Robert had continued sending assassins rather than being talked out of it by Ned. By extension, Barristan and Jorah saving her from the one attempt attempts that actually did get launched indirectly makes him them responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians (and that's just in Westeros).

Added DiffLines:

** WordOfGod is that were it not for the grief and anger at her personal losses and betrayals leading up to the battle, Daenerys would have accepted the city's surrender. And the episode demonstrates that Daenerys & her forces were perfectly capable of taking the city with minimal collateral damage & civilian casualties before her madness took hold, and this is with only one dragon & severely depleted numbers. With all this in mind, if Tyrion not tried to talk Daenerys out of attacking earlier, something he did out a desire to save lives, tens of thousands of lives would have been spared the fire.


** "Dragonfire can't melt stone beams" which is similar to an earlier, similar meme referring to the explosion of Great Baelor Sept, poking fun at the inconsistency of dragonfire being capable to pulverize buildings.

to:

** "Dragonfire can't melt stone beams" which is similar to an earlier, similar meme referring to the explosion of Great Baelor Sept, poking fun at the inconsistency of dragonfire being capable able to pulverize buildings.

Added DiffLines:

** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

Added DiffLines:

** "[[HarsherInHindsight Mom, why did you name me after the evil witch?]]" referring to an hypothetical scenario where the girls named Daenerys before her FaceHeelTurn in her episode eventually grow up and ask why they were named after her.
** "Dragonfire can't melt stone beams" which is similar to an earlier, similar meme referring to the explosion of Great Baelor Sept, poking fun at the inconsistency of dragonfire being capable to pulverize buildings.


** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

to:

** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]the UK.[[/note]]


** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

to:

** The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm Seven Kingdoms and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]



to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.
** Varys' death scene also came off this way to some, in which his death was presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was justified given his hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and betrayal of Daenerys in trying to replace her, attempting to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept.


* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, some fans felt she was made more sympathetic due to the North's distrust and wariness of her over the season and saw her as unsupported emotionally after the losses she experienced, feeling that most of her circle (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) failed to counsel her emotionally and didn't do enough to comfort her, leading to her massive emotional breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.



** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.


** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly and cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon and the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime and Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?

to:

** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly and cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon and the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime and Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is his loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?


** Was Jaime's claim about not really caring about innocent people actually a retcon or continuity error, or was he just lying to Tyrion & himself to reinforce his decision to turn his back on redemption to be with Cersei?
** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?

to:

** Was Jaime's claim about not really caring about innocent people actually a retcon or continuity error, or was he just lying to Tyrion & and himself to reinforce his decision to turn his back on redemption to be with Cersei?
** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & and cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & and the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & and Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?


** A shot of Jaime with his amputated hand intact led to jokes that his character development went so far backward that his hand (the loss of which kickstarted his character development) grew back.

to:

** A shot shot[[note]]Promotional shot, the error is fixed in the actual episode[[/note]] of Jaime with his amputated hand intact led to jokes that his character development went so far backward that his hand (the loss of which kickstarted his character development) grew back.


* SpecialEffectFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys's POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.

to:

* SpecialEffectFailure: SpecialEffectFailure:
**
Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys's POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.



** Jaime appears to have two perfectly good hands in his final shot when holding Cersei.


** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?

to:

** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack; attack from the moment Dany landed on Dragonstone; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?


** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TruamaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?

to:

** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TruamaCongaLine TraumaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]Europe[[/note]]
** Was Jaime's claim about not really caring about innocent people actually a retcon or continuity error, or was he just lying to Tyrion & himself to reinforce his decision to turn his back on redemption to be with Cersei?
** This episode shows that Dany and her forces were entirely capable of taking the capital by storm without inflicting massive collateral damage and civilian casualties, though that ended up going out the window eventually. This raises questions about Tyrion being so adamantly against the attack; was he simply wrong in thinking it couldn't be done so quickly & cleanly, underestimating Dany's ability to attack with precision with Drogon & the army's ability to maintain discipline? Or did he always believe in the back of his mind that, given the opportunity to burn a city, there was the possibility that Dany would lose control and do what she ended up doing, even before she suffered the TruamaCongaLine of the last several episodes? Or was his plan to siege the city always done with the intention of giving Jaime & Cersei the chance to escape, prioritizing is loyalty to family over his loyalty to Dany?


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].

Added DiffLines:

** Tyrion Lannister bellowed at his trial that he hated the people of King's Landing so much for being [[UngratefulBastard ingrates]] that he wished he did let Stannis KillEmAll. Now he can only look in horror, as another ruler, appalled and angered by ingratitude finally obliges his formerly-held desire.


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].

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** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. There's also the fact that the people of King's Landing were prejudiced towards Tyrion, both smallfolk and the courtier class, and that Tyrion famously bellowed at his trial, that they were so hateful that he wished he had let Stannis KillEmAll. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister told Cersei in Season 7 that not sending the forces she agreed to send in order to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward They put their lives on the line to defend the realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the capital in the south [[GrassIsGreener is unaware of and unaffected by the Army of the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. While it's not clear if he meant the civilian population would be punished, Jaime Lannister told Cersei in [[Recap/GameOfThronesS7E7TheDragonAndTheWolf Season 7 7's finale]] that not sending the forces she agreed to send in order to help defeat the Army of the Dead would be met with retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived [[UngratefulBastard ingratitude]], [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends They put their lives on the line to defend the world]] realm and experienced loss in the process]], battling in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that apocalypse. Meanwhile, they see the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived [[UngratefulBastard ingratitude]], south [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], is unaware of and absence unaffected by the Army of sacrifices the Dead]], having not sacrificed anything for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to told Cersei in Season 7 that not sending the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for forces she agreed to send in order to help defeat the cause Army of the North Dead would be met with vengeance retaliation for breaking their vow in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]



** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys's fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a tyrannical conqueror and mass murderer after all.

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** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys's fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were turned out to be ''absolutely right,'' and right'' based on the events of this episode while everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was turned out to be ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a tyrannical conqueror and mass murderer after all.



** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander (and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when Jon intervenes to prevent the soldier from having his way with her.

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** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back.stop attacking. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander (and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when Jon intervenes to prevent the soldier from having his way with her.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, some fans felt she was made more sympathetic due to the North's distrust and wariness of her over the season and saw her as unsupported emotionally after the losses she experienced, feeling that those around her (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) didn't do enough to counsel and/or comfort her, leading to her massive emotional breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.

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* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, some fans felt she was made more sympathetic due to the North's distrust and wariness of her over the season and saw her as unsupported emotionally after the losses she experienced, feeling that those around most of her circle (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) failed to counsel her emotionally and didn't do enough to counsel and/or comfort her, leading to her massive emotional breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.


** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode, seemingly confirmed by the rout by the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal's death and Missandei's capture and execution, didn't really mean anything in terms of her assessment of the fatigue of the surviving Northern troops and Dany's own army. Considering that Dany and Drogon singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before and indeed if anything, Dany's punitive campaign on King's Landing is overwhelmingly popular with the Northern Army, considering how Jon Snow is shown as a distinct minority in trying to rein in the sack.

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** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode, seemingly confirmed by the rout by the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal's death and Missandei's capture and execution, didn't really mean anything in terms of her assessment of the fatigue of the surviving Northern troops and Dany's own army. Considering that Dany and Drogon singlehandedly nearly annihilate Cersei's forces singlehandedly on her own, with only their own and bring down the gate, which allows her troops backing her up to pick off enter the city with minimal fighting before Cersei's forces drop their weapons, the surviving enemies. Unsullied, Dothraki, and Northern troops seem more than able to battle enemy forces before the city surrenders. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before and indeed if anything, before, seemingly stirred by Dany's punitive campaign continued attack on King's Landing is overwhelmingly popular the city, with the Northern Army, considering how only Jon Snow is and Davos shown as a the distinct minority in trying to rein in stop the sack.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, some fans felt she was made more sympathetic due to the North's distrust and wariness of her over the season and felt that those around her (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) didn't do enough to counsel and/or comfort her after the losses she experienced since episode 3, leading to her massive emotional breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.

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* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, some fans felt she was made more sympathetic due to the North's distrust and wariness of her over the season and felt saw her as unsupported emotionally after the losses she experienced, feeling that those around her (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) didn't do enough to counsel and/or comfort her after the losses she experienced since episode 3, her, leading to her massive emotional breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.


** Dany's sudden SanitySlippage is actually because the production team [[MustHaveCaffeine took her Starbucks away.]]

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** Dany's sudden SanitySlippage is actually because the production team [[MustHaveCaffeine took her Starbucks away.]]away]] or because she's 'hangry' after not eating for two days.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, many fans felt that the lack of respect for her throughout the season by the North and the complete lack of emotional support she had received for the traumas led to a massive emotional breakdown had those around her (Jon, Tyrion, Varys) tried at all to comfort or counsel her. Varys, in particular, responds to her emotional state by trying to poison her food.

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* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, many some fans felt that she was made more sympathetic due to the lack North's distrust and wariness of respect for her throughout over the season by the North and the complete lack of emotional support she had received for the traumas led to a massive emotional breakdown had felt that those around her (Jon, Tyrion, and Varys) tried at all didn't do enough to counsel and/or comfort or counsel her. Varys, in particular, responds her after the losses she experienced since episode 3, leading to her massive emotional state by breakdown. Meanwhile, Varys is plotting to replace her and trying to poison her food.



** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

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** Varys' death scene also came off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many Some felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

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* UnintentionallySympathetic: While Daenerys’ actions are meant to be irredeemable, many fans felt that the lack of respect for her throughout the season by the North and the complete lack of emotional support she had received for the traumas led to a massive emotional breakdown had those around her (Jon, Tyrion, Varys) tried at all to comfort or counsel her. Varys, in particular, responds to her emotional state by trying to poison her food.


* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to genocidal villainy, and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to genocidal villainy, and quite a few sympathetic fan-favorite characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]] [[FridgeBrilliance Maybe Cersei using an 'incorrect' signal of surrender caused the destruction of King's Landing?]]

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** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]] [[FridgeBrilliance Maybe Cersei using an 'incorrect' signal of surrender caused the destruction of King's Landing?]]


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

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** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]sufficed[[/labelnote]] [[FridgeBrilliance Maybe Cersei using an 'incorrect' signal of surrender caused the destruction of King's Landing?]]

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** Many Dothraki are seen taking part in the massacre in King's Landing despite that they're supposed to be all but wiped out during the Long Night battle. It ''could'' be handwaved that Dany has some Dothraki kept in reserve somewhere, most likely stationed at Dragonstone, that she brought with her on her way to King's Landing, but it is never made clear in-story so it gives the impression that those Dothraki came out of nowhere.

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* HesJustHiding: There are some fans who are convinced that Jaime somehow survived the destruction of the Red Keep and will turn up in the finale.


** There's an unintentionally amusing moment where before the big showdown between the Clegane brothers, Cersei shuffles off down the stairs like she's the third wheel in a lovers' spat.

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** There's an unintentionally amusing moment where before the big showdown between the Clegane brothers, Cersei shuffles off down the stairs like she's the third wheel in a lovers' spat.child sneaking past their arguing parents.

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** A shot of Jaime with his amputated hand intact led to jokes that his character development went so far backward that his hand (the loss of which kickstarted his character development) grew back.

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** Among NFL fans, jokes about Aaron Rodgers getting torched like he torched defenses have spread rather widely after Rodgers' cameo as a commoner running from Drogon's fire but being immolated anyway.


*** Conversely, while the fight itself is rather lackluster, many fans hated Euron and were glad to see him die if only since now they won’t have to see him on screen anymore.



** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
*** Reportedly, Euron was meant to just die but [[WagTheDirector the actor kept ruining the takes purposely]] until allowed to give an impromptu death speech.

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** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
*** Reportedly,
in. (Reportedly, Euron was meant to just die but [[WagTheDirector the actor kept ruining the takes purposely]] until allowed to give an impromptu death speech.)


* AntiClimaxBoss: After two seasons of hyping up Cersei’s forces as dangerously formidable against Dany’s army, nearly the entire Lannister defense— the Iron Fleet, the Lannister regulars, the Golden Company, the scorpion batteries, the Kingsguard— are all hilariously incapable of stopping Drogon or the Unsullied in completely massacring them. Meanwhile, the individual heads of Team Cersei— Qyburn, Captain Strickland, Euron, Jaime, and Cersei herself— all die pretty effortlessly. Only Gregor Clegane manages to be a threat to anyone and the only enemy he fights is his brother Sandor.

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* AntiClimaxBoss: After two seasons of hyping up Cersei’s forces as dangerously formidable against Dany’s Dany's army, nearly the entire Lannister defense— defense -- the Iron Fleet, the Lannister regulars, the Golden Company, the scorpion batteries, the Kingsguard— are all Kingsguard -- proves to be hilariously incapable of stopping outmatched. Drogon or torches the Unsullied in completely massacring them. Meanwhile, Iron Fleet, the individual heads of Team Cersei— Qyburn, Captain Strickland, Euron, Jaime, Golden Company, and Cersei herself— all the scorpion batteries while the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Northmen slaughter the Lannister regulars with ease. The Kingsguard, save Gregor, are cut down by Sandor with virtually zero effort on his part. The leaders of the above die pretty effortlessly.fairly ignoble deaths. Only Gregor Clegane manages to be a threat to anyone and the only enemy he fights is his brother Sandor.


*** Reportedly, Euron was meant to just die but the actor kept ruining the takes purposely until allowed to give an impromptu death speech.

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*** Reportedly, Euron was meant to just die but [[WagTheDirector the actor kept ruining the takes purposely purposely]] until allowed to give an impromptu death speech.

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** Jaime appears to have two perfectly good hands in his final shot when holding Cersei.


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As per Tyrion, the sign for surrender is "ring the bells and open the gates", that deadline ended when Dany on Drogon destroyed the gates and opened the breach. When the bells finally rang it was left unclear as to the order to ring them coming from the court or the panicked local cohort since Cersei in the preceding scene had ordered her soldiers to fight to the last man. As such Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:
-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this was not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’ ... Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."
-->-- Leonard F. Taylor, There Shall Be Survivors: The Prohibition of the Denial of Quarter in International Law


* IronicEcho: Just two episodes ago, the greatest threat in Westeros was a merciless monarch with a dragon, which he used to destroy the army created to keep him at bay then blow a giant hole in the wall that was protecting the innocent population from him. Now, the greatest threat in Westeros is a merciless monarch with a dragon, which [[DistaffCounterpart she]] used to destroy the army created to keep her at bay then blow a giant hole in the wall that was protecting the innocent population from her.

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* IronicEcho: Just two episodes ago, the greatest threat in Westeros was a merciless monarch with a dragon, which he used to destroy the army created to keep him at bay then blow a giant hole in the wall that was protecting the innocent population from him. Now, the greatest threat in Westeros is a merciless monarch with a dragon, which [[DistaffCounterpart she]] used to destroy the army created to keep her at bay then blow a giant hole in the wall that was protecting the innocent population from her.


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Yet "The Bells" presents it as if this was the custom all along. Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper . As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender." Yet "The Bells" presents it as if this was the custom all along. Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device.personal signal. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper .paper, and which Balon Greyjoy had done to King Robert at the end of the Rebellion when he laid siege on Pyke and breached the castle. As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender before." Yet "The Bells" presents it as if this was the custom all along. Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper . As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells to mean surrender before.surrender." Yet "The Bells" presents it as if this was the custom all along. Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper . As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]


** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that Likewise, Davos [[SeenItAll born and raised in the city's Flea Bottom slum and a siege veteran who had provided relief to Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion]], says in the same episode, "I've never known bells were tolled ''before'' to mean surrender before." Yet "The Bells" presents it as if this was the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, custom all along. Initially, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative.device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom. [[labelnote:From the books]]The established conventions in the books and the series lore are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. The only established convention for surrender in the books and overall lore is "bending the knee", i.e. a defeated lord bends to the commander on the opposite side as a sign of defeat, which Jaime Lannister insists on to resisting Riverlords when he lays siege to their castles in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' and ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' either in person or as a formality on paper . As per the established rules, the legitimate gesture of surrender is Cersei bending the knee to Daenerys and nothing less than that would have sufficed[[/labelnote]]


** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaseling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had been sidelined in both this season and the last.

to:

** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaseling weaselling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had been sidelined in both this season and the last.


** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaseling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had become sidelined in both this season and the last.

to:

** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaseling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had become been sidelined in both this season and the last.


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is just an army of expendable {{mooks}} during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the books. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
**
The Golden Company is just an army of expendable {{mooks}} during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the books. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.defense.
** Varys. Having spent the past seven seasons effortlessly weaseling out of everything that came his way, it made little sense that he'd be captured and executed so easily, or that his end should be so abrupt and inconsequential. Conleth Hill himself [[https://www.looper.com/152758/varys-actor-frustrated-by-being-sidelined-in-got/ was not pleased with this]], feeling that his character had become sidelined in both this season and the last.


* UnfortunateImplications: As Dany goes fully villainous, many have taken issue with the intent of trying to replace Dany with Jon as ruler, feeling it’s a rather blatant example of “we need a sensible man to save us from this hysterical woman leader”.

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* UnfortunateImplications: As Dany goes fully villainous, many have taken issue with the intent of trying to replace Dany with Jon as ruler, feeling it’s a rather blatant example of “we need a sensible man to save us from this hysterical woman leader”.

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** Jokes comparing Dany’s decision to attack despite the bells to someone ignoring an incoming call they didn’t want to answer abounded immediately.


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*** Reportedly, Euron was meant to just die but the actor kept ruining the takes purposely until allowed to give an impromptu death speech.

Added DiffLines:

*** Conversely, while the fight itself is rather lackluster, many fans hated Euron and were glad to see him die if only since now they won’t have to see him on screen anymore.

Added DiffLines:

* AntiClimaxBoss: After two seasons of hyping up Cersei’s forces as dangerously formidable against Dany’s army, nearly the entire Lannister defense— the Iron Fleet, the Lannister regulars, the Golden Company, the scorpion batteries, the Kingsguard— are all hilariously incapable of stopping Drogon or the Unsullied in completely massacring them. Meanwhile, the individual heads of Team Cersei— Qyburn, Captain Strickland, Euron, Jaime, and Cersei herself— all die pretty effortlessly. Only Gregor Clegane manages to be a threat to anyone and the only enemy he fights is his brother Sandor.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived [[UngratefulBastard ingratitude]], [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in the most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived [[UngratefulBastard ingratitude]], [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]


** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberyn; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.

to:

** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberyn; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past. On the other hand, maybe the whole point of the anticlimactic fight was to show how pointless living for revenge is, especially since Sandor had just warned Arya not to end up like him?


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the attack on Dresden which was also an attack by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[UngratefulBastard ingratitude]], [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population. The production team actually modeled the destruction on the attack on Dresden which was also an attack bombings of Germany by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]


** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].

to:

** There were fans who felt little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the people of the city have been shown to cheer and accept. [[labelnote:From the books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/labelnote]].


%%** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObviousAesop I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]][[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows' misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them to be spared because "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northern contingent, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.

to:

%%** Many ** There were fans who felt this way about little sympathy for the inhabitants of King's Landing, owing to the fact behaviors of residents in past seasons including their approval of Ned's execution, the riots against Joffrey's reign in which Sansa was nearly raped, the crowd's participation in Cersei's walk of shame when they pelted rotten produce at her, and cheering for Euron Greyjoy when he lead Yara through the city on a collar. For these viewers, it makes Dany's slaughter exceptional in degree but not different in kind from the stuff that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment have been shown to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObviousAesop I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff cheer and Weiss admitting in ''Inside accept. [[labelnote:From the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. books]] The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]][[ZeroPercentApprovalRating books [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows' misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them to be spared because "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northern contingent, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki. have[[/labelnote]].


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]] The production team actually modeled the destruction on the attack on Dresden which was also an attack by the RAF to instigate on the German population a taste of the indiscriminate attacks the Luftwaffe had committed in London and other parts of Europe[[/note]]


** Qyburn's [[SurprisinglySuddenDeath abrupt]] and [[UndignifiedDeath ignominious]] death, wherein the MadScientist was flung down a staircase by Gregor Clegane, quickly became memetic for its [[BlackComedy unexpected humor]], with comparisons being made to [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjy5YQ5xPc a certain notorious Vine]] and several jokes likening The Mountain to the writers and Qyburn to Jaime's, Dany's, or Tyrion's character development.

to:

** Qyburn's [[SurprisinglySuddenDeath abrupt]] and [[UndignifiedDeath ignominious]] death, wherein the MadScientist was flung down a staircase by Gregor Clegane, quickly became memetic for its [[BlackComedy unexpected humor]], with comparisons being made to [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjy5YQ5xPc a certain notorious Vine]] and several jokes likening The Mountain to the writers and Qyburn to Jaime's, Dany's, Dany's or Tyrion's character development.



** "Lena Headey was paid $1 million an episode this season to stand at a window drinking a glass of wine" - in reference to how little Cersei did this season (and she spent the majority of the episode in that very position).

to:

** "Lena Headey "Creator/LenaHeadey was paid $1 million an episode this season to stand at a window drinking a glass of wine" - in reference to how little Cersei did this season (and she spent the majority of the episode in that very position).


%%Do NOT add Broken Base and Internet Backdraft entries until six months after the release of the episode.

to:

%%Do NOT add Broken Base and Internet Backdraft entries until six months after the release of the episode.


** "Lena Headey was paid $1 million an episode this season to stand at a window drinking a glass of wine" - in reference to how little Cersei did this season (and she spent the majority of the episode in that very position).



** There's an unintentionally amusing moment where before the big showdown between the Clegane brothers, Cersei shuffles off down the stairs like she's the third wheel in a lovers' spat.



* RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued. The fact that Cersei and Varys are UnintentionallyUnsympathetic (as seen below) helps.


** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it's immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle.

to:

** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder the Lannister's and commit their allies' forces inflict countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, Starks and the rest of the North, it's immensely satisfying to see the Northmen get some payback and utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] curbstomp]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle.


%%Do NOT add Broken Base entries until six months after the release of the episode.

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%%
%%Do NOT add Broken Base and Internet Backdraft entries until six months after the release of the episode.episode.
%%
%%



* InternetBackdraft:
** It began almost ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct:
*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, [[DontShootTheMessage the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired]]. This is an entirely different issue from [[RootingForTheEmpire merely cheering team Dany]].
*** One element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that [[WomanScorned a man refusing to have sex with her]] was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
*** Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark, while serving "less tyrannical" kings Aegon V and Robert, got sacked over less than this.
*** The show seems to try to portray the execution of Varys for treason without trial as a tyrannical act. And yet, Jon Snow beheading Janos Slynt for disobedience is viewed as one mature step of the characters. Contrast this with Theon killing Ser Rodrik Cassel or Robb Stark killing Lord Karstark, which the show makes to visually parallel each other.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, Jon's own flaws and history of bad decisions, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall. He can't even control his own troops during the sack!
** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk, thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past seven seasons.
** Many didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering all the horrible things she did. It didn't help that the audience didn't even get a chance to see her dyie on-screen due to GoryDiscretionShot.
** The fight between Euron and Jaime is hated for coming out of nowhere and adding nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Euron's claim that he kills Jaime is also hilariously empty because it's the collapsing Red Keep that kills him. Many viewers feel that giving Cleganebowl more screentime would have been better than wasting it on this fight.
** At the time of writing, the 'Inside The Episode' featurette for this episode from the show's official [=YouTube=] channel has notably more Dislikes than Likes.


** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObviousAesop I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]][[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows' misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them to be spared because "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northern contingent, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.

to:

** %%** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObviousAesop I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]][[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows' misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them to be spared because "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northern contingent, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.

Added DiffLines:

** Several of the ChromaKey shots on the staircase of the Red Keep noticeably stand out a far bit more than they should.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent contingent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, its it's hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]



** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization recognition of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.



** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it’s immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle.
** Seeing Jaime get beaten by Euron and eventually die after his RedemptionRejection last episode.

to:

** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it’s it's immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle.
** Seeing Jaime get beaten by Euron and eventually die after his RedemptionRejection in the last episode.



** Given that Cersei is shown quietly sobbing and cradling in her lover's arms as she dies, the scene's intent is to signal a kind of VillainsDyingGrace on her behalf but many audiences felt she was unworthy of such a moment, since it came at the price of undoing Jaime's entire story arc and so betraying Brienne's faith in him, while also taunting Missandei with her slave past in the previous episode and gratuitously killing her for no reason, and for her petty scheming and murdering Margaery Tyrell.
** Varys' death scene also came of this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

to:

** Given that Cersei is shown quietly sobbing and cradling cradled in her lover's arms as she dies, the scene's intent is to signal a kind of VillainsDyingGrace on her behalf but many audiences felt she was unworthy of such a moment, since it came at the price of undoing Jaime's entire story arc and so betraying Brienne's faith in him, while also taunting Missandei with her slave past in the previous episode and gratuitously killing her for no reason, and for her petty scheming and murdering Margaery Tyrell.
the Tyrells.
** Varys' death scene also came of off this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this was ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.



** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObvious I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]]where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays, the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northmen host, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.

to:

** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment to really care that much for Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObvious "[[CaptainObviousAesop I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]]where books[[note]][[ZeroPercentApprovalRating where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays, plays,]] the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows Sparrows' misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them to be spared because "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northmen host, Northern contingent, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.


** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the city of the capital was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment cultivated to really care that much for Daenerys attacking the city other than, "[[CaptainObvious I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]]where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays, the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade. In other words, the smallfolk of the city repeatedly accept and tolerate any atrocity and act of corruption carried out, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens at its finest. Tyrion's plea for them "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northmen host, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.

to:

** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the city of the capital city was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment cultivated to really care that much for Daenerys attacking the city Daenerys' rampage other than, "[[CaptainObvious I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]]where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays, the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade. In other words, the smallfolk of the city repeatedly accept and tolerate any atrocity and act of corruption carried out, parade, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens at its finest.for whom Daenerys' rampage is exceptional only in degree but not in kind. Tyrion's plea for them "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northmen host, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.




Added DiffLines:

** Many fans felt this way about King's Landing, owing to the fact that the city of the capital was established as a WretchedHive right from Season 1 with little emotional investment cultivated to really care that much for Daenerys attacking the city other than, "[[CaptainObvious I guess attacking civilians is bad]]". Benioff and Weiss admitting in ''Inside the Episode'' that they inserted Arya in the later part of the scene to serve as an AudienceSurrogate precisely because they felt they needed a main character in that sequence to get the emotional impact, further confirms this sentiment among audiences. The show never did any serious WorldBuilding with the smallfolk of the city unlike the books[[note]]where the smallfolk openly hate the Lannisters, snubbed Tywin's funeral, and perform anti-Cersei puppet plays, the absence of which in the show makes Tyrion's claim that "they're not heroes" disrespectful to the actual literary counterparts who very much are heroic or at least signal their protest with whatever agency they have[[/note]]. Throughout the show, the smallfolk at various times jeered Ned during his execution, with one of them also attempting to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound, while also gleefully participating in the Sparrows misogynistic humiliation of Cersei, apathetically accepting the Destruction of the Sept while also cheering Euron Greyjoy in a victor's parade. In other words, the smallfolk of the city repeatedly accept and tolerate any atrocity and act of corruption carried out, being classic examples of ApatheticCitizens at its finest. Tyrion's plea for them "they're not heroes" is belied by the fact that a huge chunk of the invading army, including Jon's Northmen host, who jump at plundering them very much ''are'' heroes who defended the entire realm from the ZombieApocalypse, a fight in which King's Landing both sat out of and indeed benefited from the sacrifices made by the people of the North, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki.


*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. Given how Robert Baratheon tolerated the Sack of King's Landing, one can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.


*** On a similar note, Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark, while serving "less tyrannical" kings Aegon V and Robert, got sacked over less than this.

to:

*** On a similar note, Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark, while serving "less tyrannical" kings Aegon V and Robert, got sacked over less than this.



*** While Varys has a point that Snow's claim is superior, he's personally seen how feeble a leader Snow is, especially in comparison to Dany. While it'd be ludicrous to discount Snow's popularity, that didn't exactly save Renly from Stannis' vastly superior military ability. Varys would have been better off encouraging Snow and Dany to marry, and then killing her, than in trying to back Snow before he was in any position to lead.



*** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
** [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Qyburn's death]] could be considered this by some due to how sudden and unexpected it is with Gregor simply tossing him down aside and being treated to a very quick shot of his bloodied face to show the viewers he is really dead without no ceremony whatsoever.
*** Dany's descent into madness makes sense for many reasons, but the accelerated timing of the past few episodes makes it seem rather sudden. Her eyes popping out of her head at Missandei's death, too, seems hilariously out of place.

to:

*** ** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
** [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Qyburn's death]] could be considered this by some due to how sudden and unexpected it is with Gregor simply tossing him down aside and being treated to a very quick shot of his bloodied face to show the viewers he is really dead without no ceremony whatsoever.
*** Dany's descent into madness makes sense for many reasons, but the accelerated timing of the past few episodes makes it seem rather sudden. Her eyes popping out of her head at Missandei's death, too, seems hilariously out of place.
in.


* FightSceneFailure: The fight between Jaime and Euron. The continuity of movement is all over the place, making it hard to follow anything, and when you can follow it you just see terrible edits that reveal how badly the fight if choreographed, with Jaime on the ground one second and on his feet less than a second later. The fight itself is a mundane tussle that in no way required all this editing.

to:

* FightSceneFailure: The fight between Jaime and Euron. The continuity of movement is all over the place, making it hard to follow anything, and when you can follow it you just see terrible edits that reveal just how badly the fight if is choreographed, with Jaime on the ground one second and on his feet less than a second later. The fight itself is a mundane tussle that in no way required all this editing.


** Jaime could count too. The episode highlights his TragicVillain trait of "not being able to let go of Cersei" for the final time, but considering he [[RedemptionRejection blatantly rejected]] a chance to start over with an unambiguously much better woman, it's hard to feel sorry that he died (or get beaten by Euron beforehand).

to:

** Jaime could count too. The episode highlights his TragicVillain trait of "not being able to let go of Cersei" for the final time, but considering he [[RedemptionRejection blatantly rejected]] a chance to start over with an unambiguously much better woman, it's hard to feel sorry that he died (or get got beaten up by Euron beforehand).


** Jaime could count too. The episode highlights his TragicVillain trait of "not being able to let go of Cersei" for the final time, but considering he [[RedemptionRejection blatantly rejected]] a chance to start over with an unambiguously much better woman, it's hard not to feel sorry that he died (or get beaten by Euron beforehand).

to:

** Jaime could count too. The episode highlights his TragicVillain trait of "not being able to let go of Cersei" for the final time, but considering he [[RedemptionRejection blatantly rejected]] a chance to start over with an unambiguously much better woman, it's hard not to feel sorry that he died (or get beaten by Euron beforehand).


** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
* [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Qyburn's death]] could be considered this by some due to how sudden and unexpected it is with Gregor simply tossing him down aside and being treated to a very quick shot of his bloodied face to show the viewers he is really dead without no ceremony whatsoever.
** Dany's descent into madness makes sense for many reasons, but the accelerated timing of the past few episodes makes it seem rather sudden. Her eyes popping out of her head at Missandei's death, too, seems hilariously out of place.

to:

** *** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.
* ** [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Qyburn's death]] could be considered this by some due to how sudden and unexpected it is with Gregor simply tossing him down aside and being treated to a very quick shot of his bloodied face to show the viewers he is really dead without no ceremony whatsoever.
** *** Dany's descent into madness makes sense for many reasons, but the accelerated timing of the past few episodes makes it seem rather sudden. Her eyes popping out of her head at Missandei's death, too, seems hilariously out of place.


** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the ones jeering Ned during his execution, who also attempted to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound. Likewise, for many who were upset and disgruntled that the Long Night and White Walker threat isn't the actual BigBad of the story, the fact that the city that sat out of it got retribution for their ruler trying to stab the alliance in the back is also immensely satisfying.

Added DiffLines:

* [[DroppedABridgeOnHim Qyburn's death]] could be considered this by some due to how sudden and unexpected it is with Gregor simply tossing him down aside and being treated to a very quick shot of his bloodied face to show the viewers he is really dead without no ceremony whatsoever.


** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the ones jeeing Ned during his execution.

to:

** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the ones jeeing jeering Ned during his execution.execution, who also attempted to rape Sansa during the riot before being killed by the Hound. Likewise, for many who were upset and disgruntled that the Long Night and White Walker threat isn't the actual BigBad of the story, the fact that the city that sat out of it got retribution for their ruler trying to stab the alliance in the back is also immensely satisfying.

Added DiffLines:

** Dany torching King's Landing being inserted with various songs with fire in the title (e.g [[Music/{{Nickelback}} "Burn it to the Ground"]], [[Wrestling/SethRollins "Burn it Down"]]).


Added DiffLines:



** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the one jeeing Ned during his execution.

to:

** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the one ones jeeing Ned during his execution.


** After eight seasons of [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Cersei]] [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.

to:

** After eight seasons of While it wasn't as brutal as everyone had hoped, seeing [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Cersei]] Cersei]], after eight seasons of [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has having to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.her is still satisfying to watch.



** Seeing Jaime get beaten by Euron and eventually die after his RedemptionRejection last episode.
** Seeing Dany burn King's Landing to the ground could be this considering many of those citizens were the one jeeing Ned during his execution.



** Many didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering all the horrible things she did.

to:

** Many didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering all the horrible things she did. It didn't help that the audience didn't even get a chance to see her dyie on-screen due to GoryDiscretionShot.


Added DiffLines:

** Jaime could count too. The episode highlights his TragicVillain trait of "not being able to let go of Cersei" for the final time, but considering he [[RedemptionRejection blatantly rejected]] a chance to start over with an unambiguously much better woman, it's hard not to feel sorry that he died (or get beaten by Euron beforehand).


*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, [[DontShootTheMessage the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired]].

to:

*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, [[DontShootTheMessage the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired]]. This is an entirely different issue from [[RootingForTheEmpire merely cheering team Dany]].

Added DiffLines:

* FightSceneFailure: The fight between Jaime and Euron. The continuity of movement is all over the place, making it hard to follow anything, and when you can follow it you just see terrible edits that reveal how badly the fight if choreographed, with Jaime on the ground one second and on his feet less than a second later. The fight itself is a mundane tussle that in no way required all this editing.

Added DiffLines:

** Dany's sudden SanitySlippage is actually because the production team [[MustHaveCaffeine took her Starbucks away.]]

Added DiffLines:

*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. Given how Robert Baratheon tolerated the Sack of King's Landing, one can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

Added DiffLines:

** Dany's descent into madness makes sense for many reasons, but the accelerated timing of the past few episodes makes it seem rather sudden. Her eyes popping out of her head at Missandei's death, too, seems hilariously out of place.

Added DiffLines:

*** While Varys has a point that Snow's claim is superior, he's personally seen how feeble a leader Snow is, especially in comparison to Dany. While it'd be ludicrous to discount Snow's popularity, that didn't exactly save Renly from Stannis' vastly superior military ability. Varys would have been better off encouraging Snow and Dany to marry, and then killing her, than in trying to back Snow before he was in any position to lead.

Added DiffLines:

** At the time of writing, the 'Inside The Episode' featurette for this episode from the show's official [=YouTube=] channel has notably more Dislikes than Likes.


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As per Tyrion, the sign for surrender is "ring the bells and open the gates", that deadline ended when Dany on Drogon destroyed the gates and opened the gates (which in any case was left unclear as to the order to ring them coming from the court or the panicked local cohort since Cersei in the preceding scene had ordered her soldiers to fight to the last man). As such Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As per Tyrion, the sign for surrender is "ring the bells and open the gates", that deadline ended when Dany on Drogon destroyed the gates and opened the gates (which in any case breach. When the bells finally rang it was left unclear as to the order to ring them coming from the court or the panicked local cohort since Cersei in the preceding scene had ordered her soldiers to fight to the last man).man. As such Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As per Tyrion, the sign for surrender is "ring the bells and open the gates", that deadline ended when Dany on Drogon destroyed the gates and opened the gates (which in any case was left unclear as to the order to ring them coming from the court or the panicked local cohort since Cersei in the preceding scene had ordered her soldiers to fight to the last man). As such Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:


*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. Given how Robert Baratheon tolerated the Sack of King's Landing, one can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the books. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is just a RedshirtArmy an army of expendable {{mooks}} during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the books. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world]] in most freezing and hellish conditions imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounged in sun drenched splendor the whole time, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]



** Real-world example. [[BabyNameTrendStarter "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show]]. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea. To quote [[https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:]]

to:

** Real-world example. [[BabyNameTrendStarter "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show]]. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea. To quote [[https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:]]



** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, burning slavers and enemies but freeing slaves and sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing, even of innocents.
*** It's hard to believe that this is the same woman who was willing to risk her life and those of her forces to save the North from the Night King. The woman who would have risked losing the Iron Throne to save all life in Westeros is now in a position to finish what the Night King started.

to:

** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, burning slavers and enemies but freeing slaves and sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing, even of innocents.
***
innocents. It's hard to believe that this is the same woman who was willing to risk her life and those of her forces to save the North from the Night King. The woman who would have risked losing the Iron Throne to save all life in Westeros is now in a position to finish what the Night King started.


*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

to:

*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One Given how Robert Baratheon tolerated the Sack of King's Landing, one can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.


* InternetBackdraft: '''''Hoh boy.'''''

to:

* InternetBackdraft: '''''Hoh boy.'''''InternetBackdraft:


*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired.

to:

*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, [[DontShootTheMessage the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired.desired]].


Added DiffLines:

*** The show seems to try to portray the execution of Varys for treason without trial as a tyrannical act. And yet, Jon Snow beheading Janos Slynt for disobedience is viewed as one mature step of the characters. Contrast this with Theon killing Ser Rodrik Cassel or Robb Stark killing Lord Karstark, which the show makes to visually parallel each other.


* AssPull:
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.


** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.

Added DiffLines:

* AssPull:
** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.
* AssPull:
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.
** Euron coincidentally washes up on the same shore Jaime is on miles away from where he jumped ship for no reason other than to have a fight that removes him from the plot.


** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note]]

to:

** "We did it, Grey Worm! Worm/Jon! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''.''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants'', usually with Dany's face pasted over Spongebob's and Jon's/Grey Worm's over Patrick's. [[/note]]


* AssPull:
** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.
** Euron coincidentally washes up on the same shore Jaime is on miles away from where he jumped ship for no reason other than to have a fight that removes him from the plot.
** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for the living, and claiming three episodes ago that he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.
** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. The problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.
** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista were shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable, and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldy. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning the ballista are seemingly caught unawares and no one except Euron is able to fire at her.

Added DiffLines:

* AssPull:
** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.
** Euron coincidentally washes up on the same shore Jaime is on miles away from where he jumped ship for no reason other than to have a fight that removes him from the plot.
** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for the living, and claiming three episodes ago that he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.
** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. The problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.
** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista were shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable, and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldy. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning the ballista are seemingly caught unawares and no one except Euron is able to fire at her.


* AssPull:
** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.
** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself, Tyrion repeatedly mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.
** Euron coincidentally washes up on the same shore Jaime is on miles away from where he jumped ship for no reason other than to have a fight that removes him from the plot.
** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for the living, and claiming three episodes ago that he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.
** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. The problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.
** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista were shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable, and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldy. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning the ballista are seemingly caught unawares and no one except Euron is able to fire at her.


*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they ddidn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired.

to:

*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they ddidn't didn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired.


* InternetBackdraft:

to:

* InternetBackdraft: '''''Hoh boy.'''''


** Fans joke that the writers noticed how overpowered the semi-auto super scorpions were last episode and nerfed them like game developers would in a patch.

to:

** Fans joke that the writers noticed how overpowered the semi-auto super scorpions were last episode and nerfed them like game developers would in a patch. They also joke that Drogon got a buff in both speed and firepower.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world in the freezing and most hellish conditions imaginable, while the goddamn capital lounge in sun drenched splendor, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. [[DudeWheresMyReward After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world world]] in the most freezing and most hellish conditions imaginable, imaginable while facing the literal Apocalypse, only to find out that the goddamn capital lounge lounged in sun drenched splendor, splendor the whole time, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population.[[/note]]


** Varys' death scene also came of this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.

to:

** Varys' death scene also came of this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving the Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, trying to bring an army of rapists and murderers to the Seven Kingdoms in hope that the war against them could help start a civil war to put his preferred ruler on the throne, then later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of self-defense, and this ''after'' Daenerys had given him a second chance.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world in the freezing and most hellish conditions imaginable, while the goddamn capital lounge in sun drenched splendor, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath. [[note]]Historically it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the City. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population[[/note]]

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world in the freezing and most hellish conditions imaginable, while the goddamn capital lounge in sun drenched splendor, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed out to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath. [[note]]Historically aftermath.[[note]]Historically, it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the City. city. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population[[/note]]population.[[/note]]

Added DiffLines:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The reason Dany and her army, as well as Jon Snow's Northern contigent participate wholeheartedly in the punitive campaign on King's Landing is that all of them have been radicalized by the Long Night. After putting your life, limb, family, and closest friends on the line to defend the world in the freezing and most hellish conditions imaginable, while the goddamn capital lounge in sun drenched splendor, its hard for soldiers to not get angry at the perceived ingratitude, [[GrassIsGreener unearned good living]], and absence of sacrifices for the sake of the realm. Jaime Lannister himself pointed to Cersei in Season 7 that the lack of any contribution by King's Landing for the cause of the North would be met with righteous vengeance in the aftermath. [[note]]Historically it isn't far from the behavior of the Red Army in Berlin after the conquest of the City. After years of horrible war crimes and massacres by the Nazis, the Red Army were appalled by the better living conditions of the city and apathy and loyalty by the citizens to Hitler's regime, and as such a good chunk of them went postal on the city's population[[/note]]


** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode, seemingly confirmed by the rout by the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal's death and Missandei's capture and execution, didn't really mean in terms of her assessment of the fatigue of the surviving Northern troops and Dany's own army. Considering that Dany and Drogon singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before and indeed if anything, Dany's punitive campaign on King's Landing is overwhelmingly popular with the Northern Army, considering how Jon Snow is shown as a distinct minority in trying to rein in the sack.

to:

** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode, seemingly confirmed by the rout by the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal's death and Missandei's capture and execution, didn't really mean anything in terms of her assessment of the fatigue of the surviving Northern troops and Dany's own army. Considering that Dany and Drogon singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before and indeed if anything, Dany's punitive campaign on King's Landing is overwhelmingly popular with the Northern Army, considering how Jon Snow is shown as a distinct minority in trying to rein in the sack.


** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before. Of course, Sansa may just have been pulling that out to have an excuse not to commit Northern forces to Dany's campaign right away, if at all.

to:

** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode episode, seemingly confirmed by the rout by the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal's death and Missandei's capture and execution, didn't really mean much in terms of her assessment of the end, considering fatigue of the surviving Northern troops and Dany's own army. Considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, own, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before. Of course, Sansa may just have been pulling that out to have an excuse not to commit Northern forces to before and indeed if anything, Dany's punitive campaign right away, if at all.on King's Landing is overwhelmingly popular with the Northern Army, considering how Jon Snow is shown as a distinct minority in trying to rein in the sack.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Daenerys's armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Daenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.

to:

* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
** Given that Cersei is shown quietly sobbing and cradling in her lover's arms as she dies, the scene's intent is
to be this signal a kind of VillainsDyingGrace on her behalf but many audiences felt she was unworthy of such a moment, since it came at the price of undoing Jaime's entire story arc and so betraying Brienne's faith in him, while also taunting Missandei with her slave past in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at previous episode and gratuitously killing her army, mercenaries, subjects, for no reason, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Daenerys's armies for her petty scheming and dragonfire to murdering Margaery Tyrell.
** Varys' death scene also came of this way, where its presented as a FaceDeathWithDignity moment. Many felt that his death was entirely justified given his blatant hypocrisy (loyally serving
the point she starts crying over it, and Mad King, undermining Robert in favor of Viserys, then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering later trying to undermine Dany's regime while serving Tywin) and repeated incompetence (failure to prevent his "little birds" from being turned by Qyburn, failure to unearth any intelligence about how she the missing goldmines), constant betrayal and an attempt to make Jon Snow do what he absolutely doesn't want herself or her unborn child (play the "game of thrones"). Likewise, right before his death, he was planning to die]] as rubble comes down on top once again try and poison Daenerys, making his execution a justified act of them both. The fact self-defense, and this ''after'' Daenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.had given him a second chance.


* RootingForTheEmpire:
** A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire:
**
RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.


*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** On a similar note, Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.

to:

*** Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** On a similar note, Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark Stark, while serving "less tyrannical" kings Aegon V and Robert, got sacked over less than this.


** This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Daenerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.

to:

** This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Daenerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much as in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her Dany after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.


** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before. Of course, Sansa may just have been pulling that out to have an excuse not to commit Northern forces to Dany's campaign.

to:

** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before. Of course, Sansa may just have been pulling that out to have an excuse not to commit Northern forces to Dany's campaign.campaign right away, if at all.


** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.

to:

** Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before. Of course, Sansa may just have been pulling that out to have an excuse not to commit Northern forces to Dany's campaign.


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys Daenerys, from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way to signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself itself, Tyrion repeatedly mention mentions the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted shout for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.



** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a tyrannical conqueror and mass murderer after all.

to:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' Daenerys's fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a tyrannical conqueror and mass murderer after all.



*** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** In a similar note, Daenerys' "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.

to:

*** Daenerys' Daenerys's destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** In On a similar note, Daenerys' Daenerys's "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.



* SpecialEffectFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys' POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.

to:

* SpecialEffectFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys' Daenerys's POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Daenerys' armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Daenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.

to:

* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Daenerys' Daenerys's armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Daenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.


** Robert ''the feckless drunkard king'' Baratheon was the first to predict that Daenerys would be a nightmare to Westeros while traveling with Ned Stark. And just like his uncle Ned, Jon Snow failed to see the danger until it was too late.

to:

** Robert ''the feckless drunkard king'' Baratheon was the first to predict that Daenerys would be a nightmare to Westeros while traveling with Ned Stark. And just like his uncle Ned, Jon Snow failed to see the danger until it was too late. Things would have turned out better for ''everyone'' if Robert had continued sending assassins rather than being talked out of it by Ned. By extension, Barristan saving her from the one attempt that actually did get launched indirectly makes him responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians (and that's just in Westeros).


** Although it is something that has been suggested and foreshadowed multiple times, the sheer suddenness with which Dany goes from using calculated and perfectly justified violence against Cersei's forces to simply burning down ''all'' of King's Landing, women and children included, makes it come off as this to a great many viewers.



* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy, and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to genocidal villainy, and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.



*** It's hard to believe that this is the same woman who was willing to risk her life and those of her forces to save the North from the Night King. The woman who would have risked losing the Iron Throne to save all life in Westeros is now in a position to finish what the Night King started.



** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a brutal conqueror after all.

to:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a brutal tyrannical conqueror and mass murderer after all.all.
** Daenerys acknowledged in her first meeting with Jon that her father was an evil man, and that children shouldn't be blamed for the crimes of their parents. Now she has ''exceeded'' her father in villainy. The Mad King wanted to blow up King's Landing with wildfire to prevent Robert Baratheon from seizing the throne from him. As monstrous as it was, it had its own twisted logic as a last-ditch defensive move. Daenerys doesn't even have that excuse; she chooses to burn an already ''surrendered'' King's Landing down to the ground out of nothing more than a glorified temper tantrum. Add the fact that the Mad King had been visibly unhinged for years before he came up with the wildfire scheme while Dany has been over the edge for barely a week, and Dany comes out looking even worse than before.


** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.

to:

** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable. Compounding this is the fact that he [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall stares directly into the camera]] as he gives his last words, making it seem like he's bragging directly to the audience about getting one last named character kill in.


*** Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that [[WomanScorned a man refusing to have sex with her]] was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.

to:

*** Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they ddidn't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show handled this transition left a lot to be desired.
*** One
element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that [[WomanScorned a man refusing to have sex with her]] was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.



*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show depicts this transition leaves a lot to be desired.


** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note]

to:

** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note][[/note]]


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device.initiative. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.


** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista was shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldly. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning ballista are seeming caught unawares and no one but Euron is able to fire at her.

to:

** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista was were shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable maneuverable, and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldly.unwieldy. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning the ballista are seeming seemingly caught unawares and no one but except Euron is able to fire at her.



* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with hundreds of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with hundreds thousands of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy villainy, and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.



*** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

to:

*** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger lesser houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland Riverlands when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.



* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Danenerys' armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Danenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.

to:

* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Danenerys' Daenerys' armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Danenerys Daenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.


** It's given renewed vigor to Team White Walkers, who now figure that stopping the Night King was near pointless (everything’s going to hell anyways) and that Westeros is such a worthless CrapsackWorld at this point that the White Walkers destroying everything would’ve been a MercyKill. Which really says a lot about how [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy people are feeling after this episode]].


* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many hundreds of innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

Added DiffLines:

* UnintentionallySympathetic: Quite a few people found ''Cersei'' to be this in the episode, as she gets a first-hand look at her army, mercenaries, subjects, and city all wiped out by a vengeful Danenerys' armies and dragonfire to the point she starts crying over it, and then [[AlasPoorVillain dies in the arms of her brother blubbering about how she doesn't want herself or her unborn child to die]] as rubble comes down on top of them both. The fact Danenerys simultaneously proves herself EvilerThanThou in the slaughter of the surrendering soldiers and the civilians just pushes this further.


** Arya's survival of the sacking on King's Landing came off as this to some. Particularly her surviving getting trampled on by fleeing citizens.
* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Jamie's fight with Euron at the bottom of the Red Keep. Not only did it tonally clash with the rest of the episode due to Euron's ChewingTheScenery, but it ultimately served literal narrative purpose as the multiple stab wounds Euron inflicts on Jamie are not what ultimately kill him.


** The overall response to the episode from the fanbase was so negative that the [[https://youtu.be/5W8j6wOvxuo Inside the Episode]] featurette garnered around 58,000 dislikes compared to around 36,000 likes as of this writing.


** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk, thereby [[CharacterDerailment destroying]] his CharacterDevelopment over the past seven seasons.

to:

** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk, thereby [[CharacterDerailment destroying]] destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past seven seasons.


Added DiffLines:

** The overall response to the episode from the fanbase was so negative that the [[https://youtu.be/5W8j6wOvxuo Inside the Episode]] featurette garnered around 58,000 dislikes compared to around 36,000 likes as of this writing.


* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Jamie's fight with Euron at the bottom of the Red Keep. Not only did it tonally clash with the rest of the episode due to Euron's ChewingTheScenery, but it ultimately served literal narrative purpose as the multiple stab wounds Euron inflicts on Jamie is not what kills him.

to:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Jamie's fight with Euron at the bottom of the Red Keep. Not only did it tonally clash with the rest of the episode due to Euron's ChewingTheScenery, but it ultimately served literal narrative purpose as the multiple stab wounds Euron inflicts on Jamie is are not what kills ultimately kill him.



* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out that the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.



*** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being completely right that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed the how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.

to:

*** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never takes makes him out to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
*** In a similar note, Daenerys Daenerys' "paranoia" is presented as a sign of growing insanity despite her being [[ProperlyParanoid completely right right]] that people ''are'' plotting to betray her (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed the how word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know knows to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.



** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk, thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.
** Many didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did.

to:

** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk, thereby destroying [[CharacterDerailment destroying]] his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.
seven seasons.
** Many didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering all the horrible things she did.



** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note]]

to:

** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note]] [[/note]



** Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the surrendering soldiers and civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]]. Her slaughter of the smallfolk is even worse than killing the soldiers because they did nothing against her other than not rolling out the red carpet for her the moment she arrived in Westeros.

to:

** Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the surrendering soldiers and civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into becoming [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]]. Her slaughter of the smallfolk is even worse than killing the soldiers because they did nothing against her other than not rolling out the red carpet for her the moment she arrived in Westeros.



* SpecialEffectsFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys' POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the book. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.

to:

* SpecialEffectsFailure: SpecialEffectFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys' POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the book.books. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.





** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.

to:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for Dany to turn out to be a brutal tyrant conqueror after all.


*** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.

to:

*** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed presented as a sign of growing insanity despite the fact her being completely right that people did plot ''are'' plotting to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, (Varys is trying to poison her), and that she correctly guessed the how words word got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.


** It's very satisfying to see the Mountain finally be killed by the Hound in a brutal one-on-one duel after all the evil he's done in the series.
** After eight seasons of Cersei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.

to:

** It's very satisfying to see the Mountain [[TheDreaded The Mountain]] finally be killed by the Hound [[TheAtoner The Hound]] in a [[ItsPersonal brutal one-on-one duel duel]] after [[CompleteMonster all the evil he's done done]] in the series.
** After eight seasons of Cersei [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Cersei]] [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.

Added DiffLines:

* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Jamie's fight with Euron at the bottom of the Red Keep. Not only did it tonally clash with the rest of the episode due to Euron's ChewingTheScenery, but it ultimately served literal narrative purpose as the multiple stab wounds Euron inflicts on Jamie is not what kills him.

Added DiffLines:

** Arya's survival of the sacking on King's Landing came off as this to some. Particularly her surviving getting trampled on by fleeing citizens.


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bells ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.


** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.

to:

** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.



%%


** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander(and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when Jon intervenes to prevent the soldier from having his way with her.

to:

** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander(and commander (and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when Jon intervenes to prevent the soldier from having his way with her.


*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show depicts that transition is quite misogynistic.

to:

*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show depicts that this transition is quite misogynistic.leaves a lot to be desired.


*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Severals]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ state]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming BigBad, the way that the show depicts that transition leaves much to be desired.

to:

*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Severals]] Multiple]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ state]] have]] [[https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-s8-e5/ stated]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming the BigBad, the way that the show depicts that transition leaves much to be desired. is quite misogynistic.


** It began almost ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing to have sex with her was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.

to:

** It began almost ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. conduct:
***
Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that [[WomanScorned a man refusing to have sex with her her]] was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** *** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet the show never takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and yet he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.
** *** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.
*** [[https://www.indiewire.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen-reactions-sexist-1202140198/ Severals]] [[https://www.vox.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/13/18617796/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-targaryen-eyes reviewers]] [[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-game-of-thrones-episode-5-review-a-viciously-stupid-cheap-and/ state]] that while they don't necessarily have issues with Dany becoming BigBad, the way that the show depicts that transition leaves much to be desired.

Added DiffLines:

** In the previous episode, the Iron Fleet's ballista was shown to be incredibly powerful, maneuverable and quick to reload. Here, they're shown to be slow and unwieldly. Likewise, in the previous episode, the Iron Fleet also was able to unleash a devastating barrage capable of killing a dragon and destroy Daenerys's fleet from a distance. Here, as King's Landing is preparing to be attacked by Drogon, the ships and city defenders manning ballista are seeming caught unawares and no one but Euron is able to fire at her.


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show failed to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]][[note]]Another factor that the show failed fails to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks smallfolk of incoming danger ([[https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.



** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, Jon's own flaws and history of bad decisions, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.

to:

** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, Jon's own flaws and history of bad decisions, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall. He can't even control his own troops during the sack!



* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]].of]][[note]]Another factor that the show failed to examine more closely is that the Northern troops must have been exhausted after the battle in Winterfell, having to leave their devastated home and marching across the continent during winter. Good luck keeping their anger release in check![[/note]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:


** Qyburn's [[SurprisinglySuddenDeath abrupt]] and [[UndignifiedDeath ignominious]] death, wherein the MadScientist was flung down a staircase by Gregor Clegane, quickly became memetic for its [[BlackComedy unexpected humor]], with comparisons being made to [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjy5YQ5xPc a certain notorious Vine]] and several jokes likening The Mountain to the writers and Qyburn to [[CharacterDerailment Jaime's, Dany's, or Tyrion's character development]].

to:

** Qyburn's [[SurprisinglySuddenDeath abrupt]] and [[UndignifiedDeath ignominious]] death, wherein the MadScientist was flung down a staircase by Gregor Clegane, quickly became memetic for its [[BlackComedy unexpected humor]], with comparisons being made to [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjy5YQ5xPc a certain notorious Vine]] and several jokes likening The Mountain to the writers and Qyburn to [[CharacterDerailment Jaime's, Dany's, or Tyrion's character development]].development.


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells ([[https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.



** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned.

to:

** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned. After all, Daenerys still keeps Tyrion as Hand of the Queen despite him repeatedly failing her ''during a war''. Brynden Rivers and Ned Stark got sacked over less than this.


** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

to:

** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe the show never takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician.politician in-universe. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.Walkers.
** In a similar note, Daenerys "paranoia" is showed as a sign of insanity despite the fact that people did plot to betray her or disobey her out of personal convictions, and that she correctly guessed the how words got from Jon, through Sansa and Tyrion, to Varys. Again, Tywin back in Season 2 executed his own soldiers to investigate the assassination attempt on his life (which the audience know to be false), yet his sanity is never questioned.


** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea. To quote [[https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:]]

to:

** Real-world example. [[BabyNameTrendStarter "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show.show]]. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea. To quote [[https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:]]

Added DiffLines:

* SpecialEffectsFailure: Similar to the scenes from the first episode of the season, a few of the scenes from Daenerys' POV of Drogon flying over the city don't do a good job of making the landscape beneath the dragon look like anything more than a flat greenscreen image or a model at best.


** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Jorah lived and died for her, only for the woman he loved to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.

to:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Daenerys would be a good, just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Jorah Barristan Selmy, Jorah, and Missandei all lived and died for her because they believed in her, only for the woman he loved Dany to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.all.


** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that , Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

to:

** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when his son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that , that, Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.


** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see VeluesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler.

to:

** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see VeluesDissonance ValuesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler. Before that , Aegon the Conqueror also burned Harrenhal to the ground due to Harren Hoare's defiance, and he is widely regarded as a successful conqueror and a savvy politician. Moreover, anything Daenerys does today could have been done back in the previous season, before the Battle of Ice and Fire. One can only wonder if her subordinates would dare to question her acts that much had they still needed her to fight the White Walkers.

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** Daenerys' destruction of a city whose leader threw good faith out of the window long ago (see VeluesDissonance below) is depicted as the reason why she is unfit to rule. Tywin Lannister eradicated two younger houses at a younger age than she is now, and commenced the Sack of King's Landing ''without warning'', laid waste to the Riverland when son got kidnapped, yet nobody in-universe takes him to be a bad ruler.


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal to surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal to of surrender. To quote Varys [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.


** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal to surrender. To quote Varys [[GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to prepare defense (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

to:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal to surrender. To quote Varys [[GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater [[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to prepare defense man the walls (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

Added DiffLines:

** There is no in-universe historical recognization of ringing the city bells as a way signal to surrender. To quote Varys [[GameOfThronesS2E9Blackwater in the eve of Battle of Blackwater Bay]]: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror. A dead king, a city under siege". The precedent instances are that bells were tolled ''before'' the battle to prepare defense (Battle of Blackwater) or to warn smallfolks of incoming danger ([[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Battle_of_the_Bells Battle of the Bells]]), ''not'' to surrender. Within the episode itself Tyrion repeatedly mention the bells to Jaime and Jon, making the signal seem more like Tyrion's own device. However, at the Lannister troops' surrender, people shouted for the queen to toll the bells as if this were a well-known custom.

Added DiffLines:

** Jokes about the populace of King's Landing being diagnosed with mesothelioma and being entitled to financial compensation.

Added DiffLines:

** Qyburn's [[SurprisinglySuddenDeath abrupt]] and [[UndignifiedDeath ignominious]] death, wherein the MadScientist was flung down a staircase by Gregor Clegane, quickly became memetic for its [[BlackComedy unexpected humor]], with comparisons being made to [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjy5YQ5xPc a certain notorious Vine]] and several jokes likening The Mountain to the writers and Qyburn to [[CharacterDerailment Jaime's, Dany's, or Tyrion's character development]].


** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion, and Sansa and despite Missandei's and Rhaegal's deaths, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the King's Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because she suddenly ''now'' is going crazy. Keep in mind that while yes, Targaryens going mad has been established in the series, Dany going mad only started becoming a thing '''one episode ago''', so despite it having some basis in the series, it comes too fast and too late to feel like the writers had this planned out.



** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. Like with Dany's example above, the problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.
** Apparently there's a massive contingent of Dothraki ready and raring to take King's Landing, despite everything in the third episode pointing to the entire force being wiped out by Wights during the Battle of Winterfell.

to:

** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. Like with Dany's example above, the The problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.
** Apparently there's a massive contingent of Dothraki ready and raring to take King's Landing, despite everything in the third episode pointing to the entire force being wiped out by Wights during the Battle of Winterfell.
warranted.



** However, it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. The result is many admitted to feeling genuinely sorry for her because she has a HeelRealization and dies begging to be spared.
*** Played straight in the eyes of some. After eight seasons of Cersei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.
** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it’s immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle. [[DeconstructedTrope Deconstructed]] hard shortly after when the Lannister army surrenders the Stark soldiers not only start slaughtering the surrendering soldiers, but actively participate in murdering and raping innocent civilians and [[NotSoDifferent conducting themselves exactly the same as the Lannister armies have in previous battles.]]

to:

** However, it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. The result is many admitted to feeling genuinely sorry for her because she has a HeelRealization and dies begging to be spared.
*** Played straight in the eyes of some.
After eight seasons of Cersei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.
** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it’s immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle. [[DeconstructedTrope Deconstructed]] hard shortly after when the Lannister army surrenders the Stark soldiers not only start slaughtering the surrendering soldiers, but actively participate in murdering and raping innocent civilians and [[NotSoDifferent conducting themselves exactly the same as the Lannister armies have in previous battles.]]



--> Every year since ''Game of Thrones'' debuted in 2011, we’ve heard about how many ''Game of Thrones'' baby names there are, and every year, I think, “Boy, shouldn’t you wait for the show to end?” This is why, people. This is why.

to:

--> ---> Every year since ''Game of Thrones'' debuted in 2011, we’ve heard about how many ''Game of Thrones'' baby names there are, and every year, I think, “Boy, shouldn’t you wait for the show to end?” This is why, people. This is why.



** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did.

to:

** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did.



* MoralEventHorizon: Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the surrendering soldiers and civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]]. Her slaughter of the smallfolk is even worse than killing the soldiers because they did nothing against her other than not rolling out the red carpet for her the moment she arrived in Westeros.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: MoralEventHorizon:
**
Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the surrendering soldiers and civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]]. Her slaughter of the smallfolk is even worse than killing the soldiers because they did nothing against her other than not rolling out the red carpet for her the moment she arrived in Westeros.



** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.
** Euron stares directly into the camera as he gives his last words and is seemingly entirely unconcerned with dying or even trying to leave despite Jaime having no quarrel with him. It feels like he's [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall talking directly to the audience]], after having picked a fight with Jaime ''just'' because he thought "well the show's ending, may as well kill one more named character before I leave; c'mere!".
** The fight between Euron and Jaime itself features a ridiculous amount of cuts and climaxes in Euron throwing Jaime to the ground, only for the ''next cut'' to show Jaime on his feet.
** Dany's sudden turn to villainy when the bells ring. Up until that point, she had basically won and was doing nothing but sitting on Drogon, waiting for the bells to ring, but once they do, she suddenly makes a face like she's getting triggered, then randomly goes off killing people. Instead of a depicting Dany snapping from her season-long ordeal, it comes off like she's so offended by the sound of the bells ringing that she has to take it out on the commoners.

to:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime features a ridiculous amount of cuts and climaxes in Euron throwing Jaime to the ground, only for the ''next cut'' to show Jaime on his feet.
** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.
** Euron stares directly into the camera as he gives his last words and is seemingly entirely unconcerned with dying or even trying to leave despite Jaime having no quarrel with him. It feels like he's [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall talking directly to the audience]], after having picked a fight with Jaime ''just'' because he thought "well the show's ending, may as well kill one more named character before I leave; c'mere!".
laughable.
** The fight between Euron %%
%% No complaining
and Jaime itself features a ridiculous amount of cuts and climaxes in Euron throwing Jaime to the ground, only for the ''next cut'' to show Jaime on his feet.
** Dany's sudden turn to villainy when the bells ring. Up until that point, she had basically won and was doing nothing but sitting on Drogon, waiting for the bells to ring, but once they do, she suddenly makes a face like she's getting triggered, then randomly goes off killing people. Instead of a depicting Dany snapping from her season-long ordeal, it comes off like she's so offended by the sound of the bells ringing that she has to take it out on the commoners.
no nitpicking, please.
%%
%%



** On the other hand, it’s also given renewed vigor to Team White Walkers, who now figure that stopping the Night King was near pointless (everything’s going to hell anyways) and that Westeros is such a worthless CrapsackWorld at this point that the White Walkers destroying everything would’ve been a MercyKill. Which really says a lot about how [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy people are feeling after this episode]].
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is pretty much just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the book. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.

to:

** On the other hand, it’s also It's given renewed vigor to Team White Walkers, who now figure that stopping the Night King was near pointless (everything’s going to hell anyways) and that Westeros is such a worthless CrapsackWorld at this point that the White Walkers destroying everything would’ve been a MercyKill. Which really says a lot about how [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy people are feeling after this episode]].
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is pretty much just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the book. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
**
Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.

Added DiffLines:

** Apparently there's a massive contingent of Dothraki ready and raring to take King's Landing, despite everything in the third episode pointing to the entire force being wiped out by Wights during the Battle of Winterfell.


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fights Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fights fight Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.



-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this was not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’....Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked...Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."

to:

-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this was not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’....warfare’ ... Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked...revoked Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."


** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea.

to:

** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed an entire civilian population because she felt like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea. To quote [[https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:]]
--> Every year since ''Game of Thrones'' debuted in 2011, we’ve heard about how many ''Game of Thrones'' baby names there are, and every year, I think, “Boy, shouldn’t you wait for the show to end?” This is why, people. This is why.

Added DiffLines:

** Robert ''the feckless drunkard king'' Baratheon was the first to predict that Daenerys would be a nightmare to Westeros while traveling with Ned Stark. And just like his uncle Ned, Jon Snow failed to see the danger until it was too late.


** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at it's peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed and entire civilian population because she felt like, that name may not seem like such a good idea.

to:

** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at it's its peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing nothing, and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed and an entire civilian population because she felt like, like it, that name may not seem like such a good idea.



** Back in Season 2, Dany threatens the Spice King and the Thirteen of Qarth by declaring that she would take back what was stolen, destroy those who wronged her, lay waste on armies and burn cities to the ground. Now, everything she had said before has come true.

to:

** Back in Season 2, Dany threatens the Spice King and the Thirteen of Qarth by declaring that she would take back what was stolen, destroy those who wronged her, lay waste on armies armies, and burn cities to the ground. Now, everything she had said before has come true.


** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because she suddenly ''now'' is going crazy. Keep in mind that while yes Targaryens going mad has been established in the series, Dany going mad only started becoming a thing '''one episode ago''', so despite it having some basis in the series, it comes too fast and too late to feel like the writers had this planned out.

to:

** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion Tyrion, and Sansa and despite Missandae's Missandei's and Rhaegal's death, deaths, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings King's Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because she suddenly ''now'' is going crazy. Keep in mind that while yes yes, Targaryens going mad has been established in the series, Dany going mad only started becoming a thing '''one episode ago''', so despite it having some basis in the series, it comes too fast and too late to feel like the writers had this planned out.



** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for the living and claiming three episodes ago he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.

to:

** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for the living living, and claiming three episodes ago that he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.



** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. The result is many admitted to feeling genuinely sorry for her because she has a HeelRealization and dies begging to be spared.
*** Played straight in the eyes of some. After eight seasons of Cercei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.

to:

** However However, it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. The result is many admitted to feeling genuinely sorry for her because she has a HeelRealization and dies begging to be spared.
*** Played straight in the eyes of some. After eight seasons of Cercei Cersei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.



** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Danaerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Danaerys would be a good, just and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Jorah lived and died for her, only for the woman he loved to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.

to:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Danaerys' Daenerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Danaerys Daenerys would be a good, just just, and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Jorah lived and died for her, only for the woman he loved to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.



** This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.

to:

** This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys Daenerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.



** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberin; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.

to:

** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberin; Oberyn; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.


** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

to:

** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.because she suddenly ''now'' is going crazy. Keep in mind that while yes Targaryens going mad has been established in the series, Dany going mad only started becoming a thing '''one episode ago''', so despite it having some basis in the series, it comes too fast and too late to feel like the writers had this planned out.



** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival.

to:

** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival. Like with Dany's example above, the problem is how sudden it is and not very well setup it needed to be to feel warranted.



** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction.

to:

** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. The result is many admitted to feeling genuinely sorry for her because she has a HeelRealization and dies begging to be spared.


* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

to:

* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.


* RightAllAlong: Jaime's remarks that the Golden Company wouldn't make a difference to Cersei's war effort proves accurate when they're unceremoniously annihilated by Daenerys.


*** Although it is stated that Daenerys ''was'' on the verge of being one, what with burning people (evil slave traders they might have been) alive, and declaring to kill people unless she's calmed down enough. Hell, before she even aided Jon, she was planning to destroy the Red Keep with Cersei in it. During this instances, there was either Selmy, Missandei, Jorah or even Jon Snow to calm her down. Now, there are none to calm her down, and Cersei truly woke the Dragon.



* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

to:

* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.


* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Daenerys have been doing so all along.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: RootingForTheEmpire:
**
This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Daenerys Danaerys have been doing so all along.along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.

Added DiffLines:

** After several seasons of seeing Lannister soldiers unceremoniously murder and commit countless atrocities against the Stark soldiers, it’s immensely satisfying to see the Northmen utterly [[CurbStompBattle curbstomping]] the Lannister goons in the first phase of the battle. [[DeconstructedTrope Deconstructed]] hard shortly after when the Lannister army surrenders the Stark soldiers not only start slaughtering the surrendering soldiers, but actively participate in murdering and raping innocent civilians and [[NotSoDifferent conducting themselves exactly the same as the Lannister armies have in previous battles.]]


----
* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

to:

----
* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.up.
----


** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show.

to:

** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. This was at it's peak while Daenerys was seen as an example of female empowerment, as she was fighting abusive men in her life, creating a power base out of nothing and destroying institutionalized slavery and freeing people in an entire region. Now that she literally carpet bombed and entire civilian population because she felt like, that name may not seem like such a good idea.

Added DiffLines:

** On the other hand, it’s also given renewed vigor to Team White Walkers, who now figure that stopping the Night King was near pointless (everything’s going to hell anyways) and that Westeros is such a worthless CrapsackWorld at this point that the White Walkers destroying everything would’ve been a MercyKill. Which really says a lot about how [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy people are feeling after this episode]].


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying that she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.


*** Although it is stated that Daenerys ''was'' on the verge of being one, what with burning people (evil slave traders they might have been) alive, and declaring to kill people unless she's calmed down enough. Hell, before she even aided Jon, she was planning to destroy the Red Keep with Cersei in it. During this instances, there was either Selmy, Missandei, Jorah or even Jon Snow to calm her down. Now, there are none to calm her down, and Cersei truly woke the Dragon.



* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.
** Arguably more forgivable, since Stannis had done a number of dubious things before burning his daughter on Melisandre's orders, but Daenerys's descent into madness and outright villainy comes all too soon in this episode.

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys Daenerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.
** Arguably more forgivable, since Stannis had done a number of dubious things before burning his daughter on Melisandre's orders, but Daenerys's descent into madness and outright villainy comes all too soon in this episode.


* RightAllAlong: Jaime's remarks that the Golden Company wouldn't make a difference to Cersei's war effort proves accurate when they're unceremoniously annihilated by Daenerys.



* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating Kings Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

to:

* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating Kings King's Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

Added DiffLines:

** On a grander scale, absolutely ''every'' time throughout the series any character has had any doubts about Danaerys' fitness to rule, or worried that she may take after her father, they were ''absolutely right,'' and everyone who believed Danaerys would be a good, just and kind ruler was ''wrong.'' Jorah lived and died for her, only for the woman he loved to turn out to be a brutal tyrant after all.


** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his misstress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival.

to:

** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his misstress mistress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival.



** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander(and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when he intervenes in order to have his way with her.

to:

** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander(and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when he Jon intervenes in order to have prevent the soldier from having his way with her.



** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.

to:

** Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed one-handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous acts is laughable.



** Dany's sudden turn to villainy when the bells ring. Up until that point, she had basically won and was doing nothing but sitting on Drogon, waiting for the bells to ring, but once they do, she suddenly makes a face like she's getting triggered, then randomly goes off killing people. Instead of a depicting Dany snapping from her season long ordeal, it comes off like she's so offended by the sound of the bells ringing that she has to take it out on the commoners.

to:

** Dany's sudden turn to villainy when the bells ring. Up until that point, she had basically won and was doing nothing but sitting on Drogon, waiting for the bells to ring, but once they do, she suddenly makes a face like she's getting triggered, then randomly goes off killing people. Instead of a depicting Dany snapping from her season long season-long ordeal, it comes off like she's so offended by the sound of the bells ringing that she has to take it out on the commoners.



** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose commeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberin; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.

to:

** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose commeuppance comeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberin; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the supposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.



* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses,being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative reciprocating her feelings]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating Kings Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.

to:

* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses,being losses, being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative reciprocating her feelings]], being able to return to the intimacy they once shared due to incest]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating Kings Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.


** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

to:

** Dany's SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate facilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. All she has to do is fly to the Red Keep and confront Cersei with Drogon. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.



** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing, even of innocents.

to:

** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, burning slavers and enemies but freeing slaves and sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing, even of innocents.


Added DiffLines:

** The Northern soldiers cross it too when they ignore Jon's commands to hold themselves back. Special props to the soldier who has abducted a woman right in front of Jon Snow, his rightful commander(and King) and attempts to ''kill'' Jon when he intervenes in order to have his way with her.


Added DiffLines:

** Arguably more forgivable, since Stannis had done a number of dubious things before burning his daughter on Melisandre's orders, but Daenerys's descent into madness and outright villainy comes all too soon in this episode.


----

to:

--------
* WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds: Daenerys finally snaps, after (in her mind) too many personal losses,being the NoRespectGuy of her alliance, betrayals by various members of her court, and her current LoveInterest not [[IncestIsRelative reciprocating her feelings]], all of this culminates in her completely and utterly decimating Kings Landing, and all in it, soldier or civilian, made worse by the fact that she starts her rampage only a few seconds after the bells tolled signaling the city surrendered, and you could hear that for a few minutes before that people were crying and shouting for the bells to be run as they gave up.


* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out even the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out even the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.


* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]].

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]]. It even turns out even the Northern soldiers who we were supposed to be rooting for the whole time were apparently just lacking the opportunity to go on a massive rape and murder spree.

Added DiffLines:

*** Played straight in the eyes of some. After eight seasons of Cercei [[KarmaHoudini always somehow managing to get away with everything]], she ''[[KarmaHoudiniWarranty finally]]'' has to stand and watch as all her plans come to nothing and all her hopes are dashed, until she's [[VillainousBreakdown reduced to sobbing like a child]] while her empire ''literally'' falls down around her.

Added DiffLines:

** Dany's sudden turn to villainy when the bells ring. Up until that point, she had basically won and was doing nothing but sitting on Drogon, waiting for the bells to ring, but once they do, she suddenly makes a face like she's getting triggered, then randomly goes off killing people. Instead of a depicting Dany snapping from her season long ordeal, it comes off like she's so offended by the sound of the bells ringing that she has to take it out on the commoners.


** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itslef, is completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There're no stakes in it, all the participants are dead(wo)men walking

to:

** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itslef, is itself, turned out completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There're There were no stakes in it, and its outcome didn't affect anything in the slightest. Whoever came out victorious was doomed anyway; Gregor was, for all intents and purposes, just another wight, whose commeuppance for any past atrocities had already been delivered years ago by Oberin; and Sandor has resigned to die, turning the participants are dead(wo)men walkingsupposed UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny into a glorified MurderSuicide for the man who'd failed to get over his past.

Added DiffLines:

** After paying absolutely no attention to Sandor during their last meeting, Gregor is now suddenly so eager to fight him, he even abandons his misstress and murders his creator, to whom he'd shown nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of his revival.


Added DiffLines:

** Cleganebowl, while satisfying in itslef, is completely extraneous narratively and thematically. There're no stakes in it, all the participants are dead(wo)men walking


* JustHereForGodzilla: Some audiences who were disappointed with the later episodes of the series stuck around long enough to see Cleganebowl happen.

to:

* JustHereForGodzilla: JustHereForGodzilla:
**
Some audiences who were disappointed with the later episodes of the series stuck around long enough to see Cleganebowl happen.happen.
** As Music/RaminDjawadi keeps outdoing himself, several fans have declared to only watch the final episodes for the fantastic score.


** It began almost ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing her sex was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, his own flaws, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.

to:

** It began almost ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing to have sex with her sex was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, his Jon's own flaws, flaws and history of bad decisions, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.


* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable.

to:

* {{Narm}}: {{Narm}}:
**
Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, killing his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, nearly becoming King of Westeros, capturing the Princess of Dorne, destroying the Lannister fleet, having sex with a queen, destroying two fleets [[EasyLogistics on opposite sides of the continent in days]], sacking his way through Essos, or any of his other numerous atrocities acts is laughable.laughable.
** Euron stares directly into the camera as he gives his last words and is seemingly entirely unconcerned with dying or even trying to leave despite Jaime having no quarrel with him. It feels like he's [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall talking directly to the audience]], after having picked a fight with Jaime ''just'' because he thought "well the show's ending, may as well kill one more named character before I leave; c'mere!".


* MoralEventHorizon: Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]].

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the surrendering soldiers and civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]]. Her slaughter of the smallfolk is even worse than killing the soldiers because they did nothing against her other than not rolling out the red carpet for her the moment she arrived in Westeros.
** Grey Worm crosses this when instead of keeping his soldiers in check, he follows his master's example and backstabs soldiers who had already surrendered. By doing so, he sends the invading army into a crazed frenzy that rapes, burns, and kills its way across King's Landing. He's indirectly responsible for who knows how many people suffering and dying because he couldn't hold his temper in check.

Added DiffLines:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime itself features a ridiculous amount of cuts and climaxes in Euron throwing Jaime to the ground, only for the ''next cut'' to show Jaime on his feet.


** Dany's outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

to:

** Dany's outburst SanitySlippage comes pretty much [[ShockingSwerve out of nowhere.nowhere]]. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.



** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for living, and claiming three episodes ago he's not the man he once was are forgotten so Jaime can saying he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.
* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.
* CatharsisFactor: It's very satisfying to see the Mountain finally be killed by the Hound in a brutal one-on-one duel after all the evil he's done in the series.
** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction.

to:

** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for living, the living and claiming three episodes ago he's not the man he once was are forgotten so that Jaime can saying say he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.
* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying that she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.
* CatharsisFactor: CatharsisFactor:
**
It's very satisfying to see the Mountain finally be killed by the Hound in a brutal one-on-one duel after all the evil he's done in the series.
** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction. satisfaction.
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Everything that happens after the first twenty or thirty minutes is so relentlessly dark and violent even by the standards of this show, with many innocent people getting needlessly slaughtered, Dany's abrupt turn to villainy and quite a few sympathetic characters being killed off or getting traumatized by the horrors they witness, that it can become rather difficult [[EightDeadlyWords to care what happens to anyone]].



** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, doing a decent amount of burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing.
** Back in Season 2, Dany threatens the Spice King and the Thirteen of Qarth by declaring that she would take back what was stolen, destroy those who wronged her, lay waste on armies and burn cities to the ground. Now, everything she had said before has slowly becoming true.

to:

** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, doing a decent amount of burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing.
sparing, even of innocents.
** Back in Season 2, Dany threatens the Spice King and the Thirteen of Qarth by declaring that she would take back what was stolen, destroy those who wronged her, lay waste on armies and burn cities to the ground. Now, everything she had said before has slowly becoming come true.



** It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing her sex was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship...that Varys himself was a part of. Furthermore, his own flaws, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.
** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.
** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did.

to:

** It began almost IMMEDIATELY ''immediately'' after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing her sex was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship... that Varys himself ''himself'' was a part of. Furthermore, his own flaws, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.
** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk smallfolk, thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.
** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did.

Added DiffLines:

* CatharsisFactor: It's very satisfying to see the Mountain finally be killed by the Hound in a brutal one-on-one duel after all the evil he's done in the series.
** However it's averted for Cersei. With her being the most hated character now on the show now and with as many possible ways as she possibly could have gone out this episode, a few even lampshaded by the Hound, dying by having some rocks fall on her in her lover's arms while she cries robs the audience of any real satisfaction.

Added DiffLines:

** Back in Season 2, Dany threatens the Spice King and the Thirteen of Qarth by declaring that she would take back what was stolen, destroy those who wronged her, lay waste on armies and burn cities to the ground. Now, everything she had said before has slowly becoming true.


Added DiffLines:

* MoralEventHorizon: Daenerys's burning King's Landing with all the civilians in it. Despite wanting to "break the wheel" and prove that [[IAmNotMyFather she is not like her father]], she ends up succumbing into [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis the very thing that she's trying to prevent]].


** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did, and many especially felt it humanized a white woman who killed a prominent black character for petty reasons in the previous episode, while also insulting her for her past as a slave.

to:

** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did, and many especially felt it humanized a white woman who killed a prominent black character for petty reasons in the previous episode, while also insulting her for her past as a slave.did.


** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship...that Varys himself was a part of. Furthermore, his many failures and flaws that might diminish his fitness for rule, in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.

to:

** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship...that Varys himself was a part of. Furthermore, his many failures and flaws own flaws, ones that might diminish his fitness for rule, rule even in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.


** Dany's outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if dissappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

to:

** Dany's outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if dissappointed disappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.



** It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct.

to:

** It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct. Among ''many'' other sore spots about this, one element that caused particular dismay was the implication that the last straw for Dany was Jon's decision to not resume their romantic and sexual relationship, suggesting that a man refusing her sex was the last thing needed to push her over the edge.
** Jon's lack of desire for the throne is again presented uncritically by Varys as a reason why he'd be a good ruler, which again ignores the lessons and consequences of Robert Baratheon's apathetic kingship...that Varys himself was a part of. Furthermore, his many failures and flaws that might diminish his fitness for rule, in comparison to Dany's, continue to be glossed over to focus more on Dany's VillainBall.


* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable. The fact that Jaime doesn’t even die from the wound but from falling rubble much later only makes Euron’s boasting all the more pathetic.

to:

** "We did it, Grey Worm! We saved King's Landing!"[[note]] Dany's long-running proclamations that she'd save the poor and powerless of Westeros as she saved the slaves and downtrodden in Essos, only to murder thousands after a moment's rage, brought comparisons to [[https://twitter.com/Save_Dr_A/status/1127807833964081153 this]] scene in ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants''. [[/note]]
* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable. The fact that Jaime doesn’t even die from the wound but from falling rubble much later only makes Euron’s boasting all the more pathetic.


* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable.

to:

* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable. The fact that Jaime doesn’t even die from the wound but from falling rubble much later only makes Euron’s boasting all the more pathetic.


* AssPull: Dany's outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if dissappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

to:

* AssPull: Dany's AssPull:
**Dany's
outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if dissappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.because.
** Euron coincidentally washes up on the same shore Jaime is on miles away from where he jumped ship for no reason other than to have a fight that removes him from the plot.
** Jaime's entire characterization is thrown out the window just so he can die with Cersei. Plot points such as killing King Aerys to save the lives of all the smallfolk Aerys was planning to kill out of spite, abandoning his sister to fight for living, and claiming three episodes ago he's not the man he once was are forgotten so Jaime can saying he never cared about the smallfolk, only Cersei and himself.


Added DiffLines:

* {{Narm}}: Euron's last words that he killed Jaime. The fact that tying in a fight with a one handed cripple is what he's most proud of as he dies instead of killing a dragon, his own brother, becoming King of the Iron Islands, or any of his other numerous atrocities is laughable.

Added DiffLines:

* AssPull: Dany's outburst comes pretty much out of nowhere. Despite all the prior frustration she had with Jon, Varys, Tyrion and Sansa and despite Missandae's and Rhaegal's death, she still acts astonishingly composed, assaulting the Kings Landing's defences with surgical precision, doing exactly enough damage to fascilitate an easy entry for her army, but not to harm the civilians. The resistance is negligible, her losses are minimal to none. The city instantly surrenders. And then, as if dissappointed that she didn't get an excuse to start a massacre, she starts one anyway just because.

Added DiffLines:

* JustHereForGodzilla: Some audiences who were disappointed with the later episodes of the series stuck around long enough to see Cleganebowl happen.


* CharacterDerailment: Jaime claims to Tyrion that he doesn't care at all about the smallfolk which goes against his defining characterization moment when he sacrificed his honor to kill Aerys and save 500,000 innocents from dying, and asking Brienne if she could do the same if she was in his shoes.


* CharacterDerailment: Jaime claims to Tyrion that he doesn't care at all about the smallfolk which goes against his defining characterization moment when he sacrificed his honor to kill Aerys and save 500,000 innocents from dying, and asking Brienne if she could do the same if she was in his shoes.



** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.

to:

** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed as well and claiming he doesn't care for the smallfolk thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.


* AntiClimax: After all the buildup about Cersei's army having several advantages, such as several dozen dragon-killing ballistae, the well-armed and well-rested Golden Company, and Euron's mighty fleet, Drogon manages to sweep through all of them in a CurbstompBattle, and it turns out Cersei doesn't stand any chance at all. Combined with Cersei's subsequent VillainousBreakdown and UndignifiedDeath, it left some fans unsatisfied.

Added DiffLines:

** The idea that the entire KL massacre could have been avoided if Jon would just take one for the team and bang his aunt to calm her down.


** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Cleganebowl more focus would have been better than this fight.

to:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes is hated for coming out of nowhere and adds adding nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Euron's claim that he kills Jaime is also hilariously empty because it's the collapsing Red Keep that kills him. Many viewers feel that giving Cleganebowl more focus screentime would have been better than wasting it on this fight.


* AntiClimax: After all that buildup about Cersei's army having much more advantage than Dany's because she has several dragon-killing ballistaes, the well-armed, well-rested Golden Company, and Euron's mighty fleet, Drogon manages to sweep through all that in a CurbstompBattle, and it turns out Cersei doesn't stand any chance at all, not to mention Cersei's subsequent VillainousBreakdown and UndignifiedDeath, all leaves some fans unsatisfied.

to:

* AntiClimax: After all that the buildup about Cersei's army having much more advantage than Dany's because she has several advantages, such as several dozen dragon-killing ballistaes, ballistae, the well-armed, well-armed and well-rested Golden Company, and Euron's mighty fleet, Drogon manages to sweep through all that of them in a CurbstompBattle, and it turns out Cersei doesn't stand any chance at all, not to mention all. Combined with Cersei's subsequent VillainousBreakdown and UndignifiedDeath, all leaves it left some fans unsatisfied.


** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Clegancebowl more focus would have been better than this fight.

to:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Clegancebowl Cleganebowl more focus would have been better than this fight.


* HilariousInHindsight: This episode confirms Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives as fans suspected last episode because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her,"]] despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne. In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: This episode confirms confirmed Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives as fans suspected he was hiding last episode because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her,"]] despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne. In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]


Added DiffLines:

* MemeticMutation:
** Fans joke that the writers noticed how overpowered the semi-auto super scorpions were last episode and nerfed them like game developers would in a patch.


** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. After this episode, those parents are likely regretting their choices.

to:

** Real-world example. "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. After this episode, those parents are likely regretting their choices.

Added DiffLines:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sansa's concern that Dany's combined forces are still recovering from their battle with the Night King and that they should have some time to rest in the previous episode didn't really mean much in the end, considering that Dany and Drogon can singlehandedly annihilate Cersei's forces on her own anyway, with only her troops backing her up to pick off surviving enemies. Said troops also don't seem to show signs of any fatigue and fights Cersei's forces with the same aggressiveness as they've shown before.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying she is [[NeverMyFault accountable for Varys' death]] is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying she is [[NeverMyFault accountable for Varys' death]] death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in early episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and saying she is [[NeverMyFault accountable for Varys' death death]] is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in early earlier episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.



** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, doing a decent amount of burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning...and very little sparing.

to:

** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, doing a decent amount of burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning... and very little sparing.



** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.

to:

** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei Cersei, instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.



** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Clegancebowl more focus would have been than this fight.

to:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Clegancebowl more focus would have been better than this fight.

Added DiffLines:

** The fight between Euron and Jaime that comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the plot other than killing off Euron. Many viewers feel that giving Clegancebowl more focus would have been than this fight.


Added DiffLines:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: The Golden Company is pretty much just a RedshirtArmy during this episode, in spite of their importance to the Targaryen plotline in the book. The entire company is obliterated minutes into the siege and it's the Lannister soldiers who actually fight in the city's defense.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for betraying Jon's secret and saying she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in early episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for betraying Jon's secret her scheming and saying she is accountable for Varys' death is one for those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in early episodes was unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and holding her accountable for Varys' death, which even Jon agrees with, is one for many fans who felt that Sansa's behavior in early episode was coming across as rudeness and ingratitude being presented as correct and good for the sake of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Here the episode calls out and highlights the human cost of her actions.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming betraying Jon's secret and holding her saying she is accountable for Varys' death, which even Jon agrees with, death is one for many those fans who felt that Sansa's behavior toward Daenerys in early episode episodes was coming across as rudeness and ingratitude being presented as correct and good for the sake unnecessarily hostile. Consequently, Sansa's dislike of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Here the episode calls out and highlights the human cost of her actions. Daenerys manifests in telling Tyrion about Jon, who tells Varys, who plots against Daenerys, leading to Varys's death.

Added DiffLines:

* AntiClimax: After all that buildup about Cersei's army having much more advantage than Dany's because she has several dragon-killing ballistaes, the well-armed, well-rested Golden Company, and Euron's mighty fleet, Drogon manages to sweep through all that in a CurbstompBattle, and it turns out Cersei doesn't stand any chance at all, not to mention Cersei's subsequent VillainousBreakdown and UndignifiedDeath, all leaves some fans unsatisfied.

Added DiffLines:

** Jaime ''not'' killing Cersei instead opting to run away with her as King's Landing is being destroyed thereby destroying his CharacterDevelopment over the past eight years.


* HilariousInHindsight: Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives as fans suspected last episode despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her."]] In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: This episode confirms Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives as fans suspected last episode despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her."]] her,"]] despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne. In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]


%%Do NOT add Broken Base entries until six months after the release of the episode.



* BrokenBase: To say that the reaction to Jaime's ending was not terribly well-received would be an understatement. Many fans felt it flied in the face of the character development he had received over the last several seasons, especially given many felt he was going to be the one to kill Cersei as the culmination of his arc.


* HarsherInHindsight: Real-world example. "Danaerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. After this episode, those parents are likely regretting their choices.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
Real-world example. "Danaerys" "Daenerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. After this episode, those parents are likely regretting their choices.



* IKnewIt: Many fans also predicted Danaerys would go mad. They were correct.
** For better or worse, [[FanNickname Cleganebowl]] finally happened.

Added DiffLines:

* BrokenBase: To say that the reaction to Jaime's ending was not terribly well-received would be an understatement. Many fans felt it flied in the face of the character development he had received over the last several seasons, especially given many felt he was going to be the one to kill Cersei as the culmination of his arc.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Daenerys calling out Sansa for her scheming and holding her accountable for Varys' death, which even Jon agrees with, is one for many fans who felt that Sansa's behavior in early episode was coming across as rudeness and ingratitude being presented as correct and good for the sake of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Here the episode calls out and highlights the human cost of her actions.



* InternetBackdraft: It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct.
* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys have been doing so all along.

to:

* InternetBackdraft: InternetBackdraft:
**
It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct.
** Many also didn't like Cersei getting a beautiful death, i.e. dying in Jaime's arms, considering the horrible things she did, and many especially felt it humanized a white woman who killed a prominent black character for petty reasons in the previous episode, while also insulting her for her past as a slave.
* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys have been doing so all along. A lot of fans, much in the case of Stannis, continue to root for her after this episode. "Daenerys did nothing wrong" is often issued.



-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’....Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked...Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."

to:

-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this was not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’....Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked...Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Jaime goes back to Cersei without any ulterior motives as fans suspected last episode despite caring for and sleeping with Brienne because he [[https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko?t=4m59s "has an addiction to her."]] In other words, [[Recap/GameOfThronesS5E10MothersMercy Jaime wants a good girl, but he needs the bad pussy.]]

Added DiffLines:

** For better or worse, [[FanNickname Cleganebowl]] finally happened.

Added DiffLines:

* HarsherInHindsight: Real-world example. "Danaerys" and "Khaleesi" became somewhat popular girls' names as a result of the show. After this episode, those parents are likely regretting their choices.
** Dany's conduct as she swept across Essos, doing a decent amount of burning slavers and enemies but sparing women and children, is this as well now that it's come to fruition. She does plenty of burning...and very little sparing.
* IKnewIt: Many fans also predicted Danaerys would go mad. They were correct.
* InternetBackdraft: It began almost IMMEDIATELY after the release of the episode due to Dany's conduct.
* RootingForTheEmpire: This episode establishes that those who have been cheering for Danaerys have been doing so all along.


* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline:

to:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline:deadline. As such Daenerys from a medieval perspective, is quite correct in her decisions, even if other characters are horrified by her actions:

Added DiffLines:

* ValuesDissonance: What Daenerys talks about in this episode, about the people of King's Landing not turning against Cersei and as such legitimate targets is accurate to the psychology of siege warfare in the medieval era. It was widely agreed that if a defending city had rejected all offers of surrender, then quarter would be denied, and the whole city would be [[MakeAnExampleOfThem made examples of]]. The only countervailing case is the issue of the bells of the city ringing for surrender but which in any case was made after the walls were breached and the city infiltrated, well past the deadline:
-->"While medieval law made a distinction between combatants and civilian in combat this not the case in siege of a city that refused to surrender. Against a city that refused to surrender it was acceptable that the norms of law that regulated discipline on the battlefield would be suspended, the local population shared the same fate as the defending troops. Responsibility was shifted to the defender for the ‘harm befalling non-combatants as a result of a siege – starvation, bombardment, sack—was understood as incidental effects of warfare’....Sieges in the medieval period began typically when a herald went forward and demanded that a town or city surrendered. If this was accepted it was expected that the inhabitants would be protected. If the population refused ‘this was regarded by the besieging lord as treason’ and all rights were revoked...Quarter was denied to all who had failed to surrender under the proper conditions."
-->-- Leonard F. Taylor, There Shall Be Survivors: The Prohibition of the Denial of Quarter in International Law

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