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* AuthorsSavingThrow: C20 removed the elements that made the game unplayable, ironed out most of the bugs and generally made the game much or idealistic and fun to play.
to:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: C20 removed the elements that made the game unplayable, ironed out most of the bugs and generally made the game much or more idealistic and fun to play.
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* CanonDiscontinuity: The original idea of Dauntain, as changelings who grew to hate the idea of dreams, was more or less taken out back and shot by C20 to avoid DarknessInducedAudienceApathy
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: In the original run of ''Autumn People,'' it was assumed that changelings would die or go Dauntain at around thirty. This... did not sit well with the fanbase, and C20 more or less [[CanonDiscontinuity excised that book]] from existence because it made Changeling: the Lost actually come off as the more idealistic game. (The age categories are now tied into personal character development, and one can remain any stage more or less indefinitely.)
* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while here you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: In the original run of ''Autumn People,'' it was assumed that changelings would die or go Dauntain at around thirty. This... did not sit well with the fanbase, and C20 more or less [[CanonDiscontinuity excised that book]] from existence because it made Changeling: the Lost actually come off as the more idealistic game. (The age categories are now tied into personal character development, and one can remain any stage more or less indefinitely.)
* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while here you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?
to:
* CanonDiscontinuity: The original idea of Dauntain, as changelings who grew to hate the idea of dreams, was more or less taken out back and shot by C20 to avoid DarknessInducedAudienceApathy
DarknessInducedAudienceApathy.
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: In the original run of ''Autumn People,'' it was assumed that changelings would die or go Dauntain at around thirty. This... did not sit well with the fanbase, and C20 more or less [[CanonDiscontinuity excised that book]] from existence because it made Changeling: the Lost actually come off as the more idealistic game. (The age categories are now tied into personal character development, and one can remain any stage more or less indefinitely.)
) Really, C20 did a lot of this overall.
* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while here you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game. \n C20 changed a lot of that, though.
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted inpsychology?psychology?
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: In the original run of ''Autumn People,'' it was assumed that changelings would die or go Dauntain at around thirty. This... did not sit well with the fanbase, and C20 more or less [[CanonDiscontinuity excised that book]] from existence because it made Changeling: the Lost actually come off as the more idealistic game. (The age categories are now tied into personal character development, and one can remain any stage more or less indefinitely.
* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while here you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in
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* {{Squick}}: The sluagh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children....
to:
* {{Squick}}: The sluagh Sluagh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children....
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*** Which would be fine if it weren't for the game being specifically about magical creatures doing magical things in the modern world. While this is hardly to the point of a full on ScrappyMechanic or GrapplingWithGrapplingRules, it is enough that even enthusiastic players find it...frustrating. Even the game's developers have said that they will address this in the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition.
to:
*** Which would be fine if it weren't for the game being specifically about magical creatures doing magical things in the modern world. While this is hardly to the point of a full on ScrappyMechanic or GrapplingWithGrapplingRules, it is enough that even enthusiastic players find it...frustrating. Even the game's developers have said that they will address this in the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition.Edition, and they did.
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: C20 removed the elements that made the game unplayable, ironed out most of the bugs and generally made the game much or idealistic and fun to play.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce. C20 ends up turning around and killing this theme dead because of just how bad it could get.
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Oddly enough given the game's LighterAndSofter reputation, the fact that your characters will almost certainly die or turn into a Dauntain before the age of thirty can have this effect.
to:
* CanonDiscontinuity: The original idea of Dauntain, as changelings who grew to hate the idea of dreams, was more or less taken out back and shot by C20 to avoid DarknessInducedAudienceApathy
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy:Oddly enough given In the game's LighterAndSofter reputation, the fact original run of ''Autumn People,'' it was assumed that your characters will almost certainly changelings would die or turn into a go Dauntain before at around thirty. This... did not sit well with the fanbase, and C20 more or less [[CanonDiscontinuity excised that book]] from existence because it made Changeling: the Lost actually come off as the more idealistic game. (The age of thirty categories are now tied into personal character development, and one can have this effect.remain any stage more or less indefinitely.)
* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy:
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, the 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, the 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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As a sugar wiki item, moved to its own subpage
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* FunnyMoments: A fair number, with this being the most whimsical game in its line, though the humour tends to be tinged with sadness. For example, one book has a Boggan express her admiration for the Sidhe, who have what amounts to an allergy to the real world and still returned to it because they were sure that the commoners needed them (which is a ''very'' charitable, but not entirely untrue, take on the Resurgence). She then notes that, "we just ''can't'' tell them that we were doing just fine without them! It'll break their little hearts!"
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Cleaning up misuse according to this TRS thread
. Fandom Berserk Button is for objective factual errors that annoy fans.
. Fandom Berserk Button is for objective factual errors that annoy fans.Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: And boy howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
to:
* BrokenBase: And boy howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* FunnyMoments: A fair number, with this being the most whimsical game in its line, though the humour tends to be tinged with sadness. For example, one book has a Boggan express her admiration for the Sidhe, who have what amounts to an allergy to the real world and still returned to it because they were sure that the commoners needed them (which is a ''very'' charitable, but not entirely untrue, take on the Resurgence). She then notes that, "we just ''can't'' tell them that we were doing just fine without them! It'll break their little hearts!"
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umm...'ehe' isn't a word and even if it was, it's definitely the wrong word.
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, ehe 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, ehe the 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The ehe 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of its self itself but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in and of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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None
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* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
to:
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of balloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] themes]], [[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]], and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid Redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid Redcap redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
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* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.
to:
* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.
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* {{Squick}}: The Sluagh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children....
to:
* {{Squick}}: The Sluagh sluagh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children....
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* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of baloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of baloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap Redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch ofbaloons.balloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
* BrokenBase: AndBoy Howdy boy howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
* ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of
* BrokenBase: And
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* {{Squick}}: The Slugh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
* ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say... extremely expensive and rather underwhelming.
* ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say... extremely expensive and rather underwhelming.
to:
* {{Squick}}: The Slugh Sluagh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
children....
* ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say... extremely expensive and rather underwhelming.
* ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say...
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* ScrappyMechanic: The first edition initially had cantrips be randomly created from a deck of 150 specialty cards, which were sold in randomized collectible boosters.
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Added namespaces.
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* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
to:
* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness.TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other forces suppressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.
to:
** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness.TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other forces suppressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.
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* Anvilicious: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
to:
* Anvilicious: {{Anvilicious}}: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
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* Squick: The Slugh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
to:
* Squick: {{Squick}}: The Slugh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
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* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
to:
* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} [[{{FandomBerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
to:
* BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred it to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* Anvilicious: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
to:
* Anvilicious: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being an [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
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* Anvilicious: GrowingUpSucks and the real world that humans live in being [[{{CrapsackWorld}}an awful soul crushing place]] is, at times dropped onto you with all the subtlety of a rabid redcap dunking you in a bucket of Tabasco sauce.
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*DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Oddly enough given the game's LighterAndSofter reputation, the fact that your characters will almost certainly die or turn into a Dauntain before the age of thirty can have this effect.
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* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.
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* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.this.
* Squick: The Slugh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
*ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say... extremely expensive and rather underwhelming.
**Specifically the fact that the character's magic is VERY difficult in universe and the character either has to spend all of their [[{{Mana}} Glamour]] or spend several rounds casting even a single first level spell. Sometimes both. Couple this with the fact that [[{{TheMagicGoesAway}} Glamour is extremely hard to acquire]] unless you want to go full on evil or risk insanity. Harvesting it safely can take months.
***Which would be fine if it weren't for the game being specifically about magical creatures doing magical things in the modern world. While this is hardly to the point of a full on ScrappyMechanic or GrapplingWithGrapplingRules, it is enough that even enthusiastic players find it...frustrating. Even the game's developers have said that they will address this in the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition.
* Squick: The Slugh kith literally thrives on this and players are often encouraged to be as creepy and disgusting as possible in order to gain Glamour. Redcaps have an earned reputation of being [[{{ImAHumanitarian}} brutish cannibals]] and then you get into the idea that changeling lovers are often reincarnated and emerge from chrysalis in the bodies of children...
*ThatOneRule: More like a set of rules, the game's magic system is notorious even among its supporters for being shall we say... extremely expensive and rather underwhelming.
**Specifically the fact that the character's magic is VERY difficult in universe and the character either has to spend all of their [[{{Mana}} Glamour]] or spend several rounds casting even a single first level spell. Sometimes both. Couple this with the fact that [[{{TheMagicGoesAway}} Glamour is extremely hard to acquire]] unless you want to go full on evil or risk insanity. Harvesting it safely can take months.
***Which would be fine if it weren't for the game being specifically about magical creatures doing magical things in the modern world. While this is hardly to the point of a full on ScrappyMechanic or GrapplingWithGrapplingRules, it is enough that even enthusiastic players find it...frustrating. Even the game's developers have said that they will address this in the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition.
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*ArtStyleDissonance: Though definitely LighterAndSofter in many places than many other ''TabletopGames/OldWorldOfDarkness'' game lines, The 2nd Edition corebook has a rather infamous example among the fandom depicting a cartoonish bear with a bunch of baloons. Not bad in of its self but hardly in tune with the [[{{UrbanFantasy}} themes]] ,[[{{CrapsaccharineWorld}} mood]] and [[{{DarkFantasy}} tone]] the text of the game wishes to portray.
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* BaseBreaker: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* BaseBreaker: BrokenBase: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* BaseBreaker: The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* BaseBreaker: And Boy Howdy it is! The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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*BaseBreaker: The gameline as a whole can be considered this among fans of The OldWorldOfDarkness. While it has a rather rabid fanbase, its detractors often [[{{Flanderization}} referred to as being extremely childish]] to the point of being unplayable. Just don't say that to the fan's supporters, [[{{BerserkButton}} IT WILL NOT END WELL.]]
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* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
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* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while here you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
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** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other force supressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.
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** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other force supressing forces suppressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.hard.
* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.
* MisaimedFandom: One of the oddest examples of this happening. There is an actual society called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin "Otherkin"]] who believe that they were mythological creatures in previous lives. They thought that so much of the game was spot on that they concluded the makers of the game were in fact Changelings themselves. One of the developers of the game went out of their way to deny this.
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* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
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* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then ChangelingTheLost, TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
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* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?
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* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?psychology?
** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other force supressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.
** A lot of this has to do with the game being set in the OldWorldOfDarkness. While each game can be played as their own universe, a lot of the fluff and metaplot do involve the other races. The setting is often dark and depressed, and with the Weaver and various other force supressing humanity, dreaming is extremely hard.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
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* FridgeHorror: Yeah, it's a lighter game then ChangelingTheLost, isn't it? There, you play someone who escaped MindRape at the hands of alien gods, while you're fighting to restore wonder and hope...and will explicitly lose due to metaplot saying so, and you won't live beyond your thirties unless you go Dauntain. Hence, why a lot of players think Lost is actually the more hopeful game.
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?
* FridgeLogic: Banality brings about a lot of this. Why, for instance, are scientists Banal, when they are often noted as some of the most imaginative and creative people around in RealLife? Why does growing up rob you of Glamour, when people not suffering clinical depression have been repeatedly noted to retain their dreams and hope throughout life, as noted in psychology?
