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Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
to:
** Given his that the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a an EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
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Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
]] Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
to:
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Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
* AdaptationDisplacement: After ''Carousel'', Liliom's now a footnote.
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
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* AdaptationDisplacement: After ''Carousel'', Liliom's ''Liliom''[='s=] now a footnote.
*AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
]] Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
*
]] Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
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* ValuesDissonance: A general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into [[Music/AmandaPalmer a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome]] ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
** Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
** Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: A general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been was later made by Music/AmandaPalmer into [[Music/AmandaPalmer a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome]] syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
**something. Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
**
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** Julie. Just Julie period.
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** Julie. Just Julie Julie, period.
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Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* FairForItsDay: The topic of domestic abuse was not handled very well in this play, but the fact that it even admitted this happened was a small breakthrough.
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* FairForItsDay: The topic of domestic abuse was not handled very well in this play, but in 1945 the fact that it even admitted this happened was a small breakthrough.
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: A general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: A general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into [[Music/AmandaPalmer a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome syndrome]] ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
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This last point feels like a non-sequitur defense.
Deleted line(s) 12 (click to see context) :
** It also helps that other characters in the show never outright approve of Billy's actions regardless of Julie's feelings, and Billy still has to earn his redemption.
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: The general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: The A general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
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** It also helps that other characters in the show never outright approve of Billy's actions regardless of Julie's feelings, and Billy still has to earn his redemption.
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Enoch Snow Jr. has a number of interpretations
Added DiffLines:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Given his the portrayal of his minor role depends on the production, Enoch Snow Jr. invites a lot of this. Is he a EntitledBastard whose marriage proposal to Louise was CondescendingCompassion to save her from a life of sin? A well-meaning guy trying to invoke ChildhoodFriendRomance? Does he agree with his father that Louise is "beneath his station" or simply saying what his father would think and phrased it poorly? Depending if he's in the montage of Louise's Ballet as in the movie, is he a guy who genuinely likes Louise but has a bad case of BystanderSyndrome when it comes to standing up for her? Does his outburst against Louise show his true colors as a RichJerk or is it just something said in a fit of temper that he regretted later?
** Likewise how does Louise see him? A ChildhoodFriend who she can confide in? A nuisance she barely puts up with? Does she have feelings for him or not?
** Likewise how does Louise see him? A ChildhoodFriend who she can confide in? A nuisance she barely puts up with? Does she have feelings for him or not?
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Misuse.
Deleted line(s) 3 (click to see context) :
* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: Because of ValuesDissonance, some modern audiences might find this an endorsement of DomesticAbuse.
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Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* EarWorm: The Carousel Waltz.
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Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
** Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonnance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
to:
** Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonnance DeliberateValuesDissonance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
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None
Added DiffLines:
** Newer productions tend to aim for DeliberateValuesDissonnance in that same vein by showing Julie's love for him as more unambiguously tragic and self-destructive or highlighting the cycle of subpar parenting that produced Billy and would have been passed on to his child; some productions go as far as to make it ambiguous whether the one good deed Billy performs at the end is enough to save him from damnation.
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* TearJerker: "You'll Never Walk Alone"
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* TearJerker: TearJerker:
** "You'll Never Walk Alone"
** "You'll Never Walk Alone"
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* TheWoobie: Julie. Just Julie period
to:
* TheWoobie: TheWoobie:
** Julie. Just Julieperiodperiod.
** Julie. Just Julie
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
** The instrumental ballet "Billy Makes a Journey". Turns into a bit of NightmareFuel at the end when after she is left by a circus boy she had a crush on, a group of kids [[CircleOfShame circle her and chant "shame on you!"]] until Louise runs away crying.
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** The instrumental ballet "Billy Makes a Journey". Turns "Louise's Ballet". It turns into a bit of NightmareFuel at the end when after she is left by a circus boy she had a crush on, a group of kids [[CircleOfShame circle her and chant "shame on you!"]] until Louise runs away crying.
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Added DiffLines:
* TearJerker: "You'll Never Walk Alone"
** The instrumental ballet "Billy Makes a Journey". Turns into a bit of NightmareFuel at the end when after she is left by a circus boy she had a crush on, a group of kids [[CircleOfShame circle her and chant "shame on you!"]] until Louise runs away crying.
** The instrumental ballet "Billy Makes a Journey". Turns into a bit of NightmareFuel at the end when after she is left by a circus boy she had a crush on, a group of kids [[CircleOfShame circle her and chant "shame on you!"]] until Louise runs away crying.
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Added DiffLines:
* TheWoobie: Julie. Just Julie period
** Also Louise, her daughter. Due to her father's reputation, she has almost no friends since the local kids ostracize her. Poor thing...
** Also Louise, her daughter. Due to her father's reputation, she has almost no friends since the local kids ostracize her. Poor thing...
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* {{Earworm}}: The Carousel Waltz.
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* {{Earworm}}: EarWorm: The Carousel Waltz.
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* SpecialEffectsFailure: The scenes of the movie shot indoors look more artificial than those shot on location.
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* SpecialEffectsFailure: SpecialEffectFailure: The scenes of the movie shot indoors look more artificial than those shot on location.
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None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesDissonance: The general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: The general theme of the story is supposed to be "Love your man, despite his faults." But it comes off as "If your deadbeat husband beats you and has no respect for you, it just means he loves you." The fact that the song telling this moral has been made into a chilling remix describing battered wife syndrome ''without changing a single thing about the song'' really says something.something.
----
----
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Added DiffLines:
* SpecialEffectsFailure: The scenes of the movie shot indoors look more artificial than those shot on location.
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None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* {{Padding}}: "June Is Bustin' Out All Over" seems to eat up too much of the movie, due to its five minute dance sequence near the end.
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* {{Padding}}: "June Is Bustin' Out All Over" seems to eat up too much of the movie, due to its five minute since it has a five-minute dance sequence near the end.performed either mostly or entirely by nameless extras.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* {{Padding}}: "June Is Bustin' Out All Over" seems to eat up too much of the movie, due to its five minute dance sequence near the end.
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unfortunate implications need citations.
Deleted line(s) 5,7 (click to see context) :
* UnfortunateImplications: The musical seems to some people like an endorsement of DomesticAbuse.
-->'''Louise Bigelow:''' But is it possible, Mother, for someone to hit you hard like that - real loud and hard, and it not hurt you at all?
-->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
-->'''Louise Bigelow:''' But is it possible, Mother, for someone to hit you hard like that - real loud and hard, and it not hurt you at all?
-->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
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Moving from main.
Added DiffLines:
* FairForItsDay: The topic of domestic abuse was not handled very well in this play, but the fact that it even admitted this happened was a small breakthrough.
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... what page quote?
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* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: Because of ValuesDissonance, some modern audiences might find this an endorsement of DomesticAbuse (see page quote).
to:
* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: Because of ValuesDissonance, some modern audiences might find this an endorsement of DomesticAbuse (see page quote).DomesticAbuse.
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Changed line(s) 5,6 (click to see context) from:
->'''Louise Bigelow:''' But is it possible, Mother, for someone to hit you hard like that - real loud and hard, and it not hurt you at all?
->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
to:
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Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* UnfortunateImplications: As seen in the page quote, the musical seems like an endorsement of DomesticAbuse.
to:
* UnfortunateImplications: As seen in the page quote, the The musical seems to some people like an endorsement of DomesticAbuse.DomesticAbuse.
->'''Louise Bigelow:''' But is it possible, Mother, for someone to hit you hard like that - real loud and hard, and it not hurt you at all?
->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
->'''Louise Bigelow:''' But is it possible, Mother, for someone to hit you hard like that - real loud and hard, and it not hurt you at all?
->'''Julie Jordan:''' It is possible dear, for someone to hit you, hit you hard, and it not hurt at all.
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None
Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: Billy's "Soliloquy" at the end of Act 1, in which his mood shifts from excitement over the possibility of having a son, to affection towards the possibility of having a daughter, before he ultimately realizes he should try harder to make money in order to support a child.