History WebVideo / CheckmateLincolnites

** This is how General Meade is characterized by both Johnny and Billy, but Johnny means it as an insult and Billy as a complement. Johnny tries to argue that Meade [[GeoEffects holed up on top of a hill at Gettysburg and just let the rebel army exhaust itself assaulting high ground with inferior numbers]], while Billy, though he outright says Meade wasn't a very creative general or a genius, points out numerous places where Meade could have, and where less competent military officers even thought he had, made big mistakes, and instead just did everything right while Lee, in true Confederate fashion, [[AwesomeButImpractical pursued yet another daring tactical victory that ultimately destroyed him]].

[Title theme version of "Dixie" drowns out Billy's further explanations]
-->--'''Was it REALLY the WAR of NORTHERN AGGRESSION?!?!?!'''

->'''Johnny Reb:''' Why did the North invade the South in 1861? Was it because they "hated slavery"?
->'''Billy Yank:''' No, it was to save the Union.
->'''Johnny Reb:''' [[TitleDrop CHECKMATE, LINCOLNITES]]!
->[Title theme version of "Dixie" drowns out Billy's further explanations]

-->'''Billy Yank:''' Nathan Bedford Forrest, right, uh, slave trader, [[UsefulNotes/KuKluxKlan Klan leader]]...
-->'''Johnny Reb:''' ''Repentant'' Klan leader!
-->'''Billy Yank:''' [[SarcasmMode Oh, well that's ok, then]]!

-->'''Johnny Reb:''' It's funny, when snot nosed, green behind the ear, force fed warm bullshit college boys like yourself just regurgitate all the totally false narratives that you "learned". You sir are a syphilis-infested crotch goblin and deserve to be eaten alive by pygmy ants. ''God Save the South!''

-->'''Johnny Reb:''' "Massachusetts", interesting name. Is that named after some place in England? Is there a quaint little village in Suffolk named "Massachusetts"?

-->'''Billy Yank:''' It's a little dry.

-->'''Billy:''' John Brown's body lies a-moulderin' in the grave, John Brown's body lies a moulderin' in the grave/John Brown's body lies a-moulderin' in the grave, but his SOUL GOES MARCHIN' ONNNN! GLORY, GLORY HALLELUJAH/GLORY, GLORY HALLELUJAH, GLORY, GLORY HALLELUJAH, BUT HIS SOUL GOES MARCHIN' ON!
-->'''Johnny:''' You really don't have to give us a performance, Billy Yank...I must insist, that you stop that damn noise. Please shut up. Shut up. STOP SINGING! STOP THAT DAMN NOISE! GAH! OH, LORD HAVE MERCY! SHUT UP! SHUT UP! AGH! AAAAGH!

-->'''Billy Yank:''' You know what I wanna see? I wanna see a movie where Stonewall Jackson sits on the toilet and takes a huge ''crap''. That's ''humanity''.
-->'''Johnny Reb:''' How [[ComicallyMissingThePoint DARE YOU SPEAK OF THE GENERAL]] [[ToiletHumor RELEASIN' HIS BOWELS]]!

-->'''Billy Yank:''' Do you know what the seceding states were up to in the four months before Fort Sumter?
-->'''Johnny reb:''' ''Chillin'''. Yearnin' for freedom from ''Yankee tyranny''.

--> '''Billy Yank:''' What kind of unbelievable asshole can't distinguish between slave-owning Confederates and modern-day rural Southerners?
--> ''[both take a long, skeptical look at the camera]''

The series is comprised of ten episodes, the first of which, originally intended to be a standalone video, came out on May 23, 2019. Check out a more detailed episode guide [[Recap/CheckmateLincolnites here]].

** That the Confederacy was doomed from the outset and had no realistic chance of winning the American Civil War because of the overwhelming difference in resources between the Confederacy and the Union. Although the show goes out of its way to make it clear that, yes, the difference in industrial capacity and manpower between the two sides really was ''that'' big, Billy points out that plenty of other historical wars with huge differentials in military capacity haven't always ended in favor of the side with the bigger numbers. While the South were definitely the underdogs, they had good shot of winning, assuming they could break the North's will to keep up the fight. And while, yes, the difference in resources played a part, their ultimate loss owed just as much (if not more) to their generals' pursuit of [[PyrrhicVictory flashy tactical victories that didn't really further their war aims and bled out resources they couldn't afford to lose]], especially once the North started promoting strategically-minded commanders that actually knew how to properly bring their superior resources to bear.

** The idea that "slavery was on its way out". Atun points out that likely had the South won or at least won enough to remain separated from the Union, they likely would have adapted slavery into the rising technological advancements to come rather than just abolished it, since they were already working to internally industrialize with slave-labor factories to out compete the North in the long term. So long as slavery was profitable in any way, it would probably have remained, and the South outright intended to try to persuade other countries to readopt it. It's ''maybe'' possible it would have died down, but very likely not, definitely not without heavy external diplomatic pressure and almost certainly not within the original Confederate generation.

[[caption-width-right:1000:Billy Yank in the blue uniform, Johnny Reb in the gray uniform]]

[[caption-width-right:1000:Billy Yank on the left, Johnny Reb on the right]]

The series is comprised of ten episodes, the first of which, originally intended to be a standalone video, came out on May 23, 2019.
[[folder:List of Episodes]]
* 1. ''Confederate DESTROYS Yankee with FACTS and LOGIC'': Examines a number of different small Lost Cause claims, and [[NegativeContinuity ends with Billy Yank shooting Johnny Reb to death]].
* 2. ''Did Confederate Soldiers FIGHT for SLAVERY?!'': [[OrwellianRetcon Originally entitled]] ''Confederate Soldiers DIDN'T fight for SLAVERY!(Or did they?)''. Examines claims that the vast majority of Confederates fought to defend their country since most of them didn't own slaves.
* 3. ''TARIFFS and TAXES: The REAL Cause of the CIVIL WAR?!'': Examines claims that the Civil War was started due to the Morell Tariff rather than Abraham lincoln's election and the issue of slavery.
* 4. ''Was it REALLY the WAR of NORTHERN AGGRESSION?!?!?!'': Examines claims that the North started the war or that the war otherwise started due to Northern provocation. Features a crossover with ''WebVideo/TheWitchfinderGeneral''.
* 5. ''Was GENERAL SHERMAN a WAR CRIMINAL?!?!?!?!'': Examines claims that UsefulNotes/WilliamTecumsehSherman's actions during his famous razing of the Southern countryside on his March to Atlanta constitute war crimes, and whether his MemeticBadass status among Unionists is warranted.%%[[Invoked]]
* 6. ''Were There Really BLACK CONFEDERATES???!!!'': Examines claims that African-American slaves willingly fought as fully-fledged Confederate soldiers in the war.
* 7. ''Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!'': Examines claims that the South losing was an inevitability due to the North's overwhelming industry, that all the Northern generals sucked while UsefulNotes/RobertELee, Stonewall Jackson, and other Confederate generals were some of the greatest military minds of the 19th century, and that they held the moral high ground over the Unionist generals as men.
* 8. ''Wasn’t it KINDA About STATES’ RIGHTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!'': Examines claims that the Civil War was largely over the issues of states' rights and government overreach, as well ast the overall history of the states' rights movement.
* 9. ''Is Civil War History Being REWRITTEN?!?!?!?!?!'': Examines claims that more modern interpretations of Civil War history are "revisionist" and that "history is written by the victors".
* 10. ''The Checkmate Lincolnites Finale'': Unreleased, with a TBA release date.[[note]]It has been announced that preproduction is slated to begin in January 2024[[/note]].
[[/folder]]

* ArtifactTitle: When the series first started out, it was very clearly Johnny Reb's show where he was inviting(or sometimes blackmailing) Atun-Shei/Billy Yank on, and was styled after one-sided internet debate shows that obviously have a bias against the guest speaker("Confederate DESTROYS Yankee with FACTS and LOGIC"), with Johnny outright insulting and belittling his opponent's views. However, around the same time that Billy Yank became a distinct character from Atun-Shei, it became clearer that he and Johnny co-hosted the show and it functions more as a good-faith debate show in its current form (although Billy Yank still generally comes out on top, and it's made clear that his views still mainly align with Atun-Shei's own views).

* NobodyPoops: Discussed in "Confederate Soldiers DIDN'T fight for SLAVERY!(Or did they?)". Billy Yank makes the point that ''Film/GodsAndGenerals'' not only does such a bad job of portraying history, but also of [[HumansAreFlawed representing humans as complex beings]] that watching Stonewall Jackson poop would be a more accurate representation of real life.

* OrwellianRetcon: Atun-Shei changed the title of "Confederate Soldiers DIDN'T fight for SLAVERY!(Or did they?)" to "Did Confederate Soldiers FIGHT for SLAVERY!?" to make it fall in line with the DrivingQuestion ThemeNaming of the other episodes, as well as altering how the show used to very clearly be controlled by Johnny Reb, who would presumably make the titles sound more biased in his favor.
* OutsideJoke: In "Wasn't it KINDA about STATE'S RIGHTS!?!?!?!?!?", Johnny Reb out of nowhere asks Billy Yank if he's an Anarcho-Syndicalist. Billy has no idea what that is[[note]]Anarcho-Syndicalism believes in achieving Anarchism through empowered labor unions, most famously seen in the Catalina region during the UsefulNotes/SpanishCivilWar[[/note]], and says that he isn't.

* DudeNotFunny: During one of Johnny Reb's rants about wild hypotheticals that would lead to Southern independence (such as Sherman spontaneously combusting and Britain joining the war) he makes a passing reference to Judah P. Benjamin ("The Jewish Confederate") opening the Ark of the Covenant to vaporize the Army of the Potomac a la the villains of ''Film/RaidersOfTheLostArk'', who keep in mind, are Nazis:

* 7. ''Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!'': Examines claims that the South losing was an inevitability due to the North's overwhelming industry, that all the Northern generals sucked, and that UsefulNotes/RobertELee, Stonewall Jackson, and other Confederate generals were some of the greatest military minds of the 19th century.
* 8. ''Wasn’t it KINDA About STATES’ RIGHTS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!'': Examines claims that the Civil War was largely over the issues of states' rights and government overreach.

** In Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!, Johnny gets excited upon hearing Nathan Bedford Forrest's testimony that alludes to Black Confederate soldiers, Jumping up and down and shouting "Black Conderates, Black Confederates!" Billy gently reminds him that they've already discussed how Forrest is referring to the slave teamsters the Confederacy took with them on campaign in "Were There Really BLACK CONFEDERATES???!!!".

* 10. ''The Checkmate Lincolnites Finale'': Unreleased, with a TBA release date.

** That the Confederacy was doomed from the outset and had no realistic chance of winning the American Civil War because of the overwhelming difference in resources between the Confederacy and the Union. While the show goes out of its way to make it clear that, yes, the difference in industrial capacity and manpower between the two sides really was ''that'' big, Billy points out that plenty of other historical wars with huge differentials in military capacity haven't always ended in favor of the side with the bigger numbers. While the South were definitely the underdogs, they had good shot of winning, assuming they could break the North's will to keep up the fight. And while, yes, the difference in resources played a part, their ultimate loss owed just as much (if not more) to their generals' pursuit of [[PyrrhicVictory flashy tactical victories that didn't really further their war aims and bled out resources they couldn't afford to lose]], especially once the North started promoting strategically-minded commanders that actually knew how to properly bring their superior resources to bear.
** UsefulNotes/UlyssesSGrant being an alcoholic who would just throw troops into battle and win by sheer numbers. Grant did have alcohol issues, but he never drank before a battle, and was more of a binge/social drinker. He also wasn't someone who just threw men to die, but rather was a strategic general, and he had a large loss of troops due to just how intense factors outside his control often were.

* NonIndicativeName: Despite the show being called ''Checkmate, Lincolnites!'', which would imply it's about dunking on defenders of the Union (I.E. "Lincolnites"), it's actually about debunking common pro-Confederate myths. This is discussed at the beginning of "Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!" when Billy Yank inverts the usual opening dynamic with a snappy one-liner reply to one of Johnny's speeches and awkwardly attempts to introduce the show in Johnny's style as ''Checkmate, [[UsefulNotes/JeffersonDavis Davis]]ites!'', complete with fancy graphic. Johnny mocks him by pointing out it's not as catchy as hgis own catchphrase.

** In "Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!" Johnny Reb makes a point then smugly asks Billy Yank how that humble pie tastes. Cut to reveal he meant the literal pie Billy is eating.

* MyRuleFuIsStrongerThanYours: When Johnny Reb tries to argue that the Southern states had the legal right to secede from the Union as guaranteed in Article X[[note]]"It's ''Amendment'' X."[[/note]] of the Constitution, Billy Yank first says that it's a moot point because of [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White Texas v. White]], but whips out a pocket constitution to humor him. He then points out that the wording of the Tenth Amendment is an extremely broad rebuke of federal law and doesn't specifically say anything about secession. Johnny counters this by saying it's implied, but Billy Yank runs with that logic and points to Article 6, Section 2, which has been interpreted by the Supreme Court several times as implying that Federal Law supersedes State law, meaning that something like [[UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar unilateral secession after a disliked presidential election result]] would be super duper illegal.

* NeverMyFault: Discussed in the ''Checkmate, Lincolnites!'' episode "Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!", which examines the popular claim that the Confederate Army's leaders were universally superior tacticians compared to the Union Army's leaders, and the related claim that the Union only won because they had [[WeHaveReserves more abundant resources and manpower]]. Billy Yank argues that this claim is (at the very least) a gross oversimplification of historical fact, and suggests that it was partially propagated by Confederate generals who didn't want to take responsibility for their blunders on the battlefield.

* NonIndicativeName: Despite the show being called ''Checkmate, Lincolnites!'', which would imply it's about dunking on defenders of the Union (I.E. "Lincolnites"), it's actually about debunking common pro-Confederate myths. This is discussed at the beginning of "Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!" when Billy Yank attempts to introduce the show in Johnny's style as ''Checkmate, [[UsefulNotes/JeffersonDavis Davis]]ites!'', complete with fancy graphic. They both agree that despite being more accurate it just isn't as catchy.

* SelfMadeMyth: Conspicuously inverted by General George Henry Thomas, a modest-to-a-fault Unionist Virginian whom Billy pegs as probably the single greatest general in the entire Civil War. General Thomas, known in his own time as "the Rock of Chickamauga," never lost a single movement, let alone battle, in the entire war, fetched up against "Stonewall" Jackson in the very first engagement of the war before the first Battle of Bull Run/Manasses even got started and sent him running, saved the Army of the Cumberland from complete destruction and then annihilated John Bell Hood's Confederate army (NotHyperbole) in a later engagement taking an entire region out of the war. But, because Thomas was by temperament a modest guy who hated the thought of history looking back at him, burning all his correspondence and refusing to write memoirs, and because he didn't like pushing for promotions even when he arguably deserved them and was subject to a lot of discrimination on both sides of the war, with the North looking down on him during the Civil War for his Southern origins and the South seeing him as a faithless traitor once the war ended, he's been kind of forgotten by history despite his impressive accomplishments.

* BlackAndGrayMorality: In episode 5, Billy Yank explains while the unspeakable violence committed on Southern civilians by the Union Army during Sherman's March to the Sea can't be in any way justified (especially the evisceration of Columbia, South Carolina due to riotous and drunken Union soldiers, of which Sherman famously remarked that [[BlamingTheVictim it was the Confederates' own fault for leaving a bunch of alcohol behind for his men to get drunk with]]), he does advance the point that Sherman's brutal and calculated destruction of Southern resources [[JerkassHasAPoint did bring the war to a swifter conclusion in the way he intended]], making it very difficult to determine whether the means he took to end the war were justified or not.

* AwesomeButImpractical: The ultimate judgment of most Confederate commanders in the American Civil War. Lee in particular is singled out as a spectacular tactician who regularly won incredible field victories that military tacticians fawn over, without usually meaningfully advancing the Confederacy's war aims and losing men and materials his army and the rebellion couldn't really spare.

* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: On the flip side, Billy frequently makes it a main point of contention that the Lost Cause attempts to color the Union as evil, dictatorial big-government types who invaded and enacted something akin to [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Generalplan Ost]] on the helpless Confederacy. While the North was by no means the shining paragon of virtue that it is sometimes portrayed as in fiction (and Billy takes care to avoid characterizing it as such), it was definitely not worse than the side ''literally fighting to perpetuate slavery and enshrine it as a God-given right in the Constitution''. Billy also repeatedly throughout the series points out instances where even with all the North's flaws, it did have people among its ranks who were remarkably progressive for their time period and managed to sway Northern public opinion almost entirely toward ending slavery even if that wasn't a goal at the war's start.

->[Instrumental version of "Dixie" drowns out Billy's further explanations]

* DeadArtistsAreBetter: While Billy says that "Stonewall" Jackson is indeed a great offensive general, even admitting he likes Jackson, he argues that Jackson's death shortly before the South was forced on the defensive and never really got back to attacking was probably the best thing that could've happened to his reputation. While Jackson's brilliance as an offensive general was unmatched, he often froze up when pushed on the defensive and would almost certainly have made huge, reputation-staining mistakes (some of which Billy points out had already happened, and that history has largely glossed over thanks to his posthumous legend) had he been forced to fight in the desperate last days of the war as Grant ground Virginia into paste.

* UnPerson: Billy Yank points out to Johnny Reb that, although James Longstreet was one of the Confederacy's most able commanders and led the Confederate Army to multiple victories, there are practically no monuments to him in the South or elsewhere, and he's virtually absent from the post-war hagiography of Confederate leaders like Lee, Jackson, or Early. Billy attributes this to Longstreet's defense of reintegration with the Union and, crucially, to his support of Black civil rights in the Reconstruction era -- he even led city defense forces against a white supremacist mob at the Battle of Liberty Place. Billy cites this as evidence that Confederate monuments are really about white supremacy and whitewashing historical realities, rather than honoring the dead or memorializing important history and people as their defenders often claim.

** The idea that "slavery was on its way out". Atun points out that likely had the South won or at least won enough to remain separated from the Union, they likely would have adapted slavery into the rising technological advancements to come rather than cease to exist. So long as slavery was profitable in any way, it would have remained. It's ''maybe'' possible it would have died down, but very likely not, definitely not without heavy external diplomatic pressure and almost certainly not within the original Confederate generation.
** The idea that Lincoln was a racist towards black slaves. Atun-Shei doesn't deny that Lincoln and the North didn't initially make the conflict about slavery rather than about stopping the South from breaking away, but he points out that many of the "Lincoln was a racist" arguments draw on sources from before he became President, and were likely just Lincoln trying to win the office however he could at a time when the majority of his voters were white supremacists. Lincoln wasn't a die-hard abolitionist, but he did take anti-slavery positions throughout his time in political office and did eventually make abolition a major war aim, something which it's pointed out cost him in the short term, with the Union army experiencing many desertions, but ultimately spelt the Confederacy's doom by drying up all their hopes of foreign aid forever.