Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Granting this, Eliot said in a lecture that so many literary critics interpreted it as a social commentary on the contemporary world when Eliot himself said: "To me it was only the relief of a personal and wholly insignificant grouse against life; it is just a piece of rhythmical grumbling..."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ThrowItIn: When Vivienne Eliot read the manuscript, she loved the scenes between the neurotic wife and her husband, and also the scene in the pub. In the page margins of the latter episode, she wrote the lines "If you don’t like it you can get on with it" and "What you get married for if you don’t want to have children?", lines she’d presumably overheard in pubs. Eliot incorporated them into the poem, slightly modified.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving a straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it. Eliot declined and replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many]].
to:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving a straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, a poet and contemporary who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it. Eliot declined and replied that the legitimate meaning of a the poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and author; he points out that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is merely one interpreter among many]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it. Eliot declined and replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many]].
to:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving a straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it. Eliot declined and replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it, but Eliot declined. Eliot replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many]].
to:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it, but it. Eliot declined. Eliot declined and replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it, but Eliot declined, saying that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, saying that the author is one interpreter among many.
to:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it, but Eliot declined, saying declined. Eliot replied that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, saying and that [[DeathOfTheAuthor the author is one interpreter among many.many]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ShrugOfGod: Eliot refrained from giving straight answer to what the poem is about. A Claude Colleer Abbott, who liked the poem, wrote to Eliot and asked him to tell him more about it, but Eliot declined, saying that the legitimate meaning of a poem is that which it has for the reader, not that which it has for the author, saying that the author is one interpreter among many.
-->"I am pleased that you like ''The Waste Land'' and wish that I could tell you more about it. It is not an evasion, but merely the truth, to say that I think in these cases that an explanation by the author is of no more value than one by anybody else. You see, the only legitimate meaning of a poem is the meaning which it has for any reader, not a meaning which it has primarily for the author. The author means all sorts of things which concern nobody else but himself, in that he may be making use of his private experiences. But these private experiences are merely crude material, and as such of no interest whatever to the public."
-->"I am pleased that you like ''The Waste Land'' and wish that I could tell you more about it. It is not an evasion, but merely the truth, to say that I think in these cases that an explanation by the author is of no more value than one by anybody else. You see, the only legitimate meaning of a poem is the meaning which it has for any reader, not a meaning which it has primarily for the author. The author means all sorts of things which concern nobody else but himself, in that he may be making use of his private experiences. But these private experiences are merely crude material, and as such of no interest whatever to the public."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 4,7 (click to see context) :
* ReferencedBy: Provides the title for two novels by Ian M Banks:
--> Gentile or Jew\\
O you who turn the wheel and {{Literature/look to windward}}\\
Literature/ConsiderPhlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
--> Gentile or Jew\\
O you who turn the wheel and {{Literature/look to windward}}\\
Literature/ConsiderPhlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* BigNameFan: The extremely critical Creator/JamesJoyce, who on reading ''The Waste Land'' made the ambiguous comment in a notebook "T. Eliot ends idea of poetry for ladies." Joyce was not necessarily being sexist, here; of all his generation of male Modernist writers, he was the one most receptive to early 20th century feminism (as witnessed by his own tendency to write female characters who weren't just there to be love objects for the men.) Joyce meant that Eliot had written a poem that was so intellectually heavyweight that male literary critics were forced to take it seriously.
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* Some of Eliot's peers found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''FanFic/MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ReferencedBy: Provides the title for two novels by Ian M Banks:
--> Gentile or Jew\\
O you who turn the wheel and {{Literature/look to windward}}\\
Literature/ConsiderPhlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
--> Gentile or Jew\\
O you who turn the wheel and {{Literature/look to windward}}\\
Literature/ConsiderPhlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* BigNameFan: The extremely critical Creator/JamesJoyce, who on reading ''The Waste Land'' made the ambiguous comment in a notebook "T Eliot ends idea of poetry for ladies." Joyce was not necessarily being sexist, here; of all his generation of male Modernist writers, he was the one most receptive to early 20th century feminism (as witnessed by his own tendency to write female characters who weren't just there to be love objects for the men.) Joyce meant that Eliot had written a poem that was so intellectually heavyweight that male literary critics were forced to take it seriously.
to:
----
* BigNameFan: The extremely critical Creator/JamesJoyce, who on reading ''The Waste Land'' made the ambiguous comment in a notebook"T "T. Eliot ends idea of poetry for ladies." Joyce was not necessarily being sexist, here; of all his generation of male Modernist writers, he was the one most receptive to early 20th century feminism (as witnessed by his own tendency to write female characters who weren't just there to be love objects for the men.) Joyce meant that Eliot had written a poem that was so intellectually heavyweight that male literary critics were forced to take it seriously.
* BigNameFan: The extremely critical Creator/JamesJoyce, who on reading ''The Waste Land'' made the ambiguous comment in a notebook
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
-->“[. . .] I ain't, you must know,” said Betty, “much of a hand at reading writing-hand, though I can read my Bible and most print. And I do love a newspaper. You mightn’t think it, but Sloppy is a beautiful reader of a newspaper. He do the Police in different voices.”
to:
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* Some of Eliot's peers found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
to:
* Some of Eliot's peers found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', ''FanFic/MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* BigNameFan: The extremely critical Creator/JamesJoyce, who on reading ''The Waste Land'' made the ambiguous comment in a notebook "T Eliot ends idea of poetry for ladies." Joyce was not necessarily being sexist, here; of all his generation of male Modernist writers, he was the one most receptive to early 20th century feminism (as witnessed by his own tendency to write female characters who weren't just there to be love objects for the men.) Joyce meant that Eliot had written a poem that was so intellectually heavyweight that male literary critics were forced to take it seriously.
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Even many Modernists found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
to:
* Even many Modernists Some of Eliot's peers found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Even many Modernists found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
to:
* Even many Modernists found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. HPLovecraft Creator/HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Even many Modernists found this poem incomprehensible, ambiguous and incoherent. HPLovecraft was among many to speculate that this was Eliot's ''MyImmortal'', that he was trolling the readers or pulling their leg. Lovecraft's quasi-Joycean parody, ''[[http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/poetry/p228.aspx Waste Paper: A Poem of Profound Insignificance]]'', is delightfully refreshing to anyone who's had this inflicted on them in school.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.[[/note]]
to:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.[[/note]]pub, notably contributing the ArmorPiercingQuestion "What you get married for if you don't want children?"[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.[[/note]]
to:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.[[/note]][[/note]]
* WorkingTitle: The working title was ''He Do The Police In Different Voices'', a ShoutOut to Creator/CharlesDickens, specifically ''Literature/OurMutualFriend'':
-->“[. . .] I ain't, you must know,” said Betty, “much of a hand at reading writing-hand, though I can read my Bible and most print. And I do love a newspaper. You mightn’t think it, but Sloppy is a beautiful reader of a newspaper. He do the Police in different voices.”
* WorkingTitle: The working title was ''He Do The Police In Different Voices'', a ShoutOut to Creator/CharlesDickens, specifically ''Literature/OurMutualFriend'':
-->“[. . .] I ain't, you must know,” said Betty, “much of a hand at reading writing-hand, though I can read my Bible and most print. And I do love a newspaper. You mightn’t think it, but Sloppy is a beautiful reader of a newspaper. He do the Police in different voices.”
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.
to:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* CreatorBreakdown: Eliot and his first wife Vivienne both suffered breakdowns during the extended composition of the poem, and he was always open about the extent to which she contributed to it, so this applies to both of them.[[note]]To be specific, her handwritten comments are all over the manuscript, and he incorporated a good deal of her advice and suggestions; she registered her strong enthusiasm for the "My nerves are bad tonight" sequence, which seems to be a snapshot of the Eliots' domestic life, and it's generally acknowledged that she had a hand in the composition of the conversation between the Cockney women in the pub.
