History TierInducedScrappy / SuperSmashBros

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their great kit and sheer ubiquity. This reached its breaking point at the Smash World Tour Championship Finals, where the top 3 were all Pyra/Mythra players, causing comparisons to that of Bayonetta's dominance towards the end of ''Smash 4''.

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their great kit and sheer ubiquity. This reached its breaking point at the Smash World Tour Championship Finals, where the top 3 were all Pyra/Mythra players which caused comparisons to that of Bayonetta's dominance towards the end of ''Smash 4''.

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their great kit and sheer ubiquity.

** Her ''Smash 4'' appearance is the most hated fighter across all of ''Smash''. She and Cloud helped create a "[[BribingYourWayToVictory pay to win]]" stigma upon DLC characters, with Cloud [[TropeMaker starting the trend]] and Bayonetta [[TropeCodifier codifying]] it. Her damage output per combo and punish were regarded as the best in the game by miles. She could tack on massive amounts of damage per punish, even creating conditional "touches of death" for a single mistake on the opponent's part. And with a combination of range and priority, Bayonetta could catch mistakes easily. Her recovery is nigh-untouchable, and challenging it even allowed Bayonetta to edgeguard or combo back in return. Witch Time is the best "{{counter attack}}" in the game, able to slow down opponents for a free smash attack, stifling a recovery, or an easy edgeguard. She also has the best dodges in the game thanks to Bat Within which allows Bayonetta to take zero knockback and only half-damage. While her weaknesses are enough to allow punishes, they're nothing compared to her benefits, stirring up a massive controversy as to whether or not Bayonetta should even be legal. Update 1.1.6 was dedicated to mostly {{nerf}}ing just Bayonetta. But even with these nerfs, Bayonetta's punish game remained intact. The Bayonetta hatred reared its ugly head during the grand finals of EVO 2018, where a Bayonetta [[MirrorMatch ditto]] between [=CaptainZack=] and Lima led to much of the audience walking out, with [=CaptainZack=] even saying [[SeriousBusiness he received death threats and accused of ruining the game]].

** In ''Smash 4'', Corrin had an interesting and very powerful toolkit with a strong ground-to-aerial game with their tilts, very strong and long-ranged smash attacks, and a three-stage projectile in Dragon Fang Shot that could stun opponents and allow follow-ups. However, the two traits of Corrin that are linked to their "high-tier scrappyhood" are their Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge specials. Dragon Lunge, Corrin's side special, is a very powerful, quick move that not only could KO opponents early if tipped, but also could "pin" for a follow-up. And Dragon Surge is the best counter in the game, launching people straight up instead of to the side, making it a good combo starter. This results in a special-heavy game, but one that's pretty predictable. As time passed, Corrin's top tier status fell, thanks to the identification of their main weaknesses, such as their sub-par recovery and lack of follow-ups off of grabs, which has helped Corrin alleviate some of their high-tier scrappy status.

* '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'''. Hold onto tight, because ThisIsGonnaSuck.

* '''Luigi''[='s=] ''Ultimate'' incarnation is his most polarizing to date. His quick grab being replaced with a tether that did not serve as a recovery, and his Luigi Cyclone rising far less, dealt a heavy blow to his recovery and made him far more vulnerable to gimps. In practice however, his new grab gave Luigi a grab aerial that functions as a combo starter, Luigi Cyclone now serves as a useful ComboBreaker thanks to its invincibility frames, and his potent combo starters, extenders, and finishers means he has ways to combo into his Super Jump Punch easily. He's usually assessed as a mid-tier character, as despite his incredibly explosive damage output, Luigi is highly susceptible to getting walled out by projectiles and/or platform camped due the opponent being unwilling to risk an interaction with Luigi, while his recovery is laughably easy to gimp should he lose his jump offstage. Regardless, Luigi is a character many dread fighting, as being grabbed by him even once can result in the opponent being thrown into a world of hurt.

* '''[[Franchise/DragonQuest Hero]]''' is likely the most contentious both example in ''Super Smash Bros.'' history. He is designed around RPG elements, boasting an MP system and some of the most luck-based mechanics ever put in a ''Smash'' game. He has a 1/8th chance of critical hits with smash attacks that can kill or shatter shields with ease. His menu down special that has tons of great options such as stat buffs with the most infamous ones being a OneHitKill, a guaranteed recovery from anywhere, a constant reflector, a SuicideAttack with an unblockable blast radius and extreme kill power, and a [[InstantDeathRadius massive explosion that can easily kill. However, this all comes at the expense of a terrible normal moveset, and he becomes very vulnerable if caught off stage with low mana. The luck and language issues led to [[https://www.destructoid.com/smash-ultimate-s-hero-is-banned-by-a-major-australian-tournament-organizer-563935.phtml some banning]] [[https://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-france-bans-hero-and-future-dlc-characters-from-official-smash-bros-ultimate-tournaments/ him outright]]. On the other hand, Hero's weaknesses and heavy reliance on luck would lead to overall dismal results, ensuring the bans would get retracted and only a few players continuing to use him to middling success.

** Ness' worst tier ranking came in ''Melee'', where he was hit with some major nerfs, most notably with his down-air having added startup time and the distance of his recovery being drastically reduced, and his lack of range was still as exploitable as ever. Outside of occasional use as a sandbagging or desperate secondary by Melee god "Hungrybox", he's never seen play at Melee's highest levels, and Ness is ranked fourth-lowest in that game's tier list.

** ''Ultimate'' has his best incarnation yet. His PK Fire got buffed and can rack up insane damage. His up-air has faster startup and great combo potential. His yo-yo smash attacks had their charging hitboxes restored, and can now even be used off the edge. Also, he majorly benefits from having one of the best directional air dodges in the game, vastly improving his recovery. Furthermore, his PK Thunder has become even more annoying, as the changes to air dodges make it even harder to avoid. Competitively, his worst matchups continue to be against characters who outrange him, such as most of the Sword characters, or who beat his aerials with their own and edgeguard him. Ness still has his weaknesses, but due to his already established infamy, Ness is a widely hated character to fight regardless of skill level.

** In ''Melee'' Kirby was severely nerfed. He has awful approach options, the lack of an effective projectile without [[PowerCopying copying one from Inhale]], terrible mobility, and generally being poor-to-mediocre in every relevant area. Even his recovery that's supposed to be good is pretty poor because of how easy it is to edgeguard. He also has some of the worst throws in ''Smash'' history, rendered completely useless by the simple fact that you can effortlessly escape it with a simple jump. This leads Kirby to have abysmal matchups against everyone, and a complete lack of any tournament success.
** In ''Brawl'', Kirby got some serious buffs. Kirby has one of the strongest combo abilities in ''Brawl'' (notable since the game is known for its anti-combo engine), as well as a strong grab game. Kirby also retained some of his signature traits from the previous games, such as fast frame data, disjointed reach on his attacks, one of the better edge-guarding capabilities, a long-distanced recovery. However, Kirby still retains his other weaknesses such as being light and having poor momentum canceling abilities, and a susceptibility to camping due to his slow mobility and lack of a true projectile unless he Inhales one. Nevertheless, the pink puffball was, for a time, considered high tier, until settling down into a perennial yet still stable mid-tier.

** In ''Ultimate'', Kirby was nerfed even further. He struggles with neutral, on a character that has poor range and has to work extremely hard to get in. His throws were also nerfed in KO power and utility. The game's engine also exacerbated his poor aerial physics, with his long distanced recovery being overshadowed by his slow air speed. This culminated into a character that had little to no cohesiveness, making him feel broken in a bad way. Even the most renowned of Kirby mains bailed on him, warning other players to simply avoid Kirby. Fortunately, Kirby has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of ''Ultimate''[='=]s updates (receiving changes in 2.0.0, 3.0.0, 6.0.0 and 8.0.0), helping him finally regain much-needed reward and cohesiveness in his kit. While he is considered to be much better, Kirby still remains in the lower parts of the tier list and some of the aforementioned problems remain unfixed.

** In ''Brawl'', while significantly better due to the floatier engine playing well to his strong air game (including a buffed recovery), Ness was still seen as lower mid-tier at best due to his recovery and range weaknesses, as well as a few match-ups that heavily worked against him. In spite of a decent matchup against one of the metagame's biggest terrors in Olimar), Ness saw little competitive play once again.

** ''Ultimate'' has his best incarnation yet. His PK Fire got buffed and can rack up insane damage. His up air has faster startup and great combo potential. His yo-yo smash attacks had their charging hitboxes restored, and can now even be used off the edge. Also, he majorly benefits from having one of the best directional air dodges in the game, vastly improving his recovery. Furthermore, his PK Thunder has become even more annoying, as the changes to air dodges make it even harder to avoid. Competitively, his worst matchups continue to be against characters who outrange him, such as most of the Sword characters, or who beat his aerials with their own and edgeguard him. Ness still has his weaknesses, but due to his already established infamy, Ness is a widely hated character to fight regardless of skill level.

** In ''Ultimate'', the game's physics have made Puff's life much easier thanks to air dodges being much worse, thus restoring its edgeguard game. This only became more apparent after updates 6.0.0 and 13.0.0. The former patch increased the hitstun of Pound and decreased the ending lag of down-air, with the result being that Jigglypuff now has ''multiple'' ways to combo into Rest. The latter patch breathed new life in Jigglypuff's grounded kit, as its neutral attack's second hit has much less endlag, granting it new hit confirms and even a KO setup. Overall, both patches have given Jigglypuff a massive boost in damage and [=KO=] potential. However, it is still very light, and [[DeathOrGloryAttack Rest will still screw Jigglypuff over if it doesn't kill]]. It's still very difficult for the Puff to get in against sword-fighters which is its prime weakness, but general consensus is while the Puff isn't quite to the level it was in ''Melee'', it has improved significantly.

** ''Brawl'' improved Bowser by giving him significantly greater mobility and faster attacks with greater reach in exchange for slightly less power. Also, he got an improved recovery, and the slower pace of the engine was more favorable for Bowser. However, after the first year of the game's life, he plummeted through the tier lists to being right back in low tier, for many of the same reasons as in ''Melee''; vulnerability to the game's many powerful chain throws have ensured he won't be going up again anytime soon.
** His ''Smash 4'' incarnation got a wildly inconsistent perception. Bowser was the strongest and fastest he'd ever been, got a further buffed recovery, a bunch of effective attacks, and [[ImmuneToFlinching super armor]]; this is on top of the newly added rage mechanic significantly benefiting hard-hitting characters that can live a long time like Bowser. Further adding to this is the game's noticeably frailer shields, making his moves much tougher to block. But the general playerbase [[SomeDexterityRequired becoming better]], and able to exploit Bowser's same old weaknesses, made his tier placement suffer. But then, patch 1.1.4 buffed him again, and the result was Bowser rushing up into the high tiers once again. Along with Donkey Kong, Bowser's up throw being beneficiary of improved combo potential was excellent enough to shoot him up into the high tiers, and with greater tournament results, this finally moved Bowser from his low tier rut.
** In ''Ultimate'', despite his up throw being nerfed, Bowser was buffed ''immensely''. To start, not only was Bowser's super armor buffed further from the previous game, but mor of his attacks now have it. All of Bowser's specials were buffed greatly, with Fire Breath tacking on heavy damage, his Flying Slam command grab being a deadly combination of fast and strong, and Bowser Bomb being able to meteor smash opponents and [=KO=] opponents earlier. The most notable change was that his jump animation was put in line with the universal engine change, making his aerials incredibly strong and useful. Finally, he got even heavier (although not by much), making him even harder to launch. These buffs turned Bowser into a LightningBruiser, with lots of options for just about every situation. Bowser comfortably resides around the lower end of high tier, and combined with a solid playerbase and very respectable tourney results, it's not likely he'll be slowed down anytime soon.

** In ''Melee'', Falco amassed quite a competitive fanbase, with many players being drawn to his potential for flashy combos. Some consider him to be better than Fox in terms of power, due to his Blaster that causes hitstun (whereas Fox's doesn't), easier shine combos, and brutal finishers, particularly his down-air. However, these traits also cause him to be loathed in some circles, particularly with the rise of ''Melee'' netplay. On the other hand, there are players who still love the character and cheer him on at the highest levels, particularly in the modern metagame where everyone now knows how to abuse his weaknesses to the fullest. Unlike Fox, Falco is seen as the underdog in certain matchups, causing the bird to get a lot more appreciation.
** In ''Brawl'', he was significantly differentiated from Fox. He had some obnoxiously strong attributes, such as his lagless Blaster that could be fired twice in a short hop to control space and snuff approaches to a ridiculous degree, while having an easy chain throw that worked on nearly every character. He additionally had Falco Phantasm to quickly and safely get to the other side of the stage while hitting you and continuing to Blaster camp away. Falco's hatedom was mainly held back by other characters being even better with even more aggravating playstyles, as well as Falco having some pretty significant weaknesses, such as difficulty [=KOing=], a poor punish game, Falco being heavily vulnerable to chain throws himself, and awful recovery.
** His ''Smash 4'' appearance handed him some heavy nerfs. Falco was even slower on the ground than he was in ''Brawl'', as well as having some startup lag on his down-air. He would get buffed significantly in multiple patches, but many players still treated him as a low-tier character as he wasn't given back the powerful abilities that made him top tier in prior games. His playerbase remained small despite past popularity, due to a lack of players showing off his improvements or optimizing his metagame.

* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheBindingBlade Roy]]''' has this in spades. Not only he's a BaseBreakingCharacter in his origin game, ''The Binding Blade'', but he has also had a very bumpy run throughout ''Smash''.

** His ''Melee'' iteration had his floaws exacerbated by the game's engine; while he has a slew of powerful moves that can easily KO opponents, he has one of the worst approaches in the game due to his slow overall speed, and is the only character who cannot L-cancel all of his aerials. Despite his light weight, Mr. Game & Watch is shockingly easy to combo, juggle, and KO due to a poor combination of said weight, low falling speed, and high hitstun. Furthermore, Mr. Game & Watch has the single worst shield in the game, as it fails to completely cover his body even at full health, making it easy to poke him.

** ''Ultimate'' had Game & Watch as a high-tier with his small hitbox, insane damage capabilities, and powerful smash attacks that have great utility. However, the most hated part about him is his up-special, Fire. Not only does it come out lightning-fast, it also possesses a hitbox, provides invincibility during ascent, functions as a combo starter, and Mr. Game & Watch is still capable of using aerials once the parachute deploys. While he does have some weaknesses,the two-dimensional terror is not a character to be slept on in bracket.

** His transition to ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' didn't have the same luck. Due to the release of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'', Pit's moveset was heavily altered to be more unique. Unfortunately, the nerf hammer dropped hard on Pit in the process, with many of his moves dealing less damage and possessing shorter durations and smaller hitboxes that [[HitboxDissonance don't fit their animations and[=/=]or leave blindspots]], his recovery becoming much worse, and his Palutena Bow arrows becoming weaker. Even in spite of his numerous buffs, none of them compensated for the nerfs. While Pit's reputation was positive on release, it became worse over time, and Pit would be decried for being an "honest" character, with [[BoringButPractical no real strengths or weaknesses over the rest of the cast]] save for a still respectable recovery.

** When the Trainer returned in ''Ultimate'', the stamina and type mechancics were removed, and switching was made much quicker. This [[GoneHorriblyRight went a bit too well]], and the character has shot up to the top tier]. Squirtle's weight may be low, but its advantage state is a force to be reckoned with with its great combo ability, including some potent throws and an excellent forward tilt to start them. Charizard is a powerhouse with strong aerials which can easily secure a KO, and Flare Blitz can KO at very low percents. However, Ivysaur is easily the most useful Pokemon of the three, with multiple spacing tools such as its neutral air, projectile side special, and its up special at its disposal. The Trainer's popularity (with the female Trainer in particular being an [[BadassAdorable adorable]] and endearing [[EnsembleDarkhorse fan-favorite fighter]]) and steep learning curve has made them more of a tier-induced base-breaker. Most players therefore consider the Trainer's highly regarded status in competitive play to not be a bad thing.

** WHen he came in for ''Brawl'', Sonic had incredible mobility, including the fastest run speed (to no one's shock). Sonic's [[SignatureMove Spin Dash]] and [[ChargedAttack Spin Charge]] give him great approaches, and his recovery was also really good. Combine that with effective throws, and Sonic has a moveset designed for a VictoryByEndurance through DeathOfAThousandCuts. However, Sonic's hitboxes are overall poor, and a lack of reliable KO and edgeguarding options makes it ''really'' hard for him to close out a stock. His lack of a true projectile also makes him reliant on hit-and-run tactics. These issues ultimately near-cripple Sonic's moveset, to the point he had to adapt a very patient playstyle. He was the victim of many derogatory jokes for ''Brawl'', often labeled as a boring character who could only stall to win matches. Sonic would later rise to be a stable mid-tier character in the late parts of the game's lifespan, but it was never enough to erase the negative opinion players had of him.

** In ''Smash 4'', King Dedede was largely nerfed and became one of the worst characters in the game. With his old back aerial replaced with a new much less effective one alongside a nerfed grab range (formerly two of his greatest assets), the loss of chain grabbing (formerly one of his greatest strengths ''and'' weaknesses), and very bad frame data, Dedede is left as a sluggish, underpowered character with the worst neutral game in ''[=SSB4=]'' and a limited number of KO options.This leaves him as possibly the worst heavyweight in the game; while he was ranked better in Japan, it wasn't that much better.

** In ''Smash 4'', Corrin had an interesting and very powerful toolkit with a strong ground-to-aerial game with their tilts, very strong and long-ranged smash attacks, and a three-stage projectile in Dragon Fang Shot that could stun opponents and allow follow-up. However, the two traits of Corrin that are linked to their "high-tier scrappyhood" is their Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge specials. Dragon Lunge, Corrin's side special, is a very powerful, quick move that not only could KO opponents early if tipped, but also could "pin" for a follow-up. And Dragon Surge is the best counter in the game, launching people straight up instead of to the side, making it a good combo starter. This results in a special-heavy game, but one that's pretty predictable. As time passed, Corrin's top tier status fell, thanks to the identification of their main weaknesses, such as their sub-par recovery and lack of follow-ups off of grabs, which has helped Corrin alleviate some of their high-tier scrappy status.

** Initially in ''Smash 4'', Shulk was seen as one of the worst characters despite his Monado Arts' [[StanceSystem stat-change mechanic]], as he had the overall slowest and laggiest attacks in the game (with the Monado's immense range failing to properly compensate for this). Then the 1.0.4 patch gave Shulk a really large buff, improving the damage output/knockback on nearly all his moves, his hitbox issues being fixed, and some of his moves being made less laggy. This resulted in Shulk's perception shooting up, and some even seeing him as a potential high-tier character in the hands of someone who mastered him. As time went on however, very few Shulk players did well in tournaments despite his ample playerbase, and many players realized the potential of the Monado and of his advanced techniques were overrated. As a result, Shulk slipped back into the mid tiers, and stayed there.
** As of ''Ultimate'', Shulk's issues have been addressed by removing even more of his sluggishness. His impressive attack range has been maintained, and as such is harder to challenge. His most significant buff, however, is having a faster way to reach each of his Monado Arts through a RingMenu instead of just cycling through them, alongside the arts themselves giving him greater [[MultiformBalance boosts (and penalties) to his stats]]. The stronger utility of his Shield Art, combined with his LagCancel advanced technique, "[[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Dial_Storage Dial Storage]]", have allowed Shulk access to additional options, follow-ups, and punishes with his attacks and Monado Arts that no other character in ''Ultimate'' is capable of. It has gotten to the point that some have accused anyone that uses Shulk of cheating, as they question whether Shulk even plays the same game as the rest of the cast. This concern isn't universal, however, as he remains a rare character to find in big tournaments, let alone consistently achieve high results in them by his playerbase.

** His ''Ultimate'' appearance fixed most of his biggest problems, such as his mediocre moves receiving increases in either power or utility, though the most significant buff Pac-Man received was making his grab a single continuous grabbox for as long as the Galaga tractor beam is out. Overall, Pac-Man's moveset is now much more fitting for ''Ultimate''’s fast-paced nature, granting him good options up close in addition to his already-bountiful tools for zoning. All of the changes make Pac-Man a much more formidable fighter, finally giving him the [[DifficultButAwesome vast reward that is typical for a character of his technical caliber]].

** In ''Smash 4'', her entire moveset one of the laggiest in the game, and the way her [[StanceSystem custom moves]] were balanced around her was disastrous. To boot, her default special moveset was considered very uncohesive, featuring not only very laggy moves, but also limited utility across all of them, with both her reflector and counter unanimously considered the worst of their kind. Her entire grounded moveset was also a contender for being the worst in the game, notorious for being incredibly sluggish and lacking in strength and utility. All of this meant that even a minimal slip-up from her could be very costly. Finally, while she could still be significantly improved with her custom moves, the [[BrokenBase disdain for the community about custom moves in general]] was so strong, they were dropped off soon after; combined with the already high limitations to [[ScrappyMechanic character customization]] in the game's modes, this ended up leaving Palutena in limbo. Game updates brought a few buffs to her, but while her results as a vanilla character improved quite a good amount, they were not enough to fix her immense design flaws. Thus, to the end of the game's lifespan, Palutena was widely considered as not only an [[SquishyWizard awkward]] low tier character and [[MemeticLoser the butt of much derogation among the community]], but also [[GoneHorriblyWrong one of the most abysmally-designed characters]] in any ''Smash'' game.

* '''[[Franchise/DonkeyKong King K. Rool]]''' is a very peculiar case of this. He's a typical MightyGlacier SkillGateCharacter, but with both some unique strengths and weaknesses. He's got a counter that can reflect projectiles, has his own projectiles, he's the heaviest character, possesses super armor on his stomach when using several of his moves, has attacks with pretty decent range, ''really'' good vertical recovery, and an easy edgeguard tool with his Blunderbuss. His weaknesses, however, start weighing in the more you get used to him; the super armor on his belly breaks and leaves him stunned, most of his fastest attacks have hefty endlag, his crown toss projectile can be used against him, his reflector counter loses to other reflectors, he has bad ground and air speed, one of the biggest hitboxes of all the fighters, and a weak combo game. Despite all of this, with online input delays factored in, K. Rool players online are able to exploit his range, projectiles and burying tools more often, making him a force to be reckoned with. It seemed likely that he would have been unable to leave bottom tier without significant changes. However, the 6.0.0 patch would grant him some buffs that alleviated some of his bigger issues, namely by making his neutral aerial safe on shield, Blunderbuss being faster and stronger, as well as his up aerial being a more reliable killing option. Patch 8.0.0 would also improve K. Rool further, notably making his belly armor take more damage before it broke. King K. Rool fares much better now compared to release, and current consensus on the croc seems to be that while he still has serious core issues that limit his effectiveness, he can get the job done under the right circumstances.

* '''[[Franchise/StreetFighter Ryu]]''' is another peculiar case. Although he can get many more combos going thanks to the significantly improved "[[LagCancel special cancel]]" options he has, it's generally agreed his overall punish game has been deceptively watered down since his first appearance in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''. And with Ken joining as well, it was shown that anything Ryu does, Ken can usually do it better. The release of [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry Bogard]] only made this worse, Terry is even better than that, often to the point where both these old [[VideoGame/SNKVsCapcom cross-company rivals]] enjoy more success with fans overall than Ryu. Some players found that Ryu has his own merits against heavies and zoners, but not enough to really make him better than a mid-tier.
* ''' Luigi''' has an ''Ultimate'' incarnation is his most polarizing to date. His quick grab being replaced with a tether that did not serve as a recoverys, and Luigi Cyclone rising far less, dealing a heavy blow to his recovery and making him far more vulnerable to gimps. In practice however, his new grab gave Luigi a grab aerial that functions as a combo starter, Luigi Cyclone now serves as a useful ComboBreaker thanks to its invincibility frames, and his potent combo starters, extenders, and finishers means he has ways to combo into his Super Jump Punch easily. He's usually assessed as a mid-tier character, as despite his incredibly explosive damage output, Luigi is highly susceptible to getting walled out by projectiles and/or platform camped due the opponent being unwilling to risk an interaction with Luigi, while his recovery is laughably easy to gimp should he lose his jump offstage. Regardless, Luigi is a character many dread fighting, as being grabbed by him even once can result in the opponent being thrown into a world of hurt.

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Piranha Plant]]''' has awkward-to-use specials and lower frame data compared to other characters. However, the Plant received many buffs over time, such as making a number of its moves more reliable as KO moves, improving the frame data of a number of its moves, and giving its specials more utility. However, it's a combo magnet as a heavyweight, and using its specials to maximum effect requires mastering the timing of when to use them. While the Plant is nowhere near being a top-tier character due to some flaws that are simply there by design, it's generally considered to no longer be anywhere near bottom-tier like it was upon its debut in the game either,.

These characters are in rather unique situations, in that they used to be high-tier but became low-tier, or vice versa. Any character's strengths, weaknesses, and tier placement tends to change from game to game. But there are a few standout examples who had the greatest shift in tier placement over time.
* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]]''', Nintendo's mascot and the formerly-trope-naming JackOfAllStats, is frequently hit with this trope, on both sides too.
** In the first two ''Smash Bros.'' games, Mario's build tended to perfectly rank him as average at best. Best exemplified in ''64''; the former has him have a bevvy of good moves and attributes, but none of them standing out too much from the cast, typical of a jack-of-all-stats. He transitioned to ''Melee'' neither strongly buffed nor strongly nerfed, but a good portion of the characters around him did get buffed, and some strong newcomers came to the fray as well (this is especially disappointing since Dr. Mario is considered stronger and borderline viable competitively due to his higher air speed and stronger moves).
** Then ''Brawl'' came, and Mario was nerfed. Despite trying to be the iconic well-rounded {{shotoclone}} of the game, he was hurt by ''Brawl''[='=]s engine. Unlike other characters, he didn't receive any real significant nerfs compared to his ''Melee'' self, though what few nerfs he got were enough to give this perception; namely, his combo ability from previous games was gone due to the ''Brawl'''s floatiness and [[ScrappyMechanic anti-combo engine]]. With many of the newcomers being highly effective and many characters from ''Melee'' being buffed, Mario ended up being a straight-up MasterOfNone, with a hard time racking up damage, an even harder time scoring [=KOs=] due to a lack of a reliable finisher (as well as having few moves that could KO) and most of his attacks being weak, and his range and speed are unimpressive considering the game's campy and patient nature. All of this amounted to him being considered a low tier character, languishing there for the game's lifespan up to its very end.
** In ''Smash 4'', however, Mario would be rebalanced, with some additional buffs to his kill power to balance him out: his combo game is one of the best, with more reliable combo starters, easily chainable up tilts and up airs, and an overall fast moveset that makes him VERY hard to punish, allowing him to abuse otherwise unsafe moves. This also extends to his finishing moves, with his up smash in particular being one of the best in the game with its wide coverage, high speed and power, and priority. As Nintendo's and ''Smash'''s flagship character, Mario was supposedly designed to be beginner-friendly, but players argue that said buffs in his transition from ''Brawl'' worked [[GoneHorriblyRight a little]] ''[[GoneHorriblyRight too]]'' [[GoneHorriblyRight well]]. In short, they resulted in Mario indeed having the lowest learning curve of any character in the game bar Cloud, but providing very high reward for very little effort, thanks to the strengths above, plus a decently impressive mobility, useful zoning tools in his Fireballs and [=F.L.U.D.D.=], a reliable edgeguarding tool and reflector in his Cape, and a recovery just good enough. As a result, many characters have a hard time fighting even inexperienced Marios, which gets on players' nerves and is made worse for some by his dopey design and tendency to yell "Hoooooooo... HAH!" for ''all three'' of his victory poses (unlike in ''64'' and ''Melee''). Not helping is the fact that he was barely touched in most balance patches, which [[EpilepticTrees has led some players to believe that]] [[PurposelyOverpowered Mario was made, and left as, one of the best characters in the game out of favoritism or pity, rather than for accessibility]]. While initially perceived as high-mid tier at best, Mario shot up the ranks like a shooting star during the latter half of 2015 and his viability would peak in 2016, after his best player, Ally, won several major tournaments that year with him, and Mario was sometimes argued to potentially be a top 5 character, which has begun to place him more firmly into this trope and raise a new round of "mascot favoritism" accusations. However, with the advent of Bayonetta and Cloud and the introduction of other difficult matchups like Corrin and the substantially buffed Marth/Lucina, alongside the results of top Mario players declining, Mario is once again viewed as one of the more favorable top tiers at top-level play, though while few think of him as a top 5 character anymore, he remained a nuisance in low and mid-level play.
** Finally, his ''Ultimate'' incarnation is in the high-tier end of the spectrum again. Mario's transition into this game brought a healthy mix of buffs and nerfs, which while nerfing some aspects of him, leave his core playstyle intact once again due to the buffs addressing whatever could be unfavorable for him. As a result, Mario's traits remain as consistent as before, and he still has a good deal of top players using him to great success, like young smashers Dark Wizzy and Prodigy. Thus, Mario's perception is once again that of a top-tier character with a low learning curve that still provides an incredible reward with low risk, and the nerfs to his fellow top-tier matchups seem to be clearing the way for him to, once again, shoot up the ranks like a shooting star. That said, while he's still a character many resignate to fight against, Mario hasn't received nearly as much hate as in ''Smash 4'' from the crowd, mainly for being slightly less dominant and for having a more fun and less repetitive (read: up tilt spam) playstyle.
* Even Creator/MasahiroSakurai's own character, '''Franchise/{{Kirby}}''', has been hit with this trope as well. Kirby has always been known for being one of the easiest characetsr to pick up and play, as well having the unique ability to [[PowerCopying copy special moves]] thanks to Inhale, and he is also infamous among lower-leveled players thanks to his multiple ways to cheese out stocks. However, when it comes to competitive play, the pink puffball has also had a very tumultuous history across the series.
** In ''Smash 64'', he is considered the second-best character in the game, and is notorious for his very fast and [[HitboxDissonance massively disjointed]] up tilt that shuts down most approaches, while easily comboing into itself and other moves. Not only that, he also has nasty range on several of his kick-based moves, and has one of the best horizontal air speeds in the game. Kirby is additionally perceived to be one of the game's "easiest" characters to play, which makes some players dislike him and those who play him even more. Like Pikachu, Kirby is also lightweight, so Kirby mains should take care against the likes of Fox or Captain Falcon.
** In ''Melee'' he was severely nerfed, and was turned into a MasterOfNone, having awful approach options, the lack of an effective projectile without [[PowerCopying copying one from Inhale]], terrible mobility all around, and generally being poor-to-mediocre in every relevant area; as a heavy nerf from ''64'' to ''Melee'', even his recovery that's supposed to be good is pretty poor because of how easy it is to edgeguard, and due to his greatly decreased horizontal aerial movement (but then again, his infamous combo tools like his up tilt were very broken in ''64'', but sadly were nerfed almost too heavily in ''Melee''). He also has two of the worst throws in ''Smash'' history with his forward and back throws, which look like they might be decent suicide kills, but are rendered completely useless by the simple fact that you can ''effortlessly escape it with a simple jump''. This leads Kirby to have generally abysmal matchups against everyone else, and a complete lack of any tournament success. His powerful new up aerial and his new Hammer move would not be enough for him to compensate, either.
** In ''Brawl'', Kirby got some serious buffs that thankfully addressed whatever would be wrong with him. Kirby has one of the strongest combo abilities in ''Brawl'' (which is especially notable since the game is well-known for its anti-combo engine), as well as a strong grab game thanks to a grab with good range and a throw that can even KO (which until ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' was a rarity to have). Kirby also retained some of his signature traits from the previous games, such as a fast frame data, noticeably disjointed reach on his attacks, one of the better edge-guarding capabilities and a long distanced recovery, which was also made safer thanks to the slower engine and changes to air dodges. However, Kirby still retains his other weaknesses such as being light and having poor momentum canceling abilities (the latter point of which make or break a character), and a susceptibility to camping due to his slow mobility and lack of a true projectile unless he Inhales one. Additionally, despite his fast and powerful moves like his forward smash and back air, the staling mechanics of this game made spamming them a no-go. Nevertheless, the pink puffball has seen much more success than previously thanks to players like [=ChuDat=] (who is most well-known for his excellency with Ice Climbers in ''Melee'' but also played ''Brawl''), and Kirby was, for a time, considered high tier, until settling down into a perennial yet still very stable mid-tier character.
** In ''Smash 4'', Kirby plays similarly to in ''Brawl'', but was nerfed. Although he retains his strengths such as his fast attacks for naturally-flowing combos, a long-distanced recovery, a small size that makes him difficult to hit, especially while crouching, and flexible and efficient KO options, his nerfs made his hitboxes smaller, reduced the damage he could deal, and further pronounced his weaknesses, such as his inability to approach, lack of a projectile, and his poor mobility. Game updates did buff Kirby, improving his strengths as well as alleviating his poor mobility, but none of them were enough to improve his standing. One notable exception where he saw success was at Frostbite 2017, where top player and Mario main Ally was upsetted by Komota, a Kirby main, early in pools. Outside of such glimpses of success, however, Kirby is widely considered to be low tier, although fortunately not to the degree of ''Melee''.
** In ''Ultimate'', Kirby at launch stood out as a reward-absent character, somehow managing to be nerfed even further from his previous iteration. He struggles with neutral in that he had little to no options of rewarding stage control, and indirectly allowing combos, on a character that has poor range and has to work extremely hard to get in. His throws were also nerfed in KO power and utility, most notably forward throw being near-useless under low platforms like in Battlefield. The game's engine also exacerbated his poor aerial physics, with his long distanced recovery being overshadowed by his slow air speed, the changes to air dodges, and slow-to-start aerials bar back air. This culminated into a character that had little to no cohesiveness from getting rewarded for using his toolkit, making him feel broken (and not in [[GameBreaker that]] way). Even the most renowned of Kirby mains bailed on him, warning other players to simply avoid Kirby. Fortunately, Kirby has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of ''Ultimate''[='=]s updates (receiving changes in 2.0.0, 3.0.0, 6.0.0 and 8.0.0), helping him finally regain much-needed reward and cohesiveness in his kit; his forward tilt's new knockback made it better for granting stage control and can even KO, his up smash became stronger even on sourspot, his Inhale became MUCH faster and the Copy Abilities were made very durable compared to launch, his jab became tied for being the second fastest in the game (at a blinding frame 2), and his neutral and up aerials were buffed in strength and speed. All of this finally patched a multitude of massive holes in Kirby's plans. It was not long after the buffs that Kirby soon gained his first relevant placing at a PGR event, getting 17th at Umebura SP 7 thanks to Ferretkuma, beating even key top players along the way. Outside of this, he also still has representation by players such as Jejajeja, [=JesuisChoq=], RK, and Komota. Unfortunately, as of the final DLC and the end of the "online era" due to the Covid-19 pandemic, Kirby has once again gotten lackluster results, with notably no Kirby appearing at any of the 2021 supermajors post-pandemic. While he is considered to be a much better, more cohesive, and most importantly, an entertaining and rewarding character to play as, Kirby still remains in the lower parts of the tier list and some of the aforementioned problems remain unfixed for now.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{EarthBound}} Ness]]''', the very kid that put an end to an EldritchAbomination considered to be an incarnation of pure evil, has also had one of the bumpiest runs out of anyone in the series' history, being infamous as both a low tier and a high tier to the point he ''could'' be considered the TropeCodifier, at least for this franchise. Regarding individual games...
** In the earlier days of ''Smash 64''[='=]s competitive play, he was considered the third-best after the Pikachu and Kirby, and thought to have a combo game that approached GameBreaker levels (especially with his nasty double jump cancel and surprisingly strong attacks). As the metagame advanced, however, players learned to really take advantage of Ness' easily exploited recovery, and their superior spacing made Ness' lack of reach on his attacks much more apparent. The result is plummeting to being perceived as one of the game's weaker characters as the 3rd worst, eliminating this perception. However, a few less-experienced players do still come along who view Ness as too strong, as they had yet to learn how to exploit Ness' flaws. [[note]]He was also significantly stronger in the original Japanese version, where he's still 5th.[[/note]]
** Ness' worst tier ranking came in ''Melee'', where he was hit with some major nerfs, most notably with his down aerial having added startup time and the distance of his recovery being drastically reduced in exchange for being easier to use, and his recovery and range was still as exploitable as ever, putting him at 4th from the bottom. Outside of occasional use as a sandbagging or desperate secondary by Melee god "Hungrybox", he's never seen play at Melee's highest levels.
** In ''Brawl'', while significantly higher on the list due to the floatier engine playing well to his strong air game and his recovery getting buffed as a kill move, Ness was still seen as lower mid-tier at best due to his recovery and range weaknesses persisting and 10 additional frames of grab release than most that left him vulnerable to infinite chain grabs against certain matchups. In spite of a decent matchup against one of the metagame's biggest terrors in Olimar (though how good it was is up for debate), he saw little competitive play in this game once again.
** In ''Smash 4'', Ness finally rose back into meta relevance. Ness is one of the most polarized characters in the game, with his strengths and weaknesses both being huge. His throw game is really strong, due to a reliable combo-starting downthrow and the indisputable best backthrow in the game for killing. He also has really good aerials, especially his fast and powerful up-air and combo-friendly foward-air. And his improved viablity allowed his already strong PK Thunder to become a serious annoyance to opponents stuck in the air. However, Ness' past weaknesses still held him back significantly. His poor range ensured a lot of difficulty against sword-characters. His recovery, while buffed significantly so that merely taking the hit immediately after it appears no longer interrupts it, was still very exploitable, especially if the opponent can absorb it, ensuring Ness' recovery remained among the weaker in the game. Thus while improved, he was stuck as a classic mid-tier SkillGateCharacter: annoying to more casual players, but with limited success at the competitive level.
** In ''Ultimate'', despite Ness's down throw getting nerfed into no longer being as reliable of a combo starter, overall consensus is that this game has his best incarnation yet. His PK Fire got buffed and can rack up insane damage and can grab players and go to town on them. His up air, at the cost of knockback and multi-hit unreliability, has faster startup and great combo potential. His yo-yo smash attacks had their charging hitboxes restored, and can now even be used off the edge to score some easy kills. Also, he majorly benefits from having one of the best directional air dodges in the game, vastly improving his recovery. Furthermore, his PK Thunder has become even more annoying, as the changes to air dodges make it even harder to avoid. Also, his Down-Special PSI Magnet was buffed so that it now has a hitbox that can guarantee follow-ups on hit, including a kill-confirm into back-air. Combine all this with the lag Online and Ness became an absolute pain to deal with. Competitively, his worst matchups continue to be against characters who outrange him, such as most of the Sword characters, or who beat his aerials with their own and edgeguard him. Ness still has his weaknesses, but overall, due to his already established infamy in the casual scene combined with him actually posing a serious threat in bracket, Ness is now a widely hated character to fight regardless of skill level.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Jigglypuff]]''' has had one of the bumpiest runs through the tier lists in the series; she's been a high-tier, a low-tier, and everything in-between.
** In ''64'', it is considered a mid tier. Thanks to its floaty attributes and its many low knockback attacks, Jigglypuff can abuse them to its advantage in several combos that literally carry the opponent all the way to the lateral blast lines; the generally weak recoveries in this game only add to this. It also has some moves with disproportionate power, like its up smash, back throw, and the famous [[DeathOrGloryAttack Rest]]. However, Jigglypuff is so light and floaty, it is very easy to KO. Not to mention the sheer {{irony}} of being one of the only two characters to lack a rising up special move for recovery (a trait that has clinged on to Jigglypuff for several games and counting), forcing it to rely on its midair jumps and Pound to recover. However, general consensus is that Jigglypuff stands in a favorable spot in the metagame.
** A bit after ''Brawl'''s release, with the advent of pro Puff players [=MaNg0=] and later Hungrybox emerging to dominate ''Melee'' tournaments, Jigglypuff became the competitive community's most detested character. In short, Jigglypuff is the antithesis of what players like about ''Melee''; being extremely floaty, relying on walling opponents out and camping rather than on aggressive flashy offense, not having many exciting combos while being the hardest character to combo itself, an amazing recovery that is difficult to edgeguard and gimp, making little use of the game's advanced techniques, having Rest to get a near-instant OneHitKO on just about anyone, and being overall an even less technical character than the aforementioned Sheik. With [=MaNg0=] dropping Puff for the space animals and Hungrybox continuing to exploit what players hated most about Puff on route to many national wins, Hungrybox would become the game's most disliked professional player in the early 2010s. The pinnacle of this would be the grand finals of Apex 2012's ''Melee'' tournament, where Hungrybox's Jigglypuff fought Armada's Peach/Young Link in a nearly hour-long set, with all their games almost or outright going to time as they carefully camped each other out, in a game whose fanbase vastly prefer fast offensive matches that end quickly. Needless to say, even though Hungrybox lost at the end, it was seen as a disaster by the ''Melee'' community. The outrage over Puff would cool down over a few years, as Hungrybox started winning a lot less tournaments as Fox ended up proving a rather hard counter to Puff, while there remained barely any notable Jigglypuff players outside Hungrybox, despite Hungrybox himself becoming one of the game's most charismatic and revered players. While player hatred towards Jigglypuff and its playerbase died down, they still vastly prefer the rest of the game's top/high tiers, and outrage against Puff still tends to flare up whenever Hungrybox wins a major tournament. However, with Hungrybox being ''Melee''[='=]s number one player since 2017, anger towards Jigglypuff and Hungrybox has been building up to vicious new heights, to the point that [[SeriousBusiness one particularly disgruntled person]] [[ProducePelting threw a crab]] [[SeriousBusiness at Hungrybox after he won Pound 2019]].
** In ''Brawl'', Jigglypuff was transitioned from high tier to low tier scrappy. It got some of the heaviest nerfs in the game (most notably to Rest, which [=KOs=] about 50% later and is much more difficult to land), alongside adapting terribly to the new engine. Jigglypuff has been ranked a bottom-tier character since the game's release, with perhaps the smallest playerbase of any character in ''Brawl''. There was even some players who thought it was the actual worst character in the game instead of Ganondorf (which the Japanese thought so as they ranked it as the worst in their tier list).
** ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' became Jigglypuff's worst tier ranking to date. It got some helpful buffs in the transition, like a larger and stronger hitbox on Rest, and hitstun cancelling being severely nerfed, leading to Jigglypuff initially being theorized to be a better character; some time later, however, the Puff would be agreed to actually wound up as nerfed overall in the transition. Plus, being the lightest character in a game where the [[ComebackMechanic rage mechanic]] exists, and being the slowest character in the game on the ground, the problems against this character simply stacked as the meta developed, landing it in low tier once again. It has one of the worst set of ground moves in the game, with decent frame data all-around and good utility around them, but barely any reach on almost all of them. However, its aerial attacks, while good, aren't that great either, with their reach not being much better than its ground attacks, and being weak or ineffective when they do hit outside its powerful back aerial, which instead has below-average startup speed. This leaves it very likely to get smacked with trades that are almost always unfavorable to it, and forcing it to abuse its fast air speed as the only way to safely go in and out. Its grab game is additionally terrible, possessing the second shortest grabbing reach in the game (as only ''R.O.B.'' has a shorter grab), with no setup throws nor any throws with remotely decent knockback. And while Rest is a viable trump card again with its buffs, it still has little setups into it, and due to characters being able to get KO'd normally off the top instead of being Star[=/=]Screen KO'd, there's a significant chance that it will get punished and KO'd itself if it kills an opponent who wasn't on their last stock with it. The worst part about the character, however, is that it has received ''no direct changes'' within the many patches, except for a glitch with Rollout being fixed in the first patch, leaving it in the dust as the power of other lower tier characters creeped up while it remained in its same, weakened state. It is almost unanimously noted as being the worst character in the game, and ranked as the worst character on the current Smashboards tier list, though it does has a few defenders that argue its viability is not as dreadful as it's made out to be, with decent matchups against some of the higher tier characters.
** After two games of being an afterthought in competitive play, Jigglypuff has begun to make a big comeback in ''Ultimate''. Most notably, the game's physics have made its life much easier thanks to air dodges being much worse and thus finally ''restoring'' its long-lost edgeguarding game from ''Melee'', whereas the nerfs to rage have boosted its survivability. This only became more apparent after updates 6.0.0 and 13.0.0. The former patch increased the hitstun of Pound and decreased the ending lag of down aerial, with the result being that Jigglypuff now has ''multiple'' ways to combo into Rest and even loop its down aerial into ''itself''; the latter patch breathed new life in Jigglypuff's grounded kit, as its neutral attack's second hit has much less endlag, granting it new hit confirms and even a KO setup into its back air (which was also buffed to be faster and safer while landing). Overall, both patches have given Jigglypuff a massive boost in damage and [=KO=] potential. However, it is still very light, and Rest will still screw Jigglypuff over if it doesn't kill. It's still very difficult for the Puff to get in against sword-fighters which is its prime weakness, but general consensus is while the Puff isn't quite to the level it was in ''Melee'', it has improved significantly from its previous two appearances.
* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Bowser]]''' was initially the series' staple lumbering MightyGlacier since ''Melee'', and was initially treated/mocked as such, but his evolution over the games has caused him to slowly be feared instead:
** ''Melee'' made him the quintessential MightyGlacier, with not much speed to go with his huge size, heavy weight and extreme power. Since the metagame would evolve, his agonizingly slow speed and high weight would become more and more noticeable, making him pure combo bait in a game all about speed and combos. Although Bowser does have a few advantages such his famously reliable "up B out of shield" (Whirling Fortress, a powerful frame 6 option that allows Bowser to catch laggy moves that hit his shield and get them off Bowser) and the absolute best ledge getup attack in the game, they didn't compensate at all for how noticeable his weaknesses are, so the result was still a character considered one of the worst characters in the game since its release.
** ''Brawl'' improved Bowser, by giving him significantly greater mobility and faster attacks with greater reach in exchange for slightly less power, an improved recovery, as well as the game's different playstyle being more favorable for Bowser. However, after the first year of the game's life, he plummeted through the tier lists to being right back in low tier, for many of the same reasons as in ''Melee''; additionally, his extreme vulnerability to the game's many powerful chain throws have ensured he won't be going up again anytime soon.
** His ''Smash 4'' incarnation's perception has got a wildly inconsistent perception, but has fared much better overall. Bowser was been made even faster than his ''Brawl'' self while having even more power than his ''Melee'' self, with a further buffed recovery, a bunch of new more effective attacks, and newly introduced [[ImmuneToFlinching armor]] (referred to as "Tough Guy") that lets him tank attacks that deal low knockback; this is on top of the newly added rage mechanic significantly benefiting hard-hitting characters that can live a long time like him, and the complete elimination of chain throws. Further adding to this is the game's noticeably frailer shields, making his moves much tougher to block and even causing his previously unreliable Bowser Bomb to now break even full shields in one hit when used. At first it worked, with many players thinking Bowser had the potential to be the best character in the game after seeing extensive demo footage, and Bowser was considered high, if not top, tier shortly after the game's release by the general playerbase. Then the first game update (1.0.4) came and significantly changed the new vectoring mechanic[[note]]Putting it shortly: previously, any attack could be influenced directionally to the opposite side of attack's angle to allow a character to live longer, but the 1.0.4 update changed it so that this is not possible for mainly vertical attacks anymore, (namely those that send at 65° to 115°)[[/note]], which in turn provided a significant indirect nerf to Bowser. The general playerbase [[SomeDexterityRequired becoming better]], and able to exploit Bowser's same old weaknesses like before, didn't help either. As a result, Bowser's reputation began plummeting much like in ''Brawl'', although he didn't completely drop to low tier, and lower-level players still enjoyed his new and improved moveset. Some time later, the 1.1.3 update gave Bowser a massive buff by turning his up throw into a reliable and highly infamous combo throw[[note]]1.1.4 altered it further by increasing its knockback, which set up into certain aerials earlier than before, but also made it harder to kill off of his up air[[/note]], allowing him to chain together his insanely hard-hitting moves off of it, and the result was not only the iconic Mighty Glacier of the franchise now being able to dish out damage a lot more reliably, but now rushing up into the high tiers once again! If characters could play campy and safe against him and avoid his approach with non-issue, they now ''had'' to do so, lest them getting repeatedly pelted with up throw combo after up throw combo, with a pinch of up B out of shield and his other strong throws to mix it up. Along with Donkey Kong, Bowser's up throw being beneficiary of improved combo potential was excellent enough to shoot him up into the high tiers, and with greater tournament results, this finally moved Bowser from his low tier rut, to the dismay of many and the acclaim of others.
** In ''Ultimate'', despite his up throw being nerfed to completely remove its kill confirms, Bowser was buffed ''immensely''. To start, not only was Bowser's "Tough Guy" armor buffed further from the previous game; additionally, the start of all his tilts and smash attacks have damage-based armor to boot, making challenging Bowser's moves terrifying considering their increased power. All of Bowser's specials were buffed greatly, with Fire Breath tacking on heavy damage (it is not uncommon for the move alone to do 30%+ or even 40%+ alone in one setting) when it connects and catches opponents, his Flying Slam command grab being a deadly combination of fast (frame 6, faster than his albeit longer normal grab) and strong, and Bowser Bomb being able to meteor smash opponents and [=KO=] opponents earlier when used normally. Bowser was one of, if not the biggest beneficiaries of the ''Ultimate'' engine change, as his run speed was increased well beyond other increases across the cast to the point where he outruns Marth and Inkling, who themselves are no slouches in the mobility department. The most notable change was that his jump animation went from the longest in the game to a measly 3 frames in line with the universal engine change, making his aerials incredibly strong and useful in battle, with less jump lag and landing lag. His out-of-shield options were buffed as a result of the engine, and this is on top of his Whirling Fortress already being an infamous move that catches any stray attack with no issue. To top it off, Bowser was made ''even heavier'' (from 130 units to a whopping 135), and in tandem with the aforementioned buffs made him a nightmare to KO outside of forcing him offstage, which is a task on its own. These buffs pretty much turned what was once the heaviest and most glacial character in ''Smash'' into a scary LightningBruiser, with so many options to choose from and many of them being reliable depending on the situation. This makes playing around Bowser in the usual ways much harder considering his increased speed can allow him to wreak havoc more easily. It's not unusual to see characters with powerful neutral games or excellent combo abilities (like [[FragileSpeedster Sheik]]) to [[HardWorkHardlyWorks see their hard work to keep Bowser out go to waste from even a single mistake that snowballs into a lost stock]]. As a result of this, matches with Bowser are often deemed as boring to watch, and for some time in early 2020, some players would start to call Bowser's playerbase as "carried" by their character. Regardless of player opinion, in the end, Bowser comfortably resides around the lower end of high tier, unlike his fellow former grappler Donkey Kong (who dropped to low-mid tier), and combined with a solid playerbase and very respectable results, it's not likely he'll be slowed down anytime soon.
* As a result of initially being a MovesetClone of Fox, '''[[VideoGame/StarFox Falco]]''' has become a notorious case throughout the games, almost as notorious as Fox. However, unlike Fox, he has been on both ends of the spectrum:
** In ''Melee'', he was initially seen as a zoning-style character that spammed Blaster shots to no end, but all of that changed when Japanese player Bombsoldier showed the rest of the world how aggressive and combo-heavy he could be. Ever since then, he has amassed quite a competitive fanbase, with many players being drawn to his potential for flashy combos. Some consider him to be better than Fox in terms of power, due to his aforementioned Blaster that causes hitstun, easier shine combos, and brutal finishers, particularly his down aerial (a powerful spike that can easily take stocks when properly connected). However, these traits also cause him to be loathed in some circles, particularly with the rise of ''Melee'' netplay. Falco tends to draw in people who want to emulate the Bombsoldier style for immediate reward, but don't have the fundamentals to play neutral properly. This has led to the rise of a horde of low-leveled online Falco players who are nothing more than an annoyance for more experienced players (who begin to associate Falco with poor play) but a newer player's worst nightmare, since they have the hardest time trying to play around his lasers, especially with netplay lag (and begin to think that Falco is broken because of them). On the other hand, there are players who still love the character and cheer him on at the highest levels, particularly in the modern metagame where everyone now knows how to abuse his weaknesses to the fullest. While he was considered to have no disadvantageous matchups long ago, modern Falco mains have struggled against Jigglypuff, Peach, and Marth in practice, and the only Falco main who has come close to consistently changing that narrative (PPMD) is on a hiatus. Thus, unlike Fox, he's seen as the underdog in certain matchups nowadays and cheered on because of that.
** In ''Brawl'', he was significantly differentiated from Fox in ways that were to his benefit, putting Falco among the perpetual top tiers, who was once considered the third-best character in the game. He had some obnoxiously strong attributes that made a lot of players dislike him, such as his lagless Blaster that could be fired twice in a short hop to control space and snuff approaches to a ridiculous degree (which was made worse by the slower worse mobility and weaker offense that made approaching difficult in Brawl), while having an easy chain throw that worked on nearly every character up to 40ish%. From there, once you get in the first 50% or so of your stock, it was forfeited once Falco grabbed you, and since he could finish it with an unavoidable down aerial meteor smash near the ledge, you could potentially die from it, especially as a character with a poor vertical recovery. He additionally had Falco Phantasm to quickly and safely get to the other side of the stage while hitting you and continuing to Blaster camp away. Falco's hatedom was mainly held back by other characters being even better with even more aggravating playstyles, as well as Falco having some pretty significant weaknesses, such as difficulty [=KOing=] and a poor punish game once you were beyond his chain throw percent, a very poor up special recovery that essentially meant death for him if he was forced to use it, and Falco being heavily vulnerable to chain throws himself.
** Then, his ''Smash 4'' appearance handed him some heavy nerfs that would now put him among the low tiers, and people reacted more harshly due to being used to his top-tier self. Falco was somewhat even slower on the ground than he was in ''Brawl'', as well as having some startup lag on his infamous down aerial. He would get buffed significantly in multiple patches, and more knowledgeable players started to see him as more of a mid-tier, but many players still treated him as low tier character as he wasn't given back the powerful abilities that made him top tier in prior games (such his past lagless and highly spammable Blaster). His playerbase remained small despite past popularity in prior games, not helped by Falco falling behind back into the lower tiers thanks to a lack of players showing off his improvements or optimizing his metagame.
** With ''Ultimate'', Falco would get a lot of major buffs to return him to being seen positively. His neutral game is much better than in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' (though not to the same degree as in ''Melee'' or ''Brawl''), with a much improved Blaster and better mobility, and his punishment capabilities are harsher due to improvements to his combo game, especially thanks to a vastly improved up tilt that could give Mario in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' a run for his money; these, combined with the returned air dodges from ''Melee'', have resulted in him being seen as dangerous in the right hands, however he still hasn't seen anywhere near as much representation or success as Fox. Update 8.0.0 improved on some of Falco's inconsistencies and gave him new improved options, such as his side special Falco Phantasm becoming a viable combo starter when used on the ground. General consensus on Falco nowadays is that he has improved, sitting at the bottom of high tier, and thanks to players such as Tilde showing off how monstruous his combos can be, Falco's spot in the metagame is widely seen as stable enough.
* '''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver Pichu]]''' has only appeared twice in the franchise, but to say that "it has had it rough" is quite the understatement.
** In ''Melee'', Pichu is the game's resident JokeCharacter, as a FragileSpeedster to [[ExaggeratedTrope its most logical extreme]] (particularly the "fragile" part). One of the fastest characters in the game, and the lightest as well, so the whole point of playing as it is to avoid taking damage while smacking your opponent. The problem is that [[StopHittingYourself almost half of its attacks hurt it for 1%-4% damage]], even its recovery/dodging special, which deals no damage to enemies. Being a very light character, a smash attack can KO it at less than 80% of damage in many situations. Tying into its smaller hitboxes which give it much less range on its attacks, Pichu is additionally nearly completely inferior clone to the fairly competent Pikachu, exemplifying its ineffectiveness even more. This is not only {{lampshade|Hanging}}d on [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Pichu_(SSBM)#Trophies its trophy descriptions]], but it was actually [[http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/24/meleepichusite/ confirmed]] by WordOfGod, so Pichu being a low-tier scrappy is actually {{enforced|Trope}}! On the flipside, however, in the hands of players who are very skilled with Pichu via purposely picking it as a handicap, its damage output is surprisingly quite high, with some solid kill moves in its forward smash and up smash, solid combo tools with its neutral aerial, up aerial, and all his throws; the latter also gives it a surprisingly good grab game.
** The previous appearance only turned out to be a one-time deal, as Pichu [[TookALevelInBadass wound up getting major]] [[BalanceBuff buffs]] in ''Ultimate'' which [[GoneHorriblyRight turned it from a]] FragileSpeedster JokeCharacter, [[GoneHorriblyRight into an egregious nightmare of a]] GlassCannon; its forward tilt, in particular, is seen as a really good edgeguarding tool that can be spammed for the cost of a little self-damage. The fact it has strong kill options on a character that can combo any character with safe moves makes it really deadly at high-level play. Its weaknesses remain mostly intact, and the recoil damage is lessened from ''Melee'', but it is still enough to ''help'' it get out of kill confirm percents, like Luigi's zero to death combo out of grab, and the rage mechanic makes it slowly boost its killing power every time it hurts itself. To top it all off, it has its own zero to death, combining its back air and up air in an inescapable combo; though, to be fair to Pichu, this combo is highly difficult. Its best player, [=VoiD=], managed to place first in one of the game's early major tournaments with Pichu alone, and over the next few months, people began to hate Pichu more and more for embodying and exaggerating all of the worst traits of most of the top-tiers: fast, mobile, a small hurtbox, and an all-or-nothing dynamic, turning it into an aggressive rushdown character who can [[RocketTagGameplay either dominate a stock (or even the entire match) or get KOed from one mistake]]. The release of the 3.1.0 update nerfed Pichu significantly by increasing its hurtbox size, weakening its forward tilt, and greatly augmenting the self-damage it takes (especially on the aforementioned forward tilt), creating a more volatile risk-reward factor that's difficult to maneuver at higher-leveled play. Ever since that patch, Pichu has fallen from top-tier and been supplanted by Pikachu; however, update 11.0.0 undid some of the nerfs to its recoil damage and made its neutral air safer by granting its ears intangibility, so it seems like Pichu might rise on the tier list once more. Overall, the greater rewards and ease of [=KOing=] opponents Pichu has, along with some moves being more effective than its evolved counterpart, continue to allow Pichu to be a high-tier threat in the meta.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemTheBindingBlade Roy]]''' has this in spades. Not only he's a BaseBreakingCharacter in his origin game, ''The Binding Blade'', but he has also had a very bumpy run throughout the franchise.
** In ''Melee'', Roy is one of the most infamous examples of "low-tier scrappy", almost as bad as Kirby. He is a [[MovesetClone clone]] of Marth whose design is the inverse of Marth; instead of having the need to space attacks on the tip of his sword, the sweetspot is at the base of his sword, meaning that he doesn't require careful spacing like Marth to be effective. However, Roy's design is absolutely abysmal on execution, as he has laggy attacks with horrendously weak sourspots, few KO moves, absolutely atrocious aerials, limited comboing capabilities, poor hitboxes, having physics that made him one of the most easily combo'd characters in ''Melee'', and also possessed arguably the worst recovery in the game. Those last two points combined with the fact that he is pretty light also give him possibly the worst overall survivability in ''Melee''. This alone would get him heavy derided by the competitive playerbase, but Roy is also a significantly inferior clone of Marth, one of the games's top tiers and overall most popular characters, and casual sentiment is especially favorable to him because of his few KO moves being easily spammed in casual play (especially his forward smash), which led to further dislike of Roy among competitive players. In fact, the great disparity between competitive and casual perception made Marth vs. Roy one of the most heated tier arguments in early ''Melee'', and Roy ended up a bit of symbol for "anti-tierists" to drive up the competitive dislike farther.
** While Roy didn't return in ''Brawl'', he came back in ''Smash 4'' as DLC, significantly decloned from Marth to boot and notably buffed in mobility, attack speed (now having frame data akin to non-sword characters) and power, making him a true LightningBruiser. He was initially seen as a high- or even top-tier character; however, he soon started to drop down to a "low-tier" view once again. Roy's attacks were noted to keep an overall unfavorable hitbox placement that made them hard to space, leading to him being punished by well-aware players, and the game's physics did no favors to him at all despite his improved ability to pressure. Meanwhile, there's Marth and Lucina later receiving huge buffs in updates that made them more viable competitively, whereas Roy's own buffs, while fairly useful, were not as significant. General consensus at the end of the game's lifespan was that Roy ended as a lower mid-tier character, as [[DifficultButAwesome his playstyle requires really smart decision-making and a lot of finesse on execution]] and doesn't achieve as much reward unless played as such, leading to his unpopularity despite notable players of him like Captain Levi.
** Finally, his ''Ultimate'' appearance seems to have ended the "low tier" view of him. Since launch, Roy was noted to have received excellent buffs, with Double-Edge Dance now capable of [=KOing=] the opponent early at the sweetspot, and his Flare Blade capable of turning around to hit unsuspecting opponents with a strong, often lethal blow. He also benefitted heavily from the game's universal changes, so while Roy still has the sweetspot at the base of his sword (meaning he doesn't require careful spacing like Marth to be effective, but can't afford to space well his attacks like his Echo Fighter Chrom), the significantly increased shieldstun on attack, his faster mobility and his lower landing lag make it a real hassle to get him off, and said sourspots are now links to the much stronger sweetspots at higher percentages. His fast frame data and mobility now properly compensate for his alleged shorter range, allowing Roy to rack damage fast, keep his aggression and advantage going, and KO at rather low percentages. Finally, he has a far safer recovery than Chrom, especially after patch 2.0.0. Initially, Roy's viability compared to Chrom [[BrokenBase was a topic of debate]], with some players claiming Roy is better due to his more explosive damage racking abilities off of a single conversion, despite his [[DifficultButAwesome higher learning curve]] and Chrom's higher consistency; over time, Roy eventually gained a more positive reception thanks to having that increased-damage potential and a more flexible recovery in disadvantage compared to Chrom. In the end, it is widely agreed that Roy is now the best he has ever been, so his future has shined unlike in the previous titles, and thanks to his character popularity courtesy of ''Smash'', he is more of a tier-induced base-breaker in this regard, so his ascent to the high tiers is usually welcomed.
* Being an homage to one of Nintendo's earliest consoles, '''[[UsefulNotes/GameAndWatch Mr. Game & Watch]]''' is quite an unusual character as a result of his unique 2D design, but several issues (ranging from being unfinished to his gameplay design doing no favors to him) have made his history across decades of competitive ''Smash'' tumultuous as a result of it.
** His ''Melee'' iteration was his worst one by far due to his flaws being exacerbated by the ''Melee'' engine; as while he has a slew of powerful moves that can easily KO opponents, he has one of the worst approaches in the game due to his slow overall speed, and he also has the dubious distinction of being the only character in the game who cannot L-cancel all of his aerials, which are already quite laggy to begin with. Despite his light weight, Mr. Game & Watch is shockingly easy to combo, juggle, and KO due to a poor combination of said weight, low falling speed, and ''Melee'''s high hitstun. Furthermore, Mr. Game & Watch has the single worst shield in the game, as it fails to completely cover his body even at full health, making it pathetically easy to poke him in neutral.
** ''Brawl'' gave Mr. Game & Watch a multitude of buffs, including a heavier weight (though still very light relative to the rest of the cast), significantly lower landing lag on all of his aerials (which was compounded by the removal of L-canceling), and his shield size being fixed to fully cover his body, immensely improving his defensive game. However, the most important thing for Mr. Game & Watch in ''Brawl'' were the slower and floatier physics compared to ''Melee'', which significantly reduced his vulnerability to combos, which was assisted with ''Brawl'''s much-maligned hitstun and momentum cancelling. Additionally, the two mechanics gave Mr. Game & Watch some of the best horizontal survivability in the game due to a technique called Bucket Braking, which was due to his down special, Oil Panic, negating all horizontal momentum when used. To add on, Mr. Game & Watch's kill moves are for the most part still incredibly powerful, the most notable ones being all three of his smash attacks, which while slow, are among the strongest of their kind in the game, killing opponents incredibly early while having shockingly low endlag. While not overwhelmingly strong due to his consistent weaknesses of light weight and poor range, resulting in him struggling against neutral-heavy characters such as Diddy Kong and the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch was able to secure respectable representation and results in ''Brawl'', and ranked 16th out of 38 characters, cementing him as an upper mid-tier character.
** His ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' incarnation, in a rare doubles example, became almost universally despised by players and fans alike. Two words describe the reasoning why: [[EnergyAbsorption Oil Panic]]. Between ''Brawl'' and ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', his down special received two critical buffs: it now can absorb explosions and the amount of units filled in the tank is now proportional to the absorbed projectile's damage. The end result was an arguable GameBreaker in Doubles that, in tandem with partners that could feed Game & Watch the projectiles necessary to fill the bucket, could break shields instantly and KO opponents at 0%. Many instances of Game and Watch teams resulted in 2/3 stock matches ending in under a minute and even 30 seconds, leaving players infuriated and fans frustrated because of how anti-climactic these clashes were in a meta that had only started to pick up in action. As a result, Game & Watch was either soft-banned or banned (whether altogether or with a specific partner) in Doubles and left to become one of the most infuriating characters in the competitive meta, almost on par with custom Villager. Fortunately, Oil Panic's power in Doubles has since been [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mr._Game_and_Watch_(SSB4)#Update_history significantly reduced as of patch 1.1.3]], which has ultimately removed him from the Scrappy status in Doubles. The same can't be said about his run in Singles, however, as despite the buffs to Oil Panic, Mr. Game & Watch was nerfed overall from ''Brawl'', with said nerfs being significant, and despite the efforts of players such as Regi, Maister and [=GimR=], he wound up ranked in the lower end of mid-tier.
** Despite initially being believed to be worse off compared to ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' (to the point where he was considered a bottom tier character on release), he later fell into high-tier territory in ''Ultimate''. What earns him the ire of many competitive players includes his small hitbox, insane damage racking capabilities thanks to having useful juggling tools in his neutral and up aerials, and quick, powerful smash attacks that have great utility (notably his up smash and down smash, the former possesses invincibility on Mr. Game & Watch's head and excellent power; while the latter has virtually no ending lag, its sweetspot hitbox buries grounded opponents for easy kill confirms into forward smash and is a strong vertical KO move on airborne opponents, and the sourspot even functions as a decently strong semi-spike, which is useful against characters that have weak horizontal recoveries). However, the most hated part about him is his up special: Fire. To wit, not only does it come out lightning-fast on ''frame 3'', making it a useful out of shield option, it also possesses a hitbox, provides ''invincibility'' during Mr. Game & Watch's ascent, functions as a combo starter, and to top it all off, Mr. Game & Watch is still capable of using aerials once the parachute deploys, allowing him to mix up his landing options and prevent characters from juggling him in ways that many other characters cannot; these factors have led to Fire being widely considered as the best out-of-shield move in the entire game. While he does have some weaknesses (namely his light weight, the unusual properties of some of his moves, and poor range) along with his playerbase being somewhat small compared to the other juggernauts of ''Ultimate'', players like Maister have proven that the two-dimensional terror is not a character to be slept on in bracket, with him achieving many high placing finishes at majors over the course of 2019 and early 2020, like 3rd at the Big House 9 and 2GG: Kongo Saga and 2nd place at Frostbite 2020.
* '''[[VideoGame/KidIcarus Pit]]''', originally a forgotten character in the history of gaming, got his chance to shine once again after ''Brawl'' added him to the fray, but his three attempts to do so have amounted to a rather inconsistent run.
** His ''Brawl'' appearance is generally regarded to be a pretty balanced, JackOfAllStats character, similarly to Mario as described above. Pit's bladed bow, which he can bifurcate, grants his attacks disjointed range, though not as disjointed as characters like Marth. His moves have low lag, though not to the extent as characters like Meta Knight. Finally, he has reasonable mobility, though not as much as characters like Zero Suit Samus. On the more polarized sides of things, Pit possesses an amazing recovery that includes multiple jumps, a long-distanced recovery move in Wings of Icarus, and the ability to glide, alongside very useful aerials, and one of the most notoriously broken projectiles in the game with the arrows from his Palutena Bow; however, he also has very few moves that can reliably KO, and if he gets hit during his Wings of Icarus, he can no longer perform it until he lands. However, what makes Pit notorious is that his consensus is [[BrokenBase very dependent on whether you ask an American[=/=]European or a Japanese player]] what they think of Pit. The West (America and Europe) overall considers Pit as a balanced mid-tier character that only saw a few glimpses of success; in stark contrast, the East (Japan) is a lot more positive about Pit, where he is ranked as a high-tier character as a result of his very numerous results thanks to players like Earth and Masashi, much to the the West's shock.
** His transition to ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', however, didn't have the same luck. Due to the release of ''VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising'', Pit's moveset was heavily altered to not only be more unique, but also to incorporate many of the abilities and weapons he had (though he still fights mainly with his trusty bow). Unfortunately, the nerf hammer dropped hard on Pit in the process, with many of his moves dealing less damage and possessing shorter durations and smaller hitboxes that [[HitboxDissonance don't fit their animations and[=/=]or leave blindspots]], his recovery becoming much worse due to the removal of gliding, his lower midair jumps and a vastly inferior up special in Power of Flight (in a game where recoveries are vastly improved), and his Palutena Bow arrows becoming weaker, less mobile and less active. Even in spite of his numerous buffs, such as a new finisher in his new Upperdash Arm, a new meteor smash down air, a vastly revamped grab game, and the game's physics granting him a respectable combo game, none of these buffs compensated for the nerfs. Combine this with his troubles at ending stocks, the game's engine being less friendly overall to Pit due to the introduction of rage and ledge trumping, and a complete lack of buffs in game updates and... yeah. While Pit's reputation was positive on release, it became notoriously worse and worse over time, and Pit would be decried for being an "honest" character, with [[BoringButPractical no real strengths or weaknesses over the rest of the cast]] save for a still respectable recovery. At the end of the metagame, Pit's playerbase remained consistently small and he ended up on mid-tier, but several players argue he should've been ranked lower. Similar to King Dedede below, Japan thought Pit was decent, which is attributed as the reason to why Pit never saw much buffs.
*** By proxy, Pit's MovesetClone and one of the two original Echo Fighters of the franchise, '''[[VideoGame/KidIcarusUprising Dark Pit]]''', has been hit with this as well. Dark Pit has two moves that differentiate him from Pit, those being his Electroshock Arm and Silver Bow; Electroshock Arm sends opponents at a low angle that is notorious for killing ludicrously early, making it a better move than Pit's Upperdash Arm; meanwhile, Silver Bow is a more damaging projectile, but barely curves, thus being egregious compared to Pit's Palutena Bow. While both moves lead into a slightly different playstyle compared to Pit, none of these moves ultimately make Dark Pit better or worse than his original counterpart, leading to him having the same increasingly negative reception Pit has amounted.
** ''Ultimate'' granted both Pit and Dark Pit a multitude of buffs. While their playstyle remains nearly unchanged in the transition from ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' to ''Ultimate'', the two angels did get some major quality of life improvements, such as their multi-hit jab being consistent and having less landing lag on their aerials. However, it still didn't compensate for their weaknesses. Their killing power was still subpar, they lacked kill setups, and still suffered from serious HitboxDissonance and blindspots[[note]]Most notably their up smash, neutral air, and forward air[[/note]]. As a result, the Pits are still OvershadowedByAwesome - anything they could do, other characters could do better, and with a small playerbase, Pit and Dark Pit never saw many tournament results. Unlike in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', however, game updates have made sure to improve the angels. 4.0.0 improved the killing power on their up smash and gave their back air less lag, giving them a much needed spacing/poking tool, while 8.0.0, gave them a stronger and faster up air, an improved down tilt that leads into kill confirms (something that they sorely lacked), ''significantly'' less ending lag on their down special (Guardian Orbitars), and just to make sure, a more reliable down smash. After these buffs, top player Dabuz started playing the Pits to some success, and Japanese player Tet (formally Mafio) has started to place high (if not winning) offline events in Tokyo. The consensus seems to be that the Pits are solid mid tier characters and will go up as the playerbase improves, though their lack of a true gimmick still renders them as "honest" characters and thus they have to work harder compared to the cast as a result.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemPathOfRadiance Ike]]''' sits in a similar boat as Roy does; however, Ike's case is notably different from Roy due to him being generally regarded as more balanced than the former ever was.
** In ''Brawl'', Ike underwent a similar reaction to what Little Mac went through ''Smash 4''; he was the most powerful character in the game by a significant margin, while outreaching every other character in the game with his {{BFS}} Ragnell, though in return he was near-cripplingly slow. However, amongst more casual players, like Little Mac, his strengths shone as bright as possible while his weaknesses were nigh-completely mitigated, leading many casual and {{scrub}}bish players to decry him as broken. Having the classic archetype of a MightyGlacier, however, Ike fared much worse in competitive play, which, when combined with his casual perception, led to him being of one most looked-down upon and mocked characters among competitive players. Over time, perceptions on both ends would relax, with the former group of players getting better and thus learning to use Ike's lack of speed against him, while some renowned Ike players showed he had some caveats beyond extreme power that allowed him to compete decently at a high level, thus competitive players ended up seeing him as a solid mid-tier character.
** This perception was then inverted for ''Smash 4''. At release, Ike was significantly worse than his ''Brawl'' incarnation, losing combos, autocancels, his smashes nerfed, damage decreases (although this is synonymous with the entire returning cast), and hitboxes being worse. After a couple patches, Ike became much better. Faster, more reliable tilts. Hitboxes being fixed for his massive forward air. Ike gained very consistent and powerful throw combos, a killing dash attack which patched up his lack of a mid-range threat, and a deadly edgeguard with Eruption when it was found that all characters had two frames of vulnerability when they grab the ledge from below. Eruption, having a large, long-lasting hitbox and being extremely powerful, made the move at the ledge a powerful option. Top it off with his aerials now having less landing lag, and you have dedicated Ike players getting great results from him and thus Ike's future became that of a solid-mid tier once again.
** Then in ''Ultimate'', Ike was first thought of as just as a little better than he was in ''Smash 4'' and wasn't seen as a potential top tier due to his SkillGateCharacter status in the previous games. After [=MKLeo=] showed what Ike is capable of in a few tournaments, more people have seen him as a legitimate threat. Ike has a very powerful move in the form of his neutral air; not only does it make his neutral game much better, but it also gives him lethal confirms into kill moves, most infamously his brand-new and powerful up air. He also benefits from having a horizontal recovery move that's very hard to predict, giving him a better recovery than most other heavyweights. While his recovery overall still isn't great and he's rather easy to gimp, if Ike knows what he's doing, then he's difficult to force into a disadvantage state for long. After a few months, though, he's seen a significant drop in usage, mainly because of how due to overuse, people caught on to how overreliant he is on his neutral air with few other effective options for approaches. Still, Ike remains a potent character, and one that should not be slept on.

** At first, the Trainer was a poor character in ''Brawl'', for being the most convoluted and demanding character ever conceived in the ''Smash'' series (mastering one character is hard enough, here you have to master three completely different characters ''in addition'' to learning how to effectively mitigate the stamina and forced switching mechanics to utilize the character in a remotely effective manner), whose "unique" mechanics outright worked against him and which no other character had to deal with. The result was a low tier mess of a character that few played and most of which gave up on or stopped playing seriously. Pokémon Trainer's problems were exacerbated by two of his Pokémon, Charizard and Ivysaur, being low-tier scrappies themselves; Ivysaur is particularly notorious for its awful design and many theorized it would be even worse than Ganondorf if it was a solo character. The Pokémon Trainer concept was completely scrapped in ''Smash 4'', with only Charizard of the lot returning as a solo character.
** In ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', while transformation characters were scrapped, characters like Zelda and Samus were lucky enough to have both their forms as separate characters; only '''Charizard''' returned out of the four members of Pokémon Trainer's team. While this made sense due to its status as a BreakoutCharacter in its home series, this didn't turn out too well, as it [[TheArtifact retained its old moveset]] that was clearly designed with a team dynamic in mind. It was therefore considered one of the worst characters in the game (sometimes even the absolute worst) for the first few years of its lifespan. Charizard had a complete lack of any sort of combo game, and generally possessed slow and punishable attacks, with its aerials in particular being extremely laggy, leaving it with a very poor neutral, all while not hitting anywhere near as hard as the likes of Ganondorf/Bowser and having the typical heavyweight weaknesses, leaving Zard as a MasterOfNone and not letting it get help from Squirtle and Ivysaur to round out its weaknesses and handle initial damage racking. {{Balance Buff}}s greatly improved Charizard in terms of combos, damage output, kill power, frame data, and air speed, and Zard had some caveats of its own realized, such as how great its recovery is, a very potent advantage state punctuated with a fast incredible anti-air up smash, and a very strong edge-guarding game. Zard would become the JackOfAllStats super heavyweight, and while its tier standing was very slow to improve, it eventually made its out of the bottom tier as of the third tier list and continued to climb from there. In ''Ultimate'', its reunion with its Trainer(s) lifted it out of its rut even more, with Charizard now working together with Squirtle and Ivysaur to make Pokémon Trainer into a very viable and popular fighter and becoming the "1-2 hits to kill" option to use after racking up damage with the other two starters.
** When the Trainer returned in ''Ultimate'', the stamina mechanic was completely removed, as well as making switching much faster in an attempt to save the Trainer from low-tier status. This [[GoneHorriblyRight went a bit too well]], and the character has shot up to the top tier with a myriad of offensive and defensive tools such as the new Pokemon Switch, which is universal to each {{Mon}} as a risky but lightning-quick combo-escape tool. Squirtle's weight may be low, but its advantage state is a force to be reckoned with with its great combo ability, including some potent throws and an excellent forward tilt to start them. Furthermore, Charizard and especially Ivysaur's heavy buffs and tweaks have made them legitimately useful. Charizard is a powerhouse with strong aerials which can easily secure a KO, and Flare Blitz can KO at very low percents with a well-timed read on the opponent's movement. Charizard's recovery is easily among the safest that that Trainer's Pokémon have, since it has two jumps and an armored Fly to punish gimp attempts. However, Ivysaur is easily the most useful Pokemon of the three, with multiple spacing tools such as its neutral air, projectile side special, and its up special at its disposal. Easily its most infamous offensive options are its up air, which can juggle opponents and KO off the top blast zone, and its down air, which is a meteor smash with an ''enormous'' hitbox that can reliably punish low recoveries; both of them also share a large hitbox which make juggling and landing with them much safer. Tweek has won in one major tournament using Pokémon Trainer, and consistently scores high in others, making the Trainer a feared and respected character in competitive play. However, compared to many of the top- and high-tier characters, and similarly to Fox in ''Melee'', the Trainer's popularity (with the female Trainer in particular being an [[BadassAdorable adorable]] and endearing [[EnsembleDarkhorse fan-favorite fighter]]) and steep learning curve (due to controlling a "three-in-one" character and due to Squirtle's complicated combo tree and strange moveset synergy) has made them more of a tier-induced base-breaker, similarly to Joker and Roy. Most players therefore consider the Trainer's highly regarded status in competitive play to not be a bad thing.
*** Charizard's iteration in ''Ultimate'' deserves special mention; while the Trainer as a whole was praised as a great character from the beginning, Charizard itself was considered a horrendous character in the initial release of the game. Not only did it suffer from many of the same flaws that it did in early ''Smash 4'', but the loss of Rock Smash and its forward aerial no longer autocanceling from a short hop also made it much worse than it ended up in that game. As a result, many players including Leffen claimed that it was holding back the Trainer outright, and would get more mileage out of Squirtle and especially Ivysaur and only switch to Charizard for recovery and use it as little as possible; the disparity between all three Pokémon was so large that many players would rank them separately on tier lists, placing Charizard at the absolute bottom. It didn't help that Ivysaur suffered from the opposite end of this trope, being so much better than Squirtle (let alone Charizard) that the Trainer was derisively referred to as "Ivysaur & Friends" and was played in a way that maximized use of Ivysaur while barely using the Trainer's main switching gimmick except to get out of sticky situations, missing the point of the character. However, later balance patches slightly nerfed Ivysaur and buffed Charizard, making the Trainer as a whole a much more consistent character and allowing the three Pokémon to synergize much more effectively, which in turn made it more difficult to judge them on their own merits rather than flowing into each other's kits.
* '''Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog'''. While his introduction since ''Brawl'' left several fans of the blue blur pleased ([[DreamMatchGame who doesn't want to see Mario and Sonic duking it out up close and personal?]]), the "fastest thing alive" has become infamous in competitive play for having one of the ''slowest'' playstyles of any ''Smash'' character in history.
** Back in the ''Brawl'' days, Sonic had what is perceived as one of the worst movesets in the game bar special moves, the latter of which combined with his well-known outstanding mobility, made up for his moveset's shortcomings. To be fair to him, Sonic's [[SignatureMove Spin Dash]] and [[ChargedAttack Spin Charge]] give him among the best approach, burst, and mobility options in the game, and when combined with his lightning-fast mobility, lets Sonic camp opponents with his mobility and potentially time out an opponent when he has the lead. His average weight, along with a very varied recovery, also made him difficult to KO. Combine that with effective throws, and Sonic does have healthy options to rack up damage, keep a lead, and potentially fish for a VictoryByEndurance. However, outside of these options, Sonic's standard moveset also had very little utility outside of racking up damage. His hitboxes are overall poor, which when combined with a lack of reliable KO and edgeguarding options makes it ''really'' hard for him to close out a stock. His lack of a true projectile also makes his neutral game reliant on running away and being up-close. These issues ultimately near-cripple Sonic's moveset, to the point he had to adapt a very patient playstyle. He was the victim of many derogatory jokes for ''Brawl'''s early lifespan, and very often labeled as a boring low tier character who was weak and only stalled for the time up. Sonic would later rise to be a stable mid-tier character in the mid- and late parts of the game's lifespan thanks to players such as Espy, Meekspeedy and X, but it was never enough to erase the negative opinion players usually had of him.
** His appearance in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', however, is up there amongst the most disliked characters in the game among the competitive playerbase. Although his damage output was reduced and his mobility is a little less extreme compared to the cast (as many characters' mobility was buffed), his moveset was overall improved in terms of utility, and his [=KOing=] ability was alleviated in many of his moves, which means Sonic is no longer a slouch on offense. Even in spite of Sonic's relatively unchanged mobility, it's still unmatched and ridiculously superior to everyone else's, which allows him to rushdown if the opportunity arises and, much like in ''Brawl'', allows him to literally run circles around much of the cast when he steals a lead; the latter strategy of which a lot of Sonic players have notoriously abused to great success, among the most infamous of which being Wrath. So the result is a top tier that's incredibly frustrating for many players to fight and watch, and who routinely places well in tournaments. Sonic did receive some slight nerfs in numerous game updates, but while they made it harder for him to score [=KOs=], they were still not enough to reverse this perception; if anything, [[FromBadToWorse they fired him to embrace the campy playstyle he became known for!]] Sonic continued to achieve very respectable tournament results thanks to players such as 6WX, KEN, komorikiri, Seagull Joe, [=SuperGirlKels=], Wrath and many more, and was routinely placed among the top 10 best characters in the game.\\
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However, one such notable instance on which Sonic {{averted|Trope}} this was in The Big House 6. Seven Sonic mains[[note]]6WX, Craftis, Manny, Seagull Joe, [=SuperGirlKels=], True Blue and komorikiri (while Wrath also entered the tournament, he reportedly didn't participate in the pact)[[/note]] entered the tournament with each holding possession of a real life replica of a Chaos Emerald, making a pact where each time a Sonic main was eliminated from bracket, they would pass on their Chaos Emerald to a Sonic main still in bracket. This didn't go unnoticed within the community, who praised the [[SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments heartwarming pact]] the players made. The player who ended up with the seven Chaos Emeralds was [[https://twitter.com/komorikiri_Ace/status/785161815374327809 komorikiri]], who despite also using Cloud during the tournament, would proceed to top 8 and tear up the bracket using mainly Sonic, finishing the tournament with a very convincing 3rd place, much to the community's delight.
** ''Ultimate'' handed Sonic some well-placed nerfs; not only was he [[FragileSpeedster made much lighter]] and his up aerial not connect as reliably if Sonic grabs a lot of momentum, but his Spin Dash and Spin Charge were significantly toned down: Spin Dash can no longer be shield canceled, Spin Dash and Spin Charge are unable to cross-up shielding opponents (unless one fully charges the move) and can't be held indefinitely. Despite this, Sonic still received some buffs to compensate, namely an improvement to his already outstanding mobility, a heavily buffed Homing Attack, and a more serviceable standard moveset. As a result, despite an initial mediocre perception, Sonic has once again ascended to the high tiers in recent times to the dismay of many, still being able to make use of a defensive playstyle on slower characters, but now having more impressive offensive tools that let him shift to an offensive approach if the opponent can catch up to him, and Sonic still enjoys tournament results from players like KEN, Sonix, [=UR2SLOW=] and Wrath.\\
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Additionally, Sonic is considered to be even scarier in online play. Due to the closure of events as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, tournaments were forced to be run online and not in public. Nintendo's internet service is not the best, so even small amounts of lag and ping can result in punishment options being not nearly as consistent. Guess who benefits from having an outstanding mobility that makes him hard to hit AND allows him to punish other attacks well? The hate for Sonic was reborn from the ashes after several Sonic mains such as [=UR2SLOW=] and Sonix have started to employ more defensive tactics much like in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', and although he is not a top tier as in the previous game while being more manageable in offline, Sonic is a character one will not like to find in online, regardless of the matchup. It has gotten to the point where ridicule of Sonic reached the same levels of ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' in how much people wanted him and ''only him'' banned from online tournaments, with some events successfully doing just that, while others [[SeriousBusiness even put up cash bounties to eliminate Sonic players from brackets]]. Some group even petitioned to [[DisproportionateRetribution have him banned]] ''[[DisproportionateRetribution offline]]'' when the pandemic ended, though this fortunately never took off.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Kirby}} King Dedede]]''', who Creator/MasahiroSakurai voices, started off strong in ''Brawl'', being a MightyGlacier with a powerful chaingrab that allowed him to invalidate a good chunk of the cast, though the removal of chaingrabbing and subsequent nerfs to his moveset in later games would cause him to plummet into the lower end of the tier list.
** In ''Brawl'', Dedede is a weird example of a high-tier scrappy; he has a chain throw that can deal 20-30ish% damage every time at any percent with its set knockback that worked on about 2/3rds of the cast (and it could flat-out infinite a few characters under the right conditions), in conjunction with the second-best grab to make getting it really easy, and a back aerial that was strong and far-reaching enough to space with, while being fast enough to safely spam and keep people out. While there are additional reasons, these were the main reasons Dedede countered many mid- and lower-tier characters ''really hard'' while being one of the strongest choices against a few top/high tiers that these worked effectively on, such as Snake and Marth (and for a good amount of characters, he was their flat-out worst matchup, being worse than all the characters above). The players of these countered characters tended to really hate Dedede, some even hating him more than the characters above. However, against most of the top/high-tiers and some mid-tiers, where Dedede's chain throw either didn't work, or he was too slow/immobile to keep up with them, he would get countered hard himself (not to mention he takes over ''Melee'' Fox's position as the fastest faller and slowest horizontal aerial mover in the game). As such, Dedede was ultimately a borderline high tier character at best who didn't have that good tournament success after the first couple of years, but still managed to get a top-tier hatedom.
** In ''Smash 4'', King Dedede was largely nerfed and became one of the worst characters in the game. With his old back aerial replaced with a new much less effective one alongside a nerfed grab range (formerly two of his greatest assets), the loss of chain grabbing (formerly one of his greatest strengths ''and'' weaknesses), and very bad frame data on par with Ganondorf without the consistent power to back it up, Dedede is left as a sluggish, underpowered character with the worst neutral game in ''[=SSB4=]'' and a limited number of KO options. Furthermore, unlike most low-tier characters, Dedede isn't helped at all by custom moves, as they're all inferior to his default specials or fail to address his most glaring issues, leaving him as possibly ''the'' worst character in the game after Jigglypuff when customs are allowed. Even worse than this is the fact that after getting slightly nerfed in the first balance patch, Dedede was actually ''nerfed'' again in one of the latest patches without ever receiving any direct buffs (with his already worst-in-the-game air speed being slightly reduced, which while the change had little practical effect, the thought behind it left a nasty sentiment in Dedede players who have been desperate for buffs). This leaves him as possibly the worst heavyweight in the game. In Japan he seems to avert this however, as he has been seemingly ranked better over there, including up to the mid-tiers, which some players point to as the reason Dedede did not get any buffs in the balance patches.
** His ''Ultimate'' appearance was buffed, allowing King Dedede to play to his strengths better. Notably, his Inhale also became an AttackReflector (on top of still being a GrappleMove). However, while he was initially considered to have improved significantly since ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' and was considered a solid upper mid-tier character, he still retains most of his core weaknesses from the previous game, making his reputation diminish as the meta has progressed. Current consensus is that he stands at the lower end of mid-tier at best, or the higher end of low-tier at worst, since his improvements didn't fully address his weaknesses. At the very least, Dedede remains a popular choice across all levels of play, making him, like Ganondorf and Incineroar (see above), more of a sympathetic tier-induced scrappy.

* Like Bayonetta, '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemFates Corrin]]''' has had a wild ride despite being one of the newer characters in ''Smash 4'', which combined with their BaseBreakingCharacter status in ''Fire Emblem Fates'' (similarly to Roy above), solidifies them into this.
** Since the release of ''Smash 4'', Corrin slowly had this effect building during their initial release. Corrin has an interesting and very powerful toolkit with a strong ground-to-aerial game with their tilts, very strong and long-ranged smash attacks, and a three-stage projectile in Dragon Fang Shot that could stun opponents and allow follow-ups, as well as perform a lot of damage with the follow-up attack it had innately. However, the two traits of Corrin that are linked to their "high-tier scrappyhood" is their Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge specials. Dragon Lunge, Corrin's side special, is a very powerful, quick move that not only could KO opponents early if tipped, but also could "pin" for a follow-up between a far-reaching forwards or backwards attack and a jump, leading to a side special centered playstyle that near-rivals Sonic's because of its utility on offense and mobility. Meanwhile, Counter Surge, their down special, is regarded as the best "traditional-styled" Counter in the game by a great margin, having the highest knockback out of all non-custom counters and launching opponents vertically, as opposed to horizontally, making it hard to survive against, even post-patch. Pre-patch, it had the second highest damage multiplier, making it capable of [=KOing=] characters at extremely low percents, and was appropriately nerfed, but still remains powerful enough to net moderately low percent [=KOs=] off of countered attacks, especially in the air. As time passed, Corrin's top tier status fell, thanks to the identification of their main weaknesses, such as their sub-par recovery and lack of follow-ups off of grabs (though they have two powerful throws) and counterplay, which has helped Corrin alleviate some of their high-tier scrappy status, although their strong toolkit still kept them on high tier and on the radar.
** However, ''Ultimate'' suddenly threw them to the "low tier" side of the scrappy spectrum due to the very harsh nerfs their kit received. Predictably, their Dragon Lunge and Counter Surge were nerfed, the former in distance and both in power. Unpredictably, however, their other special moves in Dragon Fang Shot and Dragon Ascent were heavily nerfed as well, with Dragon Fang Shot stunning opponents for a shorter time, and Dragon Ascent now having no momentum afterwards. As a result, despite their useful buffs in an overall improved aerial game due to the lower landing lag, their improved mobility, and the ability to manually cancel Dragon Lunge, Corrin's neutral game and punishment options all became worse, forcing them to contest with the rest of the cast, who had significantly improved in comparison to them. While their status was slightly controversial in ''Smash 4'', most players agree [[AlasPoorScrappy the nerfs were way too much, and their buffs do not compensate at all]]. Several game updates have ensured to buff Corrin drastically; although the buffs have so far not undone the heavy downgrade their moveset's synergy previously had, they have improved their moveset's power and their special moves' standalone utility. General consensus nowadays is divisive, with one camp stating that Corrin has improved since the game's release and that they're now considered a borderline high-tier character, whereas the other camp states their buffs haven't done much in the way of improving them and that they are now just a mid-tier.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Lucina]]''', Marth's [[MovesetClone Echo Fighter]], is unique in that she started out as a bottom-tier character and rose in the tier list in a way that essentially had her occupy every single possible tier position before settling in as a top-tier in ''Ultimate''.
** Prior to version 1.1.1 of ''Smash 4'', she was considered one of the worst characters in the game for inheriting most of Marth's negative traits (as seen above) and lacking his saving grace; she has no sweetspots on any of her attacks, while Marth's greatest caveat are the tippers on his moves that deal higher knockback (which are seen as much more advantageous than Lucina's damage/knockback being slightly stronger than Marth's untipped hits on all of her hitbox locations). However, she was significantly buffed in balance patches (with some buffs shared with Marth), making her position much more debatable by giving her a few more advantages over Marth, such as a safer neutral game, and raising her position within the bottom tiers. Eventually, she followed Marth to higher tiers as patches went on, with her own consistent range and damage output giving her some niche over Marth against certain characters.
** However, this was nothing compared to her transition into ''Ultimate''. While she lacks the raw power of her father Chrom, she instead retains many of Marth's dangerous moves, with quick recovery that's very hard to intercept in Dolphin Slash, and the very potent Shield Breaker, which is much more dangerous than in previous games due to how dodging is risky in this game, meaning that her opponent has to be very patient if they want to approach her. It doesn't help that, like Chrom, her combos and strings are simple and, unlike Marth, she doesn't have his strong tippers in exchange for being easier to play, making her BoringButPractical. ComplacentGamingSyndrome is a huge part of why she is so widely disliked: she really doesn't have anything to offer other than "AttackAttackAttack", and has a really linear playstyle, but she is just so overwhelmingly effective at what she does that it doesn't matter. However, pro players believe that Lucina is given too much credit, as thanks to her BoringButPractical playstyle, any competent player can theoretically adapt to her despite being so effective at what she does, so if you've seen one, you've probably [[SeenItAll seen them all]]. Finally, while many fans of the time-traveling princess are happy to see her doing so well, [[DifficultButAwesome Marth]] fans have been particularly touchy due to Lucina essentially invalidating her ancestor in competitive play.
* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1 Shulk]]''' is another polarizing character whose tier placement has shifted constantly between patches ''and'' games, mainly due to the games trying to balance the game-changing use of his Monado Arts by giving him a very limited number of fast attacks to go with his Monado's immense attack range compared to other sword fighters.
** In ''Smash 4'', Shulk was initially seen as an aversion of a "low tier" scrappy, who fell right back into being a straight example of one later on. Initially, Shulk was seen as one of the worst characters in the game despite what some saw as high potential in his Monado Arts' [[StanceSystem stat-change mechanic]], as he had the overall slowest and laggiest attacks in the game (with the Monado's immense range failing to properly compensate for this), in conjunction with many of his moves not working properly (such as his multi-hit forward smash that failed to connect both its hits much of the time) or just being undertuned. Then the 1.0.4 patch gave Shulk a really large buff, improving the damage output/knockback on nearly all his moves, the aforementioned hitbox issues being fixed, and some of his moves being made less laggy. This resulted in Shulk's perception shooting up, and some even seeing him as a potential high-tier character in the hands of someone who mastered him. As time went on however, very few Shulk players did well in tournaments despite his ample playerbase, and many players realized the potential of the Monado and of his advanced techniques were overrated, and his moves were still too slow and laggy, thus holding him back still. As a result, Shulk merely slipped back into the mid tiers.
** [[TookALevelInBadass This ended up being a one-time deal]], however, because as of ''Ultimate'', Shulk's issues have been addressed even further by removing even more of his sluggishness (albeit not entirely), alongside universal mobility buffs to the entire cast. His impressive attack range has been maintained, and as such is harder to challenge thanks to the aforementioned mobility buffs. His most significant buff, however, is having a faster way to reach each of his Monado Arts through a RingMenu instead of just cycling through them (though that remains an option if the player desires), alongside the arts themselves giving him greater [[MultiformBalance boosts (and penalties) to his stats]]. Shulk's improvements compared to ''Smash 4'' has had many professional players now considering him to truly be in the high tiers, or even top tiers, as well as one of ''the'' best of the game's sword fighters. But at the same time, many fear that Shulk [[GoneHorriblyRight was buffed a bit]] ''[[GoneHorriblyRight too]]'' [[GoneHorriblyRight much]], and that, should he be optimized in competitive play this time, he could potentially be considered a "top tier" Scrappy due to even more imposing factors, such as using his Monado Arts Ring Menu to nigh-instantly escape deadly combos, kill confirms, and multi-hitting [=KO=] moves with the [[StoneWall Shield Art]] mid-hitstun, then potentially punish ''on hit'' with the [[GlassCannon Buster and Smash Arts]] during the endlag of an opponent's attack. The stronger utility of his Shield Art, combined with his LagCancel advanced technique, "[[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Dial_Storage Dial Storage]]", have allowed Shulk access to additional options, follow-ups, and punishes with his attacks and Monado Arts that no other character in ''Ultimate'' is capable of. The improvements to all five of his arts in general allow Shulk to press and push his advantage to extremely damaging and oppressive, sometimes outright [=KO=]ing opponents at very obscene percents. It has gotten to the point that some have accused Shulk and anyone that uses him of "cheaters", as they question whether Shulk even plays the same game as the rest of the cast. This concern isn't universal, however, due to Shulk still having such a steep learning curve with his StanceSystem, equally DifficultButAwesome advanced techniques, and having continued struggles with sluggish frame data otherwise, that he remains a rare character to find in big tournaments, let alone consistently achieve high results in them by his playerbase, compared to many players of the other high tiers and top tiers in the game. It is because of this learning curve that Shulk has started to decline in usage, with most of his former players either demoting him to a secondary, or dropping him entirely for more consistent sword fighters such as Roy and Pyra[=/=]Mythra.

** In ''Smash 4'', he was particularly notorious as a low-tier scrappy, especially with his status as a gaming icon. He had a similar trajectory to Bowser Jr., being a character who was initially thought to be at least decent, but fell through the floor as soon as their best player dropped him for a top-tier (Abadango dropping him for Mewtwo in this case). In fairness, he has some solid zoning with his Bonus Fruit, a great stage control tool and landing mix-up option with Fire Hydrant, and can deal decent damage. His weaknesses are that both of his projectile moves can easily be turned against him and his poor mobility and few kill moves outside of his slow/laggy smash attacks make it hard to score kills. His most infamous weakness is his grab, which is the worst in the game due to abysmal frame data [[note]]It's only briefly active for 3 very specific parts and lasts for over half a second after it whiffs, meaning the Pac-Man player will be hard pressed to land it and be easily punished if it misses. It remained terrible throughout the game’s lifespan, leading to people desperate to see it fixed claiming that it was improved after patches, leading to the [[MemeticMutation "Feels Faster" meme]].[[/note]], largely leaving him without a grab game. Despite the best efforts of more loyal Pac-Man mains such as Tea and Sinji, Pac-Man was generally seen as a character who was very difficult to play but without the [[DifficultButAwesome awesome]] to justify it.
** His ''Ultimate'' appearance fixed most of his biggest problems, such as his mediocre moves receiving increases in either power or utility, though the most significant buff Pac-Man received was making his grab a single continuous grabbox for as long as the Galaga tractor beam is out. Overall, Pac-Man's moveset is now much more fitting for ''Ultimate''’s fast-paced nature, granting him good options up close in addition to his already-bountiful tools for zoning. All of the changes make Pac-Man a much more formidable fighter, and though his playstyle has less of an emphasis over item stalling, it rewards item positioning and setups more than before, finally giving him the [[DifficultButAwesome vast reward that is typical for a character of his technical caliber]]. Though Pac-Man's representation is generally poor, he has obtained very strong results competitively thanks to the efforts of players such as EKING, Sinji, and especially Tea. As a result, Pac-Man has achieved a more positive reception across the community overall, where he is near-universally considered to be an upper high tier character in comparison to his low tier status in ''Smash 4'', though some have come to despise him for his a potent LongRangeFighter playstyle.
* Lastly, there's Pit's patron goddess, '''[[VideoGame/KidIcarus Palutena]]'''. The concept of a PhysicalGod in a fighting game sounds difficult to [[CompetitiveBalance balance]], as while {{God}}s are usually very powerful entities, fighting games allow them to [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu be defeated by any other character]] — the fact Palutena is not exempt from this rule, combined with her being another BaseBreakingCharacter in her home franchise, lands her into this.
** In ''Smash 4'', she was considered a rather boring low tier character. While she had her strengths that would manifest much more in the sequel, like a strong aerial game, [[HitboxDissonance Melee-Marth level disjointed grab]], and excellent invincibility on her back air and dash attack, her weaknesses were far greater. She had what was likely the worst default special moveset in the game, Auto-Reticle's long startup and target mechanic usually gave ample time to dodge it, her side-b reflect and down-b counters were among the worst in the game, and her up-B teleport, while decent for recovering, had no combat utility. Her ground game was also weak due often slow and very laggy tilts and smash attacks. Her custom moveset was vastly superior and might have allowed her to be a potential high tier, but the community’s aversion to them due to the [[ScrappyMechanic difficulty of unlocking them all]] and some being [[GameBreaker especially overpowered]], Including Palutena’s own Lightweight custom down-special that drastically increases her speed for about 13 seconds, ensured they were never widely adopted. Despite many buffs in patches, she remained doomed to low-tier for the game’s lifespan
** Come ''Ultimate'', however, Palutena became the equivalent of characters like Meta Knight in ''Brawl'' and Bayonetta in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', in the sense she became the game's [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] despite never being as broken as the former two. The transition between games [[BalanceBuff turned Palutena's moveset up]] ''[[BalanceBuff several]]'' [[BalanceBuff notches]]: Her tilts and smash attacks were improved by becoming faster or have less ending lag, and gave her two of the "Two-framing"[[note]]A brief 1/30th of a second window where you can interrupt a ledge grab animation, starting with the previous game[[/note]], with her very active up-smash and down-tilt. Her specials were also greatly improved by combining her counter and reflect into one down-special and her previous neutral custom special Explosive Flame Becoming her new Side Special, making her a much greater threat at range and improving her edge-guarding. The universal landing lag reductions also benefited her more than most, allowing her strong aerial game to really shine. Most infamously, her neutral air became a veritable Swiss-army knife that combos into itself for easy 0-40 damage against most of the cast and can edge-guard with ease. Combine that with her few strengths from the previous game and a reliable down-throw to back-air kill confirm and strong killing back-throw, and you got a very easy to pick-up and play high-tier that would see [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome extremely wide usage and success at high levels]]. To the delight of many, updates eventually caught up to Palutena, with 7.0.0 bringing nerfs to neutral air's final hitbox and KO power and down throw's combo ability, and 11.0.0 increasing dash attack's endlag and forward air's landing lag, and —most importantly— drastically shortening her grab range, no longer being one of the longest (including being, {{iron|y}}ically enough, outranged by ''Marth'') — drastically weakening her already dismal out-of-shield game. In spite of these, she remains a widely despised character that continues to see wide usage and competitive success.

* The lovable green dinosaur '''[[VideoGame/YoshisIsland Yoshi]]''' has had quite the run in ''Melee'''s competitive lifespan. Yoshi has some really good normals and aerials, solid pressure with double jump cancelling, super armor on his second jump, and a unique shield that makes him immune to shield poking. On the flipside, Yoshi's combo game was slightly nerfed from ''64,'' his recovery isn't all that amazing, and Yoshi being unable to jump out of shield which makes escaping pressure ''really'' hard. To make things worse, his matchups against some of the top tiers (Captain Falcon in particular) were extremely difficult. As a result, many wrote off Yoshi as being an unviable bottom tier in competitive play due to his extreme learning curve. That was until 2013, when a Japanese player named [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:AMSa aMSa]] hit the scene with some devastating Yoshi tech that made people question the true potential of Yoshi in competitive play. Thanks to Amsa's strong performances, including top cut finishes at supermajors such as GENESIS 6, a crop of new Yoshi players emerged and started exploring his potential. That said, despite some strong showings from [=aMSa=] and a handful of other players, they can never quite get that first place win in major events due to the aforementioned difficult top tier matchups that are prevalent in the later stages of bracket. These days, Yoshi's place in the meta is quite contentious, as some think that Yoshi has room to grow, while others think that Yoshi mains are holding themselves back by sticking with him. That said, the days of Yoshi being seen as a low tier are definitely over, and as of March 2021 [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC)#Thirteenth_tier_list_(March_29th,_2021) PG Stats has Yoshi as the 10th best character on the most recent tier list]], outplacing other solid characters like Dr. Mario and Ganondorf.

* In the initial release version of ''Super Smash Bros. for 3DS'', '''Little Mac''' got hit with the "broken" stigma hard by casual players and {{Scrub}}s; Little Mac's gimmick is that he's unparalleled on the ground, with some of the best ground mobility, the best rolls and sidestep, and ground attacks that excel in every category (including very powerful and fast smashes that have SuperArmor during their startup). To balance him out, he has by far the worst aerial game in ''Smash 4'' (with terrible air mobility and laggy short-ranged aerials that are exceedingly weak), while additionally having an atrocious and ridiculously easy-to-gimp recovery, in a game where almost all other characters have a serviceable recovery at worst (along with have a very short grab range, which makes his out-of-shield-grab punishes quite weak). The aforementioned types of players, however, didn't take advantage of these weaknesses (whether through not having the skillset to or refusing to out of being "honorable"/"not cheap"), and thus would always be fighting Mac at his best where few other characters could compete with him. It would also be escalated by the main online "competitive" mode, For Glory, only allowing Final Destination and Omega variants for stages, which are stages that heavily favor ground-based fighting (and thus are Little Mac's best stage outside of stages with no access to the bottom blast line at all), which, when combined with Mac's perception as an "easy character" at the time, led to a huge influx of Mac players on this mode, driving up the ire of these players even more. It got so notorious that even the game's director, Sakurai, commented about it (where he pointed out that Little Mac actually had one of the ''worst'' win-rates on For Glory and thus the ire at Mac was overblown). Nonetheless, despite what Sakurai said, and the competitive community seeing Little Mac as a mere high-tier at best and low-tier at worst, Little Mac ended up getting slightly nerfed in the game's first balance patch upon the release of the UsefulNotes/WiiU version. This nerf, combined with the general playerbase getting better at the game and learning/being more willing to exploit Mac's weaknesses, has led to this perception disappearing almost entirely outside some outlier scrubs who still refuse to exploit his weaknesses. However...\\
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When it comes to competitive players, Little Mac is instead one of the most derided characters in the game. Before the 1.0.4 patch that nerfed him, Mac's perception was alright among the competitive playerbase, though some at the time thought of him as a terrible low-tier character whose weaknesses were too significant and easy to exploit. After that patch, he's often seen as one of the worst characters in the game, and is arguably the most popular perceived low-tier character to bash and make fun of, especially with his aforementioned grossly-inflated perception among the more casual playerbase.\\
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In spite of this, Mac still has a following among competitive players who insist that his character is salvageable. He even has a small [[https://www.reddit.com/r/littlemacmains subreddit]] devoted to those who main him. Part of this may be the fact that due to people looking down on him, it's nowadays a bit easy to underestimate some of his more viable tools making him a bit of a sleeper-hit character, especially the swing-around potential of his K.O. Uppercut that players may or may not look out for. That, and his frame data (such as his frame 1 jab) is still a bitch to deal with for some players who don't have the skillset to do so.
* '''Ganondorf''' once more, but this time, while he is still considered to be low-tier (see Series-Wide section above), some people on For Glory hate fighting him for the same reasons why he's annoying to deal with in ''Brawl''; his "disrespect montages" have pretty much caused many a supposedly arrogant/spiteful player to inevitably switch to him just to either get an edge on a winning opponent or to further induce more salt into their losing opposition. While he's gotten a lot better compared to his version in ''Brawl'' and is a crowd-pleaser in competitive play, some players can find it easy to punish his options (especially if the Ganon player is too repetitive) while others can have a hard time and will die too fast when they don't know what to do. He is most likely up on par with the aforementioned Little Mac to be one of the most stereotypical symbols of For Glory there is, since his moves are perfect for taking advantage of laggy connections on top of being a heavyweight that's hard to K.O. (but at least easy to gimp for some character).
* ''' Lucario''' has been getting hit by both ends of tier-induced scrappiness. In Brawl, Lucario was a JackOfAllStats that had some serious power with his unique [[CriticalStatusBuff aura gimmick]], who was consistently ranked high-tier, and while some players disliked the aura gimmick for thinking it "rewarded players for losing", Lucario was generally not minded and was rooted for when up against the game's generally disliked top tiers. In ''Smash 4'', he was given some radical changes, with the already powerful aura gimmick being buffed to ridiculous levels, on top of tremendous buffs to Extreme Speed's recovering capabilities and Force Palm, while in return he was made slower with significant lag added to his attacks and the previously large hitboxes on his attacks made significantly smaller. Due to the aura buffs, Lucario became able to kill opponents ridiculously early (sub-50% kills were not uncommon with high damage Lucario) while he became able to recover from pretty much everything; this ended up making the people who disliked the aura gimmick before much louder, while many others thought Lucario was too powerful and had too good of a recovery. Even after the 1.0.4 patch provided significant nerfs to Lucario by adding significant landing lag to Extreme Speed and nerfing the vectoring mechanic to oblivion (a mechanic Lucario was arguably the largest benefactor of), many players still complained about Lucario and his aura being too powerful, while ranking him in the game's top tier.\\
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A growing contingent players, though, began seeing Lucario as being way too slow with attacks that were too unsafe, giving him one of the worst neutral games, and his recovery being overrated as its exploitableness became more apparent, especially after the 1.0.4 nerf; these players considered him a character who suffered CripplingOverspecialization with the aura gimmick, thus leaving him ineffectual if you played safe and didn't panic over the aura. As time has went on, Lucario's tournament results were near barren for a long time and the fears of those who thought his aura made him broken didn't materialize, causing more and more players to be in the latter camp that looked down on him. Overall, Lucario's tier position remains one of, if not the most contentious, of all characters in ''Smash 4'', with some still clinging to the belief that he's too powerful, while some think he's among the worst characters in the game, and running the whole gamut of tier positions among the rest of the playerbase. His results have notably improved as time went on, especially in Japan, so more players are ranking him higher nowadays, including being high tier at 17th on the Smashboards tier list.
* In a similar case to ''Smash 4'' Ike, '''Mewtwo''' was initially seen as a mediocre or terrible character. While it did receive noteworthy buffs, like increased utility in its Confusion and Disable specials, it became ''even lighter'' than before, its hitboxes remained awkward, and the loss of mobility options from ''Melee'' did not help it at all. By updates 1.1.3 and 1.1.5, however, Mewtwo gained very helpful buffs, including fixed hitboxes, faster and stronger attacks, and ''much'' better movement speed, helping it overcome its extremely low durability. As such, Mewtwo is now much more highly regarded and is seen by many as a high-tier or top-tier character.

* '''[[Franchise/DonkeyKong King K. Rool]]''' is a very peculiar case of this. He's a typical MightyGlacier SkillGateCharacter, but with both some unique strengths and weaknesses. He's got a counter that can reflect projectiles so you can't easily camp him out, has his own projectiles which means he can camp ''you'' out, possesses special super armor on his stomach when using several of his moves, has attacks with pretty decent range, K.O. confirms/mix-ups at higher percents on his down throw that buries, pretty decent frame data compared to most superheavies (most notably a frame 5 up tilt and a frame 7 dash attack that kills), a nasty edgeguarding game courtesy of the infamous "Suck n' Cuck" (his neutral projectile and its secondary suction component) that can completely destroy characters with situational or unsafe recoveries, and he has one of the hardest recoveries to punish in the game due to the propeller on his jetpack creating a hitbox above him, making him hard to edgeguard vertically, all of that on top of being the second heaviest character in the game with really strong moves. Combined with lag from online multiplayer benefiting heavies the most, and the result is casual players calling him overpowered without trying to find any counters to him. His weaknesses, however, start weighing in the more you get used to him; the super armor on his belly breaks after sustaining 36.02% and puts him into a 'shield break' stunned state, meaning his safest moves must be used sparingly, most of his fastest attacks have hefty endlag (his up air, which is his fastest one with frame 7 startup, has ''almost one whole second'' of end lag if not canceled by landing, and up smash, which comes out on frame 6, has almost 60 frames of endlag), his crown toss projectile can be used against him as an item if it falls on the floor (with often devastating results), his reflector counter loses to other reflectors due to its hefty end lag and the fact that it only works in front of him, he has bad ground and air speed, a relative dearth of combos outside of his down throw options in a game where most of the characters have at least a few good follow-ups, all on top of having one of the biggest hitboxes of all the fighters, making it incredibly difficult to prevent the croc from being combo'd into oblivion. Despite all of this, with online input delays factored in, K. Rool players online are able to exploit his range, projectiles and burying tools more often, making him a force to be reckoned with. Competitively, he fared much worse initially; for much of 2019, K. Rool languished in bottom tier, with most pros calling him one of the worst characters in the game (in fact, much of the Japanese playerbase considered him the single worst character in the game). While he is heavy, hits hard, and has a long-distanced recovery, he is also slow, incredibly unsafe (particularly with reliable KO options), is easily comboed thanks to his large size, is easily thwarted by horizontal edgeguarding when trying to recover, has consistently poor aerial options, and is incredibly vulnerable to pressure. Most smart opponents will either bait out his projectiles and counter and punish him for it, or (if they are confident they can avoid getting hit) will bait armor moves so they can smash his belly shield and leave him helpless; regardless of what they choose, K. Rool is so easily turned into a beach ball once his usual tricks are thwarted that until patch 6.0.0, it seemed likely that he would have been unable to leave bottom tier without significant changes. However, the 6.0.0 patch would grant him some buffs that alleviated some of his bigger issues, namely by making his neutral aerial safe on shield, Blunderbuss being faster and stronger, as well as his up aerial being a more reliable killing option. Patch 8.0.0 would also improve K. Rool further, by increasing the damage threshold on Crownerang's super armor, allowing for him to muscle his way through a much greater variety of moves than before such as Wolf's lasers and Snake's grenades, improving the kill potential on some of his moves (most notably back throw, which [=KOs=] around 20% earlier due to the lower launch angle), and improving his Belly Super Armor's HP from a measly 28.02% to a much more respectable 36.02%, making it less of an AchillesHeel than it was before. King K. Rool fares much better now compared to release, with dedicated professionals such as Ben Gold, 808, and [=KirbyKid=] representing him in tournaments, and his reputation is on the rise as top players like Dabuz and ESAM are evaluating him as a respectable mid-tier character. Nowadays, the current consensus on the croc seems to be that while he still has serious core issues that limit his effectiveness, he now has numerous strong tools that can get the job done under the right circumstances.
* Like K. Rool, '''[[Franchise/{{Castlevania}} Simon Belmont]]''' and '''[[VideoGame/CastlevaniaRondoOfBlood Richter Belmont]]''' are notorious SkillGateCharacters who were once believed to be major contenders, but settled on the lower end on the tiers after people got a feel for them. Their advantages are obvious: their great range, powerful smashes that can KO at shockingly low percentages, extensive zoning tools, and brutal edgeguarding games quickly earned them a rep, but as time went on, their many serious weaknesses became equally prominent. Among other things, their often-awkward hitboxes, frame vulnerability, overreliance on sweetspots, easy-to-gimp recovery, and great difficulty at coping with close-range pressure have all brought them down to upper mid-tier at best; the pros still waver on them, but most will agree that they do have serious weaknesses to match their strengths. Nonetheless, they are one of the most frequently complained-about characters by low-level players who do not know how to exploit their weaknesses, and there is a very real fear that their complaints will be overvalued and the Belmonts will be nerfed into the ground.
* '''[[Franchise/StreetFighter Ryu]]''' is another peculiar case. The issues with Ryu stem from his punishment game: although he can get many more combos going thanks to the significantly improved "[[LagCancel special cancel]]" options he has, it's generally agreed his overall punish game has been deceptively watered down since his first appearance in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', especially compared to the rest of the cast. His [[MovesetClone Echo Fighter]] Ken joined the fray in this game as well, with both sharing a TechnicianVersusPerformer routine, much like in his origin franchise; problem is, unlike Ken, Ryu doesn't have access to the repertoire of low knockback moves, "roundhouse kicks", or a multi-hit [[HurricaneKick Tatsumaki Senpukyaku]] like Ken does, nor to a decent mobility, the latter point of which plays the most major factor[[note]]Compared to the rest of the cast, his mobility was not improved between games, resulting in it becoming lackluster[[/note]]. Ryu does have access to attacks with generally more power, including a stronger [[KiAttacks Hadouken]] plus the [[FireBall Shakunetsu]] variant that hits multiple times, as well as a much stronger {{Shoryuken}}, which has allowed him to retain some way of zoning (compared to Ken's weaker Hadouken) and a stronger KO move at all times (compared to Ken's consistent, but much weaker and easier to DI Shoryuken). However, Ken's Hadouken still remains a decent projectile and his mobility and monstrous combo tree still end up overshadowing the strengths of Ryu, not to mention both still share the same core weaknesses. So, while Ryu isn't a bad character by any means, anything Ryu does, Ken can usually do it better, which is reflected in Ken's results and perception being more positive than Ryu. The release of [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry Bogard]] only made this worse, as much like Ken, Terry serves as a character who can perform what Ryu can do but better, often to the point where both these old [[VideoGame/SNKVsCapcom cross-company rivals]] enjoy more success with fans overall than Ryu. That said, several shoto mains[[note]]as in players who play both Ryu and Ken[[/note]] found that Ryu has his own merits (namely a better Hadouken/Shakunetsu and powerful single strikes) that give him an easier time against zoners (such as Young Link) and heavier characters (such as Bowser and Donkey Kong) compared to Ken.
* ''' Luigi's''' ''Ultimate'' incarnation is his most polarizing to date. On paper, Luigi seems nerfed compared to his appearance in ''4'', with his quick grab being replaced with a tether that did not serve as a recovery unlike the vast majority of tether grabs, and Luigi Cyclone rising far less, dealing a heavy blow to his recovery and making him far more vulnerable to gimps (while also removing its own ability to gimp opponents offstage). In practice however, his new grab proved to be less cumbersome than initially thought and gave Luigi a grab aerial that functions as a combo starter and a gimping tool, and while his vulnerability to gimps remains true, Luigi Cyclone now serves as a useful ComboBreaker thanks to its invincibility frames [[note]]which starts on ''frame 1'' when done in the air[[/note]] and as a kill move at higher percents. However, Luigi's most powerful assets are his combos. In addition to having potent combo starters, extenders, and finishers like his down throw, up-tilt, up-air, and back-air, Luigi also has many ways of confirming into his devastatingly powerful Super Jump Punch for a KO, the most infamous of these being a ''consistent'' [[CycleOfHurting zero-to-death combo]] that works on all characters and can be initiated with a single grab [[note]]While one zero-to-death combo was removed early in the game's lifespan, another, albeit slightly harder to perform, combo was soon discovered and remains unpatched as of this writing[[/note]]. This, combined with his strong back throw and the long range of his tether grab, grants Luigi some of the most potent grappling capabilities in ''Ultimate''. While players like Elegant have shown just how devastating Luigi can be even without the use of the zero-to-death and have garnered very respectable results with him, he is usually assessed as a mid-tier character, as despite his incredibly explosive damage output, Luigi is highly susceptible to getting walled out by projectiles and/or platform camped due the opponent being unwilling to risk an interaction with Luigi lest they end up eating a heavy punish, while his recovery is laughably easy to gimp should he lose his jump offstage. Regardless, Luigi is a character many dread fighting, as being grabbed by him even once can result in the opponent being thrown into a world of hurt with the younger Mario brother's robust combo game, or in the worst case, face an immediate deficit due to getting zero-to-deathed.
* '''[[VideoGame/Mother3 Lucas]]''' has gained some hatred despite not having the sheer PSI power or omnipresence as Ness, and he can be an absolute nuisance if he gets the drop on you. Case in point, his PK Freeze was buffed to nasty levels of scary thanks to the sheer edgeguarding potential combined with the nerf to the dodge mechanic makes it a pain just to get back on stage. His recovery compared to Ness is much more easier since he has a tether recover making less impractical than his PK Thunder. However, characters such as Mr. Game and Watch or Villager can take abuse of his attacks and reflect back or get rid of his PK Thunder to send him offstage and similar to Ness, swordfighters can get to Lucas with no problem thanks to their disjointed range that beats Lucas' own disjointed ones. While it is agreed that Ness is superior to Lucas for very obvious reasons, it doesn't stop low level Lucas players to spam PK Freeze when the opportunity is given and therefore a pretty solid threat if not checked. So in short, he's basically a slightly inferior Mario, since his playstyle can get harrowing to go up against and can KO you if you're not expecting it.
* The three '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Links]]''' have become some form of this trope:
** '''Link''' has become this as the metagame evolved. In contrast to his previous appearances, Link received a rework from his ''Breath of the Wild'' incarnation and underwent an extensive DiscardAndDraw as a result, an example of this being that his tether grab was replaced with a faster normal grab at the cost of the Hookshot's longer range. His down special, Rune Bomb, can now be manually detonated similarly to Snake's C4, and it can also be used to snipe offstage opponents or gimp characters with linear or short-distanced recoveries. But his most notorious change is his side special, Boomerang, which reverted to how it functioned in ''64'' and ''Melee'', getting rid of the windbox of his ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'' Gale Boomerang in exchange for greater combo potential, compounded by the fact that he can angle it up or down to throw players off. To top it all off, as a swordfighter, he greatly benefits from the new ''Ultimate'' engine and his sword's long reach can put immense pressure on his opponents. While he does have weaknesses, such as his Spin Attack being a linear recovery move, along with the loss of the Hookshot tether recovery making it more risky for him to get back on stage and characters with fast reflectors like Wolf or Mr. Game & Watch being capable of turning his potent arsenal of projectiles back on him, he has a deadly out-of-shield game and can be very obnoxious to play against. It is a genuinely agreed that Link is a high tier offline.
** For '''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Young Link]]''', While early opinions stated that Young Link was a top-tier character, the returning veteran dropped off significantly as the meta progressed. Young Link has incredible speed, sword disjoints and oppressive projectiles, giving him one of the best neutral games of the whole cast. Out of all the Links, his arrows travel the fastest and he can even combo them into each other. His boomerang functions similarly to the others, with the same benefits, and his bombs have a short fuse on them, making it easier to break out of combos and extend his recovery while making it harder for his opponents to grab and use them. On the flip side however, Young Link is very light, making him easy to KO, and his disjoints are very short compared to the rest of the other sword users and even other top-tiers such as Wolf. Finally and most importantly, he severely lacks reliable kill options. All of this together makes Young Link a character that can easily rack up damage and can be a nightmare for less experienced players, but can't finish the opponent off while being very easy to kill himself. While top players such as Tweek use Young Link as a secondary, success has been dropping by the time of writing.
** Finally, the position of '''Toon Link'''on the tier list has been a point of contention. Opposite to his counterpart Young Link, Toon Link was seen as a lower-mid tier character early in the meta; at least, to the Western audience. Many Japanese players see Toon Link as better than Young Link and have been showing results with the character. While his projectile game is seen as worse than Young Link, due to the properties of his arrows and long fuse on his bombs (making recovery extensions harder and making it easier for opponents to use the bombs themselves), Toon Link has been adjusted from Smash 4 from to have much more emphasis on sword attacks, turning him into a counter-zoner. Most notably, his Spin Attack up special is significantly stronger, making it a potent kill move that can be used out of shield. Overall, Toon Link trades some neutral for better kill potential, making him a sort of middle ground between the other two Links.
* When the '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Piranha Plant]]''' debuted in the game, many players were quick to label it as one of the worst characters in the game due to its awkward-to-use specials and overall lower frame data compared to other characters. However, the Plant received many buffs over time, such as making a number of its moves more reliable as KO moves, improving the frame data of a number of its moves, and giving its specials more utility; Long-Stem Strike is now very good at dealing damage to shields, Ptooie is now seen as a better projectile than it was initially perceived as, and both it and Poison Breath are now seen as excellent edge-guarding moves if used correctly. That combined with players figuring out how to play as the Plant over time (to the point that Brood came in 2nd place with the Plant at the Umebura SP 4) lead to its standing in the meta significantly improving. That being said, the Piranha Plant still has visible flaws that it must work around. It is considered to be a heavyweight, which naturally makes it a combo magnet, and using its specials to maximum effect requires practice and mastering the timing of when to use them so the player doesn't leave themselves open to being punished after using them. Overall, while the Plant is nowhere near being a top-tier character due to some flaws that are simply there by design, it's generally considered to no longer be anywhere near bottom-tier like it was upon its debut in the game either, especially in the hands of a player who knows how to use them.
* '''Samus''' and her [[MovesetClone Echo Fighter]] '''[[VideoGame/MetroidPrimeTrilogy Dark Samus]]''', likewise, have become this. Initially believed to be among the worst characters in the game, after a few months of the metagame developing, it's generally agreed that Samus and her dark doppelganger are solid mid-tier characters. While they lost Samus' dash attack setups from ''[=Smash 4=]'', they benefit from much better KO and combo games as well as a stronger projectile game in general. However, they both inherit some of Samus' longtime weaknesses, such as generally below-average speed, floatiness and vulnerability to combos, and a very unreliable jab combo. Furthermore, Dark Samus is generally considered to be very slightly superior to vanilla Samus due to her faster roll and lower-hitting Charge Shot, albeit not enough to invalidate the original bounty hunter. That said, in online play where lag becomes a factor, Samus and Dark Samus can become an absolute nightmare, where they can completely wall out opponents with their projectiles and with online lag making it much harder to react. Facing a Samus in lag with a CloseRangeCombatant can be a major uphill battle, with the lag favoring Samus' projectiles and hampering the brawler's approach and combo tactics. Even in offline play, close-range {{Mighty Glacier}}s such as Ganondorf and King K. Rool have a very hard time approaching the armored warriors. It says something that YB, the highest-ranked online player in Japan, has achieved his position using Dark Samus.
* '''[[Franchise/DragonQuest Hero]]''' is likely ''the'' most contentious both example in ''Super Smash Bros.'' history. He is designed around RPG elements, boasting an MP system and some of the most luck-based mechanics ever put in a ''Smash'' game, if not fighting games period, which allows for absurdly early kills: He has a 1/8th chance of critical hits with smash attacks that can kill or shatter shields with ease. His menu down special that has tons of great options such as stat buffs with the most infamous ones being Whack/Thwack[[note]]random chance of a OneHitKill with odds increasing with percent[[/note]], Zoom[[note]] A guaranteed recovery from anywhere at a minimal 8 MP cost and increased odds if near blast zones[[/note]] Bounce[[note]]Temporarily reflects all projectiles[[/note]], Kamikaze [[note]]A SuicideAttack with a big, unblockable blast radius and extreme kill power, just [[EpicFail avoid using it on your last stock]][[/note]], and Magic Blast[[note]] uses all leftover mp, but at max mp creates a [[InstantDeathRadius massive explosion that can easily kill at zero]][[/note]]. It further doesn't help that menu acts as a language barrier to any foreign players to a region. He also has a very strong special moveset to maximize his MP usage. However, this all comes at the expense of a dismal to terrible normal moveset (particularly a painfully slow back-air, similarly slow dash-attack, and extremely situational up-smash) and he becomes very vulnerable if caught off stage from very low and/or with low mana. The luck and language issues led to [[https://www.destructoid.com/smash-ultimate-s-hero-is-banned-by-a-major-australian-tournament-organizer-563935.phtml some banning]] [[https://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-france-bans-hero-and-future-dlc-characters-from-official-smash-bros-ultimate-tournaments/ him outright]]. On the other hand, Hero's weaknesses and heavy reliance on luck would lead to overall dismal results, ensuring the bans would get retracted and only a few players continuing to use him to middling success or as a secondary.

** Come ''Ultimate'', however, Palutena became the equivalent of characters like Meta Knight in ''Brawl'' and Bayonetta in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', in the sense she became the game's [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] despite never being as broken as the former two. The transition between games [[BalanceBuff turned Palutena's moveset up]] ''[[BalanceBuff several]]'' [[BalanceBuff notches]]: Her tilts and smash attacks were improved by becoming faster or have less ending lag, and gave her two of the ''Two-framing''[[note]]A brief 1/30th of a second window where you can interrupt a ledge grab animation, starting with the previous game[[/note]], with her very active up-smash and down-tilt. Her specials were also greatly improved by combining her counter and reflect into one down-special and her previous neutral custom special Explosive Flame Becoming her new Side Special, making her a much greater threat at range and improving her edge-guarding. The universal landing lag reductions also benefited her more than most, allowing her strong aerial game to really shine. Most infamously, her neutral air became a veritable Swiss-army knife that combos into itself for easy 0-40 damage against most of the cast and can edge-guard with ease. Combine that with her few strengths from the previous game and a reliable down-throw to back-air kill confirm and strong killing back-throw, and you got a very easy to pick-up and play high-tier that would see [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome extremely wide usage and success at high levels]]. To the delight of many, updates eventually caught up to Palutena, with 7.0.0 bringing nerfs to neutral air's final hitbox and KO power and down throw's combo ability, and 11.0.0 increasing dash attack's endlag and forward air's landing lag, and —most importantly— drastically shortening her grab range, no longer being one of the longest (including being, {{iron|y}}ically enough, outranged by ''Marth'') — drastically weakening her already dismal out-of-shield game. In spite of these, she remains a widely despised character that continues to see wide usage and competitive success.

** His ''Ultimate'' appearance fixed most of his biggest problems, such as his mediocre moves receiving increases in either power or utility, though the most significant buff Pac-Man received was making his grab a single continuous grabbox for as long as the Galaga tractor beam is out. Overall, Pac-Man's moveset is now much more fitting for ''Ultimate''’s fast-paced nature, granting him good options up close in addition to his already-bountiful tools for zoning. All of the changes make Pac-Man a much more formidable fighter, and though his playstyle has less of an emphasis over item stalling, it rewards item positioning and setups more than before, finally giving him the [[DifficultButAwesome vast reward that is typical for a character of his technical caliber]]. Though Pac-Man's representation is generally poor, he has obtained very strong results competitively thanks to the efforts of players such as EKING, Sinji, and especially Tea. As a result, Pac-Man has achieved a positive reception across the community overall, where he is near-universally considered to be an upper high tier character in comparison to his low tier status in ''Smash 4''.

** In ''Smash 4'', at first, she was considered very potent due to her trailer depicting her moveset (especially her special one) to be very promising. Some months later on, however, this ended up far from the truth. Not only was her entire moveset one of the laggiest in the game, but her special moveset was much different in practice than what was advertised. In fact, her special moves, being highly varied, were meant to be utilized through customization as a way to circumvent her weaknesses and adapt to the situation (be it through becoming a LongRangeFighter, a LightningBruiser, a JackOfAllStats, and so on), but the way her [[StanceSystem custom moves]] were balanced around her was disastrous. To boot, her default special moveset was considered very uncohesive, featuring not only very laggy moves, but also limited utility across all of them, with both her reflector and counter unanimously considered the worst of their kind. Her entire grounded moveset was also a contender for being the worst in the game, notorious for being incredibly sluggish and lacking in strength and utility. In spite of how unwieldy her kit was, she ''did'' have some notable advantages, such as good mobility, arguably the best jab in the game (the first hit had enormous range and allowed her to combo into other moves), a serviceable dash attack and back aerial that both allow her to challenge most moves due to their ''invincibility'', a great aerial game all-around, and a grab and throw game with good utility on her throws and her grab's range being so disjointed (comparable to [[HitboxDissonance the infamous]] ''[[HitboxDissonance Melee]]'' [[HitboxDissonance Marth grab]]. Unfortunately, none of them made up for her design's core weaknesses, as a minimal slip-up from her could be REALLY costly. Finally, while she could still be significantly improved with her custom moves, the [[BrokenBase disdain for the community about custom moves in general]][[note]]mainly [[ThatOneAchievement the methods of unlocking]] of one-too many and [[GameBreaker how broken some of them were]], [[{{Irony}} including Palutena's own down special move Lightweight]][[/note]] was so strong, they were dropped off soon after; combined with the already high limitations to [[ScrappyMechanic character customization]] in the game's modes, this ended up leaving Palutena in limbo. Game updates brought a few buffs to her, but while her results as a vanilla character improved quite a good amount (including an upset to at the time the best player, [=ZeRo=]), they were not enough to fix her immense design flaws as other characters (like Charizard, Ganondorf or Robin) or even give her the respect other tepidly-regarded characters already had (like Wii Fit Trainer, Kirby, Jigglypuff and Pac-Man). Thus, to the end of the game's lifespan, Palutena was widely considered as not only an [[MasterOfNone infamously]] [[SquishyWizard awkward]] low tier character and [[MemeticLoser the butt of much derogation among the community]], but also [[GoneHorriblyWrong one of the most abysmally-designed characters]] in any ''Smash'' game, with her character concept failing dramatically in practice.
** Come ''Ultimate'', however, Palutena became the equivalent of characters like Meta Knight in ''Brawl'' and Bayonetta in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', in the sense she became the game's [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] despite never being as broken as the former two. The transition between games [[BalanceBuff turned Palutena's moveset up]] ''[[BalanceBuff several]]'' [[BalanceBuff notches]]: her entire moveset was made significantly less laggy and more cohesive, and her grounded moveset is now entirely serviceable due to her tilts gaining more utility and a use for each situation — this is further complemented by her ''pseudo-invincible'' dash attack that makes any poorly timed attempt at landing against her backfire gloriously, and her disjointed grab that leads into either a reliable combo down throw that can set-up follow-ups into her nasty aerial game, or a new, inherently reliable kill throw with back throw. With the removal of custom moves, almost all of her specials were buffed (most notably, her down special CounterAttack was combined with her side special Reflect Barrier in a singular special move, and her previous custom neutral special Explosive Flame became her new side special). Her aerial game is also still excellent, even more so due to the universally reduced landing lag on aerial moves, with a moderately strong and ''pseudo-invincible'' back air, a strong multi-hit up air, a forward air that is still a reliable combo tool, and one of the fastest meteor smashes in the game with her down air. But by far, her most infamous move is her neutral air, as its large hitbox and anti-rebound priority makes it near impossible to challenge without projectiles or large enough disjoints, it's active for a long time, deals high damage, can KO at high percents, and can chain into itself many times at low percents for BRUTAL damage; it's easily among the best neutral airs in the game, so it's a guarantee any competent Palutena player will be using it a lot. These buffs, along with the lack of an impact her few nerfs had on her, caused her to [[JustForPun rise from darkness and back into the light]], winning her many more players at all levels of play and seemingly [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap rescuing her from the Scrappy heap]]... though given her simple playstyle compared to other characters, she also became [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome a commonly played character competitively]], with her most notable player being Nairo, who won two offline supermajor tournaments in Mainstage and Let's Make Big Moves with her. Of further note is that, in spite of many people claiming Palutena does much better offline, she still does consistently well in an online environment due to many of her worst matchups becoming milder in it, as can be attested to players like Chag. While general pro player consensus was that she's simple to play but lacks options to relieve pressure (meaning one error can still be costly), her infamy among low- and mid-level players got to the point several of them have complained about her very loudly (including "[[CreatorsPet Sakurai favoritism]]" claims), and ultimately considered her playerbase as [[AcceptableTargets the community's scapegoats]]. To the delight of many, updates eventually caught up to Palutena, with 7.0.0 bringing nerfs to neutral air's final hitbox and KO power and down throw's combo ability, and 11.0.0 increasing dash attack's endlag and forward air's landing lag, and —most importantly— drastically shortening her grab range, no longer being one of the longest (now being outranged by characters like, {{iron|y}}ically enough, ''Marth'') — while Palutena can still routinely get grabs due to her mobility, this did impactfully define her otherwise poor out of shield game, as she is now unable to punish certain moves that make other characters so oppressive (such as Roy's and Chrom's jab or Snake's reviled up tilt). The result was that Palutena's increased risk made much of her lower-level playerbase (especially {{Scrub}}s) ditch her — the people that stayed with her would find out she is still solid, as though despite an initially lackluster performance post-COVID-19 pandemic, she has earned great performances from players like Chag and [=Lui$=] as of the final stretch of 2021. It's still difficult to deifne whether her reign of top tier terror has finally ended or not, though given her infamy among the community, it's safe to say finding a person that likes Palutena is like finding a needle in a haystack.

* '''[[VideoGame/{{ARMS}} Min Min]]''' possesses great edgeguarding capabilities, as she can bully the majority of characters off stage very easily. She also has a great punish game with her up-throw and Dragon Laser. Her up-smash is one of the best anti-airs in the game due to its high kill power, absurd vertical range, speed, and reflector hitbox. Min Min's general moves also have good frame data for their long range unlike characters with similar amounts of range. She's become the most hated character in ''Japan'', which is saying something considering the country is well-known for their character diversity andadaptability. Many in Japan believe that Min Min may be a contender for a ''top 10'' character, due to how she gatekeeps a large chunk of characters who aren't agile enough to evade her arms and her Dragon Lasers. Even overseas, some top players believe Min Min resides in top-15, and it's generally agreed that she's in the upper echelons.

** In ''Brawl'', he's the game's worst character by a long shot, at one point even being ranked at his own "trash tier" below everyone else. While he has above-average power, he's way too slow, while being especially vulnerable to ''Brawl''[='=]s exploits. Unlike most low-tier induced scrappies, Ganon's perception is a bit more favorable, as many players find him fun to watch. Still, his low-tier status added to the demand to change him from a infamous MovesetClone of Captain Falcon to a more canon-adhering moveset.
** ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' made him a bit more mobile and even stronger, though he's still generally considered low tier. Despite this, he's looked upon more even more favorably than in ''Brawl'' thanks to his buffs; unlike other low tiers, Ganondorf is a crowd-pleaser when successful in higher-level matches. However, as a result of this, Ganondorf has the added reputation of being the character of choice for a lot of {{scrub}}s; the stereotype of the "For Glory Ganondorf" is a player who goes in expecting to kick ass, then gets punted around like a football and ragequits. As such, Ganondorf is fun to watch succeed in tournaments, but only because it doesn't happen very often.

* '''[[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]]'' has garnered a similarly distasteful opinion as other high-tier DLC characters. Whereas his fighting game brethren (Ryu, Ken and Terry) are sufficiently sturdy, Kazuya breaks the mold by being a super heavyweight with armor on just about all of his attacks. Kazuya's moveset is the largest in the franchise; not only does he have a move for every situation, a huge portion of his moveset deals double-digit damage ''per move''. Most if not all of his non-aerial moves also possess some degree of KO potential, and many of them render parts of his body invincible. Due to his origins as a fighting game character, Kazuya also possesses the same inherent combo ability his peers have, but beefier thanks to his obscene damage output and wide variety of options. All of this, combined with his endurance, makes Kazuya a terror to face. Kazuya does have his weaknesses in that his moveset and mobility are rather sluggish, he's very vulnerable to combos, he transitions poorly from the ground to the air, and his extensive moveset amounts to DifficultButAwesome being taken to [[ExaggeratedTrope its logical extreme]]. Kazuya is rarely seen in tournaments, but given his aforementioned traits and his endless potential once mastered, not everyone is a fan of fighting The Iron Fist of Darkness.

** In ''Smash 4'', Ness finally rose back into meta relevance. Ness is one of the most polarized characters in the game, with his strengths and weaknesses both being huge. His throw game is really strong, due to a reliable combo starting down through and the indisputable best backthrow in the game for killing. He also has really good aerials, especially his fast and powerful up-air and combo-friendly foward-air. And his improved viablity allowed his already strong PK-Thunder to become a serious annoyance to opponents stuck in the air. However, Ness' past weaknesses still held him back significantly. His poor range ensured a lot of difficulty against sword-characters. His recovery, while buffed significantly so that merely taking the hit immediately after it appears no longer interrupts it, was still very exploitable, especially if the opponent can absorb it, ensuring Ness' recovery remained among the weaker in the game. Thus while improved, he was stuck as a classic mid-tier SkillGateCharacter: annoying to more casual players, but with limited success at the competitive level.
** In ''Ultimate'', despite his down throw getting nerfed into no longer being as reliable of a combo starter, overall consensus is Ultimate is his best incarnation yet. His PK Fire got buffed and can rack up insane damage and can grab players and go to town on them. His up air, at the cost of knockback and multi-hit unreliability, has faster startup and great combo potential. His yo-yo smash attacks had their charging hitboxes restored, and can now even be used off the edge to score some easy kills. Also, he majorly benefits from having one of the best directional air dodges in the game, vastily improving his recovery. Furthermore, his PK thunder has become even more annoying, as the changes to air dodges make it even harder to avoid. Also, his Down-Special PSI-Magnet was buffed so that it now has a hitbox that can guarantee follow-ups on hit, including a kill-confirm into back-air. Combine all this with the lag Online and Ness became an absolute pain to deal with. Competitively, his worst matchups continue to be against characters who outrange him, such as most of the Sword characters, or who beat his aerials with their own and edgeguard him. Ness still has his weaknesses, but overall, due to his already established infamy in the casual scene combined with him actually posing a serious threat in bracket, Ness is now a widely hated character to fight regardless of skill level.

** In ''Smash 4'', Ness finally rose back into meta relevance. Ness is one of the most polarized characters in the game, with his strengths and weaknesses both being huge. Ness' grab game is arguably the best in the entire cast due to his down and back throws. His Down Throw is one of the best combo throws in the game, easily putting opponents in the position to be hit by his aerial combos. His Back Throw is arguably the best throw in the game period, due to being the best and most reliable kill throw by a long shot. His aerials are also very strong and grant him a variety of combo and kill options. His up air, in particular, is one of the best aerials in the game due to having a low startup, a massive hitbox, solid damage output, and strong knockback, allowing it to be used as both a combo and KO option. However, on the flipside, Ness' mobility is rather poor and the range of his attacks, despite some of them being disjointed, are lacking. This gives him a great deal of trouble against sword characters, who can easily wall him out with their large hitboxes. Though, his greatest weaknesses is undoubtedly his recovery. Ness has one of the most unorthodox recoveries in the game. His Up B, PK Thunder, will spawn a small thunder ball and the player with briefly losing control of Ness in order to control the thunder ball. If the player manages to hit Ness with the thunder ball, he'll shoot like a rocket in the direction opposite to the side he was hit on. This technique is known as PK Thunder 2 and it serves as both a very powerful attack and Ness's only recovery move. However, because the move is completely reliant upon steering PK Thunder into Ness, it's a very gimmicky move. While [[BalanceBuff buffed]] from previous iterations, if PK Thunder hits anything other than Ness after about its first quarter circle, he'll still fall helplessly to his death. As a result, opponents can use their attacks on the thunder ball to make it disappear, push Ness out of the way, or will jump into the thunder ball and take the damage causing it to disappear. Most infamously, characters such as Rosalina, Villager, and even Ness, himself, can use their absorbing moves to dispose of the thunder ball, too. Because of how easy it is to gimp him, Ness' recovery is one of the worst in a game where nearly all of the cast has, at the very least, a serviceable recovery. Ness was initially seen as a top-tier character upon ''Smash 4''[='=]s release, however, due to players learning how to fight him and exploit his huge weaknesses, he has drastically fallen off. On the most recent 4BR tier list, Ness was placed 28th, thus becoming an upper-mid tier character. On the other hand, casual players especially seem to hate Ness, due to their inability to exploit his major weaknesses to the degree competitive players can.
** In ''Ultimate'', despite his down throw getting nerfed into no longer being as reliable of a combo starter as it previously was, overall consensus is that he was made stronger. It's pretty much agreed that his PK Fire which got buffed does way too much damage and can rack up insane damage and can grab players and go to town on them. His up air, at the cost of doing less knockback than it did back previously, has faster startup and more combo potential. His yo-yo smash attacks had their charging hitboxes restored, and can now even be used off the edge to score some easy kills. Also, he majorly benefits from having one of the best directional air dodges in the game, making his recovery less linear and interruptible. Furthermore, his PK thunder has become even more annoying, as the changes to air dodges make it even harder to avoid. Also, at the highest levels, you will see Ness players make great use of his majorly buffed PSI Magnet, which now has a hitbox that doesn't scale to damage, making a great combo tool, mix-up option, and still having the absorbing power of previous versions. Combine all this with the lag Online and Ness became an absolute pain to anyone who isn't Mr. Game and Watch, Villager or Isabelle. Competitively, his worst matchups tend to be against characters who outrange him, such as most of the Sword characters, or who beat his aerials with their own. He still has his weaknesses, but with 3 Ness mains having made it into Genesis 6 top 48 and several others proving to be a major force in competitive play, he's not a character to be slept on. Overall, due to his already established infamy in the casual scene combined with him actually posing a threat in bracket, Ness remains a hated character to fight regardless of skill level, in a fashion similar to Snake and Cloud.

* '''[[Franchise/DragonQuest Hero]]''' is likely ''the'' most contentious both example in ''Super Smash Bros.'' history. He is designed around RPG elements, boasting an MP system and some of the most luck-based mechanics ever put in a ''Smash'' game, if not fighting games period, which allows for absurdly early kills: He has a 1/8th chance of critical hits with smash attacks that can kill or shatter shields with ease. His menu down special that has tons of great options such as stat buffs with the most infamous ones being Whack/Thwack[[note]]random chance of a OneHitKill with odds increasing with percent[[/note]], Zoom[[note]] A guaranteed recovery from anywhere at a minimal 8 MP cost and increased odds if near blast zones[[/note]] Bounce[[note]]Temporarily reflects all projectiles[[/note]], Kamikaze [[note]]A SuicideAttack with a big, unblockable blast radius and extreme kill power, just [[EpicFail avoid using it on your last stock]][[/note]], and Magic Blast[[note]] uses all leftover mp, but at max mp creates a [[InstantDeathRadius massive explosion that can easily kill at zero]][[/note]]. It further doesn't help that menu acts as a language barrier to any foreign players to a region. He also has a very strong special moveset to maximize his MP usage. However, this all comes at the expense of a dismal to terrible normal moveset (particularly a painfully slow back-air, similarly slow dash-attack, and extremely situational up-smash) and he becomes very vulnerable if caught off stage from very low and/or with low mana. The luck and language issues led to [[https://www.destructoid.com/smash-ultimate-s-hero-is-banned-by-a-major-australian-tournament-organizer-563935.phtml some banning]] [[https://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-france-bans-hero-and-future-dlc-characters-from-official-smash-bros-ultimate-tournaments/ him outright]]. On the other hand, Hero's weaknesses and heavy reliance on luck would lead to overall dismal results, with only a few players continuing to use him to middling success or as a secondary.

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the otherwise expected DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only other characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their sheer ubiquity.

** In ''Smash 4'', the elimination of chaingrabbing wasn't enough to get DK viewed as anything higher than low-mid tier. The 1.1.0 patch changed everything for him by reducing the knockback of his up-throw, granting him an effective combo starter that allowed him to rack up damage frighteningly quick. Donkey Kong would garner respectable placings from many players throughout the remainder of ''Smash 4'', his most notable achievement being a 7th place finish at 2GG: Civil War, regarded as the most difficult ''Smash 4'' tournament. By the end of ''Smash 4'', DK was viewed as a respectable high-tier character.

* '''[[VideoGame/PunchOut Little Mac]]''' competes with Ganondorf for the title of the worst character in ''Ultimate''. His niche as a neutral-focused, grounded fighter is not only done better by other characters, but his neutral is lackluster compared to much of the cast. Even with his recovery buff to his side special and air speed, he's still got a very poor recovery that is further nerfed by airdodge mechanics. All these stats lead Mac to be a character whose polarizing ground-based nature works ''against'' him, causing even the most well-known of Little Mac mains from the previous game to abandon him. He would even stay firmly at the bottom in spite of several balance patches that helped him. Mac's core concept of being dominant on the ground but useless in the air will probably doom him to low-tier status forever; it's very easy to bait him into doing something unsafe, getting him offstage, and letting him fall to his death.

** In the earlier days of ''Smash 64'''s competitive play, he was considered the third-best after the Pikachu and Kirby, and thought to have a combo game that approached GameBreaker levels (especially with his nasty double jump cancel and surprisingly strong attacks). As the metagame advanced, however, players learned to really take advantage of Ness' easily exploited recovery, and their superior spacing made Ness' lack of reach on his attacks much more apparent. The result is plummeting to being perceived as one of the game's weaker characters as the 3rd worst, eliminating this perception. However, a few less-experienced players do still come along who view Ness as too strong, as they had yet to learn how to exploit Ness' flaws. [[note]]He was also significantly stronger in the original Japanese version, where he's still 5th.[[/note]]

* Much like Ness, '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Jigglypuff]]''' has had one of the bumpiest runs out of anyone in the series' history, with it going from a mid, to high, to low tier scrappy, to again a mixed bag in its appearances. The few thing that have remained consistent is its abysmal weight, floatiness, and respectable air game.

** In ''Brawl'', he's the game's worst character by a long shot, at one point even being ranked at his own "trash tier" below everyone else. While he has above-average power, he's way too slow, while being especially vulnerable to ''Brawl''[='=]s exploits. Unlike most low-tier induced scrappies, Ganon's perception is a bit more favorable, as many players find him fun to watch. Still, wis low-tier status added to the demand to change him from a infamous MovesetClone of Captain Falcon to a more canon-adhering moveset.
** ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' made him a bit more mobile and even stronger, though he's still generally considered low tier. Despite this, he's looked upon more even more favorably than in ''Brawl'' thanks to his buffs; unlike other low tiers, Ganondorf is a crowd-pleaser when successful in higher-level matches. However, as a result of this, Ganondorf has the added reputation of being the character of choice for a lot of {{scrub}}s; the stereotype of the "For Glory Ganondorf" is a player who goes in expecting to kick ass, then gets punted around like a football and ragequits. As such, Ganondorf is fun to watch succeed in tournaments, but only because it doesn't happen very oten.
** ''Ultimate'' heavily buffed him, but he nonetheless stayed at the bottom. Ganondorf is a severe case of a SkillGateCharacter; he hits harder than several other characters, and has pretty fast attacks, including a surprisingly good neutral-air. However, his bad air speed and lackluster recovery plus large frame and high weight still render him vulnerable to being combos and being gimped while offstage. Although his moveset still has plenty of detractors, the sheer amount of aesthetic and mechanical improvements that Ganondorf got makes him a sympathetic tier-induced scrappy than a hated one.

** In the first tier list of ''Melee'', Mewtwo was at the bottom. Not only was it super light and easy to hit, but it also lacked severely in KO moves. This conundrum, combined with the [[GameplayAndStorySegregation shear irony]] of Pokémon's most famous legendary being so bad, ensured a lot of mockery. Despite its bottom-tier position, its dedicated playerbase found that Mewtwo was actually more effective than many thought it to be, with its practically ungimpable recovery and powerful throws. It's still not a competitive threat, but at least it did gain relatively more respect than its early days.

** In ''Ultimate'', people were hoping that the quality of life improvements which Brawler and Gunner got would also extend to the Swordfighter, but no dice. Players did find a useful kill confirm, but it didn't help much. The Swordfighter's zoning and projectiles have subpar frame data and easy counter play. And for a swordsman, its range is pretty bad. Coupled with the Swordfighter's sluggish movement, poor frame data, and lack of reliable combos, it frequently places low on most tier lists. There are a few Swordfighter users who think that it can rise up, but the Swordfighter is fighting an uphill battle.

** With his introduction in ''Smash 4'', he had some decent attributes: solid smash attacks and aerials, a good recovery move with his Clown Kart Dash, his Mechakoopas for a decent stage control option, and his jab being very good at kill confirms. That said, Junior's weaknesses are glaring. His Clown Cannon is the worst charge shot in the game as it can't be stored, can only have oneat a time, and the shot is slow, predictable, and punishable. His Mechakoopa has a long start up time and can be used back at him. He can easily get gimped off stage because he can't use his recovery again until he lands or grabs a ledge. Lastly, his throws have no inherent combo or KO potential, making them the game's worst. The few people who used Bowser Jr. dropped him quickly, leaving Bowser Jr. to languish among the bottom tiers as a result.
** In ''Ultimate'', even though many moves of his did get buffed, it wasn't enough. He's now able to have two cannonballs in play at once and they deal far more shield damage, and his recovery gained more uses. But both are still very predictable and easy to punish. And the nerfs he got were glaring: his Mechakoopa now deactivates when it hits a shield, he can't airdodge out of Clown Kart Dash, and his forward tilt has been given a sourspot. The end result was a character perceived as even worse than his already-bad ''Smash 4'' iteration. He got some substantial buffs in patch 3.1.0, but they weren't enough to significantly improve his standing. While Bowser Jr. is no longer considered a contender for worst fighter in the game, he's still seen as deserving of his spot near the bottom.

* '''[[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon Incineroar]]''' is a MightyGlacier that's too much Glacier and not enough Mighty. Incineroar has very bad mobility, including the slowest run speed in ''Ultimate'' and the second-slowest in the entire ''Smash'' series, coupled with a bad recovery. Due to said terrible mobility, many characters can just camp him out because Incineroar cannot catch up to them. In addition, Revenge loses time when attacks don't connect, too much time passes, or he gets thrown. And for a suppsoed powerhouse, his launch power isn't anything noteworthy. While he did get some buffs, this didn't fix the problems in his overall design, causing him to still be considered bad. However, Incineroar has a similar reputation in that his slow speed but extreme power can end up in flashy, hard-hitting punishes, making him a crowd-pleaser when successful and thus making him more of a sympathetic tier-induced scrappy rather than a detested one.

* [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Mewtwo]]''' is an extremely light GlassCannon with a tall frame and large hurtbox - a tried-and-true recipe for low-tier scrappydom.

* In stark contrast to his nephew, who has been sitting comfortably in the high tiers since ''Brawl'', '''[[Franchise/DonkeyKong Donkey Kong]]''' has had quite an unfortunate run over the course of the series with the exception of ''Smash 4'', where he was quite an effective grappler due to one significant BalanceBuff.
** In ''64'', he was a notoriously weak character. A classic MightyGlacier archetype, he has some decent attributes, such as an infinite grab release combo against all but 3 characters, his powerful charge move in his neutral special, high endurance due to his weight, and his up special can deny some recoveries with its priority. However, his moveset is slow, his large size and heavy weight ensure he gets comboed harder than anyone else (in a game where they make up a large part of the metagame[[note]]To the point that in the original Japanese version where Smash Directional Influence (the game’s combo breaker mechanic) was weaker, he's outright considered the worst character in the game with no matchups in his favor, especially his matchup against Kirby, which is considered almost impossible for him to win.[[/note]]), has a passable horizontal but horrendous vertical recovery, is slow in the air, and in true MightyGlacier fashion, struggles against projectile characters who can camp him out.
** Despite receiving some improvements in the transition from ''64'' to ''Melee'', Donkey Kong still remained in the lower half of the tier list due to his vulnerability to chaingrabbing and very predictable recovery resulting in him getting absolutely demolished by the majority of the game's high and top tiers. However, recent developments in the ''Melee'' meta have found that Donkey Kong does have an edge in two particular top tier matchups (though the matchups still remain unfavorable for the big ape), specifically Marth and Jigglypuff. With Marth, Donkey Kong can actually keep up with him in neutral and negate most of Marth's combo starters through crouch canceling and combo him in turn, while against Jigglypuff, he is one of the only characters to have guaranteed KO setups on the puffball. Regardless, Donkey Kong still lurks in the lower half of the ''Melee'' tier list due to his poor matchups against the rest of the game's top tiers, his only notable usage coming from Rishi, who uses him as a counterpick.
** Donkey Kong would see further improvements in ''Brawl'' that actually led to him being viewed as a solid high-tier in the game's early lifespan, though his rank would slowly decline as many of his old weaknesses like vulnerability against edgeguards and (especially) chaingrabbing began to be exploited by the playerbase. However, Donkey Kong does have notable strengths, the most significant of which is his near-unrivaled horizontal endurance, rivaled by only Mr. Game & Watch due to Spinning Kong's outstanding momentum cancelling ability, and is relatively fast for a character of his weight class, meaning that while there are certain matchups where he just gets shut down by camping, Donkey Kong actually does have a fighting chance against certain high and top tiers, the most notable of which are Marth and Lucario. Unfortunately, these strengths were not enough to compensate for Donkey Kong's major weaknesses, and he remains in the lower end of mid-tier.
** In ''Smash 4'', Donkey Kong was viewed very poorly at the start of the game's lifespan, though players would come to recognize that he had indeed received some significant buffs in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''Smash 4'', among which was the complete elimination of chaingrabbing, though they were not enough to get him viewed as anything higher than low-mid tier. DK would receive some small, but helpful improvements over the course of the game's lifespan, but the 1.1.0 patch changed everything for him by reducing the knockback of his cargo up throw, granting him an incredibly effective combo starter that allowed him to rack up damage frighteningly quick and sometimes even gain situational kills off the top with the shoulder hitbox of Giant Punch. The most notable thing that came with the cargo up throw buff, however, was a new, and most importantly, reliable kill confirm across the entire cast with his up aerial at certain percentage ranges, which was christened the "Ding Dong," in a similar vein to Diddy Kong's infamous "Hoo-Hah." Donkey Kong would garner respectable placings from many players throughout the remainder of ''Smash 4'', the most notable of which included Tweek and Larry Lurr, who used him as secondaries, and HIKARU, a Japanese Donkey Kong player that was regarded as the best solo Donkey Kong in the world by the end of ''Smash 4'', his most notable achievement being a 7th place finish at 2GG: Civil War, regarded as one of, if not the most difficult ''Smash 4'' tournament in the game's competitive lifespan. By the end of ''Smash 4'', Donkey Kong was viewed as a respectable high-tier character alongside fellow grappler Bowser.
** In ''Ultimate'', while DK did receive numerous buffs to many of his moves, the few nerfs he did receive dramatically offset what he had gained in the transition between games, the most notable of which was his cargo up throw getting its knockback increased, which not only stripped away most of its combo potential, but also resulted in his Ding Dong getting nerfed to the point where it can only be initiated on platforms and has to be done in a different fashion. Donkey Kong also possesses an egregiously unsafe kit, meaning that ''he'' will usually be punished for landing a move on an opponent for a ridiculous amount of damage due to his abysmal defensive game meaning he has no reliable get-off-me tools to get out of disadvantage. The significant nerfs DK received caused much of his playerbase from ''Smash 4'' to drop him, notably Tweek and HIKARU, and caused him to be viewed as a low-tier and potentially one of the worst characters in the game. However, balance patches would provide small, but somewhat helpful buffs to Donkey Kong, and with a dedicated player community looking to optimize the character along with some other dedicated professionals such as Runes (who upset KEN at 2GG: Kongo Saga) and YMCA, have somewhat improved his standings in the eyes of many pros. Additionally, at the start of 2020, HIKARU would readd Donkey Kong to his roster of characters as a co-main to his Pokémon Trainer, and got 5th at Sumabato SP 12, a rather stacked Japanese B-tier event, going solo Donkey Kong. While there have been some solid Donkey Kong placings, his flaws are very exploitable and as more characters get added into ''Ultimate'' Donkey Kong finds himself outclassed by many fighters. That said, Donkey Kong is ''very'' scary with momentum on his side and can easily turn the tide of battle with one or two good reads.
* '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Link]]''' in every game up until ''Smash 4'' was hit with this. He had consistently had a poor or outright terrible recovery, with very sluggish mobility and moves, while his projectiles were among the least effective and his power output wasn't that great for how slow a character he is. The result is a MightyGlacier who wasn't that mighty, and thus fared terribly in competitive play. It also doesn't help that he has not one but ''two'' younger, faster counterparts in the series who are ''considerably'' better than him (Young Link in ''Melee'', Toon Link in ''Brawl'' and ''4'', both in ''Ultimate''), and that he tends to attract many less experienced players who tend to be overly vocal about their disbelief in tiers, leading to more competitive players to look down upon him in backlash to such players. In the fourth game, he got some much-needed buffs; although they weren't quite enough to offset his mobility issues and lacking frame data, they were enough that he remained on the middle of the viability spectrum.
** However, the buffs he received in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' worked a little too well on For Glory mode; Link along with his Toon counterpart tended to be a face for the stereotypical For Glory players due to most of them spamming his projectiles non-stop. The lag depending on the connection of some matches tended to drive the issue up further, since it makes it harder to go around them and as a result, players often fall to racking up too much damage and then getting exposed to Link's very nasty kill moves.
** With the release of ''Ultimate'', however, he seems to have averted this, as he was given a quicker non-tether grab and his base moves and projectiles received many buffs, with his bomb special being completely reworked to the remote variant seen in ''Breath of the Wild'', gaining tons of knockback and damage, stage control utility, combo potential and, with enough practice, even bolstering his lackluster recovery by detonating it on himself, sending him back towards the stage. This combined with even better frame data and knockback growth on his moves puts him in a much better position, and his viability and use has since skyrocketed. Many initially argued that the returning Young Link outshined him with quicker moves and flashier combos, but ironically all three Links find themselves in the higher tiers thanks to their own distinguishing traits, with Link being noted for the aforementioned combination of strong-hitting moves with good range and frame data.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Metroid}} Samus]]''' in every game except ''Melee'' and ''Ultimate''. Like Link, she's a beloved and badass Nintendo icon. However, in most of her appearances, she has to deal with a lackluster melee game in order to encourage use of her (very limited array of) projectiles, which aren't anything to write home about themselves. Also thanks to her floaty nature and weak moves on base knockback, this gives her very limited combo game and some of the worst [=KO=]ing ability in the series as well as having some moves of hers being easy to punish due to said floatiness. To add insult to injury, Zero Suit Samus (her canonically weaker unarmored [[MsFanservice fanservice-y]] form) has been a much more effective character than regular Samus since her debut.
** Samus' ''Smash 4'' incarnation is a mixed bag in regards to this trope. She was considered by some to be one of the worst characters in the game, but she has been buffed from her lackluster ''Brawl'' version and has had a couple of noteworthy tournament successes, with her players continuing to find new tricks to use with her similar to ''Melee'' Mewtwo (such as her Charge Shot combos, her combo game in general, and the various uses of her bombs and projectiles). However, the problem remains that Samus is generally considered a low-tier character, in contrast to her Zero Suit form being one of the absolute best characters in the game; similar to Shulk, players view her as a difficult-to-learn character with potential once mastered, but not nearly as much potential as similarly difficult high-tier characters such as Ryu. For the extra salt rubbing, Samus' jab fails to connect both its hits properly, which was seemingly an ''intentional'' design flaw, as an in-game tip states it happens and you should "run away" after connecting the first hit instead of following through with the second like any sensible player would (additionally, every other unreliable jab has been getting fixed through these patches, ''except'' Samus'). The backlash against ''Smash 4'' Samus was additionally ignited by the game's director, Sakurai, infamously stating Samus was the best character in the game at the ''Super Smash Bros. Invitational'' in response to none of the participants picking her, which fans now use to mock Samus farther when it turned out she was very far away from being the best character (though to be fair to Sakurai, the players were using a beta build for the game at the Invitational, and Samus was better in that version according to the players who played it). This sentiment almost immediately disappeared after patch 1.1.5, in which Samus was one of the biggest beneficiaries of buffs. Buffs such as improving her mobility in the air and making her previously unreliable dash attack into an extremely effective combo starter, as well as damage increases on moves and tweaking others for better improvements to her arsenal, increased her viability by a massive margin. Not soon after, Samus' started to make top finishes a lot more frequently within the first weeks after the patch. She is currently regarded as low to mid tier, but it seems that her "Scrappy" status competitively has faded away thanks to the well-needed adjustments.
** Hilariously, many fans ''speculated'' during the pre-release period for ''Ultimate'' that Samus (and to an extent, Dark Samus) would be this once again, with some people even calling her the potential worst character in the game (largely mocking her lack of overhauls initially compared to Link to the point of retaining her awful jab from ''Smash 4''), but the game's release proved them wrong as she settled into being a viable and respected character in the meta. Her Charge Shot is feared as one of the best projectiles in the game, especially considering she can jump-cancel it and charge it in the air. Not only that, its sheer utility allows her to create pressure (being one of the only projectiles that was buffed on shieldstun), KO as in past iterations, and even lead into combos and KO setups. Missiles and Bombs increased in utility as well, being more effective at hitting the opponent and detonating on contact, respectively. The 7.0.0 patch saw Samus as a recipient of major buffs, including her already great Dash Attack being a better KO option, stronger Up/Down Smashes, a strong Z-Air that controls space to greater effect, and even a KO throw. Since the patch, Samus is seen as a solid contender for the higher tiers in her best tier-wise position since Melee.
* Being one of Nintendo's biggest female characters, '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Zelda]]''' is considered bottom tier across almost all the ''Smash'' games she's been in for having poor mobility, weak tilts, hit or miss aerials, extremely bad specials (Din's Fire being considered a joke by most competitive players because of how ridiculously easy it is to dodge/shield and how it has a short time before it actually can hit), and a bad grab with terrible or otherwise underwhelming throws. A common joke about Zelda is, prior to the release of ''Smash 4'', that her best attack is her down special[[note]]the joke being, down special transforms Zelda into Sheik, a consistent high-tier character[[/note]]. Not helping matters is the fact ''Smash 4'' got rid of her ability to transform into Sheik, which has solidified her status as a MemeticLoser and ButtMonkey with the fandom.
** Zelda's ''Ultimate'' incarnation has seen much love thanks to much needed buffs and changes in her moves, and she's earned decently strong regional results in ''Ultimate'' tournaments. Despite having not made much impact on the competitive metagame and the negative image she has in online play, Zelda's zoning tools and strengths were seen as an upgrade from her prior iterations. The 7.0 patch cemented her identity as a unique-style of glass-cannon zoner. While light and slow, her moves either have range, or pack a serious punch that can seal stocks at low percents. Most notably, every Special in her arsenal is lethal and allows her to be a threat at a distance. Nayru's Love has invulnerable frames that allow her to combo break, Din's Fire's explosion is large and lingers, even [=KOing=] at the center, Farore's Wind doubles as a great recovery move and a KO option that can take stocks early, and her newly-acquired Phantom is an amazing and versatile tool that wards off or sets up against the opponent in any way she so desires. Despite her buffs, Zelda is, at the very best, seen at the lower level of mid-tier as her flaws are still as exploitable as ever.
* Mario's doctor persona '''VideoGame/DrMario''' was very viable back in ''Melee'', being superior than his progenitor in nearly all aspects, however, after his return to the series in ''Smash 4'', the doc has consistently ranked within the lowest tiers in the game.
** After being one of ''Melee''[='=]s most successful mid-tiers and a superior clone to Mario, he has fallen to this in his return in ''Smash 4''. Unlike in ''Melee'', where the developers apparently forgot to make Doc slower than Mario as intended, they actually went through with it this time, resulting in a character that was received as "painfully sluggish". When handling Doc this time, the devs added a 0.82 multiplier to Mario's mobility while adding a 1.12 multiplier to the damage of Mario's attacks. The theory is that Doc moves a bit slower while hitting a bit harder, but the result is far from that. The result is a character who moves ''even slower'' than the aforementioned Dedede (whereas Mario is one of the most mobile characters in the game), while the power multiplier increase isn't proportional to the mobility multiplier reduction, resulting in an unbalanced and very flawed character (his attacks appear to do much more knockback than Mario's while not dealing enough damage to match the increase, effectively ruining his combo game too). Doc's KO moves are additionally considered worse than Mario's for being harder to land (namely his forward smash) while being inconsequentially stronger, and Doc has a recovery that is seen on par with Little Mac's and default Ganondorf's for worst in the game (two of his moves were nerfed while one of them didn't even change). And to make matters even worse for the good Doc, he has the same weight (not falling speed) as Mario meaning he's launched just as far while not being able to make it back to the stage as well as his regular counterpart. Doc is considered completely outclassed by his clone stock Mario (don't even get us started on the ''Smash'' fandom's relationship with clone characters), resulting in his perception dwindling even farther. Doc has been getting consistently buffed in patches, but they only been slight power increases to a few select moves, rather than addressing his more significant issues. However, two things happened to make the outlook bright for Doc's viability. First was the influx of players that still played the character and managed to get far, despite the scrappy, which showed that Dr. Mario, with all of his power, still retains the same fast frame data that Mario has and actually has some things that only he can do, therefore garnering him a niche in some match-ups. Secondly and more importantly was the 1.1.1 patch (which fellow clone scrappy Lucina benefited from), which increased shieldstun based on damage output. Considering Dr. Mario's damage output has been steadily rising, this was a huge boon as it lets him become safer with his very fast and powerful moves, such as Back-Air. While some argue for his viability, his flaws still persist and the general consensus is that he is only good as a counterpick character for the time being.
** In ''Ultimate'', he is once more in this spot, for more or less the same reasons as in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''. That is, his sluggishness is still considered a core flaw of the character (especially when his recovery is universally thought as one of the poorest in the game. He fights like a MightyGlacier, but lacks the bulk you'd expect of the archetype), even if he has received some damage-racking buffs from the transition to ''Ultimate'', with patch 7.0.0 handing him even more buffs to his K.O. abilities. The consensus is that he's still vastly outclassed by old regular Mario in competitive play. When discussions about "worst fighter in the game" are brought up, Dr. Mario's name tends to appear along with Ganondorf and Little Mac.
* Rounding out the Triforce trio is the Great King of Evil himself and one of video games' greatest villains, '''[[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Ganondorf]]'''. As a MightyGlacier, he had one of the most extreme examples of the series. While decently viable in ''Melee'', every game afterwards he was one of the characters consistently ranked within the lowest tiers in the game.
** In ''Brawl'', he was infamously the game's worst character, at one point even being ranked at his own tier at the absolute bottom on the Smash Back Room's tier list (something that even [[JokeCharacter Pichu]] and [[MasterOfNone Kirby]] never accomplished in ''Melee''). In short, much like Bowser in ''Melee'', while he has above-average power, he's waaaay too slow and immobile, while being especially vulnerable to ''Brawl''[='=]s exploits, and was one of the hardest hit characters by ''Brawl''[='=]s new engine (most significantly, the removal of L-cancelling, which he heavily relied on in Melee, while his aerials weren't given reduced landing lag to compensate). Unlike most low-tier induced scrappies, Ganon's perception is a bit more favorable, as many players find him to be one of the game's funnest characters, and thus play him as a "low tier main" or play him when playing for fun (with a few players even outright maining him in spite of his perception). However, his low-tier status has also added much fuel to the fire for the demand to change his infamous MovesetClone portrayal of Captain Falcon to a more canon-adhering moveset.
** ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' buffed him, making him a bit more mobile with faster and even stronger attacks, though he's still generally considered low tier, especially without his custom moves that address some of his most significant shortcomings. Despite this, he's looked upon more even more favorably than in ''Brawl'' thanks to his buffs; unlike other low tiers[[note]]even the aforementioned Bowser, who outclasses Ganondorf in most respects[[/note]], Ganondorf is still a popular character to watch and play in less serious matches where the Ganon player tries to "disrespect" the foe with the flashiest and hardest-hitting moves possible, often to the point of [[AwesomeButImpractical impracticality]] and [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill overkill]], and (like in ''Brawl'') is a crowd-pleaser when successful in higher-level matches. However, as a result of this, Ganondorf has the added reputation of being the character of choice for a lot of {{scrub}}s; the stereotype of the For Glory Ganondorf who goes in expecting to kick asses and flex on everyone with utmost disrespect, then gets punted around like a football, gets pissed off, and then ragequits is a very real phenomenon, and unless you have an established reputation for being good with him, a lot of assumptions are likely to be made about you if you're playing him in a low-level environment.
** ''Ultimate'' gave Ganondorf some much-needed love and heavily buffed him, and he was initially believed to be a reasonably viable mid-tier character, but nonetheless he ended up again into this eventually. Ganondorf is the most severe case of a SkillGateCharacter, arguably much more than King K. Rool and the Belmonts; he hits harder than several other characters (for example, his reworked Forward Smash has become very infamous for his great range and can kill at very low percents; even heavy characters like Bowser, Donkey Kong and King Dedede get killed at around 70% from center stage), and despite being a MightyGlacier has pretty fast attacks such as his neutral air which is his best attack since it hits hard and is [[HitboxDissonance awkwardly disjointed]]. Combined this with the significantly reduced landing lag, and it can be a sheer pain to deal with Ganondorf. However, his bad air speed and lackluster recovery plus large frame and high weight still render him incredibly vulnerable to being comboed and subsequently gimped while offstage, especially against swordfighters and projectile users such as Samus, Yoshi, R.O.B, Villager, and Peach. Nonetheless, although his moveset still has plenty of detractors, the sheer amount of aesthetic and mechanical improvements that Ganondorf got, changed some of the overall sentiment towards him from "for the love of God Sakurai, just please declone him at least a bit" to "he's fun and awesome to play and watch, but he's sadly doomed due to his general design", making him more of a sympathetic tier-induced scrappy like fellow Mighty Glaciers Incineroar and King Dedede (see below) rather than a hated one.
* The [[Main/OlympusMons Legendary Pokemon]]''' [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Mewtwo]]''' is an extremely light GlassCannon with a tall frame and large hurtbox - a tried-and-true recipe for low-tier scrappydom in all its appearances even as it evolved from a MasterOfNone to a FragileSpeedster, with the only exception being its stint as a top tier in ''Smash 4'' after its {{Balance Buff}}s.
** Mewtwo got a lot of hate for being such an awful character in ''Melee''. In the first tier list of Melee in fact, it was the worst character. Not only was its hitbox huge and was shockingly light, it also lacked severely in ways to kill the opponent. This conundrum, combined with the [[GameplayAndStorySegregation shear irony]] of Pokémon's most famous legendary being so bad, ensured a lot of mockery and hate, to the point where some players reportedly signed a ''petition'' to keep it out of ''Brawl'' (and ironically when Mewtwo didn't come back in Brawl, [[AlasPoorScrappy casual and competitive players alike loudly mourned its removal]]). Hate for Mewtwo in ''Melee'' later cooled off significantly, however. Despite its bottom-tier position for a long time, its dedicated playerbase (which includes the renowned [=Mew2King=]) found that Mewtwo was actually more effective than many thought it to be, with its highly effective, practically ungimpable recovery, and the fact that all it needs to kill is a simple throw. It's still not a competitive threat, but at least it did gain relatively more respect than its early days. It still experiences a significant amount of mockery from many players, though, ensuring it may never {{never live it down}}.
** While the fandom rejoiced when it came back in ''Smash 4'', it was hit with this again despite its fairly significant buffs, as most players still find it underwhelming and too awkward to play, while its infamously low weight in ''Melee'' has been inexplicably made even ''lighter'', now being lighter than everyone except Jigglypuff (in a game where, due to the rage mechanic and generally easier recoveries, heavier weight to survive hits longer is more advantageous than ever). In fact, Mewtwo was initially ''nerfed'' from ''Melee'' in many ways, resulting in what could have been one of the worst characters in the game. Over time in ''Smash 4'', however, Mewtwo's viability skyrocketed with multiple patches addressing its "[[GlassCannon more glass than cannon]]" attributes and its dysfunctional hitboxes. After the 1.1.3 and 1.1.5 patches, Mewtwo now has very functional and powerful aerials, the 5th fastest running speed in the game, and a slight weight increase that now makes it a very dangerous glass cannon that can seal stocks fast with its high range and high damage output, completely wiping out its low-tier scrappy and putting Mewtwo in top tier.
** In ''Ultimate'', Mewtwo didn't fare quite as well, but at least fares better than its ''Melee'' incarnation. Its most notable and oft-mocked flaw is that it gained a hurtbox on its tail, making it much easier to hit despite its mobility. Additionally, its neutral game was toned down directly, and its air dodge, previously one of its biggest advantages, suffered significantly from the universal changes in ''Ultimate''. As a result, there has been significant debate on its viability, though consensus is that it resides in mid-tier, with its standing having been helped by the multitude of buffs it received through patches. A few people also theorize that, as soon as Mewtwo gets buffs in the areas that deserve to be fixed, such as its tail, Mewtwo could be a contender for high tier.
* Out of the three flavors the UsefulNotes/{{Mii}} Fighters come in ([[CloseRangeCombatant Brawler]], [[LongRangeFighter Gunner]], and [[JackOfAllStats Swordfighter]]), the '''Mii Swordfighter''' really stands out in this regard.
** Early in ''Smash 4'', the Swordfighter was sometimes labeled as being literally ''the'' worst character in the game. Some early tier lists even considered it so bad that it was placed by itself all the way at the bottom in a tier below everyone else. Problems include generally poor mobility, weak offense, and a lot of lag in its attacks. Mii Swordfighter, however, has been one of the biggest recipients of buffs, and while the previous stigma still remains, many players begun to see the Mii Swordfighter as a pretty competent fighter.
** In ''Ultimate'', people were hoping that the Swordfighter would rise in the tier lists, considering the quality of life improvements Brawler and Gunner got. Players did find a useful kill confirm with Gale Strike (default special) into Hero's Spin (custom up special 2), but it didn't help much. The Swordfighter's zoning and projectiles don't have amazing frame data and have easy counter play, and for a swordsman, its range is unspectacular. Coupled with the Swordfighter's sluggish movement, poor frame data, and lack of reliable combos means that it frequently places low on most tier lists. There are a few Swordfighter users who think that it can rise up, but more often than not, the Swordfighter is fighting an uphill battle.
* Following in his father's footsteps from ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' is '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Bowser Jr.]]''', who is best described as a [[LongRangeFighter zoner]] who is incompetent at zoning:
** With his introduction in ''Smash 4'', while he had some decent attributes, like solid smash attacks and aerials (especially his up air), a good burst movement option and recovery move with his side-b Clown Kart Dash, his Mechakoopas make for a decent stage control option or projectile, and his jab being a surprisingly strong kill move (though it was easily escapable with good DI (directional influence)), he's severely held back by his glaring weaknesses. His Clown Cannon is the worst charge shot in the game as it can't be stored for later, can only have one on screen at a time, and the shot is slow, predictable, and punishable. His Mechakoopa has a long start up time and can be used back at him. His recovery is a powerful KO move when the hammer hits, but he can easily get gimped off stage if interrupted with because he can't use it again until he lands or grabs a ledge. Lastly, his throws are very poor in that they have no inherent combo or KO potential. His best results in competitive play, such as a top 32 placement at EVO 2015, came only because of being Tweek's main at the time, who would later drop him for Cloud and rise to become a top 10 player in ''4'' and never look back, leaving Bowser Jr. to languish among the bottom tiers as a result.
** In ''Ultimate'' even though many moves of his did get buffed, most notably fixing his jab to be much more reliable, it wasn't enough in comparison to the other characters. For instance, he's now able to have two cannonballs in play at once and they deal far more shield damage, but wasn't enough on its own to fix its predictability problems, and his recovery can now respawn after some time so he at least has a chance at recovery, but is still highly vulnerable to gimps. And what few nerfs he got were extremely noticeable and glaring, his Mechakoopas now deactivate when it hits a shielded opponent, he can't airdodge out of Clown Kart Dash anymore making him more vulnerable off stage, and his forward tilt has been given a sourspot. The end result was being perceived as even worse than his already bad ''4'' iteration and being among the absolute worst characters in the game. He got some substantial buffs in patch 3.1.0, but they weren't enough to significantly improve his standing. In spite of his unpopularity, the Koopa King's son was able to amass impressive results from players such as Young Eevey and Ketchup, causing some players to reevaluate their opinions. While Bowser Jr. is far from a top-level threat, he is no longer considered a contender for worst fighter in the game.

* '''Luigi''' is the absolute worst character in the game. Although his combo ability is varied and versatile (as with most characters in the game), he boasts an absolutely devastating finisher in his the Super Jump Punch (which he can confirm into any of these combos), and he has a long distanced recovery, all of this is offset by a slew of overwhelming weaknesses; his mobility is painfully slow, his melee range is short, and his projectile in Fireball, while decent, is very easy to circumvent, resulting in a very poor neutral game. Additionally, while being a MovesetClone in terms of attacks, some of them are actually weaker, with the sole exception to it being Super Jump Punch. And finally, although his recovery is long-distanced, it is also easier to edgeguard because of his lower air speed. He has disputed with Link over who has the worse position on the tier list in the Americas and Europe, although he is considered to be better in Japan due to Donkey Kong occupying that spot (even if Luigi is now hard countered by Yoshi). Likely as a result of his poor balance, cue ''Melee'' where he was buffed exceptionally, gaining devastating aerials for example.

* Of all characters one would think of, '''Captain Falcon''' became this in ''Brawl''. Whereas Falcon's ''64'' and ''Melee'' incarnations were beloved top and high tier characters respectively, Falcon got hit by some fairly significant nerfs in the transition from ''Melee'' to ''Brawl'' (most notably to his famed Knee Smash forward aerial that was made ''much'' harder to sweetspot), but also got hit by ''Brawl''[='=]s new engine more than anybody (except maybe for Jigglypuff). The new hitstun cancelling mechanic in particular ruined Captain Falcon, as the opponent being able to act out of hitstun with an aerial attack near-instantaneously destroyed his combo game since his combos in ''Melee'' relied heavily upon the opponent remaining in hitstun to function (and since combos were one of Falcon's premier attributes, this took away what really made him shine). Falcon ended up being ridiculously ineffectual, to the point of being considered the game's worst character in its first year, and while his perception and tier placement improved a bit throughout ''Brawl''[='=]s lifespan, he was mostly treated as a JokeCharacter with few people that played him and even fewer that actually mained him competitively. Fortunately, as mentioned over ''High Tier'' for ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', he got the honors he deserved.

* ''For Wii U/[=3DS=]'' is notable in that most of its low-tier scrappies (except for Jigglypuff and King Dedede) managed to gain significant buffs that pushed them a little further so as not to become detested to use, including repeat offenders in Zelda and Ganondorf. However, there are a few notable examples that were saved at various points via balance patches, thus winning some respect and competitive relevance:
** '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Robin]]''', mainly for the fact that they have the slowest movement speed along with relatively weak projectiles that take far too long to charge for weak damage in return, and can easily be intercepted by ''any other projectile'' in the game. This, combined with their vulnerable recovery, one of the shortest-ranged grabs in the game on top of a below average set of throws, and a limited amount of times they can use their smash attacks and their special attacks before being rendered practically helpless, landed these characters straight into low tier territory. Fortunately, the 1.1.0 and 1.1.1 patches buffed them by giving them a combo throw and allowing them to deal more shield pressure, to the point that one player was able to defeat [=ZeRo's=] Sheik (the best player in the world using the best character in the game) using Robin in a major tournament, so it seems like they have finally broken out of this.
** The '''[[VideoGame/WiiFit Wii Fit Trainer]]''' was often mocked for being too ineffectual, mostly for the horrendously poor range on their attacks, many attacks that are outright dysfunctional, and a grab that can't reach short characters. However, with the discovery of Wii Fit Trainer's potent zoning game in their highly effective projectiles, some nasty combos, and their highly effective custom moves, a few Wii Fit Trainer players have made some remarkable tournament placements (including two getting into top 32 at EVO 2015's Smash 4 tournament, while players of many perceived high tier characters failed to get a single top 32 placement). In addition, the 1.1.0 patch gave Wii Fit Trainer some buffs (including fixing the grab), which when combined with the prior point, seems to be pointing to Wii Fit Trainer breaking out of this, even in spite of her painfully short range and dysfunctional hitboxes. Additionally, ''Ultimate'' saved her from becoming this trope, as she was noticeably buffed in her transition.
** Other notable characters that were considered lackluster during the game's lifespan but got saved to some extent in balance patches include Donkey Kong, Link, Samus (see the Series-Wide section for all three), Bowser, Roy, Charizard, Ike, Shulk (see Both's Series-Wide section for the five of them), Little Mac and, most notably, Mewtwo (as detailed in Series-Wide), Marth (more on him in High Tier's Series Wide section) and Lucina (see Both's Series-Wide section for her, too).

* '''[[VideoGame/PunchOut Little Mac]]''' competes with Ganondorf for the title of the worst character in ''Ultimate''. His combo-tilts have been gutted, forcing him to go for stray hits rather than combos. His niche as a neutral-focused, grounded fighter is not only done better by other characters, but his neutral is lackluster compared to much of the cast. Even with his recovery buff to his Jolt Haymaker side special and air speed, he's still got a very poor recovery that is further nerfed by airdodge mechanics and the fact that he can only use side special once per recover. Lastly, he only has one out-of-shield option in up smash that is prone to cross-ups. All these stats lead Mac to be a character whose polarizing nature works ''against'' him, causing even the most well-known of Little Mac mains from the previous game to abandon him. He would even stay firmly at the bottom in spite of balance patches that helped him. Mac's core concept of being dominant on the ground but useless in the air will probably doom him to low-tier status forever; it's very easy to bait him into doing something unsafe. The general consensus is that without a complete overhaul of his moves or absurdly buffing him, Mac is doomed to stay at the bottom. However, this hasn't stopped players such as Peanut and Kwaz from wrecking opponents with hit-and-run combos that leave the opponent with no space to breathe. If Mac is doomed to be the worst character in ''Ultimate'', he can at least be [[DamnedByFaintPraise the best "worst character" ever]].
* '''[[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon Incineroar]]''' sees little serious play compared to most of the roster, since he's a MightyGlacier that's too much Glacier and not enough Mighty. Incineroar has very bad mobility, including the slowest run speed in ''Ultimate'' and the second-slowest in the entire ''Smash'' series, coupled with a bad recovery. Due to said terrible mobility, many characters can just camp him out because Incineroar cannot catch up to them before they reset to neutral. In addition, Revenge loses time when attacks don't connect, too much time passes, or he gets thrown. Incineroar's knockback on his moves are also based off of based knockback, ironically giving him little KO power. While he did get some buffs, including patch 8.0.0 making Revenge stronger and his grabs faster, this didn't fix the problems in his overall design, causing him to still be considered bad. However, Incineroar has a similar reputation in that his slow speed but extreme power can end up in flashy, hard-hitting punishes, making him a crowd-pleaser when successful and thus making him more of a sympathetic tier-induced scrappy rather than a detested one.
* Another ''Pokemon'' rep, '''[[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Lucario]]''' has found himself in the low tiers in ''Ultimate'' after a decently strong showing in ''3DS/[=/=]Wii U''. His aura gimmick got nerfed pretty hard going into ''Ultimate'', and with many characters having kill combos there's a good chance Lucario wouldn't be able to maximize aura anyway. What really throws him in low tier is his poor frame and neutral game, which amounts to throwing out aerial attacks and hoping they don't have a way to punish them. Without good movement or neutral game options, Lucario often finds himself getting zoned out or rushed down by most of the cast and he has a difficult time trying to get momentum on his side. His recovery, while going a long distance, is very easy to intercept. Finally, his matchups against the top and high tiers (most notably Wario) are very difficult. Other than a few Lucario diehards, most players have left the character (most notably Japanese Lucario Tsu switching to Hero and Terry) until he gets some buffs.
* '''[[VideoGame/AnimalCrossingNewLeaf Isabelle]]''' has been consistently ranked poorly since launch. The first problem she has is being semi-clone of Villager, who is noticeably worse off from the previous title due to a combination of lower weight and few other changes, while their exceptional recovery is less so in a game where everyone else's was heavily boosted by the directional air dodge. As for Isabelle, while she does possess an above average ledge-trapping ability [[note]]The act of trying to predict and cover the options of an opponent getting back from a ledge grab situation[[/note]] due to the properties of her side-b and down-b, almost everything that differentiates her is to her detriment. She's even lighter than Villager. Her Smash attacks are faster, but much less powerful and/or versatile. Her Fishing Rod has some solid KO power and can catch some opponents beneath the stage, but is completely useless on shield and ''very'' punishable on whiff. Her Lloid Trap, essentially a mine that provides solid stage control in some matchups, can be effortlessly destroyed or even reflected by many. Like most of the other low tiers she’s far from useless, with some high level representation (most famously bocchi, who won a match against then-top Snake Ally in a stunning upset). Nonetheless, the consensus remains that there is very little reason to play her over Villager, making her a rarity in competitive play.
* Much like the [[VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSAndWiiU previous title]], balance patches in ''Ultimate'' have rescued some characters from scrappydom throughout various points in the game's lifespan.
** '''Captain Falcon''' was initially much worse off compared to ''Smash 4'' (though still miles better than he was in ''Brawl''), with both his strongest tools and notably, his turnaround dash being nerfed to the point that the latter is unanimously considered the worst in the game due to it pushing his hitbox backwards as he turns around to dash. As a result of his nerfs, Falcon's gameplan had taken a radical shift into more of a bait-and-punish archetype, and was considered to hover around the lower end of mid-tier due to his best players, Fatality and [=NickC=], gathering inconsistent results for much of 2019. However, some significant buffs in 3.1.0 and 8.0.0 significantly improved Falcon's combo and punish game, which, when combined with new techniques such as the instant double jump, or IDJ for short, make Falcon an incredibly scary character to go up against. This increased even more with 11.0.0, which stopped him getting Tech Checked with his up-B, where an opponent could just tech the up-B to stop the stage spike and just punish Falcon's recovery. As a result of said buffs, Falcon's reputation and representation among professional players has improved considerably, resulting in him becoming high tier in the eyes of many (with some players like ESAM and Larry Lurr considering him a top tier now, and even better than his previous incarnation) and a beloved character once again.
** When the game first dropped, '''[[Franchise/StreetFighter Ken Masters]]''' was seen as a low-mid tier character. While not ''bad'', Ken suffered from significant consistency issues with his ground chains and multi-hit attacks. Perhaps the biggest issue with him at first, was just being DifficultButAwesome and leaning ''way'' too hard on difficult to be viable. However, Ken has arguably been the biggest beneficiary of buffs of all the characters in ''Ultimate''. His multihits and ground combos are far more consistent and his middle and heavy Shoryukens are very fearsome kill moves that can even function as an anti-air. As it stands in 2021, Ken is regarded as a balanced high tier character; he has the strengths to do some serious damage but isn't overwhelmingly cheap to been seen as a top tier scrappy.
*** Much like Ken, '''Ryu''' has also been the beneficiary of buffs throughout the lifespan of ''Ultimate'', but his situation is a bit different, as covered in the "Both" section for ''Ultimate'' below.

** In ''Melee'', Fox is considered the game's best character. He has incredible speed, excellent combo capability, and good KO power. His "shine" became even better, as it had invincibility on startup, could be cancelled with a jump, and gimped recoveries all by itself. He also single-handedly invalidated many stages for competitive play, as large and/or moving stages gave Fox the ability to camp with his Blaster. However, Fox is also beloved by ''Melee''[='=]s competitive community, as he is perhaps the epitome of DifficultButAwesome due to the technical skill required to handle his demanding inputs. Fox's extreme falling speed and light weight make him vulnerable to combos himself, meaning matches with Fox will feature long combos and quick deaths [[RocketTagGameplay both ways]]. As a result, Fox is played by ''at least'' one-third of the competitive playerbase. Fox is more of a tier-induced BaseBreakingCharacter than a full-on scrappy -- some players consider the focus on Fox to be detrimental, while others consider it acceptable since Fox's place at the top doesn't mean he's unbeatable. Still, his notoriety is such that it spawned the "[[Memes/SuperSmashBros No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination]]" meme, and contributes to his hatred to a disturbing degree in the other ''Smash'' games.

** In ''Melee'', while considered borderline high-tiers, they're hated for [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wobbling Wobbling]], a technique named after pro ''Smash'' player Wobbles, who used it frequently. Wobbling exploits the IC's "2-in-1" mechanic to jab grabbed opponents in such a way that the opponent is kept stuck in the grab indefinitely until the IC's player decides to release them. Wobbling means any grab from the [=ICs=] can equal death if it's pulled off successfully. Players despise Wobbling so much it was initially banned in many tournaments. The vitriol against the [=ICs=] died down after failing to beat the best players even with Wobbling legal, and many players ended up considering the [=ICs=] to have too hard of a time landing a grab. In addition, Wobbling can be broken easily by killing the computer-controlled partner due to their [[ArtificialStupidity awful AI]], so Wobbling was long dismissed as a serious GameBreaker. A more complicated but powerful combo utilizes a glitch that freezes an opponent forever until they're thrown. After it was discovered, that vitriol against the [=ICs=] started right back up again, and the ban on this move means anyone caught using it in tournaments gets instantly disqualified.

** In ''3DS[=/=]Wii U,'' he blossomed into Scrappydom just days after his release. Cloud is relatively fast, decently durable, and has some of the most powerful and safe attacks in the game. At full Limit charge, his mobility is increased further and his special attacks become Limit Break variants that can KO opponents earlier while retaining their safety. Limit Charge also becomes Finishing Touch, a move that can net Cloud [=KOs=] at moderately low percents. While Cloud's uncharged recovery is his greatest weakness, it isn't nearly as exploitable as Little Mac's thanks to Cloud's vastly superior aerial game. Cloud is one of the hardest characters to counterpick, since his kit overshadowed his recovery issues and renders any counterplay designed against him moot. Couple that with the fact that Cloud is one of the most popular video game heroes ever, and you get one of the most severe cases of ComplacentGamingSyndrome that ''Smash'' has ever seen. And if that wasn't enough, Cloud is also one of the few characters to be considered a tier-induced Scrappy not only in Singles, but in Doubles as well; thanks to "throw enemy into Limit Break specials or Finishing Touch" combos, the meta was stagnated with Character X/Cloud dittos. Towards the end of the game's competitive lifespan, Cloud was widely considered the second best character in the game, only behind Bayonetta.

* '''[[VideoGame/RoboticOperatingBuddy R.O.B.]]''' quickly rose to prominence for ''Ultimate'' after a solid ''Brawl'' and a medicore ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''. R.O.B. got a few buffs that strengthened him significantly, with one of the more useful zoning kits in the game courtesy of his Robo Beam and Gyro, and has set-ups into some of his moves thanks to the latter move's property of being an item. His combo ability from ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' remains not only relatively intact, but arguably improved, with a Neutral Air that can be spammed without any brainpower and a back-air that not only propels him along, but it also lasts a deceptively long time and ''hits in front of him''. And that's without mentioning his Arm Rotor; it was given better hitboxes and better linking angles so that every hit now connects into its final hit, turning Arm Rotor into a dual-sided, multi-hitting kill move that travels across the stage. Oh, and if you're even a centimetre offstage when you use it, the opponent can kiss goodbye to their stock at ludicrously low percentages. Lastly, R.O.B. is heavy and has a great recovery compared to others in his weight class like Simon. Clashing all of this, and the changes to the game's engine, has allowed R.O.B. to break out of his StoneWall status and has turned him into more of a MightyGlacier. He does have his weaknesses, though, such as a susceptibility to combos, juggling and general pressure due to his slow moveset, high weight, and large size, and his up-close game remaining slow. Nevertheless, R.O.B. has amassed quite strong results compared to his other two appearances.
* '''[[VideoGame/StarFox Wolf]]''' returned to ''Ultimate'' with a mixed reaction. While people loved his return to ''Smash'', it was as one of the best characters in the game. Wolf is much heavier than Fox, more neutral-based, and the result of both buffs to his kit and ''Ultimate'''s engine changes have granted him a monstrous combo game. All of his grounded and aerial normals are either meaty, disjointed, fast, or [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs a combination of the three]], with many citing his Back Air as an aerial Smash attack. He also has an easily spammable projectile combined with a quick reflector that can be held and covers his entire body, meaning that he can keep his distance for the whole match by running away and repeatedly using his Blaster, while throwing up a reflector the moment his opponent tries to throw any back. His most glaring weakness -- his short and linear recovery -- is mitigated by the high priority and large size of the hitboxes of his recovery moves, making intercepting him offstage risky. Many players have notably picked up Wolf, leading him to draw parallels to ''Smash 4'' Cloud. Updates would hand Wolf some pretty decent nerfs, leading him to fall off in some people's eyes. But as time has passed in the meta, Wolf's positives have started to blossom through patching, making Wolf a solid top-10 character in the meta.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Chrom]]''' is one of the best swordfighters in the game. His recovery is highly exploitable, but this is mitigated when said recovery move lets him [[TakingYouWithMe take his opponent with him]] for even trying to edgeguard him. He can even combo his aerial attacks into this move to [[SuicideAttack suicide kill]] his opponent at basically any percent; this is nicknamed the [[IncrediblyLamePun "Chrombo"]]. He fell off a few months after release due to the 2.0.0 patch making his suicide kill end his own stock before the opponent's, and the opponent being more able to exploit his recovery. However, even without his {{Death or Glory|Attack}} strategy, he can still do his combo and rack up severe damage; this along with his sheer pressure makes him one of the most oppressive characters in the game, being pretty difficult to shoo him off. Initially, Chrom's viability compared to Roy [[BrokenBase was a topic of debate]], with some players claiming Chrom was better due to his overall safer attacks, his consistency over Roy's raw damage capabilities, and his [[BoringButPractical easier learning curve]].
* '''[[VideoGame/Persona5 Joker]]''' has made a strong argument for the best character in the game. His excellent mobility, freeform combo structure, good edgeguarding, and versatile kit contribute a lot to his top-tier placing. But what makes Joker such a monster is [[MagikarpPower his Persona, Arsene]]. Ordinarily, Joker lacks KO power and has a mediocre recovery. But when Joker summons Arsene, these weaknesses vanish. Arsene drastically improves all of Joker's attacks, gives him Tetrakarn/Makarakarn (easily the best counter/reflector in the game), and the Wings of Rebellion recovery move makes Joker invincible, leaving a very small window to punish him (The two frames in which he starts grabbing the ledge, causing him to lose his invincibility). This gave him the reputation of being "Brawl Meta Knight in Ultimate with Ganondorf's kill power" by his detractors. While the character himself is considered DifficultButAwesome by many due to an arguably high skill ceiling, it comes with learning to optimize Joker both with and without Arsene. He does have his fair share of struggling match-ups and has been balanced in patches to remove his more broken aspects (including a Pokemon Trainer pair-up GameBreaker that filled Joker's Rebellion gauge absurdly fast), so Joker's top-tier status is not banworthy. Many players agree that Joker is an acceptable "best character" to have; while he certainly deserves his top-tier status, Joker's presence doesn't destabilize the game. In the end, all of Joker's solid strengths and good reputation among the playerbase have made the Phantom Thief's claim for ''Ultimate'''s best character hard to challenge, with only Pikachu and Pyra/Mythra coming close.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{ARMS}} Min Min]]''' possesses great edgeguarding capabilities, as she can bully the majority of characters off stage very easily. She also has a great punish game with her up-throw and Dragon Laser. Her up-smash is one of the best anti-airs in the game due to its high kill power, absurd vertical range, speed, and reflector hitbox, despite many saying her weakness is being attacked from above. Min Min's general moves also have good frame data for their long range unlike characters with similar amounts of range. She's become the most hated character in ''Japan'', which is saying something considering the country is well-known for their character diversity and adaptability. Many in Japan believe that Min Min may be a contender for a ''top 10'' character, due to how she gatekeeps a large chunk of characters who aren't agile enough to evade her arms and her Dragon Lasers. Even overseas, some top players believe Min Min resides in top-15, and it's generally agreed that she's in the upper echelons.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{Minecraft}} Steve]]''' amassed an enormous amount of opinions until he became known as a high tier. Steve plays faithful to his home game ''Minecraft'': mine for resources, then [[ItemCrafting manage them by crafting weapons, walls, and traps]]. However, it's this faithfulness which has made him despised. Steve possesses strengths that no other character in the roster has by creating walls, allowing him to easily gimp recoveries and use smash attacks in mid-air. Steve's frame data is also great, and he can make it even faster with [[LethalJokeItem Gold weapons]] so his Up Air now makes Brawl Meta Knight jealous, or even stronger with [[InfinityPlusOneSword Diamond weapons]]. Adding to this is a nasty combo game with a ton of options — combined with his ability to create terrain, this can allow Steve to achieve touches of death from ''a single interaction''. Adding to this is a down air anvil projectile that deals massive damage, a tether grab, a powerful explosive in his [=TNT=], and his Minecart, a fairly fast command grab that's also a projectile. Finally, Steve has a fantastic offstage game and recovery, courtesy of his Minecart and gliding mechanic in his Elytra. In a cruel oxymoron, Steve's highly campy gameplan forces the opponent to approach, which is [[MortonsFork a dangerous decision considering his aforementioned abundance of strengths]]. On top of all that, his barebones animations make it very hard to telegtraph what he is going to do. Steve does have a fair share of weaknesses, such as awful mobility, lackluster disadvantage state, and the fact his overabundance of options requires ingenuity to work at the topmost level; however, considering he can build walls around himself, that's no problem. Many Steve mains have gotten hate due to his campy playstyle, and for a NewbieBoom from ''Minecraft'' fans coming to ''Smash''.
* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power and even hitting behind her (Even though Sakurai said that her weakness was not being good at attacking foes behind her. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the otherwise expected DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only other characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their sheer ubiquity.
* '''[[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]]''' has garnered a similarly distasteful opinion as other high-tier DLC characters. Whereas his fighting game brethren (Ryu, Ken and Terry) are sufficiently sturdy, Kazuya breaks the mold by being a super heavyweight with armor on just about all of his attacks. Kazuya's moveset is the largest in the franchise; not only does he have a move for every situation, a huge portion of his moveset deals double-digit damage ''per move''. Most if not all of his non-aerial moves also possess some degree of KO potential, and many of them render parts of his body invincible. Due to his origins as a fighting game character, Kazuya also possesses the same inherent combo ability his peers have, but beefier thanks to his obscene damage output and wide variety of options. All of this, combined with his endurance, makes Kazuya a terror to face. Kazuya does have his weaknesses in that his moveset and mobility are rather sluggish, he's very vulnerable to combos, he transitions poorly from the ground to the air, and his extensive moveset amounts to DifficultButAwesome being taken to [[ExaggeratedTrope its logical extreme]]. Kazuya is rarely seen in tournaments, but given his aforementioned traits and his endless potential once mastered, not everyone is a fan of fighting The Iron Fist of Darkness.

* '''[[VideoGame/RoboticOperatingBuddy R.O.B.]]''' quickly rose to prominence for ''Ultimate'' after a solid ''Brawl'' and a medicore ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''. R.O.B. got a few buffs that strengthened him significantly, with one of the more useful zoning kits in the game courtesy of his Robo Beam and Gyro, and has set-ups into some of his moves thanks to the latter move's property of being an item. His combo ability from ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' remains not only relatively intact, but arguably improved. And that's without mentioning his Arm Rotor; it was given better hitboxes and better linking angles so that every hit now connects into its final hit, turning Arm Rotor into a devastating finisher. Lastly, R.O.B. is heavy and has a great recovery compared to others in his weight class like Simon. Clashing all of this, and the changes to the game's engine, has allowed R.O.B. to break out of his StoneWall status and has turned him into more of a MightyGlacier. He does have his weaknesses, though, such as a susceptibility to combos, juggling and general pressure due to his slow moveset, high weight, and large size, and his up-close game remaining slow. Nevertheless, R.O.B. has amassed quite strong results compared to his other two appearances.
* '''[[VideoGame/StarFox Wolf]]''' returned to ''Ultimate'' with a mixed reaction. While people loved his return to ''Smash'', it was as one of the best characters in the game. Wolf is much heavier than Fox, more neutral-based, and the result of both buffs to his kit and ''Ultimate'''s engine changes have granted him a monstrous combo game. All of his grounded and aerial normals are either meaty, disjointed, fast, or [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs a combination of the three]]. His most glaring weakness -- his short and linear recovery -- is mitigated by the high priority and large size of the hitboxes of his recovery moves, making intercepting him offstage risky. Many players have notably picked up Wolf, leading him to draw parallels to ''Smash 4'' Cloud. Updates would hand Wolf some pretty decent nerfs, leading him to fall off in some people's eyes. But as time has passed in the meta, Wolf's positives have started to blossom through patching, making Wolf a solid top-10 character in the meta.
* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Chrom]]''' is one of the best swordfighters in the game. His recovery is highly exploitable, but this is mitigated when said recovery move lets him [[TakingYouWithMe take his opponent with him]] for even trying to edgeguard him. He can even combo his aerial attacks into this move to [[SuicideAttack suicide kill]] his opponent at basically any percent; this is nicknamed the [[IncrediblyLamePun "Chrombo"]]. He fell off a few months after release due to the 2.0.0 patch making his suicide kill weaker, and players being more able to exploit his recovery. However, even without his {{Death or Glory|Attack}} strategy, he can still do his combo and rack up severe damage; this along with his sheer pressure makes him one of the most oppressive characters in the game, being pretty difficult to shoo him off. Initially, Chrom's viability compared to Roy [[BrokenBase was a topic of debate]], with some players claiming Chrom was better due to his overall safer attacks, his consistency over Roy's raw damage capabilities, and his [[BoringButPractical easier learning curve]].
* '''[[VideoGame/Persona5 Joker]]''' has made a strong argument for the best character in the game. His excellent mobility, freeform combo structure, good edgeguarding, and versatile kit contribute a lot to his top-tier placing. But what makes Joker such a monster is [[MagikarpPower his Persona, Arsene]]. Ordinarily, Joker lacks KO power and has a mediocre recovery. But when Joker summons Arsene, these weaknesses vanish. Arsene drastically improves all of Joker's attacks, gives him Tetrakarn/Makarakarn (easily the best counter/reflector in the game), and the Wings of Rebellion recovery move makes Joker invincible, leaving a very small window to punish him. While the character himself is DifficultButAwesome due to a high skill ceiling, it comes with learning to optimize Joker both with and without Arsene. He does have his fair share of struggling match-ups and has been balanced in patches to remove his more broken aspects (including a Pokemon Trainer pair-up GameBreaker that filled Joker's Rebellion gauge absurdly fast), so Joker's top-tier status is not banworthy. Many players agree that Joker is an acceptable "best character" to have; while he certainly deserves his top-tier status, Joker's presence doesn't destabilize the game. In the end, all of Joker's solid strengths and good reputation among the playerbase have made the Phantom Thief's claim for ''Ultimate'''s best character hard to challenge, with only Pikachu and Pyra/Mythra coming close.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{ARMS}} Min Min]]''' possesses great edgeguarding capabilities, as she can bully the majority of characters off stage very easily. She also has a great punish game with her up-throw and Dragon Laser. Her up-smash is one of the best anti-airs in the game due to its high kill power, absurd vertical range, speed, and reflector hitbox. Min Min's general moves also have good frame data for their long range unlike characters with similar amounts of range. She's become the most hated character in ''Japan'', which is saying something considering the country is well-known for their character diversity andadaptability. Many in Japan believe that Min Min may be a contender for a ''top 10'' character, due to how she gatekeeps a large chunk of characters who aren't agile enough to evade her arms and her Dragon Lasers. Even overseas, some top players believe Min Min resides in top-15, and it's generally agreed that she's in the upper echelons.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{Minecraft}} Steve]]''' amassed an enormous amount of opinions until he became known as a high tier. Steve plays faithful to his home game ''Minecraft'': mine for resources, then [[ItemCrafting manage them by crafting weapons, walls, and traps]]. However, it's this faithfulness which has made him despised. Steve possesses strengths that no other character in the roster has by creating walls, allowing him to easily gimp recoveries and use smash attacks in mid-air. Steve's frame data is also great, and he can make it even faster with [[LethalJokeItem Gold weapons]], or even stronger with [[InfinityPlusOneSword Diamond weapons]]. Adding to this is a nasty combo game with a ton of options — combined with his ability to create terrain, this can allow Steve to achieve touches of death from ''a single interaction''. Adding to this is a down air anvil projectile that deals massive damage, a tether grab, a powerful explosive in his [=TNT=], and his Minecart, a fairly fast command grab that's also a projectile. Finally, Steve has a fantastic offstage game and recovery, courtesy of his Minecart and gliding mechanic in his Elytra. In a cruel oxymoron, Steve's highly campy gameplan forces the opponent to approach, which is [[MortonsFork a dangerous decision considering his aforementioned abundance of strengths]]. Steve does have a fair share of weaknesses, such as awful mobility, lackluster disadvantage state, and the fact his overabundance of options requires ingenuity to work at the topmost level; however, considering he can build walls around himself, that's no problem. Many Steve mains have gotten hate due to his campy playstyle, and for a NewbieBoom from ''Minecraft'' fans coming to ''Smash''.
* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs the fastest inital dash in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be cancelled to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster [=KO=] power. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her hard to hit. Finally, Foresight significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the otherwise expected DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that's prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. A lot of people consider the Aegis sisters as the only other characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their sheer ubiquity.

* '''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'''. Hooo boy, [[ThisIsGonnaSuck where do we even start...?]]
** Her ''Smash 4'' appearance is easily [[TheScrappy the most hated character in the game]] [[BrokeTheRatingScale (moreso than pre-patch Diddy)]], and one of the most hated characters across all of ''Smash'' period. Since release, she became loathed despite her popularity in her own titles and the enormous response she received upon her supposed DarkHorseVictory on the Ballot; many have exclaimed that, in contrast to fellow DLC character Ryu being a strong yet balanced high-tier contender in competitive play, she and Cloud helped create a "[[BribingYourWayToVictory Pay to Win]]" stigma upon the DLC characters, with Cloud [[TropeMaker starting the trend]], and Bayonetta ''[[TropeCodifier codifying]]'' it. This reared its ugly head when many players [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome picked her up and immediately started winning tournaments]], with many of the players that were arguably held back by a lower-tiered character being a notable point. One of the biggest reasons for her vitriol was her damage output per combo and punish, regarded as the best in the game by miles, since she could tack on massive amounts of damage per punish, even creating conditional "touches of death" for a single, small mistake on the opponent's part, and with a combination of range and priority, Bayonetta could catch mistakes extremely easy and convert rom there. Her recovery is nigh-untouchable unless the opponent had a disjoint, since Witch Twist and After-Burner Kick prevent most edgeguard attempts towards her, and challenging it even allowed Bayonetta to edgeguard or combo back in return. The most agonizing trait of Bayonetta by many is Witch Time, the best "{{counter attack}}" in the game. Being able to immensely slow down opponents for a free charged smash attack, being used as a way to punish recoveries with hitboxes by using this and spiking with her down air, and simply using it to punish anything that might be whiffed to one of her 0-to-deaths is what this move alone can do, and its utility is arguably [[GameBreaker game-breaking]]. She also has the best dodges in the game thanks to the "Bat Within" mechanic, which allows Bayonetta to take zero knockback and only take half-damage on the move that would hit her if she is hit during air-dodge animation frames where she is vulnerable. Combine all these, and you have a character with incredible burst movement, the best punishes in the game, a counter with immense utility, and very few ways to get rid of her, similarly to ''Brawl'' Meta Knight. While her weaknesses in regards to her slow starting and ending lag in her moves are enough to allow punishes, her weaknesses are nothing compared to her benefits, so much so that because of how "Scrappy" she is, she is one of the few, if not only, characters that was banned at certain tournaments, stirring up a massive controversy as to whether or not Bayonetta should even be legal because of how boring and frustrating it is to face her. The outcry against Bayonetta became so large, update 1.1.6 was dedicated to rebalancing (mostly {{nerf}}ing) her and her alone. '''However''', even with the 1.1.6 nerfs, Bayonetta's punish game remained intact, and actually catalyzed on focusing on being creative with her combos, showing how powerful she was even with the nerfs. It reached the point where Bayonetta claimed the #1 spot on the tier list from that point forward (twice in a row), and is considered one of ''the'' two best characters in the game, with no disadvantageous matchups in a similar vein to, again, ''Brawl'' Meta Knight.\\
\\
The Bayonetta hatred reared its ugly head again during the grand finals of EVO 2018, where a Bayonetta [[MirrorMatch ditto]] between [=CaptainZack=] and Lima led to much of the audience walking out just because of how loathed she had become in the ''Smash Bros.'' community (note that [[https://kotaku.com/bayonetta-players-battled-through-the-boos-at-evo-2018s-1828113696 both were booed all through the tournament]], with Zack even saying [[SeriousBusiness he received death threats for using Bayonetta]] — no wonder he ended a match by FlippingTheBird at the audience).
** Then ''Ultimate'' came and... while everyone expected Bayonetta to be nerfed in the transition to ''Ultimate'' (much like how Meta Knight was from ''Brawl'' to ''Smash 4''), especially after the official ''Ultimate'' invitational tournament [[HereWeGoAgain had [=MKLeo=] infamously using her to almost take the entire thing]], several players say [[AlasPoorScrappy the nerfs probably went way too far]]. She expectedly lost her hated deadly ladder combo, but even her basic combos got nerfed by having the startup lag and endlag of her moves increased (her Heel Slide/After-Burner Kick and Witch Twist mainly), thus reducing the efficacy of her combos a lot. Her landing lag also became consistently the longest in the game, making her much more vulnerable than the majority of the roster. Witch Time, whose game-breaking utility stemmed from poor programming, was now properly programmed and nerfed to boot in duration and window of opportunity, going from the most broken counter to in-line with others. The fact she also has a hard time scoring [=KOs=] is only adding insult to injury. All of this adds up to a combo-based character that gets creative and very damaging with combos, but can't get [=KOs=] consistently and sometimes fails to KO even at ludicrously high percentages. Bayonetta did receive some much needed buffs in updates 3.1.0, 8.0.0, and 12.0.0, and many people agree she has improved since the game's initial release, but even after that, [[BrokenBase there's no real consensus on how good Bayonetta is right now]]. Some people think she's closer to the top of mid-tier, with her hugely damaging combos and respectable tools being able to dictate the flow in the neutral game and forcing players to play her game, though her difficulty at killing can make things dicey. A few others state her monstrous mix-up tree doesn't compensate for being able to break out of her combos -even if it just means [[CycleOfHurting they're getting comboed again when she lands]]-, and she's easy to camp out and struggles so hard to kill, thus landing her in low tier (and for some people, a contender for a bottom 10 character). A third camp, however, state she's heavily underrated and draw comparisons to characters that have a hard time at killing but whose combos are heavily damaging (like Sheik), and argue her tools are versatile enough, making her a sleeper high tier. It should be noted, however, that several people agree she's still very annoying to fight against, and in a strange twist, [[TakeThatScrappy are glad the nerfs did knock her down several pegs]] and that her buffs haven't returned her to her "[[SarcasmMode glorious]] ''[[SarcasmMode Smash 4]]'' [[SarcasmMode days]]".

* '''[[Franchise/DragonQuest Hero]]''' is likely ''the'' most contentious both example in ''Super Smash Bros.'' history. He is designed around RPG elements, boasting an MP system and some of the most luck-based mechanics ever put in a ''Smash'' game, if not fighting games period, which allows for absurdly early kills: He has a 1/8th chance of critical hits with smash attacks that can kill or shatter shields with ease. His menu down special that has tons of great options such as stat buffs with the most infamous ones being Whack/Thwack[[note]]random chance of a OneHitKill with odds increasing with percent[[/note]], Zoom [[note]] A guaranteed recovery from anywhere at a minimal 8 MP cost and increased odds if near blast zones[[/note]] Bounce[[note]]Temporarily reflects all projectiles]], Kamikaze [[A SuicideAttack with a big, unblockable blast radius and extreme kill power, just [[EpicFail avoid using it on your last stock]]]], and Magic Blast [[note]] uses all leftover mp, but at max mp creates a [[InstantDeathRadius massive explosion that can easily kill at zero]]. It further doesn't help that menu acts as a language barrier to any foreign players to a region. He also has a very strong special moveset to maximize his MP usage. However, this all comes at the expense of a dismal to terrible normal moveset (particularly a painfully slow back-air, similarly slow dash-attack, and extremely situational up-smash) and he becomes very vulnerable if caught off stage from very low and/or with low mana. The luck and language issues led to [[https://www.destructoid.com/smash-ultimate-s-hero-is-banned-by-a-major-australian-tournament-organizer-563935.phtml some banning]] [[https://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-france-bans-hero-and-future-dlc-characters-from-official-smash-bros-ultimate-tournaments/ him outright]]. On the other hand, Hero's weaknesses and heavy reliance on luck would lead to overall dismal results, with only a few players continuing to use him to middling success or as a secondary.

* '''[[Franchise/DragonQuest The Hero]]''' is one of the most contentious examples in ''Super Smash Bros.'' history. Simply put, he is designed around RPG elements, boasting an MP system and some of the most luck-based mechanics ever put in a ''Smash'' game, if not fighting games period. He has several ways to kill opponents at absurdly early percents: his smash attacks all have a chance of landing a critical hit, which deals double damage and breaks shields absurdly quickly. His down special, Command Selection, has far too many options to be listed here, but his most infamous spells are Snooze, which puts opponents to sleep for a free smash attack; Bounce, a brief but constant reflector; Whack and Thwack, two potential OneHitKO moves with the odds of its success increasing with percentage; Hocus Pocus, [[LuckBasedMission which can turn Hero giant or invincible but can just as easily screw you over]]; Kamikazee, a ludicrously powerful and unblockable self-destruct attack; Zoom, an effortless and unstoppable recovery move that you're more likely to get the nearer you are to the blast zone; and Magic Burst, [[InstantDeathRadius a gigantic explosion that can cover almost the entire stage and is a pretty much guaranteed KO]], but burns all of Hero's remaining MP (though it can be interrupted early). Even discounting his luck-based moves, his other specials have terrifying kill potential when fully charged, especially his side special, which can kill at percents comparable to his critical smash attacks, and his fully charged neutral special, which can punish recoveries hard at astonishingly low percents. All this in mind, he does have glaring weaknesses as well: first off, the frame data on his normal attacks tends to vary from decent to downright terrible, the most notorious being his back air, taking almost a third of a second to hit the opponent. His best special moves use up a lot of MP, meaning they have to be used sparingly if he wants any chance at recovery. Finally, the spells in his Command Selection are chosen at random, you won't regain MP while using it, and you have to make the decision manually, leaving you at constant risk of being interrupted or selecting the wrong option (e.g. using Kamikazee on your last stock, or picking the near-useless Kaclang command leaving yourself open for a free punish). As a result of his highly luck-based gameplay and potential language barrier problems from his Command Selection, in a competitive scene with a long-seated disdain for random and "unfair" elements, there have been serious calls to ban Hero ever since his release, something [[https://www.destructoid.com/smash-ultimate-s-hero-is-banned-by-a-major-australian-tournament-organizer-563935.phtml that ultimately came to pass in South Australia]], and [[https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019/aug/17/heros-thwack-scores-0-percent-ko-during-grand-finals-super-smash-bros-ultimate-tournament/ a lucky 0% KO with Thwack in the grand finale of a tournament in the US]] also intensified the debate overseas. On the other hand, Hero's weaknesses and heavy reliance on luck have thus far led to a rather lackluster tournament showing, leading others to defending his usage in competitive play and decrying the ban as too early and/or unnecessary.
[[/folder]]

* '''[[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]]'' has garnered a similarly distasteful opinion as other high-tier DLC characters. Whereas his fighting game brethren (Ryu, Ken and Terry) are sufficiently sturdy, Kazuya breaks the mold by being a super heavyweight with armor on just about all of his attacks. Kazuya's moveset is the largest in the franchise; not only does he have a move for every situation, a huge portion of his moveset deals double-digit damage ''per move''. Most if not all of his non-aerial moves also possess some degree of KO potential, and many of them render parts of his body invincible. Due to his origins as a fighting game character, Kazuya also possesses the same inherent combo ability his peers have, but beefier thanks to his obscene damage output and wide variety of options. All of this, combined with his endurance, makes Kazuya a terror to face. Kazuya does have his weaknesses in that his moveset and mobility are rather sluggish, he's very vulnerable to combos, he transitions poorly from the ground to the air, and his extensive moveset amounts to DifficultButAwesome being taken to [[ExaggeratedTrope its logical extreme]]. Kazuya is rarely seen in tournaments, but given his aforementioned traits and his endless potential once mastered, not everyone is a fan of fighting The Iron Fist of Darkness.

* '''[[Franchise/StarFox Fox]]''' is another one of the most consistent examples throughout the series. As an aggressive rushdown character with the speed and specials to do it well despite his low weight, he's probably the most iconic GlassCannon, and has regularly been among each game's high-tiers if not top-tiers.
** In ''64'', he was the 4th best character in the game, with many of the elements that would define his future in the series coming into place, with him having a strong combo game that include touch of deaths due to the game's lack of methods to easily escape combos and his Reflector ([[FanNickname better known as "shine"]] due to [[NotTheIntendedUse being rarely used as such]]) due to being a 1-frame attack [[note]]the fastest possible attack speed[[/note]] and usually being used for edgeguarding opponents. One thing this version had that later versions would not is that his blaster could interrupt opponent's movements, making it the best projectile in the game (these properties would be given to Falco's blaster in later games). His one glaring weakness is that his recovery is particularly easy to exploit, due to its lengthy and completely vulnerable startup animation.
** His most notorious iteration, however, came in ''Melee'', where he's considered the game's best character. He has incredible speed with some of the game's best comboing capability and KO power (mainly in his up smash and up aerial), and his notorious 1-frame shine became even better, as it had invincibility on startup, could now be instantly cancelled with a jump, can set up combos and kills, and still could outright gimp recoveries all by itself. He also single-handedly invalidated many stages for competitive play, as on large and/or moving stages, he can out-camp almost every other character out in the game with his ridiculously fast and lagless Blaster. However, Fox is also ''incredibly'' beloved by ''Melee''[='=]s competitive community, as he is perhaps the flashiest character in the game and the epitome of DifficultButAwesome, due to the extreme technical skill required to adequately handle his very fast and heavily demanding inputs. His presence in a match often promotes fast-paced gameplay, as his extreme falling speed and light weight make him heavily vulnerable to combos and gimps himself, meaning matches with him will feature long combos and quick deaths [[RocketTagGameplay both ways]]. As a result, he is played by ''at least'' one-third of the competitive playerbase, with a few of his top players (most notably Hax) even dropping their initial mains that they used to be known for. As such, Fox is something more of a tier-induced BaseBreakingCharacter instead of a full-on scrappy, with some players considering the over-centralizing on Fox to be detrimental to the metagame [[note]]especially on the subject of being so hard to play that hand injuries aren't unheard of among Fox mains, most notoriously with [[https://dotesports.com/general/news/hax-surgery-super-smash-bros-melee-3303 Hax having to get surgery]][[/note]], while others consider it to not be a bad thing, since he is not head-and-shoulders above his fellow top-tiers, in contrast to other examples. He is difficult to use, easy to combo, and not overly oppressive against most mid- and lower-tiered characters (as Sheik and Falco are). Still, his notoriety is such that it spawned the "[[Memes/SuperSmashBros No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination]]" meme, and contributes to his hatred to a disturbing degree in the other games.
** His worst appearance was in ''Brawl'', where he was hammered with nerfs, such as his blaster losing range and the startup of his shine slowed down to 3 frames, while the engine changes did him few favors. However, he would noticeably rise through the rankings, as he still had many of his previous strengths, and with people noting that with three exceptions, he has no especially bad matchups, including him to be among the few characters to have a manageable matchup against the game's infamous GameBreaker Meta Knight. Some suspect that he may have continued to rise in the ''Brawl'' tier rankings had the competitive ''Brawl'' scene not died out in 2014.
** With ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', despite a few more nerfs from ''Brawl'', such as his shine having its startup doubled to 6 frames, he is considered to be an example that has grown and lessened over the course of the game's patches. At launch, Fox was considered to be a solid high tier character with very good mobility and offensive capabilities. After launch, some players discovered Fox had a "jab infinite" that allowed him to loop most characters in a repeated combo of the first two hits of jab that can go on for as long as there was space on the stage, as well as converting it into another combo of choice or a KO confirm. This caused a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome massive amount]] of Fox players to rush into the competitive scene and quickly claim results, with some abusing the "infinite" as their gameplan. Fox ultimately became disliked thanks to how the "infinite" could carry even lower-levelled players to wins over higher-levelled players and how it was used above all of Fox's other options, leading to repetitive play and players suddenly garnering high tourney results. Fortunately, the "infinite" was patched out, leading those reliant to drop Fox or perform noticeably worse because of it. However, the players that stayed with him remained doing well and also helped to show how exciting Fox can be in higher play just like in ''Melee''. That said, some people still dislike Fox thanks to the scars of the past by the "infinite" and from grudges from his dominance in ''Melee''.
** His ''Ultimate'' appearance would be hit with a mixed bag. Fox was nerfed in that his weight is even lighter (lighter than ''Kirby'' and 5th lightest overall) and his Fox Illusion side special no longer goes through shielding opponents, making him much more vulnerable overall. However, he received sizeable buffs from the engine changes, with his speed, power and combo abilities [[JustForPun shining]] in the metagame; speaking of which, his shine is once again a frame 3 move with a lot of hitstun to boot, allowing it to edgeguard much like ''64''. Further buffs with his forward and down aerial multihits made him more consistent, but the verdict was that Fox was the #2 "Space Animal" behind his rival, Wolf; however, he is widely regarded as a strong and solid high tier character that manages to subvert his scrappydom a little bit thanks to his aggressive rushdown style that he has been synonymous for in numerous titles, much to the ire of ''Ultimate's'' zoners.
* '''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Sheik]]''' has been considered a top tier character in a couple of games due to her great combo potential, mobility and edgeguarding.
** Sheik was once the most disliked top tier in ''Melee''. She has many of the fastest attacks in the game, amazing comboing capabilities, the game's most notoriously effective chain throw (which can even zero-death a few characters), one of the best projectiles in her Needles, and a ridiculously fast yet powerful forward air that almost literally slaps opponents away on a semi-spike trajectory, making her fantastic at edgeguarding and gimping nearly everyone's recovery in the game (and thus negating her {{informed|Ability}} poor KO power, one of the things that were supposed to hold her back). That's not even counting her trait that all speedster-type characters shared in ''Smash'': having at least one attack that's their main-yet-powerful-kill move (her forward air and sweetspotted up smash) that can kill just as effectively as stronger characters with more moves. Sheik is also considered easier and less technical than other characters in the game, in a game whose competitive playerbase tends to pride itself on the game's technical difficulty, thus leaving players more sour on her. It was at its worst in early ''Melee'', where Sheik was considered the best character for the first five years (and to such a degree there was once serious contemplation about banning her). As the greater potential of the more liked Fox and Falco were discovered to exceed Sheik, reactions towards her became less vitriolic, and the metagame has advanced towards other characters earning even better results than her, though she's still a bit disliked compared to the rest of the game's top and high tiers.
** Her ''Smash 4'' appearance (specifically patch 1.1.4 and below) had grown into this over time. Firstly came the widely-accepted notion that Sheik was the best character in the game by an astronomic amount, with and without [[StanceSystem custom moves]], thanks to how near-perfect in use her moves were. Sheik's normals had a combination of speed and range that were very hard to punish (and for some characters, outright unpunishable), and the knockback allowed her to effortlessly combo others (mainly with her forward air). Her biggest gripe was her Needles and 50/50[[note]]A situation where two options are guaranteed under the right circumstances, but the player must guess correctly based on reaction[[/note]] with down throw. The former were one of the best projectiles in the game because they flat-out ''invalidated'' entire characters by zoning with them, encouraging an extremely zone/camp heavy playstyle. The latter had the aforementioned 50/50 at high %s; if you didn't airdodge, you risk getting hit by her up air and getting KO'd. If you airdodged, you risked getting hit by Vanish, which would ''also'' KO you, making it a consistent KO option. Her Vanish also made her very hard to edgeguard or KO when she's recovering, and her Bouncing Fish made it easy to KO other characters, while she comboed them with extreme ease ''safely'' as well as giving her another recovery move. Although she still had a steep learning curve, when mastered, this gave her little risk and very high reward to a character that excelled in every aspect, and Sheik was argued to have no truly disadvantageous matchups, like ''Brawl'' Meta Knight. Secondly came from her performances in national tournaments; Sheik was a very common sight at the top of tournaments, with some Grand Finals being Sheik dittos. This caused ComplacentGamingSyndrome to occur in an immense fashion, which only fueled the anger towards seeing Sheik, made even worse because the issue ''accelerated''. Combine all these aspects and it is easy to see why Sheik was a disliked top tier character, similarly to ''Brawl'' Meta Knight and pre-patch Diddy. Despite this, some argued that Sheik's case wasn't ''quite'' as bad as Diddy's was due to her aforementioned steep learning curve, although, as stated above, her own ComplacentGamingSyndrome grew substantially. However, in an ironic twist, her received hatred started to diminish (albeit slightly) because other tier-induced scrappies started appearing alongside her. Finally, her hatred nosedived after the very things that invalidated characters and frustrated players were either removed or significantly adjusted in update 1.1.5, putting some more well-needed risk to her reward, and ultimately causing many competitive players to believe she is no longer the best character in the game and no longer the face of the meta, while becoming a more interesting character to watch.
* The '''[[VideoGame/IceClimber Ice Climbers]]''' have long been notorious for infinite combos abusing their dual nature:
** In ''Melee'', while considered borderline high-tiers, they are one of, if not, [[TheScrappy the game's most hated character]] for one reason: [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wobbling Wobbling]], a technique named after pro ''Smash'' player Wobbles, who used it frequently. Wobbling exploits the IC's "2-in-1" mechanic to jab grabbed opponents in such a way that the opponent is kept stuck in the grab indefinitely until the IC's player decides to release them (which is usually with a smash attack to get a KO). Wobbling itself requires only a simple rhythm to pull off, and means any grab from the [=ICs=] can equal death if it's pulled off successfully. Players despise Wobbling so much it was initially banned in many tournaments. The vitriol against the [=ICs=] and Wobbling died down after their best players usually failed to beat the best players of the top/high tiers even with Wobbling legal, and many players ended up considering the [=ICs=] to have too hard of a time landing a grab. In addition, Wobbling can be broken easily by killing the computer-controlled partner due to their [[ArtificialStupidity awful AI]], and they were noted to do very poorly against Peach, so Wobbling was long dismissed as a serious GameBreaker. For many years, Wobbling was almost never banned at tournaments, though there were still players who vocally disliked it and would sometimes heckle [=ICs=] players who utilize it. However, some tournaments have begun banning Wobbling in early 2019.\\
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A more complicated but powerful combo, to the point where it is currently banned, utilizes a glitch that freezes an opponent forever until they're thrown. After it was discovered, that vitriol against the [=ICs=] started right back up again, and the ban means anyone caught using it in tournaments gets double disqualified, meaning that they are eliminated from the tournament entirely.
** In ''Brawl'', the Ice Climbers were arguably even worse. The simple reason they were so hated was that they could infinitely chain grab the entire cast but themselves. The result was a grab that equaled instant death, and with ''Brawl''’s slower gameplay with less safe offense, significant buffs in the [=ICs=]' projectiles, the partner's AI being significantly better, and the ability to control both Popo and Nana at the same time, it became ''much easier'' to get a grab with both Popo and Nana active. Their infinite chain grabs do require precise timing to pull off that was too much for many players, but it was little comfort when the best players could pull it off to death with ease. Not helping matters is that the grabs resulted in ''incredibly'' boring games for viewers, as they boiled down to watching their opponent camp the [=ICs=] until they net a chain grab, and then watching them kill the opponent effortlessly. They never did come close to exceeding Meta Knight, and they did have a few losing matchups against non-MK characters who could easily evade their grab while separating them with ease (like Peach and Toon Link), but became even more hated than Meta Knight by the end of the game due to being much less flashy and rather degenerate due to their combos despite being less dominant. However, despite their divisive status, [[AlasPoorScrappy some players weren't happy that they were cut]] from ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''.
** ''Ultimate'' brought the Ice Climbers back, but made it so the partner can't move during a grab, putting an end to grab-to-death shenanigans they had become notorious for. However, despite their immense nerfs, there have been some notable competitive techs found, such as some zero-to-death combos using their desyncs and a scary ledge-trump [[note]]the edgehogging replacement since ''Smash 4'' where grabbing the ledge after another person forces them off[[/note]] setup into forward smash. Jury is still out on where the Ice Climbers are at in Ultimate's meta. On one hand, they have a very powerful gimmick in getting one hit kill combos on ALL of the cast that can be setup from several starters (such as a grab, neutral aerial, side b, or down b). Supplementing this is they have good movement and frame data, and some surprisingly powerful attacks (such as their forward aerial spike). On the other hand, they have glaring weakness such as their vulnerability to zoning, a poor neutral game, [[SomeDexterityRequired having a REALLY high execution barrier]], Nana's AI [[ArtificialStupidity being nothing to write home about]], and a solo Ice Climber has a huge hill to climb if they're by themselves. Some people think that the Ice Climbers [[AwesomeButImpractical have a powerful gimmick but are far too much effort than what they're worth]], others absolutely ''hate'' fighting them as the Ice Climbers can potentially end the round with three stray hits.
* Another highly consistent example in the series is the most recognizable face of ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemShadowDragonAndTheBladeOfLight Marth]]'''. A notable case of DifficultButAwesome due to his reliance on precise spacing, he has long been a terror in competitive play when used right.
** With his [[BreakoutCharacter breakout appearance]] in ''Melee'', he is in a somewhat similar boat to Fox; he's a top-tier with many ridiculous advantages and who is overplayed, but is generally highly liked by the game's competitive playerbase. A skilled Marth can easily space opponents out despite the fact that most of his moves are decent in terms of knockback at best, as his attacks cover a large area and threaten damaging combos or lethal edgeguards if landed right. However, intelligent opponents can take advantage of his moves' lack of lingering hitboxes to sneak in, meaning Marth players have to time and space their moves more precisely as they face stronger opponents. Some players, though, are a bit vocal of their dislike of Marth; among the biggest complaints are his broken grab that [[HitboxDissonance reaches a foot in front of where his hand actually touches]] and the sheer strength of his tipped finishers, especially his easy-to-land down aerial spike[[note]]a move that, like a meteor smash, sends opponents downward, but whose knockback cannot be canceled[[/note]], which doubles as the finisher for his famed "Ken combo" and leads to him frequently taking stocks at very early percents over minimal mistakes. In particular, Marth's large grab range and versatile up throw helps him easily set up combos against fast-fallers, and can chain grab Fox and Falco on platform-less stages such as Final Destination, which has drawn the ire of many space animal mains.
** In ''Brawl'', he made the smoothest transition out of any of the previous game's top tiers. While his grab range was reduced to a slightly more reasonable distance and his sword range was also reduced, he still retained most of his previous strengths, such as his powerful spacing with his strong tipper sweetspots. His grab game, despite the range nerf, is still very powerful due to the game's altered grab release mechanics giving him a variety of powerful follow-up options (and even infinites on Ness and Lucas). The end result was him being solidly among the game's top tiers, with only two slightly disadvantageous matchups (against [[GameBreaker Meta Knight]] and King Dedede), thus giving him one of the best matchup spreads in the game.
** ''Smash 4'' would initially give him his worst tier ranking to date, with him getting heavy nerfs that would put him among the game's low tiers, such as his sword's range becoming less stellar due to other characters receiving better hitbox treatment, his aerial game becoming much more manageable due to slower aerials across the board, harder to land tipper hitboxes, and the removal of his infamous "Ken Combo". However, Marth would slowly get further buffs, especially in patch 1.1.4, which caused a surge of new Marth mains to appear, showing off the new tools and adjustments he was given. This would see Marth return to the top tiers, with some, most famously [=MKLeo=], seeing major success in the scene with him.
** ''Ultimate'', while not falling off as severely as his initial ''Smash 4'' iteration, has dropped. Though usually seen as high tier, he has many problems that keep him from seeing widespread usage. Due to his tipper mechanic, Marth has little trouble scoring kills with landing them. However, the problem resides in ''Ultimate''[='=]s faster engine and pace, which give Marth incredible difficulty at landing said tippers. Also, while they remain potent kill moves, they can screw up combos if they land at the wrong time, usually sending the opponent too far away for follow ups except at very low percents. This requires Marth players to thoroughly understand his sourspots to optimize his combos and avoid landing the tippers except as a combo-ender at mid percents. This time, much to the dismay of the Hero-King's fans, his [[MovesetClone Echo Fighter]] '''Lucina''' has largely taken Marth's usual spot amongst the top tiers; in exchange for a harder time scoring kills, Lucina has deceptively more consistent and reliable combos and doesn't have to rely on precise spacing; this, alongside her comparative ease of use have ensured that Marth hasn't seen as much play by comparison.
* As you probably saw several mentions of him above, it shouldn't come to surprise that '''[[Franchise/{{Kirby}} Meta Knight]]''' is probably one of the largest examples in the ''Smash'' series, and perhaps one of the biggest examples in all of gaming.
** In ''Brawl'', he was unarguably the biggest GameBreaker. Period. [[MasterOfAll He excelled at pretty much everything to a degree much greater than any other character]]: he had two main kill moves with his strong down smash and glide attack (the strongest of the three glide attacks in the game, and stronger than most non-glide aerial attacks as well) despite his "not-as-heavy-hitting" nature, had a host of ridiculously effective-yet-safe moves that could be spammed with impunity, all of his sword-based moves barring his glide attack had transcendent priority (meaning that can't clash with/against other attacks), all of his special moves allowed for recovery despite having a helpless state on all of them, and the ability to exploit quirks in the game to make him literally untouchable (such as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Planking planking]] and [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sharking sharking]]). He additionally had no real consequential flaws other than his really light weight (but with how hard it is to get hits on him while being able to recover safely from anything, you're not killing him easily anyway) and a weird aerial grab release animation that left him vulnerable to guaranteed follow-ups when released without throwing him from a grab, which few characters could take advantage of for meager rewards anyway. The result was a character that hard-countered the majority of the cast and won every matchup, and was so good that he was considered in a tier of his own above everyone else. Meta Knight additionally had rather low technical demands and was one of the easiest top/high tier characters to pick up in ''Brawl'', [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome leading to droves of players to main him or use him as a pocket secondary to cover any bad matchups they may have]]. Meta Knight absolutely dominated tournaments (when the monetary winnings were counted up for recorded tournaments one year, players using Meta Knight won ''over half'' of all the money alone), and players became so sick of him that a very serious push was made to get him banned. After 4 years, it finally happened, when the [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/URC#Unity_Ruleset_Committee Unity Ruleset Committee]] decided to ban him in their unity ruleset. The ban didn't stick, though, as too many high-profile players using Meta Knight were opposed to the ban and thus many high-profile tournament organizers ignored it in their major tournaments, which then forced others to not ban Meta Knight in their tournaments so that their players would have a chance at these MK-legal majors. Meta Knight and the failure to ban him is one of most-cited reasons for ''Brawl''[='=]s competitive scene declining post-2012 alongside Ice Climbers having an infinite chaingrab that worked on everyone (see above). Both characters led the way into ''Smash 4's'' competitive scene replacing ''Brawl's''.
** For his ''Smash 4'' appearance, Meta Knight expectedly got some heavy nerfs, causing his massive playerbase from ''Brawl'' to completely abandon him and overstate the effects of the nerfs. At first, many treated Meta Knight as a low-tier character since he now had to play more aggressively and thus has to take more risks (via many of his attacks' hitboxes now lasting for only 1 frame). However, after an update that increased the accuracy on his sword attacks' nerfed hitboxes, many committed to the masked swordsmen found a character with highly potent KO combos, above average speed, and top-tier edgeguarding abilities. His low-tier scrappy very quickly disappeared when people discovered the "ladder combo" from his ''Brawl'' appearance, the [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Rufio Rufio]], was not nerfed, which could KO every character at some of the lowest %s possible when confirmed. As expected, ComplacentGamingSyndrome kicked in and, while the metagame for Meta Knight didn't completely circulate around the mastery of this lone combo, it was still very powerful for some characters to handle. It was not until patch 1.1.5 where this was addressed with his up air getting a change in its hitboxes, making it much more risky to use overall; however, they gave a new toy for Meta Knight mains to play with in a radically improved forward air for increased edgeguarding capabilities. While some players who were over-reliant on his ladder combo said that he went back to mediocrity again, other players fleshed him out past simply using the combo, and have stated that it wasn't that much of an nerf. In the end, Meta Knight remains a high-tier that, while still much more easy to manage compared to his time in ''Brawl'', is a very explosive character that can hand down a lot of trouble.
** ''Ultimate'' once again rained nerfs upon Meta Knight, giving his dash attack, a staple of his Rufio ladder combo, higher power and ending lag, and his up air another angle nerf, thus making the ladder combo much more situational. Combined with buffs to other characters' mobility, Meta Knight's viability has taken a hit despite some notorious buffs to his tools, such as Mach Tornado, Drill Rush, his own mobility, and the higher damage on some of his moves. Overall, while Meta Knight isn't considered to be as much of a high-tier character as in previous games, he retains some tools and his core playstyle remains as dangerous as ever, which has put his overall viability up to debate, although consensus is that he's not a bad character.
* '''[[VideoGame/MetroidZeroMission Zero Suit Samus]]''' is another consistently strong character, who also gets hate for being stronger than the normal Varia Suit Samus, a fact which [[PowerCreepPowerSeep completely throws]] [[GameplayAndStorySegregation Metroid canon out the window]].
** She was among ''Brawl''’s most popular high tiers among the competitive community for being one of the game's flashiest and most offensive characters. ''Metroid'' fans, on the other hand, tended to dislike the Zero Suit in general for being what they see as an oft-needless bit of cheesecake in its home series, and were especially irate when they found out Zero Suit Samus was one of the game's best characters, while regular Samus was a perpetual low-tier character rarely seen in tournaments.
** Needless to say, this carried over into ''Smash 4'', where she became increasingly disliked as her success and prominence grew within the metagame. Widely considered (from patch 1.1.2 and below) to be the second-best character in the game, "[[FanNickname Zamus]]" had numerous tools that made her highly dominant. She has extremely fast or extremely effective moves (both standard and special ones) that allow her to easily dictate the flow of the match as long as she could get in, and set up for combos, of which many were considered to be the most lethal in the roster (until Bayonetta showed up) thanks to how much damage they could do, as well as how early they could claim stocks. This was thanks almost primarily to Flip Jump and Boost Kick. Boost Kick, Zamus' up special, had a large amount of knockback that could KO opponents off the top at low percentages, and even lower with [[ComebackMechanic rage]] and platforms in play. Flip Jump, her down special, not only gives a character that has a tether-recovery ''another'' means of recovery, but also has a command kick that, when spaced right, can meteor smash opponents for a '''very''' early KO. All this resulted in a character that can claim stocks at a moment's notice and could survive and recover with relative ease, leaving many to complain how [[GameBreaker broken]] her moves were. However, Zamus' learning curve is considered to be very high, she has some difficult matchups with some characters, both high and low tier, and knowledge of her moves are needed to fully use her, such as playing around her poor neutral game, having a very unsafe grab, and other various flaws with her moveset. Despite this, and thanks to her breakthrough of success and her powerful move set, Zamus' dislike had spread and grown beyond the dispute of her usage over her Power Suited version, due to [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome MANY players]] such as Nairo, Marss and Choco using her to great success, and earning her the derogatory nickname "[[EmbarrassingNickname Zero Skill Spamus]]". However, this came full-circle when the recent wave of patches from 1.1.3 and on nerfed her hard like fellow top tier Sheik. Aside from a weight nerf, her Boost Kick and its setups would now KO MUCH later and many of her attacks that could set up to the Flip Jump kick-meteor smash were nowhere near as effective, giving her more risks to contrast her massive reward.
** As for ''Ultimate'', ZSS was originally believed to be quite severely nerfed from ''Smash 4'', if not to the cruel extent that Sheik and Bayonetta were. However, after months of metagame development, she's considered to be a top tier character once again with many of her past strengths remaining. While her up air and Boost Kick were nerfed relative to the previous iteration, almost all of her attributes have been buffed in utility and consistency, resulting in a less polarized character that can still overwhelm players and keep overwhelming them, as seen by top player Marss, whom has seen success at major tournaments (most notably Genesis 7) with her. This is taken even further in Japan, where many players consider ZSS to be ''the'' best character in the game (thanks to strong players like Choco, shky, who placed in the top 8 of EVO Japan 2020, and the Umebura [=SP6=] winner Kuro constantly giving her exposure), and even in the West, some tier lists have once again comfortably placed her in the top tier. Game updates have given ZSS a few nerfs that have made her playstyle slightly less effective (most notably, 11.0 nerfs gave her an extra nudge of vulnerability to her kit), but while they have pushed her out of being one of the absolute best characters in the game, she still resides comfortably in top tier. Meanwhile, normal Samus is still seen as the less viable option (albeit still viable), so it's safe to assume that she'll continue to annoy many ''Metroid'' fans on that alone; that said, both characters have their benefits, and there are even some matchups (such as Pichu, Shulk and Inkling) where the armored Samus fares better than her Zero Suited self due to her survivability and projectiles. This eventually ended up being very {{downplayed|trope}}, due to Zero Suit being a fantastic (but not overpowered) character and regular Samus becoming an arguable high tier in her own right.
* '''[[VideoGame/MetalGear Solid Snake]]''' is famous for being the very first third-party addition to ''Smash'', and infamous for being one of, if not the most effective [[LongRangeFighter zoning character]] in the series.
** He was as much of a high-tier scrappy as Meta Knight was in ''Brawl'''s early competitive play. Snake was the game's biggest LightningBruiser, with ridiculously fast and ridiculously powerful attacks that had [[RuleOfThree ridiculously]] [[HitboxDissonance disjointed hitboxes]] (such as his infamous up tilt), on top of some of the best projectiles in the game to zone out the majority of the cast with impunity such as his grenades and his infamous claymore mines; the former have a rather large blast radius for their size, can act as combo-breakers due to coming out on frame 1, and can zone and chip away at opponents with relative ease thanks to the damage they cause, while the latter combined with his C4 for incredibly oppressive stage control that forced the opponent to be incredibly careful while attempting to approach Snake, lest they accidentally [[JustForPun trip]] a landmine and die for it. Snake's dash attack is also the best in the game, as it is a very fast, far-reaching burst option that gives invincibility to Snake's head and arms as he leaps forward, letting him beat most moves outright and be safe on shield on cross-up, which, when combined with the significant mobility boost that DACUS (dash attack cancelled up smash) provided him, allowed him to slide across stages in the blink of an eye and throw out an anti-air projectile as he did so, with the dash attack sometimes even combing into up smash in what was known as the Gatling Combo. In addition, his survivability was among the best in the game due to him being the third-heaviest character in the game, having a relatively fast falling speed for the floaty nature of ''Brawl'', as well as a long-distanced, if vulnerable recovery that could also be extended by blowing himself up with either his grenades or C4. Snake additionally had a huge playerbase, and in the first year of ''Brawl'', it wasn't uncommon to see over half of a tournament's top 8 using Snake. It was so bad, the second tier list even had Snake given his own tier below Meta Knight and above everyone else, as he was considered to be so much better than everyone else that wasn't Meta Knight. He's also a character that many Nintendo purists didn't like being in the game in the first place, which infuriated such people even more when Snake turned out such a dominant character. As the years went on, players learned to exploit some of Snake's potent disadvantages against him (such as the great trouble he had landing safely after being knocked into the air due to his really laggy aerials and poor aerial mobility, and his Cypher recovery move being punishable with a grab-release glitch that made Snake unable to reuse it during recovery without damaging himself using his C4), while the potential of a few other characters were discovered to be even greater and even more aggravating to fight (such as the Ice Climbers and, unsurprisingly, Meta Knight). Snake ended up losing his demi-god status and dropped in the tier list, though by the end of the game's lifespan he was still considered a top tier character, ranking 6th out of 38 characters. And while his hatedom died down significantly, some players still really hated him.
** After skipping out on ''Smash 4'', Snake's return to the series in ''Ultimate'' saw him quickly reclaim his high-tier scrappy status. While his more [[HitboxDissonance outrageous]] tools from ''Brawl'' were nerfed, and his DACUS and down smash claymores completely removed, Snake still retains many of the key attributes that made him so dominant in ''Brawl''. What makes him hated in competitive play is the sheer extremities of his entire kit, causing many players to call him one of the best characters in the game. Apart from his tools from the previous game, Snake's Nikita Missile is infamous as one of the best projectiles in the game, having been buffed immensely from ''Brawl'' with a much faster, much stronger, and more controllable missile that can invalidate characters that cannot challenge or weave around it. His up tilt, while not as far-reaching as it was in ''Brawl'', is still just as dangerous thanks to how hard it hits, how active the move is, and how effectively it can stuff any jumps coming in or getting out with relative ease. The changes to the engine also greatly benefit Snake, as in addition to his painfully sluggish mobility from ''Brawl'' being vastly improved, he is now capable of using his multi-hit neutral and down aerials out of a short hop to quickly rack up damage. And finally, to top it off, Snake's Grenades can interrupt combos (at the expense of getting hit by them as well) and still come out on frame 1, do decent damage even when staled, and have a massive blast radius, granting him incredibly powerful stage control when combined with his C4. Notably, unlike other top-tier characters, Snake hasn't received any meaningful nerfs in game updates (other than a minor nerf to up smash's ending lag at the start of the game's lifespan), which combined with some of his fellow top tier matchups like Palutena, Joker, Zero Suit Samus and Peach becoming worse (the latter of which is a matchup Snake players agree he does well against), has pushed him farther an farther in some people's eyes. In the end, all of these traits in a singular package has once again created a character that players casual and competitive alike loathe to fight.
* '''[[Franchise/DonkeyKong Diddy Kong]]''' has been a long-time offender of this trope, with his infuriating Banana Peels, fast moves, and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking annoying chimpanzee screeches]] getting on many a player's nerves since ''Brawl''.
** In ''Brawl'', while the hatred towards him never approached the levels of characters such as the above-mentioned Meta Knight and Ice Climbers as well as Olimar (who is described below), players like ADHD discovered and showcased just how strong his Banana Peels were, giving him an incredibly strong defensive gameplan as well as ridiculous stage control that completely changed how players had to play the game. By the end of ''Brawl'', he was considered the fourth-best character, and while he didn't get as much a hatedom as the three characters ranked higher than him, many players wouldn't root for him when he was fighting anyone else but them.
** In version 1.0.4 ''Smash for Wii U'' (aka the initial version of it) has been the second most notorious example of this in the game (behind Bayonetta). When all the other perceived top tiers of the early ''3DS'' days were nerfed, in conjunction with the significant nerfing of the new vectoring mechanic, Diddy managed to emerge as one of the best fighters in the game while also being one of the least technical, giving him a rather low learning curve. He had a highly effective combo throw that could easily lead to a chain of aerials at low damages, while leading to unavoidable KO follow-ups at high damages (with down throw to up air being the most infamous, and becoming known as the "[[WesternAnimation/DonkeyKongCountry Hoo-Hah]]"). This is also on top of his moveset containing fast and hard-hitting moves with good reach (especially his forward and up smash), some of the best grabs in the game (in addition to a projectile in his banana peel that can setup grabs easily), and his up aerial being an incredibly fast move that could hit far below Diddy to all the way above him while being strong enough to easily KO at lowish damages without needing the aforementioned throw combo setup. While it was debatable if Diddy was actually the best character in that version, ComplacentGamingSyndrome set in hard as competitive and wannabe-competitive players swarmed to Diddy in droves, and tournaments ended up featuring many Diddy dittos, among players that barely utilized much outside his aforementioned "Hoo-Hah". Diddy would become [[TheScrappy widely despised by both the competitive and casual community]] — aside from his utter dominance of the metagame, his [[BoringButPractical boring, repetitive playstyle]], low learning curve, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and goofy design and monkey noises]] made him an utterly despised character by players of all sorts. Fortunately for everyone, update 1.0.6 handed him a handful of well-deserved nerfs, and then patch 1.0.8 nerfed him even further for good measure, thus causing the bandwagoners to mostly abandon him; you'd better believe [[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32nsee/hoo_hah_has_been_nerfed/ how many people were happy for that]]. It should be noted that Diddy did not drop to the low tiers after all that, with his remaining dedicated players showing there was much more to Diddy than his "Hoo-Hah". Diddy ended up ranked in 3rd place on [=SmashBoards'=] fourth tier list and is generally regarded as a more fun and engaging character to play and watch than other top-tiers such as Bayonetta and Cloud, although he occasionally goes through bouts of HypeBacklash when his best player [=ZeRo=] has a winning streak — a grim reminder to some of Diddy's "dark days". As one Reddit commenter put it:
--->[[https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2y6ms6/most_dangerous_smash_4_character/ There is a lot of hate given to people who play top tear [sic] characters, but when it's a little monkey squealing and gimping you with bananas your blood will begin to crystallize due to salt in your veins.]]
** In ''Ultimate'', Diddy was initially on the opposite side of the spectrum, with many of his strong tools from ''Smash 4'' being nerfed, among the most notable being his up special, which severely hampered his vertical recovery distance and made him pathetically easy to gimp. As such, many early tier lists had Diddy Kong as a mid or even low-tier character. However, patch 3.1.0 would grant him a plethora of helpful buffs, his up special being one of the recipients of such buffs, and dedicated professionals like Dakpo, Twinkle, Aaron, and Firehao have managed to score respectable results from mid-2019 onwards, pushing him back into the high-tiers, due to his fantastic dash attack, down tilt, great combo game, one of the best 2-framing moves in forward tilt, z-drop banana toss into down air which is transcendent (meaning the banana won't clank with any hitbox) and it can kill at 40% offstage, giving him a great edgeguarding game and a back air that's incredibly safe on shield, to where it's more safe then Joker's or Palutena's. The most dedicated Diddy players will still be a competitive threat, especially as Tweek has now committed into playing the character, with a lot of Diddy mains saying that he beats the majority of the top and high tiers (outside of some zoners, Mario, Wolf and Pikachu), making him a good anti-meta pick.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{Pikmin}} Olimar]]''' is considered a high-tier scrappy in his appearances across the series due to his Pikmin mechanic encouraging a defensive playstyle that ranges from annoying to incredibly painful to break through depending on the game.
** In ''Brawl'', Olimar was an agonizingly difficult character to approach with his Pikmin, could outcamp every character in the game bar Falco, and had a broken grab that could shield grab nearly everything along with very powerful-yet-quick moves to punish opponents harshly and force them back out when they finally got in. While he had a poor aerial game with a godawful recovery, he could use his Pikmin Order for instant SuperArmor to snuff attempts to exploit them. By the end of ''Brawl''’s lifespan, Olimar was considered the third-best character in the game under Meta Knight and the Ice Climbers, and for some players he was even more dreaded to fight than them.
** In ''Smash 4'', Olimar saw prominent nerfs that resulted in his tier placement dropping quite a bit. The most notable of these nerfs was to the amount of Pikmin that he could pull out, with it being reduced to three Pikmin compared to six in ''Brawl''. Additionally, all types of Pikmin had their HP reduced across the board with the exception of White Pikmin, making them easier to KO, and drastically weakening Olimar’s camping ability, the weakening of his Pikmin Order super armor also compounding this. Furthermore, most of his moves saw nerfs to their frame data as well, the most notable one being his up smash, which gained over a third of a second (20+ frames) of endlag, as well as reduced hitbox durations, meaning that the moves have a significantly shorter window where they can deal damage. However, Olimar did receive quite a few buffs, the most significant of which was his recovery, with Winged Pikmin functioning as a vastly superior recovery compared to Pikmin Chain and significantly improving his survivability offstage. Though Olimar was far less dominant in ''Smash 4'' compared to ''Brawl'', he was still considered a high-tier character by the end of the game’s competitive lifespan and had multiple professionals representing him in tournaments, the most notable of which were Shuton, Dabuz, and Myran.
** He once again rose to greatness and infamy in the early ''Ultimate'' competitive scene after falling off a bit in ''Smash 4'', regaining his insane pressure and neutral abilities on-stage he infamously possessed in ''Brawl''. In fact, his ''Ultimate'' incarnation has often been cited as his best yet, in no part thanks to his very admirable juggling game, ability to spam Pikmin Order ''even faster'' and abuse its super armor more often, and, of course, his incredible zoning abilities with his much quicker and much deadlier Pikmin smash attacks. In particular, his up smash was buffed ''tremendously'' into one of his best neutral options, with Pikmin flipping for much wider coverage, giving it the ability to combo into itself and other moves at lower percents and secure stocks easily at higher percents, all while being extremely safe on shield. Dabuz, Myran, and Shuton secured high-profile placings at Frostbite and Genesis using him, with many detractors often bemoaning the character and perceiving his play style as very campy, obnoxious, and grating to watch. Olimar, however, was nerfed significantly over the course of patches, increasing his hurtboxes, weakening his pressure and safety from his Smashes bar Down Smash, and weakening his recovery on repeated usage, with only range and lasting hitbox buffs to Purple Pikmin on Forward Smash to compensate. While this removed Olimar from the "best character" talks, the captain is still a very frightening high-tier character that lurks in the meta and draws the ire out of players and spectators alike.
* '''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Cloud Strife]]''', in a similar fashion to Snake, has always been problematic since his debut in ''Smash 4'' thanks to his very low learning curve and LightningBruiser design, which allows him to be played effectively at all levels of skill.
** In ''3DS[=/=]Wii U,'' he got hit with this just days after his release, and soon blossomed to "Scrappyhood" in top-level play from thereon. As mentioned above, he's a LightningBruiser - fast and mobile, decently durable, and has some of the most powerful and safest attacks in the game (most of his aerials could be auto-cancelled to near-spammable levels), which was complemented with his extremely versatile Limit Break mechanic. His down special, Limit Charge, could be cancelled at ANY time into almost everything in Cloud's arsenal, and at full Limit charge, his mobility is increased further and his special attacks become Limit Break variants that can KO opponents earlier than many heavyweights while retaining safety, most infamously Limit Cross Slash. Limit Charge also becomes Finishing Touch, a move that can net Cloud [=KOs=] at moderately low percents if it connects. While Cloud's uncharged recovery is his greatest weakness, it isn't nearly as exploitable as Little Mac's thanks to his vastly superior aerial game, and soon was overshadowed by his numerous benefits thanks to his great aerial mobility and discovered techs to help him get back onstage or to the ledge. Cloud is highly regarded as one of the hardest characters to counterpick, since his overtuned kit practically overshadowed his recovery issues and renders any counterplay designed against him as moot, leading many to hate him simply because he was the most likely character to be their character's "worst matchup." Couple that with the fact that Cloud is one of the most popular and hype-worthy newcomers in the series, and you get one of the most severe cases of ComplacentGamingSyndrome the game has seen. He also had a reputation for being played by {{scrub}}s, not only because of his sheer popularity, but also because Cloud is universally regarded as the easiest top tier to play in the game while remaining one of the most rewarding characters in the game. And if that wasn't enough, Cloud is also one of the few characters to be considered a tier-induced Scrappy not only in Singles, but in Doubles as well; he is the best character in Doubles by a landslide, thanks to "throw enemy into Limit Break specials or Finishing Touch" combos, which sealed stocks fast and his aforementioned assets in his design, which ultimately stagnated the meta with (insert character here)/Cloud dittos, to the point where people's already-high viewpoints of ''Smash 4'' Doubles was tarnished. Eventually, update 1.1.5 tried to fix the problems he caused, severely nerfing his aerial Finishing Touch as well as a lot of his overtuned normals, such as his up aerial; ''however'', many people were quick to discover that the patch ironically ''helped'' him as well, since his worst match-ups with Sheik and Zero Suit Samus were eased up with their significant nerfs, and the nerfs to his moveset had minimal effect on his viability, thus remaining as the best character in Doubles. To the end of the game's competitive lifespan, Cloud is widely considered the second best character in the game, behind the even bigger GameBreaker [[TheScrappy Bayonetta]], and he is often lumped together with her as the metagame-defining "DLC duo" of characters whose matchups at least partly decide the viability of the rest of the tier list.
** In ''Ultimate'', much like previous {{Game Breaker}}s ''Brawl'' Meta Knight and ''Smash 4'' Bayonetta, Cloud ended up getting nerfs to some of the things that made him reviled in the first place. The biggest change is that Limit can only be held for 15 seconds, which means full Limit Cloud cannot stay a full on LightningBruiser for as long as he wants. However, unlike Bayonetta, whose immense nerfs have led to a poorly regarded status of her, Cloud still lurks in higher end of the tier list due to his power and low learning curve making him more of a SkillGateCharacter. The engine changes also greatly benefitted Cloud, as while his air game was worsened due to the reduced range and duration of his neutral aerial and up aerial respectively, the universal reduction of landing lag allowing a new neutral tool in forward aerial and his offense being more brutal mitigated this. Just like before, Cloud is heavily used during in online play thanks to his powerful punish game and strong neutral. However, as time marched on in offline play, Cloud's usage dwindled due to the fact he got outclassed by most ''Fire Emblem'' characters, namely Lucina because of her well-rounded kit and superior defensive counterplay for certain matchups, and Roy/Chrom due to their overturned offensive power compared to Cloud. However, the update 7.0.0 granted Cloud a very important buff to Limit as his down special now charges the Limit gauge faster than it did in ''Smash 4'' (before the update, charging Limit took longer than it did in ''Smash 4''); as well, he also received buffs to his up smash and dash attacks which make them more viable kill options. This has given players cause for concern, and until then, like Snake, Cloud remains a blood-boiling character to fight against, be it casually or competitively.

* '''[[VideoGame/FZero Captain Falcon]]'''[='=]s flashy, awe-inspiring, and electrifying playstyle has generally earned him a large amount of success ever since the original game, with only a notably unfortunate stint as a bottom-tier character in ''Brawl''. As the fastest runner in ''64'', Falcon can easily get in and abuse his excellent aerials, most notoriously his up air, which can lead into his notorious "Stairway to Heaven", the original ladder combo [[note]]A combo specializing in killing off the top, usually in a string of up airs ending with a (usually up) special to kill very early off the top[[/note]] of ''Smash'', not helped by the fact that the only legal stage (Dream Land) lends itself well to it. His combo game is deadly enough that he's Pikachu's worst matchup, as he can regularly kill it before it even gets the chance to recover. However, much like Fox, his recovery is also quite exploitable, and he particularly struggles to approach Kirby and his up tilt. Even so, he lurks beneath Pikachu and Kirby in the original game's tier list, with only Kirby giving him any real trouble out of any character.

* '''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker Toon Link]]''', while generally considered one of ''Brawl''[='=]s most boring high tiers for his players tending to be very campy, wasn't hated to a significant degree by the competitive community. However, many [[BrokenBase people who dislike]] ''The Wind Waker'' and its Link were shocked to find out that Toon Link was actually high-tier while regular Link was considered one of the worst characters in ''Brawl'', causing some of them to [[CasualCompetitiveConflict refuse to believe this to be true]] and others to suddenly become part of the [[MemeticMutation "Tiers are for queers"]] movement. Many of those people, of course, get very angry when someone actually beats them using Toon Link, especially when they were using regular Link. In short: Toon Link was TheScrappy for those people anyway, but the fact that he's a high-tier character (and that Adult Link is not) made it even worse. The reason for the discrepancy is that Toon Link is a lot more agile and less sluggish than normal Link, especially in terms of his recovery; one of Link's weakest traits throughout the ''Smash'' series (especially in ''64'').

* '''[[VideoGame/SuperMarioGalaxy Rosalina and Luma]]''' had always been considered one of the best characters in the game and very difficult to deal with for much of the cast due to their PuppetFighter mechanic, while also being widely considered to be one of the most "boring" characters to watch, thanks to Luma's attacks and abilities. The best and most prolific Rosalina player, Dabuz, was perhaps the most disliked professional ''Smash 4'' player among spectators due to his character and highly defensive playstyle. This dislike for the character escalated when players started to realize how powerful Luma really was in the hands of a skilled player, having attacks with such immense knockback that it can KO other characters at very low percentages, leading many to consider Luma the problem behind Rosalina. Like Sheik, their case was never as bad as pre-patch Diddy, mainly due to her extremely high learning curve leading to few actual Rosalina players. Also, Rosalina and Luma actually have little national success, as her worst matchups are not only with characters that are highly prominent in competitive play, but to characters with mobility quick enough to break their zone and thus erase Luma out of the equation to allow them overwhelm Rosalina. Despite these points and the frequent nerfs to Luma's HP, Rosalina and Luma still remain disliked for their highly defensive play and potentially potent offense thanks to Luma. She's especially infamous among Ness and Lucas players, as she can effortlessly invalidate their recovery and send them to his doom.
* Initially, '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Luigi]]''' was one of the game's most well-liked top/high tiers, when he unexpectedly emerged as a really potent threat after the first balance patch/initial version of ''Smash U''. It especially helped that his most high-profiled players tended to be flashy, and it turned out Luigi was a potential counter to the much-despised Diddy Kong when multiple high-profile cases of a Luigi defeating a noteworthy Diddy Kong player in a tournament happened. However, after Diddy's nerf, Luigi mostly took up the mantle of "high tier character with easy and extremely effective throw combos", leading to many of the fair-weather players that abandoned Diddy post-nerf moving on to him. With the influx of Luigi players abusing his throw combos that are even more effective than pre-patch Diddy's, and a useful enough projectile in terms of how it synergizes with his moveset, Luigi picked up the ire of players and became as complained about as the aforementioned top tiers. Unlike pre-patch Diddy, though, the rest of Luigi's moveset outside his throw combos isn't as great due to nerfs from his ''Melee'' incarnation, and he has poor mobility that can be easily exploited, since in the history of other ''Smash'' games he has his awkwardly low traction to the ground and floaty jump physics (and since wavedashing has been removed since ''Brawl'', much of Luigi's movement is very difficult to manage nowadays). This, alongside some solidly losing matchups, led to the best Luigi players under-performing at national tournaments despite being a dominant force at local and regional tournaments. This point was further emphasized in later game updates, which not only increased the ending lag on his Fireballs, but also reworked his down throw to not be as effective on KO confirms (instead trading it for high-damage combos at low damage), causing many that quickly picked up Luigi to drop him. Only the most loyal of players continued playing him, such as [=Mr. ConCon=] and Elegant, the former of who would keep Luigi on the map as a perennial threat until the latter eventually brought Luigi back to the initial competitive view he had in the beginning of ''Smash 4''[='=]s metagame.
* '''Captain Falcon''' made a huge comeback from being bottom-tier character in ''Brawl''. Perhaps the most notable improvements he received in this game were the return of his ludicrous up aerial from ''64'' and the significant weakening of the [[ScrappyMechanic much-maligned hitstun cancelling mechanic]] that destroyed his fundamental concept as a character. However, Captain Falcon began to show signs of infamy due to people decrying how much of a SkillGateCharacter he is at lower levels of play, with his fast, powerful moves overwhelming his opponents most of the time. However, at the highest levels of play, Falcon struggles much more against the DifficultButAwesome characters that populate ''Smash 4''[='=]s topmost tier, and while he can certainly get the job done against them, he rests in the lower section of high tier as a result of him having a difficult time against said characters. As a result, he's more of a tier-induced base-breaking character rather than an outright scrappy, thanks to being beloved by a majority of the community. In tournament play, the best Captain Falcon player in the world is universally agreed to be Fatality, who scored many great wins and top-cut finishes with the character, his greatest achievement being a silver medal at 2GGC: Civil War, commonly regarded as the most difficult tourney in all of ''Smash 4''[='=]s competitive history.
* In custom moves-legal tournaments, '''[[VideoGame/AnimalCrossing Villager]]''' becomes one of the most hated characters in the game. To whit, in a custom environment, Villager gets access to Timber Counter, which in its sapling stage trips opponents who move into its vicinity while lasting a long time and having no way for the opponent to get rid of it (thus giving Villager an extremely powerful stage controller); and Extreme Balloon Trip, which makes Villager's recovery more difficult to edgeguard (as the Balloons explode when contacted with, essentially forming a wall above Villager during recovery). The biggest sticking point though, as these two moves can be combined together to give Villager the ability to safely plank, one of the most detested techniques in prior games that was otherwise eliminated in ''Smash 4''. By planting Timber Counter's sapling near the ledge, the opponent won't be able to stand near the ledge to punish Villager right then and there, and then the exploding balloons protect Villager from being hit above despite his lack of ledge invincibility. While Villager remains safe on the ledge, he can additionally chip away at the opponent with his slingshot and Lloid Rockets, pocketing any projectiles the opponent throws out at him, and the opponent is disrupted farther by the exploding balloons being able to glitch through the stage and hit them without even being above Villager. The result is Villager being able to time out opponents with appalling ease once he has the damage lead in a very aggravating manner, that's additionally extremely boring for spectators. While shockingly effective against players unfamiliar with it, this tactic isn't as good as advertised, with it having many counters and having general work-arounds by players who are familiar with it. As such, no Villager ever won a major custom-legal tournament nor even got a money placing. This fact, however, does little to placate players who despise custom Villager, and is one of the biggest reasons that many players turned against legalizing custom moves in tournaments (it's also not helped that none of the patches addressed it after its discovery, adding more fuel to the anti-customs claim that custom moves aren't balanced for).

This game's meta will take a long time to form, due to the number of characters that are playable in the game, and Ultimate's roster only recently finalizing at the time of this writing. But there are a few characters that people have been keeping their eye on, for better and for worse.
* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Peach]]''' has been noted by many pros as having a very strong game out of the gate, and has only gone higher ever since. While she was always placed relatively well on previous games' tier lists, her buffs have seen the princess get called a "monster" in ''Ultimate''. Her aerial attacks combined with her ability to float make her reign supreme in the air, along with amazing edgeguarding techniques, buffs to her turnip throws and counters with Toad that make it extremely daunting to recover back against her. Her combo ability is some of the game's best, and she's got several kill moves that she can exploit. Peach getting upsets in early ''Ultimate'' tournaments over the topmost players only further increased her reputation. However, unlike much of the prior high-tier scrappy contenders, Peach also doubles as a [[DifficultButAwesome very high-skill based]] character by the community, since the amount of precise inputs and timings needed to push Peach to her "monster" limits makes her one of the most technical characters to play as, made even more difficult with the increased speed of ''Ultimate's'' engine. Nevertheless, whether regarded as a high-skill character or a top-tier scrappy, Peach is feared and renowned as one of the game's best, if not the best, even with the decreases to the knockback on her forward air and back throw, easily two of her best K.O. moves prior to the 3.1.0 patch.
** By virtue of [[MovesetClone largely playing functionally identically to her]], all of what has been said for Peach applies to '''[[VideoGame/SuperMarioLand Daisy]]''' as well (most tier lists have her right next to Peach). That being said though, Peach is much more infamous for this trope than her; before update 3.0.0, players discovered that Daisy's turnips deal more base knockback with less knockback scaling, hampering both her low-percent combo game and high-percent kill power in comparison to Peach, as well as having a slightly wider hitbox with more expressive animations that make her slightly more vulnerable. However, the difference between Peach and Daisy's turnips was removed in the aforementioned update 3.0.0, putting Daisy on much more equal ground with Peach.
* After a very lackluster showing in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', '''VideoGame/{{Wario}}''' would rise to this position in ''Ultimate''. For starters, his dash attack, now being his signature Shoulder Bash, is an incredibly fast and powerful kill move that can be confirmed out of a down tilt, and his combo game was buffed into something truly frightening, having great combo starters in up tilt and neutral aerial while also being able to put on massive amounts of damage through one string of moves, especially with his neutral aerial being buffed to remove the frame gap from the previous game along with ground-to-air transitioning being standardized to three frames for all characters. What separates Wario from most of the others on this list, though, is his ''ludicrous'' comeback factor. Wario's Waft now has a multitude of kill confirms while still retaining its massive power, being able to kill as early as ''50%'' off either his up tilt or landing up aerial. As a result, Wario can quickly and unexpectedly bring stock leads down to an even game with a single combo, to the point where many people say that any match against Wario has the opponent at an immediate deficit. His half-charged Waft is no slouch either, as it can combo off of the same moves and, if at a stock advantage, is able to grant Wario a large lead if used correctly. Combined with other factors such as his superb air mobility, a long-distanced and unpredictable recovery, and even a command grab that heals, Wario is a force to be reckoned with in the competitive scene, with players such as Glutonny, Tweek, Kameme, and Abadango managing to secure incredible results with the character, with Glutonny in particular managing to get 3rd at EVO 2019 going solo Wario. However, update 11.0.0 finally nerfed Wario by making his up tilt last shorter and making his half-charged and fully charged Waft slower; he still retains his absurd combo game and he can still combo his half-charged Waft for early lead-gaining, but the notable slowdown of his fully charged Waft has resulted in a noticeable weakening of his comeback factor, which has knocked him down a few pegs. Although players like Tweek have dropped the character, others such as Glutonny have optimized Wario to not be as reliant on a fully charged Waft due to how frame tight the combos into it are, and to only use it in the most dire of circumstances, so despite no longer being considered one of the absolute best characters in the game, things aren't looking as grim for him as initially envisioned, reinforced by Glutonny's continued dominance of Europe.
* After his first good but only decent appearance in ''Brawl'', as well as a lackluster appearance in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'', '''[[VideoGame/RoboticOperatingBuddy R.O.B.]]''' has quickly risen to prominence for ''Ultimate''. One of the most iconic [[LongRangeFighter zoning]] characters since ''Brawl'', this game gave R.O.B. a few noteworthy buffs that strengthened him significantly, further cementing him as the JackOfAllStats between his zoning brethren. R.O.B. possesses one of the more useful zoning kits in the game courtesy of his Robo Beam and Gyro, and has set-ups into some of his moves thanks to the latter move's property of being an item. His up-close game, while still a bit slow, was given much more utility, with quality of life changes such as higher power, better range, or greater advantage on hit and on shield. His combo ability from ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' remains not only relatively intact, but arguably improved. And that's without mentioning his Arm Rotor; previously one of his more useless moves due to its difficulty in connecting all hits, it was given better hitboxes and better linking angles so that every hit now connects into its final hit, turning Arm Rotor into a devastating finisher that can KO early, shield-poke, and reflect projectiles. Lastly, R.O.B. is heavy and has a great recovery compared to others in his weight class like Simon. Clashing all of this, and the changes to the game's engine, has allowed R.O.B. to break out of his StoneWall status and has turned him into more of a MightyGlacier. He does have his weaknesses, though, such as a susceptibility to combos, juggling and general pressure due to his slow moveset, high weight, and large size, and his up-close game remaining slow. Nevertheless, R.O.B. has amassed quite strong results compared to his other two appearances (most notably Zackray winning The Big House 9 with him), and combined with the various nerfs to some of his hardest matchups in 11.0, R.O.B. is in an even more commanding spot in the meta; in fact, post-quarantine, R.O.B. has been by far the most successful character in tournament play in the West, with most national tournaments having more than 5 R.O.B.'s get top 64/top 32, making the character extremely prevalent to even greater extents then before, causing the hate for him to gradually grow larger.
* '''[[VideoGame/StarFox Wolf]]''' returned to ''Ultimate'' with a somewhat mixed reaction. While the near-majority loved his inclusion back to ''Smash'', many were quick to point out that he was one of the best characters in the game. Compared to his rival, Wolf is much heavier, more neutral-based, and the result of both buffs to his kit and ''Ultimate'''s engine changes (also helped by the complete removal of chain grabbing, one of his biggest weaknesses in ''Brawl'') have granted him a monstrous combo game. All of his grounded and aerial normals are either meaty, disjointed, fast, or [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs a combination of the three]], resulting in a character that can rip opponents to shreds with either high-damage combos or early [=KOs=] in the match. His down smash is widely seen as one of —if not— the best in the game, being decently quick (although slow among down smashes) and having a deceptive hitbox that can hit characters hanging from an edge with ease and KO any character below 100%, even {{Mighty Glacier}}s like Bowser. Blaster has little startup and decent firing speed, shoots large projectiles, has a hitbox on [[BayonetYa the bayonet of the gun]] when he thrusts it forward, and induces longer hitstun than Falco's blaster, making it such a pain to players that they joke about Wolf having a "one-button neutral". His most glaring weakness, his short and linear recovery, is mitigated by the high priority and large size of the hitboxes of his recovery moves, making intercepting him offstage risky. Many players have notably picked up Wolf as a main, secondary, or pocket, leading him to draw parallels, albeit weaker, to ''Smash 4'' Cloud. Some game updates would hand Wolf some pretty decent nerfs, notably to his down smash and Blaster, leading him to fall off in some people's eyes, but as time has passed in the meta, Wolf's positives have started to blossom even more as other top tier characters have been nerfed in game updates and as Wolf himself has grown more lethal in the hands of pro players, leading him to be a near-unanimous top 10 character and a popular one at that, much to the dismay of everyone who resents him.
* Multiple swordfighters have been disliked due to the range, power, and speed their attacks have, with the ''Fire Emblem'' Echo Fighter duo gaining as much infamy as many other swordfighters have in other games due to their design aspects. While Lucina's case is described in the "Both" section due to her lackluster debut in ''Smash 4'', since launch, Roy's Echo Fighter, '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Chrom]]''', is considered to be one of the best swordfighters in the game (and was at some point even considered the best). His recovery is highly exploitable, but this is mitigated when said recovery move lets him [[TakingYouWithMe take his opponent with him]] for even trying to edgeguard him. He can even combo his aerial attacks into this move to [[SuicideAttack suicide kill]] his opponent at basically any percent; this combo is nicknamed the [[IncrediblyLamePun "Chrombo"]]. He fell off a few months after release due to the 2.0.0 patch making his suicide kill weaker, and players being more able to exploit his recovery. However, even without his {{Death or Glory|Attack}} strategy, he can still do his combo and rack up severe damage; this along with his sheer pressure makes him one of the most oppressive characters in the game, being pretty difficult to shoo him off. Initially, Chrom's viability compared to Roy [[BrokenBase was a topic of debate]], with some players claiming Chrom was better due to his overall safer attacks, his consistency over Roy's raw damage capabilities, and his [[BoringButPractical easier learning curve]]; over time, however, Roy would receive a more positive reception. Even then, Chrom firmly remains in the high tier threat list and still garners hate due to his AttackAttackAttack tendencies like Lucina, which still makes people's blood boil.
** This has also culminated to Roy going from low-tier scrappy to top-tier scrappy, thanks to the engine and buffs bolstering his offenses to new heights; this can also be best described in his "Both" section.
* '''[[VideoGame/Persona5 Joker]]''' has made a strong argument as the best character in the game. His excellent mobility, freeform combo structure, good edgeguarding, and versatile kit contribute a lot to his top-tier placing. But what makes Joker such a monster is [[MagikarpPower his Persona, Arsene]]. Ordinarily, Joker lacks KO power and has a mediocre recovery. However, when Joker summons Arsene, these weaknesses vanish. Arsene drastically improves all of Joker's attacks, gives him Tetrakarn/Makarakarn (easily the best counter/reflector in the game), and the Wings of Rebellion recovery move makes Joker invincible, leaving a very small window to punish him. While the character himself is DifficultButAwesome due to a high skill ceiling, it comes with learning to optimize Joker both with and without Arsene. He does have his fair share of struggling match-ups and has been balanced in patches to remove his more broken aspects (including a Pokemon Trainer pair-up GameBreaker that filled Joker's Rebellion gauge absurdly fast), so Joker's top-tier status is not banworthy. Many players agree that Joker is an acceptable "best character" to have; while he certainly deserves his top-tier status, Joker's presence doesn't destabilize the game. In the end, all of Joker's solid strengths and good reputation among the playerbase have made the Phantom Thief's claim for ''Ultimate'''s best character hard to challenge, with only Pikachu and Pyra/Mythra coming close.
* '''[[VideoGame/{{ARMS}} Min Min]]''' got hit with this as soon as launch. She possesses great edgeguarding capabilities, as she can bully the majority of characters off stage very easily until death. She also has a great punish game where she can kill at very early percents such as a back throw into Dragon Laser Forward Smash which ''kills at 0%'', an up smash which is one of the best anti-airs in the game due to its high kill power, absurd vertical range, being fast (it comes out on ''frame 7'', making it faster than Fox's up smash), and having a reflector hitbox. Min Min's general moves also have good frame data for their long range unlike characters with similar amounts of range such as Simon and Richter, Byleth and Sephiroth, while still possessing good combo tools. Although she's generally a not well-liked character, her presence in the metagame has got to the point she's become the most hated character in ''Japan'', which is saying something considering the country is well-known for their character diversity and sheer adaptability. Players such as Mao and [=ProtoBanham=] have upset players such as T and Zackray with the character with [=ProtoBanham=] getting 1st at Kagaribi 4, a Japanese supermajor, and virtually every Japanese set that has a Min Min is downvote-bombed by Japanese players[=/=]viewers on [=YouTube=]. Many in Japan believe that Min Min may be a contender for a ''top 10'' character, due to how she gatekeeps a large chunk of characters who aren't agile enough to evade her outstretched arms and reach her vulnerable main body before they retract, and she has harmed the overall metagame by lowering the diversity you can choose from, similarly to what Bayonetta did in ''3DS[=/=]Wii U'' (as detailed in the Series-Wide folder in ''Both''). Even overseas, some top players believe Min Min resides in top 15, and it's generally agreed that she's in the upper echelon of DLC characters.

* While he remains bloated by the significant amount of other infamous DLC characters, '''[[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]]''', the infamous human[=/=]devil hybrid and one of the faces of ''Tekken'' as a whole, has garnered a similarly distasteful opinion by some players. Whereas his "fighting game" brethren (Ryu, Ken and Terry) and other similar brawler characters (like Captain Falcon) have been known for being sufficiently sturdy to support their otherwise DifficultButAwesome concept, Kazuya breaks the mold by being a ''super heavyweight'' and, to boot, having access to universal armor and damage-based armor in his smash attacks in a similar vein to fellow super heavyweight Bowser. Kazuya's moveset is extremely extensive, being the largest of any character in the franchise, and not only does he have a move for every situation, a huge portion of his moveset deals double digits of damage (yes, ''per move''). Most if not all of his non-aerial moves also possess some degree of KO potential, and many of them render parts of his body invincible, essentially making such attacks disjointed. Due to his origins as a fighting game character, Kazuya also possesses the same inherent combo ability his peers have, but beefier thanks to his obscene damage output, to the point that when properly mastered, he is able to create touches of death off of a single interaction similarly to Luigi and Steve, especially thanks to moves such as his down throw, uncrouching attack, side special and (Electric) Wind God Fist serving as excellent combo starters. All of this, combined with his endurance, makes Kazuya a terror to face mano a mano and an even bigger one to be left alive past high percentages, especially due to his unique Rage mechanic (not to be confused with the similarly named ComebackMechanic since ''3DS[=/=]Wii U''). Kazuya does have his weaknesses in that his moveset and mobility are rather sluggish, he's very vulnerable to combos, transitions poorly from the ground to the air as a collective result of unique attributes, and his ridiculously extensive moveset amounts to DifficultButAwesome being taken to [[ExaggeratedTrope its logical extreme]]. As a result, Kazuya is rarely seen in tournaments, but given his aforementioned traits and his endless potential once mastered, not everyone is a fan of fighting The Iron Fist of Darkness in person despite being a crowd-pleaser for some. So far Kazuya's biggest achievement was a 9th place at Low Tide City thanks to Brr, but many top player smashers argue he has room to rise even more, and some argue he could wind up as one of the outright best characters in the game should he be optimized.

* '''[[VideoGame/Persona5 Joker]]''' has made a strong claim since his debut to be potentially the best character in the game. His excellent mobility, freeform combo structure, ability to edgeguard effectively, and easy switching between mid-ranged zoning and rushdown tactics contribute a lot to his top-tier placing. But what makes Joker such a monster to fight against is [[MagikarpPower the presence of his Persona, Arsene]]. Ordinarily, Joker lacks a reliable kill move and has a rather easy-to-gimp recovery with his grappling hook. However, when Joker summons Arsene, whatever weaknesses Joker has when he's by himself seemingly vanish. Arsene drastically improves all of Joker's attacks for a short period of time — his Gun Special bursts do more damage, Eigaon lingers upon landing to serve as a trap, Tetrakarn/Makarakarn is the strongest counter and reflector in the entire game, with an exceptionally strong 1.6 multiplier and a [[HitboxDissonance ludicrously huge hitbox]], and the Wings of Rebellion recovery move makes Joker invincible as he recovers, leaving only a small window to punish him. While the character himself tends to be considered DifficultButAwesome due to his high skill ceiling, and Arsene is decried as a crutch for Joker to rely on, players like [=MKLeo=] have pushed the limits on what the Phantom Thief can do, often winning matches without overly relying on Arsene's presence, with [=MKLeo=] even taking the World Championship at EVO 2019 with Joker. He does have his fair share of struggling match-ups such as Pikachu and Inkling, and was nerfed in update 7.0.0 to remove a few of his most broken aspects and in 11.0.0 to make his side and down special (with Arsene) more vulnerable if he whiffs, so Joker's top-tier status is not banworthy — he's more akin to ''Melee'' Fox than ''Brawl'' Meta Knight or ''Smash 4'' Bayonetta. All this combined with the shocking nature of his reveal and fan-favorite status make Joker a tier-induced base-breaker (similar to, again, ''Melee'' Fox). Many players agree that Joker is an acceptable "best character in the game" to have, as while he's certainly deserving of his top-tier status, his presence doesn't destabilize the game like with some previous top-tiers and that utilizing him to the best of his abilities has a deceptively tricky learning curve to boot thanks to having to learn how to optimize Joker with AND without Arsene. In the end, all of Joker's solid strengths and good reputation among the playerbase have made the Phantom Thief's claim for ''Ultimate'''s best character hard to challenge, with only Pikachu and Pyra/Mythra coming close.
** Joker was very good to begin with, but in Team Battle, pairing him up with Pokemon Trainer formerly made him more terrifying. In Team Battle, if any of Joker's teammates get hit his Rebellion Gauge goes up but if Pokemon Trainer switches Pokemon at 100 percent damage, Joker's Rebellion Gauge gets filled by half. This means in certain situations, Joker can get Arsene right off the bat and proceed to rip opponents apart. This synergy was so immensely powerful that it ended up immediately banned starting with Glitch 7. Update 6.0.0 removed this exploit, and Joker/Pokemon Trainer pair-ups are no longer banned as a result.

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Pyra and Mythra]]''' benefit from the same streamlined transformation mechanics as Pokémon Trainer, but Mythra is considered the better out of the two Aegis sisters. Mythra has excellent mobility; she packs ''the fastest inital dash'' in the game, and her frame data is absurdly good. She has excellent aerials that can be autocancellable to near spammable levels. Lightning Buster's hitbox is huge and has good kill setups, negating her supposed weakness of lackluster launch potential. Her hurtbox "pancakes" in many animations, making her incredibly hard to hit. Finally, there's [[GameBreaker Foresight]], which significantly slows the enemy down upon dodging; this allows for potentially devastating punishes, and works against just about anything with a hitbox. The swap mechanic with Pyra also allows Mythra to make up for her lack of KO power, allowing the Aegis sisters to be very adaptable. Although Pyra is generally more niche than Mythra (such as having a worse disadvantage state), she still benefits from powerful disjointed moves with great range that kill at absurdly low percents. On top of everything else, Pyra and Mythra's moves are very straightforward, allowing them to forego the otherwise expected DifficultButAwesome aspect of a transforming character that is prevalent with the Trainer. This, combined with [[BreakoutCharacter their immense popularity]], has given the duo a [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome humongous player base]]. This has caused a lot of people to consider the Aegis sisters as the only other characters that can rival Joker and Pikachu for the best in ''Ultimate'', resulting in the Aegis sisters drawing significant ire in competitive play for their sheer ubiquity.