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-->Beth Ann and Kris quickly discovered they shared an innate sense of silliness, a love of [=LEGOs=] and a passion for computer games.
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* Forgey wasn't the only InMemoriam in the game. After the GoldenEnding, the game gives an "In Memory Of Beth Ann Allen". She was the wife of Monolith's game data analyst Kris Havlak, who passed away at the tender age of 33. Her obituary can be found [[https://paloaltoonline.com/obituaries/memorials/elizabeth-ann-allen?o=4962 here]].
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* If you return to Lithlad as Talion (or worse, as Baranor using the skin), Torvin's gone. Talion never got to say goodbye.

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* If you return to Lithlad as Talion (or worse, as Baranor using the skin), Torvin's gone. Talion never got to say goodbye.goodbye.
* While the other regions have 4 Shadows of the Past missions (Minas Ithil/Morgul has 5), there are 6 in Lithlad; implying that Lithlad might have been a valuable asset when Celebrimbor challenged Sauron centuries ago. When Talion reaches it, Celebrimbor mentions that the land is so dead and useless they don't need it to challenge Sauron. The ruins and implied former tactical importance imply that the land has seen some better times, unlike the abandoned desert full of orcs it is when our heroes reach it.
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*** You're not even obligated to allow him an honorable death; ruthless players have the option of [[YouMonster utterly striping him of his dignity by shaming him until his mind breaks]], reducing him to a pitiful wretch who can only moan about how desperately he wants to rest.

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*** You're not even obligated to allow him an honorable death; ruthless players have the option of [[YouMonster utterly striping him of his dignity by shaming him until his mind breaks]], reducing him to a pitiful wretch who can only moan about how desperately he wants to rest.rest.

!Desolation of Mordor
* If you return to Lithlad as Talion (or worse, as Baranor using the skin), Torvin's gone. Talion never got to say goodbye.
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** [[spoiler:The game after this point has a somber feel to it. Talion, for the first time in a ''long'' time, is truly alone, and you can practically feel him fight the darkness throughout the entire chapter. At that point, his "life" consists of a repeating cycle of violence which he refuses to let go of, since he knows that if (or even ''when'') he lets himself be distracted, he could finally lose it and never see his family ever again. The ''Blade of Galadriel'' implies he has some friends in his army, but considering that most of said army [[BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood likely wasn't given a choice in joining his side]], even those relationships feel artificial.]].
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* Similarily, losing an orc you were genuinely fond of. Especially if they bled to death and you were unable to save them because an enemy kept interrupting you, or when the game rarely skips the "bleeding" phase altogether; The game treats you with a cutscene of, for example, your follower being impaled from behind. Then you just have to hope they come back from the dead without betraying you. (Unless they lost their head, of course) [[spoiler:While Act IV allows you to resurrect them, Undead captains lose their personality and it's implied to be AFateWorseThanDeath so rising them doesn't really bring ''[[EmptyShell them]]'' back and feels disrespectful]].
** And of course, the fact that there's always the chance that they betray you if they do come back. Especially bad if you managed to keep them alive through the entire game; at that point you won't want to kill ''or'' shame them. If they have Iron will, there's no way to deal with them without risking permanent damage.
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-->'''Talion''': Please! Don't let me die here in this cursed land.

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-->'''Talion''': Please! ''Please''! [[LastRequest Don't let me die here in this cursed land.land]].
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** [[spoiler:To twist the knife ''even'' further, Celebrimbor just watches Talion choke on the ground before vanishing from Talion's view and "life". No apology, no "Thank You", not even a comforting reminder that at least Talion can finally join his family. He just stares at his struggles to stay alive and leaves without a word]].
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** It's already bad but had you collected Gondorian artifacts [[spoiler: where Talion and Clebrimbor had friendly conversations over most of them it's heartbreaking to see Celebrimbor so cold he betrays the closest thing he had to a friend.]]

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** It's already bad but had you collected Gondorian artifacts [[spoiler: where Talion and Clebrimbor had friendly conversations over most of them it's heartbreaking to see Celebrimbor so cold he betrays the closest thing he had to a friend. Worse, when you collect the artifacts ''after'' the betrayal, the silence is deafening after Idril's narration. There's no longer any commentary on them.]]
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** During the credits after the GoldenEnding, the Forthog video plays again -- this time with intercut with photos of Forgey from young childhood to teenager strumming a guitar to the man he was when ''Shadow of Mordor'' was released. It closes with the epitaph '''FORGEY FOREVER'''.

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** During the credits after the GoldenEnding, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVDuuDYYCl8 the Forthog video plays again again]] -- this time with intercut with photos of Forgey from young childhood to teenager strumming a guitar to the man he was when ''Shadow of Mordor'' was released. It closes with the epitaph '''FORGEY FOREVER'''.
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[[quoteright:350:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/middle_earth__shadow_of_war_20180214204156.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:350:'''Forgey Forever''']]
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--> I have no remorse for the life I've led. I have served Morgoth well, and am ready to die with honor.
--> So... this is how the last of Morgoth's host falls. At least it was not at the hand's of Sauron's abominations.
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*** You're not even obligated to allow him an honorable death; ruthless players have the option of [[YouMonster utterly striping him of his dignity by shaming him until his mind breaks]], who can only moan about how desperately he wants to rest.

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*** You're not even obligated to allow him an honorable death; ruthless players have the option of [[YouMonster utterly striping him of his dignity by shaming him until his mind breaks]], reducing him to a pitiful wretch who can only moan about how desperately he wants to rest.

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* After you complete the DLC, all the followers you gained are unlocked in Talion's story. While you could [[VideoGameCareingPotential support, advance, and protect them as much as possible]], you're also able to [[VideoGameCrueltyPotential betray, abandon, shame, and mentally break them as you see fit]]. Depending on how unique, memorable, or endearing you found these characters, seeing them reduced to shallow wrecks of their formers selves can be pretty hard to watch.

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* After you complete the DLC, all the followers you gained are unlocked in Talion's story. While you could [[VideoGameCareingPotential [[VideoGameCaringPotential support, advance, and protect them as much as possible]], you're also able to [[VideoGameCrueltyPotential betray, abandon, shame, and mentally break them as you see fit]]. Depending on how unique, memorable, or endearing you found these characters, seeing them reduced to shallow wrecks of their formers selves can be pretty hard to watch.



--> So... this is how the last of Morgoth's host falls. At least it wasn't at the hand's of Sauron's abominations.
A prevailing theme in Tolkien's lore is how [[TheMagicGoesAway everything ancient and wonderful in the world is slowly dying, and soon it will all fade into a mundane, ordinary world]]. Upon killing the Bow of Morgoth, you realize that even not even the darker things are immune to this inevitable decline; a decline you just precipitated by slaughtering one of the last holdouts from [[GoldenAge the First Age]].

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--> So... this is how the last of Morgoth's host falls. At least it wasn't was not at the hand's of Sauron's abominations.
** A prevailing theme in Tolkien's lore is how [[TheMagicGoesAway everything ancient and wonderful in the world is slowly dying, and soon it will all fade into a mundane, ordinary world]]. Upon killing the Bow of Morgoth, you realize that even not even the darker things are immune to this inevitable decline; a decline you just precipitated by slaughtering one of the last holdouts from [[GoldenAge the First Age]].Age]].
*** You're not even obligated to allow him an honorable death; ruthless players have the option of [[YouMonster utterly striping him of his dignity by shaming him until his mind breaks]], who can only moan about how desperately he wants to rest.
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** The worst part? Every Nazgul memory that was seen was due to the weakness of the wielder. Talion was the only ringbearer whose intentions were wholly ''pure'' and untouched by pride or desire for power.

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** The worst part? Every Nazgul memory that was seen was due to the weakness of the wielder. Talion was the only ringbearer whose intentions were wholly ''pure'' and untouched by pride or desire for power.power.
* After you complete the DLC, all the followers you gained are unlocked in Talion's story. While you could [[VideoGameCareingPotential support, advance, and protect them as much as possible]], you're also able to [[VideoGameCrueltyPotential betray, abandon, shame, and mentally break them as you see fit]]. Depending on how unique, memorable, or endearing you found these characters, seeing them reduced to shallow wrecks of their formers selves can be pretty hard to watch.
** The death of Flint has apparently destroyed Tinder; while most Orcs need to be [[FateWorseThanDeath mind raped multiple times by a wraith empowered by evil magic]] before they become deranged, Tinder has already fallen into that state before you even lay your hand on him, unable to speak coherently, and occasionally calling for the blood brother he should already know is dead.
** Although still a ruthless killer, The Bow of Morgoth is shown to have a sense of honor beyond what most other Orcs possess, implying that the Orcs of the first age were more of a ProudWarriorRace than AlwaysChaoticEvil . But if you push him too far or mistreat him too much, he will still turn against you. If it comes down to killing him, he seems almost glad that the centuries of war and bloodshed are finally over.
--> [[LastOfTheirKind I have stood alone for too long]]. I go now to stand with my brothers in the unending night. Finish it.
--> I have no remorse for the life I've led. I have served Morgoth well, and am ready to die with honor.
--> So... this is how the last of Morgoth's host falls. At least it wasn't at the hand's of Sauron's abominations.
A prevailing theme in Tolkien's lore is how [[TheMagicGoesAway everything ancient and wonderful in the world is slowly dying, and soon it will all fade into a mundane, ordinary world]]. Upon killing the Bow of Morgoth, you realize that even not even the darker things are immune to this inevitable decline; a decline you just precipitated by slaughtering one of the last holdouts from [[GoldenAge the First Age]].

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* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he could before its corruption consumed it. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of [[ItsAllMyFault guilt and regret]] that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions]] drove a good man seeking only to [[CrusadingWidower avenge the murders of his family]] before being [[TogetherInDeath reunited with them in death]] into [[HeWhoFightsMonsters becoming a monster in thrall to the same evil that took everything he loved from him]]. Is it any wonder she refuses Galadriel's invitation to go West and instead remains in Mordor to continue fighting?

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* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he could before its corruption consumed it. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of [[ItsAllMyFault guilt and regret]] that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions]] drove a good man seeking only to [[CrusadingWidower avenge the murders of his family]] before being [[TogetherInDeath reunited with them in death]] into [[HeWhoFightsMonsters becoming a monster in thrall to the same evil that took everything he loved from him]]. Is it any wonder she refuses Galadriel's invitation to go West and instead remains in Mordor to continue fighting?fighting?
** The worst part? Every Nazgul memory that was seen was due to the weakness of the wielder. Talion was the only ringbearer whose intentions were wholly ''pure'' and untouched by pride or desire for power.
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* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he could before its corruption consumed it. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of [[ItsAllMyFault guilt and regret]] that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions]] drove a good man seeking only to [[CrusadingWidower avenge the murders of his family]] before being [[TogetherInDeath reunited with them in death]] into [[HeWhoFightsMonsters becoming a monster in thrall to the same evil that took everything he loved from him]].

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* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he could before its corruption consumed it. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of [[ItsAllMyFault guilt and regret]] that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions]] drove a good man seeking only to [[CrusadingWidower avenge the murders of his family]] before being [[TogetherInDeath reunited with them in death]] into [[HeWhoFightsMonsters becoming a monster in thrall to the same evil that took everything he loved from him]]. Is it any wonder she refuses Galadriel's invitation to go West and instead remains in Mordor to continue fighting?
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* After the final defeat of the Sisters, Eltariel notices Talion collapse, and both realise he is finally on the verge of succumbing to Isildur's ring. Galadriel urges Eltariel to take the Ring and kill Talion before he falls and the chance is lost, but Talion begs Eltariel to take him back to Gondor, pleading that he doesn't want to die in Mordor. Eltariel, no doubt feeling guilty for her role in his fall, stays her hand and agrees to Talion's final request.

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* After the final defeat of the Sisters, Eltariel notices Talion collapse, and both realise he is finally on the verge of succumbing to Isildur's ring. Galadriel urges Eltariel to take the Ring and kill Talion before he falls and the chance is lost, but Talion begs Eltariel to take him back to Gondor, pleading that he doesn't want to die in Mordor. Eltariel, [[ItsAllMyFault no doubt feeling guilty for her role in his fall, fall]], stays her hand and agrees to Talion's final request.



* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he was able. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of guilt and regret that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions drove a good man seeking only to avenge the unjust deaths of his family into becoming a monster]].

to:

* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he was able. could before its corruption consumed it. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of [[ItsAllMyFault guilt and regret regret]] that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions actions]] drove a good man seeking only to [[CrusadingWidower avenge the unjust deaths murders of his family family]] before being [[TogetherInDeath reunited with them in death]] into [[HeWhoFightsMonsters becoming a monster]].monster in thrall to the same evil that took everything he loved from him]].
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-->'''Eltariel''': Of course.

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-->'''Eltariel''': Of course.course.
* After finally striking down the Ringwraith Talion has become, Eltariel sees a vision of Talion's past; she sees Ioreth and Dirhael's murder, Celebrimbor's betrayal, aided by her, and Talion taking up Isildur's ring, vowing to fight back the armies of Sauron for as long as he was able. When the vision finally ends and Talion's twisted spirit departs back to Barad-dûr to regenerate, Eltariel's expression is one of guilt and regret that [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone her actions drove a good man seeking only to avenge the unjust deaths of his family into becoming a monster]].
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* After the final defeat of the Sisters, Eltariel notices Talion collapse, and both realise he is finally on the verge of succumbing to Isildur's ring. Galadriel urges Eltariel to take the Ring and kill Talion before he falls and the chance is lost, but Talion begs Eltariel to take him back to Gondor, pleading that he doesn't want to die in Mordor. Eltariel, no doubt feeling guilty for her role in his fall, stays her hand and agrees to Talion's final request.

to:

* After the final defeat of the Sisters, Eltariel notices Talion collapse, and both realise he is finally on the verge of succumbing to Isildur's ring. Galadriel urges Eltariel to take the Ring and kill Talion before he falls and the chance is lost, but Talion begs Eltariel to take him back to Gondor, pleading that he doesn't want to die in Mordor. Eltariel, no doubt feeling guilty for her role in his fall, stays her hand and agrees to Talion's final request.request.
-->'''Talion''': My time has come. Take me home to Gondor.
-->'''Galadriel''': Take the Ring, now. You will not get another chance.
-->'''Talion''': Please! Don't let me die here in this cursed land.
-->'''Eltariel''': Of course.
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* Eltariel bears witness to [[spoiler:Talion finally succumbing to TheCorruption of Isildur's ring, ForcedToWatch as her on-and-off ally is DrivenToVillainy... and as they both know, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero it's her fault he even had to take Isildur's ring in the first place]], so he blames her]].

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* Eltariel bears witness to [[spoiler:Talion finally succumbing to TheCorruption of Isildur's ring, ForcedToWatch as her on-and-off ally is DrivenToVillainy... and as they both know, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero it's her fault he even had to take Isildur's ring in the first place]], so he blames her]].her]].
* After the final defeat of the Sisters, Eltariel notices Talion collapse, and both realise he is finally on the verge of succumbing to Isildur's ring. Galadriel urges Eltariel to take the Ring and kill Talion before he falls and the chance is lost, but Talion begs Eltariel to take him back to Gondor, pleading that he doesn't want to die in Mordor. Eltariel, no doubt feeling guilty for her role in his fall, stays her hand and agrees to Talion's final request.
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* We finally find out Eltariel's motive. Galadriel will not allow her to return to her home until the Nazgul are dead. Think about it, she cannot return home until she finds a way to kill every Nazgul, and no-one has ever been able to kill even ''one''. [[labelnote:Note (spoilers)]]We don't know how Helm's and Isildur's predecessors died, for all we know, Sauron could have killed them[[/labelnote]] And that's before [[spoiler:she finds out that Talion is now one of the nine; so not only is her friend now her enemy, the one Nazgul that did die was immediately replaced.]]

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* We finally find out Eltariel's motive. Galadriel will not allow her to return to her home until the Nazgul are dead. Think about it, she cannot return home until she finds a way to kill every Nazgul, and no-one has ever been able to kill even ''one''. [[labelnote:Note (spoilers)]]We don't know how Helm's and Isildur's predecessors died, for all we know, Sauron could have killed them[[/labelnote]] And that's before [[spoiler:she finds out that Talion is now one of the nine; so not only is her friend now her enemy, the one Nazgul that did die was immediately replaced.]]]]
* Eltariel bears witness to [[spoiler:Talion finally succumbing to TheCorruption of Isildur's ring, ForcedToWatch as her on-and-off ally is DrivenToVillainy... and as they both know, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero it's her fault he even had to take Isildur's ring in the first place]], so he blames her]].
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* You can kick out any Orc out of your army if you ever feel like it. Some Orcs however will [[WhattheHellHero call you out on it]] stating that they would've been [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to you till the end]] and you just kicked them out like a disposable henchmen. They probably feel the same way you might feel when an Uruk betrays you.

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* You can kick out any Orc out of your army if you ever feel like it. Some Orcs however will [[WhattheHellHero call you out on it]] stating that they would've been [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to you till the end]] and you just kicked them out like a disposable henchmen. They probably feel the same way you might feel when an Uruk betrays you.you.

! The Blade of Galadriel
* We finally find out Eltariel's motive. Galadriel will not allow her to return to her home until the Nazgul are dead. Think about it, she cannot return home until she finds a way to kill every Nazgul, and no-one has ever been able to kill even ''one''. [[labelnote:Note (spoilers)]]We don't know how Helm's and Isildur's predecessors died, for all we know, Sauron could have killed them[[/labelnote]] And that's before [[spoiler:she finds out that Talion is now one of the nine; so not only is her friend now her enemy, the one Nazgul that did die was immediately replaced.]]
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** [[spoiler: Imagine this from Talion's viewpoint: You could finally die and join your family, but with the knowledge [[MyGreatestFailure that you allowed a monster worse than Sauron to rise to power and that your actions doomed Middle-earth]]. Your other option is to take one of the rings, allowing you to atone for your mistakes and protect Middle-earth but inevitably become a slave to an another monster ''and'' lose your possibly only chance to ''ever'' see your family again.]]

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* Talion is forced to relive his wife and son's death. When he recalls the "sneak up with flowers" with his wife, Ioreth's spirit tells him none of it is real, and she is dead as blood pours down her front from her throat. His desperate [[PleaseDontLeaveMe pleading for her not to leave him again]] is truly heartbreaking as he desperately tries to reach out to Ioreth even as she fades away.

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* Talion is forced to relive his wife and son's death. When he recalls the "sneak up with flowers" with his wife, Ioreth's spirit tells him none of it is real, and she is dead as [[SlashedThroat blood pours down her front from her throat.throat]]. His desperate [[PleaseDontLeaveMe pleading for her not to leave him again]] is truly heartbreaking as he desperately tries to reach out to Ioreth even as she fades away.


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* Mixed with NightmareFuel; Idril's scream of horror when [[spoiler: the Witch King kills Castamir. Even if he was plotting treason with the Lord of the Nazgûl in a doomed bid to save Idril's life, she's still just seen her father, the only family she had left, brutally murdered in front of her]].
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Not to be a Grammer Nazi, but proper Grammer matters.


** Even worse, if an Orc gets shamed repeatedly without going insane he might start to complain how everyone is mocking him now, shame him again and he will yell at you how it's gotten even worse with the mocking and insulting and went from hating for for shaming him to just begging you to just end him because he can't take it anymore. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEqREyb820 see for yourself]]

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** Even worse, if an Orc gets shamed repeatedly without going insane he might start to complain how everyone is mocking him now, shame him again and he will yell at you how it's gotten even worse with the mocking and insulting and went from hating for for shaming him to just begging you to just end him because he can't take it anymore. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEqREyb820 see See for yourself]]yourself.]]
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** During the credits after the GoldenEnding, the Forthog video plays again -- this time with intercut with photos of Forgey from young childhood to teenager strumming a guitar to the man he was when ''Shadow of Mordor''. It closes with the epitaph '''FORGEY FOREVER'''.

to:

** During the credits after the GoldenEnding, the Forthog video plays again -- this time with intercut with photos of Forgey from young childhood to teenager strumming a guitar to the man he was when ''Shadow of Mordor''.Mordor'' was released. It closes with the epitaph '''FORGEY FOREVER'''.
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* You can kick out any Orc out of your army if you ever feel like it, some orc's however will [[WhattheHellHero call you out on it]] stating that they would've been [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to you till the end]] and you just kicked them out like a disposable henchmen. they probably feel the same way you might feel when an uruk betrays you.

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* You can kick out any Orc out of your army if you ever feel like it, some orc's it. Some Orcs however will [[WhattheHellHero call you out on it]] stating that they would've been [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to you till the end]] and you just kicked them out like a disposable henchmen. they They probably feel the same way you might feel when an uruk Uruk betrays you.
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** During the credits after the GoldenEnding, the Forthog video plays again -- this time with intercut with photos of Forgey from young childhood to teenager strumming a guitar to the man he was when ''Shadow of Mordor''. It closes with the epitaph '''FORGEY FOREVER'''.
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* An Orc becoming [[DespairEventHorizon Deranged]] can sometimes become this, with the Orc reduced to a permanent near bawling state. Especially heartbreaking if this Orc was a former ally who betrayed the player or a WorthyOpponent.

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* An Orc becoming [[DespairEventHorizon Deranged]] can sometimes become this, with the Orc reduced to a permanent near bawling state. Especially heartbreaking if this Orc was a former ally who betrayed the player or a WorthyOpponent.WorthyOpponent.
** Even worse, if an Orc gets shamed repeatedly without going insane he might start to complain how everyone is mocking him now, shame him again and he will yell at you how it's gotten even worse with the mocking and insulting and went from hating for for shaming him to just begging you to just end him because he can't take it anymore. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEqREyb820 see for yourself]]
* You can kick out any Orc out of your army if you ever feel like it, some orc's however will [[WhattheHellHero call you out on it]] stating that they would've been [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to you till the end]] and you just kicked them out like a disposable henchmen. they probably feel the same way you might feel when an uruk betrays you.

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