History Quotes / TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks

->''Our entire reality '''changed''' and '''[[DarkerAndEdgier darkened]]'''. Working a dreadful reverse '''alchemy''', [[spoiler: Marcus Langston]] let our world slide from a '''Golden''' Age to a '''Silver''' Age, and finally to a '''Dark''' Age. Now, heroes motivated only by '''[[OnlyInItForTheMoney money]]''' or '''[[TheSociopath psychopatholgy]]''' (sic) stalked a '''paranoid''', '''apocalyptic''' landscape of [[AfterTheEnd post-nuclear]] '''mutants''' and [[Main/{{BFG}} bazooka]] [[SuperheroPackingHeat wielding]] '''cyborgs'''.[='=]''

->''Seems like '''my''' style of professional behavior is out of '''fashion''', at odds with this increasingly '''violent society'''. Maybe guys like the '''[[ComicBook/{{ThePunisher}} Punisher]]''', '''ComicBook/{{Cable}}''', and '''ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}''' are the '''answer''' to the kinds of threats America faces today. Maybe '''bad attitudes''' and '''lax moral codes''' are the only way to make headway. The '''values''' I've striven for my entire career seem so... '''untenable''' in this present clime. But without them, what '''am''' I?[='=]''

->''Seems like '''my''' style of professional behavior is out of '''fashion''', at odds with this increasingly '''violent society'''. Maybe guys like the '''[[ComicBook/{{ThePunisher}} Punisher]]''', '''ComicBook/Cable''', and '''ComicBook/Wolverine''' are the '''answer''' to the kinds of threats America faces today. Maybe '''bad attitudes''' and '''lax moral codes''' are the only way to make headway. The '''values''' I've striven for my entire career seem so... '''untenable''' in this present clime. But without them, what '''am''' I?[='=]''

->''Seems like '''my''' style of professional behavior if out of '''fashion''', at odds with this increasingly '''violent society'''. Maybe guys like the '''Punisher''', '''Cable''', and '''Wolverine''' are the '''answer''' to the kinds of threats America faces today. Maybe '''bad attitudes''' and '''lax moral codes''' are the only way to make headway. The '''values''' I've striven for my entire career seem so... '''untenable''' in this present clime. But without them, what '''am''' I?[='=]''

->''Our entire reality '''changed''' and '''[[DarkerAndEdgier darkened]]'''. Working a dreadful reverse '''alchemy''', [[spoiler: Marcus Langston]] let our world slide from a '''Golden''' Age to a '''Silver''' Age, and finally to a '''Dark''' Age. Now, heroes motivated only by '''[[OnlyInItForTheMoney money]]''' or '''[[TheSociopath psychopatholgy]]''' (sic) stalked a '''paranoid''', '''apocalyptic''' landscape of [[AfterTheEnd post-nuclear]] '''mutants''' and [[Main/{{BFG}} bazooka]] wielding '''cyborgs'''.[='=]''

->''Our entire reality '''changed''' and '''darkened'''. Working a dreadful reverse '''alchemy''', [[spoiler: Marcus Langston]] let our world slide from a '''Golden''' Age to a '''Silver''' Age, and finally to a '''Dark''' Age. Now, heroes motivated only by '''[[OnlyInItForTheMoney money]]''' or '''[[TheSociopath psychopatholgy]]''' (sic) stalked a '''paranoid''', '''apocalyptic''' landscape of [[AfterTheEnd post-nuclear]] '''mutants''' and [[Main/{{BFG}} bazooka]] wielding '''cyborgs'''.[='=]''

->''Our entire reality '''changed''' and '''darkened'''. Working a dreadful reverse '''alchemy''', [[spoiler: Marcus Langston]] let our world slide from a '''Golden''' Age to a '''Silver''' Age, and finally to a '''Dark''' Age. Now, heroes motivated only by [[OnlyInItForTheMoney '''money''']] or [[TheSociopath '''psychopatholgy''']] (sic) stalked a '''paranoid''', '''apocalyptic''' landscape of [[AfterTheEnd post-nuclear]] '''mutants''' and [[BFG bazooka]] wielding '''cyborgs'''.[='=]''

->''Our entire reality '''changed''' and '''darkened'''. Working a dreadful reverse '''alchemy''', [[spoiler: Marcus Langston]] let our world slide from a '''Golden''' Age to a '''Silver''' Age, and finally to a '''Dark''' Age. Now, heroes, motivated only by '''money''' or '''psychopathy''' stalked a '''paranoid''', '''apocalyptic''' landscape of post-nuclear '''mutants''' and bazooka wielding '''cyborgs'''.[='=]''

->"It was an examination of the flaws in superheroism as seen through the lens of realism of ordinary humanity.]] But instead, we gets angsty superheroes completely failing to remember why they superhero at all."

'''David''': ''Blood Pack'' [[PoesLaw was a DC comic, Laura.\]]\

->''Meet Switchblade [=McGurk=], another punk-looking anti-hero running around a depressing post-apocalyptic city that's ripped off from ''Film/BladeRunner''. Crammed with plenty of violence and sleaze that readers will defend as '[[RatedMForMoney cutting edge.]][='=]''

It's just that goodness is out of style\\\

-->-- "Xeriouxly Forxe" theme song [[http://homestarrunner.com/aprilfool10.html (Homestar Runner April fool's toon)]]

-->-- '''I Fight Dragons''' - [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjqqRlgzv6c No One Likes Superman Anymore]]

!!!Fiction
->''"Revamped for {{the nineties}}!''\\
''So much more exciting!''\\
''[[Creator/RobLiefeld Pointy elbows]] and [[CyberpunkWithAChanceOfRain lots of lightning!]]''\\
''[[TrueArtIsAngsty Edgy and angry]], [[EvilTastesGood so zesty and tangy]]!''\\
''There's new demographics''\\
''When nobody asked for it!"''

->''"'Cause no one wants to know the man who stands for things we outgrow\\
He's [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids too noble and too blind]]\\
We're all older now and we don't need someone to care about\\
The innocence we left behind\\\
Don't touch that dial\\

Dark knight, bright soul, ([[EvilIsSexy We're addicted]])\\
[[CrapsackWorld No room here for the bold]]"''

->''These '[[ARealManIsAKiller no-nonsense]]' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks jet powered apes and time travel]]."

->''"Meet Switchblade [=McGurk=], another punk-looking anti-hero running around a [[CityNoir depressing post-apocalyptic city]] that's ripped off from Film/BladeRunner. Crammed with plenty of violence and sleaze that readers will defend as '[[RatedMForMoney cutting edge.]]'"''

!!!RealLife
->And speaking of Creator/AlanMoore, let's talk about ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'', because that book is single-handedly responsible for realism being modern shorthand for grimdark and misery, where "grimdark" is a blanket term that covers amorality, gratuitous violence, and general bad time for all involved. See, whenever a book becomes popular to an unprecedented degree, it either spawns off a genre of imitators or alters its existing genre for the same reason. [[FollowTheLeader It's popular, so people want to do what it did.]] [...] A good chunk of the book is showing us the failure of humanity, the dregs of the population, all that nasty stuff. It looks like the pinnacle of modern grimdark, an onslaught of misery realistic examination of the dark face of humanity. But! But the book is subverting this! Because in the middle of all the broad strokes definitions of humanity and cruel, you know, in between all these living gods making decisions about humanity as a whole for the greater good, the books shows us little moments of good amid the bad. [...] Alan Moore, king of the grimdark, very deliberately shows us that basic human kindness is alive and well, and more importantly that these godlike superheroes are failing to see it. And then ''Watchmen'' gets popular and suddenly DC's Grimdark City because all these writers missed the point. They though they were emulating ''Watchmen'', [[UnbuiltTrope but Alan Moore didn't write ''Watchmen'' as a self-indulgent angst fest on the failure of the human condition. It was an examination of the flaws in superheroism as seen through the lens of realism of ordinary humanity.]] But instead, we gets angsty superheroes completely failing to remember why they superhero at all.
-->-- '''Red''', '''WebAnimation/OverlySarcasticProductions''', "[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9_ODNTNDrY Trope Talk: Realism]]"

->When ''Watchmen'' came out and was a huge success, many writers tried to copy its success, but they took away the wrong lessons. Instead of telling an original story in a different way, they mimicked the surface-level realism and grittiness.
-->-- '''WebVideo/ComicTropes''', "[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KzhYw_59_A Watchmen's Exquisite Corpse: Doomsday Clock]]"

->''"I tend to think that I've seen a lot of things over the past 15 years that have been a bizarre echo of somebody else's bad mood. It's not even their bad mood, [[{{ComicBook/Watchmen}} it's mine]], but they're still working out the ramifications of me [[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers being a bit grumpy]] 15 years ago."''
-->-- '''Creator/AlanMoore''' on what he partially set in motion, [[http://www.avclub.com/article/alan-moore-13740 AV Club interview]]

->''"At the time, it was a dreadful setback for the idea of 'grown-up' superhero comics. In hindsight, it was [[{{Eagleland}} America's]] inevitable reaction to ''Watchmen'', and the only response that could possibly be effective: Fuck realism, we just want our superheroes to [[MisaimedFandom look cool and kick ten]] [[JustHereForGodzilla thousand kinds of ass.]]"''
-->--'''Creator/GrantMorrison''', ''Supergods''

->''"Comics in the '90s were profoundly shitty -- they were dreadfully cynical exercises in whorish crap."''
-->-- '''Creator/HowardChaykin''', [[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53510 "On Superhero Absurdity"]]

->''"In the eighties, some comic book writers '[[{{Deconstruction}} deconstructed]]' heroism by showing the good guys to be unpleasant, greedy, lascivious -- traits many readers found titillating, especially when [[CerebusRetcon grafted onto heroes from earlier eras]]. Those stories had some immediate shock value -- they certainly got the audience's attention -- but, over time, deconstruction is a very limiting narrative strategy. Where do you go, once you've shown your hero to be a creep? You've given readers [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy no one to admire, to root for, no one to identify with]] (unless they're the kind of readers you don't want to meet); eventually, they'll tire of someone who, in real life, they'd cross the street to avoid."''

->'''David''': Both Batman and Robin’s costumes also come with [[{{Squib}} blood packs]]. These guys really should be bulky like Liefeld heroes, if you think about it.\\
'''Laura''': BLOOD PACKS sounds like it should have been an insane ''Comicbook/{{New 52}}'' comic written and drawn by Creator/RobLiefeld. Just blood-filled pouches as far as the eye can see.\\
'''David''': ''Blood Pack'' [[PoesLaw was a DC comic]], Laura.\\
'''Laura''': NO. Did I just [[RealityWarper invent the past with my mind?]] When was this? Was it the ’90s?\\

->''"For a brief period during ComicBook/{{the Clone Saga}}, before Bob Harras waded in and decided ComicBook/NormanOsborn needed to come back to be Peter's BigBad, the Green Goblin trademark was just kind of sitting around unused... hey, why not work a ''heroic'' Green Goblin into the Spider-Man universe? ('Because that's fucking stupid,' isn't an acceptable answer, either.)... The fact that Urich tried to call himself Green Goblin as a hero is the part of all this stupidity that really kills me. He could've used, like, the Flying Prankster or Happy Halloween Man, or anything that hadn't been used by a guy who killed people. Instead, he opts to do the equivalent of dressing up in a magical Adolf Hitler costume and striding out to become a superhero. This is not a fucking good idea. People aren't going to take it well. [[LeeroyJenkins That didn't stop motherfucking Phil Urich.]]"''

->''"As stated, it was the 90s when this comic was written. Creator/AlanMoore and Creator/FrankMiller's darker, grittier comics were already huge in America. Everyone was more inclined to damn [[TheManIsStickingItToTheMan The Man]] and less inclined to salute him, and so Franchise/{{Superman}}'s principles of [[ForGreatJustice justice and truth and whatnot]] were looking more and more old fashioned every day... The creators felt that Superman's moral, by-the-books boyscout routine was getting a little hokey, so they went ahead and violated everything that Superman stood for by having him grow a wicked beard, go shithouse-crazy on a couple of Hitlers and burn himself alive, and it was still one of the worst comics of all time."''

->And speaking of Creator/AlanMoore, let's talk about ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'', because that book is single-handedly responsible for realism being modern shorthand for grimdark and misery, where "grimdark" is a blanket term that covers amorality, gratuitous violence, and general bad time for all involved. See, whenever a book becomes popular to an unprecedented degree, it either spawns off a genre of imitators or alters its existing genre for the same reason. [[FollowTheLeader It's popular, so people want to do what it did.]] [...] A good chunk of the book is showing us the failure of humanity, the dregs of the population, all that nasty stuff. It looks like the pinnacle of modern grimdark, an onslaught of misery realistic examination of the dark face of humanity. But! But the book is subverting this! Because in the middle of all the broad strokes definitions of humanity and cruel, you know, in between all these living gods making decisions about humanity as a whole for the greater good, the books shows us little moments of good amid the bad. [...] Alan Moore, king of the grimdark, very deliberately shows us that basic human kindness is alive and well, and more importantly that these godlike superheroes are failing to see it. And then ''Watchmen'' gets popular and suddenly DC's Grimdark City because all these writers missed the point. They though they were emulating ''Watchmen'', but Alan Moore didn't write ''Watchmen'' as a self-indulgent angst fest on the failure of the human condition. It was an examination of the flaws in superheroism as seen through the lens of realism of ordinary humanity. But instead, we gets angsty superheroes completely failing to remember why they superhero at all.

->''"At the time, it was a dreadful setback for the idea of 'grown-up' superhero comics. In hindsight, it was [[{{Eagleland}} America's]] inevitable reaction to ''Watchmen'', and the only response that could possibly be effective: Fuck realism, we just want our superheroes to [[MisaimedFandom look cool and kick ten thousand kinds of ass.]]"''

-->--'''Denny O'Neil''', ''The DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics''

'''Laura''': BLOOD PACKS sounds like it should have been an insane ''Comicbook/{{New 52}}'' comic written and drawn by Rob Liefeld. Just blood-filled pouches as far as the eye can see.\\

-->--'''[[http://comicsalliance.com/batman-odyssey/ Laura Hudson and David Wolkin]]''', "The Complete and Utter Insanity of ''ComicBook/BatmanOdyssey''"

-->-- '''[=ComicTropes=]''', "[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KzhYw_59_A Watchmen's Exquisite Corpse: Doomsday Clock]]"

->''"Meet Switchblade [=McGurk=], another punk-looking anti-hero running around a [[CityNoir depressing post-apocalyptic city]] that's ripped off from Film/BladeRunner. Crammed with plenty of violence and sleaze that readers will defend as '[[RatedMForMoney cutting edge.]]"''

->When ''Watchmen'' came out and was a huge success, many writers tried to copy its success, but they took away the wrong lessons. Instead of telling an original story in a different way, they mimicked the surface-level realisma grittiness.

->''"And speaking of Creator/AlanMoore, let's talk about ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'', because that book is single-handedly responsible for realism being modern shorthand for grimdark and misery, where "grimdark" is a blanket term that covers amorality, gratuitous violence, and general bad time for all involved. See, whenever a book becomes popular to an unprecedented degree, it either spawns off a genre of imitators or alters its existing genre for the same reason. [[FollowTheLeader It's popular, so people want to do what it did.]] [...] A good chunk of the book is showing us the failure of humanity, the dregs of the population, all that nasty stuff. It looks like the pinnacle of modern grimdark, an onslaught of misery realistic examination of the dark face of humanity. But! But the book is subverting this! Because in the middle of all the broad strokes definitions of humanity and cruel, you know, in between all these living gods making decisions about humanity as a whole for the greater good, the books shows us little moments of good amid the bad. [...] Alan Moore, king of the grimdark, very deliberately shows us that basic human kindness is alive and well, and more importantly that these godlike superheroes are failing to see it. And then ''Watchmen'' gets popular and suddenly DC's Grimdark City because all these writers missed the point. They though they were emulating ''Watchmen'', but Alan Moore didn't write ''Watchmen'' as a self-indulgent angst fest on the failure of the human condition. It was an examination of the flaws in superheroism as seen through the lens of realism of ordinary humanity. But instead, we gets angsty superheroes completely failing to remember why they superhero at all."''

->''"And speaking of Creator/AlanMoore, let's talk about ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'', because that book is single-handedly responsible for realism being modern shorthand for grimdark and misery, where "grimdark" is a blanket term that covers amorality, gratuitous violence, and general bad time for all involved. See, whenever a book becomes popular to an unprecedented degree, it either spawns off a genre of imitators or alters its existing genre for the same reason. [[FollowTheLeader It's popular, so people want to do what it did.]] ''Watchmen'' was a miserably unhappy re-examination of a bunch of thinly-veiled DC {{Expies}} where Alan Moore sat down with the character premises and thought through what they'd actually do. [...] A good chunk of the book is showing us the failure of humanity, the dregs of the population, all that nasty stuff. It looks like the pinnacle of modern grimdark, an onslaught of misery realistic examination of the dark face of humanity. But! But the book is subverting this! Because in the middle of all the broad strokes definitions of humanity and cruel, you know, in between all these living gods making decisions about humanity as a whole for the greater good, the books shows us little moments of good amid the bad. [...] Alan Moore, king of the grimdark, very deliberately shows us that basic human kindness is alive and well, and more importantly that these godlike superheroes are failing to see it. And then ''Watchmen'' gets popular and suddenly DC's Grimdark City because all these writers missed the point. They though they were emulating ''Watchmen'', but Alan Moore didn't write ''Watchmen'' as a self-indulgent angst fest on the failure of the human condition. It was an examination of the flaws in superheroism as seen through the lens of realism of ordinary humanity. But instead, we gets angsty superheroes completely failing to remember why they superhero at all."''

->''"As stated, it was the 90s when this comic was written. Creator/AlanMoore and Creator/FrankMiller's darker, grittier comics were already huge in America. Everyone was more inclined to damn [[TheManIsStickingItToTheMan The Man]] and less inclined to salute him, and so {{Superman}}'s principles of [[ForGreatJustice justice and truth and whatnot]] were looking more and more old fashioned every day... The creators felt that Superman's moral, by-the-books boyscout routine was getting a little hokey, so they went ahead and violated everything that Superman stood for by having him grow a wicked beard, go shithouse-crazy on a couple of Hitlers and burn himself alive, and it was still one of the worst comics of all time."''
-->-- '''Website/{{Cracked}}''' on ''SupermanAtEarthsEnd''

->''These '[[ARealManIsAKiller no-nonsense]]' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of [[TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks jet powered apes and time travel]]."

''[[RobLiefeld Pointy elbows]] and [[CyberpunkWithAChanceOfRain lots of lightning!]]''\\