History Quotes / BlackAndGrayMorality

->What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so [[DesignatedVillain you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy."]] So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. [[DirtyCoward You just know how to hide, how to lie.]] Me, I don't have that problem. Me, [[AtLeastIAdmitIt I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.]] So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!
-->-- '''Tony Montana''', ''Film/{{Scarface 1983}}''

->'''Cigarette Smoking Man:''' Look at me. [[TheMasqueradeWillKillYourDatingLife No wife, no family.]] Some "power." I’m in the game because I believe what I’m doing is right.\\

->I doubt that [=DS9=] would be allowed to be quite so forthright if it were playing now... It's very clear here that 'sabotage' and 'terrorism' are methods, not ideologies, and we see saboteurs and terrorists on both sides of the conflict. [=DS9=] is honest enough to treat its characters as real people, not cardboard 'good guys' or 'bad guys.' For instance, Kira is a terrorist, not a 'freedom fighter,' regardless of the fact that we like her, sympathize with her, and are rooting for her to succeed... although it's not always clear that she's in the right. Similarly, even though the Dominion's middlemen, the Vorta, are currently enemies of the Federation, they're given quite a complex presentation, often being shown as quite reasonable people who happen to have different objectives than the Federation; these are not 'bad guys' whom we can blindly hate. Taking this approach means that [=DS9=] treats the issues in a meaningful and thoughtful way, rightfully rejecting the idea that there are easy, clear-cut answers to complex real-world conflicts. You know that ''Star Trek'' has come a long way when [=DS9=] can (even subtly) raise the question of whether Dominion occupation is really so much worse than Federation assimilation.

-->-- '''[[SuperSoldier Space Marine]] [[PsychicPowers Librarian]]''', ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}: DawnOfWar''

[[folder:Music]]

->''"Shadow and shade mix together at dawn\\
But by the time you catch them simplicity's gone."''
-->--"Hero", '''David Crosby'''

->How many people had I already killed? There were those six that I knew about for sure. Close enough to blow their last breath in my face. But this time, it was an American and an officer. That wasn't supposed to make any difference to me, but it did. Shit... charging a man with murder in this place was like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500.
-->--'''Willard''', ''Film/ApocalypseNow''

[[/folder]]

-->--'''Michael''', Series/BurnNotice'' ("Broken Rules")

And I'm going, "Man, there's gotta be a better game than that. There's gotta be a better ''story'' than that." I don't think I have anything particularly against boss monsters. BUt I don't really have much of an interest in them.

[[/folder:Comic Books]]

!!!Fiction

->''"Shadow and shade mix together at dawn\\
But by the time you catch them simplicity's gone."''
-->-- '''David Crosby''', "Hero"

-->--''Series/BurnNotice'', "Broken Rules"

->Vladimir was one of those old-time bad guys with honor and morals, which made him almost one of the good guys. None of us was a saint.
-->-- '''Max Payne''', ''VideoGame/MaxPayne''

->'''Cigarette Smoking Man:''' Look at me. [[TheMasqueradeWillKillYourDatingLife No wife, no family.]] Some "power." I’m in the game because I believe what I’m doing is right.\\
'''Mulder:''' Right? Who are you to decide what’s right?\\
'''Cigarette Smoking Man''': Who are ''you?''
-->--''Series/TheXFiles'', "One Breath"

->'''Michael Sullivan:''' He murdered Annie and Peter!\\
'''John Rooney:''' There are only murderers in this room! Michael! Open your eyes! This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee - none of us will see heaven.\\
'''Michael Sullivan:''' Michael could.\\
'''John Rooney:''' Then do everything that you can to see that that happens.
-->-- ''Film/RoadToPerdition''

->'''Phyllis:''' We're both rotten.\\
'''Walter Neff:''' Only you're a little more rotten.
-->-- ''DoubleIndemnity''

->I think her bad guys are badder than my bad guys.
-->-- '''Echo''', ''Series/{{Dollhouse}}''

->What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so [[DesignatedVillain you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy."]] So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. [[DirtyCoward You just know how to hide, how to lie.]] Me, I don't have that problem. Me, [[AtLeastIAdmitIt I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.]] So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!
-->-- '''Tony Montana''', ''Film/{{Scarface 1983}}''

->'''Ex-President [[JosefStalin "The Beast"]]:''' My job is to keep the majority of the people in this country alive. That’s it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don’t, I’ve done my job.\\
'''President [[TheCaligula Garry "The Smiler" Callahan]]:''' I wanted to be the President so I could fuck with people!
-->-- '''''{{Transmetropolitan}}'''''

->When will you fools learn that there are no battles fought by heroes?
-->-- '''Talpa''', ''RoninWarriors''

->That woman deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die... But then again, so does she. So I guess we'll just have to see, won't we?
-->-- '''Budd''', ''Film/KillBill''

->'''[[TheCape Legend]]:''' So where do you stand, then? Where do you see yourself in terms of the sliding scale of good and evil, heroes and villains?\\
'''[[VillainProtagonist Skitter]]:''' All of the above? None of the above? Does it matter? Some of us wear the villain label with pride, because they want to rebel against the norms, because it’s a harder, more rewarding road to travel, or because being a ‘hero’ often means so very little. But few people really want to see themselves as being bad or evil, whatever label they wear.
-->--''Literature/{{Worm}}'', [[http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2012/08/18/snare-13-7/ Snare 13.7]]

!!!RealLife
->Vice is punished, but virtue is not rewarded.
-->-- '''Creator/GeorgeOrwell'''

->Life -- the way it really is -- is a battle not between good and bad, but between bad and worse.
-->-- '''Joseph Brodsky'''

->Goodness has only once found a perfect incarnation in a human body and never will again, but evil can always find a home there. Human nature is not black and white but black and grey.
-->-- '''Graham Greene'''

->Ah, finally, the ultimate showdown between vaguely-evil and somewhat-ambiguous!
-->-- '''Tom Servo''', ''MysteryScienceTheater3000'': ''{{Escape 2000}}''

->''"In a war there are many moments for compassion and tender action. There are many moments for ruthless action - what is often called ruthless - what may in many circumstances be only clarity, seeing clearly what there is to be done and doing it, directly, quickly, awake, looking at it."''

->''"Being a spy, you have to get comfortable with the idea of people doing bad things for good reasons; doing ''good'' things for ''bad'' reasons. You do the best you can."''

->''"On Earth, [[SugarBowl there is no poverty, no crime, no war.]] You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the Demilitarized Zone, all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints; just people. Angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not!"''

->''"If the only thing they are doing is torching Drexler's heroin, we shouldn't be trying to kill them, we should be sending them ''a fruit basket!''"''

->''"Vladimir was one of those old-time bad guys with honor and morals, which made him almost one of the good guys. None of us was a saint."''

->''"Ah, finally, the ultimate showdown between vaguely-evil and somewhat-ambiguous!"''
-->-- '''Tom Servo''', ''MysteryScienceTheater3000'': ''{{Escape 2000}}''

->'''Cigarette Smoking Man:''' Look at me. [[TheMasqueradeWillKillYourDatingLife No wife, no family.]] Some "power." I’m in the game because I believe what I’m doing is right.
->'''Mulder:''' Right? Who are you to decide what’s right?
->'''Cigarette Smoking Man''': Who are ''you?''
-->--'''''Series/TheXFiles''''', "One Breath"

->'''Michael Sullivan:''' He murdered Annie and Peter!
->'''John Rooney:''' There are only murderers in this room! Michael! Open your eyes! This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee - none of us will see heaven.
->'''Michael Sullivan:''' Michael could.
->'''John Rooney:''' Then do everything that you can to see that that happens.

->'''Phyllis:''' We're both rotten.
->'''Walter Neff:''' Only you're a little more rotten.

->''"What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so [[DesignatedVillain you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy."]] So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. [[DirtyCoward You just know how to hide, how to lie.]] Me, I don't have that problem. Me, [[AtLeastIAdmitIt I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.]] So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!"''

->'''Ex-President [[JosefStalin "The Beast"]]:''' My job is to keep the majority of the people in this country alive. That’s it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don’t, I’ve done my job.
->'''President [[TheCaligula Garry "The Smiler" Callahan]]:''' I wanted to be the President so I could fuck with people!

->''"When will you fools learn that there are no battles fought by heroes?"''

->'''[[TheCape Legend]]:''' So where do you stand, then? Where do you see yourself in terms of the sliding scale of good and evil, heroes and villains?
->'''[[VillainProtagonist Skitter]]:''' All of the above? None of the above? Does it matter? Some of us wear the villain label with pride, because they want to rebel against the norms, because it’s a harder, more rewarding road to travel, or because being a ‘hero’ often means so very little. But few people really want to see themselves as being bad or evil, whatever label they wear.

->''Vice is punished, but virtue is not rewarded.''

->''"Life -- the way it really is -- is a battle not between good and bad, but between bad and worse."''

->''"Goodness has only once found a perfect incarnation in a human body and never will again, but evil can always find a home there. Human nature is not black and white but black and grey."''

->''"I doubt that [=DS9=] would be allowed to be quite so forthright if it were playing now... It's very clear here that 'sabotage' and 'terrorism' are methods, not ideologies, and we see saboteurs and terrorists on both sides of the conflict. [=DS9=] is honest enough to treat its characters as real people, not cardboard 'good guys' or 'bad guys.' For instance, Kira is a terrorist, not a 'freedom fighter,' regardless of the fact that we like her, sympathize with her, and are rooting for her to succeed... although it's not always clear that she's in the right. Similarly, even though the Dominion's middlemen, the Vorta, are currently enemies of the Federation, they're given quite a complex presentation, often being shown as quite reasonable people who happen to have different objectives than the Federation; these are not 'bad guys' whom we can blindly hate. Taking this approach means that [=DS9=] treats the issues in a meaningful and thoughtful way, rightfully rejecting the idea that there are easy, clear-cut answers to complex real-world conflicts. You know that ''Star Trek'' has come a long way when [=DS9=] can (even subtly) raise the question of whether Dominion occupation is really so much worse than Federation assimilation."''

->''"I doubt that [=DS9=] would be allowed to be quite so forthright if it were playing now... It's very clear here that "sabotage" and "terrorism" are methods, not ideologies, and we see saboteurs and terrorists on both sides of the conflict. DS9 is honest enough to treat its characters as real people, not cardboard 'good guys' or 'bad guys.' For instance, Kira is a terrorist, not a 'freedom fighter,' regardless of the fact that we like her, sympathize with her, and are rooting for her to succeed... although it's not always clear that she's in the right. Similarly, even though the Dominion's middlemen, the Vorta, are currently enemies of the Federation, they're given quite a complex presentation, often being shown as quite reasonable people who happen to have different objectives than the Federation; these are not 'bad guys' whom we can blindly hate. Taking this approach means that [=DS9=] treats the issues in a meaningful and thoughtful way, rightfully rejecting the idea that there are easy, clear-cut answers to complex real-world conflicts. You know that ''Star Trek'' has come a long way when [=DS9=] can (even subtly) raise the question of whether Dominion occupation is really so much worse than Federation assimilation."''

->''"I doubt that [=DS9=] would be allowed to be quite so forthright if it were playing now... It's very clear here that "sabotage" and "terrorism" are methods, not ideologies, and we see saboteurs and terrorists on both sides of the conflict. DS9 is honest enough to treat its characters as real people, not cardboard "good guys" or "bad guys." For instance, Kira is a terrorist, not a "freedom fighter," regardless of the fact that we like her, sympathize with her, and are rooting for her to succeed... although it's not always clear that she's in the right. Similarly, even though the Dominion's middlemen, the Vorta, are currently enemies of the Federation, they're given quite a complex presentation, often being shown as quite reasonable people who happen to have different objectives than the Federation; these are not "bad guys" whom we can blindly hate. Taking this approach means that [=DS9=] treats the issues in a meaningful and thoughtful way, rightfully rejecting the idea that there are easy, clear-cut answers to complex real-world conflicts."''

->''"I doubt that [=DS9=] would be allowed to be quite so forthright if it were playing now... It's very clear here that "sabotage" and "terrorism" are methods, not ideologies, and we see saboteurs and terrorists on both sides of the conflict. DS9 is honest enough to treat its characters as real people, not cardboard "good guys" or "bad guys." For instance, Kira is a terrorist, not a "freedom fighter," regardless of the fact that we like her, sympathize with her, and are rooting for her to succeed... although it's not always clear that she's in the right. Similarly, even though the Dominion's middlemen, the Vorta, are currently enemies of the Federation, they're given quite a complex presentation, often being shown as quite reasonable people who happen to have different objectives than the Federation; these are not "bad guys" whom we can blindly hate. Taking this approach means that DS9 treats the issues in a meaningful and thoughtful way, rightfully rejecting the idea that there are easy, clear-cut answers to complex real-world conflicts. You know that Star Trek has come a long way when DS9 can (even subtly) raise the question of whether Dominion occupation is really so much worse than Federation assimilation."''

->Sometimes life seems so complicated. Nothing is truly good or truly evil. Everything seems to be a shade of grey. And then you spend some time with a man like Dukat, and you realize that there is such a thing as truly evil.
-->-- '''Sisko''', ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''

->''"Being a spy, you have to get comfortable with the idea of people doing bad things for good reasons; doing ''good'' things for ''bad'' reasons. You do the best you can.

->''"If the only thing they are doing is torching Drexler's heroin we shouldn't be trying to kill them, we should be sending them ''a fruit basket!''"''

->'''Cigarette Smoking Man:''' Look at me. No wife, no family. Some "power." I’m in the game because I believe what I’m doing is right.

->''Vice is punished, but virtue is not rewarded.''
-->-- '''Creator/GeorgeOrwell'''

----
->'''Aaron Pittman:''' "If the only thing they are doing is torching Drexler's heroin we shouldn't be trying to kill them, we should be sending them a fruit basket!"

->''Life -- the way it really is -- is a battle not between good and bad, but between bad and worse.''
-->-- '''Joseph Brodsky'''

->Vladimir was one of those old-time bad guys with honor and morals, which made him almost one of the good guys. None of us was a saint.

->Ah, finally, the ultimate showdown between vaguely-evil and somewhat ambiguous!

->Goodness has only once found a perfect incarnation in a human body and never will again, but evil can always find a home there. Human nature is not black and white but black and grey.
-->-- '''Graham Greene'''

->... the hero, who is intended to be a sympathetic and perhaps even noble character, is described as [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown stamping on somebody's face]], and then, having crushed the man's mouth in, grinding his heel round and round in it. Even when physical incidents of this kind are not occurring, the mental atmosphere of these books is always the same... If ultimately one sides with the police against the gangsters, it is merely because they are better organized and more powerful, because, in fact, the law is a bigger racket than crime.
-->-- '''Creator/GeorgeOrwell''', "Raffles and Miss Blandish"

->Shadow and shade mix together at dawn
->But by the time you catch them simplicity's gone.
->So we sort through the pieces, my friends and I.
->Searching through the darkness to find the breaks in the sky.
->...
->The villain goes to jail while the hero goes free.
->I wish it were that simple for me.
-->-- '''David Crosby''', "Hero"

-->-- ''{{Transmetropolitan}}''

->It is the logic of our times,\\
No subject for immortal verse -\\
That we who lived by honest dreams\\
Defend the bad against the worse.
-->-- Poet and UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Propagandist '''C. Day Lewis''', "Where are the War Poets?"

->When will you fools learn that there are no battles fought by heroes?

->'''[[VillainProtagonist Skitter]]:''' All of the above? None of the above? Does it matter? Some of us wear the villain label with pride, because they want to rebel against the norms, because it’s a harder, more rewarding road to travel, or because being a ‘hero’ often means so very little. But few people really want to see themselves as being bad or evil, whatever label they wear. I’ve done things I regret, I’ve done things I’m proud of, and I’ve walked the roads in between. The sliding scale is a fantasy. There’s no simple answers.
->'''Legend:''' There can be. [[YouCouldHaveUsedYourPowersForGood You could do what’s right.]]
->'''Skitter:''' Speak for yourself. You want to hide here while [[NobleDemon my group]] and [[ThoseWackyNazis Hookwolf]] deal with the brunt of the [[TheDreaded Nine]]’s attention. [[BadGuysDoTheDirtyWork Just like you did with the ABB.]]
->'''Legend:''' That happened under [[TheCowl Armsmaster]]’s leadership. You can’t blame us for being [[PragmaticHero intelligent]] about how we go about this.
->'''Skitter:''' I can blame you for being cowards. I’m going. If you want to talk about morality, start by talking to [[FallenHero Armsmaster]].

->None of us was a saint.

->What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so [[DesignatedVillain you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy."]] So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. [[DirtyCoward You just know how to hide, how to lie.]] Me, I don't have that problem. Me, [[AtLeastIAdmitIt I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.]] So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!
-->-- '''Tony Montana''', ''{{Scarface}}''

->'''Aaron Pittman:''' "If the only thing they are doing is [[spoiler: torching Drexler's heroin]] we shouldn't be trying to kill them, we should be sending them a fruit basket!"
-->--''Series/{{Revolution}}'', "[[Recap/RevolutionS1E6SexAndDrugs Sex and Drugs]]", Aaron is trying to communicate that helping a drug lord in killing off the patriarch of a family of Irish ex-cops he has a personal grudge with is a bad idea.

-->-- Poet and WorldWarII Propagandist '''C. Day Lewis''', "Where are the War Poets?"