History Literature / TheNorthernCaves

-->''Councillor 14 "LOCAL CHIASTS ADVISE UNRAVEL AND REBRAID W TO PRIMAL STATE"''\\
''W "i will be remade before the birth of my angel"''\\
''Councillor 2 "REBRAID W PRECEDE ANGEL"''

* SawStarWarsTwentySevenTimes: The Cafe is the fandom of a CultClassic, so unsurprisingly many of the Cafe users allude to having reread the Chesscourt books many times.

* BenevolentMageRuler: ImpliedTrope. The protagonists are "heirs of the Manor" -- according to the podcasters, "aristocrats with a magical lineage." Marsh at one point mentions the series contains people "finding out their parents were ancient gods." There seems to be some combination of social power and magical power going on, from which the characters' crushing sense of duty springs.

-->'''1988 interviewer:''' …the sort of young readers who, every year, discover the charms of ''A Thornbush Tale''?
-->'''Podcaster:''' So this fantasy series started out with a book called A Thornbush Tale -- which was a really very charming children's book, kind of a classic in its own right.

* GrowingWithTheAudience: Zigzagging. The first book is unambiguously ChildrensLiterature. The later books are not, but it's not exactly clear if they're for adults, either.

* LaterInstallmentWeirdness: The Chesscourt books begin as fairly standard ChildrensLiterature, that got weirder as it went. Eventually the editor started complaining and [[invoked]][[ExecutiveMeddling requesting Salby tone it down]]. Salby refused. Book #7 got published only grudgingly, #8 and #9 were self-published. The series is a philosophical treaties masquerading as literature. It appears that during the earlier books, Salby understood that in order to masquerade as literature, he had to actually make the books ''moderately like children's literature'' -- something he increasingly disregarded as time went on.

-->'''Paul's narration:''' Salby's worldbuilding is entirely consistent on the level of logic, but has an uneasy relationship with plausibility. When he stipulates something, it remains true forever -- but he feels free to stipulate absolutely anything he wishes. Especially in the later Chesscourt novels, one feels one is only allowed to use rules of inference made legitimate by Salbian fiat, rather than those imported from everyday life.
-->'''Podcaster:''' It had the feel of a large number of interlocking game pieces, but none of the game pieces really came alive as plausible things that might exist, you know? I mean cultures, or institutions, that sort of thing.

* NerdsAreVirgins: DownplayedTrope. Chesscourt fans ''do'' date. Paul was originally introduced to Chesscourt by his girlfriend-at-the-time. But it ''is'' fair to say that none of them are spending lots of time in this online forum because they have thriving social lives.

* ScatterbrainedSenior: Zigzagging. ''The Northern Caves'' is Salby's final unpublished manuscript that [[invoked]][[DiedDuringProduction he was working on at the time of his death]] at the age of about 76. Just ''how'' clear-headed he was at this point is a matter of debate amongst the fans. Sentiments include:

* SuicideNotMurder: Zigzagging. [[spoiler:Salby claimed William's death was an accident. His niece Elena accused him of murder. William actually committed suicide, with Salby's endorsement, inspired in part by concepts he learned from Salby. So while Salby didn't ''exactly'' murder him, he absolutely had a hand in his death.]]

* BenevolentMageRuler: ImpliedTrope. The protagonists are "heirs of the Manor" -- according to the podcasters, "aristocrats with a magical lineage". Marsh at one point mentions the series contains people "finding out their parents were ancient gods." There seems to be some combination of social power and magical power going on, from which the characters' crushing sense of duty springs.
* BlackAndWhiteMorality: In Chesscourt, the sides of good and evil are very clearly defined. The "correct" actions the protagonists must take are directly laid out for them, and the difficulty is more often in carrying out said actions than in having to make difficult or morally ambiguous decisions. Considering the prominent ChessMotifs, it's likely a case of ''literal'' black-and-white morality. This kind of thinking is a prominent aspect of Salby's personal philosophy, to the extent that he is professionally diagnosed with "an obsessive fixation on moral concerns".

* ImaginedInnuendo: One passage seems to be describing a sexual seduction, but Aaron qualifies this by saying, "it's not clear to me whether I'm merely reading sexual connotations into strange phrase".

* AllLowercaseLetters: Jenny's forum posts are all lowercase, except for words all in caps for emphasis. Her fanfic, by contrast, is capitalized conventionally.

-->'''Marsh:''' Watch out, he's going to get you next. And then ''explain'' how he did it. With ''bold fonts''.

* FunnyBackgroundEvent: One Cafe user, Avery Lodestone, has a signature which reads "Maintainer of the Anti-Pokémon Haiku Archive (contributions welcome)".
* {{Gayngst}}: It's clear that Aaron is emotionally a mess, and he uses his quest of conquering TNC as a coping mechanism. It's {{Implied|Trope}} his homosexuality contributes to his emotional baggage. Blink and you'll miss it, but when Aaron and Paul are in the upstairs bathroom together and Aaron is having an emotional breakdown, he's talking about TNC, death, and fatalism -- but in the mix there's also single random comment which makes it sounds like he came from a homophobic, Evangelical family.

-->'''Paul's narration:''' we are not freaks, that we're ''people just like you'', with 9-5 jobs (in… some cases), significant others (on occasion)

* SawStarWarsTwentySevenTimes: Unsurprisingly, many of the Cafe users allude to having reread the Chesscourt books many times.

-->'''Podcaster:''' So this fantasy series started out with a book called A Thornbush Tale [=--=] which was a really very charming children's book, kind of a classic in its own right.

-->'''Paul's narration:''' In some ways, it is just the logic of ''A Thornbush Tale'' scaled up [=--=] but the quantitative can reach the qualitative if dialed up far enough.

-->'''Paul's narration:''' It isn't just that no romance occurs, which would not be too unusual in a series of this kind. It's that it feels like it never could have occurred. The characters, by virtue of being the heirs of the Manor, are afflicted with a kind of terrible ''noblesse oblige'' whose full weight emerges steadily across the course of nine whole books. There is no time to stop and enjoy what are, for the rest of us, the ordinary pleasures of life [=--=] everywhere, Weightier Things beckon, and they only beckon louder and louder with time.

-->'''Paul's narration:''' Salby's worldbuilding is entirely consistent on the level of logic, but has an uneasy relationship with plausibility. When he stipulates something, it remains true forever [=--=] but he feels free to stipulate absolutely anything he wishes. Especially in the later Chesscourt novels, one feels one is only allowed to use rules of inference made legitimate by Salbian fiat, rather than those imported from everyday life.

[[indent:20:This adult/kid thing resulted in two main demographics who end up liking the books[=:=]]]

[[indent:20:Salby actually ''did'' have a TargetAudience[=:=] people who shared -- or were at least amenable to -- the philosophy of Mundum. The mild version of this would be fans like Paul who came to like the books in adulthood liked them seemingly because they were already a little like Salby. The extreme version would be William Chan.]]

''[[https://archiveofourown.org/works/3659997 The Northern Caves]]'' is a 2015 WebOriginalFiction novel written by nostalgebraist (previously the author of ''{{WebOriginal/Floornight}}''). Set in the [[TurnOfTheMillennium early 2000s]], it follows a group of fans on an online forum dedicated to the [[ShowWithinAShow fictional]] CultClassic Chesscourt fantasy book series by Leonard Salby.

:: This adult/kid thing resulted in two main demographics who end up liking the books[=:=]

:: Salby actually ''did'' have a TargetAudience[=:=] people who shared -- or were at least amenable to -- the philosophy of Mundum. The mild version of this would be fans like Paul who came to like the books in adulthood liked them seemingly because they were already a little like Salby. The extreme version would be William Chan.

* {{Doorstopper}}: As the Chesscourt series goes on, the books get [[LaterInstallmentWeirdness weirder]] and longer. The nine books lengths are: 166 pages, 255 pages, 242 pages, 271 pages, 345 pages, 435 pages, 676 pages, 775 pages, 844 pages. It caps off with ''The Northern Caves'', which is ''3,642 pages'' -- it's unclear if it was intended to be published in its present state, but the upon seeing the manuscript, the Spelunkers "gawk at the thick stack of typed pages."

* [[invoked]]FranchiseOriginalSin: Paul describes the latter books as still having the same bones as the first book, just taken to their LogicalExtreme. It could also be considered 9 books worth of SerialEscalation. At some point "the matrix is beginning to strain under its own weight."

:: Salby actually ''did'' have a TargetAudience[=:=] people who shared -- or were at least amenable to -- the philosophy of Mundum. The mild version of this would be fans like Paul who came to like the books in adulthood liked them seemingly because they were already a little like Salby. The extreme version would be Willam Chan.

* {{Gayngst}}: It's clear that Aaron is emotionally a mess, and he uses his quest of conquering TNC as a coping mechanism. It's {{Implied|Trope}} his homosexuality contributes to his emotional baggage. Blink and you'll miss it, but when Aaron and Paul are in the upstairs bathroom together and Aaron is having an emotional breakdown, he's talking about TNC, death, and fatalism -- but in the mix there's also single random comment which makes it sounds like he came from a homophobic, religious family.

** Sanguine: Marsh aka [=metamarsh=], an easygoing stoner telling people [[MellowFellow "it's not that deep dude"]].

** Phlegmatic: Jenny aka [=jenni_fur=], a calm, friendly fanfic writer.

:: Salby actually ''did'' have a TargetAudience[=:=] people who shared -- or were at least amenable to -- the philosophy of Mundum. The mild version of this would be fans like Paul who came to like the books in adulthood liked them seemingly because they were already a little like Salby. The extreme version would be Willam Chan. Salby wrote the books with this audience in mind, intentionally trying to drive away anyone else.

* {{Doorstopper}}: As the Chesscourt series goes on, in addition to LaterInstallmentWeirdness, the books also get longer and longer. The nine books lengths are: 166 pages, 255 pages, 242 pages, 271 pages, 345 pages, 435 pages, 676 pages, 775 pages, 844 pages. It caps off with ''The Northern Caves'', which is ''3,642 pages'' -- it's unclear if it was intended to be published in its present state, but the upon seeing the manuscript, the Spelunkers "gawk at the thick stack of typed pages."

!!The Chesscourt books are said to provide examples of:

* [[invoked]]{{Anvilicious}}: In-universe. Chesscourt is not subtle, and reviews make a point to note that it's the product of a man obsessed with fiendishly detail-oriented, duty-driven plots, and largely disinterested in his characters and worldbuilding. It's easy to see where his interests laid, or what the themes were. But Salby's ''anvil'' -- obeying Mundum -- is off the wall enough that it can be hard to identify that it ''is'' an anvil without exterior knowledge of his philosophy. Once you know, though, it becomes very apparent why the series is the way it is.

* FixFic: In-universe, and not in the usual plot-based "fix the story" way, but in a more thematic sense. Paul describes Chesscourt fanfic as overwhelmingly -- even defiantly -- ''anti-Salbian'' in tone.

* KissingCousins: In-universe, Paul ships cousins Sally and Charles.

* InNameOnly: What Aaron dubs the "Tales" section are segments with decernable stories in them -- weird confusing jumbled stories, but stories after some fashion. They involve the names of Chesscourt characters but they don't act like their Chesscourt counterparts. They're not just OutOfCharacter, but {{Out of Genre|Experience}} as well, and really seem to have no relation to Chesscourt.
-->'''[=Errant KnightsMove=]:'''' It stars Tom and Sally in a setting completely unrelated to Chesscourt. They seem to be husband and wife, rather than siblings, and have an extended (~80 page) conversation about something called "the Lorrum" (!), which they blame for ruining their marriage.