History JerkassHasAPoint / GameOfThrones

* The Spice King is rude and condescending, but when Daenerys asks for ships to get to Westeros he raises some very good points: namely, that she has no real strategy for retaking Westeros, just a belief that everyone will flock to her as the rightful queen and that her massive entitlement issues are not going to make people agreeable to doing her any favours. Later on, he is proven right about the Dragons’ ability to bring misery and destruction when one of Daenerys’s dragons is killed by the Night King and then used to break down the Wall and bring a ZombieApocalypse while another [[spoiler:laid waste to King’s Landing, killing hundreds of innocent people]].

** When Tyrion disapproves of [[spoiler:the Red Wedding]], Tywin asks him why it is more noble to kill thousands in battle than a dozen at dinner. Even acknowledging the thousands of soldiers who died as well, Tyrion really cannot dispute his father, having himself [[WhatMeasureIsAMook killed thousands]] [[NotSoDifferent of defenseless, ship-bound men]] in a [[GreekFire wildfire]] explosion less than a year past.

GameOfThrones/TropesA ([[AdaptationalAttractiveness/GameOfThrones Adaptational Attractiveness]], [[AdaptationalBadass/GameOfThrones Adaptational Badass]], [[AdaptationalHeroism/GameOfThrones Adaptational Heroism]], [[AdaptationalModesty/GameOfThrones Adaptational Modesty]], [[AdaptationalVillainy/GameOfThrones Adaptational Villainy]], [[AdaptationalWimp/GameOfThrones Adaptational Wimp]], [[AdaptationDistillation/GameOfThrones Adaptation Distillation]], [[AdaptationDyeJob/GameOfThrones Adaptation Dye-Job]], [[AdaptationExpansion/GameOfThrones Adaptation Expansion]], [[AdaptationExplanationExtrication/GameOfThrones Adaptation Explanation Extrication]], [[AdaptationInducedPlotHole/GameOfThrones Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole]], [[AdaptationNameChange/GameOfThrones Adaptation Name Change]], [[AdaptationPersonalityChange/GameOfThrones Adaptation Personality Change]], [[AdaptationRelationshipOverhaul/GameOfThrones Adaptation Relationship Overhaul]], [[AdaptedOut/GameOfThrones Adapted Out]], [[AgeLift/GameOfThrones Age Lift]], [[AnimalMotifs/GameOfThrones Animal Motifs]], [[AscendedExtra/GameOfThrones Ascended Extra]], [[AssholeVictim/GameOfThrones Asshole Victim]], [[AsYouKnow/GameOfThrones As You Know]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesB ([[BadassBoast/GameOfThrones Badass Boast]], [[BaitAndSwitch/GameOfThrones Bait-and-Switch]], [[BullyingADragon/GameOfThrones Bullying a Dragon]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesCToD ([[CallBack/GameOfThrones Call-Back]], [[CanonForeigner/GameOfThrones Canon Foreigner]], [[CompositeCharacter/GameOfThrones Composite Character]], [[CruelAndUnusualDeath/GameOfThrones Cruel and Unusual Death]], [[DeathByAdaptation/GameOfThrones Death by Adaptation]], [[DemotedToExtra/GameOfThrones Demoted to Extra]], [[DueToTheDead/GameOfThrones Due to the Dead]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesEToF ([[EstablishingCharacterMoment/GameOfThrones Establishing Character Moment]], [[FamousLastWords/GameOfThrones Famous Last Words]], [[FanDisservice/GameOfThrones Fan Disservice]], [[FantasyCounterpartCulture/GameOfThrones Fantasy Counterpart Culture]], [[Foil/GameOfThrones Foil]], [[Foreshadowing/GameOfThrones Foreshadowing]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesGToK ([[HateSink/GameOfThrones Hate Sink]], '''Jerkass Has a Point''') | GameOfThrones/TropesLToO ([[Leitmotif/GameOfThrones Leitmotif]], [[OhCrap/GameOfThrones Oh, Crap!]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesPToS ([[PragmaticAdaptation/GameOfThrones Pragmatic Adaptation]], [[RealityEnsues/GameOfThrones Reality Ensues]]) | GameOfThrones/TropesTToZ ([[WhamEpisode/GameOfThrones Wham Episode]])]]]]-]

* Ser Alliser Thorne is a brutal, petty and sadistic taskmaster who gives his recruits a TrainingFromHell. When Jon starts protecting Samwell Tarley from Alliser's torments, however, Alliser correctly argues that men of the Night's Watch need to be hard to survive and that the other recruits' lives will depend on their brothers protecting them.

** When Catelyn tries to insult him by calling him 'Kingslayer', notorious [[TheOathbreaker oathbreaker]] Jaime argues that the king in question was [[TheCaligula an insane monster]] and the [[ConflictingLoyalty numerous and contradictory vows]] knights swear make everyone an oathbreaker eventually. For instance, what if you have sworn to protect the king and defend the innocent, but the king massacres the innocent? Then Jaime points out that Ned Stark, while honourable, was not without his flaws either and Catelyn herself hardly fulfills the ideals of "Family, Duty, Honor" either, since she was never able to love Jon Snow, her husband's illegitimate son, and an innocent child, and resented him. [[spoiler:Of course, this loses its effect once it turned out that Ned never broke his vows (at least as far as cheating on his wife goes- Jon's still upset about having been lied to), but neither of them knows this.]]

** Being motivated by jealousy does not make Cersei's assessment of Margaery as a manipulative and two-faced any less true.

* Lampshaded by Podrick after Brienne, having offered to train him in swordfighting, apologizes for her frequent rudeness to him:

* Robett Glover has already lost many men, his brother and his castle in service to Robb Stark, who made some terrible strategic mistakes in his war campaign. It's understandable why he refuses to lend more troops. He even brings up that it's the Boltons and not the Starks that gave him back his castle (and Ramsay would more than likely kill him in a horrific fashion if he found out he'd met with Jon and Sansa).

** Quite possibly other people dismissed it as impractical. Qyburn's ballistas are only effective when used in a surprise ambush against an inexperienced dragon/rider. The historical Targaryen's and their dragons were likely trained in aerial comabt, whereas Daenerys and her dragons are making it up as they go.
** * Qyburn, who was training to be a Maester until he was expelled from the Citadel for his "perversions", also brings up a very good point that his experiments on people have made him the most competent Doctor in the Seven Kingdoms, as the Maesters in the Citadel are pedantically obsessed doing everything as they've always done things, thus leaving no room for improvement on outdated, inefficient medical treatments. Sure, Qyburn's methods are extremely unethical (including [[spoiler:reanimating Gregor Clegane into a horrifying GiantMook who unthinkingly obeys an increasingly-crazy Cersei]]), but you can't deny the man gets results.

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion against Ser Gregor is harsh, and certainly selfish, but it makes sense. When Tyrion tries to goad him by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies: [[BluntYes Yes. He is.]] He's massive, strong, and quick to boot; only a fool wouldn't be afraid. He certainly ''could'' fight him, but why put his life on the line when he's being offered a fortune ''not'' to? The only real reason to fight would be out of friendship for Tyrion, but despite the growing bond between them, he never lost sight of the fact that their relationship was at heart a ''business'' deal. Certainly Tyrion never risked his life for Bronn. He's a mercenary who fights for gold, not loyalty, and Tyrion can't complain if someone else beats his price. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bears no ill will against him.

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion against Ser Gregor is harsh, and certainly selfish, but it makes sense. When Tyrion tries to goad him by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies: [[BluntYes Yes. He is.]] He's massive, strong, and quick to boot; only a fool wouldn't be afraid. He certainly ''could'' fight him, but why put his life on the line when he's being offered a fortune ''not'' to? The only real reason to fight would be out of friendship for Tyrion, but despite the growing bond between them he never lost sight of the fact that their relationship was at heart a ''business'' deal. Certainly Tyrion never risked his life for Bronn. He's a mercenary who fights for gold, not loyalty, and Tyrion can't complain if someone else beats his price. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bears no ill will against him.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen in centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey genuinely ''is'' a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental instability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (regardless of the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

* Robert's plot to kill Daenerys is definitely very underhanded and fueled by his petty hatred of her entire family and fear, but Pycelle's point that a Dothraki invasion would also result in thousands of innocent deaths is quite persuasive. As Robert later pointed out to Cersei, if the Dothraki chose to invade Westeros with the Targaryens, the results would be catastrophic, both tactically and politically. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Even if the only reason they invade in the first place is because of the attempted assassination.]] It later becomes ProperlyParanoid, as [[spoiler: Daenerys managed to hatch something more dangerous than Drogo and his khalasar combined. And later on, Daenerys is the closest thing to TheUsurper to the Baratheon-Lannister regime. When she eventually comes to Westeros, several kingdoms ally with her to put her on the throne, which involves the Dothraki stampeding an army.]] [[spoiler: And later Robert Baratheon was proven completely right about Daenerys inheriting the Targaryen madness, as she became a much worse ruler than her father, as Aerys burning down King's Landing was still a last-ditch measure against Robert's rule, while Daenerys slaughtered most of the city after they surrendered.]]

** When Catelyn tries to insult him by calling him 'Kingslayer', notorious [[TheOathbreaker oathbreaker]] Jaime argues that the king in question was [[TheCaligula an insane monster]] and the [[ConflictingLoyalty numerous and contradictory vows]] knights swear make everyone an oathbreaker eventually. For instance, what if you have sworn to protect the king and defend the innocent, but the king massacres the innocent? Then Jaime points out that Ned Stark, while honourable, was not without his flaws either and Catelyn herself hardly fulfills the ideals of "Family, Duty, Honor" either, since she was never able to love Jon Snow, her husband's illegitimate son, and an innocent child, and resented him. [[spoiler: Of course, this loses its effect once it turned out that Ned never broke his vows (at least as far as cheating on his wife goes- Jon's still upset about having been lied to), but neither of them knows this.]]

* Drogo's bloodrider Qotho is [[ProperlyParanoid completely right]] about [[spoiler: not trusting Mirri Maz Duur]].
* Speaking of [[spoiler: Mirri Maz Duur]], as cruel as her words are to the woman who loved Khal Drogo and her unborn son Rhaego, and as treacherous as her actions were, she is not ''wrong'' that Khal Drogo was a bloodthirsty barbarian warlord who gleefully partook in RapePillageAndBurn ForTheEvulz and would have raised his son to have the same values. She likewise has got a point that, from the perspective of the teeming multitudes of non-Dothraki in the world, killing a Dothraki chosen one prophesied to unite the barbarians to ravage the entirety of the known world is no evil deed. She also makes a good point that given what Khal Drogo was responsible for doing to her and her community, her wanting vengeance is entirely justified. Finally, although she does not push this point forward in the series herself, she ''did'' warn Daenerys that her BloodMagic ritual was risky and unpredictable (albeit vaguely), so it is not her fault that Daenerys did not get what she wanted.
* The Spice King is rude and condescending, but when Daenerys asks for ships to get to Westeros he raises some very good points: namely, that she has no real strategy for retaking Westeros, just a belief that everyone will flock to her as the rightful queen and that her massive entitlement issues are not going to make people agreeable to doing her any favours. Later on, he is proven right about the Dragons’ ability to bring misery and destruction when one of Daenerys’s dragons is killed by the Night King and then used to break down the Wall and bring a ZombieApocalypse while another [[spoiler: laid waste to King’s Landing, killing hundreds of innocent people]].

* Though more of HypocriteHasAPoint, Littlefinger is not wrong when he stated that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's love brought great ruin to the realm. [[spoiler: Especially after some revelations during Season 7.]]

** When Tyrion disapproves of [[spoiler: the Red Wedding]], Tywin asks him why it is more noble to kill thousands in battle than a dozen at dinner. Even acknowledging the thousands of soldiers who died as well, Tyrion really cannot dispute his father, having himself [[WhatMeasureIsAMook killed thousands]] [[NotSoDifferent of defenseless, ship-bound men]] in a [[GreekFire wildfire]] explosion less than a year past.

** * Qyburn, who was training to be a Maester until he was expelled from the Citadel for his "perversions", also brings up a very good point that his experiments on people have made him the most competent Doctor in the Seven Kingdoms, as the Maesters in the Citadel are pedantically obsessed doing everything as they've always done things, thus leaving no room for improvement on outdated, inefficient medical treatments. Sure, Qyburn's methods are extremely unethical (including [[spoiler: reanimating Gregor Clegane into a horrifying GiantMook who unthinkingly obeys an increasingly-crazy Cersei]]), but you can't deny the man gets results.

* Robert's plot to kill Daenerys is definitely very underhanded and fueled by his petty hatred of her entire family and fear, but Pycelle's point that a Dothraki invasion would also result in thousands of innocent deaths is quite persuasive. As Robert later pointed out to Cersei, if the Dothraki chose to invade Westeros with the Targaryens, the results would be catastrophic. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Even if the only reason they invade in the first place is because of the attempted assassination.]] It later becomes ProperlyParanoid, as [[spoiler: Daenerys managed to hatch something more dangerous than Drogo and his khalasar combined. And later on, Daenerys is the closest thing to TheUsurper to the Baratheon-Lannister regime. When she eventually comes to Westeros, several kingdoms ally with her to put her on the throne, which involves the Dothraki stampeding an army.]] [[spoiler: And later Robert Baratheon was proven completely right about Daenerys inheriting the Targaryen madness, as she became a much worse ruler than her father, as Aerys burning down King's Landing was still a last-ditch measure against Robert's rule, while Daenerys slaughtered most of the city after they surrendered.]]

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen in centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey genuinely ''is'' a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental instability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

** [[TheCaligula Joffrey]] seems to be the only person in Westeros during Season 3 appropriately concerned about the threat of Daenerys and her dragons, mentioning at one point that the prospect of a foreign army, led by a member of the previous ruling dynasty and packing ''three fully-grown dragons'' could be a problem if it reaches Westerosi shores and wants to do something about it, even if she is a less immediate threat than his fellow contenders for the Iron Throne. Tywin dismisses all his concerns out of hand. Come Season 8 Joffrey's concerns are proved completely justified.

*** Tywin acts like Joffrey asking him why he moved the council meetings to his tower is a stupid question, and when Joffrey complains about having to climb all the stairs of the Tower of the Hand to attend a Small Council meeting, Tywin snarkily replies he could arranged to have him carried there. This is the same Tywin who just admitted that he moved the Small Council meetings near his own chambers so that ''he'' wouldn't have to walk anywhere, making him a massive {{Hypocrite}}.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen in centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey genuinely ''is'' a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen in centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' genuinely a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

** [[TheCaligula Joffrey]] seems to be the only person in Westeros during Season 3 appropriately concerned about the threat of Daenerys and her dragons, mentioning at one point that the prospect of a foreign army, led by a member of the previous ruling dynasty and packing ''three fully-grown dragons'' could be a problem if it reaches Westerosi shores and wants to do something about it, even if she is a less immediate threat than his fellow contenders for the Iron Throne. Tywin dismisses all of his concerns out of hand. Come Season 8 Joffrey's concerns are proved completely justified.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen for centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' genuinely a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen for centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' genuinely a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too'' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen for centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' legitimately a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen for centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' legitimately a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

*** Worth pointing out that Joffrey may have a point, but he's Main/RightForTheWrongReasons. His concerns about Daenerys aren't the result of him being prudent and cautious, but due to him being obsessed with power and fascinated by dragons, which are much more interesting to daydream about than boring old normal armies. While Tywin is being a bit ''too' dismissive and complacent regarding dragons (a threat not seen for centuries), his position is nevertheless more objectively reasonable than Joffrey's. For the rest of it, if Tywin treats Joffrey with contempt, it's because Joffrey ''is'' legitimately a contemptible, bratty teenager - king or no. His mental unstability and incompetence had already plunged the Seven Kingdoms into chaos - a mess Tywin was still trying to clean up. While Tywin could probably act with less impudence towards the office of the King (if not the person holding it), he is perfectly right in wanting to keep Joffrey out of politics.

** In Season 1 Joffrey tells Cersei that, as king, he would see to it that the Seven Kingdoms raise a full-time standing army rather than relying on whatever forces the various lords can muster in times of emergency. While he admits he would not give them any choice about this, events after his death show the wisdom of this idea.
** [[TheCaligula Joffrey]] seems to be the only person in Westeros during Season 3 to appreciate the threat of Daenerys and her dragons, mentioning at one point that the prospect of a foreign army, led by a member of the previous ruling dynasty and packing ''three fully-grown dragons as weapons'' could be a bit problematic if it reaches Westerosi shores and wants to do something about them, even if she is a less immediate threat than his fellow contenders for the Iron Throne, while Tywin dismisses them as "curiosities" not worth his attention. Come Season 6 and, indeed, Dany arrives in Westeros and her dragons wreck the Lannister forces.
** In Season 3, he calls Tywin a DirtyCoward who stayed in Casterly Rock until the war was all but decided. He is not wrong, and judging by Tywin's reaction, he clearly struck a nerve.

*** He asks for a report on the Small Council meetings, and Tywin merely replies that he could attend them himself if he wanted. He could, but the fact is that he didn't, and whether it's because of laziness or genuinely being too busy (almost certainly the former), he's still well within his right to ask for a report.
*** Tywin acts like Joffrey asking him why he moved the Council meetings to his Tower is a stupid question, but when Joffrey (who, PuppetKing or not, is still the King) is now hugely inconvenienced in his attempts to attend a meeting, of course, he is going to ask why they were moved.
*** When Joffrey complains about having to climb all the stairs of the Tower of the Hand to attend a Small Council meeting, Tywin just implies that he is lazy. The same Tywin who moved the Small Council meetings to the chamber within his tower so that he would not have to waste his time walking to the original Council Chamber, making everyone else come to him instead. Joffrey ''is'' lazy, but Tywin is also being a huge {{Hypocrite}}.
*** Come Season 8, when [[spoiler: Dany and her dragons burn Kings Landing to the ground, killing Jaime and Cersei in the process, and destroy the Red Keep, it becomes clear that Joffrey is 100% correct about the threat she poses.]]
** Joffrey mocks Jaime's lack of accomplishments and says that it is unlikely that a 40-year old knight that just lost his sword hand will achieve much. KickTheDog for sure, but also great point.
*** Except that Jaime proves a highly competent general who [[spoiler: takes both Riverrun and Highgarden]] with a minimum of losses to his own forces and completely outmaneuvers his brother Tyrion. At his age, his value lies in his experience, not in his personal fighting prowess.

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion against Ser Gregor is harsh, and certainly selfish, but it makes sense. When Tyrion tries to goad him by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies: [[BluntYes Yes. He is.]] He's massive, strong, and quick to book; only a fool wouldn't be afraid. He certainly ''could'' fight him, but why put his life on the line when he's being offered a fortune ''not'' to? The only real reason to fight would be out of friendship for Tyrion, but despite the growing bond between them he never lost sight of the fact that their relationship was at heart a ''business'' deal. Certainly Tyrion never risked his life for Bronn. He's a mercenary who fights for gold, not loyalty, and Tyrion can't complain if someone else beats his price. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bears no ill will against him.

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion is harsh, and certainly selfish. But then, as he points out, their understanding had been clear from the start. Tyrion was happy to hire him away from his former employer and has no grounds for complaint when someone beats his price. The heck of it is, Bronn appears to genuinely ''like'' Tyrion, but their friendship didn't extend to putting their lives on the line, certainly, Tyrion had never risked his life for Bronn. And when Tyrion tries to needle Bronn by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies that [[BluntYes of course he is]]. You'd have to be a fool to want to fight him, and Tyrion can't offer enough to be worth the risk. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bear no ill will toward him.

** Being motivated by jealousy does not make Cersei's assessment of Margaery as a manipulative and two-faced social climber any less true.

* Amoral MadScientist he may be, but Qyburn's assessment of the Maesters as incurious, complacent yes-men that perpetuate Westeros' MedievalStasis is quite accurate. In Season Seven, Samwell learns that the Maesters know about the White Walkers, [[HeadInTheSandManagement but decide to keep their heads down and assume it will pass over like all the other world-ending disasters the realm has faced]], [[BystanderSyndrome without actually doing anything with their knowledge and influence to stop it or warn anyone]]. Not to mention that, apparently, Qyburn is the first person who came up with the idea to use cheap, effective Ballistas against dragons in the ''centuries'' that Westeros has lived under Targaryen rule.

** Later, before the Battle of the Bastards, Ramsay rightly turns down Jon's offer to settle the matter in single combat since while Jon may be a better swordsman than he, Ramsay ''definitely'' has the larger army.

* Ser Alliser Thorne is a brutal, petty and sadistic taskmaster who gives his recruits a TrainingFromHell. When Jon starts protecting Samwell Tarley from Alliser's torments, however, Alliser correctly argues that men of the Night's Watch need to be hard to survive, and that the other recruits' lives will depend on their brothers protecting them.
* Robert's plot to kill Daenerys is definitely very underhanded and fueled by his petty hatred of her entire family and fear, but Pycelle's point that a Dothraki invasion would also result in thousands of innocent deaths is quite persuasive. As Robert later pointed out to Cersei, if the Dothraki chose to invade Westeros with the Targaryens, the results would be catastrophic. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Even if the only reason they invade in the first place is because of the attempted assassination.]] It later becomes ProperlyParanoid, as [[spoiler:Daenerys managed to hatch something more dangerous than Drogo and his khalasar combined. And later on, Daenerys is the closest thing to TheUsurper to the Baratheon-Lannister regime. When she eventually comes to Westeros, several kingdoms ally with her to put her on the throne, which involves the Dothraki stampeding an army.]] [[spoiler: And later Robert Baratheon was proven completely right about Daenerys inheriting the Targaryen madness, as she became a much worse ruler than her father, as Aerys burning down King's Landing was still a last ditch measure against Robert's rule, while Daenerys slaughtered most of the city after they surrendered.]]

** When Catelyn tries to insult him by calling him 'Kingslayer', notorious [[TheOathbreaker oathbreaker]] Jaime argues that the king in question was [[TheCaligula an insane monster]] and the [[ConflictingLoyalty numerous and contradictory vows]] knights swear make everyone an oathbreaker eventually. For instance, what if you have sworn to protect the king and defend the innocent, but the king massacres the innocent? Then Jaime points out that Ned Stark, while honourable, was not without his flaws either and Catelyn herself hardly fulfills the ideals of "Family, Duty, Honor" either, since she was never able to love Jon Snow, her husband's illegitimate son and an innocent child, and resented him. [[spoiler: Of course, this loses its effect once it turned out that Ned never broke his vows (at least as far as cheating on his wife goes- Jon's still upset about having been lied to), but neither of them know this.]]

** When Bronn complains about not having a castle yet to Jaime, Jaime makes several good points about why owning a castle is not all that great. During times of war they are giant targets, and most of the revenue you earn in taxes would go to basic upkeep costs.

-->'''Varys''': [[BrutalHonesty And would again, my lord]]. I was unarmed, unarmoured and surrounded by Lannister swords. When you look at me, do you see a hero?

* The Spice King is rude and condescending, but when Daenerys asks for ships to get to Westeros he raises some very good points: namely, that she has no real strategy for retaking Westeros, just a belief that everyone will flock to her as the rightful queen and that her massive entitlement issues are not going to make people agreeable to doing her any favours. Later on, he is proven right about the Dragons’ ability to bring misery and destruction when one of Daenerys’ dragons is killed by the Night King, used to break down the Wall and bring a ZombieApocalypse while another [[spoiler:laid waste to King’s Landing, killing hundreds of innocent people]].

** While still hiding the fact of BrotherSisterIncest and giving birth to bastards, during her "confession" about adultery, Cersei angrily calls out the High Sparrow on DoubleStandard, reminding him what kind of a man she had been cheating on. Unfortunately for her, her conversation partner is unfazed, as he thinks AllCrimesAreEqual and the king is now dead and out of reach anyway.
* While he is unnecessarily a jerkass about it, Craster ''does'' have a large family to sustain through the years-long winter with the resources the Night's Watch are steadily consuming as his guests. Grenn and Dolorous Edd seem content enough with it and Sam even tries to point this out to Rast, but gets shot down with a FalseDichotomy.

** In Season 1 Joffrey tells Cersei that, as king, h would see to it that the Seven Kingdoms raise a full-time standing army rather than relying on whatever forces the various lords can muster in times of emergency. While he admits he would not give them any choice about this, events after his death show the wisdom of this idea.

*** Tywin acts like Joffrey asking him why he moved the Council meetings to his Tower is a stupid question, but when Joffrey (who, PuppetKing or not, is still the King) is now hugely inconvenienced in his attempts to attend a meeting, of course he is going to ask why they were moved.

*** Come Season 8, when [[spoiler:Dany and her dragons burn Kings Landing to the ground, killing Jaime and Cersei in the process, and destroy the Red Keep, it becomes clear that Joffrey is 100% correct about the threat she poses.]]

** When Tommen is about to become king, Tywin gives him a talk, which is ''clearly'' intended to ease Tommen into his role as a puppet king while Tywin actually rules. He also manages to insult both Tommen's ostensible father (who had died relatively recently) and brother (while standing over his dead body). For all that, the content of his advice was sound. All other qualities are useless if not guided by wisdom, wise people listen to experts and advisors, particularly when young and inexperienced, and a it's important to be aware of the things you do not know or do not understand. In another context, this would all be excellent guidance for a young ruler.
* An extreme example, but as smarmy and unbearable as he may be, Walder Frey's reason for turning on Robb does makes sense. Robb did break his deal with him. When Catelyn Stark begs for Robb's life by giving him her word, Frey is quick to point out that he has no reason to trust a Stark's word when they have already broken a promise in the past.

* It takes a special level of jerkassery to admonish your own son that he better not make you rue the day you raped his mother, but Roose Bolton is nonetheless correct that Ramsay can't rely on fear of his cruelty alone to secure the North, since that is eventually likely to foment a rebellion and the Boltons' allies the Lannisters have ''never'' sent their own army this far north so they cannot rely on their skins being saved [[TheCavalry that way]].

** * Qyburn, who was training to be a Maester until he was expelled from the Citadel for his "perversions", also brings up a very good point that his experiments on people has made him the most competent Doctor in the Seven Kingdoms, as the Maesters in the Citadel are pedantically obsessed doing everything as they've always done things, thus leaving no room for improvement on outdated, inefficient medical treatments. Sure, Qyburn's methods are extremely unethical (including [[spoiler: reanimating Gregor Clegane into a horrifying GiantMook who unthinkingly obeys an increasingly-crazy Cersei]]), but you can't deny the man gets results.
* Miraculous breakthrough aside, Grand Maester Ebrose really ''should'' have expelled Sam from The Citadel then and there. Possibly even jailed. Even though Sam's intentions were noble and brave, he took an extremely careless chance trying to treat Ser Jorah. It could have (and was likely to) gone horribly wrong, and wiped out the entire Intelligencia of Westeros as greyscale ravaged Oldtown.

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion is harsh, and certainly selfish. But then, as he points out, their understanding had been clear from the start. Tyrion was happy to hire him away from his former employer, and has no grounds for complaint when someone beats his price. The heck of it is, Bronn appears to genuinely ''like'' Tyrion, but their friendship didn't extend to putting their lives on the line, certainly Tyrion had never risked his life for Bronn. And when Tyrion tries to needle Bronn by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies that [[BluntYes of course he is]]. You'd have to be a fool to want to fight him, and Tyrion can't offer enough to be worth the risk. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bear no ill will toward him.

** Stannis is practically the poster-child for this trope. While his demeanor is generally unsympathetic, he is usually right in his assesments. After his death, both Jon and Sam, at different points, say they should have listened to him.

** When Catelyn tries to insult him by calling him 'Kingslayer', notorious [[TheOathbreaker oathbreaker]] Jaime argues that the king in question was [[TheCaligula an insane monster]] and the [[ConflictingLoyalty numerous and contradictory vows]] knights swear make everyone an oathbreaker eventually. For instance, what if you've sworn to protect the king and defend the innocent, but the king massacres the innocent? Then Jaime points out that Ned Stark, while honourable, was not without his flaws either and Catelyn herself hardly fulfills the ideals of "Family, Duty, Honor" either, since she was never able to love Jon Snow, her husband's illegitimate son and an innocent child, and resented him. [[spoiler: Of course, this loses its effect once it turned out that Ned never broke his vows (at least as far as cheating on his wife goes- Jon's still upset about having been lied to), but neither of them know this.]]
** When Ned and Jaime meet in the throne room, Jaime manages to counter all of Ned's criticisms pretty well. For instance, when Ned condemns him for [[BodyguardBetrayal stabbing the Mad King in the back]], Jaime asks if he should have stabbed him in the front, exactly what Ned himself had been planning to do, and would have done if Jaime hadn't killed him. He also points out that, while Ned considers Jaime complicit in his father and brother's death, Jaime points out that the entire court, including Ned's WorthyOpponent Arthur Dayne, stood silently and watched it happen.

* Speaking of [[spoiler: Mirri Maz Duur]], as cruel as her words are to the woman who loved Khal Drogo and her unborn son Rhaego, and as treacherous as her actions were, she's not ''wrong'' that Khal Drogo was a bloodthirsty barbarian warlord who gleefully partook in RapePillageAndBurn ForTheEvulz and would have raised his son to have the same values. She's likewise got a point that, from the perspective of the teeming multitudes of non-Dothraki in the world, killing a Dothraki chosen one prophesied to unite the barbarians to ravage the entirety of the known world is no evil deed. She also makes a good point that given what Khal Drogo was responsible for doing to her and her community, her wanting vengeance is entirely justified. Finally, although she doesn't push this point forward in the series herself, she ''did'' warn Daenerys that her BloodMagic ritual was risky and unpredictable (albeit vaguely), so it's not her fault that Daenerys didn't get what she wanted.
* The Spice King is rude and condescending, but when Daenerys asks for ships to get to Westeros he raises some very good points: namely, that she has no real strategy for retaking Westeros, just a belief that everyone will flock to her as the rightful queen and that her massive entitlement issues are not going to make people agreeable to doing her any favours. Later on, he’s proven right about the Dragons’ ability to bring misery and destruction when one of Daenerys’ dragons is killed by the Night King, used to break down the Wall and bring a ZombieApocalypse while another [[spoiler:laid waste to King’s Landing, killing hundreds of innocent people]].

** Being motivated by jealousy doesn't make Cersei's assessment of Margaery as a manipulative and two-faced social climber any less true.

* While he's unnecessarily a jerkass about it, Craster ''does'' have a large family to sustain through the years-long winter with the resources the Night's Watch are steadily consuming as his guests. Grenn and Dolorous Edd seem content enough with it and Sam even tries to point this out to Rast, but gets shot down with a FalseDichotomy.
* Though more of HypocriteHasAPoint, Littlefinger isn't wrong when he stated that Raegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's love brought great ruin to the realm. [[spoiler: Especially after some revelations during Season 7.]]

** In Season 1 Joffrey tells Cersei that, as king, he'd see to it that the Seven Kingdoms raise a full-time standing army rather than relying on whatever forces the various lords can muster in times of emergency. While he admits he wouldn't give them any choice about this, events after his death show the wisdom of this idea.
** [[TheCaligula Joffrey]] seems to be the only person in Westeros during Season 3 to appreciate the threat of Daenerys and her dragons, mentioning at one point that the prospect of a foreign army, led by a member of the previous ruling dynasty and packing ''three fully-grown dragons as weapons'' could be a bit problematic if it reaches Westerosi shores and wants to do something about them, even if she's a less immediate threat than his fellow contenders for the Iron Throne, while Tywin dismisses them as "curiosities" not worth his attention. Come Season 6 and, indeed, Dany arrives in Westeros and her dragons wreck the Lannister forces.
** In Season 3, he calls Tywin a DirtyCoward who stayed in Casterly Rock until the war was all but decided. He's not wrong, and judging by Tywin's reaction, he clearly struck a nerve.

*** Tywin acts like Joffrey asking him why he moved the Council meetings to his Tower is a stupid question, but when Joffrey (who, PuppetKing or not, is still the King) is now hugely inconvenienced in his attempts to attend a meeting, of course he's going to ask why they were moved.
*** When Joffrey complains about having to climb all the stairs of the Tower of the Hand to attend a Small Council meeting, Tywin just implies that he's lazy. The same Tywin who moved the Small Council meetings to the chamber within his tower so that he wouldn't have to waste his time walking to the original Council Chamber, making everyone else come to him instead. Joffrey ''is'' lazy, but Tywin is also being a huge {{Hypocrite}}.

** Joffrey mocks Jaime's lack of accomplishments and says that it's unlikely that a 40-year old knight that just lost his sword hand will achieve much. KickTheDog for sure, but also great point.

** The worst thing about Tywin's [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech denunciations]]—whether it's calling Jaime an [[BrilliantButLazy ambitionless bodyguard]], Cersei [[SmugSnake less clever than she thinks]], or Tyrion a fool for his [[HookersAndBlow drinking and whoring]]—is that he often has a point. In the case of the latter two, those prove to be {{Fatal Flaw}}s for them. Ironically, his own failings as a father [[{{Irony}} seem completely lost on him]].
** When Tyrion disapproves of [[spoiler: the Red Wedding]], Tywin asks him why it is more noble to kill thousands in battle than a dozen at dinner. Even acknowledging the thousands of soldiers who died as well, Tyrion really cannot dispute his father, having himself [[WhatMeasureIsAMook killed thousands]] [[NotSoDifferent of defenceless, ship-bound men]] in a [[GreekFire wildfire]] explosion less than a year past.
** When Tommen is about to become king, Tywin gives him a talk, which is ''clearly'' intended to ease Tommen into his role as a puppet king while Tywin actually rules. He also manages to insult both Tommen's ostensible father (who'd died relatively recently) and brother (while standing over his dead body). For all that, the content of his advice was sound. All other qualities are useless if not guided by wisdom, wise people listen to experts and advisors, particularly when young and inexperienced, and a it's important to be aware of the things you don't know or don't understand. In another context, this would all be excellent guidance for a young ruler.

** He's coarse and mocking when he sees Arya practising with her rapier, but he proves absolutely right that it stands no chance against even a mediocre swordsman in full plate. Though an unpleasant KickTheDog moment, it serves to teach her how to survive in a CrapsackWorld like Westeros, especially given how her family was decimated by those not willing to play by the rules.
** In the Season 4 finale, when Brienne finds Arya with him, he is also right about the flaws in her plan to find and protect the Stark girls by finding them "someplace safe", as she promised Arya's mother Catelyn she would do. He explains that Arya's parents and aunt are dead and there ''aren't'' a whole lot of safe places for Arya to be, not with so many people wanting her dead.

* It takes a special level of jerkassery to admonish your own son that he better not make you rue the day you raped his mother, but Roose Bolton is nonetheless correct that Ramsay can't rely on fear of his cruelty alone to secure the North, since that is eventually likely to foment a rebellion and the Boltons' allies the Lannisters have ''never'' sent their own army this far north so they can't rely on their skins being saved [[TheCavalry that way]].

* Bronn accepting Cersei's offer and refusing to fight for Tyrion is harsh, and certainly selfish. But then, as he points out, their understanding had been clear from the start. Tyrion was happy to hire him away from his former employer, and has no grounds for complaint when someone beats his price. The heck of it is, Bronn appears to genuinely ''like'' Tyrion, but their friendship didn't extend to putting their lives on the line, certainly Tyrion had never risked his life for Bronn. And when Tyrion tries to needle Bronn by asking if he's afraid of Ser Gregor, Bronn immediately replies that [[BluntYes ''of course'' he is]]. You'd have to be a fool to want to fight him, and Tyrion can't offer enough to be worth the risk. Even Tyrion seems to acknowledge his point, and bear no ill will toward him.

** When Tommen is about to become king, Tywin gives him a talk about which is ''clearly'' intended to keep him as a puppet king while Tywin pulls the strings. He also manages to insult both Tommen's ostensible father (who'd died relatively recently) and brother (while standing over his dead body). For all that, the content of his advice was sound: All other qualities are useless if not guided by wisdom, wise people listen to experts and advisors, particularly when young and inexperienced, and a it's important to be aware of the things you don't know or don't understand.

* Call it cowardly or selfish if you want, Bronn's betrayal of Tyrion did make sense. As he pointed out, he was getting a lot more in helping Cersei out. Even if he did fight for Tyrion, he had a very slim chance of winning against the Mountain. He also pointed out that it was unreasonable of Tyrion to demand him risk his life for him so many times when he never did the same for Bronn. Because of these points, Tyrion doesn't hold Bronn's decision against him.