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Deathmaster Snikch's Vortex campaign ends with him killing Malus Darkblade and [[YouKillItYouBoughtIt becoming Tzar'kan's host,]] which was his boss's plan all along. Okay, his chief enforcer just got a lot stronger, but is Sneek forgetting just how treacherous and ambitious every single member of his species is by nature? Yes, Clan Eshin is one of the more disciplined clans (so much so that it doesn't have a loyalty meter for its Lords), but it's still a risky gamble, especially since Tzar'kan ''never'' shuts up and could very well tempt Snikch into attempting to off his master and take over the clan. Did Sneek not consider that, or is he counting on Snikch's bloodlust and preference for going on missions to keep him in check? A little of both?

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Deathmaster Snikch's Vortex campaign ends with him killing Malus Darkblade and [[YouKillItYouBoughtIt becoming Tzar'kan's host,]] which was his boss's plan all along. Okay, his chief enforcer just got a lot stronger, but is Sneek forgetting just how treacherous and ambitious every single member of his species is by nature? Yes, Clan Eshin is one of the more disciplined clans (so much so that it doesn't have a loyalty meter for its Lords), but it's still a risky gamble, especially since Tzar'kan ''never'' shuts up and could very well tempt Snikch into attempting to off his master and take over the clan. Did Sneek not consider that, or is he counting on Snikch's bloodlust and preference for going on missions to keep him in check? A little of both?both?
* Snickch is pretty well brainwashed into an un-Skavenlike loyalty, Sneek is banking on that keeping the Daemon at bay. It's a hell of a risk but Skaven leaders are somewhat known for gambling on the future.
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* Probably the same way the ancient Nehekharans did, with settlements built around oases and deep wells, held together by slave (or peasant) labour. Adding to that, only Repanse's group, the Chevaliers de Lyonesse, treat the desert as Green climate, and they have a unique mechanic built around managing the water available to their armies. Mainland Bretonnians from the Mortal Empires campaign lack the crusaders' survival skills, and treat the desert as a sprawling wasteland.

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* Probably the same way the ancient Nehekharans did, with settlements built around oases and deep wells, held together by slave (or peasant) labour. Adding to that, only Repanse's group, the Chevaliers de Lyonesse, treat the desert as Green climate, and they have a unique mechanic built around managing the water available to their armies. Mainland Bretonnians from the Mortal Empires campaign lack the crusaders' survival skills, and treat the desert as a sprawling wasteland.wasteland.

[[WMG: What is Nightlord Sneek's game here?]]
Deathmaster Snikch's Vortex campaign ends with him killing Malus Darkblade and [[YouKillItYouBoughtIt becoming Tzar'kan's host,]] which was his boss's plan all along. Okay, his chief enforcer just got a lot stronger, but is Sneek forgetting just how treacherous and ambitious every single member of his species is by nature? Yes, Clan Eshin is one of the more disciplined clans (so much so that it doesn't have a loyalty meter for its Lords), but it's still a risky gamble, especially since Tzar'kan ''never'' shuts up and could very well tempt Snikch into attempting to off his master and take over the clan. Did Sneek not consider that, or is he counting on Snikch's bloodlust and preference for going on missions to keep him in check? A little of both?
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* To conclude an answer based on the above points; neither. The Lizardmen are stagnating.
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* As for the Strygos Empire they've hung around in this timeline. Several other things are different too; Vlad von Cartstein's back early, Azhag is a contemporary threat rather than being dead for centuries etc.
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Nehekhara is considered Green climate to Bretonnia. This means that Bretonnia is capable of somehow setting up a thriving large-scale agricultural economy in the middle of the desert. How do they do that?

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Nehekhara is considered Green climate to Bretonnia. This means that Bretonnia is capable of somehow setting up a thriving large-scale agricultural economy in the middle of the desert. How do they do that?that?
* Probably the same way the ancient Nehekharans did, with settlements built around oases and deep wells, held together by slave (or peasant) labour. Adding to that, only Repanse's group, the Chevaliers de Lyonesse, treat the desert as Green climate, and they have a unique mechanic built around managing the water available to their armies. Mainland Bretonnians from the Mortal Empires campaign lack the crusaders' survival skills, and treat the desert as a sprawling wasteland.
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* Likely a stylistic choice - It just sounds better that way. If you want a more lore-friendly explanation, though, remember that while most of the races of the world have motivations and thought systems that humans can understand, Lizardmen are borderline StarfishAliens that live according to BlueAndOrangeMorality that humans can't understand, so why should their language be any clearer?

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* Likely a stylistic choice - It just sounds better that way. If you want a more lore-friendly explanation, though, remember that while most of the races of the world have motivations and thought systems that humans can understand, Lizardmen are borderline StarfishAliens that live according to BlueAndOrangeMorality that humans can't understand, so why should their language be any clearer?clearer?

[[WMG: The Bretonnian Economy in Nehekhara]]
Nehekhara is considered Green climate to Bretonnia. This means that Bretonnia is capable of somehow setting up a thriving large-scale agricultural economy in the middle of the desert. How do they do that?

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Changed: 1952

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->As the High Elves: The player is seen as a usurper who is using the power of the Great Vortex to overthrow the Phoenix King and take control of Ulthuan and become new leader of the Asur. (??)
->As the Lizardmen: The player's interpretation and enforcement of the Great Plan is seen as "too much at variance" with the other Temple-Cities. This, combined with their control of the Great Vortex's power, has caused them to become an unexpected (and probably unintended) dividing factor among the lizardmen. (??)
->As the Dark Elves: The player has brought about a schism among the Druchii. Creating an opposing camp that would, either out of fear, ignorance or prideful defiance, prefer things to go back to the way they were before they took control of the Great Vortex.
->As the Skaven: The player has triggered what may very well be the Final Skaven Civil War. Although successful in summoning the Horned Rat into the mortal plane, they did so by using the blood of Grey Seer Vulscreek. Forcing the Grey Seer Clan to declare the player's clan as "traitors to the under-empire" and rally all of their loyal clans in a desperate battle to survive. Thus, every skaven is forced to choose between siding with the player or the Grey Seers.

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->As * The Court of the High Elves: The Phoenix King is notoriously quarrelsome and fractious, with province bickering with province for favor and attention from the Phoenix King. Controlling the Vortex, or even just taming it, immediately makes the player is seen as a usurper who is using the hero of Ulthuan, the obvious [[TallPoppySyndrome tall poppy]] that the others need to unite against lest they become politically irrelevant forevermore.
* The Lizardmen have the best reason for this. With
the power of the Great Vortex to overthrow the Phoenix King and winning faction can use it to simply force their take control of Ulthuan and become new leader of the Asur. (??)
->As the Lizardmen: The player's interpretation and enforcement of
on the Great Plan to happen, which is seen as "too much at variance" with exactly the same hubris the Old Ones once tripped over that let Chaos into the world in the first place. The other Temple-Cities. This, combined with their control of Lizardmen do ''not'' want to see a third Chaos Gate open up because some slann went on a power trip.
* The Dark Elves don't really need an excuse to fight and betray each other, it's just what they do. Everyone wants
the Great Vortex's power, has caused them to become an unexpected (and probably unintended) dividing factor among the lizardmen. (??)
->As the
and Dark Elves: The player has brought about a schism among the Druchii. Creating an opposing camp that would, either out of fear, ignorance or prideful defiance, prefer things Elves more than any other race are arrogant, prideful, and deluded enough to go back to the way think they were before they took control of the Great Vortex.
->As the Skaven: The player has triggered what may very well be the Final
can actually take it.
* While
Skaven Civil War. Although successful in summoning the Horned Rat into the mortal plane, they did so by using the blood of Grey Seer Vulscreek. Forcing the Grey Seer Clan don't need a reason to declare turn on each other either, their focus on the player's clan as "traitors faction makes sense. With the Great Horned Rat summoned to the under-empire" and rally all mortal realm, every Skaven is now fighting to be the last Skaven standing, to be the most favored of the Horned Rat. The player's faction already holds that honor, though, since they summoned the Horned Rat, so they need to go away first. Any surviving Grey Seers would likely encourage this as revenge for their loyal clans in a desperate battle to survive. Thus, every skaven is forced to choose between siding with the player or the Grey Seers.
clan being marked for sacrifice.



So obviously nobody in the game is actually speaking any real world language given that they aren't from our world, but whatever they are saying is translating for the convience for the audience. Except for the Lizardmen, even with their diplamacy lines, except for Slann characters. Why is that? Everyone is speaking their own native tongue either way so why are is there no TranslationConvention for the Lizardmen?

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So obviously nobody in the game is actually speaking any real world language given that they aren't from our world, but whatever they are saying is translating for the convience for the audience. Except for the Lizardmen, even with their diplamacy lines, except for Slann characters. Why is that? Everyone is speaking their own native tongue either way so why are is there no TranslationConvention for the Lizardmen?Lizardmen?
* Likely a stylistic choice - It just sounds better that way. If you want a more lore-friendly explanation, though, remember that while most of the races of the world have motivations and thought systems that humans can understand, Lizardmen are borderline StarfishAliens that live according to BlueAndOrangeMorality that humans can't understand, so why should their language be any clearer?
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->As the Skaven: The player has triggered what may very well be the Final Skaven Civil War. Although successful in summoning the Horned Rat into the mortal plane, they did so by using the blood of Grey Seer Vulscreek. Forcing the Grey Seer Clan to declare the player's clan as "traitors to the under-empire" and rally all of their loyal clans in a desperate battle to survive. Thus, every skaven is forced to choose between siding with the player or the Grey Seers.

to:

->As the Skaven: The player has triggered what may very well be the Final Skaven Civil War. Although successful in summoning the Horned Rat into the mortal plane, they did so by using the blood of Grey Seer Vulscreek. Forcing the Grey Seer Clan to declare the player's clan as "traitors to the under-empire" and rally all of their loyal clans in a desperate battle to survive. Thus, every skaven is forced to choose between siding with the player or the Grey Seers.Seers.

[[WMG: No TranslationConvention for Lizardmen]]
So obviously nobody in the game is actually speaking any real world language given that they aren't from our world, but whatever they are saying is translating for the convience for the audience. Except for the Lizardmen, even with their diplamacy lines, except for Slann characters. Why is that? Everyone is speaking their own native tongue either way so why are is there no TranslationConvention for the Lizardmen?
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* Ultimately it doesn't matter who gets sacrificed. Summoning the Great Horned Rat into the world is the whole Skaven race's 'win condition' - Past that point clan distinctions aren't going to matter because the Great Horned Rat is just going to kill everyone, including the Skaven. Skaven being Skaven, however, would prefer that sacrificial 'honor' go to someone other than them (otherwise they can't prove to the Great Horned Rat that they are clearly the single best Skaven in the world and should be personally spared, but only them) so they're all hard at work to make sure some other sucker - it doesn't matter who - is stuck holding the bag when the time comes.
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** As far as Settra knows (due to having limited to no contact with Ulthuan or the Karaz Ankor) he was the greatest leader of the greatest civilization in the history of the world, which means there is ''nobody'' better-qualified to lead than he is and he's proved it. While he is an egomaniac, this meritocratic view of leadership means he sees it as his ''responsibility'' to rule the world rather than something he specifically ''wants''. Nagash, by contrast, believes he should rule the world because, well, he wants to. By this measure, Settra would think of Nagash as a monster - Nagash was a terrible ruler who crippled Nehekhara for his own benefit and when the other Priest-Kings (violently) held him accountable for his greed and incompetence he threw a gigantic temper tantrum and destroyed Nehekhara rather than let anybody else rule it. While there may be some similarities to the outside observer, Settra would view Nagash as his antithesis and get offended at the comparison.

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* Expanding the question even further: Why would the Council of Thirteen sacrifice Clan Rictus/Skryre as well?

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* Expanding the question even further: Why If Clan Mors/Pestilens doesn't get involved in the Vortex scheme, then Clan Rictus/Skryre will be picked instead. But why would the Council of Thirteen sacrifice Clan Rictus/Skryre as well?
Rictus/Skryre?

Changed: 110

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* Expanding the question even further: Why would the Council of Thirteen sacrifice Clan Rictus/Skryre as well?
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After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you. While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore. So with that said, why would the other High Elves and the Lizardmen begin to turn against the player?

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After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you. While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore. So with that said, why would the other High Elves and the Lizardmen factions begin to turn against the player?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you. While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore. So with that said, why would the High Elves and the Lizardmen begin to turn against the player?

to:

After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you. While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore. So with that said, why would the other High Elves and the Lizardmen begin to turn against the player?

Changed: 309

Removed: 212

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After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you.
While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore.

to:

After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you.
you. While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore.lore. So with that said, why would the High Elves and the Lizardmen begin to turn against the player?

Added: 1741

Changed: 15

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* Ask any casual Warhammer fan if it's very unusual for Araby to be only MENTIONED in this game and not appear as a Minor Faction and they will give you a resounding yes: They would find it very suspicious that the Crusading Errantries of Bretonnia, originally created to put a stop to raids from Arabyan pirates, are now given a total rewriting of their lore to have them serve as Crusaders against the necromancy of the Tomb Kings and... the Strygos Empire? Wait, why is the Strygos Empire in Araby and not the badlands, their original region? They were completely destroyed by the orcs and the surviving remnants, the Strigany, fled north into Tilea and Sylvania, not south-west through Nehekhara.

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* Ask any casual Warhammer fan if it's very unusual for Araby to be only MENTIONED in this game and not appear as a Minor Faction and they will give you a resounding yes: They would find it very suspicious that the Crusading Errantries of Bretonnia, originally created to put a stop to raids from Arabyan pirates, are now given a total rewriting of their lore (in this game) to have them serve as Crusaders against the necromancy of the Tomb Kings and... the Strygos Empire? Wait, why is the Strygos Empire in Araby and not the badlands, their original region? They were completely destroyed by the orcs and the surviving remnants, the Strigany, fled north into Tilea and Sylvania, not south-west through Nehekhara.



* A monster. The similarities are...well, not skin deep, [[DemBones given the nature of the individuals in question]] so let's say superficial. Yes, they both want to rule the world but so does Malekith, many human rulers and every smart-enough-to-have-an-imagination Skaven. But their internal logic for that desire is different. Nagash is a selfish egotist who sees control of everything, even death itself, as only his due. Settra sees himself as a firm but ultimately benevolent ruler. Nagash wants to rule the world because it benefits him, Settra wants to rule the world because he honestly believes the world would be better off that way. Settra can respect many of his enemies even as he sets out to crush them as at least they are doing what they think to be right even if he's sure they're not but Nagash's utter selfishness disgusts him.

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* A monster. The similarities are...well, not skin deep, [[DemBones given the nature of the individuals in question]] so let's say superficial. Yes, they both want to rule the world but so does Malekith, many human rulers and every smart-enough-to-have-an-imagination Skaven. But their internal logic for that desire is different. Nagash is a selfish egotist who sees control of everything, even death itself, as only his due. Settra sees himself as a firm but ultimately benevolent ruler. Nagash wants to rule the world because it benefits him, Settra wants to rule the world because he honestly believes the world would be better off that way. Settra can respect many of his enemies even as he sets out to crush them as at least they are doing what they think to be right even if he's sure they're not but Nagash's utter selfishness disgusts him.him.

[[WMG: The player is not allowed to go against the Status Quo?]]
After winning the Vortex Campaign, your faction gets a plethora of powerful factionwide bonuses but also a growing diplomatic penalty that will eventually cause ''everyone'', including factions of your own race, to turn against you.
While this allows you to continue the postgame with the goal of conquering the entire world, this makes absolutely no sense when playing as the High Elves and Lizardmen as it would go completely against the lore.
->As the High Elves: The player is seen as a usurper who is using the power of the Great Vortex to overthrow the Phoenix King and take control of Ulthuan and become new leader of the Asur. (??)
->As the Lizardmen: The player's interpretation and enforcement of the Great Plan is seen as "too much at variance" with the other Temple-Cities. This, combined with their control of the Great Vortex's power, has caused them to become an unexpected (and probably unintended) dividing factor among the lizardmen. (??)
->As the Dark Elves: The player has brought about a schism among the Druchii. Creating an opposing camp that would, either out of fear, ignorance or prideful defiance, prefer things to go back to the way they were before they took control of the Great Vortex.
->As the Skaven: The player has triggered what may very well be the Final Skaven Civil War. Although successful in summoning the Horned Rat into the mortal plane, they did so by using the blood of Grey Seer Vulscreek. Forcing the Grey Seer Clan to declare the player's clan as "traitors to the under-empire" and rally all of their loyal clans in a desperate battle to survive. Thus, every skaven is forced to choose between siding with the player or the Grey Seers.
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In spite of all their enmity, their motives and goals are not that different. Both want uncontested rule of the world as a god like being, have no qualms about enslaving the bodies and souls of others to do so, and are heavily relying on necromancy to that end. Does Settra view Nagash as a monster, or a rival?

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In spite of all their enmity, their motives and goals are not that different. Both want uncontested rule of the world as a god like being, have no qualms about enslaving the bodies and souls of others to do so, and are heavily relying on necromancy to that end. Does Settra view Nagash as a monster, or a rival?rival?
* A monster. The similarities are...well, not skin deep, [[DemBones given the nature of the individuals in question]] so let's say superficial. Yes, they both want to rule the world but so does Malekith, many human rulers and every smart-enough-to-have-an-imagination Skaven. But their internal logic for that desire is different. Nagash is a selfish egotist who sees control of everything, even death itself, as only his due. Settra sees himself as a firm but ultimately benevolent ruler. Nagash wants to rule the world because it benefits him, Settra wants to rule the world because he honestly believes the world would be better off that way. Settra can respect many of his enemies even as he sets out to crush them as at least they are doing what they think to be right even if he's sure they're not but Nagash's utter selfishness disgusts him.

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