History Headscratchers / TheElderScrollsVSkyrim3

** As an aside, there really is no training on "what to do if you encounter a Daedric Lord." Either the Prince has some end in mind for you, in which case he'll let you live past the encounter, or [[ShoutOut you might as well just curl up in a ball and cry, because]] [[Machinima/FreemansMind what do you do when something that powerful wants to kill you?]]

** Maurice mentions he didn't catch the part about using nettlebane on the Eldergleam, and as he points out, an alternative without harming the Eldergleam was available (He probably figured you were going for something like that - if not exactly whe he decided to do). Maurice also points his way of doing things is closer to Kynareth's teaching. It's likely the princess didn't fully think it through.

* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim3a The Aedra, Daedra, creates and people encountered]]

* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim5 Lore and History of the Elder Scrolls]]
* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim5 The meta: questions about gameplay mechanics]]

* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim1 Archive Page 1]]
* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim2 Archive Page 2]]
* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim4 Archive Page 4]]
* [[Headscratchers/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim5 Archive Page 5]]

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[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Dragonrend and Daedra]]
* So "Dragonrend" disorients Dragons because they are immortal beings that can't comprehend mortality. Shouldn't it have a similar effect on the Daedra, who are just as immortal?
** Indeed. Most likely the dev team just didn't think of it.
** Alternatively, Dragonrend is purely a metaphysical concept. Other shouts have tangible, physical effects, while Dragonrend has no actual effect beyond your voice carrying over a long range - all that happens is you yell words. It works on dragons because it's in their language, they understand what you're saying but can't comprehend it, but Daedra presumably don't speak the dragon language, so to them you're just shouting gibberish really loudly (which, considering the kinds of things daedra usually deal with, probably isn't an uncommon occurrence).
** The shout is called ''Dragonrend'', not ''Daedrarend.'' It was created to be used against dragons, as Arngeir describes it as basically being fueled by the pure hatred of dragons. I suppose it's possible that a shout that weakens daedra could be devised, but it would have to be designed to counter them, and not just be a shout against another immortal species that shares a few similarities with the daedra but are mostly different.
*** The English name of shouts means nothing. Case and point "Fire Breath" and "Ice Breath" aren't breath weapons & "Elemental Fury" involves no element. Also note that Arngeir doesn't know Dragonrend, he's basing this off nothing other than his liking and respect for Paarthunax.
** Daedra aren't built the same way Dragons are, they're similar, but lets make a comparison between dragonrend and a virus. Some viruses can transfer between species, but one that's managed to tailor itself to the specific biology of a dog won't have any affect if a human caught it, and dragonrend likewise is tailored to affect dragons but won't affect a daedra or a more powerful aedra (though the second one's just a guess since dragon's are part aedra and the aedra themselves are mortal enough to be murdered).
** It should be noted that you can kill Daedra permanently in their plane of Oblivion (theoretically, however...)
** Dragons are the children/born from Akatosh's (The Draconic God of Time) soul, thereby making them literally represent the concept of immortality, infinity and eternity. Dragonrend is designed specifically to force the complete opposite upon their mind and souls hence it forcing it to land as result of hearing a BrownNote.
** Dragons are Aedric souls, which are fundamentally different from Daedric entities. The former are tied to Nirn and the Mundus while the latter are not. What affects one doe snot necessarily affect the other, especially as Daedra are mortal in their own respects and realms and can be killed by mortals.
** Dragonrend has no effect on Daedra, because Dragonrend was specifically made to target dragons. As in, the Shout itself was made of pure and undiluted hatred toward dragonkind, and is so integral to the Shout that it cannot be separated from Dragonrend. It doesn't affect Daedra because the fundamental nature of the Shout targets dragons exclusively.

[[folder: Ralof/Hadvar escaping Helgen]]
* I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier, but how does Ralof (if you follow Hadvar) or Hadvar (if you follow Ralof) escape from Helgen on their own? Or more to the point, why don't you encounter them on the way through the keep? If you follow Hadvar, you soon enter the room where Ralof went - in which both doors are locked - yet neither of the two stormcloaks in there is Ralof. Similarly, if you follow Ralof, two legionnaires come from the same room Hadvar went to, yet Hadvar's not with them. And before you ask, no, neither of them dies if you go with the other; if you switch sides during the civil war questline, they still show up. So, why don't you encounter them? And how did they escape?
** The room Ralof went in is locked from the inside. He presumably went in, past the other stormcloaks (who locked it behind him) and snuck out through the tunnel, past the bear, spiders and torturers, ahead of Hadvar and the player (if you went for Hadvar, since you had one more room to search). If you went with Ralof, Hadvar presumably just waited things out in the first room, before leaving, not like the keep got destroyed.
*** Okay, you answer for Hadvar's absence makes sense. However, your explanation for Ralof doesn't; he clearly couldn't open either gate (which is why you or him have to loot the key off of the captain). And even if he could open it, there'd be no reason for the other stormcloaks to lock it behind him, unless they went with him. And even if that was what happened, why wouldn't he help his comrades down in the torture room?
** Ralof likely took a different route to escape than the one you would have taken. He probably didn't even go into the keep at all, or if he did he found he was stuck and turned around to go back outside and find another way out of Helgen.
*** Agreed. If you follow Hadvar, there's no need for Ralof to save ''you'', so he likely goes off to find Ulfric and escapes directly to Windhelm with him, likely going the "back way" through the Rift and never approaching Riverwood. The "Hadvar room" opens into the "Ralof room," and Ralof isn't in the keep when you do that with no possible way of having gone further into the keep; the only logical conclusion is that he must not be in the keep. If you follow Ralof, it's possible Hadvar stays behind in the "Hadvar room" as rear guard, and only emerges well after Ralof and the Dovahkiin have gone onward.

[[folder: Inverse Dragonrend]]
* So if using Dragonrend is basically a mindscrew by showing the dragon the concept of mortality, why can't a dragon do a similar thing By shouting something along the lines of "Immortal Infinite Eternal"?
** They kind of don't need to. You need Dragonrend because the dragons are massive, many-tonned flying forces of mayhem and mortal-chomping, whereas you are a small, crunchy mortal. Dragonrend is needed to stun these massive beasts and force them to land, whereas you don't need to fly and can get tossed around by a single Fus. There's no reason for them to bother.
** There's no guarantee that kind of shout would work on the Dragonborn either. The Dragonborn is mortal ''and'' immortal at the same time, being a Dragon in a mortal's body.
** That and being tossed across the room by a Fus Ro Dah accomplishes the same thing against meatbag mortal. The Dragons likely just never bothered since they don't use Unrelenting Force on you either.
** It's also possible (thought it would be a slight stretch) to assume that a dragon implanting the concept of immorality on a mortal, while disorienting them, would actually end up empowering the mortal. The concept of mortality distresses the dragons enough to make them face plant onto the ground, but doing the reverse might cause the Dragonborn to get more hyped-up mid-battle, which probably isn't what an attacking dragon wants. This might be why the Dragonborn is a mortal; so something like Dragonrend couldn't work on them.

[[folder: Amren vs bandits]]
* Really Amren? The dude couldn't get his sword back from like 5 bandits?
** I'd like to see you beat five well-armed men single handedly.
** The Dovahkiin ''can'' take on five or more bandits, but the Dovahkiin is a certified magic-wielding, Thu'um shouting, sword swinging badass. Amren is a lone man with studded armor, an iron sword, and a family to think about. Most of the average [=NPCs=] in the game would honestly be hard-pressed to take on that many bandits and win; what makes you think Amren is special? Five bandits are, in fact, a serious threat to the individual NPC.
** It has nothing to do with whether or not he can take them. He's his family's sole breadwinner, and has given up fighting to take care of them. It isn't worth risking his life (and, since they rely on him, his family's lives) to get the sword, but it is worth offering a reward to any passing mercenary who might be able to deliver it.
** Amren is apparently good enough that the Thieves' Guild put a mark outside his house basically saying "don't mess with this guy." So yeah, it's not so much a case of that he can't do it, but rather he has to think about his family and can't just go running off into danger to retrieve a sword whose value is purely sentimental. This is pretty explicitly stated in the argument between him and his wife that plays when you meet him during your first visit to Whiterun.
*** His wife explicitly states that if he tries to leave Whiterun for the sword, she'll leave him.

[[folder: Sven/Faendal trusting random strangers]]
* Why would Sven trust a random stranger to deliver a fake letter to the girl he likes? Its just asking for trouble.
** Meta reason? It's a standard RPG cliche. In-game reason? Riverwood's population is at most, what, sixteen people? Maybe there really ''wasn't'' anyone else in Riverwood that he could trust to do it for him. The PC has no real reason ''not'' to deliver the letter, seeing as they're gonna get paid to do it.
*** And even if you assume Riverwood's population has been scaled down for gameplay purposes, the village probably would have no more than a few hundred people at most - and that's still "everybody knows everybody" level in the real world.
** Why wouldn't he? Its not like he's one of those idiot thieves who hands you a powerfully enchanted item and then runs off and says he'll be back for it. He's asking you to take a letter and hand it to the girl next door and will pay you money for it. Realistically, you know what just about anyone would do? Go "Whoo, easy money!" hand the letter over, and get paid.

[[folder: Whiterun's poor walls]]
* What's with the poor state of the walls of whiterun? I've seen medieval ruins in a better state than them. There are almost no places where the wall is at it's full height, even near the entrance of the city(giving any attackers an easy way to enter). The structure above the gate has completely fallen apart. And judging by the moss, it has been like this for several years, so it probably wasn't due to the stormcloak rebellion.
** The simplest explanation is that Balgruuf just didn't put money into repairing the walls. Ulfric mentions that the Empire has been taxing Skyrim heavily after the Great War, too, and many of the fortresses throughout Skyrim have also fallen into disrepair or been taken by bandits. Balgruuf may just not have the money to fix the walls properly.
** if skyrim is heavily taxed, then why don't you get any taxes on the house(s) you own?
*** If you have finished the Civil War, the taxes may be waived in view of your actions and the fact that you don't actually get a salary for your government position. If you haven't, on the other hand...
*** Being a Thane probably also exempts you from taxation, coupled with all the good work you've likely been doing for the Holds, on top of being the Dragonborn and eventually in deep with whoever is ruling Skyrim. Couple that with the fact that taxation will likely only apply to someone making regular income like a farmer or blacksmith, and the sheer amount of gold/goods you're injecting into everyone's economy eveerytime you sell a pile of enchanted superweapons/armor into the local economy. The Dragonborn is likely supporting a substantial part of the entire Skyrim economy through simply supplying so much high-value material, and this goes even further with a high Speech and the Investment perk. Coupled with the guilds you'll end up owning, your political, economic, military, spiritual, and personal influence would likely be so high that no one would dare tax you.
*** Almost certainly not. If anything, as a Thane it would be the player's responsibility to raise taxes for the Jarl, to raise an army for the Jarl's defense, and so on. Although Skyrim isn't necessarily feudal, it still has that "top-down" approach, but lacks a key piece: Thanes raising taxes and improving the walls, roads, etc. This is probably because, like the player, the other Thanes are out killing bandits and fighting in the civil war. Thanes likely pay enormous taxes, but we the players are spared that, because it's probably not fun to itemize everything the player owns and then pay a certain amount of gold based on that. Being a Thane is nearly a direct parallel to feudal lords, but players don't have to deal with any of the responsibilities. Because responsibilities aren't fun. We do quests for Jarls because we want a reward, not because the Jarl requires x number of quests each month, or because we need to pay x gold in taxes.
** But this isn't just simply worn a bit. The damage is absolutely massive. An entire building is missing two of its walls and a roof. The walls before the gate have massive holes. That doesn't just hapen after a few years of disrepair.
** As noted in the OP, the moss indicates that this damage was done a long time ago. Perhaps... [[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion 200 years ago?]] It's not a stretch to imagine that the major settlements of Skyrim came under siege during the Oblivion Crisis, and with the entire province in disarray after that, Whiterun's funds were probably appropriated for Skyrim as a whole. Factor in the Great War breaking out, and as the above poster noted, the high taxation that came of it, and it seems plausible that Whiterun simply never had the time or resources to fix its outer defenses.
** I got the impression that Balgruuf and his forebearers were just being lazy about it. Whiterun has enjoyed a long period of peace and there simply wasn't the need to have the walls repaired.
*** Lazy or not, Balgruuf complains about the sorry state of the walls when the Stormcloaks are at his gates (on the Imperial side of the civil war). In addition, the walls are merely really bad, as opposed to completely ineffective (they do require the invaders to charge through a winding path), so maybe his priorities weren't completely off... still, the sort of invasion that justifies having walls happened, and having bad walls made him nervous.
** Should be noted, Balgruuf and Avenicci have a discussion on Whiterun's economics randomly. Basically, the Civil War keeps racking up prices for supplies to the point that Whiterun is so economically depressed that they're on the verge of choosing to keep the City Guards or feed their people. Considering that Whiterun is one of the three economic centers of Skyrim, this has probably been going since long before the Civil War, and its implied the entire Empire hit a depression during and following the Great War. Add in that the first several decades of the 4th Era were filled with strife and power struggles to gain leadership of the Empire, its likely any damage caused by the Oblivion Crisis was never corrected unless it was deemed absolutely necessary (which would also explain how easily the Thalmor took over the Imperial City). By now, its necessary for Whiterun, but they're just so talos-damned poor from all the economic shennanigans they can't repair it.
** Also there's several Giant Camps around Whiterun and some of the Jarl's court express concerns about the Giants moving near the city implying that the Giants occasionally raid Whiterun randomly. Those walls probably barely do the job when in good condition anyways.
** In real-life Scandanavia and Anglo-Saxon England, where the society used the "Skyrim model" ( AKA Jarls/Earls, Thegns/Thanes, Huscarls/Housecarls, etc), it wasn't exactly the Jarls/Ealdormans/Earls responsibility to pay for the upkeep of the Burh/Burg (aka fortified settlement) walls. That, instead, was the responsibility of the Thegns, who were each responsible for both maintaining and manning a fortified gate in the Burh. Whiterun likely doesn't have enough Thegns to maintain the whole wall, and settles for having a decently-built gate.
** Also, the walls approaching the gatehouse still manage to do the job they're made to do pretty well. Crumbling as they are, they still force the attackers to take a narrow route up to the gate where line infantry can hold them back and shooters on the upper walls can rain death down on the incoming army. If this was something akin to, say, a Total war game, that approach would be a monstrous killbox, simply because the attackers really couldn't invade the city from any other direction.
** It's important to remember that the poor state of the walls is because the economy and wealth of the entire continent is in a bad place. The Fourth Era is akin to the Third Age in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'': the glory and wealth of the past is long since faded, and only a show of its great power remains. Whiterun's walls are a reflection of the faded glory that it once held: battered, crumbling, and ill-maintained due to a loss of wealth and power leaving the rulers unable to repair them and having to make do with wooden palisades and watch towers to augment the sorry state of those defenses. And its no surprise that Whiterun's hit hard times, between the Oblivion Crisis, the Great War, an now the Stormcloaks, trade through Whiterun has definitely suffered.

[[folder: Altmer in the intro]]
* If you pick High Elf as your race in the beginning, wouldn't the Imperials be really scared of executing a possible important member of the Thalmor? I mean they're already scared of the Thalmor as is, how would they feel if it turns out they killed an important person of theirs?
** Don't make any record of your execution, toss your body in a river, and hope the Thalmor think you were killed by bandits. Not the best solution, but they weren't exactly acting logically.
*** Don't forget that there are Thalmor ''with'' General Tulius as you're carted into Helgen. If they knew who you were or objected to your execution, they would've let him know.
** High Elf != Thalmor.
*** For that matter, Altmer != Citizen of the Aldmeri Dominion. More than a few Altmer live outside the borders of the Dominion, so it is entirely possible - indeed, fairly likely - that the Dovahkiin is an Altmer citizen ''of the Empire''.
** Also, many high-ranking Imperials (General Tullius, Legate Rilke, Hadvar, to name a few) despise Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion (and cooperate with them only because they are bound to by the Emperor's will), so they wouldn't pass an occasion to execute potential Thalmor spy. Especially the one thought to cooperate with dangerous rebel. If you listen closely, you'll find that there are even Imperials who think it were Thalmor who orchestrated the Stormcloak rebellion. And they are not far from the truth.

[[folder: Battle-born and Gray-Mane's wealth]]
* So the battle-born clan is rich while the gray-mane clan is poor. The battle-born clan has a farm. The gray-mane clan has one of the best smiths in the world, working a legendary forge. How in oblivion are the gray-mane clan any poorer than the battle-born?
** Eorlund seems to be in the smithing less for the money and more for the experience. That, and from what we see most of his commissions are doing free repair jobs/giving free starter equipment to the Companions. By the looks of things although he's a better smith, he's being beaten in business by the Warmaiden (They own a store, he has a single stand in the middle of the square). And finally, it's also basically outright stated that Eorlund's been spending a very long time reforging Wuuthrad from dozens and dozens of shards, something that probably would've cost him alot of very rewarding commissions over his lifetime.
** Aside from Eorlund mainly DoingItForTheArt, keep in mind, SpaceCompression. The Battleborn farmlands probably cover dozens of acres and feed hundreds, if not thousands of people. They apparently export all the way to Cyrodiill, after all. Eorlund is just one guy, and while he could probably do commission pieces for a hell of a lot of money, it still wouldn't equal the steady stream of income that mass food production would.
** The Battle-Borns own land and also seem to be high ranking members of the Imperial Army, to the point that they can call upon Whiterun's Blacksmith for large orders of weapons and armor. In addition, Eorland and his wife are likely the only source of income for their family, as Eorland's elder son was taken by the Thalmor, and his younger one is terrified of a similar fate and refuses to leave the house (alternatively, after their quest is complete, the Grey-Manes now have lost both sons entirely, so they're just an elderly couple). The Grey-Manes are likely kept afloat by the Companions out of gratitude, and may be considered poor otherwise.
*** The Civil War questline seems to imply that Vignar, not Eorland, is the head of Clan Grey-Mane, and that they have some men under their command(Balgruuf will state that Vignar's men weren't on the wall if the Stormcloaks win the Battle of Whiterun). While Vignar seems to be mostly retired from his Companion days, he seems to still have some pull.
** Also: No one is buying his stuff. The Skyforge is out of the way, and his only market presence is a tiny wooden stall run by a little old lady. Warmaidens is RIGHT at the entrance, and you can SEE the wares being made. Her sales pitch is also screwing him over, as she is essentially implying that her wares are not good as good, sure, but they still ARE good, and without that artisan price! Combine that with the companions monopolizing his time and aforementioned point that he may be the sole provider for the clan... yeah. "Gods be praised" indeed
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The Shadowscales]]
* How did the shadowscales die out? From what oblivion told us, every argonian born under the sign of the shadow is a shadowscale. How did argonians stop being born under a starsign?
** They didn't (though it should perhaps be noted that Morrowind implied that not everyone is born under a starsign). Remember, the Shadowscales consisted of Argonians born in Black Marsh under the Shadow and both trained and working with the Dark Brotherhood. The Dark Brotherhood that effectively collapsed outside Skyrim before the start of the game. No Dark Brotherhood in or near Black Marsh=The traditional treatment of a Shadow-born Argonian in Black Marsh is impossible=no Shadowscales... at least, not from the perspective of a ''traditional'' Shadowscale.
** Shadowscales are still being born, but instead of being trained by the Dark Brotherhood they are raised as assassins for the An-Xileel and the Hist, the ruling party in Black Marsh.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Two questions regarding the Greybeards]]
* Why are they unable to speak? Shouts only work in draconic, so you'd assume they'd still be capable of speaking other languages.
** The Greybeards are still fully capable of human speech, it's just that their voices are so powerful, they'd kill anyone they tried to have a conversation with. Arngeir flat-out tells you this is the case if you ask him why he's the only one who'll talk with you. If you ''do'' try to interact with any of the other Greybeards, they'll whisper an acknowledgement to you that causes the whole room to quake.
** But why would their human speech hold any power at all? Even the shouts created by humans (like dragonrend, and possibly that weird target thingie the greybeards summon) are spoken in draconic. But all the greybeards speak in the game is draconic.
*** Hmmm.... You're right. In fact, I just realized that Arngeir is the only one to ''ever'' use human tongue. Even when one of the other Greybeards speaks to him during part of the main quest, it's in draconic. Perhaps it's simply that the other Greybeards have spent so long speaking with the Voice that they've forgotten all other languages.
*** Or maybe that's just their means of discipline. Maybe they believe that using human speech interferes with their ability to use Thu'um?
*** We meet their founder in sovngarde, and he still speaks non-draconic. Paarthurnax, who created the teachings for the greybeards apparently also follows them himself, and he speaks as well, so it apparently isn't part of the way of the voice. And its not just length, since Arngeir wouldn't be able to speak human either in that case.
*** Paarthurnax is a dragon and by extension, naturally a master, like Arngeir. otherwise you (remember, dragon soul in mortal body) wouldn't be able to speak to anyone)
** Because the power of the Thu'um is not based on the dragon language; the dragon language ''focuses'' the Thu'um. Its the difference between a controlled gunpowder reaction in a firearm to direct a bullet, and an uncontrolled gunpowder cookoff. If you spend enough time studying it and understanding it, the Thu'um itself becomes an unconscious part of you. You project power through your voice, and Borri, Wulfgar, and Einarth have simply reached a point where ''anything'' they say unconsciously carries the power of the Thu'um. Speaking int he dragon language keeps the Thu'um from going out of control and leveling the entire building, and even then, simply speaking causes the building to shake.
** Why are there no students? All of the greybeards are fairly advanced in age and it takes a long, long time for someone to learn even the most basic shouts (and paarthunax can hardly go looking for students himself), so with any bad luck, all of 4 of them could die before being able to teach someone the clear weather shout (which would allow him/her to visit paarthunax).
*** Two things: One, their selection methods are extremely strict, and not everyone is willing to live the extremely secluded and meditative life of a Greybeard. Two, they did have ''one'' known student (ya'know, Ulfric), but he not only left, but also used his shout to kill the King of Skyrim. Maybe they're not exactly willing to teach many more people after that.
*** The Greybeards were masters of the Voice over six hundred years ago when Tiber Septim lived. I think it's safe to say that old age isn't an issue for them. And it is extremely unlikely that they would die a violent death, as they are some of the most powerful [=NPCs=] in the game in addition to having a brace of Dragon Shouts to use. Just lure a troll into High Hrothgar and see just how much "bad luck" it'll take for a Greybeard to actually go down. Even if they did, it wouldn't cut Paarthurnax off from the rest of the world, since he could easily fly down from the mountain and teach Clear Skies to someone else.
*** Those weren't the ''same'' Greybeards. If they are immortal then how did Jurgen Windcaller die... There's no indication they live older than any older mortal.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: What shout did Ulfric use to kill the High King?]]
* Unrelenting Force?
** He's got Unrelenting Force and the Disarm shout. Elisif, and everyone else in her court aside from Falk, screech endlessly on how Ulfric 'blasted him apart with the Thu'um', but as we all know Disarm is ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin and Unrelenting is WreakingHavok, neither of them can blast a man apart. Even so, it's clear he did at least use a Thu'um, so it was likely Unrelenting. Mostly because Ulfric says he knocked Toryyg down and then stabbed him.
** Also, Unrelenting Force sends people flying and is obviously kinetic in nature, so, judging by the effect, this Shout is a rough equivalent of hitting the target with battering ram or a speeding car. It maybe does not "rip people apart" but is definitely capable of breaking bones and rupturing organs.
** If you ask Ulfric about it, he'll explain that he used Unrelenting Force to knock the High King down and then stabbed him in the chest. (Which is how most players use it, too.) The tale grew in the telling.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Incompetent thieves]]
* How come that thieves you meet in the wild accost you with traditional "your money or your life" (and they always mean it), even if Thieves Guild is pretty adamant that killing on the job is bad for business? They are members of the Guild because when you are also a member, you can go free by pointing it out. And your assailants still decide to let you go even if it means that you can expose their questionable methods to the Guild leaders.
** They're robbing people on the road in the first place, in bloody ''Skyrim''. They have to be prepared to kill. The Thieves' Guild frowns on killing on the job, but if you've got to put steel in someone's gut, its better to have a murder than be empty-handed.
** You could also argue that this is a case of SchrodingersGun. If you never bring up the fact that you're in the Guild, then this so-called "Thief" was just some jerk who accosted and tried to kill you. However, if you ''do'' bring up the fact that you're in the Guild, then it turns out that he's a member as well, and it could very well be that the whole "Your money or your life" line is just a threat designed to loosen peoples' purse strings as quickly as possible. In short, [[MindScrew the player's choice determines which of two mutually exclusive realities manifests itself.]]
** Brynolf only discourages killing actual clients, which include people they regularly extort money from, people who hire them for robbery jobs and those important to them, and people who not only have objects of value, but also means to get them. Some random bum traveling Skyrim likely isn't a frequent client of the guild, and probably carries everything of value on his persons. Between dying to the Thief and dying to some random bear attack in the wild only has one difference: both are likely and only one will end up with the thief running off with the loot.
** Or they're ''not'' actually in the Guild, but don't want to cross them. Perhaps most shady types have heard that the Guild has contacts in the Dark Brotherhood (and even if not, getting on their bad side would still be a bad idea; hell, the fact that they have plenty of guards in their pockets means that someone trying to mug a member of the Guild could wind up being framed for enough crimes to draw a massive bounty in all of the holds at once). Acting like they're in with the Guild could mean the two of you sharing a laugh over a little misunderstanding instead of them being robbed of everything they own, thrown in a dungeon, and killed in their sleep.
** Brynolf also specifies the reason for their discouraging killing as a purely business matter; it means having to pay off guards, dispose of bodies, and other hassles that cost time and money. Killing a traveler out on the road, however, makes that easy. Your body can be dragged off the beaten path twenty paces, hidden in some bushes, and animals will take care of the rest within a week. Guard patrols along the roads are thin and searches for missing people don't seem to be done by law enforcement, but rather by private parties hired by their family. Also, no witnesses.
** Also remember that the Thieves' Guild ''does'' engage in brigandage. Sapphire's crew hit Shadr's shipment, for example, and Delvin's "numbers jobs" are explicitly preparation so that Guild crews can hit shipments to said business without anyone noticing that their stock has actually gone missing or a shipment is overdue. So the Guild does do some robbery on the side in addition to extortion, pickpocketing, smuggling, and break-ins.
*** They could just be really bad at being thieves you know...
** Remember that the rule (which is barely enforced with which to begin), is no killing on the ''job''. As long as the player isn't specifically targeted by the guild (which seems unlikely, as he might very well be guild leader at this point), the thief is free to do what he wants, including killing civillians, guards or royalty.
[[/folder]]


[[folder: Nords and magic regulations (or the lack thereof)]]
* Considering how Nords are so anti-magic how come there aren't stronger attempts to regulate magicians that are outside of the college? Seems like they just let random mages walk around skyrim and set up twisted experiments in abandoned places.
** Are you going to pick a fight with somebody who can turn you into a newt? They hate mages because they're afraid of what they can do, whether purposefully or by accident.
** "Doesn't like magic" != "anti-magic regulations." Not to mention most of the Jarls like having a court mage or three around to provide services. Also keep in mind that while a lot of Nords don't ''like'' magic, they feel that physical strength and fighting capability are ''superior'' to using magic. Banning a form of combat that is inferior to physical martial prowess is just silly from their perspective.
** The concept 'If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns' applies. It would be unthinkably foolish to instate anti-magic regulations, as it would mean that those who wish to continue using magic wouldn't have an easy time in society and would remove themselves from Skyrim society at best, or turn to banditry at worst. Making the College the one 'safe' place to practice magic freely would make for a pretty severe power imbalance in the long run and would probably lead to even more political shenanigans. After all, look at Necromancy in Cyrodiil circa Oblivion. Just one aspect of magic was declared forbidden, and so those practitioners mustered their resources to try to destroy the Mages Guild. Now, consider if all of magic was treated similarly throughout Skyrim.
** Note that the general Nord opinion on magic is that it is inferior to fighting physically, but not many Nords are opposed to magic itself. Even the most virulent mage-haters like the Jarl of Winterhold is more against the unrestrained use of magic by the College itself than magic as a whole. In fact, quite a few Nords are appreciative of magic, going by guard commentary. "Destruction magic's fine, just don't go burning down any villages." "So you're the one who casts those illusions, huh? Impressive." "Hail summoner. Conjure me up a warm bed, would you?" "Hey, could you enchant my sword? Dull old blade can barely cut butter," and most importantly of all, "I have a lot of respect for the Restoration school. Skyrim could use more healers." If anything, the Nords seem to have a more negative opinion on thievery, going by how they're openly distrusting and derisive if you have higher level thieving skills.
** I think a better comparison is being technically adept, like knowing coding or how to build a computer. People who are technically inept will call those skilled in electronics "nerds" and mock their perceived weakness, because they aren't big and strong and have a manly job like "real men." The extremes are similar to people who hate new technology and are suspicious of the "[[ScienceIsBad evil science stuff]]" that these scientists are doing in their laboratories. However, even those who insult nerds will give some grudging respect when they ask if one could fix their iPod or set up their Netflix for them.
** It's not about regulating it or fearing it'll end up in the wrong hands - the Nords just think magic is for sissies. It's not even a thing to be despised, those who use magic and heckled and ridiculed. It should also be noted that this actually has some grounding in actual Norse society - seidr was a form of magic used amongst them, practiced mainly by women. Men who practiced seidr were rare, primarily due to the fact that doing so brought a taboo upon them called "ergi". Seidr (that is magic) was considered unmanly because it relied on trickery and was opposite to the open, honest manner in which men were to conduct themselves. This same principle applies here. Notice that women NPC who use magic aren't nearly subject to the same anti-magic stigma in Skyrim.
** It seems to me the reason Nords don't bother regulating magic is because they have pretty strong defenses against it. If ever a mage decides to go rogue the guards can stop by the nearest alchemist and load up on Potions of Resist [blank]. And they can always have the court wizard make them a whole mess of magic-resistant armor and weapons that drain magicka if they really need it. So mages aren't any more threatening to the people of Skyrim than your average bandit gang.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Werewolves in Jorrvaskr]]
* Didn't people start asking questions around the fourth time a werewolf came from Jorrvasker and rampaged throughout Whiterun?
** They don't know exactly where the werewolves keep coming from. The Companions do their thing in the middle of the night when most people are asleep and the guys on guard duty are walking around with torches which limit their vision and make it really hard to tell where something came from. All the guards really know is "Suddenly, a werewolf!"
** Also, note that there is another passage leading out from under the Skyforge and into the plains surrounding Whiterun. It could be that previous initiates into the circle were herded out this particular tunnel. You just happened to go so wild that the Companions couldn't keep you from running amok through the city.
** In addition, it doesn't happen ''that'' often. There's only five other memebers of the circle, so that's only a half-dozen times in recent memory. Plus from what the other Companions say of yours and Farkas's transformations, the transformation isn't normally so violent; people don't always go beserk on their first transformation.
*** And that's also assuming that you ''did'' terrorize the town, instead of just avoiding people until you changed back.
** Thing is, it's mentioned that the Companions have had a few werewolves in their ranks for a few hundred years now. While it doesn't happen too often, it's been going on for centuries. I'd be surprised if the Jarl of Whiterun wasn't in on it. Vignar is almost certainly aware of it, at least.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Riverwood left unguarded]]
* How come Riverwood doesn't have troops stationed there in the first place, considering how there is a civil war going on?
** Mainly because it's a backwater area with no real strategic importance to either side. Attacking it would essentially be a waste of time for both sides. A Dragon won't care about it's strategic importance, however.
** Also, the fortress at Helgen was a relatively short distance away, with a substantial Imperial presence. Since Riverwood is pretty much sitting between Whiterun and Helgen, it is within a relatively short distance of two large and well-equipped garrisons. Fellows of ill intent are unlikely to bother with it.
** Balgruuf's steward Proventius Avenicci mentions that deploying troops to Riverwood would be seen as a threat by the Jarl of Falkreath. Given that Whiterun is trying to stay neutral for as long as possible that would be a very bad thing.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The Emperor and the Brotherhood]]
* Why is the Emperor so... [[spoiler:accepting of death]], anyway? Is he remorseful over the banning of Talos worship, is he really just that tired of the world, or does he simply realize that it's impossible to stop you and decides to go along with it peacefully?
** It is probably a combination of factors - remorse over having had to sign the White-Gold Concordat (not just the banning of Talos parts), realizing that it is impossible to stop you, realizing that whoever got you to do it may simply find another way if you die, being a bit tired of the world from the stresses of running the Empire in a time of extreme crisis...
** That, and he realizes that with him gone, a more competent heir may take the throne; so you may have actually done him and the Empire a ''huge'' favor, and not even realize it.
** He indicated that he didn't think the Brotherhood would be so easily stopped even before you reached him. He'd probably done his best to get things in order and reach acceptance of what was happening as soon as the first hint of the plot appeared. Once you get to him, you've already dealt with a number of people who are would have had a better chance of stopping you than him. Regardless of any other reason he might have accepted it, there was little reason for him to think he had a way out of it at that point.
[[/folder]]


[[folder: Ralof accusing the Thalmor of helping capture Ulfric]]
* In the beginning Rolof says the Thalmor helped the Imperials capture Ulfric. Why? Isn't it best for the Thalmor to have the war keep on going?
** Ralof says nothing about the Thalmor directly helping with the capture of Ulfric. He says that they might have been involved at some point, but he is not really a knowledgable source regarding how they were captured.
** Ralof guesses that the Thalmor had a hand in their capture. That doesn't necessarily mean they did. Assuming they did, the dossier on Ulfric mentions his rebellion is doing just a little bit too well for their liking. They could have decided that it was better to nip it at they bud and come up with another plot to weaken the empire.
** The dossier on Ulfric does mention that him winning the war and becoming High King of Skyrim is a very bad thing for the Dominion, so it's likely the Thalmor decided that Ulfric had done enough to weaken the Empire and decided to get rid of him by giving off some intel they had of him to the Empire.
*** The Dossier says only a Stormcloak victory should be avoided.
** The Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture, in fact, in the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric, they explicitly say that Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chances of an Imperial victory and thus harmed the Thalmor's position in Skyrim. Ralof was just pissed off about having been captured and when he saw Elenwen talking with Tullius decided that the Thalmor would make a good scapegoat.
*** Actually, the entire opposite is true. The same dossier says that him winning the war (which he was very close to doing before Tulius came along) is even worse than an Imperial victory because it means that they have to deal with a revitalized, wild-card nation that absolutely hates them and which provides two fronts for them to content with. And that such an outcome must be implicitly avoided. It's perfectly logical to assume that they thought that Ulfric had done enough to destabilize the Empire and decided to cut him off at that point. Which also makes sense regarding their presence at the execution. And why she was even talking with Tulius anyway.
*** Hrrm no. The Dossier says no such thing. Seriously, [[http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak go read it]] rather than making up huge statements it never says. It only says a Stormcloak victory should be avoided and they must therefore be careful about any help they give the Stormcloak. It never implies a Stormcloak victory is worst than an Imperial one. It never gives a reason why it'd be bad. For all we know it's to be avoided coz its less preferable than the conflict never ending. On top of that, the two front thing makes no sense. Skyrim is north of Cyrodill, and the Dominion is south of Cyrodill. If a war broke out, it'd be still just one front. Independant Skyrim or not.
*** If Ulfric and his lot win, it would basically lead to the Empire fracturing, considering Skyrim bridges the Northern Imperial states to the Southern ones. So the idea that the Thalmor would like to avoid a Stormcloak victory because they want both sides to keep fighting when one's victory means the annihilation of one of their foes carries no weight. Them dreading a Skyrim under Ulfric's leadership is the only reason why they would be wary of a Stormcloak victory; in spite of the many advantages it would provide them. Secondly, fronts = foes. The Dominion has shown it can barely conduct itself when fighting one enemy at a time. Now consider the sort of logistical burden it would be on them to fight the northwestern Redguards as well as the northeastern Nords.
*** That doesn't make any sense either. The Stormcloaks are at a stalemate with the Fourth Legion. Lore has mentioned there being up to 18 Legions, and even if you assume that there are fewer now that the Empire is in decline, there still has to be a minimum of three other Legions. The idea that the Thalmor are somehow scared of a group that can barely hold their own (the dossier mentions indirect aid to the Stormcloaks while not even hinting at aid for the Imperials) against an absolute minimum estimate of 1/4 of the Empire's total forces is silly. The fact that they tried to save him at Helgen (again, see dossier, they mention an exception to their hands-off policy specifically because Ulfric dying would increase the chances of an Imperial victory, there's no other way to interpret that) is also indicative that they aren't exactly quaking in their boots at Ulfric. Also, an independent Skyrim would have no border with any territory the Dominion controls, so they wouldn't even be able to fight them unless Cyrodiil or Hammerfell falls, ergo there's no second front for the Thalmor to worry about. The Thalmor want the conflict to remain indecisive, not because they're afraid of either side, but because they want both sides to waste as many soldiers and resources as possible.
** There aren't eighteen legions. There aren't even FOUR legions. Besides, if the Imperials were as dangerous as you say, one of their legions would be competent enough to deal with a ragtag rebellion while headed by one of the most brilliant military minds in Tamriel, don't you think? The Thalmor wouldn't want either side winning, because then they're facing a fully prepared army led by a PhysicalGod who can bend time, call storms, breath fire/ice/thunder, and rip your soul from your body without having to get anywhere near you, without even considering any other skills the Dragonborn might have, such as the ability to slaughter his way through a full army with a huge sword, sneak into a fortress and slit someone's gullet, burn an entire unit of soldiers to ashes, or put an arrow through the general's helmet from across the battlefield. A Skyrim led by Ulfric would be bad for the Thalmor, but they never considered the Dragonborn's appearance. Given the Thalmor's track record of incompetence and backstabbing, they probably would have issues holding their own against Skyrim's army even if it was just Ulfric and Galmor. If the Dragonborn was also there to boot the Thalmor in their saggy Elven testicles, they'd get their shit wrecked completely if they tried anything. Look at [[CurbStompBattle what happens whenever the Legion/Stormcloaks go up against a unit of Stormcloaks/Legionnaires during the game.]] Now replace the enemy soldiers with Thalmor peons and you have a fairly decent idea of what would happen.
** The idea that the Stormcloaks and the Legion are at a stalemate isn't entirely accurate, either. While the rebellion's been going on for a couple of years now, before the Battle of Whiterun it was only small scale raids and skirmishes, nothing with enough impact to say one side was really winning. Whiterun is where the war starts in earnest, and once that's decided, whichever side wins proceeds to steamroll the other side. And for all this talk of wasting soldiers and resources, generally speaking a battle-tested and battle-hardened army is going to perform better than a green one. The Thalmor couldn't hold Independent Hammerfell on their own. They won't stand a chance of holding Skyrim under Stormcloak rule.
** First of all, prove that there aren't at least four legions. Even ignoring that if there were fewer they likely would have renamed it, there is only one legion that is explicitly stated to have been destroyed in the Great War, and that was the 8th. Furthermore, as mentioned before, there are 18 legions mentioned in lore. The burden of proof is on you to say that the lore is inaccurate. Second, I've seen squads of Thalmor and Stormcloaks fighting, and the Thalmor won. "Kicking the Thalmor in their soggy testicles" is far easier said than done. As for a battle-hardened army being better, maybe, but numbers do play a role. Finally, you're comparing Skyrim to Hammerfell? A situation where the Thalmor were working off the ragged remains of their strength against a nation that had its army bolstered by large numbers of released legionnaires to a fully rested and rebuilt Thalmor machine against a nation that's just been devastated by civil war? The second treaty of Stros M'kai that ended the Hammerfell/Dominion war was signed in 4E 180. If you think that the Thalmor are still as weak as they were right after the Great War, then there's clearly an irreconcilable gap in our views.
*** One of the advantages men have over mer is that they reproduce considerably faster. So the empire and the provinces have recouped their losses considerably better than the Dominion. And while the civil war may have cost some casualties, remember, the Dominion carries out eugenic purges on it's on population, so they aren't exactly helping themselves, either. The Dominion isn't nearly as powerful as it wants everyone to think it is. It's projecting the illusion of power to bluff the world into fearing it. Ulfric's grown tired of the Mede policy of buying into the lie, bending over, and letting the Thalmor go in dry for thirty years while giving the wink-wink nudge-nudge to the provinces "don't worry guys, we're totally going to take it to these elves eventually". What's more, the empire's happy enough to shout the thalmor propaganda to keep the provinces in line. They probably could have taken the fight to them by now if they didn't want to keep them around as a scare tactic to maintain their own weakening grasp on power. Meanwhile, Ulfric's got a battle-tested army, willing allies on all sides- he's very clear that he has no intention of fighting this war alone, he wants to ally with the surrounding provinces, he just wants independent rule, and more importantly, leadership that isn't afraid to act- and more importantly than anything, he's got the dragonborn on his side(this is, of course, assuming a stormcloak aligned playthrough, otherwise the argument is moot). If I was the dominion I'd be shitting myself at the thought.
*** First of all, if you're going to try to claim that that the Empire is trying to use the threat of the Thalmor to maintain power, some evidence would be nice. As for willing allies, what willing allies are you talking about? Morrowind, who's people he confines to a slum? The Argonians, who he won't even let into his city? Cyrodiil, who he's just severed all ties with? High Rock, who he's already FAILED at making an alliance with? Which leaves...Hammerfell. That's it. Hardly "willing allies on all sides". And him allying with them isn't a sure thing, given that his general's response to being asked how to join them is "If you aren't a true son of Skyrim, you'd better walk away right now or things are gonna get ugly", hardly a diplomatic masterpiece. Eugenics purges are not confirmed to be real, and even if they are, that only affects the Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit can still breed like rabbits. As for the Dominion not being powerful, remember that the last time this group showed up, Tiber Septim, the beloved Talos himself, needed freaking Numidium to bring them to their knees. The combined forces of four nations being able to hold them off doesn't mean that an invasion is at all likely to succeed. The dragonborn is a plus for either side, so that's not a huge issue. Anyway, to bring this back to the original question, in the Dossier, the Thalmor explicitly state that an Imperial victory harms their position in Skyrim, and that they had to make an exception to their hands-off policy to save Ulfric. So no, the Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture. Given that the dossier states they tried to save Ulfric, regardless of whether you'd be shitting yourself at the thought, the Thalmor are obviously not afraid enough of him that they're willing to let him die. That says more about Ulfric's threat level than any amount of bluster. On a final note, we have gotten very far from the original question, and the headscratchers page is probably not the best place for page-spanning debates. So if it's amenable to you, I believe we should take this to the forums.
** And I've seen outnumbered Stormcloaks hand Imperials their asses on a silver plate. What the hell's your point? And yes the Imperials are using the threat of the Thalmor to maintain power in Skyrim, primarily due to the fact that it's been 30 fucking years since the war and they've done nothing to improve their position. Hell, the entire pretense for them maintaining their hold on Skyrim is the Thalmor threat, regardless of the fact that when Ulfric wins, the Thalmor are thrown out of the country. There may not be an outright admission of them using it, but it's obvious they use fear of them to an extent. As for ties, Hammerfell is likely the second strongest human kingdom after Skyrim, so its a big bonus. And the others would simply join with him out of convenience. There has never been a political and military alliance broken off simply because one of the nations didn't like the other. Hell, look the Allies in WWII. Russia was in on there, weren't they? Also, THIS DOMINION IS NOT THAT DOMINION. And there is nothing to say they maintain a similar level of power. Finally, the dossier also states that a Stormcloak victory harms their interest also. So that's probably the reason why they're willing to let Ulfric die in the prologue - he already dealt a great deal of pain for the Empire, but him getting too strong is something they'd rather avoid. After all, it's not like the Stormcloak rebellion would die with Ulfric. Hell, it's not even the case when Windhelm is stormed and their powerbase is undone.
*** Alright, this is obviously going way off-topic, so instead of rehashing everything, I'll quote the damned Dossier directly. "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim." Right there. The Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture, and any intervention was done to prevent his death. Now, for the rest of it, why don't we do like I suggested earlier, and take it to the forums, which are much more conducive to a back and forth debate.
*** If you pay attention and do the Imperial playthrough, Tullius basically says that the ONLY reason the Stormcloak rebellion is anything other than a minor nuisance is because the Empire isn't fully committed to the war in Skyrim. He complains that he has to fight the war with only ONE legion, because the others are in Cyrodil watching the border with the Dominion, and preparing for the next war. The Empire could steamroll over Ulfric's little rebellion if they didn't have the Thalmor to watch out for.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The Al'kir and Whiterun]]
* How come those two Alkir weren't allowed into Whiterun? Is Whiterun anti-Alkir or something?
** My guess is that the guards thought they were troublemakers.
*** Basically this; the Al'akir are a group of foreign police who are storming into Whiterun without any foreword from the men who sent them, and refusing to tell the authorities who they were looking for. The guards had every right to refuse them entry into the city.
** This is part of the guards' jobs. You don't run into it regularly, but the most important job of the gate guards in any city is to checkout anyone suspicious. The Al'kir definitely count, especially as one of their number was already arrested and thrown in jail for getting caught doing something illegal. The Whiterun guards are doing their jobs by questioning the Al'kir as to what they're up to and throwing them out if they think they're going to cause trouble, which they really are.
** For the same reason the guards stopped '''you''' when you first came to Whiterun: No non-citizens of Whiterun are allowed into the wall with the Dragons about. And considering the two Alik'r show up ''at the same time'' as a dragon has been spotted near the western watchtower, the guards are ever more keen to enforce the Jarl's orders.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Thalmor and the College]]
* Why is there a thalmor ambassador in the college of winterhold? At the start of the game, the city is stormcloak-aligned, so it is unlikely the government forced the mages. The thalmor has disdain for the magic of the college, so he isn't there to study. All we know is that he is an advisor to the arch-mage, but it is never made clear what he advises on (considering his opinion on the studies at the college, it is unlikely to be related to that.)
** The College maintains independent ties with Cyrodiil and the Summerset Isles.
** Furthermore, although they look down upon the magic practiced there, the college is pretty much the only Magical hub in the whole of Skyrim, and they ''could'' stumble upon something of interest to the Thalmor (which you do). ''Not'' having an ambassador there would just be silly.
** It does make sense from the perspective of the Thalmor, yes, but why did the college want him there? If you're trying to not piss off the native populace, inviting their worst enemy to live with you is not a very good idea.
** The College ''doesn't'' want him. It's made pretty clear that none of the College's professors trust him at all, but it's more than likely they didn't have a choice in the matter. When a representative of the world's most insidious and ruthless secret police force shows up and says, "I'm going to hang out and... observe things," you don't refuse him if you have anything remotely akin to self-preservation instincts.
** Better the devil you know than the one you don't. The Thalmor are ''going'' to spy on the College; better to have their agent out in the open where you can control at least some of what he sees than wonder which of your initiates is actually a Thalmor spy.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Ondolemar]]
* In Markarth, you can meet the local Thalmor Commander Ondolemar. You can recieve a quest to prove that a local citizen is worshipping Talos in secret. There's nothing too unusual about this... besides the fact that there's a shrine to Talos in the middle of the city, in rather good maintenence to boot. Is Ondolemar being hypocritical or is he just that blind?
** Well, "root out Talos worship" seems to be code for "Pace around the keep all day and hire strangers who just happen to walk in and are plainly wearing amulets of Talos to do my job for me." So, yea, probably that blind. Or lazy.
** Seeing as the city already has heavy Stormcloak support, shutting down the altar may lead to a revolution (backed by the Silver-Bloods, who are Stormcloak supporters and have their own army). He probably just doesn't want to get torn apart by the angry masses, but still wants to pretend he did something to appease his superiors.
** Ondolemar strikes me as the [[ComicStrip/{{Dilbert}} Wally]] of the Thalmor. He chills in the keep, chats up the Jarl, eats good food, drinks good booze, writes up a report to Elenwen and periodically hires amoral mercenaries to poke around and find Talos worshippers and pass that off as his quota for the month.
*** Even if you do his quest, nothing happens to the secret Talos worshiper you gather evidence about. Seems possible that he's just pretending to do his job. There's a point where, if you did help him, [[spoiler: he'll provide a distraction at the Thalmor embassy just because you ask him to cause a scene without giving him much of a reason.]] I got the impression that he was with the Thalmor just because pretending to do the job was easier and let him live better than anything else he might have done instead.
** Another possibility is that he knows about the shrine, but leaves it alone as bait. That way, assuming he has somebody watch it from a distance, he can quickly get the names of everybody visiting it - IE (most likely) Talos-worshippers.
** Ondolemar even shows up at your wedding if you helped him. He's probably not such a bad dude and more of a PunchClockVillain.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Planets and the Divines]]
* The most commonly presented theory regarding the cosmology of Mundus is that the eight planets represent the original eight divines. But how would that work? The eight divines are not a universal constant. Their members used to be part of two completely different, larger pantheons. And, they probably aren't the most widely worshipped either, with valenwood, elseweyr and summerset now revering the elven pantheon, and the akaviri probably having different gods. Why don't Syrabane, Phynaster,Y'ffre, Diagna and others have their own planets? Did the cosmology of the universe suddenly change when the eight divines were founded? But if so, why didn't it change again when they became the nine divines? (and again when they rebecame the eight divines).
** Long answer coming up, so I've divided it into separate paragraphs:
*** First, a bit of clarification on what exactly the eight planets are. They are the planes of those Aedra who had the most impact in the creation of Nirn, and who continue to exert the most influence over it. According to the series' accepted creation myth, there were actually many more Aedra in the beginning, who were tricked by Lorkhan into giving up their divine power to give birth to the mortal plane. Some fled the creation when they felt their divinity slipping away,[[note]]Such as Magnus, whose exit punched the hole in Aetherius otherwise known as the sun[[/note]] while others remained and gave some or all of themselves in fashioning the rest of the world. Those who retained a part of their divinity occupy their own planes of existence in Aetherius, which the mortal mind registers as the eight planets.
*** The identity of which eight Aedra occupy these planes is a subject of in-universe debate. That's exactly why the different pantheons exist. The "Eight Divines" was merely the name St. Alessia came up with for her new religion, which coincidentally coincided with the number of planets around Nirn. Regardless of what names they're given, it's a fact that there ''are'' eight Aedra influencing Nirn from above, and they have remained constant, which is why Nirn has always had the elements that is has, such as time,[[note]]Akatosh[[/note]] rain,[[note]]Kynareth[[/note]] life and death,[[note]]Arkay[[/note]] etc. Those planets have always been there, and have always remained there.
*** The various races each have different philosophical outlooks on the world, and thus ascribe different gods to these elements. Some gods might be redundant, some might be false, and some may even exist within Nirn itself.[[note]]Talos, perhaps?[[/note]] The key point to take out of all this is that there are eight constant divine forces in Mundus, it's just that people have seen them differently throughout history, sort of like how real-world polytheistic religions attribute different natural occurrences to multiple gods, while a monotheistic religion attributes them to one god. The problem, in short, is simply semantics.
** According to Varieties of faith, most of the religions have more than eight gods, ranging between 10 and 12.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Did Hadvar get promoted for no reason?]]
* The first time you see him he wears regular armor, the next time you see him hes wearing Officer's armor. What did he do to get promoted? Escape Helgen and hide out in his uncle's house?
** IIRC, he didn't change armor. And usually by the time the Dragonborn meets him again in the Legion questline, enough time has passed for him to logically be promoted.
** Most likely, the reason Hadvar and Ralof get promoted following Helgen is that they managed to get out at all. It's also vaguely implied that they would have been up for promotion sooner or later, anyway.
** The Imperial Officer's Helmet has a crest on top, the standard Imperial heavy armor helmet doesn't, and Hadvar's helmet doesn't have a crest. He didn't get promoted, he just switched his light armor out for heavy armor.
*** Hadvar outright SAYS he was promoted when you meet him in a mission after the battle for Whiterun, and he's now in a command position for the first time. Hadvar still wears the studded leather armor during "The Jagged Crown". So most likely he was promoted after completing this.
** Tullius knows Hadvar by name in the intro, and surviving Helgen is considered impressive by both sides of the civil war. Presumably some Legion officer bit it in Helgen (like that [[{{Jerkass}} captain]]) and Hadvar got their job.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Why is Keening still on Tamriel?]]
* Unlike most artifacts, keening doesn't have an innate owner-switching ability and it is one of the most legendary artifacts associated with the nerevarine. So why didn't he/she take it with her/him to Akavir?
** Maybe The Nerevarine took Sunder and Wraithguard instead and just didn't like shortswords. Or maybe the Nerevarine didn't take any of them and the temple took the tools, which were lost during the Argonian invasion.
** Keening is easily carried, as well as being incredibly powerful, so it seems incredibly short-sighted to not bring it along anyway.
** Maybe the Nerevarine came back at some point in the last 200 years and didn't tell anyone. Alternatively, given that their actions lead to Morrowind ending up as a smoldering crater, the short sighted explanation works well enough.
** Why WOULDN'T it still be there? Powerful weapons though they may be, the last guy who used them blew his whole race up. If I were in the Nerevarine's position, I'd dump the blasted things in the lava as I flew away. It's entirely reasonable to think he left them where they wouldn't be easily obtained in case some damned fool decided to try making himself a god (poor arniel. I will summon you, and laugh)
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Dagoth and the Heart of Lorkhan]]
* If the heart of Lorkhan survived the end of morrowind, how did Dagoth lose his powers so quickly? It took the almsivi several hundred years to really start losing notable amounts of power.
** His connection to the heart was cut off, he lost all the power he was getting from it immediately. The Tribunal also lost whatever remained of their connection at the same time.
[[/folder]]


[[folder: Telvanni heirs]]
* How is there a telvanni heir? Or, more to the point; do the telvanni even have heirs? In morrowind, they didn't really seem like they had any form of organized government, being just a collection of uber-mages, each with their own tower. In that game, becoming the telvanni leader meant challenging the old one. So, there doesn't really seem to be any room for nobles with inherited titles.
** Think of it as a family tradition: there is great pressure on the family's daughters and sons to join House Telvanni and excel, as their parents did, and thus they are 'heirs' in an informal if not formal manner.
** That's supported by House Telvanni not existing anymore. The argonians destroyed it. The descendants of whoever was left would consider themselves heirs to the tradition and legacy.
*** Except it isn't actually proven that House Telvanni ''was'' destroyed by the Argonians (they certainly didn't sweep over and kill everyone). The Tenvanni journal was written ''during'' Red Year, by someone that obviously did not know all that he was talking about, as Brelyna Maryon is living proof that at least one more heir to House Telvanni survived.
*** Which was in part what confused me. I thought that meant we were to assume that Brelyna was just a member of low rank, while Brandyl was of higher rank ( a descendent of the arch-mage or a(n arch)magister)
** Dragonborn (re)introduced Neloth. While I'm pretty sure he has a few personality complexes of his own, he does imply Telvanni (As well as the other two houses) are very much around. Though he admits being part of the house doesn't amount to much, he claims one could be considered royalty. Though he's not an altogether reliable source, especially since most of Raven Rock just can't stand him.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The Midden]]
* What is the deal with the midden in college of winterhold? It seems to be the same size of the rest of the college, is decorated with skulls, heavily damaged, infested with the undead and the location of several powerful daedric artifacts(the hand and the atronach forge) to boot. It evidently wasn't destroyed by the flood, as everyone says that the college was practically untouched. It also seems unlikely that it was the augur, as he doesn't seem all that aggressive, and it is doubtful a college of researching mages would just up and abandon something like the atroach forge without good reason.
** It's a sewer. Like many sewers in video games, it's inhabited entirely by people who don't want to be seen. All the projects down there were secret, probably unapproved by the College. They're still down there because it'd take too much effort to dismantle them.
** Except that a) it is fairly explicitly a former part of the college and b) the atronach forge was not constructed by the mages of winterhold.
** Of course it's a former part of the College. [[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/midden It's the College's sewer]], likely built when the structure's foundations were first laid. As for the origins of the Atronach Forge, it appears to have some Dwarven components (the doors on the offering box, for example), so make of that what you will.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: The prisoner carts coming from Ivaarstead]]
* So Ulfric is captured by the Imperials, and is taken to Helgen. In the beginning when you are in the cart, it seems you are coming from Ivarstead. Isn't that entire area Stormcloak territory? How did they manage to sneak Ulfric through such a hostile place? Theres a Stormcloak camp literally a mile away.
** Said camp has only a few people in it. And look around Skyrim while you're wandering around. 90% of the time, there's no one in sight. And this isn't an age of cellphones and text messaging. Even if someone did witness a the ambush, they'd have to run all the way to the nearest Stormcloak camp, the Stormcloaks would have to organize a rescue force, and the rescue force would have to run all the way out there to where the ambush happened. That would take time, and by then the Imperials would be long gone.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: What's going on in Morrowind?]]
* In Windhelm you find a bunch of Dunmer living in poverty. After hearing about what happened to Morrowind and seeing this, I thought that the Argonian invasion and the fall of the Ministry of Truth had happened pretty recently... but I looked it up on the UESP and it turns out both events happened almost two hundred years ago. I imagine the ecosystem is stuffed because the eruption wouldn't have let the wildlife survive, but surely 200 years is more than enough time for Vvardenfell's flora to reclaim the land? And while it's understandable enough that Morrowind was so devastated by Red Mountain's eruption that it had no army to fight the Argonians with, that doesn't tell us what's going on with Morrowind two hundred years later. When you talk to one of the Dunmer in Windhelm, he implies that moving back to Morrowind IS an option, and he doesn't make any reference to an Argonian occupation making that impossible. So why are there still so many Dunmer refugees in Windhelm and Skyrim two hundred years after the event? What are the Argonians doing, is Morrowind just their territory and they've left the natives otherwise alone or are they keeping Dunmer as slaves, or what?
** From what I gathered, the argonians basically swept over the land, destroying all major cities, killing the entire population of the house Telvanni, before retreating to the territory of house Dres. They could go back, yes, but they would need to rebuild pretty much everything, as well as being defenseless if the argonians chose to attack again.
** what happened, and this is now CONFIRMED by Dragonborn, is this. about forty years AFTER the Oblivion Crisis, the Baar Dau crashed into Vvardenfell, causing Red Mountain to erupt and ruin most of the island, and blighting much of solstheim and the mainland. Following this, the argonians attacked the weakened province, and conquered some of Morrowind's territory. Red Mountain remains highly active (more so than in the Nevevarine's time) and as such, Vvardenfell is sparsely settled, but SOMEWHAT habitable. Solstheim and Morrowind proper are livable, but with some ash storms that used to just be Vvardenfell's problem. and house telvanni still exists
[[/folder]]

[[folder: People being where they shouldn't]]
* Can someone please explain to me why there are two Thalmor guards still living in Understone Keep in Markarth after I take the city for the Stormcloak. In the same room with a STORMCLOAK OFFICER? Outside of bugs, anyway. What, are they Prisoners of War or something? On that same note, why is the Emperor's cousin still living in Solitude despite the city being taken for Ulfric? Especially if I've killed of the Dark Brotherhood, and she has no in game reason for being there? She should be kept as a hostage or should be sent back to the Empire! And also, why is Maro still in Dragon's Bridge? The Emperor's personal bodyguard should be dead if the Stormcloaks have won!
** I'm pretty sure the Thalmor being in Understone is a bug; they were gone when I captured the Reach. As for Maro, you could say him and his group are one of the groups of hold outs Galmar and Ulfric told you about along with the camps dotting the map and that the Stormcloaks are just waiting them out. The real reason, of course, is that he's vital to the Dark Brotherhood questline, which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense the way it's played out if you complete it after winning the Civil War for the Stormcloaks.
** Okay, that's fine. But if Maro's a hold out, then why didn't they just make it so that he switches position from Dragon's Bridge to the Haafingar Imperial camp or something if the Civil War ends in Stormcloak territory? There are several Stormcloak guards pacing just outside his outpost. Or is he supposed to be a POW by this point?
** As the above responder noted, the Dark Brotherhood quest as a whole doesn't make much narrative sense if played out after a Stormcloak victory. You might as well ask why the Emperor deigns to travel right into the heart of a hostile separatist nation, into the very capital which has recently suffered a massively destructive attack by said separatists, seemingly just to have a dinner prepared by a good chef. As for why this is, it's because it would take considerable effort to restructure the quest to accommodate all these different factors. It's far simpler to just leave things as is. That way, there are no discrepancies between quest triggers, you don't need to program new NPC travel paths, record new dialogue, or spend countless hours debugging what is now essentially a wholly different quest.
*** The Emperor's presence makes sense. The game has no sense of the passage of time but in wars between brothers, you often have outreach between the powers that remain and the new powers to foster peace. You can see many examples throughout history. The Stormcloaks got what they wanted, autonomy and freedom of worship. They'd be idiots not to reestablish trade relations with the Empire. And killing the Emperor after the end of the war would be a sure way to sabotage that. If anything, the Emperor has more to fear from the Thalmor and his own court after this turn of events.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: No one saw Alduin appraching]]
* How the hell did NO ONE see Alduin coming? Dude is huge and Helgen is a pretty large town, someone HAD to have seen him.
** He flew over a mountaintop into the valley where Helgen was located. Anyone on the other side of the ridge wouldn't have been wouldn't be able to outpace a rapidly flying dragon to warn others, so of course he'd surprise everyone there.
** Alduin my be huge but humans aren't hardwired to look up for threats. He's also ''fast'', and by the time anyone would hve seen him and started to issue a warning, he would have already attacked Helgen. Not to mention everyone is going to either be watching the execution or watching the roads or woods for Stormcloak rescue parties. No one's going to be looking up for a dragon.
** To underline the above: remember that before Alduin shows up, everyone ''knows'' that dragons are long extinct. No one has any reason whatsoever to expect an attack from the skies.
*** Alvor says that he saw ''something'' fly by, and even says it looked like a dragon, but didn't believe it until you confirmed it, as Dragons were thought to have been a myth until now.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Could Alduin attack Oblivion?]]
* Alduin was obviously a threat to Mundus, and his rampage in Sovngarde made it clear Aetherius was also under threat by him. But would he have chowed on the Planes of Oblivion as well, or would those have been relatively safe refuges from his wrath?
** Presumably he doesn't want to pick a fight with a divine enemy. He likely picks Sovngarde because it was Shor/Lorkan's realm, and Shor/Lorkan is dead/in no shape to fight a demigod. Each realm of Oblivion, however, is ruled by a very much alive daedric prince who's all too willing to get their hands dirty in direct combat. Mehrunes Dagon put up a damn good fight against the Avatar of Akatosh at the end of the Oblivion Crisis, and in the Isles, Sheogorath demonstrated the ability to throw the planet at people (that's what he's doing when he teleports you, you're not falling). Alduin wants no part of a fight with these guys.
*** This is completely off topic, but... throwing a friggin' planet at you? That's got to be the most badass trick this troper has ever seen, and he's seen quite a few.
*** He tried to throw a moon at Vivec (god and city); [[http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Baar_Dau it didn't work]]. (Until Vivec ran out of power for his "pause" spell, and then it suddenly did.)
** Alduin is also related to Akatosh, an Aedric spirit. Presumably it is easier for him to access Sorvngarde (In Aetherius) than any plane of Oblivion.
** Alduin is a derivative of Akatosh just as Talos is the derivative of Shor who is in turn the derivative of Lorkhan. It's probably far easier for him to enter a plane ultimately Aedric in nature (insofar as Lorkhan status as the demiurge who created Mundus would make him such, given the fact he is literally the embodiment of what remains of Padomay) than one of Oblivion. All the same, I highly doubt that any of the Daedric princes could fight him, as one of Akatosh's avatars managed to defeat Mehrunes Dagon in his full form and Alduin is likely even stronger than that. Add to that also that his destiny states that only a Dragonborn can touch him.
** According to some of the more obscure, Kirkbride-written text, it looks like yes, Alduin could invade and take on an entire Daedric realm by his lonesome, although back when he was actually doing his job as the World Eater instead of ruling Nirn like a scaly Hitler. Apparently he was able to take on and defeat a Daedric Prince (IIRC, Dagon himself).
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Why don't dragons use a greater variety of shouts?]]
* For the most part, it's fire breath, frost breath, and I'm decently sure I've seen animal aliegance once, not counting Alduin's mist and meteor shouts. Why no storm call, elemental fury, marked for death, slow time, or everybody's favorite, unrelenting force?
** It's most likely just gameplay balancing. Fighting dragons that can call bolts of electric death down upon you, attack you faster than you can react, negate your armor and health bonuses, or effortlessly blast you off the side of a mountain for a one-hit kill would be a ''bitch''. In-universe, its sort of implied that the more powerful shouts require a more powerful dragon to perform, hence why only Alduin can call down meteoric destruction or resurrect his fallen kin. This also ties in with why dragons such as Odahviing respect the Dragonborn--being able to call upon a lightning storm isn't just impressive to mortals, it's impressive to dragons themselves. Of course, if you really want to tangle with Shout-wielding dragons, there are probably numerous mods that allow for this.
*** OP here. I play on the console so mods are unfortunately out of my reach. And while I get the reasoning and figured that was probably part of it, my mileage is going to vary. One of the most common complaints about the game is that dragons are too easy to take down. Adding a greater variety of shouts would make for a more interesting challenge, show a greater level of intelligence, and do more to show that [[OurDragonsAreDifferent their dragons aren't just big fire and frost breathing lizards]], they're reality warpers who alter existence by yelling at it very loudly.
*** Some of the dragons fight pretty smart. They'll fly and strafe with breath weapons and only land in hard to reach places. Some of these shouts would actually make these dragons insurmountable. If they could slow time, freeze you would ice form, become ethereal long enough to get away, or bend your will, you'd be screwed.
** Dragons who have access to all the Shouts would be monstrous opponents. While it was available, the Dragon Combat Overhaul mod was a nightmarishly difficult mod because the dragons in it used a variety of Shouts to utterly wreck you, on top of a bunch of other elements that made them hard to fight. Problem was, a lot of people felt that this made them too hard to kill, and greatly reduced the fun in fighting them. Bethesda prevented the dragons from having a wide variety of Shouts because that would make them impossible to defeat and they wanted the gameplay to remain fun without being frustrated.
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Brelas and infiltrating the Embassy]]
* Wait....so if you cause a distraction at the Thalmor party using Brelas (The Servant) and the merchant Nord, she is taken down to the dungeon. But when you get down there shes there BEFORE you. Did the guards drag her down there while ignoring the cries of me slaughtering the other guards?
** [[FridgeHorror Screams are likely]] [[ColdBloodedTorture a common occurrence]] [[FridgeHorror in Thalmor facilities.]] [[ItsProbablyNothing Perhaps the guards simply figured someone else was detained.]] [[TheGuardsMustBeCrazy It's not like they anticipated anyone attacking the place.]] [[WhatAnIdiot After all, who would honestly be that stupid?]] Alternatively, [[HandWave the walls are really thick and sound-proofed]] or [[FailedASpotCheck they brought her down later, but didn't notice you engaging the other guards.]]
*** GREAT explanation, I applaud you for your hard work.
** The prison is located in Elenwen's Solar, which is a separate building. You get taken into the kitchen and recover your gear, likely take a few minutes to get it loaded and sorted out, and then move into the back areas of the main embassy building. The guards would have taken her outside and into the second building during that time.
** Wouldn't ''you''?

** [[ANaziByAnyOtherName You may as well have asked why people hate the Nazis so bad; because that's essentially what the Thalmor is. Nazi elves.]]
*** There is one difference between the Nazis and the Thalmor: the Nazis' core idea doesn't have that looming possibility of being partially right. Of course, that doesn't excuse the Thalmor's ''Alt''meri supremacy ideals, and it seems most members of the Thalmor aren't even ''aware'' of the whole 'actively attempting to destroy the very idea of humanity in order to lead to the total destruction of the world' thing (for those that don't get why that isn't an unambigiously bad thing, the point of destroying the world for the Thalmor isn't to destroy the world, as Mehrunes Dagon has it, but rather for spirits - ''all'' spirits, including those that were Mannish before the idea of Man was destroyed - to get back to how things were before Mundus was created, when they were eternal).

[[folder: Why are the Thalmor so hated?]]
* They aren't very nice and they are very Nazi-like, but I mean the Stormcloaks are massives racists and the Imperials are kinda excessive in their methods. Why are the Thalmor made out to be such bad guys?
** The Stormcloaks just want non-humans out of Skyrim, but don't care if they go on about their lives elsewhere. The Thalmor want to erase all non-Altmer races and cultures, especially humans (and even the more cosmopolitan, "imperialized" Altmer), from existence.
** Are you questioning why people in universe dislike the Thalmor, Or the fanbase? People in-universe hate them because they've banned the worship of Talos (the Jesus-figure in Skyrim), are actively waging a bloody and horrific war against pretty much everyone who isn't Thalmor, and are storming around Imperial-controlled Skyrim as a Gestapo-esque police force unperson-ing people they don't like.. Being a racist and/or 'a bit' excessive is preferable to wanting to exterminate everyone in Tamriel who isn't Thalmor.
** There's a different between being racists and wanting to commit wholesale genocide. The Nords may hate the non-Nords, but they aren't going to actively kill them all. The Thalmors are doing just that with every non-Thalmor they meet, and that's why the Thalmors are hated.
** Are you fricking serious? The worst the Stormcloaks do is have a relatively small but vocal minority of racist members and a leader who favors Nords over non-Nords and committed one massacre against a hostile enemy force in Markarth. They don't actively try to purge people they don't like, and some are even quite reasonable. The Thalmor routinely committed mass purges in Valenwood, practice a eugenics program where they kill nine out every ten newborns, launched a war of aggression against the Empire, maintains an active secret police force that hunts down, captures, tortures, and murders anyone worshipping a god they dislike, has made it clear that they're preparing for another war witht he Empire, covertly supported the entire Stormcloak Rebellion to weaken the Empire to that end, is ''actively attempting to destroy the very idea of humanity in order to lead to the total destruction of the world'', [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and they have silly helmets]]. Why do you ''think'' they get so intensely hated on?
** If you play as a non-nord looking to join up with the stormcloaks, you can ask Ulfric and Galmar why they're alright with you joining. They explain, more or less, that their issue isn't so much with race(that's a part of it, but by no means the main part) as it is with loyalty. The reason Ulfric's so apathetic towards the plight of the dark elves in his city is because they're not doing anything to help his cause, not simply that they're elves. On the other hand, the Thalmor are hardcore mer supremacist. With the stormcloaks, you get a few racial slurs, sweeping generalizations, but on the whole so long as you prove your worth, they'll treat you with respect. With Thalmor, if you aren't pure bred altmer, you're a tool that will one day outlive its usefulness and be put down.
** The Thalmor are only allowed within Skyrim because of the Imperial presence, whom they don't exactly have a good relationship with either. The Emperor certainly does not like them, since the first time the whole mess started, it ended with the rolling of 100 of the Emperor's finest guards' heads. The Empire also lost the war with them and had to sign a humiliating decree. The difference between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials is really that the Stormcloaks isn't shy about saying it.
** You, uh...you literally just described them as "very Nazi-like", and you're wondering why they're hated?
*** If the Internet has taught us anything, it's that the Nazis aren't nearly as hated as we wish they were.
** The Thalmor are hated because they don't tolerate Talos worship, when ironically, Tiber Septim was anything but tolerant. He distracted the Altmer with peace talks while secretly planning to conquer them, in his grand scheme to unite the world under his rule. Of course, he never asked, or cared, if anyone didn't want to be part of his empire. Over time, Tiber Septim became Talos, and was worshiped. So to the Thalmor, Talos is just a false god and a tyrant who killed their ancestors. To them, worshiping Talos is heresy for a good reason, because it's like worshiping a golden calf. The Thalmor don't seek genocide or to end the world. That's just non-canon nonsense. But they do see themselves as superior and more fit to guide the world than men, who in their eyes haven't done a great job.
*** Esbern does actually say that the Thalmor want the world to end. Or at least, "on their terms" during "A Cornered Rat."
*** The Thalmor seeking to destroy the world IS Canon. Have you not played the Mage questline? or read there notes?
*** Plus, WordOfGod confirms it. Damn Thalmor spies, infiltrating TvTropes.
[[/folder]]

*** As soon as the civil war started, they likely knew their next student would be there, and until they met the last Dragonborn, there's no need to worry, because prophecy prevents them from dying, since they're needed for it. So, you were their plan for continuing. And then you killed their leader. YouBastard.

** The [=NPC=] you didn't assist was instead accompanied by Erwin Schrödinger.

** Dragons are the children/born from Akatosh's (The Draconic God of Time) soul, thereby making them literally represent the concept of immortality, infinity and eternity. Dragonrend is designed specifically to force the complete opposite upon their mind and souls hence it forcing it to land as result of hearing a [[BrownNote Brown Note]]