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** You know how in Star Trek, when a ship's power goes out, it stops instead of coasting or spinning? My theory is that this is the External Inertial Dampers kicking in, thus preventing a ship from drifting or spinning out of control. Of course, Trek being Trek, this will fail occasionally for plot reasons.
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* What bugs This Troper in the 2009 movie is that red matter. Spock created it to save the Romulans by destroying the star that was... whatever. The problem is that if he intended to destroy JUST ONE STAR and he only needed JUST ONE DROP of the stuff why did he have a giant ball of death on his ship, instead of a prepared ampule ready to be launched at a moments notice (somehow having a giant ball of death seems both impractical and ''illogical''). Another thing is that BigBad travels back through time and instead saving his homeworld he hides and broods for 25 years and decides to take revenge for something that has yet to happen (admittedly from his perspective it ''did'' happen), and even comments that he waited 25 years for his revenge and that he can't even lead a normal life when he spent the last 25 years brooding and planning his revenge..
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* What bugs This Troper in the 2009 movie is that red matter. Spock created it to save the Romulans by destroying the star that was... whatever. The problem is that if he intended to destroy JUST ONE STAR and he only needed JUST ONE DROP of the stuff why did he have a giant ball of death on his ship, instead of a prepared ampule ready to be launched at a moments notice (somehow having a giant ball of death seems both impractical and ''illogical''). Another thing is that BigBad travels back through time and instead saving his homeworld he hides and broods for 25 years and decides to take revenge for something that has yet to happen (admittedly from his perspective it ''did'' happen), and even comments that he waited 25 years for his revenge and that he can't even lead a normal life when he spent the last 25 years brooding and planning his revenge..revenge.
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Merging WMG from a WMG that was shoehorned into a previous question.
Changed line(s) 323,324 (click to see context) from:
* What bugs This Troper in the 2009 movie is that red matter. Spock created it to save the Romulans by destroying the star that was... whatever. The problem is that if he intended to destroy JUST ONE STAR and he only needed JUST ONE DROP of the stuff why did he have a giant ball of death on his ship, instead of a prepared ampule ready to be launched at a moments notice (somehow having a giant ball of death seems both impractical and ''illogical''). Another thing is that BigBad travels back through time and instead saving his homeworld he hides and broods for 25 years and decides to take revenge for something that has yet to happen (admittedly from his perspective it ''did'' happen), and even comments that he waited 25 years for his revenge and that he can't even lead a normal life when he spent the last 25 years brooding and planning his revenge. Another ItJustBugsMe moment is, after Kirk wakes up on the Vega Delta ice planet, he is hunted by some alien dog-thing, and just before it bites Kirk's head off, a thing (resembling a red FreudWasRight with fangs and claws) pops from the ground, kills the dog, ''throws it away'' and starts hunting a human about one quarter of the size of the dog (instead of just, you know, eating the ready one course dog-meal).
** 1. That could be the minimum amount it was possible to refine, and/or the big red ball could be more stable than smaller amounts. 2. Really, really pissed off, remember? 3. Maybe it's tasted human before and liked it. If you bite into a Lima Bean, and realize there's an ice cream cone nearby, wouldn't you spit it out? Or, more simply, it really wanted Kirk in the first place and just didn't want the other thing to get it.
** 1. That could be the minimum amount it was possible to refine, and/or the big red ball could be more stable than smaller amounts. 2. Really, really pissed off, remember? 3. Maybe it's tasted human before and liked it. If you bite into a Lima Bean, and realize there's an ice cream cone nearby, wouldn't you spit it out? Or, more simply, it really wanted Kirk in the first place and just didn't want the other thing to get it.
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* What bugs This Troper in the 2009 movie is that red matter. Spock created it to save the Romulans by destroying the star that was... whatever. The problem is that if he intended to destroy JUST ONE STAR and he only needed JUST ONE DROP of the stuff why did he have a giant ball of death on his ship, instead of a prepared ampule ready to be launched at a moments notice (somehow having a giant ball of death seems both impractical and ''illogical''). Another thing is that BigBad travels back through time and instead saving his homeworld he hides and broods for 25 years and decides to take revenge for something that has yet to happen (admittedly from his perspective it ''did'' happen), and even comments that he waited 25 years for his revenge and that he can't even lead a normal life when he spent the last 25 years brooding and planning his revenge. Another ItJustBugsMe moment is, after Kirk wakes up on the Vega Delta ice planet, he is hunted by some alien dog-thing, and just before it bites Kirk's head off, a thing (resembling a red FreudWasRight with fangs and claws) pops from the ground, kills the dog, ''throws it away'' and starts hunting a human about one quarter of the size of the dog (instead of just, you know, eating the ready one course dog-meal).
revenge..
** 1. That could be the minimum amount it was possible to refine, and/or the big red ball could be more stable than smaller amounts. 2. Really, really pissed off,remember? 3. Maybe it's tasted human before and liked it. If you bite into a Lima Bean, and realize there's an ice cream cone nearby, wouldn't you spit it out? Or, more simply, it really wanted Kirk in the first place and just didn't want the other thing to get it.remember?
** 1. That could be the minimum amount it was possible to refine, and/or the big red ball could be more stable than smaller amounts. 2. Really, really pissed off,
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** Maybe it's tasted human before and liked it. If you bite into a Lima Bean, and realize there's an ice cream cone nearby, wouldn't you spit it out? Or, more simply, it really wanted Kirk in the first place and just didn't want the other thing to get it.
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** I think TheyJustDidntCare.
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** Doesn't excuse this. Building a starship on the surface is beyond stupid. In the entire pre-2009 canon, the Intrepid-class (e.g. ''Voyager'') is the first Federation starship of any reasonable size able to land on a planet. That's 100+ years more technology than ST:2009, and in a ship maybe a quarter the size of the ST:2009 Enterprise. There are hundreds of good reasons why building a starship on a planet surface is ludicrously inefficient, and also why any design which allows for planet-side construction results in a noticeably sub-par startship (i.e. design compromises to allow for building/flight deep in a gravity well are severely non-optimal for space travel). It's a gratuitous break from canon (and logic), all for the sake of a single shot, not even plot-relevant. Yeah, it's not even CriticalResearchFailure, it's TheyJustDidntCare.
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** Doesn't excuse this. Building a starship on the surface is beyond stupid. In the entire pre-2009 canon, the Intrepid-class (e.g. ''Voyager'') is the first Federation starship of any reasonable size able to land on a planet. That's 100+ years more technology than ST:2009, and in a ship maybe a quarter the size of the ST:2009 Enterprise. There are hundreds of good reasons why building a starship on a planet surface is ludicrously inefficient, and also why any design which allows for planet-side construction results in a noticeably sub-par startship (i.e. design compromises to allow for building/flight deep in a gravity well are severely non-optimal for space travel). It's a gratuitous break from canon (and logic), all for the sake of a single shot, not even plot-relevant. Yeah, it's not even CriticalResearchFailure, it's TheyJustDidntCare.
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How about the fact that those Starships are really, really heavy? The Enterprise, at least from the specs this troper could find on beta memory wiki, weights 190,000 metric tons. Can Starfleet tech accelerate that much mass to the 11 kilometers per second required to escape Earth's gravity without damaging the surrounding area as that would require a lot of force? Second observation, their tech also needs to be able to compensate for stuff like drag if it spends any time going through atmosphere since that ship might not be the most aerodynamic thing ever constructed.
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* How about the fact that those Starships are really, really heavy? The Enterprise, at least from the specs this troper could find on beta memory wiki, weights 190,000 metric tons. Can Starfleet tech accelerate that much mass to the 11 kilometers per second required to escape Earth's gravity without damaging the surrounding area as that would require a lot of force? Second observation, their tech also needs to be able to compensate for stuff like drag if it spends any time going through atmosphere since that ship might not be the most aerodynamic thing ever constructed.constructed.
* Starfleet has anti-gravity technology. So yes, it can indeed accelerate that much mass into orbit. Quite easily, in fact. The next movie features the ''Enterprise'' launching directly into space from underneath a planet's oceans, adding the weight of all the water that clings to it as well with no problem.
* Starfleet has anti-gravity technology. So yes, it can indeed accelerate that much mass into orbit. Quite easily, in fact. The next movie features the ''Enterprise'' launching directly into space from underneath a planet's oceans, adding the weight of all the water that clings to it as well with no problem.
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SCIENCE! sort of. Sad science.
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* By [[http://www.iucnredlist.org/static/categories_criteria_3_1 IUCN Red List criteria]], Vulcans are endangered. Any one of five criteria is enough to class a species as endangered; Vulcans meet the first, and possibly also the fifth.
** '''A) Population reduction.''' On the reasonable assumption that most of the population lived on Vulcan, the species has been reduced by over 70%.
** '''E)''' "Quantitative analysis showing the '''probability of extinction in the wild''' is at least 20% within 20 years or five generations, whichever is the longer (up to a maximum of 100 years)." This one's a bit of a leap, but there's a genocidal maniac with a super-powerful spaceship on Vulcan's doorstep, and none of the 10,000 refugees have made it to safety. Unscientifically vague, but Mr "7,824.7 to 1" Spock may well have performed the quantitative analysis himself. Finally, consider that Vulcans have very long lifespans, which usually means slow reproduction and a higher risk of extinction (since the populations take longer to replenish themselves). The remaining population is fragmented in colonies: less at risk from a single catastrophe ''*coughNerocough*'' but more vulnerable to small-scale catastrophes that could wipe out a small population.
** Note that a species is still endangered even if we anticipate a rescue attempt. If 80% of Earth's cows were to be abducted overnight by aliens, there'd be a massive effort to restore the population, but until the numbers bounce back they'd still be listed under E.
** '''A) Population reduction.''' On the reasonable assumption that most of the population lived on Vulcan, the species has been reduced by over 70%.
** '''E)''' "Quantitative analysis showing the '''probability of extinction in the wild''' is at least 20% within 20 years or five generations, whichever is the longer (up to a maximum of 100 years)." This one's a bit of a leap, but there's a genocidal maniac with a super-powerful spaceship on Vulcan's doorstep, and none of the 10,000 refugees have made it to safety. Unscientifically vague, but Mr "7,824.7 to 1" Spock may well have performed the quantitative analysis himself. Finally, consider that Vulcans have very long lifespans, which usually means slow reproduction and a higher risk of extinction (since the populations take longer to replenish themselves). The remaining population is fragmented in colonies: less at risk from a single catastrophe ''*coughNerocough*'' but more vulnerable to small-scale catastrophes that could wipe out a small population.
** Note that a species is still endangered even if we anticipate a rescue attempt. If 80% of Earth's cows were to be abducted overnight by aliens, there'd be a massive effort to restore the population, but until the numbers bounce back they'd still be listed under E.
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*** Actually, this Jim's date of birth is January 4th - 2233.04 being the current stardate at the beginning of the movie. Gives more reason why Winona and George were so worried over his birth! He would have possibly been premature!
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Adding thought
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*** Actually, this Jim's date of birth is January 4th - 2233.04 being the current stardate at the beginning of the movie. Gives more reason why Winona and George were so worried over his birth! He would have possibly been premature!
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***Chris Hemsworth (The actor that played Kirk's dad) DOES play Thor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
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**** According to the supplementary materials, sure. But to paraphrase SFDebris "You don't get credit for what you don't put in the movie because, and I'll try to explain this carefully, ''you didn't put it in the movie''". Even if you didn't have time/the budget to show Nero's capture, you could have the crew talk about how the Klingons had cost them all that time they could have used to save Romulus.
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**** According to the supplementary materials, sure. But to paraphrase SFDebris WebSite/SFDebris: "You don't get credit for what you don't put in the movie because, and I'll try to explain this carefully, ''you didn't put it in the movie''". Even if you didn't have time/the budget to show Nero's capture, you could have the crew talk about how the Klingons had cost them all that time they could have used to save Romulus.
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I used the wrong word.
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* It's a funny line, but does it make any sense? As pointed out on the TechnoBabble page, "external inertial dampener" is just a fancy way of saying "parking brake", but wouldn't that be pointless in space? There's no such thing as external inertia in a vacuum; one brakes in zero-g by applying thrust in the opposite momentum. It would make more sense if the parking brake were a safety preventing them from activating the warp drive, but that's not what Spock says. What would an external inertial dampener on a starship be used for?
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* It's a funny line, but does it make any sense? As pointed out on the TechnoBabble page, "external inertial dampener" is just a fancy way of saying "parking brake", but wouldn't that be pointless in space? There's no such thing as external inertia in a vacuum; one brakes in zero-g by applying thrust in the opposite momentum.direction. It would make more sense if the parking brake were a safety preventing them from activating the warp drive, but that's not what Spock says. What would an external inertial dampener on a starship be used for?
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How about the fact that those Starships are really, really heavy? The Enterprise, at least from the specs this troper could find on beta memory wiki, weights 190,000 metric tons. Can Starfleet tech accelerate that much mass to the 11 kilometers per second required to escape Earth's gravity without damaging the surrounding area as that would require a lot of force? Second observation, their tech also needs to be able to compensate for stuff like drag if it spends any time going through atmosphere since that ship might not be the most aerodynamic thing ever constructed.
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** In the original timeline, Spock would have been serving with Pike on the ''Enterprise'' at the time this movie is set, and in ''The Cage'' Spock does appear more emotional than he would later on - he smiles when they discover a plant causing the "alien noise" on the planet, for instance. Maybe young Spock was more emotional while serving under Pike and became more "Vulcan" later.
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** It's probably there to allow the ''Enterprise'' to safely dock with that big space station. Presumably having the "external inertial dampener" on reduces the forces on the physical docking points between the ship and the station, but it also prevents the warp drive from working if it's left on.
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Corrected earlier post.
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** That depends on the mass of the black hole and one's distance from it. A black hole is formed when matter is compressed to a certain point. Usually this requires a lot of mass compressed to a (relatively) small space. But it can also occur with much less mass compressed into a very small space. There is a formula called Roche's limit that describes how small a space a particular mass has to be compressed into. The upshot of this is that the actual black hole may not be very massive at all, while still consuming the planet. In that case, there wouldn't be any particular increase in the surface gravity, as the overall mass is nearly unchanged, and the people standing on the surface are no closer to or farther from the center of mass of the whole thing.
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** That depends on the mass of the black hole and one's distance from it. A black hole is formed when matter is compressed to a certain point. Usually this requires a lot of mass compressed to a (relatively) small space. But it can also occur with much less mass compressed into a very small space. There is a formula value called Roche's limit the Schwarzschild radius that describes how small a space a particular mass has to be compressed into. The upshot of this is that the actual black hole may not be very massive at all, while still consuming the planet. In that case, there wouldn't be any particular increase in the surface gravity, as the overall mass is nearly unchanged, and the people standing on the surface are no closer to or farther from the center of mass of the whole thing.
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** That depends on the mass of the black hole and one's distance from it. A black hole is formed when matter is compressed to a certain point. Usually this requires a lot of mass compressed to a (relatively) small space. But it can also occur with much less mass compressed into a very small space. There is a formula called Roche's limit that describes how small a space a particular mass has to be compressed into. The upshot of this is that the actual black hole may not be very massive at all, while still consuming the planet. In that case, there wouldn't be any particular increase in the surface gravity, as the overall mass is nearly unchanged, and the people standing on the surface are no closer to or farther from the center of mass of the whole thing.
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[[folder: Kirk is a descendant of Captain America.]]
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[[folder: Kirk is a descendant of Captain America.Thor.]]
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** Actually it's Thor who is Kirk's dad, not Captain America.
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** Actually it's Thor who is Kirk's dad, not Captain America.
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**** The vast majority of service members never set foot in their branch's academy. That figure includes the officer corps. Given the arrogance inherent to Vulcan culture in latter-day Trek, it's very possible that most Vulcans choose to attend a Vulcan university; many of which probably have the Starfleet equivalent of ROTC programs.
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** Incidentally, that should be even more true of the Romulans, who, before the Hobus Event were running an expansionist empire.
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** Then there is the issue of original!Spock bringing the AppliedPhlebotinum -- the "transwarp transporter" knowledge, which apparently because AwesomenessIsAForce he can just casually tweak an existing 23rd Century transporter unit and enable it to perform this radically-advanced new capability. Which means that, at the very least, he could have beamed to Vulcan (or possibly even to Earth itself) from Delta Vega and warned the Vulcan government and[=/=]or Starfleet. One would thus expect his highest priority having been to reach the outpost, since even with its limited resources he had the ability to leave the planet and go almost anywhere!
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* At any given time, there are a ''lot'' more than 10,000 ''Americans'' engaged in international travel in the real world! Sure, the Vulcans were fairly insular. But we also know that they liked to engage in scientific exploration, and that they had their own starships independently of Starfleet. Indeed many of them favored serving on all-Vulcan ships, with Spock being an anomaly for joining human-dominated Starfleet. Even if you just allow for the number of Vulcans serving as crews or traveling aboard Vulcan ships, attending conventions on other planets or engaging in field research, you should end up with ''way'' more than just 10,000 survivors!
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** They had to leave Earth in a hurry. Pants were due to be delivered on [[StarTrekGenerations Tuesday]].[[note]]You left Spacedock without ''pants''?!?[[/note]]
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** They had to leave Earth in a hurry. Pants were due to be delivered on [[StarTrekGenerations Tuesday]].[[note]]You [[note]]"You left Spacedock without ''pants''?!?[[/note]]''pants''?!?"[[/note]]
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** They had to leave Earth in a hurry. Pants were due to be delivered on [[StarTrekGenerations Tuesday]].[[note]]You left Spacedock without ''pants''?!?[[/note]]
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[[folder:"Did you disengage the external inertial dampener?"]]
* It's a funny line, but does it make any sense? As pointed out on the TechnoBabble page, "external inertial dampener" is just a fancy way of saying "parking brake", but wouldn't that be pointless in space? There's no such thing as external inertia in a vacuum; one brakes in zero-g by applying thrust in the opposite momentum. It would make more sense if the parking brake were a safety preventing them from activating the warp drive, but that's not what Spock says. What would an external inertial dampener on a starship be used for?
[[/folder]]
* It's a funny line, but does it make any sense? As pointed out on the TechnoBabble page, "external inertial dampener" is just a fancy way of saying "parking brake", but wouldn't that be pointless in space? There's no such thing as external inertia in a vacuum; one brakes in zero-g by applying thrust in the opposite momentum. It would make more sense if the parking brake were a safety preventing them from activating the warp drive, but that's not what Spock says. What would an external inertial dampener on a starship be used for?
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** if you think that Spock is comfortable with his feelings you missed the point. It's made clear by canon that Vulcans do have relationships and fall in love (his own father married a human because he loved her) so it's not surprising that he can have a relationship or fall in love and that Uhura can be allowed to see his feelings, in private. To the rest of the world he still maintained a cold facade like the other vulcans do and I don't think he'd be comfortable kissing her in public if he weren't in an emotional state where he saw his mother dying and felt guilty for not telling her he loved her. Maybe he didn't want to make the same mistake with his girlfriend and it also helps him that his father admitted having emotions ('I married her because I loved her') just one moment ago. Spock's arc in the movie definitely is him pretending he is the proper vulcan without feelings even knowing that it's not true and then coming into terms with the fact that him having feelings, or rather people seeing that he has feelings, is not bad and even his father says it's ok. They accelerated his emotional development, but then the other Spock didn't experience the same things this Spock did (even before the destroyed vulcan, e.g., his relationship with Uhura) so it makes sense that they can't be carbon copy of each other.
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** maybe he calls him Jim because what he's about to ask him (the message for Uhura) is personal. As for him referring to Uhura with her rank: are you really surprised by THAT? He calls her Nyota only when he's talking to her and he made it clear in the previous scene ('I have no comment on the matter') that he won't tell/confirm Kirk what her first name is especially when she apparently hadn't done that herself. Spock is Spock.
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** What's new? In tos T'pring had another boyfriend all the while being betrothed to Spock. The arranged marriage thing didn't stop T'Pol from romanticizing other people either.. The arranged marriage is established when they are seven years old and then they never talk to each other until pon farr happens and then they have a choice between keeping the bond mate chosen for them by their family or challenge the whole thing and choose another.
This is the stupidest complain one can have about the Spock/Uhura relationship because there is nothing in canon that might even vaguely suggest that Spock or any vulcan wouldn't be able to find alternatives to a stranger that their parents chose for them. That said, the person above me already mentioned that the comics made it clear he wasn't bonded with T'Pring anymore.
This is the stupidest complain one can have about the Spock/Uhura relationship because there is nothing in canon that might even vaguely suggest that Spock or any vulcan wouldn't be able to find alternatives to a stranger that their parents chose for them. That said, the person above me already mentioned that the comics made it clear he wasn't bonded with T'Pring anymore.
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** What's new? In tos T'pring had another boyfriend all the while being betrothed to Spock. The arranged marriage thing didn't stop T'Pol from romanticizing other people either.. The arranged marriage is established when they are seven years old and then they never talk to each other until pon farr happens and then they have a choice between keeping the bond mate chosen for them by their family or challenge the whole thing and choose another. \n This is the stupidest complain one can have about the Spock/Uhura relationship because there is nothing in canon that might even vaguely suggest that Spock or any vulcan wouldn't be able to find alternatives to a stranger that their parents chose for them. That said, the person above me already mentioned that the comics made it clear he wasn't bonded with T'Pring anymore.
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** What's new? In tos T'pring had another boyfriend all the while being betrothed to Spock. The arranged marriage thing didn't stop T'Pol from romanticizing other people either.. The arranged marriage is established when they are seven years old and then they never talk to each other until pon farr happens and then they have a choice between keeping the bond mate chosen for them by their family or challenge the whole thing and choose another.
This is the stupidest complain one can have about the Spock/Uhura relationship because there is nothing in canon that might even vaguely suggest that Spock or any vulcan wouldn't be able to find alternatives to a stranger that their parents chose for them. That said, the person above me already mentioned that the comics made it clear he wasn't bonded with T'Pring anymore.
This is the stupidest complain one can have about the Spock/Uhura relationship because there is nothing in canon that might even vaguely suggest that Spock or any vulcan wouldn't be able to find alternatives to a stranger that their parents chose for them. That said, the person above me already mentioned that the comics made it clear he wasn't bonded with T'Pring anymore.
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**** you can show the appearance of favoritism even if, say, your first officer and chief medical officer are both your best friends...
** so is the vulcans discriminating Spock just because he's half human. If he knows that the vulcans themselves can be lead by prejudices, how can he even hope that the humans at the academy won't have prejudices about Uhura and speculate that she got on the best ship just because she was his girlfriend? Her records proving that she's one of the best cadets and deserved that would be as useless for those ignorant humans as his own records on vulcan were useless for the vulcans that still discriminated him because of his human mother.
** so is the vulcans discriminating Spock just because he's half human. If he knows that the vulcans themselves can be lead by prejudices, how can he even hope that the humans at the academy won't have prejudices about Uhura and speculate that she got on the best ship just because she was his girlfriend? Her records proving that she's one of the best cadets and deserved that would be as useless for those ignorant humans as his own records on vulcan were useless for the vulcans that still discriminated him because of his human mother.
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** Well, the scientists who studied red matter had to call the NegativeSpaceWedgie ''something''. "Black hole" works as well for a name as any name.
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*** One would have to assume Prime Spock warned alternate Star Fleet about the whale probe in advance and the Federation has a Space Whale Task Force hard at work on a solution for when the probe arrives.
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*** One would have to assume Prime Spock warned alternate Star Fleet about the whale probe in advance and the Federation has a Space Whale Task Force hard at work on a solution for when the probe arrives. This would have to be the case, otherwise when the same situation happened in this timeline, Pine Kirk would have to go back and stop Shatner Kirk from taking the whales back to a now non-existent future. ...Or would the Shatner Kirk who appeared out of nowhere in the '80s end up traveling forward to the ''new'' timeline, and thus end up coexisting with Pine Kirk? And of course, past prime Spock would end up coexisting with his own future self ''as well as'' his alternate past self. This is all getting rather ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}''.
