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*** Hence the operative term "innocent." The popular theory is that Heather is insane and wandering around murdering random bystanders, something which instantly falls apart when even the most basic logic is applied to it.

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*** Hence the operative term "innocent." The popular theory that keeps getting thrown around is that Heather is insane and wandering around murdering random bystanders, something which a premise that is definitely shocking, but instantly falls apart when even the most basic logic is applied to it.
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*** Hence the operative term "innocent." The popular theory is that Heather is insane and wandering around murdering random bystanders, something which instantly falls apart when even the most basic logic is applied to it.
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*** Also: ''Leonard Wolfe''. We know for a fact that if he's not literally, biologically human, then he lived a (relatively) normal human life before being changed by the cult.
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**** "Don't worry, it's just a joke," said ''the con artist''. It's a meaningful line because Vincent is utterly unreliable as a source, almost everything he says to Heather is backed by a desire to manipulate her, a lack of reliable information, or a need to subvert the cult's aims for his own gain. None of those things require him to be honest with her, and all of them are helped by undermining her already-fragile grip on reality so that she'll look to him for direction, which completely works. To use your example, that's like quoting verse from a fake version of the Bible written by an atheist Bible salesman.
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**** Well, except that the "the monsters can't be people" theory presumes that the people are random bystanders who aren't involved with the cult at all, that their behavior is completely in line with what Heather is seeing and experiencing, and that Heather can see every person in the area and not only the ones that threaten or interact with her, and that the layered reality of Silent Hill is itself completely objective. Even the "uniformed monsters in police cruisers" hypothetical assumes that it's a consistent, universal, 1:1 human-to-monster parallel that Heather experiences, and unless you want to get into the meta of having limited monster types, we have no way to know that's true. Claudia even hands Heather an explanation as to why the monsters are willing to die to attack her: they're trying to get the cult's god to understand pain so that it can learn sympathy and save humanity. If they ''are'' people, the monsters aren't just random nobodies, they're insane, Lovecraft-style cultists willing to die for their cause.

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** Probably another case of Silent Hill playing on people's fears...

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** Probably another case of Silent Hill playing on people's fears...¸
** Actually, the roller coaster did make her jump in the right spot. After jumping off, she landed on the soft (I assume, kinda hard to tell because of the graphics) roof of a souvenir/popcorn wagon instead of the hard metal floor.
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** Yup. Look at the fifth paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.

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** Yup. Look at the fifth paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep slowly shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior behavior, broadly speaking, is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.
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** Maybe because no matter how full of righteous anger you are, the act of killing another human being for the first time is an extremely difficult one? Heather's not a seasoned soldier-- she's only ''seventeen''. Sure, she may have been given marksmanship lessons from her father, but practicing on a dummy and killing an actual living thing are two vastly different things. Just look at the way she reacts when she fires the first shot at the Mandarin at the beginning of the game-- she ''cries out'' when the gun goes off for the first time, and that was against a ''monster''. I have no problem believing that she would blanch at committing cold-blooded murder, no matter how desperate for vengeance she was or how much Claudia deserved it.

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** Maybe because no matter how full of righteous anger you are, the act of killing another human being for the first time is usually an extremely difficult one? Heather's not a seasoned soldier-- soldier or even a sociopath-- from all appearances she's only ''seventeen''.a normal seventeen-year-old girl. Sure, she may have been given marksmanship lessons from her father, but practicing on a dummy and killing an actual living thing are two vastly different things. Just look at the way she reacts when she fires the first shot at the Mandarin at the beginning of the game-- she ''cries out'' when the gun goes off for the first time, and that was against a ''monster''. I have no problem believing that she would blanch at committing cold-blooded murder, no matter how desperate for vengeance she was or how much Claudia deserved it.
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** Maybe because no matter how full of righteous anger you are, the act of killing another human being for the first time is an extremely difficult one? Heather's not a seasoned soldier-- she's only <i>seventeen</i>. Sure, she may have been given marksmanship lessons from her father, but practicing on a dummy and killing an actual living thing are two vastly different things. Just look at the way she reacts when she fires the first shot at the Mandarin at the beginning of the game-- she <i>cries out</i> when the gun goes off for the first time, and that was against a <i>monster</i>. I have no problem believing that she would blanch at committing cold-blooded murder, no matter how desperate for vengeance she was or how much Claudia deserved it.

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** Maybe because no matter how full of righteous anger you are, the act of killing another human being for the first time is an extremely difficult one? Heather's not a seasoned soldier-- she's only <i>seventeen</i>.''seventeen''. Sure, she may have been given marksmanship lessons from her father, but practicing on a dummy and killing an actual living thing are two vastly different things. Just look at the way she reacts when she fires the first shot at the Mandarin at the beginning of the game-- she <i>cries out</i> ''cries out'' when the gun goes off for the first time, and that was against a <i>monster</i>.''monster''. I have no problem believing that she would blanch at committing cold-blooded murder, no matter how desperate for vengeance she was or how much Claudia deserved it.
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** Maybe because no matter how full of righteous anger you are, the act of killing another human being for the first time is an extremely difficult one? Heather's not a seasoned soldier-- she's only <i>seventeen</i>. Sure, she may have been given marksmanship lessons from her father, but practicing on a dummy and killing an actual living thing are two vastly different things. Just look at the way she reacts when she fires the first shot at the Mandarin at the beginning of the game-- she <i>cries out</i> when the gun goes off for the first time, and that was against a <i>monster</i>. I have no problem believing that she would blanch at committing cold-blooded murder, no matter how desperate for vengeance she was or how much Claudia deserved it.
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[[folder:Why am I not shooting her ass again?]]
* There are many cutscenes on the game where Heather will just point her gun at Claudia and threaten to kill her, but in the end, she gives up in all of them. The only instance where Heather can shoot Claudia is when controlled by the player near the final battle, which will lead to a DownerEnding where God is born. Now, I understand that God is nurtured by hatred and all that, but Claudia hints several times that killing her wouldn't be enough for it to happen. Such as: Not remembering her "true self", not being at the right place, ''not being at the right time''. So, I don't see any logical reasons for Heather to just wait or try to reason with an obviously insane woman who just murdered her father and shoot her ass up while there's still time. It's not even like she ''needed'' a reason the first time, because she didn't even understand the hatred plot point. Had she done this, she'd be back to her life and would forget about the whole "Silent Hill, God and Paradise" thing.
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Pretty pointless response, since the bullet point is referencing another theory further down.


** Yup. Look at the fourth paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.
*** Well then, you just solved your own mystery, didn't you? The monsters don't run away, therefore, they're not human.

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** Yup. Look at the fourth fifth paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.
*** Well then, you just solved your own mystery, didn't you? The monsters don't run away, therefore, they're not human.
way.
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** It's possible that, since Heather took the aglaophotis orally, it had an emetic effect on her. It went in one way and took the evil back out the same way. Also, there's the fact that the "god" "completes" its birth after being swallowed by Claudia, which may mean that the "god" doesn't need a womb to be "born".

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** It's possible that, since Heather took the aglaophotis orally, it had an emetic effect on her. It went in one way and took the evil back out the same way. Also, there's the fact that the "god" "completes" its birth after being swallowed by Claudia, which may mean that the "god" doesn't need a womb to be "born". Considering that Claudia was able to give birth to it afterwards and in the way that she did lends credence to the "born from the soul" theory above. At that point, the god was far enough along after being nourished by Heather's hatred towards Claudia (and, to a lesser degree, Vincent, possibly?) that it just needed a soul that believed in it and/or had enough hatred to nourish it (possibly Claudia's hatred towards her father?) to term.
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*** Well then, you just solved your own mystery, didn't you? The monsters don't run away, therefore, they're not human.
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*** There's no indication that she's not a relatively normal human being, outside of having telekinetic powers. It seems pretty unlikely that she was pregnant with the cult's god in the same way that a person would be literally pregnant with a fetus. All of the graphic symbolism related to birth in the game is really just symbolism, and probably doesn't reflect what would have happened if Heather had actually "birthed" the god. From its birth scenes in both the first ''Silent Hill'' and this one, it seems more likely that the incubation is spiritual.

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*** There's no indication that she's not a relatively normal human being, outside of having telekinetic powers. It So, it seems pretty unlikely that she was pregnant with the cult's god in the same way that a person would be literally pregnant with a fetus. All of the graphic symbolism related to birth in the game is really just symbolism, and probably doesn't reflect what would have happened if Heather had actually "birthed" the god. From its birth scenes in both the first ''Silent Hill'' and this one, it seems more most likely that it's born from the incubation is spiritual.soul (and probably destroys the body) of the person incubating it.
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*** There's no indication that she's not a relatively normal human being, outside of having telekinetic powers. It seems pretty unlikely that she was pregnant with the cult's god in the same way that a person would be literally pregnant with a fetus. All of the graphic symbolism related to birth in the game is really just symbolism, and probably doesn't reflect what would have happened if Heather had actually "birthed" the god. From its birth scenes in both the first ''Silent Hill'' and this one, it seems more likely that the incubation is spiritual.
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*** This is what I thought of when I saw the nurses, too. Heather seems to have some anxieties about sexuality that go a bit beyond the norm, given the fact that her monsters so often represent genitalia and fears of sexual violation.

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** Thank you. Thank you so much. There are very few things that annoy me about fandoms, but this is one that always riles me up. Everybody always quotes that line, but never quotes the follow-up line: "Don't worry, it's just a joke." This is like people going "Oh man, the Bible had such a wham line in it where it's all like 'There is no God'. And that's like an actual direct quote and totally isn't out of context." (Psalm 14:1, 'case anyone's wondering)

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** *** Thank you. Thank you so much. There are very few things that annoy me about fandoms, but this is one that always riles me up. Everybody always quotes that line, but never quotes the follow-up line: "Don't worry, it's just a joke." This is like people going "Oh man, the Bible had such a wham line in it where it's all like 'There is no God'. And that's like an actual direct quote and totally isn't out of context." (Psalm 14:1, 'case anyone's wondering)wondering)
** Slightly different to the above, as Vincent is part of the cult, the monsters may not literally ''look different'' to him, it's that he ''sees them differently'' to Heather. As a cultist, though Vincent sees the same grotesque twisted heaps of flesh and bone that Heather does, his religious indoctrination means he sees them in the context of being divine, glorious beings. Since the cult is strongly hinted as the dominant religion of Silent Hill, he may never before have met someone who doesn't perceive them the same way. It's like a person who's a huge pit bull lover and who grew up in a town where everyone felt the same way meeting a person who fears and loathes pitbulls for the first time. As touched upon in [[http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2014/10/30/Silent-Hill-cult-history.aspx this fan article on the cult's history here]].
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** In the second game, there's a boss battle where James fights another character's manifestation of their past trauma, indicating people's other worlds can overlap. Later in the game the same creature appears again, a lot smaller and weaker. Even though it was "someone else's" creature, once he encountered it, it seemed to become a permanent fixture for him as wekk. Heather visits the same hospital James visits... Perhaps ''his'' nurses are left behind, and appear slightly different to be more "normal" for Heather?

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** In the second game, there's a boss battle where James fights another character's manifestation of their past trauma, indicating people's other worlds can overlap. Later in the game the same creature appears again, a lot smaller and weaker. Even though it was "someone else's" creature, once he encountered it, it seemed to become a permanent fixture for him as wekk.well. Heather visits the same hospital James visits... Perhaps ''his'' nurses are left behind, and appear slightly different to be more "normal" for Heather?
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***** If I remember right, as soon as you encounter the first Closer, Heather is willing to immediately try the bathroom door without hesitation and the lock's been broken. The person in the bathroom stall also disappears as soon as the first encounter happens. Basically "Silent Hill mode" has been triggered and there's no going back.
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** It's possible that, since Heather took the aglaophotis orally, it had an emetic effect on her. It went in one way and took the evil back out the same way.

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** It's possible that, since Heather took the aglaophotis orally, it had an emetic effect on her. It went in one way and took the evil back out the same way. Also, there's the fact that the "god" "completes" its birth after being swallowed by Claudia, which may mean that the "god" doesn't need a womb to be "born".
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*** Not from what I remember, if I'm recalling correctly, Vincent getting stabbed was a total surprise. The camera deliberately showed Vincent falling over in pain, with Claudia behind him and the knife in her hands.


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** It's possible that, since Heather took the aglaophotis orally, it had an emetic effect on her. It went in one way and took the evil back out the same way.
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Snark, genuine response

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***His parents?!

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** For reference, try shooting at Claudia instead of using the aglaophotis. [[spoiler:See how Heather "births" the god...]]



Is Heather the same? Her Silent Hill also has fog, perhaps to represent her clouded memory of her past as Alessa. The two monsters that have eyes are God (after she 'opens her eyes' and realizes who she is,) and the Glutton, who she gets rid of by saying the magic spell "Tu Fui, Ego Eris" (meaning I was you, you will be me), which could be a forshadowing of her dual identity as both [[spoiler:Heather and Alessa.]]

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Is Heather the same? Her Silent Hill also has fog, perhaps to represent her clouded memory of her past as Alessa. The two monsters that have eyes are God (after she 'opens her eyes' and realizes who she is,) and the Glutton, who she gets rid of by saying the magic spell "Tu Fui, Ego Eris" (meaning I was you, you will be me), which could be a forshadowing foreshadowing of her dual identity as both [[spoiler:Heather and Alessa.]]



*** This point is probably irrelevant but also bare in mind how the second game showed the Otherworld as differentfor each person, so therefore shouldn't the creatures be? Douglas only definitely sees one monster, and it may not have been anything Heather sees.

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*** This point is probably irrelevant but also bare in mind how the second game showed the Otherworld as differentfor different for each person, so therefore shouldn't the creatures be? Douglas only definitely sees one monster, and it may not have been anything Heather sees.


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** Probably another case of Silent Hill playing on people's fears...
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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]] And since ''private'' detectives are typically hired by people of the non-cop persuasion (and kind of pricey... ), you have to consider: who'd care enough about Eddie to send a PI after him?

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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]] And since ''private'' detectives are typically hired by people of the non-cop persuasion (and kind of pricey... ), pricey), you have to consider: who'd care enough about Eddie to send a PI after him?
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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]] And since ''private'' detectives are typically hired by people of the non-cop persuasion, you have to consider: who'd care enough about Eddie to send a PI after him?

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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]] And since ''private'' detectives are typically hired by people of the non-cop persuasion, persuasion (and kind of pricey... ), you have to consider: who'd care enough about Eddie to send a PI after him?
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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]]

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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]]]] And since ''private'' detectives are typically hired by people of the non-cop persuasion, you have to consider: who'd care enough about Eddie to send a PI after him?
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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Angela.]]

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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Cybil or Angela.]]
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** Except for the follow-up line "I never did find ''him''," (emphasis mine) which strongly suggests a male, [[SarcasmMode sure, it could be Angela.]]
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** Yup. Look at the third paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.

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** Yup. Look at the third fourth paragraph down from this one; monster behavior is "keep shambling towards the puny human bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe," while human behavior is "panic and run away from the fucking lunatic bashing in your friend's skull with a pipe." It's much easier to believe when you look at it that way.



*** The "they're actually innocent people" thing sort of reminds me of the "Ferris Bueller is a figment of Cameron's imagination" theory: people latch onto the mind-blowing aspect of it, but they don't give it any actual ''thought''. When you do, you quickly realize that the "monsters" of Silent Hill really will attack and kill you if you let them, none of the other "monsters" panic or flee for their lives when you bludgeon one of their number to death with a steel pipe, and that a bunch of uniformed "monsters" never show up in police cruisers to put a stop to your murderous rampage at any point. They look like monsters, yes, but they also BEHAVE like monsters. It gets a good shock out of Heather, but it holds very little water as a legitimate answer for what the monsters are and what they're doing in the town. All told, "Vincent's just fucking with her" seems a much more credible theory.

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*** The "they're actually innocent people" thing sort of reminds me of the "Ferris "[[FerrisBuellersDayOff Ferris Bueller is a figment of Cameron's imagination" imagination]]" theory: people latch onto the mind-blowing aspect of it, but they don't give it any actual actual, y'know, ''thought''. When you do, you quickly realize that the "monsters" of Silent Hill really will attack and kill you if you let them, none of the other "monsters" panic or flee for their lives when you bludgeon one of their number to death with a steel pipe, and that a bunch of uniformed "monsters" never show up in police cruisers to put a stop to your murderous rampage at any point. They look like monsters, yes, but they also BEHAVE like monsters. It gets a good shock out of Heather, but it holds very little water as a legitimate answer for what the monsters are and what they're doing in the town. All told, "Vincent's just fucking with her" seems sounds like a much more credible theory.

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