History Headscratchers / OlafsFrozenAdventure

*** Funnily enough, we are never told onscreen ''when'' exactly Anna’s birthday is. We have this knowledge from outside sources like Jennifer Lee’s famous tweet, and a few semi-canon ''Frozen'' tie-in books that also use a summer solstice date. But visually, the ''Frozen'' saga order fits the order in which these movies were made and suggests that they happen in Spring (''Frozen''), Summer (''Frozen Fever''), then Winter (''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'') of the same year (kinda confirmed by Chris Buck [[https://youtu.be/HOxSaP9orhE here]]), and ''Disney/FrozenII'' happening in autumn three years into Elsa's reign. But with additional info (Oaken’s comment or Anna’s birthday date) this order does not work anymore.

** The Christmas Special Wiki also states that the short comes after ''Disney/FrozenII''. This places the order as being ''Frozen'', ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'', ''Disney/FrozenII'' and ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure''. This wasn't officially confirmed by Disney, but considering this short was made by a different team, it's possible that the producer and writer of this short were only told something along the lines of "It's the first holiday since Elsa's coronation, go". The main events of the short could pretty much go anywhere on the official timeline, either after ''Frozen'' but before ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' or after ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' as is in the release order. ''Disney/FrozenII'' also affirms the placement of ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' in the timeline by acknowledging the Snowgies, which is a given since the original team worked on ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' and had little to no involvement in the conception and development of ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' although the team who worked on ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' said they vetted the script and contributed notes, but in terms of actual production, little-to-no.

** The Christmas Special Wiki also states that the short comes after ''Disney/FrozenII''. This places the order as being ''Frozen'', ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'', ''Disney/FrozenII'' and ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure''. This wasn't officially confirmed by Disney, but considering this short was made by a different team, it's possible that the producer and writer of this short were only told something along the lines of "It's the first holiday since Elsa's coronation, go". They're may not have been concerned too much about viewing order. The main events of the short could pretty much go anywhere on the official timeline, either after ''Frozen'' but before ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' or after ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' as is in the release order. ''Disney/FrozenII'' also affirms the placement of ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' in the timeline by acknowledging the Snowgies, which is a given since the original team worked on ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' and had little to no involvement in the conception and development of ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' although the team who worked on ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' said they vetted the script and contributed notes, but in terms of actual production, little-to-no.

** The Christmas Special Wiki also states that the short comes after ''Disney/FrozenII''. This places the order as being ''Frozen'', ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'', ''Disney/FrozenII'' and ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure''. This wasn't officially confirmed by Disney, but considering this short was made by a different team, it's obviously clear that the producer and writer of this short were only told something along the lines of "It's the first holiday since Elsa's coronation, go". The main events of the short could pretty much go anywhere on the official timeline, either after ''Frozen'' but before ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' or after ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' as is in the release order. [WordofGod] also pretty much described the shorts as expansions and not canon to the story arc the two movies were building, so they're probably aren't concerned too much about viewing order. ''Disney/FrozenII'' also affirms the placement of ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' in the timeline by acknowledging the Snowgies, which is a given since the original team worked on ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' and had little to no involvement in the conception and development of ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' although the team who worked on ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' said they vetted the script and contributed notes, but in terms of actual production, little-to-no.

** In the time frame this film is based in (1840-50's), chances are good that those gloves were satin at all but kidskin. A lady (especially a princess like Elsa) was expected to have many pairs around because kidskin is very delicate and often wore out.

** The Christmas Special Wiki also states that the short comes after ''Disney/FrozenII''. This places the order as being ''Frozen'', ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'', ''Disney/FrozenII'' and ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure''. This wasn't officially confirmed by Disney, but considering this short was made by a different team, it's obviously clear that the producer and writer of this short were only told something along the lines of "It's the first holiday since Elsa's coronation, go". The main events of the short could pretty much go anywhere on the official timeline, either after ''Frozen'' but before ''FrozenFever'' or after ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' as is in the release order. [WordofGod] also pretty much described the shorts as expansions and not canon to the story arc the two movies were building, so they're probably aren't concerned too much about viewing order. ''Disney/FrozenII'' also affirms the placement of ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' in the timeline by acknowledging the Snowgies, which is a given since the original team worked on ''WesternAnimation/FrozenFever'' and had little to no involvement in the conception and development of ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' although the team who worked on ''WesternAnimation/OlafsFrozenAdventure'' said they vetted the script and contributed notes, but in terms of actual production, little-to-no.

** The Christmas Special Wiki also states that the short comes after ''Disney/FrozenII''. This places the order as being ''Frozen'', ''FrozenFever'', ''FrozenII'' and ''OlafsFrozenAdventure''. This wasn't officially confirmed by Disney, but considering this short was made by a different team, it's obviously clear that the producer and writer of this short were only told something along the lines of "It's the first holiday since Elsa's coronation, go". The main events of the short could pretty much go anywhere on the official timeline, either after ''Frozen'' but before ''FrozenFever'' or after ''FrozenFever'' as is in the release order. [[WordofGod]] also pretty much described the shorts as expansions and not canon to the story arc the two movies were building, so they're probably aren't concerned too much about viewing order. ''FrozenII'' also affirms the placement of ''FrozenFever'' in the timeline by acknowledging the Snowgies, which is a given since the original team worked on ''FrozenFever'' and had little to no involvement in the conception and development of ''OlafsFrozenAdventure'' although the team who worked on ''OlafsFrozenAdventure'' said they vetted the script and contributed notes, but in terms of actual production, little-to-no.

* Why would wolves wanna attack Olaf? HE'S MADE OF SNOW! No flesh and blood to be found in that "prey". Even if they did attack Olaf thinking he was something to hunt and eat, how exactly would they have killed him? I don't how one could kill an animate Snowman without melting him.

* Why would wolves wanna attack Olaf? HE'S MADE OF SNOW! No flesh and blood to be found in that "prey". Eve if they did attack Olaf thinking he was something to hunt and eat, how exactly would they have killed him? I don't how one could kill an animate Snowman without melting him.

** Perhaps Anna had in her head a vision of Olaf that she made for Elsa, and these Olafs she made were different from the real deal, so it took her a moment to “recognize” him. (And considering how she freaked out at first at the sight of him, that may have also factored in) For Elsa's part, she probably put the box with Olafs in her trunk in the attic after her parents died, when suddenly she had responsibilities she wasn’t ready to have yet. Three stressful years as the queen with a big secret to hide could bury the memory of Anna’s Olafs deep in her mind, though she did remember the box she kept the gifts in (more specifically, the art on the box).
** If Anna made the Olafs every year, then the parents' death and Elsa becoming queen shouldn't affect either of their memories of them much. It probably didn't occur to them that it could count as a tradition until it was in front of their faces, making it easier to put two and two together.

** We know that ''Frozen'' takes place in July because Oaken says so ("A real howler in July, yes?"). While this is an oral message we get, the visual one is in contradiction to it. All Arendelle scenery before and after the Eternal Winter screams spring. Crocuses (c. vernus), the flowers of Arendelle, are in bloom on one windowsill when Elsa ends the eternal winter. Wisteria (w. floribunda) are seen in bloom above Hans at one point during "Love Is an Open Door". These plants bloom in spring. Meanwhile, in ''Frozen Fever'', Anna gets a bouquet of flowers from Elsa and again some are easily recognizable: sunflowers (helianthus annuus), which bloom in summer, and definitely after crocuses and wisteria. And no matter how we try, June can't happen after July, no matter the year.

*** Funnily enough, we are never told onscreen ''when'' exactly Anna’s birthday is. We have this knowledge from outside sources like Jennifer Lee’s famous tweet, and a few semi-canon ''Frozen'' tie-in books that also use a summer solstice date. But visually, the ''Frozen'' saga order fits the order in which these movies were made and suggests that they happen in Spring (''Frozen''), Summer (''Frozen Fever''), then Winter (''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'') of the same year (kinda confirmed by Chris Buck [[https://youtu.be/HOxSaP9orhE here]]), and ''Disney/FrozenII'' happening in autumn a year or two later. But with additional info (Oaken’s comment or Anna’s birthday date) this order does not work anymore.

** Oaken's "howler in July" comment isn't the only indication given of a summer setting in the first movie. He also keeps talking about a "big summer blowout," and a bunch of characters mention it being summertime, including Kristoff telling Olaf they need Elsa to "bring back summer."

** In ''Frozen Fever'', Elsa does not touch Olaf, even if he obviously asks for a hug with his body language. We all know that Elsa is not a very touchy-feely person. Actually the only person touching her freely we ever see is Anna. In ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'', Olaf gets an "Olaf sandwich hug" where he's side-hugged by Anna and Elsa simultaneously, seemingly because Elsa has become more comfortable with physical contact and she included Olaf into her comfort zone.

*** In ''Frozen Fever'', when Kristoff presents the cake, and said “I love you baby" to Anna, he gets very shy and Anna is rather surprised. So we can assume that was the first time he'd ever said that to Anna's face. They don’t even touch each other once in that short. In ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'', Kristoff is keeping his hand on Anna’s shoulder rather possessively when Elsa creates the cloud to fly Olaf up to the top of her ice Christmas tree, and he flirtatiously brushes up against her when singing his troll ballad at the beginning. Progress, I would say.
*** Elsa’s ability to make objects fly. In ''Frozen Fever'', Elsa could move flowers a short distance. Here, we have lanterns and even Olaf, going as high as the top of a high Christmas tree.

*** Royal birthdays are generally a big deal, so it wouldn't be surprising if the celebrations were separate. Especially if Elsa requested something low-key instead of the big party supposed to be part of restoring the Yule Bell ringing tradition. There's not much reason to bring up the birthday if it's already passed, too.

** We know that ''Frozen'' takes place in July because Oaken says so ("A real howler in July, yes?"). While this is an oral message we get, the visual one is in contradiction to it. All Arendelle scenery before and after the Eternal Winter screams spring. Disney is terrible with plants, but some are recognizable for everyone: crocuses (c. vernus), the flowers of Arendelle, are in bloom on one windowsill when Elsa ends the eternal winter. Wisteria (w. floribunda) are seen in bloom above Hans at one point during "Love Is an Open Door". These plants bloom in spring. Meanwhile, in ''Frozen Fever'', Anna gets a bouquet of flowers from Elsa and again some are easily recognizable: sunflowers (helianthus annuus), which bloom in summer, and definitely after crocuses and wisteria. And no matter how we try, June can't happen after July, no matter the year.

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Does ringing the Yule Bell not count as a tradition? Why not?]]
* Ringing the Yule Bell was something the family did before the gates closed, and it's implied they did it regularly. When Elsa brings it back after opening the gates, wouldn't that count as a tradition?
** Anna says "But the Yule Bell was for ''the kingdom''. What about ''us''?" suggesting that ringing the Yule Bell was something the royal family had been doing for years even before Elsa was born. Furthermore, Anna probably doesn't consider it a family tradition because it was a public event for both the royal family and the citizens of Arendelle, not something private that the family did behind closed doors.

Ringing the Yule Bell was something the family did before the gates closed, and it's implied they did it regularly. When Elsa brings it back after opening the gates, wouldn't that count as a tradition?

** Before. There's plenty of evidence to support this:
*** ''Frozen Fever'' starts with Elsa still in her blue dress. Later she makes her trademark transformation to her ''Frozen Fever'' dress, which is basically the same kind of transformation we see in "Let it Go", plus some upgrade like adding living flowers into dress patterns and making them fly (allowing her to also add some sunflowers to Anna's skirt). We could assume that she practiced since the first movie with her powers and is better now. Elsa's dress in ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'' is not made of ice at all. The novelization establishes that it's a Christmas gift from Anna. By now, we can assume that adding her icy touch to any dress she wears is a tradition now, since the cape is still made from ice.
*** In ''Frozen Fever'', Elsa does not touch Olaf, even if he obviously asks for a hug with his body language. We all know that Elsa is not a very touchy-feely person, to put it lightly. Actually the only person touching her freely we ever see is Anna. In ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'', Olaf gets an "Olaf sandwich hug" where he's side-hugged by Anna and Elsa simultaneously, because Elsa is obviously more comfortable with physical contact and she included Olaf into her comfort zone.
*** In ''Frozen Fever'', when Kristoff presented the cake, and said “I love you baby" to Anna, he got very shy and Anna was rather surprised. So we can assume that was the first time he'd ever said that to Anna's face. They don’t even touch each other once in that short. In ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'', Kristoff is keeping his hand on Anna’s shoulder rather possessively when Elsa creates the cloud to fly Olaf up to the top of her ice Christmas tree, and he flirtatiously brushes up against her when singing his troll ballad at the beginning. Progress, I would say.
*** Elsa’s ability to make objects fly. In ''Frozen Fever'', Elsa could move flowers a short distance. Here, we have lanterns and even Olaf, going as high as the top of a high Christmas tree.
** The argument for "Olaf's Frozen Adventure is before Frozen Fever" generally belongs to those who buy into Jennifer Lee's "Anna was born on the summer solstice, and Elsa on the winter solstice", and point to the fact that Elsa's coronation took place in July (from Oaken's "a real howler in July, yes?" remark). The only problem with that is that it would mean that ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'' is taking place just days after Elsa's birthday. Which would raise the questions of, why didn't the royal sisters just combine the Yule Bell ringing ceremony and surprise party into the celebrations for Elsa's birthday? And for that matter, why isn't there a single mention of Elsa's birthday during the short?

*** ''Frozen Fever'' starts with Elsa still in her blue dress. Later she makes her trademark transformation to her ''Frozen Fever'' dress, which is basically the same kind of transformation we see in "Let it Go", plus some upgrade like adding living flowers into dress patterns and making them fly (allowing her to also add some sunflowers to Anna's skirt). We could assume that she practiced since the first movie with her powers and is better now.
*** Elsa's dress in ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'' is not made of ice at all. The novelization establishes that it's a Chirstmas gift from Anna. By now, we can assume that adding her icy touch to any dress she wears is a tradition now, since the cape is still made from ice.

** The argument for "Olaf's Frozen Adventure is before Frozen Fever" generally belongs to those who buy into Jennifer Lee's "Anna was born on the summer solstice, and Elsa on the winter solstice", and point to the fact that Elsa's coronation took place in July (from Oaken's "a real howler in July, yes?" remark). The only problem with that is that it would mean that ''Olaf's Frozen Adventure'' is taking place just days after Elsa's birthday. Which would raise the question of, why didn't the royal sisters just combine the Yule Bell ringing ceremony and surprise party into the celebrations for Elsa's birthday?