History Headscratchers / MarvelCinematicUniverse

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[[folder:moon knight and the others during infinity war-endgame]]
were any of them dusted/returned?
[[/folder]]

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[[folder:sokovian accords after the blip]]
are they still in effect?

* It’s not clear what a god is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Since it seems like Arishem from Film/{{Eternals}} essentially created the Universe, yet he’s never described as a god. While the first two ComicBook/{{Thor}} movies clearly portray the Aesir as {{Sufficiently Advanced Aliens}} rather than gods but the last two characterize them as gods. Speaking of which in Film/ThorLoveAndThunder Eternity isn’t considered a god but it’s not clear why. Or for that matter how Gorr determines who is or isn’t a god as part of his deicidal killing spree. Also Thanos with the Infinity Stones has the power to destroy the Universe and create a new one to replace it which raises the question of why he’s not considered a god but Thor is. Ditto for He Who Remains from Series/{{Loki|2021}}. With the Egyptian gods from Series/{{Moon Knight|2022}} they’ve got their own afterlife so it makes sense to count them as that but Rapu from {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} explicitly says that his pantheon doesn’t have an Afterlife. So I want to know in the MCU, what is a god?

* It’s not clear what a god is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Since it seems like Arishem from Film/{{Eternals}} essentially created the Universe, yet he’s never described as a god. While the first two ComicBook/{{Thor}} movies clearly portray the Aesir as {{Sufficiently Advanced Aliens}} rather than gods but the last two characterize them as gods. Speaking of which in Film/ThorLoveAndThunder Eternity isn’t considered a god but it’s not clear why. Or for that matter how Gorr determines who is or isn’t a god as part of his deicidal killing spree. Also Thanos with the Infinity Stones has the power to destroy the Universe and create a new one to replace it which raises the question of why he’s not considered a god but Thor is. Ditto for He Who Remains from Series/{{Loki|2021}}. With the Egyptian gods from Series/{{Moon Knight|2021}} they’ve got their own afterlife so it makes sense to count them as that but Rapu from {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} explicitly says that his pantheon doesn’t have an Afterlife. So I want to know in the MCU, what is a god?

* It’s not clear what a god is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Since it seems like Arishem from {{Film/The Eternals}} essentially created the Universe, yet he’s never described as a god. While the first two {{ComicBook/Thor}} movies clearly portray the Aesir as {{Sufficiently Advanced Aliens}} rather than gods but the last two characterize them as gods. Speaking of which in {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} Eternity isn’t considered a god but it’s not clear why. Or for that matter how Gorr determines who is or isn’t a god as part of his deicidal killing spree. Also Thanos with the Infinity Stones has the power to destroy the Universe and create a new one to replace it which raises the question of why he’s not considered a god but Thor is. Ditto for He Who Remains from {{Series/Loki}}. With the Egyptian gods from {{Series/Moon Knight}} they’ve got their own afterlife so it makes sense to count them as that but Rapu from {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} explicitly says that his pantheon doesn’t have an Afterlife. So I want to know in the MCU, what is a god?

* I don't really understand why this is even a question; it seems like the only real evidence the "non canon" camp has is that the MCU movies do not reference the tv shows, but this alone is not really compelling evidence of the shows being non-canon, especially with how much the shows themselves make it clear that they are taking place in the MCU. ''Series/AgentsOfShield'' and ''Series/AgentCarter'' especially not only are shows revolving around movie specific characters (Agent Coulson and Peggy Carter) played by the same actors as in the movies, but also featured multiple appearances by movie characters in supporting and cameo roles, also played by their movie actors (Nick Fury, Mariah Hill, Lady Sif, Gideon Malik, Dr. List, President Ellis, Agent Sitwell, Agent Blake, the Howling Commandos; in AOS, and Young Tony Stark, Zola, and the Commandos again in Agent Carter). These are clearly unmistakably meant to be the same characters that we saw from the movies, and all the marvel TV shows make multiple references to the larger MCU world, including in a few cases on Agents of Shield, being influenced by movie events, so the idea that the tv shows are non-canon kind of doesn't make sense, even with the lack of references in the movies. As long as the films don't do anything that would directly make the TV shows' existences impossible (which, they don't), there is no reason to NOT consider the shows canon. And even if the movies did blatantly contradict the shows, it would only just make them AU, but still existing in a universe where some version of the MCU movies events clearly occurred as part of their world.

** The Asgardians are considered gods because they visited Earth, and humans worshipped them as gods and based an entire religion around them. The same doesn't apply Arishem, Thanos, He Who Remains, etc. It seems godhood is defined by someone being worshipped as one, not by their power level.

It’s not clear what a god is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Since it seems like Arishem from {{Film/The Eternals}} essentially created the Universe, yet he’s never described as a god. While the first two {{ComicBook/Thor}} movies clearly portray the Aesir as {{Sufficiently Advanced Aliens}} rather than gods but the last two characterize them as gods. Speaking of which in {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} Eternity isn’t considered a god but it’s not clear why. Or for that matter how Gorr determines who is or isn’t a god as part of his deicidal killing spree. Also Thanos with the Infinity Stones has the power to destroy the Universe and create a new one to replace it which raises the question of why he’s not considered a god but Thor is. Ditto for He Who Remains from {{Series/Loki}}. With the Egyptian gods from {{Series/Moon Knight}} they’ve got their own afterlife so it makes sense to count them as that but Rapu from {{Film/Thor Love and Thunder}} explicitly says that his pantheon doesn’t have an Afterlife. So I want to know in the MCU, what is a god?

** I don't really understand why this is even a question; it seems like the only real evidence the "non canon" camp has is that the MCU movies do not reference the tv shows, but this alone is not really compelling evidence of the shows being non-canon, especially with how much the shows themselves make it clear that they are taking place in the MCU. ''Series/AgentsOfShield'' and ''Series/AgentCarter'' especially not only are shows revolving around movie specific characters (Agent Coulson and Peggy Carter) played by the same actors as in the movies, but also featured multiple appearances by movie characters in supporting and cameo roles, also played by their movie actors (Nick Fury, Mariah Hill, Lady Sif, Gideon Malik, Dr. List, President Ellis, Agent Sitwell, Agent Blake, the Howling Commandos; in AOS, and Young Tony Stark, Zola, and the Commandos again in Agent Carter). These are clearly unmistakably meant to be the same characters that we saw from the movies, and all the marvel TV shows make multiple references to the larger MCU world, including in a few cases on Agents of Shield, being influenced by movie events, so the idea that the tv shows are non-canon kind of doesn't make sense, even with the lack of references in the movies. As long as the films don't do anything that would directly make the TV shows' existences impossible (which, they don't), there is no reason to NOT consider the shows canon. And even if the movies did blatantly contradict the shows, it would only just make them AU, but still existing in a universe where some version of the MCU movies events clearly occurred as part of their world.

** I don't really understand why this is even a question; it seems like the only real evidence the "non canon" camp has is that the MCU movies do not reference the tv shows, but this alone is not really compelling evidence of the shows being non-canon, especially with how much the shows themselves make it clear that they are taking place in the MCU. ''Series/AgentsOfShield'' and ''Series/AgentCarter'' especially not only are shows revolving around movie specific characters (Agent Coulson and Peggy Carter) played by the same actors as in the movies, but also featured multiple appearances by movie characters in supporting and cameo roles, also played by their movie actors (Nick Fury, Mariah Hill, Lady Sif, Gideon Malik, Dr. List, President Ellis, Agent Sitwell, Agent Blake, the Howling Commandos; in AOS, and Young Tony Stark, Zola, and the Commandos again in Agent Carter). These are clearly unmistakably meant to be the same characters that we saw from the movies, and all the marvel TV shows make multiple references to the larger MCU world, including in a few cases on Agents of Shield, being influenced by movie events, so the idea that the tv shows are non-canon kind of doesn't make sense, even with the lack of references in the movies. As long as the films don't do anything that would directly make the TV shows existences impossible (which, they don't), there is no reason to NOT consider them canon. And even if the movies did blatantly contradict the shows, it would only just make them AU, but still existing in a universe where some version of the MCU movies events clearly occurred as part of their world.

[[folder: The President in MCU]]
* 'Long live the Chief', a rap song performed in Netflix's ''Luke Cage'' mentions Obama, but ''Iron Man 3'' and ''Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'' confirm that their US president is a man named Mathew Ellis. So in the MCU is Obama a man who ran and lost, did he lose in 2012? Or is this just an obvious case of the writers of the show not checking the lyrics of a song for discrepancies with their greater narrative?
** In all reality they probably just didn't think to check the lyrics for discrepancies. I doubt they'll go into depth about previous political campaigns in the shows or movies, so an official answer is pretty slim. But it's easy to figure with all the craziness of the MCU going on, a relatively inexperienced politician like Obama wouldn't have been elected.
** The song says "And her father say I remind him of Obama". We don't need to infer from there that Obama is the president. We can only infer that he's a known public person.
** Plus, Obama may have simply been a one-term president in this timeline.
** In ''Winter Soldier'', one of the books in [[http://www.recknews.com/2016/04/the-11-books-on-captain-americas-shelf Steve Rogers' bookshelf]] is ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama:_The_Story Barack Obama: The Story]]'', which is explicitly about President Obama, published at the tail end of his first term. So it certainly seems Obama served at least one term before Ellis.
*** There is a [[https://screenrant.com/luke-cage-president-obama-ellis/ theory]] that Obama was elected in 2008 as in the real world, but that Ellis defeated Obama's bid for reelection in 2012 due to the sociopolitical ramifications of the fantastical events of the films that obviously didn't happen in our world. Another point is that the creators of ''Luke Cage'' (which is the primary offender in this apparent continuity error) wanted to deal with themes and issues relevant to contemporary African Americans, and it would be weird not to mention the first black president at least once. The other instances of this are likely minor continuity errors and the ''Luke Cage'' examples are a case of social relevance superseding continuity.
** For what it's worth, a ''Series/Runaways2017'' character tells her parents that they "...haven't had a date night since the Obama Administration." in a way that sounds like it had been several years.
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[[folder:S.H.I.E.L.D. and Tesseract weapons]]
* Why is S.H.I.E.L.D. vilified for creating Tesseract weapons? Most of the Avengers act like it's such a horrible thing even though it is a pretty good idea.
** Stark hates weapons manufacturing due to his past as a weapons manufacturer. Rogers and Banner were brought into the mission under the pretenses of recovering an unlimited clean energy source for the good of all. Thor really doesn't care about the weapons part, he's just pointing out that screwing around with the Tesseract is what caught the attention of Loki's benefactors in the first place. Besides, the entire scene makes it very clear that Loki's staff is messing with their heads somehow, as everyone is acting way out of character, to the point where Thor actually seems to be ''drunk''. Which Infinity Gem was the blue one again? Oh, right, it was the [[FridgeBrilliance Mind Gem]].
** Not to mention that the comment is made about alien dangers. Well, what's the one big alien group they've met recently? Oh yeah, Asgardians. It's not a big stretch to think that they are planning on how to use those weapons against the Asgardians if THEY feel it is justified.
** Partly because it's an escalation -- and if S.H.I.E.L.D. gets them, it's really only a matter of time before others do -- partly because it's exactly what Hydra did; and partly because they were hiding the project.
** The WSC proved they couldn't be responsible with them when they ordered New York to be nuked. Leaving them with ''more powerful'' weapons would be even worse.
** They were only irresponsible with a nuke from our perspective where we knew the Avengers would come together and more importantly they would win. InUniverse, trading New York for the world would have been a bargain. Without the nuke, Tony would have had no way to end that conflict, and sooner or later the numbers game would have caught up with the Avengers who were nearing their limits by the end. Besides Tesseract Weapons aren't the same kind of mass destruction as nukes. I'd rather irresponsible people have access to Tesseract weapons and Iron Man Armors were they for the most part have to be actively trying to kill someone to do it than nukes that can't be precision aimed. They were villainized because this is fiction and the government is always wrong. We see similar issues with the Sentinel Program in the X-Men series or CADMUS in DC comics. Apparently, the various governments of the world are supposed to blindly trust that the various superheroes will never turn on them and always triumph.
** The Avengers could have still closed the portal without the aid of the nuke. Then they'd just have to mop up the last of the Chitauri. Fury was watching the fight and showing the footage to the WSC, so both could see the Avengers were doing well. Plus, we see on the Phase 2 screen that Tony brings up to Fury that one of the planned weapons is in fact a Tesseract-powered nuke. That doesn't show the necessity for those weapons by the WSC, but rather a poorly veiled attempt at gaining more control through firepower.
** By doing well you mean pretty literally at the end of their ropes. Hawkeye was out of arrows, Cap was wounded, they'd focused fire on the Hulk and seemed to have been wearing him down. The WSC had no way of knowing when they launched the nuke that the gate even could be closed let alone would be as soon as it was. I'd be willing to bet the Chitauri were just getting started and those sleds are probably their equivalent of motorcycles. They almost definitely have something on par with our jets. Something between the sled and the Leviathan. And the Leviathan was nigh-unstoppable! They were also coming in a bit cocky because Loki "Underestimated"(Read: didn't know about the Avengers) Earthlings and they found more resistance than they expected. Which goes back to the Tesseract and perhaps if NYPD and New York National Guard had weapons on par with [=WW2=] Hydra they would have been much more effective making the nuke less necessary from their point of view. Nick Fury is right when he says we are hopelessly, laughably outgunned in the universe.
** And the WSC went right to the nuke, in a civilian population center, and never even thought about any other options. Yeah, the Chitauri were tearing up the place, but outside the Avengers their only resistance was unarmed civilians and lightly armed police. Black Widow demonstrated Bullets kill the Chitauri just fine, and the sleds were awesome but impractical. Only the Leviathans might have been a real problem. And although the Chitauri is more technologically advanced, they aren't that great on tactics, which consisted of zerg rushing. The WSC overreacted.
** "Never even thought about any other options"? Citation needed on that one. What we see is the result of their deliberations, and we never see their deliberations. They present it to Fury as, "The Council has made their decision," indicating that they've discussed the situation and determined the nuke to be the best option. The WSC has to work with a complete lack of any intel regarding the threat they face; there is an impenetrable force field holding open a portal through which seemingly infinite numbers of enemy soldiers are flooding through, coming from an enemy force that has achieved space travel, and nothing further is known about this. The WSC has no way of knowing how many enemy soldiers they would have to deal with in a direct battle: millions? Hundreds of millions? ''Billions''? Yes, they can be killed with standard arms, but how many aliens can come through that portal? How many Leviathans are there? Is there anything worse than Leviathans? They are faced with an enemy through which no information about any aspect of the battle exists anywhere in the world, and the only sure way to win such a battle is to cut off the portal itself, which can't be penetrated by any force that's been applied to it thus far. Reducing the area to a crater was the best idea they had to kill the portal and end the invasion.
** "Reducing the area to a crater" is NEVER the best idea. It is, literally, the last resort. To use Fury's phrasing, they either jumped to the worst-case scenarios to justify their "stupid-ass decision," or somehow looked at a conventional arms response by the military and made the 'stupid-ass decision' to not use it. Yes, the army would have taken a while to get there in any considerable numbers, but it would certainly have been able to respond with less loss of life, not to mention damage to the ecosystem and the collective psyche of the planet. You don't go blowing up your own cities. Lack of intel is a major reason NOT to use the nuke. You get boots on the ground and you size up your enemy.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Mjolnir and Steve]]
* Why exactly can't Steve lift the hammer in ''Age of Ultron''? Thor had troubled his first go-around because he forgot his duty to self-sacrifice in defense of those he has to protect. Steve was already willing to fall on a grenade to save others before he got his powers. By what standard is he not worthy? What exactly has Thor done that Cap hasn't?
** It is a popular theory that Steve was able to lift it, but decided not to, maybe because he saw Thor's shocked reaction and did not want to embarrass him or draw any attention to himself (Thor was basically boasting that he was sure no one of the Avengers could lift it). Joss Whedon himself hinted at this theory when he was asked this question ("Are you sure he could not lift it? Or did he simply stop?") so this is my canon now. But I guess we can never know for sure now since RIP Mjölnir.
** It has been well-explained in the movie itself. Thor loves a good fight, but he now fights for the peace and safety of others. He had his Character Development and "doesn't seek war, but is always ready for it". Steve on the other hand has nothing but the war left since almost all he knew from his original life is dead and gone. His greatest nightmare is peace, and it is implied he gets angry at Tony's plan to use Ultron to prevent war not just because it is oppressive, but also because it would indeed establish peace and make Cap feel useless. He always fights a good fight, but he can't live without it. As such, he's not worthy.
* Avengers: Endgame says otherwise. Steve Rogers lifts and wields Mjolnir during the film[[note]]there has been unconfirmed comments by filmmakers (both scriptwriters and Kevin Feige himself, if rumors are to be believed) to various third parties mentioning talking to these people that Steve could absolutely pick up the hammer in Age of Ultron, but chose not to (for reasons that may include not wanting to diminish Thor's pride). Which would be just more proof he was always worthy.[[/note]]
[[/folder]]

* ''Headscratchers/{{Moon Knight|2022}}''