History ContinuitySnarl / Hawkman

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. It is also theorised by Ray Palmer that the reincarnations are not only non-linear, but that they can somehow co-exist. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained (although it's implied in the story that this new Carter reincarnated from the New 52 Katar after ''Death of Hawkman''), nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his use of Carter's name. The snarl is reignited when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, co-existing with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and it being established that Kendra was created ''after'' Shayera. (Shayara's appearance in ''Comicbook/JusticeLeague2018'' confuses things further since she ''meets'' Kendra, and the weirdness of this is noted but not explained, while the fact she's got an apparently-resurrected Katar (it's an Absorbacon illusion) when Carter is still around is presented as a serious anomaly without explaining what the difference is.) Shayera would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being ''subsequent'' reincarnations of the two!

At least until ''ComicBook/Hawkgirl2023'' which addresses that Kendra exists in a position where she still has her past reincarnations' memories but isn't part of the cycle anymore. This is fixed in the end when she sacrifices all of her previous memories in order to fix the barrier between

* Carter Hall (Hawkman) and Shiera Sanders (Hawkwoman) are now active members of the Justice Society of America

* Whilst Charley Parker/Ch'al Andar aka '''Golden Eagle''' has yet to appear in the modern day, his history as the Golden Eagle of the Titans West remains intact (per ''ComicBook/DarkNightsDeathMetal The Last Stories of the DC Universe) whilst also appearing in the flashback series ''ComicBook/WorldsFinestTeenTitans'' as having retired from costumed heroism to become the Teen Titans' social media manager sometime before the establishment of the Titans West.

* Ktar Deathbringer and Shrra reincarnate across space and time
* Carter Hall (Hawkman) and Shiera Sanders (Hawkwoman) are active members of the Justice Society of America
* Kendra Saunders is the current Hawkgirl
* Hector Hall seemingly still exists as Silver Beetle in the Infinity Inc. although a version of the character named Hektor Hol conceptually appeared as one of the Round Robin entry ''"Hawkman & Hawkwoman: The Changeling"'' by Cavan Scott, Fico Ossio and Michael [=McCalister=]

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. It is also theorised by Ray Palmer that the reincarnations are not only non-linear, but that they can somehow co-exist. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his use of Carter's name. The snarl is reignited when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, co-existing with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and it being established that Kendra was created ''after'' Shayera. (Shayara's appearance in ''Comicbook/JusticeLeague2018'' confuses things further since she ''meets'' Kendra, and the weirdness of this is noted but not explained, while the fact she's got an apparently-resurrected Katar (it's an Absorbacon illusion) when Carter is still around is presented as a serious anomaly without explaining what the difference is.) Shayera would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being ''subsequent'' reincarnations of the two!

* Hector Hall seemingly still exists as Silver Beetle in the Infinity Inc. although a version of the character named Hektor Hol conceptually appeared as one of the Round Robin entry '''''"Hawkman & Hawkwoman: The Changeling"''''' by Cavan Scott, Fico Ossio and Michael McCalister
* Whilst Charley Parker/Ch'al Andar aka '''Golden Eagle''' has yet to appear in the modern day, his history as the Golden Eagle of the Titans West remains intact (per Dark Nights: Death Metal The Last Stories of the DC Universe#1) whilst also appearing in the flashback series ''ComicBook/WorldsFinestTeenTitans'' as having retired from costumed heroism to become the Teen Titans' social media manager

And there you have it (for now). A backstory so convoluted it took a full [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E2ShadowOfTheHawk two]] [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E11AncientHistory episodes]] of ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' to even scratch the surface. Well... So long as you don't count [[SignificantAnagram Hro Talak]]. And notably, Hawkman's first major film appearance in ''Film/BlackAdam2022'' doesn't even ''attempt'' to go with any of these origins and just introduces him as an already-established hero with no explicit allusions made to his backstory. Meanwhile, most depictions go with Carter Hall with Katar showing up in ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'' (in his ADayInTheLimelight episode, he says that the Batcave looks like headquarters on Thanagar), ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' and ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueAction''.

And there you have it (for now). A backstory so convoluted it took a full [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E2ShadowOfTheHawk two]] [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E11AncientHistory episodes]] of ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' to even scratch the surface. Well... So long as you don't count [[SignificantAnagram Hro Talak]]. And notably, Hawkman's first major film appearance in ''Film/BlackAdam2022'' doesn't even ''attempt'' to go with any of these origins and just introduces him as an already-established hero with no explicit allusions made to his backstory. Meanwhile, most depictions go with Carter Hall with Katar showing up in ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'' (in his ADayInTheLimelightEpisode, he says that the Batcave looks like headquarters on Thanagar), ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' and ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueAction''.

And there you have it (for now). A backstory so convoluted it took a full [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E2ShadowOfTheHawk two]] [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E11AncientHistory episodes]] of ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' to even scratch the surface. Well... So long as you don't count [[SignificantAnagram Hro Talak]]. And notably, Hawkman's first major film appearance in ''Film/BlackAdam2022'' doesn't even ''attempt'' to go with any of these origins and just introduces him as an already-established hero with no explicit allusions made to his backstory.

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. It is also theorised by Ray Palmer that the reincarnations are not only non-linear, but that they can somehow co-exist. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his use of Carter's name. The snarl is reignited when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, co-existing with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and it being established that Kendra was created ''after'' Shayera. (Shayara's appearance in ''Comicbook/JusticeLeague2018'' confuses things further since she ''meets'' Kendra, and the weirdness of this is noted but not explained, while the fact she's got an apparently-resurrected Katar when Carter is still around is presented as a serious anomaly without explaining what the difference is.) Shayera would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being ''subsequent'' reincarnations of the two!

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. It is also theorised by Ray Palmer that the reincarnations are not only non-linear, but that they can somehow co-exist. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his use of Carter's name. The snarl is reignited when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, co-existing with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and it being established that Kendra was created ''after'' Shayera. (Shayara's appearance in ''Comicbook/JusticeLeague2018'' confuses things further since she ''meets'' Kendra, and the weirdness of this is noted but not explained,) Shayera would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being ''subsequent'' reincarnations of the two!

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. It is also theorised by Ray Palmer that the reincarnations are not only non-linear, but that they can somehow co-exist. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his use of Carter's name. The snarl is reignited when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, co-existing with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and it being established that Kendra was created ''after'' Shayera. Shayera would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being ''subsequent'' reincarnations of the two!

Some years later, James Robinson, Creator/GeoffJohns and David Goyer revived the Justice Society in the series ''JSA'', but how can we have that team without the Hawks? So they established that Shiera's soul escaped from the Hawkgod and reincarnated in Kendra Saunders, the new Hawkgirl, who had no memory of her previous lives, which also allowed them to ignore the snarl. Geoff Johns continued from there, and brought Hawkman (Carter Hall) back. He merged both origin stories: a ship from Thanagar crashed in ancient Egypt, and Prince Khufu and his wife Chay-Ara got access to their tech and the Nth metal. They were killed by the priest Hath-Set and reincarnated several times. Also, since Carter Hall absorbed Katar Hol's memories while they were the Hawkgod, you can just consider Katar an unofficial reincarnation. The Golden Eagle conundrum was also dealt with by revealing that the boy was the son of Fel Andar and Sharon Parker, with his costume having been given to him by his father. If we skip the disaster between ''Crisis'' and ''Zero Hour'', things mostly make sense.

And there you have it (for now). A backstory so convoluted it took a full [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E2ShadowOfTheHawk two]] [[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E11AncientHistory episodes]] of ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueUnlimited'' to even scratch the surface. Well... So long as you don't count [[SignificantAnagram Hro Talak]].

But then things got really screwed up with the 1989 miniseries ''Hawkworld''. In it, Katar Hol is an alien on Thanagar and ends up partnered with Shayera Thal II. Okay, fine, it could just be a more detailed version of the JLI Katar's origin... but then the popularity of the miniseries led to a ''Hawkworld'' '''ongoing series''', which took place in the present day, and had Katar and Shayera come to Earth in pursuit of the criminal Byth. This is what started it all. It meant that the original ''Hawkworld'' was ''not'' a retelling of the origin, but a completely new one: now we had '''two''' Katar Hol Hawkmen around.

Trying to fix ''that'' mess, it was established that the Hawkman that joined the JLI was actually the spy Fel Andar from Thanagar -- an alternate version of whom had briefly appeared pre-Crisis, there named "Fell Andar" with two Ls -- who took the false identity of Carter Hall Jr., the son of the reincarnating Hawkman who was currently in Limbo. Even worse, he brainwashed his girlfriend Sharon Parker to make her believe that she was Shayera, Hawkgirl, and killed her when she learned the truth. And to add to this mess, Hector Hall, the ''actual'' son of Carter Hall, was still alive post-Crisis. Around this time, Carter Hall and the rest of the Justice Society were brought back from Limbo as well.

Some years later, James Robinson, Creator/GeoffJohns and David Goyer revived the Justice Society in the series ''JSA'', but how can we have that team without the Hawks? So they established that Shiera's soul escaped from the Hawkgod and reincarnated in Kendra Saunders, the new Hawkgirl, who had no memory of her previous lives, which also allowed them to ignore the snarl. Geoff Johns continued from there, and brought Hawkman (Carter Hall) back. He merged both origin stories: a ship from Thanagar crashed in ancient Egypt, and Prince Khufu and his wife Chay-Ara got access to their tech and the Nth metal. They were killed by the priest Hath-Set and reincarnated several times. Also, since Carter Hall absorbed Katar Hol's memories while they were the Hawkgod, you can just consider Katar an unofficial reincarnation. If we skip the disaster between ''Crisis'' and ''Zero Hour'', things mostly make sense.

''ComicBook/Hawkman2018'' fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his using of Carter's name. Not helping matters is how Catar-Ol of Krypton was alive during Krypton's destruction, however the timing of it (Superman must be a baby during it due to his origin, and Carter was alive before Clark's birth and never died) means that he ''co-existed'' with Carter Hall! This was made worse when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, meaning she ''also'' co-exists with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being subsequent reincarnations of the two!

The 2018 ''Hawkman'' series fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his using of Carter's name. Not helping matters is how Catar-Ol of Krypton was alive during Krypton's destruction, however the timing of it (Superman must be a baby during it due to his origin, and Carter was alive before Clark's birth and never died) means that he ''co-existed'' with Carter Hall! This was made worse when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, meaning she ''also'' co-exists with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around. That series ended with Carter and Shayera earning their happy ending after their reincarnation was explicitly taken away, leaving them to live out their final lives... ignoring that this means Katar and Kendra shouldn't exist, being subsequent reincarnations of the two!

The 2018 ''Hawkman'' series fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-Ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his using of Carter's name. Not helping matters is how Catar-Ol of Krypton was alive during Krypton's destruction, however the timing of it (Superman must be a baby during it due to his origin, and Carter was alive before Clark's birth and never died) means that he ''co-existed'' with Carter Hall! This was made worse when Shayera Thal ''somehow'' returned as well without any explanation, meaning she ''also'' co-exists with Kendra -- since they look the same age and Shayera apparently never died -- and would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around.

Most DC characters were reimagined during the [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]], but with new powers, origins, suits and names, and often with a more science-fiction and less fantasy-genre concept. Now Hawkman and Hawkgirl were Katar and Shayera Hol, alien cops from the planet Thanagar who came to Earth in pursuit of a criminal named Byth Rok. They had wings made of Nth metal. The police gave them secret identities as Carter and Shiera Hall. No problems so far: the new Hawkman makes perfect sense, and the old one could be simply considered EarlyInstallmentWeirdness. The Pandora's box was opened by Flash, in the "Flash of Two Worlds" story. It established that all the old DC characters were still alive on Earth-Two, an AlternateUniverse, including Hawkman. Which meant that there were two completely different and unrelated Hawkmen and Hawkgirls running around (along with two different Flashes, Green Lanterns, etc.; but let's just stick to Hawkman). However, as the characters lived on separate Earths it was still pretty easy to distinguish them from each other and keep track of their origins.

But then things got screwed, with the 1989 miniseries ''Hawkworld''. In it, Katar Hol is an alien on Thanagar and ends up partnered with Shayera Thal II. Okay, fine, it could just be a more detailed version of the JLI Katar's origin... but then the popularity of the miniseries led to a ''Hawkworld'' '''ongoing series''', which took place in the present day, and had Katar and Shayera come to Earth in pursuit of the criminal Byth. This is what started it all. It meant that the original ''Hawkworld'' was ''not'' a retelling of the origin, but a completely new one: now we had '''two''' Katar Hol Hawkmen around.

Hawkman was first created by Gardner Fox during the [[UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]]. He was Carter Hall, an archaeologist, who found an ancient dagger. He discovered that he was the reincarnation of the ancient Egyptian prince Khufu. He created his suit with the Nth metal, and fought alongside the reincarnation of Khufu's wife Chay-Ara. The character notably became one of the most prominent founding members of the ComicBook/JusticeSocietyOfAmerica. His series was eventually cancelled, along with all of DC's superhero comics of the time (except for Franchise/{{Superman}}, Franchise/{{Batman}} and Franchise/WonderWoman).

The 2018 ''Hawkman'' series fixed some of the post-''New 52'' mess by revealing that Hawkman didn't just reincarnate through time, but through space as well, meaning he was both Carter Hall ''and'' Katar Hol at one point or another, as well as others like Catar-ol of Krypton, and Katarthul of Ranna. His new origin is essentially a fusion of his ''New 52'' and Earth-2 origins with the tangles brushed out. However, Carter Hall never actually died, so why he reincarnated as Katar Hol hasn't been explained, nor has Kendra's ignoring of Katar or his using of Carter's name. Not helping matters is how Catar-Ol of Krypton was alive during Krypton's destruction, however the timing of it (Superman must be a baby during it due to his origin, and Carter was alive before Clark's birth and never died) means that he ''co-existed'' with Carter Hall! This was made worse when Shayera Thal returned as well, meaning she ''also'' co-exists with Kendra, and would go on to hang out with Carter Hall ''a lot'', and the two act romantic without ever once acknowledging that Kendra is still alive and around.