This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Describe Vain Sorceress Discussion here.
Jordan: Does anyone remember the name of Elionwy's aunt from the Prydian Chronicles- she was exactly like the Wicked Queen of Snow White. Also, I don't know if he coined it, but I remember reading a Terry Pratchett comment that an enchantress is a "witch with good legs"- that quote might be applicable.
Tzintzuntzan: The aunt's name is Achren. It's been a long time since I've read the books, but IIRC, Achren isn't really vain. Yes, she looks eternally young, but the story doesn't focus on that; her main motive is wanting to win back the power she lost to Arawn. (Again, this is relying on nearly fifteen-year-old memories, so correct me if I'm wrong.)
Jordan: I think you're right, although it is interesting that she is eternally young given the series' similarity to Lord of the Rings- her equivalent would be Saruman who of course is an aged wizard. Also, she eventually loses her youth with a loss of power.
I wonder if I should include Elizabeth Bathory (spelling?) as a real-life example- killing her maids and bathing in their blood to preserve her youth.
Tzintzuntzan: That is how it's spelled in English -- Erzsebet Bathory in Magyar. But it's very unlikely that she's a real-life example. According to the witnesses at her trial, her murders were all done veeery slowly and painfully, usually in her torture chamber. Her main motive seems to have been pure sadism, due to either enviornment or heredity. (She had a really screwed up family; they almost certainly either abused her, trained her in sadism, or both.) The stories of bathing in virgin's blood (and of the original accident that made her want to do it) seem to have been invented a century later, and they aren't mentioned in the trial testimony.
However, that actually supports this trope. It's been speculated that the virgin's blood story arose because historians of the day couldn't believe a woman could enjoy hurting people -- it has to be because she's vain. Which is precisely what the original author of this trope (not me -- who is it?)seems to be complaining about.
Jordan: Thanks for that info, that is really interesting. I knew about the torture and sadism but had always assumed that her motivation was to preserve beauty, and never knew that it wasn't included in the original account.
Meiriona I think Erzebet should be removed, or at least have that she bathed in blood removed as fact, because it's not. It's something added on to her story, and since beauty and vanity were not part of the truth. She's not really valid.
Medinoc: I'm not sure about the Record Of Lodoss War example: IIRC, Karla lives only in her piece of jewelry, so it's more a possession case than a Grand Theft Me...
H. Torrance Griffin: I recall Selene (AKA the Hellfire Club's Black Queen) routinely dines on life force to keep the ravages of time at bay. Of course it can be justly argued that since she is in fact a few thousand years old it isnotso much vanity as self preservation, but holding steady at 70 or so may be more effecient than her usual 35-at-most.
