This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
I cut out: "in Japan, where both the genders are treated in fiction more like equals, which includes equal drawbacks" because, oh come on, as if!
Whoever wrote that needs to stay awake in English Class instead of sleeping under a pile of Magical Girl manga. Sure, sure, when they aren't infantized (Moe Moe), defined by their co-dependance with a boy(Harem), objectified (Magical Girlfriend), or treated like every sliver of self-sufficiency, confidence, and assertiveness is due to being emotionally stunted (Tsundere, which also means they're in wuv) or in denial of their inherent "I need a male protector" female nature (So many Bokkukos an Tsunderes) or treated as unsure and not confident of their gender and socio-gender identity (because every Tsundere and Bokkuko is really an immature Yamato Nadeshiko who needs boyfriend-san to help her blossom, seriously. It's getting better with time, and the sexism is regulated to undertones most of the time. But come on-we had Hester from The Scarlet Letter when Japan was an Isolationist nation and Sarah Connor when they had Sailor Moon. Japanese fiction being less sexist my ass.
Seriously, Why the hell wrote that? I want their head served to me cold!
...Woah. Jesus. Slow down their tonto. Deep breaths now...
Silent Hunter: On a related subject, has anyone noticed that when a Wrench Wench gets dirty, it's always "artistic" dirt?
Clerval: You know, I'm really not that sure this is a mostly-women trope, at least not these days. No one hot, no matter what their gender, ends up with missing teeth, or oozing pus, and though they may get bruises they will never puff up and turn purple, spoiling the contours of their pretty, pretty faces. Men are more likely to get into fights in the first place, but if they're the handsome male lead, their faces are almost never going to end up messed up that badly, and the damage will probably be gone by the next scene. For example, one doesn't think of Indiana Jones as possessing girly, damage-repelling beauty, but in the scene in Raiders where Marion is trying to tend his wounds and there's supposed to be barely an inch of him that doesn't hurt, his face is fine. It's often men who sport those pleasing go-faster-stripe cuts along a cheekbone, like this
◊. Even a newly-broken nose looks no worse than this
◊ in TV-land. The very first thing I thought of when I saw this title was Supernatural, whose two leads should be covered with scars, but... aren't. After they were both raked across the face by and ended up with deep cuts that should have left marks for life, the actors even started joking about "WB ointment" that explained why they were good as new the next episode.
VAD: I think Supernatural did subvert it once, though. Their scars from Devil's Trap lasted all the way through to Everybody Loves A Clown (so three episodes) but other than that, if they got scarred, their pretty faces always went back to normal the next episode.
Ross N: I don't know... I can never imagine a female lead on a Live Action show losing an eye like Xander from Buffy The Vampire Slayer or Saul Tigh from Battlestar Galactica.
Now I agree it is pretty rare for lead guys to suffer that kind of permanent damage, but rare is still more common than non-existant.
Clerval: Well, there's whatshername from Kill Bill. And Saul Tigh isn't what you'd call hot, so I don't know if he really counts. But yes, I can agree that the rare, rare attractive lead character who ends up with some horrible and permanent facial injury is more likely to be male but in general I just think the TV universe wouldn't hit a hottie of any gender.
Ross N: I think the issue is that there are so few genuinely unattractive (as against Hollywood Homely) actresses in leading roles. There are much more often physically unattractive men on TV so while the intent may not be sexist (or at least be down to a different type of sexism) male characters are much more likely to be put through the wringer.
Clerval: I feel weird being the one saying "It's not sexist," I mean, I think practically everything's sexist. But while I agree that plain, funny-looking and ugly men are more accepted on TV than plain, funny-looking and ugly women (which of course IS sexist), that wouldn't change the principle that such men on show who are pretty are rarely going to get their looks spoiled in the course of a film or episode. Hence the principle "beauty is never tarnished" would apply at least, nearly equally (if not quite) to both genders. Which is lookist, but not intrinsically sexist.
Of course, there's the separate point that scar make-up must be a bugger to keep applying, so convenience is also on the side of beauty here.
Nornagest: Cut half the Star Wars examples:
- ** Although it doesn't leave a mark, Leia is subjected to a nasty interrogation in Episode IV involving a droid with a needle. In Episode VI she gets shot.** Aunt Beru? She ends up as a charred skeleton.** Jabba the Hutt feeds a Twi'lek dancing girl to his rancor.
"Doesn't leave a mark" is pretty much the definition of this trope. Aunt Beru is not conventionally beautiful and isn't exactly recognizable as Aunt Beru after her death. The dancing girl's death happens offscreen, and we never see a body (aside from some anonymous bones that may or may not belong to an earlier victim).
YSKTA: It seems that there's more exceptions than actual examples on this page.
Monsund:Agreed we need examples not exceptions
Madrugada: It's probably worth noting that this trope is largely discredited in current films, and has been since the first Terminator movie. Linda Hamilton looked hot while dirty and disheveled, and the fans were extremely vocal about liking it. Directors realized that they didn't have to keep beauty untarnished. Yes, I know that Ripley did dirty and disheveled first in Alien, but that was seen by Hollywood as an anomaly. When it happened a second time, they were convinced.
SpiriTsunami: Well, it's the type of trope that lends itself to the aversions being noticed, because unless you can specifically pick out frequent examples of male "beauty" being tarnished, yet it never happens to females, you can't definitively call it this trope. It should of course be noted that this is far from Truth in Television. Or maybe I just live in a strange part of the world. Regardless, at least when I was younger, this was averted in the first case and inverted in the second with most of my peers—and in both cases, the female I know the best—my sister—is an inversion. She's happy when an injury leaves a scar, it's a point of pride. Yes, I know, I live with some strange people.
Monsund:I think the only exceptions we should list are when a female being used for physical comedy as that is pretty rare.
Sand Josieph: Should we split off the male examples or something as men are expected to get messed up and I'm finding it surprising that they need to mentioned here.
