So basically, the "Did she really love her?" conundrum is so intense that cleanup decided to screw it and not try to consider Gothel for the Complete Monster thread.
Edited by manhandled
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
I removed this from Alternative Character Interpretation:
- Rapunzel is portrayed as the hero, but in all honesty she doesn't leave to get away from Gothel, rather because she wants to do something she was forbidden to do, and she even admits it would be wrong to do this anyway.
What did that have to do with different character interpretations?
Edited by 80.212.53.13 Hide / Show Replies
Some people see Rapunzel as the hero and admirable, some that as making her immoral and not admirable?
As long as that point is made more obvious I don't see why it can't count.
Edited by 50.165.123.235
From the trope page: Alternative Character Interpretation is when "a character is subject to multiple interpretations about precisely who they are and what makes them tick". The example I removed wasn't about that, but about judging Rapunzel's morals. It's clearly stated in the film that her motivation is seeing the lights and that she thinks defying Gothel is wrong, but does it anyway.
Edited by 193.157.206.77
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
A case of responding instead of repairing contained this:
- Not necessarily. We don't get to explore it in much detail since it happens near the end, but after The Reveal of Gothel's lies and subsequent Family Unfriendly Deaths of those closest to her, Rapunzel is shown to be more subdued from then on. Just look at the difference between how she interacts with her subjects during the lantern festival and the epilogue. Before, she's very sunny and energetic. After, she's more calm, reserved, and almost maternal. It seems implied that the trauma she underwent that day took a lot of wind out of her sails.
Didn't she act more reserved the second time because she knew she was royal and wanted to act appropriately?
Edited by 193.157.195.131
I know it's YMMV, but this seems slightly questionable:
- Protagonist-Centered Morality: Part of the issue on whether Gothel is really all that bad or not. After all, how many peasants had died between Gothel's finding the flower and the royal guards digging it up? If she's not obligated to use or give the flower to any given sick or injured person (although one could argue that this is still pretty selfish of her), why is she selfish for not giving the flower to the Queen?
Regardless of what you think of Gothel or her motives, it seems pretty clear (to me, at least) that we're supposed to think of Gothel as selfish in general, not just because she deprived the Queen; the opening narration even notes that she "hoarded the flower instead of sharing its gifts", which would seem to imply that we're supposed to think of it as bad that she doesn't share it around in general, not just because of the Queen. In any case, the Queen's hardly a protagonist, and we're clearly supposed to think of Gothel as bad beyond her actions to just her.
"I don't see how the anvil example fit since Flynn did show love to Tangled, while Mother Gothel's love was always fake; even if there was the moral, it doesn't feel heavy handed at all"
I wrote that entry on Some Anvils Need Tob Be Dropped. Also, it's because Gothel can show affection for Rapunzel but it's basically emotional abuse. Many mothers demonstrate the gestures and actions that she has, and it's love marred with emotionally destroying the object of your affection. Gothel has a Secretly Selfish motive, but there are hints in the movie that she could have been better. Love can be poisonous and toxic, which is why it needs to be paired with respect for the person you adore, and a desire to listen to their wishes.