YMMV Supernatural Discussion

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04:17:09 PM Jun 2nd 2015
Lots of overuse of Magnificent Bastard. The trope is about more than just trickery.

  • Ruby tricks everyone else into thinking she's a traitor, gains the trust of people like Sam and Anna (and a good chunk of viewers) who know that demons like her are evil, convinces Sam that it's a good idea to start drinking her blood and using his demon powers, tricks him into killing Lilith, and single-handedly almost destroys the brothers' relationship—which no other villain has come close to doing—all without anyone realizing her true plans. And that's all without taking into consideration how much Xanatos Speed Chess she must have played in each individual episode, like "Jus in Bello".

Ruby is The Chessmaster extraordinaire, but a magnificent bastard also has to have a certain charisma and likability that she lacks. Even when she was supposedly on the side of good, she still came across as a pain.

  • Lucifer is charismatic, calm, and calculating. He knows how to use people's emotional pain and doubts against them and actually succeeded in gaining Sam as his vessel by season 5 finale.

Lucifer is certainly charismatic enough, but he's too much of a brute to qualify. He's the best in the universe at pummelling people (and nonhuman life forms), but he's not so great at the manipulation and trickery that is the MO of any real magnificent bastard.

  • Metatron. He brings down Heaven itself with his cunning.

Again, a magnificent bastard must be a charismatic as well as skilled manipulator. Metatron is such a douchebag that even after he literally becomes a god he still feels too pathetic to be a real threat.
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11:35:54 AM May 30th 2015
  • Villain Sue: Bela and Crowley. Both of them consistently catch the Winchesters flat-footed, to the point of making many viewers wondering if they have some kind of permanent spell about them that reduces the Winchesters' IQ points. Crowley, however, does it more through being smart than blind luck, and people are more lenient of it thanks to Mark Sheppard's performance.

For god's sake, not every character that's good at something or has a power is a Mary Sue! Yes, Crowley is great at manipulating and tricking the heroes, but he does not "consistently" catch them flat-footed. Look at the way Bobby Singer Out Gambits him to get his soul back. "The Man Who Would Be King" establishes that the reason he feels the need to trick them so much is because he's terrified of what they would do to him if they made him their full-time enemy. Castiel plays him throughout S6 and ultimately ensured Crowley got none of the power he was after. Kevin pulls one over on him in the S7 finale to get out of capture and very nearly kill all demons permanently. Sam and Dean trick him into letting them use him for the Third Trial in the S8 finale. Abaddon basically made Crowley her bitch whenever the two are on screen together and in the end Crowley only wins because Dean kills Abaddon for him. He's visibly terrified by the mere presence of Cain. Badass? Definitely. Marty Stu? No.
Larkmarn
Topic
11:00:39 AM May 7th 2015
Um.

Under Seasonal Rot, every single season after 2 gets listed. That... has to be misuse.
SeptimusHeap
11:23:35 AM May 7th 2015
Different people will agree on different seasons, I think.
Larkmarn
11:41:32 AM May 7th 2015
It just seems like a dumping ground for every little complaint someone has about each season.
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