History YMMV / Supernatural

11th Nov '17 10:40:57 PM karategal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Processed food makes you fat and stupid. Also, the food industry is run by monsters who don't see you as much more than cattle to be exploited. Considering how much Sam and especially [[BigEater Dean]] enjoyed processed food and food in general in Seasons 1 - 6, it seems to be less Anvilicious and more just a smart plan by Dick Roman... everyone has to eat after all. As for companies being treated that way, it seems to be less the companies than the eternally hungry Leviathans possessing/pretending to be those in the companies.

to:

** Processed food makes you fat and stupid. Also, the food industry is run by monsters who don't see you as much more than cattle to be exploited. Considering how much Sam and especially [[BigEater Dean]] enjoyed processed food and food in general in Seasons 1 - -- 6, it seems to be less Anvilicious and more just a smart plan by Dick Roman... everyone has to eat after all. As for companies being treated that way, it seems to be less the companies than the eternally hungry Leviathans possessing/pretending to be those in the companies.



** Also in season 11, Sam's death by gunshot. [[spoiler:He was actually in shock and had no problem taking out two non-bleeding werewolves minutes after waking up.]]

to:

** Also in season Season 11, Sam's death by gunshot. [[spoiler:He was actually in shock and had no problem taking out two non-bleeding werewolves minutes after waking up.]]



** Crowley. By Season 10 he comes and goes more or less at the Winchesters beck and call, seems genuinely upset that they don't consider him a friend, and has lost almost all of his viciousness and cunning. Gets [[LampshadeHanging called on it]] by his own mother and Dean of all people.

to:

** Crowley. By Season 10 10, he comes and goes more or less at the Winchesters beck and call, seems genuinely upset that they don't consider him a friend, and has lost almost all of his viciousness and cunning. Gets [[LampshadeHanging called on it]] by his own mother and Dean of all people.



** For a while, Sam was on a downward spiral starting with Season 9, where he got knocked out in almost every single episode of that season, even after he [[spoiler:Gadreel was expelled from his body and subsequently healed of the damage the Hell Gate Trials had done to his body]]. It's ridiculous how many times Sam - a supposed veteran hunter who has previously displayed an immense amount of prowess in combat - is so easily incapacitated in service of another plot, either [[spoiler:giving Gadreel a chance to show himself]] or [[spoiler:giving Dean an opportunity to show how badly the Mark of Cain is starting to affect him]].

to:

** For a while, Sam was on a downward spiral starting with Season 9, where he got knocked out in almost every single episode of that season, even after he [[spoiler:Gadreel was expelled from his body and subsequently healed of the damage the Hell Gate Trials had done to his body]]. It's ridiculous how many times Sam - -- a supposed veteran hunter who has previously displayed an immense amount of prowess in combat - -- is so easily incapacitated in service of another plot, either [[spoiler:giving Gadreel a chance to show himself]] or [[spoiler:giving Dean an opportunity to show how badly the Mark of Cain is starting to affect him]].



** Lilith, from seasons 3 and 4, is the oldest demon in existence, and one of the worst. She massacres a police station, killing everyone that Sam and Dean had just finished saving, uses her position as [[spoiler:the holder of [[{{Jerkass}} Bela]]'s [[DealWithTheDevil contract]]]] to try and force her to kill Sam, and keeps a personal chef on hand to prepare [[EatsBabies human infants]] for her to eat. Lilith also has a thing for [[DemonicPossession possessing]] [[EnfanteTerrible little girls]], destroying their families from the inside out for her own personal amusement. In the season 3 finale, she holds a family hostage, killing the grandfather for making her mad, and has Dean dragged off to Hell, laughing the entire time. Reappearing in season 4, Lilith reveals that her current plan is to free [[{{Satan}} Lucifer]], bringing about TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt. When she discovers that [[spoiler:freeing Lucifer will ensure her death]], she tries to back out, offering to put off the apocalypse if Sam and Dean will let her kill them. Defeated by Sam in the season 4 finale, [[spoiler:Lilith [[SuicideByCop goads him into finishing her]], knowing that her death will result in the [[KillAllHumans deaths of all humanity]]]].
** [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Alastair]], from season 4, is described by Ruby as Hell's "[[TortureTechnician Grand Inquisitor...Picasso with a razor]]." [[TheDreaded Feared by demons well beyond Angels]], he is responsible for supervising the [[ColdBloodedTorture torture]] of all of Hell's newly-arrived souls, corrupting them into demons. Having already tortured John Winchester for a hundred years, when Dean arrives in Hell, Alastair tortures him every day, [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice impaling him with hooks and chains]], [[FlayedAlive flaying]] and dismembering his entire body-- which no matter the damage would then heal the next day so he could start again- for thirty years. Each day he offers to stop if Dean will [[DealWithTheDevil accept his offer]] and torment other souls on Alastair's behalf. Unbeknownst to Dean when he finally breaks, by doing so he broke one of the seals imprisoning Lucifer, a fact that Alastair [[MindRape psychologically tortures]] Dean with during their subsequent encounters. [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E09IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer During]] the [[SupernaturalS04E10HeavenAndHell hunt]] for Anna Milton, Alastair [[SlashedThroat slits her parents' throats]]. When Ruby approaches him offering to give him Anna in exchange for sparing her, Sam and Dean, Alastair instead captures Ruby and brutally vivisects her with her own knife, before [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown beating Castiel senseless]], which Cas only survives because Alastair isn't powerful enough to kill an angel. He also scrambles Dean's organs when he tries to save Cas. To break another seal he murders a Reaper and attempts to murder Tessa [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E15DeathTakesAHoliday later in the series]], pausing only to demonstrate to the brothers just how painful rock salt is to a spirit. [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E16OnTheHeadOfAPin Doing his best]] to kill Sam and Dean, he brutally beats then attempts to banish Castiel, before finally being killed by Sam. Living only to cause others suffering and [[{{Sadist}} enjoying every single moment of it]], Alastair, despite his relatively low body count, is one of the worst demons in the series.
** The leader of the [[EldritchAbomination Leviathans]] from season 7, commonly known by the assumed name Dick Roman, not content with simply lurking in the shadows to feed on humanity, planted his minions in key positions, murdering and devouring every human in the way. Taking control of a major company, Roman began to place chemicals in corn syrup so humanity would be rendered helpless as cattle for the Leviathans to feed on. The Winchesters, who he knew could prove an issue, he framed for a nation-wide killing spree. [[spoiler:Other monster species were seen as "competition," with Roman planning to exterminate them as well after manipulating them into helping him.]] A BadBoss even by the show's standards, Roman was known to devour his minions in a fit of rage or "bib" them: forcing them to devour themselves. Few villains on ''Supernatural'' have managed to [[TheDreaded inspire the same fear]] or hatred as Roman did, and his [[spoiler:killing of Bobby Singer]] only deepened the hatred the Winchester brothers had for him.
** [[MonsterOfTheWeek Whitman Van Ness]], from season 7's "[[Recap/SupernaturalS07E19OfGraveImportance Of Grave Importance]]", was a former rich man turned SerialKiller in the early 1900s. He [[SlashedThroat slit the necks]] of numerous [[DisposableSexWorker prostitutes]] who worked in his manor house, climaxing with the murder of his own fiancé and [[FrameUp framing]] the caretaker Dexter O'Connor for everything, leading to Dexter being shot by the authorities. Following his death, Whitman became [[OurGhostsAreDifferent a very powerful spirit]], and, to protect himself from the decay all ghosts suffer, began feeding off other spirits, effectively destroying them. Whitman spent decades killing countless people who came into his house, then used his powers to prevent their spirits from passing on; trapping his victims in constant terror of him [[AndIMustScream whilst they all slowly decay into rotting mindless abominations]] so he could stay strong. Whitman also [[{{Sadist}} takes amusement]] from their horrific fate and enjoys lording his power over them. In the present he murders two teenagers who hide in his house, and then murders Sam, Dean and Bobby's old friend [[HunterOfMonsters Annie Hawkins]]. A few nights later he murders two friends of the first pair of teenagers by crushing their hearts, adding all of them to his collection. When Dexter protested that he already had more than enough victims, Whitman drained him on the spot. Whitman's final act was to try and drain Bobby, before Sam and Dean burnt his bones.
** [[DarkActionGirl Abaddon]], from seasons 8 and 9, proved herself to be as evil as any of her demonic predecessors. As one of the [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Knights of Hell]], the first demons created by Lucifer, she was trained by Cain before he became TheAtoner. Abaddon tricked Cain into murdering the human woman he had fallen in love with with the First Blade, earning his undying hatred. After centuries of serving under Hellís banner, in 1958 she kills a priest who was researching a demon cure. She [[DemonicPossession possesses Josie Sands]] to infiltrate the Men of Letters, noting that Josie is in love with her partner Henry Winchester and therefore can hurt them more. Abaddon massacres the Men of Letters and follows Henry through a time portal into 2012, disposing of him after [[ILied going back on a deal]] she made with Sam and Dean. When she discovers that Hell has been brought under the more pragmatic Crowley in her absence, she sets out to become Queen of Hell and promises her followers a new reign of terror. After [[spoiler:Crowley regains his human emotions, Abaddon kidnaps his son Gavin and proceeds to torture him in front of his father. He caves in to her demands and helps her to defeat the Winchesters, but then]] she decides to kill them all anyway.

to:

** Lilith, from seasons Seasons 3 and 4, is the oldest demon in existence, and one of the worst. She massacres a police station, killing everyone that Sam and Dean had just finished saving, uses her position as [[spoiler:the holder of [[{{Jerkass}} Bela]]'s [[DealWithTheDevil contract]]]] to try and force her to kill Sam, and keeps a personal chef on hand to prepare [[EatsBabies human infants]] for her to eat. Lilith also has a thing for [[DemonicPossession possessing]] [[EnfanteTerrible little girls]], destroying their families from the inside out for her own personal amusement. In the season Season 3 finale, she holds a family hostage, killing the grandfather for making her mad, and has Dean dragged off to Hell, laughing the entire time. Reappearing in season Season 4, Lilith reveals that her current plan is to free [[{{Satan}} Lucifer]], bringing about TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt. When she discovers that [[spoiler:freeing Lucifer will ensure her death]], she tries to back out, offering to put off the apocalypse if Sam and Dean will let her kill them. Defeated by Sam in the season Season 4 finale, [[spoiler:Lilith [[SuicideByCop goads him into finishing her]], knowing that her death will result in the [[KillAllHumans deaths of all humanity]]]].
** [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Alastair]], from season Season 4, is described by Ruby as Hell's "[[TortureTechnician Grand Inquisitor...Picasso with a razor]]." [[TheDreaded Feared by demons well beyond Angels]], he is responsible for supervising the [[ColdBloodedTorture torture]] of all of Hell's newly-arrived souls, corrupting them into demons. Having already tortured John Winchester for a hundred years, when Dean arrives in Hell, Alastair tortures him every day, [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice impaling him with hooks and chains]], [[FlayedAlive flaying]] and dismembering his entire body-- body -- which no matter the damage would then heal the next day so he could start again- again -- for thirty years. Each day he offers to stop if Dean will [[DealWithTheDevil accept his offer]] and torment other souls on Alastair's behalf. Unbeknownst to Dean when he finally breaks, by doing so he broke one of the seals imprisoning Lucifer, a fact that Alastair [[MindRape psychologically tortures]] Dean with during their subsequent encounters. [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E09IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer During]] the [[SupernaturalS04E10HeavenAndHell hunt]] for Anna Milton, Alastair [[SlashedThroat slits her parents' throats]]. When Ruby approaches him offering to give him Anna in exchange for sparing her, Sam and Dean, Alastair instead captures Ruby and brutally vivisects her with her own knife, before [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown beating Castiel senseless]], which Cas only survives because Alastair isn't powerful enough to kill an angel. He also scrambles Dean's organs when he tries to save Cas. To break another seal he murders a Reaper and attempts to murder Tessa [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E15DeathTakesAHoliday later in the series]], pausing only to demonstrate to the brothers just how painful rock salt is to a spirit. [[Recap/SupernaturalS04E16OnTheHeadOfAPin Doing his best]] to kill Sam and Dean, he brutally beats then attempts to banish Castiel, before finally being killed by Sam. Living only to cause others suffering and [[{{Sadist}} enjoying every single moment of it]], Alastair, despite his relatively low body count, is one of the worst demons in the series.
** The leader of the [[EldritchAbomination Leviathans]] from season Season 7, commonly known by the assumed name Dick Roman, not content with simply lurking in the shadows to feed on humanity, planted his minions in key positions, murdering and devouring every human in the way. Taking control of a major company, Roman began to place chemicals in corn syrup so humanity would be rendered helpless as cattle for the Leviathans to feed on. The Winchesters, who he knew could prove an issue, he framed for a nation-wide killing spree. [[spoiler:Other monster species were seen as "competition," with Roman planning to exterminate them as well after manipulating them into helping him.]] A BadBoss even by the show's standards, Roman was known to devour his minions in a fit of rage or "bib" them: forcing them to devour themselves. Few villains on ''Supernatural'' have managed to [[TheDreaded inspire the same fear]] or hatred as Roman did, and his [[spoiler:killing of Bobby Singer]] only deepened the hatred the Winchester brothers had for him.
** [[MonsterOfTheWeek Whitman Van Ness]], from season Season 7's "[[Recap/SupernaturalS07E19OfGraveImportance Of Grave Importance]]", was a former rich man turned SerialKiller in the early 1900s. He [[SlashedThroat slit the necks]] of numerous [[DisposableSexWorker prostitutes]] who worked in his manor house, climaxing with the murder of his own fiancé and [[FrameUp framing]] the caretaker Dexter O'Connor for everything, leading to Dexter being shot by the authorities. Following his death, Whitman became [[OurGhostsAreDifferent a very powerful spirit]], and, to protect himself from the decay all ghosts suffer, began feeding off other spirits, effectively destroying them. Whitman spent decades killing countless people who came into his house, then used his powers to prevent their spirits from passing on; trapping his victims in constant terror of him [[AndIMustScream whilst they all slowly decay into rotting mindless abominations]] so he could stay strong. Whitman also [[{{Sadist}} takes amusement]] from their horrific fate and enjoys lording his power over them. In the present he murders two teenagers who hide in his house, and then murders Sam, Dean and Bobby's old friend [[HunterOfMonsters Annie Hawkins]]. A few nights later he murders two friends of the first pair of teenagers by crushing their hearts, adding all of them to his collection. When Dexter protested that he already had more than enough victims, Whitman drained him on the spot. Whitman's final act was to try and drain Bobby, before Sam and Dean burnt his bones.
** [[DarkActionGirl Abaddon]], from seasons Seasons 8 and 9, proved herself to be as evil as any of her demonic predecessors. As one of the [[DemonLordsAndArchdevils Knights of Hell]], the first demons created by Lucifer, she was trained by Cain before he became TheAtoner. Abaddon tricked Cain into murdering the human woman he had fallen in love with with the First Blade, earning his undying hatred. After centuries of serving under Hellís banner, in 1958 she kills a priest who was researching a demon cure. She [[DemonicPossession possesses Josie Sands]] to infiltrate the Men of Letters, noting that Josie is in love with her partner Henry Winchester and therefore can hurt them more. Abaddon massacres the Men of Letters and follows Henry through a time portal into 2012, disposing of him after [[ILied going back on a deal]] she made with Sam and Dean. When she discovers that Hell has been brought under the more pragmatic Crowley in her absence, she sets out to become Queen of Hell and promises her followers a new reign of terror. After [[spoiler:Crowley regains his human emotions, Abaddon kidnaps his son Gavin and proceeds to torture him in front of his father. He caves in to her demands and helps her to defeat the Winchesters, but then]] she decides to kill them all anyway.



* CriticalResearchFailure: In "I Believe the Children Are Our Future," when Sam asks if Antichrist Jesse is the devil's son, Castiel replies dismissively, "No, of course not. Your Bible gets more wrong than it does right. The Antichrist is not Lucifer's child." The phrase "your Bible gets more wrong than it does right" isn't a bad one for Castiel to utter in other circumstances--Supernatural has no problem contradicting orthodox Christianity left and right--but it makes absolutely no sense in this context because ''the Bible never says or even implies that the Antichrist is Lucifer's child.'' In the Bible, he's just a particularly effective false prophet (after all, Protestant Reformation theologians didn't literally think that Satan fathered any of the popes). The idea of the Antichrist as the devil's son actually didn't come about until [[WordofDante the twentieth century]], and most Christian denominations ''reject'' it because only God has the power to incarnate.

to:

* CriticalResearchFailure: In "I Believe the Children Are Our Future," when Sam asks if Antichrist Jesse is the devil's son, Castiel replies dismissively, "No, of course not. Your Bible gets more wrong than it does right. The Antichrist is not Lucifer's child." The phrase "your Bible gets more wrong than it does right" isn't a bad one for Castiel to utter in other circumstances--Supernatural circumstances -- Supernatural has no problem contradicting orthodox Christianity left and right--but right -- but it makes absolutely no sense in this context because ''the Bible never says or even implies that the Antichrist is Lucifer's child.'' In the Bible, he's just a particularly effective false prophet (after all, Protestant Reformation theologians didn't literally think that Satan fathered any of the popes). The idea of the Antichrist as the devil's son actually didn't come about until [[WordofDante the twentieth century]], and most Christian denominations ''reject'' it because only God has the power to incarnate.



** The fanbase tends to focus on the Trickster's humorous qualities and HeelFaceTurn, ignoring the enormous body count that his "jokes" leave behind him. This may be because he killed a grand total of two people on-screen--but remember that he was on Earth as the Trickster and viciously killing/traumatizing [[AssholeVictim people he thought deserved to be taught a lesson]] for ''millennia''. The Trickster turned out to be decent enough to try to stop [[{{Satan}} his brother]], but at best he was a [[DisproportionateRetribution seriously sadistic]] KnightTemplar.

to:

** The fanbase tends to focus on the Trickster's humorous qualities and HeelFaceTurn, ignoring the enormous body count that his "jokes" leave behind him. This may be because he killed a grand total of two people on-screen--but on-screen -- but remember that he was on Earth as the Trickster and viciously killing/traumatizing [[AssholeVictim people he thought deserved to be taught a lesson]] for ''millennia''. The Trickster turned out to be decent enough to try to stop [[{{Satan}} his brother]], but at best he was a [[DisproportionateRetribution seriously sadistic]] KnightTemplar.



** In the sixth ep of season one, Dean says Sam's alright for lying and the truth sucks. That one came back to haunt them.

to:

** In the sixth ep episode of season one, Season 1, Dean says Sam's alright for lying and the truth sucks. That one came back to haunt them.



** This innocuous exchange in season 8 in light of season 10 where [[spoiler:Crowley's mother casts a mortal curse on Castiel]].

to:

** This innocuous exchange in season Season 8 in light of season Season 10 where [[spoiler:Crowley's mother casts a mortal curse on Castiel]].



** Sam's words to Dean in the Season Six episode, "Let it Bleed" about [[spoiler:erasing Lisa and Ben's memories of Dean:]] ''Dean, I've seen you pull some shady crap before, but this has got to be the worst..." ''Come Season Nine, Dean has [[spoiler:tricked Sam into allowing the angel Ezekiel to possess him, and keeping knowledge of the fact from Sam.]]
** Dean's nightmare in "Dream a Little Dream of Me" has him confronting a version of himself who has died after his deal has expired, has gone to Hell, and become a demon, with the demon Dean screaming "You're going to die! ''This'' is what you're going to become!" [[spoiler:Although he doesn't become a demon following his death at the end of season three, he does become one at the end of season nine.]]
** Lucifer's whole season 5 attempt to bring about the apocalypse came from a deep disgust at humanity, and resentment that God threw him down into Hell for it. [[spoiler:In "Don't Call Me Shurley", it turns out that Chuck has actually come around to agreeing with his favorite son about the [[HumansAreBastards toxicity of human nature]] since then, which explains why he was willing to let Lucifer burn it all down and why he's willing to let Amara wipe everything out now. It also explains why Chuck refuses to see Lucifer as the bad guy.]]

to:

** Sam's words to Dean in the Season Six 6 episode, "Let it Bleed" about [[spoiler:erasing Lisa and Ben's memories of Dean:]] ''Dean, I've seen you pull some shady crap before, but this has got to be the worst..." ''Come Season Nine, 9, Dean has [[spoiler:tricked Sam into allowing the angel Ezekiel to possess him, and keeping knowledge of the fact from Sam.]]
** Dean's nightmare in "Dream a Little Dream of Me" has him confronting a version of himself who has died after his deal has expired, has gone to Hell, and become a demon, with the demon Dean screaming "You're going to die! ''This'' is what you're going to become!" [[spoiler:Although he doesn't become a demon following his death at the end of season three, Season 3, he does become one at the end of season nine.Season 9.]]
** Lucifer's whole season Season 5 attempt to bring about the apocalypse came from a deep disgust at humanity, and resentment that God threw him down into Hell for it. [[spoiler:In "Don't Call Me Shurley", it turns out that Chuck has actually come around to agreeing with his favorite son about the [[HumansAreBastards toxicity of human nature]] since then, which explains why he was willing to let Lucifer burn it all down and why he's willing to let Amara wipe everything out now. It also explains why Chuck refuses to see Lucifer as the bad guy.]]



** "The French Mistake" gets a lot of mileage about how the show is on season ''six'', and how long Jared and Jensen have been playing their characters. This is either funnier or harsher in hindsight given the show's now run for ''twice'' that long.

to:

** "The French Mistake" gets a lot of mileage about how the show is on season ''six'', Season ''6'', and how long Jared and Jensen have been playing their characters. This is either funnier or harsher in hindsight given the show's now run for ''twice'' that long.



** The last sixty seconds or so of the Season 8 Finale probably qualify.

to:

** The last sixty seconds or so of the Season 8 Finale finale probably qualify.



** Meg becomes this in season 7 and 8.

to:

** Meg becomes this in season Seasons 7 and 8.



* LGBTFanbase: There's a reason this show gets coverage on [[http://afterelton.com AfterElton.com]]. As of season 9, the show also has at least one openly gay writer, Robert Berens.

to:

* LGBTFanbase: There's a reason this show gets coverage on [[http://afterelton.com AfterElton.com]]. As of season Season 9, the show also has at least one openly gay writer, Robert Berens.



** Crowley. Not only can he play XanatosSpeedChess like a master, he's done the ''one'' thing both the angels and demons have been trying to do since Season 1--get the Winchesters to do what he wants them to! Later in the season, we find out that [[spoiler:he's apparently also got Castiel working for him, and they faked his death]]. In the seventh season finale, Crowley even manages to [[spoiler:get his rival killed, capture an enemy Lucifer loyalist, kidnap a prophet of the Lord, ''and'' banish Dean and Castiel to Purgatory]]. Magnificent doesn't begin to cover Crowley's awesomeness.

to:

** Crowley. Not only can he play XanatosSpeedChess like a master, he's done the ''one'' thing both the angels and demons have been trying to do since Season 1--get 1 -- get the Winchesters to do what he wants them to! Later in the season, we find out that [[spoiler:he's apparently also got Castiel working for him, and they faked his death]]. In the seventh season finale, Crowley even manages to [[spoiler:get his rival killed, capture an enemy Lucifer loyalist, kidnap a prophet of the Lord, ''and'' banish Dean and Castiel to Purgatory]]. Magnificent doesn't begin to cover Crowley's awesomeness.



* OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight: Many fans blamed the seasons 6 & 7 showrunner Sera Gamble for the show's less-than-stellar state after Eric Kripke, the creator and original showrunner, stepped down (though Kripke still had some input on the show). After season 7, Gamble also stepped down and was replaced by Jeremy Carver. Whether or not he's doing better than her is a bit of an issue amongst the fandom, but both are generally seen as being inferior to Kripke.

to:

* OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight: Many fans blamed the seasons Seasons 6 & and 7 showrunner Sera Gamble for the show's less-than-stellar state after Eric Kripke, the creator and original showrunner, stepped down (though Kripke still had some input on the show). After season Season 7, Gamble also stepped down and was replaced by Jeremy Carver. Whether or not he's doing better than her is a bit of an issue amongst the fandom, but both are generally seen as being inferior to Kripke.



* PanderingToTheBase: When it comes to the female guest stars, the show is certainly guilty of this. Jo was a love interest for Dean; she was hated by the fans and so got booted. Bela was introduced -- to say that she was hated would be an understatement -- [[spoiler:and she got ripped to pieces by Hellhounds (off-screen).]] It was then revealed that Katie Cassidy as Ruby had to leave too (however, that was because they didn't have the budget to pay for her return). Kripke has also ended up apologizing for the oft-reviled "Red Sky At Morning" and a few other unpopular episodes. Ruby was a subversion before [[spoiler:she got KilledOffForReal]]. It's revealed in season four that she simply got a new meatsuit [[spoiler:after being forced out of the old one by Lilith]].

to:

* PanderingToTheBase: When it comes to the female guest stars, the show is certainly guilty of this. Jo was a love interest for Dean; she was hated by the fans and so got booted. Bela was introduced -- to say that she was hated would be an understatement -- [[spoiler:and she got ripped to pieces by Hellhounds (off-screen).]] It was then revealed that Katie Cassidy as Ruby had to leave too (however, that was because they didn't have the budget to pay for her return). Kripke has also ended up apologizing for the oft-reviled "Red Sky At Morning" and a few other unpopular episodes. Ruby was a subversion before [[spoiler:she got KilledOffForReal]]. It's revealed in season four 4 that she simply got a new meatsuit [[spoiler:after being forced out of the old one by Lilith]].



** Due to how long the show's been on now, newer fans watching the earlier seasons will probably recognize season three's additions of Ruby and Bela respectively as [[Series/{{Arrow}} Laurel Lance]] and [[Series/TheWalkingDead Maggie Greene]].
** Many people might recognize Dr. Garrison from the season 3 episode "Bedtime Stories" as [[Series/BreakingBad Ted Beneke]].
** Likewise, others may recognize Duane Tanner from season 2's "Croatoan" as either [[Series/{{Homeland}} Mike Faber]] or [[Series/TheBlacklist Donald Ressler]].
* RomanticPlotTumor: Sam/Amelia in Season Eight. Ignoring Garth isn't that much of a deal breaker, as Supernatural is the story of the Winchesters. No, what pushes this into Romantic Plot Tumor territory is that Sam and Amelia's romance serves no purpose in the story and doesn't deepen our understanding of the characters.

to:

** Due to how long the show's been on now, newer fans watching the earlier seasons will probably recognize season three's Season 3's additions of Ruby and Bela respectively as [[Series/{{Arrow}} Laurel Lance]] and [[Series/TheWalkingDead Maggie Greene]].
** Many people might recognize Dr. Garrison from the season Season 3 episode "Bedtime Stories" as [[Series/BreakingBad Ted Beneke]].
** Likewise, others may recognize Duane Tanner from season Season 2's "Croatoan" as either [[Series/{{Homeland}} Mike Faber]] or [[Series/TheBlacklist Donald Ressler]].
* RomanticPlotTumor: Sam/Amelia in Season Eight.8. Ignoring Garth isn't that much of a deal breaker, as Supernatural is the story of the Winchesters. No, what pushes this into Romantic Plot Tumor territory is that Sam and Amelia's romance serves no purpose in the story and doesn't deepen our understanding of the characters.



** Fans liked Metatron well enough... until it was revealed that [[spoiler:he was manipulating [[EnsembleDarkhorse Castiel]] for his own ends and he cast all the angels out of Heaven after killing Naomi for the sake of (misplaced) [[DisproportionateRetribution vengeance]].]] In the space of ''one episode'', he went from loved to hated. Don't be surprised if fans now say he's worse that [[{{Satan}} Lucifer]]. This got even worse in season 9, where the writers can't seem to decide whether they want him to be [[spoiler:a smart and dangerous MagnificentBastard or an IneffectualSympatheticVillain who just wants people to like him,]] resulting in him constantly switching between the two rather contradictory personalities. Sometimes, within the span of a single episode. Also not helping is his tendency for his schemes to rely more on giving other characters the IdiotBall than actually doing something clever himself.

to:

** Fans liked Metatron well enough... until it was revealed that [[spoiler:he was manipulating [[EnsembleDarkhorse Castiel]] for his own ends and he cast all the angels out of Heaven after killing Naomi for the sake of (misplaced) [[DisproportionateRetribution vengeance]].]] In the space of ''one episode'', he went from loved to hated. Don't be surprised if fans now say he's worse that [[{{Satan}} Lucifer]]. This got even worse in season Season 9, where the writers can't seem to decide whether they want him to be [[spoiler:a smart and dangerous MagnificentBastard or an IneffectualSympatheticVillain who just wants people to like him,]] resulting in him constantly switching between the two rather contradictory personalities. Sometimes, within the span of a single episode. Also not helping is his tendency for his schemes to rely more on giving other characters the IdiotBall than actually doing something clever himself.



** Minor character Garth, a hunter we only hear on the phone with Bobby asking him for advice on a vampire case in season 6. Bobby tells him to call the FBI to handle it, but Garth calls Bobby's fake FBI number instead. We finally meet Garth in a Season 7 episode and it seems he really is that stupid in person, although even Garth thought the victim of the week was an idiot for selling her soul. As of Season 8, Garth seems to have [[TookALevelInBadass ground a few dozen levels]], stepping into Bobby's shoes and edging away from this and into BunnyEarsLawyer territory.
** Several of the children from 'Everybody Loves A Clown'- they appear old enough that they SHOULD know better than to let a complete stranger into their home, even if it looks like a friendly clown.

to:

** Minor character Garth, a hunter we only hear on the phone with Bobby asking him for advice on a vampire case in season Season 6. Bobby tells him to call the FBI to handle it, but Garth calls Bobby's fake FBI number instead. We finally meet Garth in a Season 7 episode and it seems he really is that stupid in person, although even Garth thought the victim of the week was an idiot for selling her soul. As of Season 8, Garth seems to have [[TookALevelInBadass ground a few dozen levels]], stepping into Bobby's shoes and edging away from this and into BunnyEarsLawyer territory.
** Several of the children from 'Everybody Loves A Clown'- Clown' -- they appear old enough that they SHOULD know better than to let a complete stranger into their home, even if it looks like a friendly clown.
10th Nov '17 8:05:40 PM TimeLordVictorious
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The show's biggest example of this probably comes at the very end of Season 12: [[spoilers: [[KilledOffForReal Crowley]]]].

to:

** The show's biggest example of this probably comes at the very end of Season 12: [[spoilers: [[spoiler: [[KilledOffForReal Crowley]]]].
10th Nov '17 8:04:31 PM TimeLordVictorious
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** The show's biggest example of this probably comes at the very end of Season 12: [[spoilers: [[KilledOffForReal Crowley]]]].
6th Nov '17 10:34:56 AM Silverblade2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** On a meta level, the writing team of Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner is easily the least popular of the show's staff, responsible for such hated episodes as "Route 666," "Man's Best Friend with Benefits," and "Dark Dynasty." Complicating matters is that Ross-Leming is married to Robert Singer, leading to numerous accusations that he refuses to acknowledge how bad a writer his wife is and keeps giving her work, which has recently even included quite important events like the beginning of the Angel war and the curing of Demon Dean that other writers would likely have done a far better job on.
22nd Oct '17 7:16:51 PM QueenofSwords
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Ruby was hated before she even debuted, thanks to [[TrollingCreator inflammatory press releases claiming that she was a new hunter being introduced who was better than Sam and Dean]]. Fan-hate only grew when she started to come between the brothers and seemed to be encouraging Sam's dark side, which made the brothers have their first real rift in their relationship (and made fans take sides with their preferred brother, [[BrokenBase breaking the fanbase]] for the first--but not last--time). It doesn't help that the two actresses who play her most of the time (Katie Cassidy and Genevieve Cortese) aren't well-liked due to complaints against their acting.

to:

** Ruby was hated before she even debuted, thanks to [[TrollingCreator inflammatory press releases claiming that she was a new hunter being introduced who was better than Sam and Dean]]. Fan-hate only grew when she started to come between the brothers and seemed to be encouraging Sam's dark side, which made the brothers have their first real rift in their relationship (and made fans take sides with their preferred brother, [[BrokenBase breaking the fanbase]] for the first--but not last--time). It doesn't help that the two actresses who play her most of the time (Katie Cassidy and Genevieve Cortese) aren't well-liked due to complaints against their acting. [[DullSurprise acting.]]
22nd Oct '17 7:15:25 PM QueenofSwords
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Ruby was hated before she even debuted, thanks to [[TrollingCreator inflammatory press releases claiming that she was a new hunter being introduced who was better than Sam and Dean]]. Fan-hate only grew when she started to come between the brothers and seemed to be encouraging Sam's dark side, which made the brothers have their first real rift in their relationship (and made fans take sides with their preferred brother, [[BrokenBase breaking the fanbase]] for the first--but not last--time). It doesn't help that the two actresses who play her most of the time (Katie Cassidy and Genevieve Cortese) aren't well-liked.

to:

** Ruby was hated before she even debuted, thanks to [[TrollingCreator inflammatory press releases claiming that she was a new hunter being introduced who was better than Sam and Dean]]. Fan-hate only grew when she started to come between the brothers and seemed to be encouraging Sam's dark side, which made the brothers have their first real rift in their relationship (and made fans take sides with their preferred brother, [[BrokenBase breaking the fanbase]] for the first--but not last--time). It doesn't help that the two actresses who play her most of the time (Katie Cassidy and Genevieve Cortese) aren't well-liked.well-liked due to complaints against their acting.
18th Oct '17 7:52:12 AM xcountryguy
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The leader of the [[EldritchAbomination Leviathans]] from season 7, commonly known by the assumed name Dick Roman, not content with simply lurking in the shadows to feed on humanity, planted his minions in key positions, murdering and devouring every human in the way. Taking control of a major company, Roman began to place chemicals in corn syrup so humanity would be rendered helpless as cattle for the Leviathans to feed on. The Winchesters, who he knew could prove an issue, he framed for a nation-wide killing spree. [[spoiler:Other monster species were seen as "competition," with Roman planning to exterminate them as well after manipulating them into helping him.]] A BadBoss even by the show's standards, Roman was known to devour his minions in a fit of rage or "bib" them: forcing them to devour themselves. Few villains on ''Supernatural'' have managed to [[TheDreaded inspire the same fear]] or hatred as Roman did, and his [[spoiler: killing of Bobby Singer]] only deepened the hatred the Winchester brothers had for him.

to:

** The leader of the [[EldritchAbomination Leviathans]] from season 7, commonly known by the assumed name Dick Roman, not content with simply lurking in the shadows to feed on humanity, planted his minions in key positions, murdering and devouring every human in the way. Taking control of a major company, Roman began to place chemicals in corn syrup so humanity would be rendered helpless as cattle for the Leviathans to feed on. The Winchesters, who he knew could prove an issue, he framed for a nation-wide killing spree. [[spoiler:Other monster species were seen as "competition," with Roman planning to exterminate them as well after manipulating them into helping him.]] A BadBoss even by the show's standards, Roman was known to devour his minions in a fit of rage or "bib" them: forcing them to devour themselves. Few villains on ''Supernatural'' have managed to [[TheDreaded inspire the same fear]] or hatred as Roman did, and his [[spoiler: killing [[spoiler:killing of Bobby Singer]] only deepened the hatred the Winchester brothers had for him.



** This innocuous exchange in season 8 in light of season 10 where [[spoiler: Crowley's mother casts a mortal curse on Castiel]].

to:

** This innocuous exchange in season 8 in light of season 10 where [[spoiler: Crowley's [[spoiler:Crowley's mother casts a mortal curse on Castiel]].



** Sam's words to Dean in the Season Six episode, "Let it Bleed" about [[spoiler: erasing Lisa and Ben's memories of Dean:]] ''Dean, I've seen you pull some shady crap before, but this has got to be the worst..." ''Come Season Nine, Dean has [[spoiler: tricked Sam into allowing the angel Ezekiel to possess him, and keeping knowledge of the fact from Sam.]]
** Dean's nightmare in "Dream a Little Dream of Me" has him confronting a version of himself who has died after his deal has expired, has gone to Hell, and become a demon, with the demon Dean screaming "You're going to die! ''This'' is what you're going to become!" [[spoiler: Although he doesn't become a demon following his death at the end of season three, he does become one at the end of season nine.]]

to:

** Sam's words to Dean in the Season Six episode, "Let it Bleed" about [[spoiler: erasing [[spoiler:erasing Lisa and Ben's memories of Dean:]] ''Dean, I've seen you pull some shady crap before, but this has got to be the worst..." ''Come Season Nine, Dean has [[spoiler: tricked [[spoiler:tricked Sam into allowing the angel Ezekiel to possess him, and keeping knowledge of the fact from Sam.]]
** Dean's nightmare in "Dream a Little Dream of Me" has him confronting a version of himself who has died after his deal has expired, has gone to Hell, and become a demon, with the demon Dean screaming "You're going to die! ''This'' is what you're going to become!" [[spoiler: Although [[spoiler:Although he doesn't become a demon following his death at the end of season three, he does become one at the end of season nine.]]



** Castiel, ''especially'' in Season 5 when he's falling. But even after he's [[spoiler: re-angelfied and accepted into Heaven, he finds that he has to become the figurehead for an incredibly personal civil war between his brothers]], and he's more or less had to go it alone.

to:

** Castiel, ''especially'' in Season 5 when he's falling. But even after he's [[spoiler: re-angelfied [[spoiler:re-angelfied and accepted into Heaven, he finds that he has to become the figurehead for an incredibly personal civil war between his brothers]], and he's more or less had to go it alone.



** Gabriel. It's rather sad when you consider that, given how easily Castiel recognized him [[spoiler: while the latter was being assaulted and blinked away in order to keep him from alerting the Winchesters]], that he has probably never had any interaction with [[spoiler:his family since he left them to avoid the fighting]]. He finally shows some loyalty (to humans) and [[spoiler:is killed by Lucifer]]. (To those who haven't forgotten his truly {{Jerkass}} tendencies in all the other episodes he's appeared in, his [[spoiler:KarmicDeath]] is indeed karmic.)

to:

** Gabriel. It's rather sad when you consider that, given how easily Castiel recognized him [[spoiler: while [[spoiler:while the latter was being assaulted and blinked away in order to keep him from alerting the Winchesters]], that he has probably never had any interaction with [[spoiler:his family since he left them to avoid the fighting]]. He finally shows some loyalty (to humans) and [[spoiler:is killed by Lucifer]]. (To those who haven't forgotten his truly {{Jerkass}} tendencies in all the other episodes he's appeared in, his [[spoiler:KarmicDeath]] is indeed karmic.)



** Crowley. It turned out that [[spoiler: his mother, Rowena, sired him at a solstice winter orgy, so he didn't know his father, she later abandoned at the age of 8, tried to sell him for three pigs...]]

to:

** Crowley. It turned out that [[spoiler: his [[spoiler:his mother, Rowena, sired him at a solstice winter orgy, so he didn't know his father, she later abandoned at the age of 8, tried to sell him for three pigs...]]



** If [[spoiler:Jake Talley]] didn't cross it when he [[spoiler: fatally stabbed Sam]] in part 1 of "All Hell Breaks Loose," then he definitely does it part 2 when he takes control of Ellen and attempts to have her shoot herself. And unlike the first act where he was still reluctant to follow the yellow eyed demon's orders, here he becomes an outright CardCarryingVillain, mocking the hunters as he does it. [[spoiler: You can't really blame the revived Sam for shooting him by that point.]]

to:

** If [[spoiler:Jake Talley]] didn't cross it when he [[spoiler: fatally [[spoiler:fatally stabbed Sam]] in part 1 of "All Hell Breaks Loose," then he definitely does it part 2 when he takes control of Ellen and attempts to have her shoot herself. And unlike the first act where he was still reluctant to follow the yellow eyed demon's orders, here he becomes an outright CardCarryingVillain, mocking the hunters as he does it. [[spoiler: You [[spoiler:You can't really blame the revived Sam for shooting him by that point.]]



** [[spoiler: Crowley crosses this in Season 11, ''Form and Void'', when he brings people, including children, for Amara/Darkness, who eats souls.]]
** [[KnightTemplar Arthur Ketch]] in Season 12 crosses it when [[spoiler: he coldly guns down Magda Peterson, a psychic girl that the Winchesters recently saved from a life of literal torture inflicted by her ''own family'']].

to:

** [[spoiler: Crowley [[spoiler:Crowley crosses this in Season 11, ''Form and Void'', when he brings people, including children, for Amara/Darkness, who eats souls.]]
** [[KnightTemplar Arthur Ketch]] in Season 12 crosses it when [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he coldly guns down Magda Peterson, a psychic girl that the Winchesters recently saved from a life of literal torture inflicted by her ''own family'']].



* OutOfCharacterMoment: Lucifer got one in "We Happy Few" [[spoiler: when he locked himself in Sam's room and said "If Dad has something to say to me I'll hear it from him! Until then I'll be in my room!" like a rebelling teenager. The show had often made use of father/son metaphor for his relationship with God and his rebellion but had always portrayed it as being on a much more massive scale, so he could at once be a rebelling son to God and still a master manipulator and evil monster to humanity. This was the first time it had portrayed him just as the son without any hint of the monster.]]
* PanderingToTheBase: When it comes to the female guest stars, the show is certainly guilty of this. Jo was a love interest for Dean; she was hated by the fans and so got booted. Bela was introduced -- to say that she was hated would be an understatement -- [[spoiler:and she got ripped to pieces by Hellhounds (off-screen).]] It was then revealed that Katie Cassidy as Ruby had to leave too (however, that was because they didn't have the budget to pay for her return). Kripke has also ended up apologizing for the oft-reviled "Red Sky At Morning" and a few other unpopular episodes. Ruby was a subversion before [[spoiler:she got KilledOffForReal]]. It's revealed in season four that she simply got a new meatsuit [[spoiler: after being forced out of the old one by Lilith]].

to:

* OutOfCharacterMoment: Lucifer got one in "We Happy Few" [[spoiler: when [[spoiler:when he locked himself in Sam's room and said "If Dad has something to say to me I'll hear it from him! Until then I'll be in my room!" like a rebelling teenager. The show had often made use of father/son metaphor for his relationship with God and his rebellion but had always portrayed it as being on a much more massive scale, so he could at once be a rebelling son to God and still a master manipulator and evil monster to humanity. This was the first time it had portrayed him just as the son without any hint of the monster.]]
* PanderingToTheBase: When it comes to the female guest stars, the show is certainly guilty of this. Jo was a love interest for Dean; she was hated by the fans and so got booted. Bela was introduced -- to say that she was hated would be an understatement -- [[spoiler:and she got ripped to pieces by Hellhounds (off-screen).]] It was then revealed that Katie Cassidy as Ruby had to leave too (however, that was because they didn't have the budget to pay for her return). Kripke has also ended up apologizing for the oft-reviled "Red Sky At Morning" and a few other unpopular episodes. Ruby was a subversion before [[spoiler:she got KilledOffForReal]]. It's revealed in season four that she simply got a new meatsuit [[spoiler: after [[spoiler:after being forced out of the old one by Lilith]].



** Jo. It arguably began in "Born Under a Bad Sign", when she showed up [[BrokenBird sadder, wiser, and older than before]] and went through an ordeal that had even some haters sympathizing with her and saying they wouldn't mind her reappearing if the writers continued to portray her as a little sister-type figure rather than as a LoveInterest. The process was completed when she TookALevelInBadass, amusedly turned down [[MustNotDieAVirgin a night with her old one-sided crush Dean]], and made a [[spoiler: beautifully written, horribly sad HeroicSacrifice]] in Season 5. [[spoiler:Also an AlasPoorScrappy]].

to:

** Jo. It arguably began in "Born Under a Bad Sign", when she showed up [[BrokenBird sadder, wiser, and older than before]] and went through an ordeal that had even some haters sympathizing with her and saying they wouldn't mind her reappearing if the writers continued to portray her as a little sister-type figure rather than as a LoveInterest. The process was completed when she TookALevelInBadass, amusedly turned down [[MustNotDieAVirgin a night with her old one-sided crush Dean]], and made a [[spoiler: beautifully [[spoiler:beautifully written, horribly sad HeroicSacrifice]] in Season 5. [[spoiler:Also an AlasPoorScrappy]].
13th Oct '17 9:00:23 AM Larkmarn
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: The main trio have died so many times and always come back that any drama about them being in mortal danger is severely undercut. Even if they die, they'll be back.
20th Sep '17 12:13:16 PM GoldenKeyblade
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In "Let It Bleed", Dean has Castiel remove all memories of him from Lisa and Ben so they'll be safe from further involvement with him. Even putting aside the UnfortunateImplications of mind-wiping someone without their consent (which Sam even calls him out on), this does nothing to solve the problem, and may even make it worse. Crowley didn't kidnap them because of anything they knew, but because Dean cared about them, and their not remembering him doesn't change that. So Crowley or any other villain is still free to use them as bargaining chips, with the added complication that they'll have no idea what's going on. And even if that never happens, what about all the people she and Dean knew during their year-long relationship? Odds are it'll come up sometime.

to:

** In "Let It Bleed", Dean has Castiel remove all memories of him from Lisa and Ben so they'll be safe from further involvement with him. Even putting aside the UnfortunateImplications of mind-wiping someone without their consent (which Sam even admittedly calls him out on), this does nothing to solve the problem, and may even make it worse. Crowley didn't kidnap them because of anything they knew, but because Dean cared about them, and their not remembering him doesn't change that. So Crowley or any other villain is still free to use them as bargaining chips, with the added complication that they'll have no idea what's going on. And even if that never happens, what about all the people she and Dean knew during their year-long relationship? Odds are it'll come up sometime.
5th Aug '17 8:17:43 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Crowley gets bonus points for being the only BigBad on the show to [[GenreSavvy take the Winchesters seriously as threats.]]

to:

*** Crowley gets bonus points for being the only BigBad on the show to [[GenreSavvy take the Winchesters seriously as threats.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 825. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Supernatural