Discussion Recap / MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS2E10SecretOfMyExcess

It's not about not liking a ship, it's the assumption on some pages that Rarity should immediately put out just because she knows Spike likes her.

When it comes to Spike, emotion overrules her normally logical methods. In this case, she was unwilling to learn about how dragons grow, as it would mean accepting the fact that one day he will grow too big and have to leave her.

I know there's a trope for this (because we have tropes for everything!), but I can't think of it/find it. Basically, Twilight is a mother (figure) who doesn't want to accept that her child will "leave the nest".

I have a YKTTW about that one too. That every parent sees their child as a baby even when they're growing/grown up and ready to do their own thing.

Oh, and Twilight may never have thought to research dragon life cycles because dragons live to be very, very old and age much slower than the average pony. She might figure Spike would outlive her before he even got out of babyhood, let alone childhood or adolescence. Her tendencies to study also tend to relate to magic as it allows her to control her strong but wild talent.

I'm not buying it yet. Admittedly Spike is the only creature that I can imagine Twilight having that deep of an emotional connection with, aside from Celestia and her parents. But we've seen Twilight research other fields when she feels like it, such as the slumber party and running a marathon. And she seems to be naturally curious, given that she hooked up Pinkie to a... something machine to figure out Pinkie Sense. It's a little hard to believe she didn't look up ANYTHING, particularly when she first hatched him. Perhaps she only has cursory knowledge taught to her by Celestia. That and/or she ignored books that Zecora has read, which I could believe given the ending of "Bridle Gossip."

Well, when she hatched Spike, she also got Celestia's attention and praise for having such raw talent. So it's possible that due to being so excited about being Celestia's own protege, and then being so devoted (obsessive, even!) to doing a good job as said protege, Twilight Sparkle at first didn't have time to research about baby dragons. And as he seemed to develop fine on his own — intelligent enough to pretty much serve as her page — she didn't consider it important as compared to getting her own unicorn magic under control and making the Princess proud.

Do we even know whether Spike was with Twilight every second from the moment of his hatching, or if he was given to a dragon nursery or something (presuming he isn't a Parental Abandonment victim of some sort) until he was old enough to speak and take care of himself a little bit?

A simpler explanation is that Twilight has researched dragon life cycles in the past, and she learned that dragons live for centuries — after all, a hundred-year nap is normal for them. However, that research doesn't preclude the possibility that her books had no information about overnight growth spurts driven by excessive greed. So when Twilight wakes up and she sees Spike has suddenly tripled in size, she realizes it's something not covered by her earlier research, and decides to consult others for clues or ideas.

Well naturally Spike hasn't been in Twilight's company forever. He is very important to Celestia as well, since his dragonfire is her direct line of communication with Twilight. We also know Spike was sent to Canterlot on royal duty in "Look Before You Sleep." I'm willing to bet that's a regular occurrence. There was also the little incident with him running away, but that wasn't for very long.

Frankly, I'm interested in where Zecora got information that has eluded Twilight, who is probably the only pony in Equestria to have a dragon assistant (or at the very least, the only one we've seen.) If Twilight DID do any research, I severely doubt she would have done it haphazardly; she's so thorough her checklists are the length of a city block. I like my theory of books being there that Zecora read and Twilight didn't. There are a few other ways this could work, but at the end of the day, nothing changes; I'm still as disappointed in Twilight as I was when I watched the episode.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go into my kitchen and do my best impression of Dan Backslide.

According to a fairly recent Word of Faust, Spike was mostly raised by Celestia because ponies simply don't know much about dragons (and presumably because Twilight was still a kid herself). Because of that, I'm just assuming that Twilight couldn't do any research on dragon life cycles because there was nothing to research.

In Equestria, at least. Zecora (and probably zebras in general) obviously has access to knowledge, possibly in the form of folklore, that ponies don't.

It sounds a little bit like Discretion Shot, but invoked in-universe.

The Aesops are certainly a big part of the series, considering we got an episode centered on chasing one down. I think recording them would be beneficial to an understanding of the show. But what would you do for episodes like The Mysterious Mare Do Well, where the letter is not actually written on screen? A similar problem exists in The Stare Master, where the letter is written mostly before we transition into the scene where Twilight is writing it. The morals are still there for both cases, but I'm curious as to how you would format them. And then there's The Show Stoppers, where no letter is even mentioned beyond Twilight wanting to make a special report to the princess, and the moral is lost on the CMC.

tl;dr Good idea, but keep in mind there are exceptions to the norm and they must be covered.

It's certainly an odd, perhaps ironic thing that a creature of greedy nature has feelings for the Element of Generosity, and those feelings may not be entirely unrequited.

There's a correlation in your list, I've noticed: the last three items have been well established since the end of the two-part pilot, but the first item about dragons and their greed has not been seriously focused on until this episode. It has been implied, naturally, but not until this episode have we seen how greed REALLY affects a dragon. Therefore, I believe the first item was the main establishing fact of this episode, while the other three elements helped shape the plot. I consider that some expert storytelling.

Agreed. It was already likely Rarity knew, considering how blatant he was about it, so the only thing this episode changes is that now he knows she knows. And it's still unlikely that anything will come of it — she's as fond of him as any of the mane six, she probably enjoys the attention, and she may think his Precocious Crush is cute, but those don't add up to reciprocating. She's a grown mare; he's Just a Kid.

Not that she doesn't know how to use her powers for good. After all, the whole point of that scene on the bridge was probably to cheer Spike up — she knew she had the best tools for the job.

Like, would this be some kind of notable inversion of Photographic Memory or something?

Few people have a photographic memory. It's no surprise that Spike would remember the events a little differently, since he's interacting with Rarity, and as you said, he only got the details wrong, nothing notable.

Fair enough. Of course, maybe using notable was kind of a mistake on my part. After all, There Is No Such Thing As Notability.

I also realize that almost nobody has true photographic memory in real life, by the way. Fiction tends to make this trope more common than it should be, so I just thought that maybe this would count as an inversion, and as such would function more like actual memory, where the gist of the situation was remembered, but not many of the details.

I suppose my point was that...

1. I think there's a memory trope here.

2. I think it's related to photographic memory. If that's the case, than it's something other than played straight. If it's not inverted, maybe it's averted?

I had added Self-Serving Memory before, but it got removed, but I'd argue it is important. The shape and how its handled both in the actual event and in the fantasy are too deliberate to not draw attention to it.

I believe its an averted trope. I think photographic memory is used so often because it is simpler to understand and it requires less work for the animators.

So would an entry go something like this?

Photographic Memory: Averted. Spike's memory of giving the fire ruby to Rarity is quite different than the way the actual event played out. The dialog is changed, the kiss is immediate, and the fire ruby is flipped upside down when he puts it in Rarity's hoof.

I'd also like to point out that, at least in this case that Spike's memory is actually shorter than the actual event, so part of the reason for including it (from his POV, in fact!) was to allow enough time for a few other things in the show.

I find this quite peculiar. I agree that the memory sequence would represent some sort of trope(s), but I do not think an averted Photographic Memory would be the correct one; jotting down a character with normal memory seems a little pointless. I think a better description of the sequence would be playing with a Flashback somehow. Perhaps it's a reconstruction of a Flashback, or a downplayed Self-Serving Memory. I can't put my finger on what trope it might be or how it's played...

IrisOut.

I think in the Wonderbolts' case, it was their excessive speed that sliced Spike's ...er, spikes.

Ooh, well spotted. I doubt we'll ever get confirmation on that, though. Wild Mass Guessing?

It's not continually locked out. It's just that on Air Date, there are Loads And Loads Of Tropers all trying to edit the page at the same time.

So it's all a matter of who hits [F5] fastest and most frequently who catches it after the previous editor saves their edit. Happens every Saturday, not just today. Honest.

I wouldn't consider either a Brick Joke, honestly. There's nearly no delay between the kisses and what happens to them. However, there simply MUST be a trope for not washing off a kiss or other significant contact. The framing would be an exaggeration of the trope, I believe. If there isn't a trope for that, there should be.

The "Never wash again" was under Other Stock Phrases. I started a YKTTW about it this morning.

If we can find a trope for that kind of character, we can put it on her character page, but it's not a call back unless somepony in the show actually mentions Zecora as a last resort

Keep in mind that Zecora lives within the Everfree Forest, which is out of the way and can be dangerous. Twilight even got turned to stone while in there. Seeing two licensed professionals in the same town for what Twilight thinks is a medical problem makes sense before making the journey through the Everfree Forest to see Zecora.