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battosaijoe
topic
05:34:38 AM Apr 20th 2011
I haven't played Killing Floor, so I am in no position to remove either example. But can someone explain to me why Killing Floor's Flamethrower appears in BOTH Lame and Flame sections of the article? I understand that YMMV on such things, but can it universally suck and rock... FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS??
Cider
10:34:53 PM Feb 15th 2012
It seems to be a case of having its niche but still being much suckier than a real flame thrower.
TedAsanto
topic
03:34:56 AM Oct 6th 2010
edited by TedAsanto
Would it be nice if we could change the name of this trope? I have the feeling that it doesn't fit the TV Tropes rhythmic, punny theme that much.

I have ideas:

The new name could use other adjectives that end with -ame, like tame.
Evilest_Tim
07:29:52 AM Oct 6th 2010
Those are horrible and this title is fine.
MrDeath
07:59:57 AM Oct 6th 2010
...What "TV Tropes rhythmic, punny theme"? There are some punny titles, and some that rhyme, but it's hardly a theme and just shoehorning one in is worse than leaving a perfectly serviceable name alone. I'm with Tim, both those names suck.
SkarmoryThePG
03:18:28 AM Jan 19th 2011
Cider
04:20:31 PM May 24th 2012
It'd be better to just call them video game flamethrowers, since that's what all of them are but not all of them suck.
lilyxlightning
04:34:03 PM May 24th 2012
I think "Videogame Flamethrowers Blow" would be a good punny name. I would remove the "Lame" and "Flame" distinctions though, since a great deal of the "Lame" examples cite that the flamethrower is a powerful weapon but just has short range. I think "Examples" and "Aversions" would work better to separate them into, focusing on the short range aspect akin to Short Range Shotgun.
Cider
08:08:56 AM Aug 27th 2013
TriggerLoaded
topic
10:27:56 AM Sep 12th 2010
Removed the following:

  • The Pyro has firmly ensconced itself at the bottom of the class tier in Team Fortress 2 as well. Its flamethrower's DPS is relatively pathetic (the Medic's syringe gun is actually more powerful). There are approximately half a dozen different ways to counter its afterburn effect, and the bleeding effect recently introduced on new Sniper and Engineer secondary weapons means that the Pyro's afterburn ability is not only no longer unique but actually inferior. All of the Pyro's supposed specialties (such as ambushing, close combat, and damage over time) are now done better by other classes, and success in these roles as the Pyro usually requires a fair amount of luck or exceptionally unskilled opponents, leaving the Pyro as little more than an irritation to the enemy and a support/utility asset to his teammates. Many players now see focusing on the flamethrower's secondary compression air blast ability (triggered by the right mouse button) as the "proper" way of playing the Pyro, and this belief is encouraged by recent patches which have made the air blast more powerful even as actual flame damage has been nerfed.
    • Your Mileage May Vary. There are often complaints, even after nerfing that pyros are in fact *overpowered*. Flamethrower flames are not lag compensated, so to use them really requires you to lead your target. If you are able to do so, a sustained burn will take out virtually anyone short of heavies and overhealed soldiers/demomen/other pyros in short order before they can react. Mechanically the flamethrower may be weak but there are a lot of other factors that contribute to its deadliness. Flames almost universally cause people to panic when struck with them and they then search for ways to counter the burn, making them an open target. The flamethrower also never needs reloading, and has a generous capacity to boot. Combined with the previous factor, a burning target often wastes ammunition due to panic or obscured vision, and when they reload they're an open target. Lastly, the airblast can be used to hamper enemy movement, making them yet again an open target. A flamethrower in skilled hands can often dominate entire matches. Also, two more things: the flamethrower can fire around corners (extremely useful for attacking entrenched engineers), and is the single best tool in the game to uncover enemy spies (which are often even more annoying and devastating than pyros can be).
    • One last fact that a lot of people forget—while the flamethrower's DPS is a relatively 'meh' 150-ish or so per second, that's still over half the other classes dead in a second of exposure, and everything but overhealed Heavies dead in two. Finally, the flamethrower is still unique in one particularly important attribute—it pierces targets. This is most obvious with an Engineer and his Sentry Gun, where if the Engie is hiding behind his gun repairing it constantly, it takes a coordinated assault to break through, and an Ubercharge focuses on damaging the gun. The Pyro, though, can burn the gun, the Engineer, and usually his dispenser to the ground with the same stream of fire. It is thus far the only weapon that can apply its damage to multiple targets with one damage particle (shotguns and the miniguns fire multiple pellets, but each one can only strike a single target). While definitely not the fire-spewing monster it was during its class update, bear in mind the Pyro, by Valve's own tracked stats, is still the third-highest scoring and second most-killingest class in the game.

Gaah! Somebody condense this. Do Pyros suck? Do they rock? I don't know, but don't debate it in the article.
Stealth
08:08:29 PM Oct 9th 2010
edited by Stealth
Sorry, I was one of the verbose contributors above. I think it can be summed up like so: The Pyro's flamethrower is relatively weak and short ranged for a primary weapon, but it still manages to end up killing a lot of players because of its properties and ability to inflict afterburn damage. The new unlockable flamethrowers are still not that strong, but each provides different advantages to the Pyro. They're still very high on the charts for points and kills though. So...the flamethrowers suck on paper, but the class is not a pushover and the weapon still gets kills.
Scardoll
05:41:34 PM Mar 26th 2013
Kill-charts don't matter in pubs.

I'd just delete the section if it's so contentious.
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