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poi99
topic
03:19:20 PM Sep 22nd 2013
"Barely a few days after The Dark Knight Rises premiered, people were already insisting that Alfred was only hallucinating when he saw Bruce at the end, and that he really did die with the explosion, simply because it's darker."

Darkness is in the eye of the beholder. The negative reaction to that scene might have had more to do with the fact that Bruce making a miraculous escape was less believable, given the context.
Thecommander236
topic
10:26:09 AM Jan 12th 2013
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=9oz68c8hv6o7v6x9ln40awxx

Deleting. Take examples from it if necessary.
CabbitGirlEmi
topic
01:27:44 PM Oct 21st 2011
edited by CabbitGirlEmi
If True Art Is Angsty, then the people who really think that have either hearts of stone or no heart at all. Angst, conflict, and cynicism should only be in small doses, not over-taking the entire show/movie, because the latter effect makes some people actually hate what they see.

MOTHER 3, on the other hand, actually did this trope better because despite the MOTHER series being known for goofy humor and strange occurrences, the 3rd game goes a step beyond by adding it to break the repetition of goofy and weird stuff, which is still in there time after time, such as parts of Chapter 7 with the Mr. Saturns and their magic coffee table that neighs like a horse.

However, not only should the world NOT be raped by angst and cynicism, but it also cannot be like A Troll in Central Park, which is a really stupid movie, and the Tastes Like Diabetes moments should also be in small doses, unless the material is marketed at kids under 5.

I actually find cynicism to be very bad. And it's justified because I was around a really mean teacher in middle school. Fortunately, she wasn't my homeroom teacher, but she's still a terrible person who would yell at me for no reason.

And that is why my opinions in this message matter. I just don't think that feeling bitter and depressed is better than feeling overjoyed. I mean, really; it doesn't make any sense. Do you understand what I'm trying to say with all of this?
Goremand
03:30:19 PM Oct 14th 2012
I think you might be crazy.
CabbitGirlEmi
03:57:39 PM Apr 8th 2013
HOW is what I think crazy?
CardiacLiberty
02:56:08 AM Dec 11th 2013
And who are you to judge your teacher? Do you really know who she is? Have you lived with her your whole life? Do you really know what she went through? Maybe she was wrong to have been mean to you. Maybe she had judged you as well. But that doesn't make you right, either. If anything, you're just as cynical as she is for questioning her morality.
TheUnremarkableHulk
topic
11:07:38 AM Aug 9th 2011
Does Joss Whedon deserve that bit under Live Action TV? The quote doesn't really demonstrate that he feels that True Art Is Angsty. He's basically saying that conflict makes shows fun to watch, and happy people lack conflict. That stands true both in comedies and tragedies.
githyan
03:14:55 PM Sep 20th 2011
they are saying that he has a propensity to create angst when none is needed. take serinity, for example (spoiler alert); when Book dies, it is a well done dramatic moment, and no one finds it stupid, but at the climax, when wash is 'impaled, out of fucking nowhere!' it seems like a needless grab for angst, when there was already plenty of tension. this is why that scene is parodied (i think CAD did one, among others), while books death was accepted.
Rainbow
topic
07:11:12 PM May 30th 2011
When it mentions Madoka under the anime examples, there's something that says (paraphrased) Sailor Moon and Madoka are basically the same except Sailor Moon "glosses over" tragedy. That sounds like this trope in action, implying that Sailor Moon is less "real" than Madoka when both are equally fictional and that Madoka is somehow the superior version because it doesn't gloss over tragedy. Sailor Moon is a fairly different story with different premises and characters from Madoka and I don't think it could be called "the same but with the tragedy glossed over." Certainly Luna and Artemis are very different from Kyuubey. It is true that Sailor Moon has some Angst? What Angst? in it, but that statement bothered me because it sounded like it was implying that, well, True Art Is Angsty.
24.45.239.231
topic
07:21:33 PM May 4th 2010
I think this page could be called "Books not to read" (Shows/movies not to watch, music not to listen to, etc.)
Catalogue
11:56:34 AM May 5th 2010
And why is this?
githyan
03:11:27 PM Sep 20th 2011
because imo, fiction and media are supposed to be an escape from real life. what kind of person gets home from their job/school/etc and says "you know, life isnt shitty enough, im going to go read a book about a bunch of people who are all assholes fucking up in a fucked up world, so i can feel shittier." to me, that seems to be the sentiment behind all these angsty books. i feel that media is supposed to be an escape. i guess part of my problem is that my angst tlerance is very low; i am incapable of comming to connect with and like characters in a story that i know will have a shitty ending. i dont watch horror movies for the same reason; why connect with these characters when a) they are all assholes and b) they are almost all going to die. note: am not OP, just putting out what i think
TCD
03:46:59 AM Sep 30th 2011
Well that's BS. Art is about making us feel, not escapism. Plus it's really nice to experience the whole emotion of angst and what not to know that sometimes we're not alone. On the other hand, I think that Angst only works when our protaginst is inherently good and the world around them is crap. That's one of the reasons the dark age sucked, people liked Watchmen and TDKR because even though the world was bleak, we still loved them because the characters honestly tried to make the world a better place. Later when they were going around killing and swearing at each other and not really doing a lot, it sucked, because we need some people to try and improve the world not assholes. A good example is the second Dark Knight film, we have Batman who is still good and will never break his morals yet the world around him goes to hell and audiences loved it. If we take 200 days of Sodom the book, then pretty much nobody will say "well I really enjoyed reading it" but will still analyse it as it is pretty good in creating a complete destruction of values, but it isn't really that well known amongst the general populace. Thus Bleak world + Good Hero = Good Work. Bleak World + Asshole = Shit.
CardiacLiberty
03:03:34 AM Dec 11th 2013
Escapism only works well if it means something to you, the audience. Maybe optimistic stories work well for you because you still have some semblance of hope in your heart, you still have some faith in humanity, making you connect with such stories. I don't know, I'm presuming, but you're judging cynical people anyway so what the heck.

The reason why any instalment from The Dark Knight trilogy works better than a single Superman movie, for myself, is because it represents the kind of fantasy I want to escape to, a fantasy where people aren't such left-wing judges who think that hope and optimism are the ultimate way to go, because people like you have shown me that many people in fact hate cynicism and hateful stories. That's escapism FOR ME. Art is subjective to each person's views. So who the hell are you to judge what kind of escapism one should have, giving it rules and such?
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