Main Mr Vice Guy Discussion

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NotOnAnyFlatbread
Topic
12:45:14 PM Feb 26th 2016
edited by NotOnAnyFlatbread
These examples need more context before being re-added to the main page. Specifically, they need to demonstrate both aspects of the trope: both the character's vice(s) and how the character qualifies as "ultimately heroic or good" in spite of these flaws.

Fan works:
  • Ensei in The Tainted Grimoire, with Greed as his flaw. Same with Adelle.
  • Greed is a big one for Dawn in All Your Base Are Belong To Her; she sees nothing wrong with taking anything that isn't nailed down, if it's shiny, fashionable, or valuable. Likewise, she's never met a mirror she didn't like, being enormously vain. Seems to consider her hotness a superpower right alongside her Teleportation and Unlocking abilities.
  • Mega Man Reawakened:
    • Robert's biggest issues are anger and pride at first—traits he shares with Bass and Break Man.
    • Dr. Light also has pride issues, a trait he shares with Wily.

Literature:
  • Lana from the Gone series picks up smoking and drinking after the events in Hunger.
  • Eliot of The Magicians chain-smokes Merits and drinks too much wine. He eventually goes off the deep-end and becomes The Alcoholic, but he gets better.
  • Silk from The Belgariad, moreso in The Malloreon sequels where he is the world's wealthiest merchant. But as he confides to Garion, he's not overly interested in material wealth as much as the intellectual challenge of entrepreneurship.
    SILK: The money's just a way of keeping score. It's the game that's important.
NotOnAnyFlatbread
Topic
08:44:43 AM Feb 15th 2016
edited by NotOnAnyFlatbread
These examples doesn't seem to fit the trope as written:

This example is very heavy on the vices and destructive nature of the character, with no description of her alleged "good" qualities other than a single mention of unspecified "heroics". If anyone familiar with the character thinks it should be re-added, please rewrite it to show how she's ultimately heroic and/or good and use proper indentation.
  • Lina Inverse of Slayers invariably shakes down those she saves with her heroics, and even tries to cheat allies out of their property.
    • She's a glutton and tends to leave a wake of destruction in her path, which includes blowing up the bad guy as often as she can manage.
      • Her penchant for destruction eventually gets her wanted by the law, charged with simply: "Being Lina Inverse". Her friends, acting as her lawyers, are hard-pressed to think of any effective defense for such a heinous crime.
    • In fact, even before this happens, Lina can't go anywhere without hearing about rumors and stories told about her that make her out to be some kind of horrible monster. This is a state of affairs that's been going on since before the actual animated series, as proven by the Slayers Specials (the six OAVs and the five movies). The sixth OAV, Mirror, Mirror, actually has a sequence highlighting Lina's status as a Miss Vice Girl when the Big Bad looks at the simpering, docile, sweet-natured shadow-clone and asks in horror just what sort of person Lina Inverse herself is.

This example sounds like Well-Intentioned Extremist rather than Mr. Vice Guy (plus violating Examples Are Not Arguable):
  • Even more arguably would be Atrocitus, whose connection to wrath is easily greater than Hulk on his most angry day. While he technically starts off as an antagonist, and is not particularly inclined to go out of his way to help little old ladies cross the street, he sees his motives and actions as being genuinely for the greater good.
NotOnAnyFlatbread
01:51:39 PM Feb 26th 2016
Another questionable example removed from main page:
  • Played with in the novel The Natural (the movie has a very different ending). Roy can arguably represent EVERY vice with Lust, Pride, and Gluttony being the most obvious; he lusts over three women in the book and really only cares about their looks, his only goal in baseball is to be the greatest that ever was, and in a few points in the novel, he eats nonstop, including grabbing 6 cheeseburgers as a midnight snack after a humongous meal only an hour or two before. the reason it's played with is that Roy, despite being the protagonist, isn't exactly heroic and ends up crashing and burning at the end, disgracing himself and his whole team.

The character is explicitly not heroic, and nothing about the description indicates that he's good. Simply being the protagonist isn't enough.
184.1.223.7
Topic
11:56:24 AM Sep 14th 2010
Where do you draw the line between Mr Vice Guy and a Byronic Hero?
SomeGuy
02:43:41 PM Sep 14th 2010
A Byronic Hero is far more consumed by his flaws and lacks any redeeming qualities. Sort of the dramatic version of Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist. Edited the description to make that more clear.
jate
10:23:09 AM Sep 15th 2010
So if the character in question likes to imply about himself that even the guys want him but this view isn't universally held by in universe people then it's Mr Vice Guy, Jerkass or Unsympathethic Comedy Protaganist?

If people even in real life imply about a character that even the guys want him then is he a Byronic Hero?
ading
07:23:40 AM Mar 11th 2011
I don't know what you're talking about, jate
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.MrViceGuy