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Arivne
topic
02:38:39 AM Jan 21st 2014
edited by 72.197.237.11
Deleted the following Natter that violated Example Indentation from the Aliens examples.

  • Justified in that Ripley was brought along because of her previous experience with the xenomorph. Hicks (and by extension the other surviving Marines) are listening to her because knows what she's doing, even if she has no military rank.
agnosticnixie
topic
05:47:54 AM Aug 2nd 2013
edited by 216.99.32.45
Calling the spanish militias mildly military based on the fact that they had elected officers seems small minded. Especially considering other vastly more successful forces did it, including the Union army during the american civil war and the french army during the revolution, the red army during the civil war to a lesser degree. There's quite a few other reasons to describe them as such, although even then as mentioned in the WW2/Vietnam section, only the most absurd of martinets expects frontline forces to exhibit inspection passing discipline.

Also the idea that they voted on every last thing is nonsense of the first order. Not even the anarchist forces did that when on the battlefield.

>Orders from the rear such as an advance were followed only after each unit voted. People would not follow an order they did not understand, even in battle. It seems that only idealism kept them in line at all.

Thus this line goes.
jkbeta
topic
11:17:45 AM Oct 10th 2012
Removed the Stand Alone Complex example, since it is at most an aversion. The old text, for posterity:

Subverted in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Section Nine are True Companions, and will joke around sometimes, but there is a definite pecking order. The Major can and will pull rank whenever she feels her natural leadership abilities aren't enough, and the other members will always comply, though sometimes grudgingly. And nobody argues with Aramaki, ever, even if his only "real" authority is having created Section 9. On the rare occasion this trope is played straight, it's justified in that Section Nine is a small black ops team and gets a lot more leeway than the regular military.
DonaldthePotholer
topic
06:17:00 AM Aug 24th 2012
edited by DonaldthePotholer
Removed the Top Gun example:

In Top Gun, Maverick commits cashier-worthy violations over and over and ends up getting sent to the eponymous school for it. And not just things that are strictly military rules, but rules that are there for the safety of everyone, such as not buzzing the tower. These actions would get him grounded and transferred somewhere that's not as nice as an elite school.

As I said previously in the archived discussion, Maverick almost was Reassigned to Antarctica. He lost his qualifications for section leader three times and had been grounded twice by his CO. The only reason why Maverick was sent to Top Gun was because the CO's former pick had just quit, and Maverick was the only other guy eligible:
Cmdr. "Stinger" Jordan: You guys were number two, Cougar was number one. Cougar lost it-turned in his wings. You guys are number one. But you remember one thing: if you screw up, just this much [only a half-centimeter between his fingers], you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong!
Basically, there's a reason why his callsign is Maverick
MikeRosoft
topic
11:17:16 PM Feb 18th 2012
Removed: This turned not to be the case; Force is not an actual military conflict.
MaDeR
topic
02:08:10 PM Mar 29th 2011
Too specific example, this is why I add it here, not on main page: Libyan rebels are VERY mildly military. Result? They cannot do anything without less than thorought coalition bombing of anything that stand in their way. And they run away when enemy do as little as farting in general direction of rebels.
FalseProphet
topic
08:56:21 AM Feb 14th 2011
Re: the new Battlestar Galactica. Is there a real-world military that has or had a ritual permitting enlisted men to beat the crap out staff officers in front of the troops, or was that solely creative license?
Azzizzi
11:51:07 AM Feb 14th 2011
I think in the episode the way it happened, this would be permitted. Boxing smokers were common when I was in the Marine Corps. They were usually planned events, not like in the episode with rules that allow you to walk in the ring to challenge someone you don't like.

I remember being deployed to the field in a joint exercise with the French military. My unit sent another guy and me to a field site where we joined a few dozen other Marines from various units. The guy in charge of the small detachment was a gunnery sergeant. On the first day, he expressed the "five-minute rule," and stated that if someone had a problem with someone else, you could request five minutes alone with him. The reasoning was that you would go in a room and work it out and someone of higher rank would not be an ass for fear of being called out by someone junior. The workload was demanding and tensions got pretty high, so a few people did request their five minutes. No actual fights ever broke out, but if they did, that gunny would have been in deep doo-doo.

Now that I think about it, that same gunny had this broom stick that he had taped a small knife (like a four-inch paring knife) on the end. One day, I woke up to the sound of a guy yelling in pain trying to get away from the gunny stabbing him in the ass cheek with this knife, not very hard, but enough to cut his pants and a few times, he drew blood.

With all that said, I'm thinking you could get away with a lot, as long as it's not blatant. A boxing match that's monitored would probably be okay.
Viv123
topic
02:44:44 AM Jan 14th 2011
  • Israeli soldiers do often act like uniformed civilians off duty, but discipline is much more strict while actively serving, at least for combat units. Its just that in such a small country and with universal conscription, they get a lot of off time, usually to go home for a weekend or holiday—that is, unless intel says they need to be on alert. During these off days, they are essentially uniformed civilians (this typically does wonders for morale). Though discipline is much laxer for none combat units, and considering that your average modern army needs a hell of a lot of logistical and bureaucratic support, a lot of the IDF's undeserved reputation for lack of professionalism comes from people mistaking desk jockeys for combatants.
    • It is not that undeserved, the IDF has some of the most lax discipline standards of any western alinged army, though oddly the bootcamp is one of the most brutal.
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