Discussion Creator / DonaldTrump

I hate to say it but... it should stay on here. We trope works, not real life. Since, in the context of the work it's presented as "true" we shouldn't say otherwise... despite the fact the man is a pathological liar and almost assuredly not telling the truth.

Maybe change the wording to "Trump claimed the story was true during the third season of The Apprentice.

The problem with "we trope works, not real life" in this instance is that, in this case, the "work" is real life. This is a page about Donald Trump the man, not The Apprentice, and pointing out that it was proven false seems valid.

I say we keep it, and state both that Donald claimed it was true and that snopes labeled it false:

"[story, blah, blah, blah]...Snopes determined it to be untrue, but Donald claimed it really happened on The Apprentice"

That sounds like a workable solution.

Or we could just say "Snopes points out that its false, and Trump is a pathological liar so there is no reason to believe him". We could NOT pretend that facts and lies are both equally valid, which is the entire goddamn reason we are in this mess in the first place.

We aren't saying truth and lies are equally valid, that's not what this is about. If Donald said it on one of his media programs, it doesn't matter if it's a lie or an exaggeration or a mistake, the trope's refered to in his work. We do get to include the fact that snopes debunked it, because snopes is an independent source and we're just mentioning what they said, which is different from injecting opinion into the page like you're suggesting.

If you oppose Donald Trump and oppose his agenda, insulting him on TV Tropes is just creating a headache for the troper community while wasting time that could be spend doing something more productive to your cause in real life. Phone your congressman, donate to one of the groups lobbying against him, join protest marches, go to a town meeting, run for office, or any number of things that affect politics in real life. Calling Trump a liar on TV Tropes, even if for the sake of argument if were true, is not going to solve anybody's problems.

That is something for the "Locked pages" thread in the forums.

I feel like if the page were unlocked, people would be posting a lot of bias on it. Maybe after the election.

Shouldn't this page be updated already? He is president elect now after all.

Whats the proper trope for him mocking a reporter woth a degenerative muscle disease, then lying about it? Or all the other constant lies he tells?

Or are we refusing to put down concrete, immuntable facts cause some people dont like them?

We don't put that down because we're not here to trope real life. We're here to trope fiction.

The value of this page isn't to document every awful thing he says or idiotic statement. There's countless sites for that.

This page should be to document Trump's effects on works, both in terms of works made by him and once he becomes president, presumably works depicting him. But at no point should we be troping him like he's a fictional character.

Then remove the propaganda bit about him paying a couples mortgage. Even outside of it being laughably false and you're basically relying on him saying he's great as proof that it happened, its supposedly "real life"

See discussion above.

You mean the discussion from two months ago wherein you still haven't changed it to point out that Snopes points out it is a lie? And still places Trumps lies as equally valid as the truth?

Yes, I mean participate in the discussion if you want to actually contribute instead of just being needlessly confrontational and ignorant of wiki practices and begin an identical discussion in a second place. Your call, of course.

The page will be updated when the essential ritual is completed. The meeting of the Electoral College on Dec. 19. The inaugration in January 22nd.

When that happens, Trump's page will become Useful Notes and subject to new policy.

And listing Hillary as Arch-Enemy is a rule that wouldn't work since we don't trope real life people. "Make America Great Again" is older than Donald Trump...Reagan first used it, then Bill Clinton. And there is a Politics page for that already.

As of now, I think we should keep the facts to Trump's associations with any kind of entertainment, since this is a site about tropes in fiction.

... thank you for demonstrating why it's not unlocked yet.

... also, why are you addressing a rapper-turned-actor?

I am quite sure this will be unlocked upon either the moment Donald Trump is not controversial any more or some time after his death, whichever happens first...

I mean, George W Bush is still locked and he is much less controversial as of today than Donald Trump

I am strongly opposed to President-Elect Trump in my capacity as a private citizen, and if I had to guess I'd say that more tropers than not have an unfavorable opinion of his election. That is precisely why we should keep this page locked. This guy is pretty much Flame Bait personified, and even the more objective among us would struggle to maintain the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement. Besides, other politician pages I've glanced at such as Obama and Hillary are still locked, indicating that this is a pretty common anti-vandalism measure when dealing with such figures.

OK, maybe I was being a bit facetious with the impeachment comment (though I'm giving 50/50 odds he doesn't make it to the midterms)

There should be some method of editing this page however. Any way edicts can be submitted for moderation?

And while other politician's pages are still locked, they do tend to already have a lot more information in them. HRC's page is several times longer and she never even had her own reality show.

What you do with a locked page is submit content in the forum thread for locked pages, iirc. We can add content to locked pages, it just goes through the mods and therefore takes a long time to get approved. It seems the idea that "we don't trope real life" is unevenly enforced or judged subjectively with regard to Creator pages, which may account for the Obama and Hillary pages being longer.

Excuse me, 45th.

A change was requested on the forums, the mods will get to it eventually.

President-elect would be a better term than soon-to-be.

Indeed, "President elect" is the technical term. Even though more people voted for Hillary Clinton than for him.

The November 8 popular vote doesn't determine which candidate will get elected. That decision is entirely in the hands of the electoral college. Voting for electors, Congress, and local government is where the people have power.

Well I did not want to start a political discussion, but if we want to be all super-technical about that, we have to say that he does not become "President elect" until the electoral college actually elects him. Because the people did not.

Ok, why it's taking so long for the main page to be updated? Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement for the 11th billionth time?

It's indeed frustrating, but the Mods will get there when they get there.

Well technically speaking he is butkus right now. The Electoral College has not yet convened and while it has not done so in all presidential elections thus far, it could decide to vote for someone else. And calling someone "elected" to anything when their opponent actually got more votes and the procedure by which the office is still handed to them is not yet completed is technically wrong on to counts.

Of course for all intents and purposes he is the next president, but he has not yet any claim to it that would rest on anything but "how things usually go"

Because his campaign isn't a work. And we trope works, not real life.

We could Useful Notes the 2016 election at the end of all this.

Also it can be argued that the person running for President is a character (just like the person doing the Colbert Report was) and something like that would be tropeable...

But I agree, better to wait until this is over. Whenever it may be.

Unless Trump reveals at the end that he was just kidding and didn't actually mean anything he said, then no, neither he nor his campaign can be troped because they are not works of fiction.

That said, a Useful Notes for the 2016 election would be fine.

Just so long as youre adding tropes for thongs occurring in works about the election, not the election.

^ ... incidentally, I would be anything that if he loses that's basically the attitude that he'll have.

I've been really happy that we really made Trump's page neutral, and this is coming from someone who isn't a fan of him. But I dunno, feels like it should be noted that he's the 2016 Republican nominee. Shrug. Not losing any sleep on it, just wondering why it hasn't been added.

"Because his campaign isn't a work. And we trope works, not real life." Steven Hawking's page has an "associated tropes" index.

Thank you for swiftly demonstrating exactly why a YMMV page would be a terrible idea.

Yes, we don't insult real people here.

Yeah, no insulting him, but I could see a YMMV page for Memetic Mutation and Never Live it Down, for the things he says during his campaign.

JWAHAG isnt even a ymmv trope, and has No Real Life Examples Please on it.

I'm sure you know this by now, but we don't.