Discussion Characters / Warhammer40000AstartesChapters

I am not sure. The normal marines are still available and part of the background so it wouldn't count as an update, plus the fact that Primaris Marines have their own page may make it a bit confusing for non-fans (this isn't a 40K wiki after all).

I'd update them to their current models and hide the original models in notes in captions, as is done on multiple character pages.

That's the thing though, they are both the current models. I would suggest putting a model on each side of the Chapter symbol but that would probably make them too large.

Wait...I just realized which page we were talking about; I was thinking about the characters that have Primaris upgrades. Maybe put a regular Astartes and a Primaris side by side beneath the chapter symbol?

I was thinking the primaris intercessors sporting their chapter-specific upgrades that came alongside the supplements, though perhaps also with generic characters (like L Ts)

^^ Yeah, that is what I was thinking.

^ Out of interest, why are you wanting to get rid of the normal Astartes anyway. The reason the Chaos ones were changed is that the old models are no longer available, regular Marines are still on sale however and a still a valid choice on the tabletop.

Well, for better or worse, the Primaris marines are the future of the faction. So I think, personally, that they are more representative of the chapters than the regular tac-marines.

That said, I'm not against putting both marines by the symbol. Was just throwing it out there.

^I've nothing against the Primaris resonantly (beyond an unfortunate lack of Bling of War) and actually think having they should have been integrated into the existing pages rather than getting their own page. As I said, I do agree that a Classic-Symbol-Primaris pic would be the best option if it can be made small enough to be unobtrusive (I would also like the more fancy versions of symbols where they are available - I like fancy so sue me - rather than the shoulder pad symbols but that is a different issue)

I don’t necessarily mind moving away from the pauldrons; at the time, those were the most consistent source of good-looking Chapter icons. If there’s enough high-quality Chapter icons out there to replace all, or at least most, of the pauldrons, then that’s fine. That said, I’d rather do this in an Image Pickin’ thread than the 40K thread.

Oh, that's my bad. Not sure entirely how to navigate the site and all that. If you make an Image Pickin' thread, please link it and I'd be happy to move this conversation there.

Agreed; they're not cited on that trope page as an example, so I'd cut it if a way to make it work can't be found.

Thinking about it, I feel that the intent of the example is covered by The Strategist so I think it is safe to delete

Honestly, I think it's a bit of a stretch...there seems to be a trope there but I don't think that's it.

Yeah, I think there is a trope here (which is why I hid it rather than deleted it) but not this one. Pretty much the same example had been put up previously as Back from the Dead but that was even move inappropriate.

Order Reborn, perhaps?

That seems like it could work.

Agreed, that seems a more fitting trope.

How's this for a rewrite:

• Order Reborn: The Imperial Fists suffered terrible casualties during The War of the Beast, finally being driven to extinction during the second invasion of Ullanor. In an attempt to prevent knowledge of this event from devastating the morale of the war ravaged Imperium, Chapter Master Maximus Thane of the Fists Exemplar convinced the Imperial Fists’ Successors to secretly rebuild their parent Chapter with members of their own brotherhoods.

Sounds good to me.

Cool. I've added it to the list.

I'm uncomfortable with Chronus only having one trope as well, but since he's considered important enough to have a codex entry and rules then I'm okay with keeping him on the page.

As for the spoilers, I can take or leave them.

Thankfully, I have managed to find a couple more tropes for Chronus to bring him up to three now.

As for spoilers, I will have a think and try something when I get to them.

I'd been wondering about a pic myself...not really sure on how to go about doing it, and that pic isn't immediately leaping out at me.

That pic was just the first thing I came across there is also this (that I think is fan art)◊, or this◊ but I don't know how it would look at wiki size.

I like that first one.

That is my favourite of the ones I have suggested but I think it focuses on the Dark & Blood Angel successors a bit too much.

Not that I'm aware of off the top of my head.

Okay.

While it is probably okay not to capitalize codex unless it is referring to a specific one, I do think that Edition should be when paired with the number, and possibly italicised as well as it is referring to a specific one.

I'm good with that - does it have a source?

Cool, I'll change it then.

Unfortunately the quote is unattributed, it is boxed out on the Vanguard Veteran page in the Codex.

I'd be fine with that...I was looking at the page earlier and thinking that listing them as First Founding Chapters in their descriptions was kinda redundant.

Cool. I will leave it a couple of days to see if anyone else has anything to say on the subject (I also have a Blood Bowl event at Warhammer World this Weekend) then make the change on Sunday.

One of the reasons I suggested the change is that I also have an idea about adding a 21st (Cursed) Founding section for the Black Dragons, Minotaurs, Lamenters, Legion of the Damned/Fire Hawks at some point in the future but I will have to see if there are enough tropes for each Chapter to make it worthwhile.

Personally I would say to give them their own folder on a page if they have more than three tropes unique to the Chapter/Special Character but I will admit that the size issue is a worry. On the other hand a while ago (a couple of years now I think) on the forum, someone said we shouldn't include the Forge World Characters due to the size issue and as I have said before, if we trope every prominent character or organisation in the franchise then we would have more 40K pages than every other Tabletop Game Character page combined.

I'd say make a Sandbox of the page with those added in their own folder and see what the character count comes to, and then we can work from there. Sebastian's point about going too far with the troping is very valid, so we need to be judicious about what gets added to the page from here on out.

We can probably go ahead and rule out the Astral Claws and their special characters, seeing as they became the Red Corsairs. At the very least, I think we should do something with the Salamanders characters.

A folder for the Chapters involved in the Badab War (except the Astral Claws of course) could be worthwhile if there are enough tropes to justify it, possible having one entry for all the Loyalist Chapters and another entry for the Separatist Chapters until there are enough tropes for individual Chapter entries. Remember this site isn't a 40K Wiki, the site is about tropes and they are what should decide who has entries (there are a number of characters from previous editions that I could add but don't because I can't think of enough tropes to justify adding them).

What are the Salamander characters you are talking about in the second part of your post? The only Salamanders characters I can see on the Forge World site are Vulkan (who is on the Imperial Founders and Horus Heresy character pages) and the Dreadnought Bray'arth Ashmantle.

Captain Pellas Mir'san (of the second company), Bray'arth Ashmantle (the aforementioned Dreadnought) and Master Harath Seth (Master Apothecary) all have rules in Forge World's downloads section. Not sure if they have models, not that no model existing has stopped us before.

EDIT: Here are the rules I'm referring to: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Badab_Characters_V2.pdf http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf

Cool (although those are from 6th Edition not the current 7th Edition) but are there enough tropes for them to justify an entry?