If I might make a suggestion: With the new format for Series 10, I think the best thing to do would be to put all the robots that make it into the 10-way Wild Card Melee at the start of the Grand Final episode (the 2nd and 3rd place robots of each heat) NOT onto the Grand Finalists page (because that would just be too much, putting 15 robots in one folder except the ones that are already in another one e.g Apollo) but instead onto the Semifinalists page with a short explanation. We have a lot of unused space there since we haven't used that since the reboot started. It means we don't add any heat finalists for Series 10, but I think we can live with that.
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For lack of a response, I'm just going to bloody do it. We have too many entrants for the melee to be able to just ignore it now.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
If there's a consensus that we should generally adhere to the "entered at least 3 wars" rule for the Heat Finalists page I won't contest it, but I just thought I'd see how many heat finalists overall currently don't have an entry (all the ones in bold fulfil the "entered at least 3 wars" criteria, and ones in italics don't but have been proposed for inclusion in the below discussion):
- Series 1: Wedgehog, Demolisher, REALI-T, Skarab (4 / 6)
- Series 2: Demolition Demon, Inquisitor, Technophobic, Disruptor, Loco, All Torque, Havoc (7 / 12)
- Series 3: Darke Destroyer, Invertebrat, Panzer (3 / 16)
- Series 4: Eric, Little Fly (2 / 16)
- Series 5: Reactor, Rick (2 / 12)
- Series 6: Shredder, Barber-ous (2 / 12)
- Series 7: Big Nipper, Lightning, Ceros, Ripper (4 / 16)
Looking at that list, I think we can skip most of them except the bolded ones, Big Nipper and Ripper. Big Nipper are the 4th robot to claim 2 UK championships, putting them in the company with Chaos 2, Terrorhurtz and Iron-Awe. Ripper only appeared once, but are actually a very important bot, since it was the second (and more successful) qualifying entry by Team Roaming Robots, who as you probably know are the guys who almost single-handedly kept robot combat alive in the UK after the show was cancelled, and the robot has been a big player on the live scene ever since. Plus it was the Series 7 Annihilator runner-up behind Kan-Opener.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Agreed with Big Nipper and Ripper. Their success after the end of the show (and potentially in the 2016 series) should allow them an entry on the page. On a similar vein, should we add notable Robot Wars Live competitors to the "Miscellaneous Robots" page? Specifically, we could just add champions and other promising competitors, like Eruption, Turbulence and Gabriel.
Also, I quite like the oddity that is Inquisitor- the only robot to beat Razer but lose to Behemoth, although whether he warrants a spot on the page is something to be decided after rewatching its episode.
Edited by Aomic
Actually, I don't agree with adding live show-only competitors to the page because, quite simply, they didn't fight on Robot Wars. Yes, Roaming Robots acquired the 'Robot Wars' name eventually, but that's not the same as being on the show. Mentioning details from live events in the profiles of robots that started on the show and continued on the live circuit is one thing, but this page is for Robot Wars, not robot fighting in general.
Well that's my 2 cents anyway.
Re: Inquisitor, there really isn't a lot to say about it OTHER than "it beat Razer when Razer broke down and lost to Behemoth", apart from the Shout-Out to Red Dwarf. No real reason why you can't add it if you want, though, it's not like we're suffering a chronic shortage of internets.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Well I finally added Ripper (and Infernal Contraption to the 'Other recurring robots' section while I was at it). I think the only one we need to add now is Reactor/Rhino.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Now that I've added Reactor/Rhino, I believe we've added every relevant heat finalist. The only robots that need to be added now are a few more to the Other/International page (Tricerabot at least, and maybe a few more recurring faces like Sump Thing, Weld-Dor and Wheelosaurus).
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Hey, do you think we should update the pics for Sir Killalot, Shunt, Matilda and Dead Metal to the 2016 reboot models yet?
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Done, just as you said.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Should we change "2016 Series" to "Series 8"? The BBC
have made the change in their episode list so shouldn't we do the same?
We can change each folder to "Series (no.) (year)" ie "Series 4 (2000)".
Edited by Aomic
With the sport being what it is, teams have purchased new robots, formed new teams and collaborated with existing teams since the show went off the air 12 years ago, so this page could get a little muddled. Examples include a former member of Team Cold Fusion joining Team New Dantomkia, A former Air cadet making a completely new robot and several roboteers collaborating to create a new team and robot. We should come up with some guidelines for placing robots in these pages. For instance:
If a team purchases/ borrows a robot (e.g Dantomkia or Pussycat back in series 7) then we put new tropes under the original entry. If a team is formed from another team (e.g Carbide or PP 3 D) I think they should be separate entries. In Carbide's case, it was formed by two experienced roboteers (one from Team Hurtz, the other from Tiberius) so do we add Beta/ Terrorhurtz and Tiberius underneath? It could get unwieldy. In PP 3 D's case, this wasn't made under the purview of the Air Cadets, so if it gets successful next year, it should be its own entry. If a team member joins another team (e.g. Stuart Barnwell from Team Kat/ Cold Fusion joining S-Tec) then tropes should be under the robot they're fighting with.
Any other suggestions? Also, I will be adding names next to folders and links on the main character page so it's easier to search for a particular robot. '''.
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Hmm. You know, maybe it's better to put Tiberius back on the Heat Finalists page after all. I wouldn't have a problem with listing it there if it was only a former Tiberius member who'd formed Team Carbide, but the inclusion of a former Team Hurtz member suggests that should just ignore the collaboration for simplicity's sake. We certainly wouldn't add Terrorhurtz to the entry for Carbide, as Terrorhurtz FOUGHT Carbide and it already has a place on this page.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Exactly. The "Add Terrorhurtz to Carbide?" question was rhetorical, since we definitely wouldn't do that. We seem to have had the policy that if some guy goes from background member of one team to captain of another note , they are treated as separate entries, so we should continue that. Example: Dave Moulds from Team Hurtz member to Team Carbide captain/ Sam Smith from Tiberius to Carbide. No shared design similarities or team lineups from either teams.
Not an Example: Trevor Wright from Team Velocirippa to Team Outlaw. He was captain of both and his son (other member of original team) can still return.
- Robin Herrick of Team Cold Fusion. Team known for inconsistent lineup, Herrick remains as designer and captain of team in both series.
So, a new series of Robot Wars is to be broadcast for the first time since this character sheet was created. (You may have already heard this elsewhere.) I thought it'd be useful to get some consensus on a few matters:
Should we update the information as the series is broadcast? Suppose Behemoth wins its heat, do we automatically move it from the Semi-Finalists page to the Grand Finalists page and add "2016 Series Grand Finalist" to its info, or do we wait until the series is done and update everything then?
Should the win/loss numbers have the 2016 series marked separately, or would that be too unwieldy or unnecessary?
On the matter of robot pictures being updated: I'd recommend updating the pictures for the four returning House Robots, but also having the old ones still there but collapsed (like the Beast of Bodmin picture under Roadblock's entry). For contestant robots, the following pictures could be updated: Razer (maybe - it still looks much the same), Bigger Brother could have a picture of Orte collapsed, Terrorhurtz, Typhoon could have a picture of PP3D collapsed, Storm II, Behemoth, King Buxton, Thermidor 2, Dantomkia (maybe - ditto Razer), Mute could have a picture of Bonk collapsed, Tough as Nails, Supernova, Kan-Opener, Chompalot (maybe)
As far as I'm aware, the BBC still haven't made any official proclamation on what this series is called in terms of numbering, and "the 2016 series" was taken up by the wiki. I guess we leave it as that for now, and if the BBC decide to make more series they'll have to announce whether that's series 2 of the revived version, series 9 or whatever?
Oh, and we might want to start thinking of some tropes for Dara and Angela.
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OK, so:
We should definitely update as broadast. Initially I didn't think we should move robots to the Champions/Finalists page until we knew who the champion and runner up were at least, but then I realised that meant we wouldn't know where to put entries for new competitors like Carbide until the series had finished airing, and 6 more weeks is too long to wait. So I'd suggest just listing all the heat winners in a new folder at the bottom of the Champions/Finalists, listing them in heat order, with a simple note (possibly at the top of the page?) pointing out that the Champion and runner-up haven't been determined yet, then update the order to put them on top once they are. Regarding spoilers, you can't spoiler entire robot entries, so just add "(Spoilers)" to the folder name.
Win/loss numbers are interesting since the format of the new series (with the mini-league after the opening melees) is completely different- after the first heat alone, Razer only gains a single loss while Behemoth and Terrorhurtz both got 3 wins and 2 losses added to their cards. However I think it's already complicated enough that we track wins and losses separately for different robots (e.g Robot the Bruce, Chaos and Chaos II) so just add them to the existing counters anyway.
I think the pic that represents a robot should be of their most successful model. I wouldn't replace any pics of semifinalists or finalists that don't make it out of their heat (after all, the current pic for King Buxton is of their original 2nd Wars model because that was the one they made a semifinal with, even though they fought up to the 7th Wars and have come back again). It's the same reason we have Team Cold Fusion's entry listed under the 4th Wars with Pussycat, rather than the 1st Wars with Bodyhammer. Collapse a pic of Bonk under Mute, leave Orte until we know if it does better than Bigger Brother (which, let's be honest, is going to be unlikely- it'd have to win the whole thing to top BB's 5th Wars performance) and even if PP3D does win it shouldn't replace Typhoon 2's entry.
Regarding the House Robots, though- yeah, update 'em with the originals underneath.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Should we also add notable one-off 2016 competitors under the "Other Robots" page? I know Nuts gained a lot of fans after episode 1. I'd like to point out that we would have to wait 3 years if we wanted to add competitors from the rebooted series. Perhaps we could change the folders to "Notable Original Series Competitors" and "Notable Rebooted Series Competitors".
Edited by Aomic
I'd say leave other robots from the new series until it's over. For now just add the finalists (and update returnees), we can do the rest later.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Heya folks. With filming for the series halfway completed, we should adopt a spoiler policy. I think we shouldn't add any tropes to competitors from the 2016 UNLESS the BBC, behind-the-scenes personnel (specifically Angela or Dara), or roboteers themselves announce it. Almost any other websites (mainly the RW wiki & reddit) about the series follow a similar procedure. Alternately, if the robot appeared on the Pilot episode we include that information, since the BBC has confirmed the episode will never be broadcast, since it was only to show execs what the series would look like, and one of the competitors is from Battle Bots, so its broadcast exclusivity clause is in play.
Also, that if we're also following that procedure, then I'm happy to announce that Dantomkia
◊ will be appearing (as it appeared in an official BBC 2 image).
Incidentally, I've worked out a way to tell whether or not a (significant) robot will be taking part in the reboot: go to the Robot Wars wiki and check the pages for the major competitors (really minor competitors, like ones who only fought 1 or 2 battles, get overlooked). In the listings for their series entries at the bottom under their battle record almost all the robots will say "2016 Series: Did not enter". By my calculations, if a robot doesn't specify that, then it entered the reboot, or at least applied to (and I'm pretty sure ones that haven't made it, like Gravity, are already marked as "Failed to qualify"). You can tell by looking at the page of the one confirmed robot listed above, Dantomkia. Using this method, I've already confirmed that at least the teams (if not the robots) from Barbaric Response, Behemoth, Bigger Brother, Firestorm, Raging Knightmare, Razer, Ripper, Storm 2 and Thor will be taking part and there may be more that I simply haven't noticed yet (oddly enough, Mute, and only Mute as far as I can see, is listed as "application pending" with their new robot, Bonk). Oh, and I'm pretty sure Adam Clark has something new to show us as well.
That's a good tactic, but not 100% accurate. Turns out that an audience member who went to every session (barring 1, it seems) wrote a list of the robots they saw fighting in the arena on Reddit. The list doesn't actually feature the round 1 lineup or who won, just who's in.
Huh. Well if that list is accurate then apparently the wiki is lying since Thermidor 2 is listed as "Did not enter" and Terrorhurtz has "Pilot episode only with Beta". Damn. Well, they said that's not a complete list on entrants (35 out of 40) so I guess there's still a chance we might see Bigger Brother and Firestorm, although some of the teams I mentioned may have been entering with the new robots. God damn it, the anticipation is killing me!
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
I really hope you're right regarding those two latter bots. Also, the wiki has the same policy as Reddit and us; only the pilot episode is fair game for addition to the respective pages (since it's not going to be broadcast, best chance scenario is a You Tube or DVD release). I also added the Pilot episode only with Beta because of that policy, and with Thermidor 2, I assume that was added before they were confirmed to be taking part. I saw pictures of their updated robot myself.
Thermidor is definitely participating - Ian Harvey's cousin, Stuart Ashen, confirmed it on Reddit last week.
Edited by cwickham
When the reboot was first announced I actually sent an email to to what I thought was the classic team most-likely to return (apart from Team Make Robotics who simply went without saying)- Team Big Brother. Several months later I FINALLY received a reply email from them confirming that yes, they would definitely be competing (or rather at this stage, definitely competed) with their new robot "Orte". It wasn't on that Reddit spoiler list, but that list isn't complete by its own admission. So that's something.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
So are we opening up to Reboot Series entrants now?
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
So I was considering adding The Rival for Wheely Big Cheese vs Chaos 2, as it was widely agreed that The Big Cheese was unlucky to face Chaos as early as the heat final in Series 3 and they then had a rematch in the Series 5 All-Stars.
I then noticed when looking at the original seedings for Series 4 (in the scans of the original magazine that have recently been uploaded to the wiki), before Trident and Blade dropped out, that if they hadn't both dropped out then the original plan was for Wheely Big Cheese to be seeded 17th, which would have put it in Heat A with Chaos. This seems like an odd coincidence, especially since the producers also tampered with the order of the heats to try and get a decider between Chaos and Mace / Gemini. (Come to think of it, this might also be why Suicidal Tendencies and Centurion were in the 'wrong' heats, but I digress.)
Are the two fights they did have enough to warrant classing Chaos vs Cheese as The Rival, and is the seeding thing worth mentioning or just me clutching at straws?
Edited by cwickham Hide / Show Replies
Mmm. Tough call. They fought each other twice, and I'm sure that if there was anyone in the 4th Wars who really wanted to put one over Team Chaos it was the very competitive Roger Plant (the very construction of Wheely Big Cheese could be interpreted as a Take That! "you think YOU have the biggest flipper, huh?" to Chaos 2) but it's hard to say if the rivalry every got enough build-up. I'd say you can put it in as long as you mention that it's a mild example.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Just thought I'd compile a list of robots that could conceivably be notable enough to be added to see if we agree they should be put on here and/or for future reference (feel free to suggest any more you think could qualify). I've sorted them by whether they'd be classified under 'heat finalists' and 'other'. I'll edit this remark as they're added.
- Barber-ous (S6 heat finalist, participants in S5, S7 & Extreme II)
- Big Nipper (S7 heat finalist, notable success after the series ended)
- Reactor (S5 heat finalist & participant in S4 and S6)
- Shredder (S6 heat finalist & participant in S5 and S7)
- Arnold A. Terminegger (Extreme 1 Annihilator runner-up & the Struts series probably being the most notable UK walkers after Anarchy)
- Piece de Resistance/Death Warmed Up/Immortalis/Metalis (participants from S2-S7)
- Sump Thing (S3-S6 & Extreme participant)
- Vercingetorix/Comengetorix (S2-S4, S6 & Extreme participant)
- Bamm Bamm (Dutch grand finalist)
- Scraptosaur (Dutch semi-finalist)
- Botwork (Dutch competitor)
I'd like to work on Prizephita & Aggrobot.
Also, even though it appeared in one war and lost failed to qualify for another, I'd also like to work on Terrorpin. That robot just breathes tropes.
Was planning on doing Aggrobot at some stage.
I'd also recommend Hydra (competed in Series 5-7 and Extreme II, heat finalist in 6, runner-up in the Extreme II Tag Team Terror competition with Barbaric Response). Notable as probably the most successful of the Mortis knock-offs (did better than Vercingetorix/Comengetorix, which it actually beat in Series 6).
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
And I just added Hydra to the page.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
We should probably add more foreign competitors to the Other page- at least some of the runners-up from the Dutch series. Lizzard and Philipper at least need a mention, and possibly Bamm Bamm, Scraptosaur and Botwork. Plus it's the only series I never saw, but someone could add some more of the notable robots from the US series (they get several mentions in the main article but the only one with an entry is Panzer Mk, the double champion).
Had a thought- you think Ultor is notable enough to deserve a place? OK, so they only appeared once, but they WERE the key robot behind one of the most memorable (and heartwarming) incidents in Series 3, and they're one of the few robots that is technically undefeated. We could consider them a special case.
We could also possibly mention Big Nipper as well. OK, it doesn't meet the criteria (only entered Series 5 and 7 and only made a heat final in 7) but it is notable as being only the 4th robot (after Chaos 2, Killerhurtz and Iron-Awe) to ever hold the UK championship title twice, which is a hell of an entry for Took a Level in Badass.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
I was thinking about adding Ultor as well given their status as technical heat winners. I'll update the first comment with these now.
If anyone does Reactor, don't forget that they also entered Series 7 with Rhino, so they actually qualify for the "entered 3 wars and made at least 1 heat final" rule. This is significant because they didn't actually compete in Series 6- they applied, but failed to qualify after being beaten by Raging Reality.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Any objections to me adding Cerberus? I know it only entered two main wars but it was also in both Extremes and the First World Championship, and there's probably more tropes for it than some of the semi-finalists currently have.
Just assume that there's no objections to anything on the list.
EDIT: I added Lizzard and Philipper. This conversation is getting awfully long, isn't it?
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
I added Ultor. You also need to scratch Lizzard and Philipper from the list as well.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
This page is starting to get so unweldy from the Loads And Loads Of Characters that even my high-end PC is having trouble loading the editing page, and there is the potential for over 100 (interesting and successful) robots alone residing on this one page. I'm starting to think that we should organize this page differently; by splitting it into its own separate pages (i.e: "House Robots", "Grand finalists", "Semi-Finalists", "Heat Finalists", "Other Robots" and "Personnel").
Each page is then organised by series (1-7, 2016- when broadcast) and in the case of the GF page, organised in order of how that robot finished that series with the winner at the top of each folder. Each robot is placed in the folder where they first appeared in their highest position (i.e Bigger Brother made the Grand Final in series 5 despite competing the previous 2 years, so it would go under the "Grand Finalists" page, "Series 5" folder, and under Razer, who won that series).
The "Other Robots" and "Personnel" page instead has folders for "Notable UK Competitors/ Personnel" and "International Competitors/ Personnel".
So what do you think? It can help organise this page better, and make it easier to find a competitor. Naturally, most possible future entrants on this page would have to adhere to the "Entered 3 Wars + Made a heat final" (as Arcane Azmadi originally came up with) or "Reach 1 semi final" to be considered for the page, so we aren't pressured into adding every generally unsuccessful team like the "Torque" team in.
Edited by Aomic Hide / Show Replies
I've sent Arcane Azmadi a message, since he's basically the third most prominent editor of the characters page right now. We'll see what happens if he gets back to me.
Don't let me stand in your way. I was thinking it needed a major reshuffle anyway, and it is getting a bit big. Sounds good.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Hmm, I'm not entirely sure about the subdivision of the 'Other Notable Robots' folder into 'Heat Finalists', 'Side Competition Winners' and 'International Robots'. For one thing, just reaching a heat final isn't really notable enough to make this page (I for one don't intend to make entries for robots like Demolition Demon, which lost its 2nd Wars heat final to Napalm and never competed in the main competition again), plus a lot of Heat Finalists won side competitions (meaning the Side Competition Winners folder is exclusively reserved for the 3 robots who won one -Spikasaurus, Kan-Opener and Chompalot- and no others, even though winning a side competition is arguably more prestigious than just making a heat final). I think it was better the way it was before, to be honest, with 4 categories: Grand Champions, Grand Finalists, Seminfinalists and Other.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised. Hide / Show Replies
My thinking is that just having an "other" category after the semi-finalists would simply be massively unwieldy, with too many disparate entries lumped together, and there should be *some* attempt to split it up beyond that. I also wasn't planning to list every heat finalist in the history of the show.
I would suggest merging "side competition winners" into "other" - there are enough robots under "international robots" to justify it being its own folder.
Edited by cwickham
Hmm. While I think the 'Others Notable Robots' folder we had before was fine, you're right that it becomes too unwieldy as we continue to add notable robots to it.
The problem with segregating Heat Finalists from the other categories is evaluating which is more notable between being a Heat Finalist or winning a side tournament. Tiberius, for example, made a single Heat Final, but also won the University Challenge, which is arguably the more notable accomplishment.
With regards to which Heat Finalists get added, I'd suggest only robots (or at least teams) that entered at least 3 wars as well as making a Heat Final. I'm planning on adding Fluffy next.
Additionally, with regard to the order we put them in, I'd suggest we use the order they first appeared on the UK show, both series and heat. I think that was the idea for the higher categories, although I think it broke down somewhere in the semifinalists folder.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Could we perhaps add a "notable one-time robots folder" as well? I know some people may not be too keen on it, but it could encompass One-Hit Wonder competitors that went well in Extreme, as well as other competitors that left a big impression on the audience/ Julia/Phillipa despite not going well like Terrorpin (I can think of half-a-dozen tropes for that guy alone).
Why does The Predator have an entry in the 'Notable Robots' section? It only appeared in a single battle, where Hypno-Disc destroyed it, and it wasn't really an attempt to copy Killalot (beyond a mildly similar body and head shape). It was barely a footnote in Robot Wars history.
EDIT: I removed it. It was a totally irrelevant robot that existed to roll into the arena and be destroyed by Hypno-Disc in the melee, nothing more. There are literally dozens of robots that would deserve a place on this page before it does (every single heat finalist, for one thing). At least Velocirippa is notable for being a consistant loser.
Edited by ArcaneAzmadi Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Something of an Alternative Character Interpretation theory I thought of. Could Mr. Psycho be Oliver & Company's Sykes reincarnated into a robot made from the wreckage of his car and whatever was left of him and Growler, his two dogs as a single robot with their brains powering different parts?
Edited by Tr0p6564rch6r Call me "Pursuer of the Obscure". Also, funny quote: "A little eager on that buzzer, aren't we?"